Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Re: Dimmers & LED indicators (Eric M. Jones)
2. 06:35 AM - Need a switch (Jim and Lucy)
3. 06:42 AM - Re: Need a switch (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 06:46 AM - Help - low voltage - update (Mike & Lee Anne Wiebe)
5. 06:51 AM - Alternator selection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:54 AM - Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:58 AM - Contactors, Relays and stuff (Speedy11@aol.com)
8. 07:25 AM - Re: Contactors, Relays and stuff (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:27 AM - Re: Need a switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:29 AM - Re: Need a switch (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 08:11 AM - Re: Need a switch (Mickey Coggins)
12. 09:55 AM - Re: Need a switch (Jim and Lucy)
13. 10:03 AM - ICOM PTT ()
14. 10:37 AM - Re: Need a switch (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 11:12 AM - Re: lockwashers on Odyssey battery terminals? (Leo Corbalis)
16. 11:44 AM - Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio (Cameron Kurth)
17. 12:07 PM - Re: ICOM PTT (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
18. 12:31 PM - Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 12:59 PM - Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
20. 01:12 PM - Re: Need a switch (Glaeser, Dennis A)
21. 02:02 PM - Re: Need a switch (Carlos Trigo)
22. 02:37 PM - Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio (Cameron Kurth)
23. 03:41 PM - Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio (Joe Dubner)
24. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Need a switch (Jim and Lucy)
25. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Need a switch (Jim and Lucy)
26. 04:47 PM - Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio (Cameron Kurth)
27. 06:40 PM - Re: Help - low voltage - update (Jim Stone)
28. 06:59 PM - Z-14 ? (TimRhod@AOL.COM)
29. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Need a switch (Kevin Horton)
30. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Need a switch (BobsV35B@aol.com)
31. 08:08 PM - Re: ICOM PTT (Charlie England)
32. 09:55 PM - Re: Re: Need a switch (Jim and Lucy)
33. 11:37 PM - Warning lights fro day VFR (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Dimmers & LED indicators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
<jschroeder@perigee.net>
>Not according to the tech @ Ray Allen. Let me know if this is not so.
>John
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
>> Eric.... Does your EGPAVR also dim the indicators from RAC?
>> Carlos
Carlos,
I say definitely probably maybe.
The device has an LM914 bargraph driver in it, and there is no reason the
display cannot be dimmed---however a small modification to the MAC/RAC trim
meter may be required. I just may tinker with this.
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before.
--Mae West
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
Working on the wiring diagram for a subaru
powered Zodiac with 2 fuel pumps and 2 electronic
ignitions and 2 batteries.
I would like a switch that would allow me to run
each ignition and each fuel pump of either of my
2 battery busses. This would be 4 switches.
Also the best setup for this would be down position
of the switch is off. Middle would be left battery
and all the way up would be other battery.
I looked at quite allot of switches last night and
they all seemed to have the middle position as on.
thanks for any pointers
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Zenair ch601hds
ea81
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 7/6/2005 8:37:09 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jpollard@ciaccess.com writes:
Also the best setup for this would be down position
of the switch is off. Middle would be left battery
and all the way up would be other battery.
I looked at quite allot of switches last night and
they all seemed to have the middle position as on.
Good Morning Jim,
I am not sure just what is needed, but I have used triple throw switches to
accomplish what I think you want to do. They have no OFF position, just
three ON positions. All you have to do is not hook up the contacts that will
be
hot when the lever is in the down position.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 4
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| Subject: | Help - low voltage - update |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike & Lee Anne Wiebe" <mwiebe@sympatico.ca>
Well all, sorry for the slow response. But is seems that the need to
make money to buy avgas got in the way of consuming it for the last week
or so.
Thx for the advice on my low voltage situation (Falco, with EI
instrumentation). I tested various conditions in a 'safe flight'
environment and found the following, using the on board EI
instrumentation. I seem to have isolated it to a strobe issue, but
would appreciate any insights.
Battery voltage before start 12.2 (it had run a little, cycling gear
etc. for some other tests recently). After start, charging 25A at 13.9V
at 1100rpm. Within 30 seconds, it was 15A, same other readings.
I loaded it up to a 20 amp draw in runup (1700 rpm) in various
configurations and saw between 13.8 and 14.0 volts. The only exception
was with the strobe on and it was bouncing between 12.1 and 12.9 volts,
and between 12-14 amps draw. In flight (anywhere between 2300 and
2700 rpm), with loads of up to 20 Amps saw voltages of 14.2 virtually
rock solid. Again however, with the strobe on, voltage varied between
12.9-14.1 volts, and 11-13 amps draw.
All other readings in the cockpit (egt, cht, oil temps/pressures, etc.)
which are also all monitored through EI instrumentation were rock solid
during strobe operation. So I don't think it's strobe noise issue. The
strobes work (Whelan, big multiple flash unit). So the simple answer
appears to be to leave the strobes off. However, if any genius out
there can describe a failure mode from this data, I'd sure appreciate
the insights.
Thx
Mike
Message 5
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| Subject: | Alternator selection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:59 AM 7/6/2005 -0400, you wrote:
Hi Bob,
No offence taken, really. I am currently using a unit from a Toyota
(Nippon Denso) and it's working fine. Due to a broken bracket I've had the
opportunity to revisit the alternator issue. I've always been concerned by
the fact that the flywheel pulley is many times the diameter of the
alternator pulley making for an alternator speed approaching the sound
barrier (in my feeble mind anyway). I was reading one of the internet lists
yesterday and someone said the Suzuki unit was in addition to being very
well made, designed to handle higher RPM's. I was trying to verify this.
Feel free to rain on this parade any time, there are no problems today,
only opportunities for growth.
Thanks Bob, you're a good man,
Thank you for the kind words. The only speed issue I'm aware of
is the rational offered by B&C for balancing their ND alternators
on a spin balance machine before reassembling them. This decision
was based on an observation of poor bearing life in airplanes. This
same observation prompted Vans to offer an oversized pulley to slow
down certain alternators. Bill elected to stay fast for good output
at ramp and taxi speeds and better cooling at cruise. Hence the
smaller pulley on the balanced rotor.
I am skeptical of any assertions about "designed to handle
higher RPM" without specific knowledge of the features which
make this practical. As we all know, there's a whole lot of
blue smoke and wishful thoughts circulating through our
world that passes for good advice and the path to salvation.
If one wanted to take any stock automotive rotor and have it
balanced locally, it certainly wouldn't hurt. There MIGHT be
a secondary issue with slip ring surface speeds. The ND
machines have very small slip rings that offer the lowest
practical surface speeds under the brushes. There MAY be many
machines suited to your task. The ND machines are the only
ones I have much knowledge about and that is only peripheral
as a result of my association with B&C over the years. Their
products have DEMONSTRATED an exemplary service life.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:46 PM 7/5/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron Kurth
><cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
>
>I have a Garmin 196 that is wired into the plane's
>power buss. I get interference at a small range of
>frequencies on my com radio from the Garmin (just
>happens to be Detroit approach). If I pull the fuse
>to the Garmin so it runs off the battery the
>interference goes away. It's a similar interference
>that the Dynon D10's had when they first came out.
>
>So, what kind of filter should I use? Will the Radio
>Shack 270-055 work in this situation? I called Garmin
>about it. They said that the 196 was a handheld so it
>has to meet the same specs as a toaster. They were
>very nice about it but quite clear that it's only a
>handheld so it was not designed for airplane use and
>I'm on my own.
This is NOT going to be easy. The symptoms you describe
walk, talk and smell like radiated noise from the radio
itself. Try operating the Garmin from a separate portable
battery (does it have internal batteries?). If the noise
goes away, a filter in the wires may help. If the noise
is still there, then relocating the Garmin is the only
thing left . . . it's unlikely that you want to build
a shielded enclosure for the Garmin.
This is an example of what DO-160 does for us in
the certified world. These issues are best addressed
in the design lab as opposed to your cockpit.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Contactors, Relays and stuff |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
Ready for more dumb questions?
The way I understand it, contactors can carry heavy loads, relays can carry
medium loads, and switches can carry light loads.
If correct, what are the 12 volt load ranges for each?
Can I use a relay instead of a contactor to connect the battery to the main
bus? Would I want to do that? Are there disadvantages?
Stan Sutterfield
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Contactors, Relays and stuff |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:57 AM 7/6/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
>Ready for more dumb questions?
>
>The way I understand it, contactors can carry heavy loads, relays can carry
>medium loads, and switches can carry light loads.
>
>If correct, what are the 12 volt load ranges for each?
>
>Can I use a relay instead of a contactor to connect the battery to the main
>bus? Would I want to do that? Are there disadvantages?
>
>Stan Sutterfield
There are no hard delineations between contactors, switches, and relays.
You can buy a 'contactor' that's rated for only 20A, 'relays' rated
for 100A and 'switches' rated for any number you'd like to choose.
I'll suggest you avoid getting wrapped around the axle of
loose definitions and concentrate on what task you'd like to
perform, what the electrical and mechanical requirements are
for the task and select the electro-whizzy that does the
job for a price you find attractive irrespective of its
nomenclature.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:42 AM 7/6/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 7/6/2005 8:37:09 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>jpollard@ciaccess.com writes:
>
>Also the best setup for this would be down position
>of the switch is off. Middle would be left battery
>and all the way up would be other battery.
>
>I looked at quite allot of switches last night and
>they all seemed to have the middle position as on.
>
>
>Good Morning Jim,
>
>I am not sure just what is needed, but I have used triple throw switches to
>accomplish what I think you want to do. They have no OFF position, just
>three ON positions. All you have to do is not hook up the contacts that
>will be
>hot when the lever is in the down position.
This is easily accomplished with the 2-10 style
of switch described in Figures 11-16, 11-17, and
11-18 of the 'Connection
The 2-10 style switch is offered by B&C and others.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Pointers...sure don't do it...:)
Now of course this is just my preference but having the exact same
aircraft and set up probably gives me some airtime..
Anyway. I like to avoid any single point of failure...A changeover
switch like this is a single point of failure...if the switch burns up
down you go!
I set mine up with a single on/off switch for each fuel pump and each
ignition. Batt #1 runs the left fuel pump and Ign #1. Batt #2 runs the
right Fp and Ignition #2.
The benefit with this system is no interconnection and very very simple.
The second batt is on 3AH but should be good for at least an hour of
flying on the right tank. Depending on current draw you can size your
batteries to suit your needs.
The single alt charges both batteries, but use a diode between Bat #1
and Batt#2 to prevent backflow in the event of a major short.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
and Lucy
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need a switch
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy
--> <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
Working on the wiring diagram for a subaru powered Zodiac with 2 fuel
pumps and 2 electronic ignitions and 2 batteries.
I would like a switch that would allow me to run each ignition and each
fuel pump of either of my
2 battery busses. This would be 4 switches.
Also the best setup for this would be down position of the switch is
off. Middle would be left battery and all the way up would be other
battery.
I looked at quite allot of switches last night and they all seemed to
have the middle position as on.
thanks for any pointers
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Zenair ch601hds
ea81
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Just to say I agree with Frank's comments, and I'm doing it
the same way he is. Individual switches for each function,
simple, cheap, and reliable.
Best regards,
Mickey
>
> Anyway. I like to avoid any single point of failure...A changeover
> switch like this is a single point of failure...if the switch burns up
> down you go!
>
> I set mine up with a single on/off switch for each fuel pump and each
> ignition. Batt #1 runs the left fuel pump and Ign #1. Batt #2 runs the
> right Fp and Ignition #2.
>
> The benefit with this system is no interconnection and very very simple.
> The second batt is on 3AH but should be good for at least an hour of
> flying on the right tank. Depending on current draw you can size your
> batteries to suit your needs.
>
> The single alt charges both batteries, but use a diode between Bat #1
> and Batt#2 to prevent backflow in the event of a major short.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 11:09 AM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
>Just to say I agree with Frank's comments, and I'm doing it
>the same way he is. Individual switches for each function,
>simple, cheap, and reliable.
>
>Best regards,
>Mickey
The system I am working on does have a single switch for each
fuel pump and each electronic ignition.
The reason for the special switch is so I can choose which
battery to run them off in case one of the batteries fails.
I want to be able to run with all on or one of each on.
The diode setup of z19 has some problems if you hook more
than a single pump and ignition up to it.
Jim Pollard
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
7/6/2005
Hello Experts, I have an ICOM IC-A4 hand held radio that I carry in my
airplane as a communications back up. I also have the ICOM OPC-752 Headset
Adapter cable accessory, but I do not have the separate ICOM 3.5 mm diameter
PTT switch accessory for keying the transmitter while using the radio with
that adapter and a headset. The manual says that the transmitter keying
button on the side of the radio will not work when the headset adapter is
plugged in.
According to a diagram in the ICOM IC-A4 manual the ICOM PTT switch simply
connects the tip of the microphone plug to the shank of the microphone plug
in order to key the IC-A4 transmitter.
My question is: Can I instead use my standard push-to-talk switch, with the
larger diameter sized microphone receptacle and plug such as David Clark and
Telex sell, in line with the microphone plug from the headset to the OPC-752
Adapter to key the IC-A4 transmitter?
ICOM refuses to answer this question for me by saying they won't comment on
any one else's equipment. Thanks.
OC
PS: I suppose that there is no substitute for an actual trial test, but I
haven't been able to get two people and another radio together to run such a
test.
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Not familiar with Z19.
Yes but the problem of course is what happens if the switch itself
fails?
I thought the power schotty diode (sp) had a pretty big load
rating?....Are you running fuel injected pumps?...The Facets only run
about 1.8Amps and the ignition about another 1.5...From memeory....Whats
the nature of the problem?
You could have a double end fed buss with a separate switch to each
battery...I think in Bob's setup he uses a the diode to replace one of
those switches.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
and Lucy
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need a switch
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy
--> <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 11:09 AM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
>Just to say I agree with Frank's comments, and I'm doing it the same
>way he is. Individual switches for each function, simple, cheap, and
>reliable.
>
>Best regards,
>Mickey
The system I am working on does have a single switch for each fuel pump
and each electronic ignition.
The reason for the special switch is so I can choose which battery to
run them off in case one of the batteries fails.
I want to be able to run with all on or one of each on.
The diode setup of z19 has some problems if you hook more than a single
pump and ignition up to it.
Jim Pollard
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: lockwashers on Odyssey battery terminals? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
The first thing we learned in Strenght of Materials was that everything is
made of chewing gum. Some old gums were harder than others but EVERYTHING
DEFORMS, elastic or permenant !!! I use solder as a form of hotmelt glue
that conducts.
Leo Corbalis
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III terminals?" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lockwashers on Odyssey battery terminals?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net> terminals?
>
> At 01:29 AM 7/2/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>>
>>Ok, ignorant question....does anybody see a need to add a lockwasher to
>>the battery terminal bolts? My PC-680 battery just came with a plain
>>washer for each bolt, but no lockwasher. Seems like everything else on
>>an airplane uses some sort of lockwasher, cotter pin, or self locking
>>nut, so I'm wondering if this is an exception? No point in adding it if
>>it ain't needed though....
>
> Lockwashers are a real mixed bag . . . they're better than nothing
> but a whole lot less than a real thread-locking technology used
> to insure integrity of the joint.
>
> The "need" is very non-quantified. Battery terminals on my
> van get checked for torque every time I service anything under
> the hood . . . and more often than not, they move a bit under
> my very un-calibrated torque force which suggests that they
> have loosened since last tightening.
>
> I have considered thread locking these fasteners but I have
> some questions as to the mechanism that produces loosening.
> The threaded sockets on the battery are lead-alloy, did the
> fastener loosen because the lead moved? If so, tread locking
> will not fix it. The threads are in a horizontal plane and
> heavy cables come off the battery at right angles to that
> plane such that vertical vibration puts torque moments on
> the fastener. Hmmm . . . thread locking would work here quite
> nicely.
>
> As soon as I figure out which phenomenon I'm going to
> experiment with, I'll let you all know what I find out.
> In the mean time, the best anyone is likely to offer in
> answer to your question will be something like, "I (did/didn't)
> use lockwashers on my (fill in brand and part number) battery
> and I (have/haven't) had problems with loosening.
>
> The always right answer is thread lock the joint. There
> are commercial goops and goos from Locktite, Formagasket
> and others but simply coating the first few threads of
> your bolt with E-6000 cement will go a long way toward
> keeping the fastener from ROTATING. I believe that this
> battery uses brass inserts so concerns for soft material
> don't apply. E-6000 will add some insurance against
> movement but will not prevent normal removal/replacement
> of the fastener for maintenance.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron Kurth <cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
Bob
When I pulled the fuse to the Garmin 196 it was then
running off the internal batteries in the 196 and the
noise went away. It's quite repeatable, when I put
the 196 back on the plane's power buss the noise
returns. So maybe an inline filter will help?
Cam
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:46 PM 7/5/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron
> Kurth
> ><cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I have a Garmin 196 that is wired into the plane's
> >power buss. I get interference at a small range of
> >frequencies on my com radio from the Garmin (just
> >happens to be Detroit approach). If I pull the
> fuse
> >to the Garmin so it runs off the battery the
> >interference goes away. It's a similar
> interference
> >that the Dynon D10's had when they first came out.
> >
> >So, what kind of filter should I use? Will the
> Radio
> >Shack 270-055 work in this situation? I called
> Garmin
> >about it. They said that the 196 was a handheld so
> it
> >has to meet the same specs as a toaster. They were
> >very nice about it but quite clear that it's only a
> >handheld so it was not designed for airplane use
> and
> >I'm on my own.
>
> This is NOT going to be easy. The symptoms you
> describe
> walk, talk and smell like radiated noise from
> the radio
> itself. Try operating the Garmin from a separate
> portable
> battery (does it have internal batteries?). If
> the noise
> goes away, a filter in the wires may help. If
> the noise
> is still there, then relocating the Garmin is
> the only
> thing left . . . it's unlikely that you want to
> build
> a shielded enclosure for the Garmin.
>
> This is an example of what DO-160 does for us in
> the certified world. These issues are best
> addressed
> in the design lab as opposed to your cockpit.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Can you put your primary radio on speaker and stand outside the plane
and talk into the handheld and see if the plane receives it?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bakerocb@cox.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ICOM PTT
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
7/6/2005
Hello Experts, I have an ICOM IC-A4 hand held radio that I carry in my
airplane as a communications back up. I also have the ICOM OPC-752
Headset
Adapter cable accessory, but I do not have the separate ICOM 3.5 mm
diameter
PTT switch accessory for keying the transmitter while using the radio
with
that adapter and a headset. The manual says that the transmitter keying
button on the side of the radio will not work when the headset adapter
is
plugged in.
According to a diagram in the ICOM IC-A4 manual the ICOM PTT switch
simply
connects the tip of the microphone plug to the shank of the microphone
plug
in order to key the IC-A4 transmitter.
My question is: Can I instead use my standard push-to-talk switch, with
the
larger diameter sized microphone receptacle and plug such as David Clark
and
Telex sell, in line with the microphone plug from the headset to the
OPC-752
Adapter to key the IC-A4 transmitter?
ICOM refuses to answer this question for me by saying they won't comment
on
any one else's equipment. Thanks.
OC
PS: I suppose that there is no substitute for an actual trial test, but
I
haven't been able to get two people and another radio together to run
such a
test.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:42 AM 7/6/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron Kurth
><cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
>
>Bob
>
>When I pulled the fuse to the Garmin 196 it was then
>running off the internal batteries in the 196 and the
>noise went away. It's quite repeatable, when I put
>the 196 back on the plane's power buss the noise
>returns. So maybe an inline filter will help?
Good news. Yes, an inline filter will probably
help. It doesn't have to be big . . . that radio
can't draw much current. Do you know exactly how
much?
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Garmin 196 interferes with com radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
DO you get the same interference when you use the cigarette plug
adapter? If not then I would take a guess it is your wiring that you
installed and you can get a shielded cable to replace the el cheapo one
they send you for the combo plug on the back. I had the same issue when
I tried to split out the pins for power and data, that cable they
send/sell is crap, so I made my own, and it solved the issue.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Cameron Kurth
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron Kurth
<cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
Bob
When I pulled the fuse to the Garmin 196 it was then
running off the internal batteries in the 196 and the
noise went away. It's quite repeatable, when I put
the 196 back on the plane's power buss the noise
returns. So maybe an inline filter will help?
Cam
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:46 PM 7/5/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron
> Kurth
> ><cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I have a Garmin 196 that is wired into the plane's
> >power buss. I get interference at a small range of
> >frequencies on my com radio from the Garmin (just
> >happens to be Detroit approach). If I pull the
> fuse
> >to the Garmin so it runs off the battery the
> >interference goes away. It's a similar
> interference
> >that the Dynon D10's had when they first came out.
> >
> >So, what kind of filter should I use? Will the
> Radio
> >Shack 270-055 work in this situation? I called
> Garmin
> >about it. They said that the 196 was a handheld so
> it
> >has to meet the same specs as a toaster. They were
> >very nice about it but quite clear that it's only a
> >handheld so it was not designed for airplane use
> and
> >I'm on my own.
>
> This is NOT going to be easy. The symptoms you
> describe
> walk, talk and smell like radiated noise from
> the radio
> itself. Try operating the Garmin from a separate
> portable
> battery (does it have internal batteries?). If
> the noise
> goes away, a filter in the wires may help. If
> the noise
> is still there, then relocating the Garmin is
> the only
> thing left . . . it's unlikely that you want to
> build
> a shielded enclosure for the Garmin.
>
> This is an example of what DO-160 does for us in
> the certified world. These issues are best
> addressed
> in the design lab as opposed to your cockpit.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
If you subscribe to the 'single failure' philosophy for one flight, then
the batteries are only in the equation if the alternator has failed!
But ignoring that detail, and assuming battery only operation...
Powering each ignition and pump from a separate battery (as in Z-19)
provides redundancy. Whatever single item fails (battery, or ignition,
or pump, or switch), you complete the flight with the other one.
Allowing each pump and ignition to be powered by either battery does
allow for certain multiple failures (2 failures of different
components), but not all: failure of both batteries, or pumps, or
ignitions, or both switches to either the pumps or ignitions). Is the
added cost and complexity really value added? A test: write the
procedure for properly positioning the switches for your flight manual.
If (after the alternator fails) a battery fails, do you really want (or
need) to run both ignitions? You could fly longer by only using one.
A previous version of my electrical system had a 3 way switch to allow
my E-Bus to be powered from either battery. Bob Nuckolls pointed out
that all it did was provide an opportunity to make a bad decision, so I
simplified back to a 2 way switch. A simple system for my simple mind
:-)
Dennis Glaeser
RV-7A Empennage
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy
<jpollard@ciaccess.com
<mailto:jpollard@ciaccess.com?subjectRe:%20Need%20a%20switch&replyto20
0507061334.j66DY6oa022514@mail.matronics.com> >
Working on the wiring diagram for a subaru
powered Zodiac with 2 fuel pumps and 2 electronic
ignitions and 2 batteries.
I would like a switch that would allow me to run
each ignition and each fuel pump of either of my
2 battery busses. This would be 4 switches.
Also the best setup for this would be down position
of the switch is off. Middle would be left battery
and all the way up would be other battery.
I looked at quite allot of switches last night and
they all seemed to have the middle position as on.
thanks for any pointers
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Zenair ch601hds
ea81
Message 21
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|
Received-SPF: softfail (mta6: domain of transitioning trigo@mail.telepac.pt does
not designate 85.138.30.109 as permitted sender) receiver=mta6; client_ip=85.138.30.109;
envelope-from=trigo@mail.telepac.pt;
| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Mickey
Does that mean that you are not using the ExpBus?
Carlos
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Just to say I agree with Frank's comments, and I'm doing it
the same way he is. Individual switches for each function,
simple, cheap, and reliable.
Best regards,
Mickey
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron Kurth <cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
Bob
Do I filter the power supply to the com radio or the
GPS? I think the com radio pulls about 5-7 amps.
It's a King KX125.
Lloyd
I have the stock data/power cable. I was looking at
the lack of shielding and thought I might try using
shielded wire on the power side. I don't have a way
of hooking up the cigar lighter plug in the plane.
It's either to the power buss or internal batteries.
Cam
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 11:42 AM 7/6/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron
> Kurth
> ><cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >When I pulled the fuse to the Garmin 196 it was
> then
> >running off the internal batteries in the 196 and
> the
> >noise went away. It's quite repeatable, when I put
> >the 196 back on the plane's power buss the noise
> >returns. So maybe an inline filter will help?
>
> Good news. Yes, an inline filter will probably
> help. It doesn't have to be big . . . that radio
> can't draw much current. Do you know exactly how
> much?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
Cam,
I have a Garmin GPS 196 wired to the bus in my Long-EZ and have
experienced no problems (that I know of). In addition, my installation
uses the RS-232 data in/data out wires with 4800 baud NMEA data pulsing
continuously. Of course, there are real differences in our
installations (e.g. antenna locations) but I would be interested in the
specific VHF frequencies so I can test my setup.
My cable came from http://pfranc.com/, more specifically the pDP0 cable
($9.99 on the right side of http://pfranc.com/cables/index.mhtml). It
seems well constructed and contains a molded-in ferrite choke. I
ordered two of them from Frank McJunkin, fmcjunki@comcast.net and paid
$10 each postpaid. (I use the second one on my bench for the occasions
when I bring the GPS home to program for a complex route, learn to use
all the features, upgrade the firmware, upgrade the databases, or
download the logbook. Come to think of it, that second cable gets used
more than the first <g>)
--
Joe
Joe Dubner, K7JD
523 Cedar Avenue
Lewiston, ID 83501
cell: (208) 305-2688
http://www.nicon.org/chapter328/jd/
On 06-Jul-05 14:33 Cameron Kurth wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron Kurth <cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
>
> Bob
> Do I filter the power supply to the com radio or the
> GPS? I think the com radio pulls about 5-7 amps.
> It's a King KX125.
>
> Lloyd
> I have the stock data/power cable. I was looking at
> the lack of shielding and thought I might try using
> shielded wire on the power side. I don't have a way
> of hooking up the cigar lighter plug in the plane.
> It's either to the power buss or internal batteries.
>
> Cam
>
>
> --- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
>> Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>
>> At 11:42 AM 7/6/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron
>> Kurth
>> ><cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >Bob
>> >
>> >When I pulled the fuse to the Garmin 196 it was
>> then
>> >running off the internal batteries in the 196 and
>> the
>> >noise went away. It's quite repeatable, when I put
>> >the 196 back on the plane's power buss the noise
>> >returns. So maybe an inline filter will help?
>>
>> Good news. Yes, an inline filter will probably
>> help. It doesn't have to be big . . . that radio
>> can't draw much current. Do you know exactly how
>> much?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 05:00 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
><trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>
>Mickey
>
>Does that mean that you are not using the ExpBus?
>
>Carlos
No EXpBus
Jim Pollard
zenair 601
subaru ea81
2 fuel pumps 1 at each wing tank
2 crane cams ignitions
1 holley 1920 carb
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 04:11 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A"
><dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
>
>If you subscribe to the 'single failure' philosophy for one flight, then
>the batteries are only in the equation if the alternator has failed!
I think I have the single point of failures all addressed as
much as possible.
If either battery or its wiring fails. I have another battery
also hooked to the alternator.
If the alternator fails, I have 2 batteries to run on.
If a fuel pump fails, I run on the other at the other wing tank.
IF an ignition fails, I run on the other one.
Both ignitions are not on together except for takeoff and landing.
If any one of the two switches fails for the 2 pumps and any one of the
two switches fails for the 2 ignitions, I will run on the other pump or
ignition.
By using this special switch Bob mentioned earlier I can choose which
battery is powering either pump and ignition. Otherwise keeping one ignition
and pump dedicated to one battery could cause a case where I have
a full tank but that pump is hooked to a dead battery during an electrical
failure.
During normal operations it would not matter which on position the
switch was in. IE hooked to left battery buss or right battery bus.
If the alternator quits, I will open all contactors to save power.
The pumps and ignition are hooked to the always live battery buses
so the engine will not quit when the contactors are opened.
The eis is hooked to the battery buses and it will warm me for
overvoltage or under voltage. There is a switch to
power the EIS from either of the battery busses. This way
the voltage can be checked on each one separately.
Overvoltage is taken care of automatically by Bobs crowbar gizmo
on my externally regulated ND alternator.
thanks for all the replys guys
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Zenair ch601hds
subaru ea81
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 interferes with com radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Cameron Kurth <cameronkurth@yahoo.com>
>I would be interested in the specific VHF frequencies
so I can test my setup.
>
The only frequency that has any interference is
118.95. That just happens to be Detroit Approach. I
live under Detroit's class B airspace so it's an
important frequency for me. Also I'm working on my
instrument ticket so I talk to approach quite abit and
a channel full of static just doesn't help in my
learnings :)
Cam
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: Help - low voltage - update |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jsto1@tampabay.rr.com>
I was running some current calibration tests this weekend and measured
the following values for Nav lights (9 Amps average) and Aeroquip
Strobes (7 Amps average). However the strobes are a pulsed load so
current peaks are much higher. Voltage drops, imply that the alternator
and/or battery cannot meet the peak power needs so the voltage drops.
The starting voltage indicates the battery isn't fully charged to begin
with.
If you were pulling 20 Amps and added another 7 Amps average, and the
voltage dropped as noted, I'd suspect that the alternator may be
undersized, or have a regulator/diode problem. Checking with an
osilloscope and currnt probe could define the peak current surge but
most people don't have access to that equipment. You might check the
Wheelin data sheets to see if they list peak currents.
The EI monitor will probably work down to around 10V.
Jim Stone
Jabiru J450
Clearwater FL.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
& Lee Anne Wiebe
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Help - low voltage - update
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike & Lee Anne Wiebe"
--> <mwiebe@sympatico.ca>
Well all, sorry for the slow response. But is seems that the need to
make money to buy avgas got in the way of consuming it for the last week
or so.
Thx for the advice on my low voltage situation (Falco, with EI
instrumentation). I tested various conditions in a 'safe flight'
environment and found the following, using the on board EI
instrumentation. I seem to have isolated it to a strobe issue, but
would appreciate any insights.
Battery voltage before start 12.2 (it had run a little, cycling gear
etc. for some other tests recently). After start, charging 25A at 13.9V
at 1100rpm. Within 30 seconds, it was 15A, same other readings.
I loaded it up to a 20 amp draw in runup (1700 rpm) in various
configurations and saw between 13.8 and 14.0 volts. The only exception
was with the strobe on and it was bouncing between 12.1 and 12.9 volts,
and between 12-14 amps draw. In flight (anywhere between 2300 and
2700 rpm), with loads of up to 20 Amps saw voltages of 14.2 virtually
rock solid. Again however, with the strobe on, voltage varied between
12.9-14.1 volts, and 11-13 amps draw.
All other readings in the cockpit (egt, cht, oil temps/pressures, etc.)
which are also all monitored through EI instrumentation were rock solid
during strobe operation. So I don't think it's strobe noise issue. The
strobes work (Whelan, big multiple flash unit). So the simple answer
appears to be to leave the strobes off. However, if any genius out
there can describe a failure mode from this data, I'd sure appreciate
the insights.
Thx
Mike
Message 28
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com
Bob: On your Z-14 diagram you show a primary fuel pump on the main
battery bus and a secondary fuel pump on the auxiliary battery bus. Is this two
sources of power to the same fuel pump? If yes this solves my problem.
Tonight I went out to start my plane and I had left the main master on over
night. main battery dead of course. Aux battery fine but right now I only have
the electric fuel pump wired to the main battery buss so no fuel pump and
crossfeed doesn't help. Engine would crank but without fuel pump no start.
Two
solutions I considered 1. two battery sources to fuel pump, therefore my
question above or 2. move the fuel pump wire to Main or Aux bus. Thanks
Tim Rhodenbaugh
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 6 Jul 2005, at 19:44, Jim and Lucy wrote:
> I think I have the single point of failures all addressed as
> much as possible.
>
...
> IF an ignition fails, I run on the other one.
>
> Both ignitions are not on together except for takeoff and landing.
>
> If any one of the two switches fails for the 2 pumps and any one of
> the
> two switches fails for the 2 ignitions, I will run on the other
> pump or
> ignition.
>
Something to think about - if one ignition fails, and you then select
the other ignition on, the engine will have been pushing unburnt fuel
into the exhaust. There is a good chance you will have a very large
backfire, which could possibly break an exhaust stack off. A broken
exhaust stack could lead to a fire.
Possible solutions:
1. an exhaust system robust enough to handle massive backfires
without failure (= heavy), or
2. Run both ignitions all the time, or
3. Convince yourself that you will be smart enough to pull the
throttle to idle before selecting the other ignition to ON.
Personally, I've made enough screwups in my time that I would be very
cautious about assuming I wouldn't screw this one up.
If you believe the exhaust system is robust enough to handle
backfires, I would want to demonstrate this capability in controlled
conditions during the flight test program. Go over head the
airfield, with one ignition ON, and the other OFF. Select the first
ignition OFF, don't move the throttle, wait several seconds, then
select the second ignition ON. Pull the throttle to idle and do an
immediate approach and landing, using as little power as possible.
Inspect the exhaust system and repeat. Start the tests with low
power, working up in power for subsequent tests until you have done
one at full power. I'd rather discover a problem during this kind of
testing, than have an ignition fail when I am a long way from the
airfield and have to spend a long time with power on, and a possible
broken exhaust stack.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 7/6/2005 9:10:30 P.M. Central Standard Time,
khorton01@rogers.com writes:
3. Convince yourself that you will be smart enough to pull the
throttle to idle before selecting the other ignition to ON.
Personally, I've made enough screw ups in my time that I would be very
cautious about assuming I wouldn't screw this one up.
Good Evening Kevin,
If you are going to go with this one, I would strongly suggest that you
place the mixture in idle cutoff instead of closing the throttle. Pushing the
mixture slowly in after the ignition is on and with the throttle full open will
be a lot easier on the engine and it will also start a lot easier with full
throttle than it will with the throttle closed.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 31
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
bakerocb@cox.net wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
>
>7/6/2005
>
>Hello Experts, I have an ICOM IC-A4 hand held radio that I carry in my
>airplane as a communications back up. I also have the ICOM OPC-752 Headset
>Adapter cable accessory, but I do not have the separate ICOM 3.5 mm diameter
>PTT switch accessory for keying the transmitter while using the radio with
>that adapter and a headset. The manual says that the transmitter keying
>button on the side of the radio will not work when the headset adapter is
>plugged in.
>
>According to a diagram in the ICOM IC-A4 manual the ICOM PTT switch simply
>connects the tip of the microphone plug to the shank of the microphone plug
>in order to key the IC-A4 transmitter.
>
>My question is: Can I instead use my standard push-to-talk switch, with the
>larger diameter sized microphone receptacle and plug such as David Clark and
>Telex sell, in line with the microphone plug from the headset to the OPC-752
>Adapter to key the IC-A4 transmitter?
>
>ICOM refuses to answer this question for me by saying they won't comment on
>any one else's equipment. Thanks.
>
>OC
>
>PS: I suppose that there is no substitute for an actual trial test, but I
>haven't been able to get two people and another radio together to run such a
>test.
>
Plug in the headset adaptor, turn on the radio & push the side mounted
xmit button. Does the xmit led light up?
My IC-A4 works fine using the adaptor & the regular xmit button.
My manual says the radio won't work while on the external charge jack
(exactly opposite what the ICOM rep promised me before I bought it).
Charlie
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Need a switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 10:08 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
>Something to think about - if one ignition fails, and you then select
>the other ignition on, the engine will have been pushing unburnt fuel
>into the exhaust. There is a good chance you will have a very large
>backfire,
That is a good thing to think about that I had not got to yet.
For the first few hours my exhaust system will be as it is now
with just 2 straight 19 inch straight pipes coming off the heads
and exiting the cowl to a few inches behind the firewall.
Some mufflers will be added later.
I have been told that the belt drive subaru does not spin
very long in the air after the engine shuts down and getting
an airstart will be way over vne. So that may help some.
I once shut of the ignition on a pickup while at highway speed
to try to hear a distant CB radio transmission that was
being overpowered by the ignition noise. When I turned it
back on one of the mufflers ripped itself to shreds. Did
not no any better at 18 years old.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Message 33
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| Subject: | Warning lights fro day VFR |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
Folks,
Could some of you guys recommend warning lights to put on the panel? My
objective is to have bright lights therefore visible in direct sunlight.
LEDs could probably do it better than incandescent bulbs. Since I shall not
be doing night VFR or IFR as most of Europe does not allow it with
experimentals (unless the engine and avionics are certified and maintained
as a certified), I would not need a dimmer circuit.
Thanks,
Mich=E8le Delsol
RV8 Fuselage (working on first assembly of the dreaded gear boxes).
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