Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:13 AM - Re: B&C conversation on operating SD8 (Vern W.)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: PTT coiled cord (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:18 AM - Zeftronics vs B&C (Peter Mather)
4. 06:36 AM - question on b-lead protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:22 AM - Re: B&C conversation on operating SD8 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Zeftronics vs B&C (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:54 AM - Re: Zeftronics vs B&C (Peter Mather)
8. 08:13 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 07/20/05 (Ernest Christley)
9. 08:42 AM - Re: B&C conversation on operating SD8 (Richard Sipp)
10. 11:05 AM - Re: Zeftronics vs B&C (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 11:21 AM - Re: Physical layout (Phil Birkelbach)
12. 11:26 AM - Doublechecking before I cut metal (Richard Riley)
13. 01:43 PM - alternate air conditioning (Dj Merrill)
14. 01:47 PM - Re: Doublechecking before I cut metal (Jim Stone)
15. 02:19 PM - Re: alternate air conditioning (Mark Cochran)
16. 02:25 PM - Re: "P" lead length (John Schroeder)
17. 02:41 PM - Re: alternate air conditioning (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 04:19 PM - Re: alternate air conditioning (Ed Anderson)
19. 04:28 PM - Re: Panel Holes (Emrath)
20. 05:18 PM - Re: alternate air conditioning (Dj Merrill)
21. 07:05 PM - Re: Doublechecking before I cut metal (LarryRobertHelming)
22. 07:30 PM - Cherokee bouncing loadmeter (jdalton77)
23. 07:41 PM - Re: Cherokee bouncing loadmeter (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
24. 08:59 PM - Tach source for EIS (John Swartout)
25. 09:15 PM - Re: alternate air conditioning (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 11:02 PM - Re: "P" lead length (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: B&C conversation on operating SD8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vern W." <vernw@ev1.net>
Allow me to jump in here, Frank.
The moment a battery goes offline from it's alternator, it will go to
less than 12.5 volts right away, and I do mean IMMEDIATELY if it has any
kind of load on it (which it will).
It's not a matter of "bleeding" off voltage and having the battery "use
up" capacity before it gets to 12.5 volts without the alternator online, but
rather, that the battery immediately will go to it's "at rest" operating
voltage, and that's going to happen right away.
Any instrument panel load will pull the battery voltage down to trigger
the low-volt warning; in other words, you'll get the low voltage indication
at the moment the alternator goes open, and not "later" when the battery
runs down.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but amperage draw on the battery isn't going to
change when the alternator goes offline because whats drawing amps are the
avionics in your instrument panel, not the alternator. When the alternator
goes down, I don't think there would be any change in current draw but the
voltage will cause an immediate warning, and I think that's what you're
looking for.
Vern
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B&C conversation on operating SD8
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> My hands are trembling at the thought of disagreeing with Bob...Its of a
> "David and Goliath" thing..:)
>
> But I'm a little uncomfortable at this statement...
>
> Active notification of low voltage is the simplest, most
> direct indication of poor alternator performance. There is
> no imperative to speedy action when the low voltage light
> comes on. If you're in the middle of an approach, ignore
> it. If you're in cruising flight, finish your cup of coffee
> before reacting to the light. This delay will not affect the
> outcome of your flight. Hence, there is no level of safety
> offered by automatically switching things. Automating these
> functions only drives up parts count and tends to take the
> pilot out of the loop for something he needs to know about
> and can be handled at a very sedate pace.
>
>
> In the world of steam driven guages I would agree that low voltage
> notification is the simplest but...
>
> It's a second order issue, in other wods the volts drop because the
> alternator has entered boat anchour teritory....The failure you are
> detecting is not that the alternator has gone away, but that the battery
> volts are dropping because the alt has gone.
>
> Why is this significant?...Probably isn't if you set your trip point at
> say 12.5V...Alt will normally make 14.5V and when it goes away the
> battery volts will presumably get to below 12.5 pretty quickly.
>
> However...In the modern day of the solid state engine manager you can
> set an alarm on any parameter you want. So why not detect the loss of
> current from the alternator directly and not wait for the battery volts
> to drop?
>
> In other words, put the current shunt in the main alternator line and
> set the alarm on low current...If your normal day VFR is say 10amps, set
> the alarm at 5.
>
> While your at it also set an alarm on the battery volts as your engine
> manager will be monitoring that as well, you can then use this feature
> to load manage your SD8...Assuming your not still drinking the
> coffee..:).
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Frank
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: PTT coiled cord |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:48 AM 7/21/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <jlundberg@cox.net>
>
>
>Does anyone know where to buy coiled PTT wire. Its the cord that goes
>from the PTT switch on the yoke to the mike key terminal on the mic jack.
The ones we use in production are usually custom made.
Not cheap. You can find a variety of coil-cord products
in the wild that can be adapted. My personal favorite
are flash sync cords for photographic strobes. Used
camera stores will often have boxes full of coiled
cords of various kinds at very reasonable prices. You can
get them from places like Ebay too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64354&item=7523536455&rd=1
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Zeftronics vs B&C |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
Can anyone give me pros and cons of the Zeftronics regulators such as R15V00-A
compared to the LR3C-14
Thanks
Peter
Message 4
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| Subject: | question on b-lead protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>I have a question on alternator circuit breakers. As I understand from
>your writings, you recommend using an alternator (B lead) breaker rated at
>20% more than the rated capacity of the alternator. My question is this;
>What are we protecting with that breaker, the wiring from the alternator
>to the bus or the alternator itself?
Circuit protection always goes on the SOURCE end of
the at-risk wire. In this case the at-risk wire is the
b-lead and the hazardous source is the BATTERY. An
alternator is incapable of burning its own b-lead.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | B&C conversation on operating SD8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Oh I see, that explains why one uses batt volts to detect loss of
alt...cool.
I was considering putting the ammeter shunt in the B lead from the alt.
Thus if the alt dies the current in the B lead itself will go to zero.
That was how I was going to detect the failure. The disadvantage is that
I will loose amperage information if I loose the main alternator. Not
entirely great as I have to carefully manage loads when using the SD8.
OK I got it now...I will use volts and use the ammeter shut to detect
actual electrical load.
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern
W.
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C conversation on operating SD8
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vern W." <vernw@ev1.net>
Allow me to jump in here, Frank.
The moment a battery goes offline from it's alternator, it will go
to less than 12.5 volts right away, and I do mean IMMEDIATELY if it has
any kind of load on it (which it will).
It's not a matter of "bleeding" off voltage and having the battery
"use up" capacity before it gets to 12.5 volts without the alternator
online, but rather, that the battery immediately will go to it's "at
rest" operating voltage, and that's going to happen right away.
Any instrument panel load will pull the battery voltage down to
trigger the low-volt warning; in other words, you'll get the low voltage
indication at the moment the alternator goes open, and not "later" when
the battery runs down.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but amperage draw on the battery isn't
going to change when the alternator goes offline because whats drawing
amps are the avionics in your instrument panel, not the alternator. When
the alternator goes down, I don't think there would be any change in
current draw but the voltage will cause an immediate warning, and I
think that's what you're looking for.
Vern
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zeftronics vs B&C |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:15 AM 7/21/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
>
>Can anyone give me pros and cons of the Zeftronics regulators such as
>R15V00-A compared to the LR3C-14
The R15V00 does not include LV warning. You can achieve
the same functionality as LR3C-14 by installing an external
low voltage warning.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zeftronics vs B&C |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
Bob
The new rev A version appears to include LV unless I'm mis-interpreting the spec.
Regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zeftronics vs B&C
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 05:15 AM 7/21/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
> >
> > Can anyone give me pros and cons of the Zeftronics regulators such as
> > R15V00-A compared to the LR3C-14
>
> The R15V00 does not include LV warning. You can achieve
> the same functionality as LR3C-14 by installing an external
> low voltage warning.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 07/20/05 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>>Couple of points to confirm:
>>
>>If everything is running fine and I just turn on the SD8, nothing should
>>happen except that I get the normal 40A off the main alternator plus
>>8-10 from the SD8! True?
>>
>>
>
> Only if the SD-8 regulator is set high enough. It MAY
> not pick up ANY load if set lower.
>
>
>
>
>>I understand that the reason not to leave it running is that it would
>>mask a primary alternator failure. Sounds true?
>>
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>
Why couldn't you just set the regulator of the SD-8 (or any backup
alternator) to a voltage halfway between the battery and the primary.
Set the primary generator to 14.3, and the backup to 13.8. If the
primary fails, the voltage drops enough to provide active notification,
AND the backup comes on line immediately without pilot intervention.
Assuming the backup can handle it the load, tying it directly to the
endurance bus could even eliminate the need to switch off the master if
the pilot felt so inclined.
A dual color LED would go yellow then red as the voltage dropped from
14.3 to 13.8 to 12. On startup, there would just be a very brief
transition from red to yellow to off, as the electron pusher pulled the
battery back up from the starting drain (Would it be so brief as to be
unnoticeable?)
This doesn't sound like it would be very difficult to implement, but
would it work?
--
,|"|"|, |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta |
o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: B&C conversation on operating SD8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
This is exactly how my airplane operates. Low voltage light comes on within
10 seconds or so of engine or alt shutdown.
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vern W." <vernw@ev1.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C conversation on operating SD8
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vern W." <vernw@ev1.net>
>
> Allow me to jump in here, Frank.
> The moment a battery goes offline from it's alternator, it will go to
> less than 12.5 volts right away, and I do mean IMMEDIATELY if it has any
> kind of load on it (which it will).
> It's not a matter of "bleeding" off voltage and having the battery "use
> up" capacity before it gets to 12.5 volts without the alternator online,
> but
> rather, that the battery immediately will go to it's "at rest" operating
> voltage, and that's going to happen right away.
> Any instrument panel load will pull the battery voltage down to trigger
> the low-volt warning; in other words, you'll get the low voltage
> indication
> at the moment the alternator goes open, and not "later" when the battery
> runs down.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but amperage draw on the battery isn't going
> to
> change when the alternator goes offline because whats drawing amps are the
> avionics in your instrument panel, not the alternator. When the alternator
> goes down, I don't think there would be any change in current draw but the
> voltage will cause an immediate warning, and I think that's what you're
> looking for.
>
> Vern
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B&C conversation on operating SD8
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
>> (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> My hands are trembling at the thought of disagreeing with Bob...Its of a
>> "David and Goliath" thing..:)
>>
>> But I'm a little uncomfortable at this statement...
>>
>> Active notification of low voltage is the simplest, most
>> direct indication of poor alternator performance. There is
>> no imperative to speedy action when the low voltage light
>> comes on. If you're in the middle of an approach, ignore
>> it. If you're in cruising flight, finish your cup of coffee
>> before reacting to the light. This delay will not affect the
>> outcome of your flight. Hence, there is no level of safety
>> offered by automatically switching things. Automating these
>> functions only drives up parts count and tends to take the
>> pilot out of the loop for something he needs to know about
>> and can be handled at a very sedate pace.
>>
>>
>> In the world of steam driven guages I would agree that low voltage
>> notification is the simplest but...
>>
>> It's a second order issue, in other wods the volts drop because the
>> alternator has entered boat anchour teritory....The failure you are
>> detecting is not that the alternator has gone away, but that the battery
>> volts are dropping because the alt has gone.
>>
>> Why is this significant?...Probably isn't if you set your trip point at
>> say 12.5V...Alt will normally make 14.5V and when it goes away the
>> battery volts will presumably get to below 12.5 pretty quickly.
>>
>> However...In the modern day of the solid state engine manager you can
>> set an alarm on any parameter you want. So why not detect the loss of
>> current from the alternator directly and not wait for the battery volts
>> to drop?
>>
>> In other words, put the current shunt in the main alternator line and
>> set the alarm on low current...If your normal day VFR is say 10amps, set
>> the alarm at 5.
>>
>> While your at it also set an alarm on the battery volts as your engine
>> manager will be monitoring that as well, you can then use this feature
>> to load manage your SD8...Assuming your not still drinking the
>> coffee..:).
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Zeftronics vs B&C |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:52 AM 7/21/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
>
>Bob
>
>The new rev A version appears to include LV unless I'm mis-interpreting
>the spec.
I've looked the spec sheet over at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Zeftronics/R15V00RevA-PIT.pdf
The way this is set up, I believe that "low volts" is inferred
by noting alternator shutdown. The low volts sensor is not an
independently powered monitor of actual bus voltage. The Zeftronics
implementation seems to be a more sophisticated version of the
alternator "idiot light" of years gone by.
I suspect the regulation and ovp features are just fine. I'd
still recommend a separate LV Warning system of some variety.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Physical layout |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
I mounted one of those Wig-Wag flashers by using some E6000 and sticking
a piece of aluminum with a hole drilled in it to the side of the thing.
Nothing says you can't put the little beast in a wing root or under the
baggage floor or back in the fuselage.
You would want your battery contactor as close to the battery as
practical. My battery, battery contactor, starter contactor and
alternator contactor (internally regulated alternator) are on the
forward side of my firewall.
Fuse blocks are another question. Many people build nice hinged frames
to mount them too that can swing from under the panel. I have mine on
the firewall in front of the passenger rudder pedals. If you give up on
the idea of being able to replace fuses in flight then your options go
up. It's not a bad idea to keep the main buss pretty close to those
contactors too but in your case that may be difficult. How about face
down under the panel? A rough landing might dislodge a fuse or two :-)
but it'd be easier to get to than mine.
I have quite a bit of electro-whizzy things under the seat covers.
Things like flap and trim relays seem to go well there. It may be a
good place for the wig-wag widget too.
I'm not very familiar with the Mustang II so I am just throwing out
ideas. Sometimes the "where do I mount this?" question is the worst
part of the install. Figuring out where to run the wires is a close
second. Actually running the wire is the easy part. Tedious but easy.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
http://www.myrv7.com
mark supinski wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mark supinski <mark.supinski@gmail.com>
>
>Sorry 'bout that -- we're building a Mustang II. This design has a 25
>gallon fuel tank 8 inches forward of the instrument panel. The
>challenge being there is little / no internal firewall space to mount
>things.
>
>Mark
>
>On 7/20/05, Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net> wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
>>
>>It would be helpful to know what kind of airplane you are building.
>>
>>Godspeed,
>>
>>Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
>>RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
>>http://www.myrv7.com
>>
>>
>>mark supinski wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mark supinski <mark.supinski@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>Hello All-
>>>
>>>After reading the 'connection and pouring over the sample system
>>>layouts, we've selected z-19 as the model which best fits our needs.
>>>The design of the system from the electrical level is clear to me.
>>>What has me scratching my head is the physical layout of the system.
>>>Specifically, where am I mounting things like battery contactors, fuse
>>>blocks, wig-wag flashers, etc? And, how am I mechanically mounting
>>>these elements? The wig-wag flasher is a great example -- It's
>>>intended to be plugged into board. Thus it has no mounting
>>>provisions.
>>>
>>>Any pointers on the above appreciated...
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Doublechecking before I cut metal |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
I'm just about to start cutting metal for my instrument panel and wanted to
do one, final sanity check.
Configuration:
Canard Pusher
Lycoming 540
L-60 and LR-3
SD-8
2 lightspeed electronic ignitions
All electric panel
2 17 AH batteries, Figure Z-13 plus Z-30, sd 8 regulator set to 13 volts
I believe I need holes in the panel for
1) DPDT DC power master switch (locking)
2) SPST Aux power
3) SPST momentary starter (pushbutton)
4) SPST Main alt field (mini, locking)
5) SPST Aux alt field (mini, locking)
Am I correct so far? Any other switch holes I need for the power
system? Of course, I also have the functional switches - fuel pump,
lights, etc.
What do I have to add to parallel the 2 batteries for starting?
Message 13
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| Subject: | alternate air conditioning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
These guys may have hit upon an excellent air
conditioning option that would work well in small aircraft.
I wonder how much electricity it takes?
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2841984
Really cool invention brings teens awards
Physics students: They came up with an environmentally friendly,
economical air conditioner
By Jessica Ravitz
The Salt Lake Tribune
Riverton High School students Tyler Lyon, left, and Daniel Winegar won
Ricoh's Sustainable Development Award for their invention. (Danny Chan
La/The Salt Lake Tribune )
BLUFFDALE - The code name, Space Beast, was one they came up with in the
wee hours of the night.
Tyler Lyon, Daniel Winegar and Chad Thornley were overtired and
giddy as they tackled a science fair project. Their idea: Eliminate the
use of Freon in automobile air-conditioning systems by relying on the
Peltier effect - of course.
"We aren't planning our lives around making air conditioners," Lyon
explained. "We wanted to do something to help the environment and the
economy."
But what began as a Riverton High School physics class assignment
nearly two years ago has morphed into an award-winning, internationally
recognized invention.
Lyon and Winegar, two recent Riverton graduates - Thornley graduated
in 2004 and is now on an LDS Church mission - won the first-ever Ricoh
Sustainable Development Award in May when they competed against 1,400
other worldwide invitation-only entries at the Intel International
Science and Engineering Fair in Phoenix.
Aside from the $50,000 college scholarship the two 18-year-olds will
share, the budding engineers are jetting off to Japan today for a 10-day
visit on Ricoh's dime. The office equipment and electronics company, a
leader in the field of sustainable development, has invited the Utahns
to attend the World Expo, address Ricoh executives, tour their research
and development lab, meet with government officials - including the
Minister of the Environment - and sit down with Tokyo University professors.
"It's been a total, unbelievable dream," marveled Tyler's mom, Diane
Lyon, last week. "They're just typical boys. But when someone believes
in you, amazing things can happen."
Physics teacher Kari Lewis, who recently left Riverton High, said
trusting in Lyon and Winegar was easy.
"They came up with this idea . . . and they made it work," she said.
"It's a perfect solution to an incredible problem."
Today, the young inventors say, U.S. drivers use about 7.9 billion
gallons of fuel each year to run their air-conditioners, which draw
power from the engine. By adopting their contraption - which taps into
the electrical system, using fans to blow hot air through five Peltier
chips and then releasing cold air - they say the country stands to save
3.9 billion gallons of fuel annually, or about $10 billion based on
current gas prices.
Furthermore, the product would free drivers from Freon - which
despite improvements, remains an ozone-depleting chemical in current
air-conditioners. The Peltier chips, which they purchased on eBay for
$9.99 each, have a life span of 20 to 30 years and an unfaltering
cooling capacity. And like every component in the Space Beast, which can
be minimized in size to about 2 inches in width, the chips are recyclable.
As a young boy, Lyon's parents said he tore apart and reassembled
household electronics - CD players, clocks, an old stereo that didn't
work until he fixed it. And while Daniel's mom, LouAnn Winegar, was
grateful her son was "not a take-apart-person," she said her boy's love
for science, engineering and computers has been consistent.
"It's nice to see all of his years of interest and hard work being
recognized," she said.
The two-year process of fine-tuning, however, was not without its
glitches. When the teens were trying to convert a blow-dryer fan from AC
to DC power, a miswiring gave Lyon a doozy of a shock - "a low-enough
amp that it couldn't really stop my heart," he said. And there was that
computer power strip that they managed to ignite, before throwing it
outside in the snow, only to retrieve it two days later to recycle its
parts.
Despite the setbacks, and bouts of procrastination, the teens didn't
give up. When they weren't playing computer games, skiing, snowboarding
or, in Lyon's case, rock-climbing, they buckled down, sometimes working
through the night. Their focus nearly cost them graduation - they had to
scramble to make up work in other classes - but they accomplished what
others couldn't.
After they had already begun their work, Lyon and Winegar learned
about a 1964 General Motors analysis that explored the idea before the
car company concluded it wasn't possible.
Going in with open minds, however, the teens were not deterred and
pulled off what GM rejected.
"Nobody told them it couldn't be done," Robert Lyon, Tyler's dad, said.
The first time he felt a cold gust of air successfully come through
the system, Winegar said he remembers saying: "We may actually have
something here."
Looks like they do. A Salt Lake City attorney is working to secure a
patent. The Environmental Protection Agency called to express interest
Tuesday morning. And though repeated attempts to communicate with Gov.
Jon Huntsman Jr. have gone unanswered, high officials in Japan - an
ocean away - are awaiting the arrival of Riverton's young inventors.
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Doublechecking before I cut metal |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
Richard,
Don't cut yet. Keep working the plan. When you can draw it all out in
detail and are happy with it and understand it all, cut your panel. Until
that time, you risk having to redo it. I spent years monitoring this list,
rereading the Aeroelectric connection before I was at the point of cutting.
Good luck,
Jim Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Riley" <richard@RILEY.NET>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Doublechecking before I cut metal
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
>
> I'm just about to start cutting metal for my instrument panel and wanted
> to
> do one, final sanity check.
>
> Configuration:
>
> Canard Pusher
> Lycoming 540
> L-60 and LR-3
> SD-8
> 2 lightspeed electronic ignitions
> All electric panel
>
> 2 17 AH batteries, Figure Z-13 plus Z-30, sd 8 regulator set to 13 volts
>
> I believe I need holes in the panel for
>
> 1) DPDT DC power master switch (locking)
> 2) SPST Aux power
> 3) SPST momentary starter (pushbutton)
> 4) SPST Main alt field (mini, locking)
> 5) SPST Aux alt field (mini, locking)
>
> Am I correct so far? Any other switch holes I need for the power
> system? Of course, I also have the functional switches - fuel pump,
> lights, etc.
>
> What do I have to add to parallel the 2 batteries for starting?
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | alternate air conditioning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Cochran" <mac@atac.com>
Interesting, D.J., Thanks for the link.
Efficiency is still a problem with peltier-effect devices. Check out e-bay
for the accompanying description of peltier device aluminum cooling plates:
"the new 300-Watt Peltiers could probably cool medium size refrigerators,
although less efficiently. And one 50-watt Peltier has enough cooling power
to cool 8 soda cans to about 40 degrees F, or anything else that'll fit into
the same space."
So the 300 watts works out to about 21 Amps, is that right? Might work with
a low-moderate heat load in the cockpit, but probably would take a while to
achieve a large delta T.
The beauty is in the simplicity, low cost and low parts count.
Do not archive
Mark Cochran
Sportsman #7050
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj
Merrill
Subject: AeroElectric-List: alternate air conditioning
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
<deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
These guys may have hit upon an excellent air
conditioning option that would work well in small aircraft.
I wonder how much electricity it takes?
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2841984
Really cool invention brings teens awards
Physics students: They came up with an environmentally friendly,
economical air conditioner
By Jessica Ravitz
The Salt Lake Tribune
Riverton High School students Tyler Lyon, left, and Daniel Winegar
won
Ricoh's Sustainable Development Award for their invention. (Danny Chan
La/The Salt Lake Tribune )
BLUFFDALE - The code name, Space Beast, was one they came up with in the
wee hours of the night.
Tyler Lyon, Daniel Winegar and Chad Thornley were overtired and
giddy as they tackled a science fair project. Their idea: Eliminate the
use of Freon in automobile air-conditioning systems by relying on the
Peltier effect - of course.
"We aren't planning our lives around making air conditioners," Lyon
explained. "We wanted to do something to help the environment and the
economy."
But what began as a Riverton High School physics class assignment
nearly two years ago has morphed into an award-winning, internationally
recognized invention.
Lyon and Winegar, two recent Riverton graduates - Thornley graduated
in 2004 and is now on an LDS Church mission - won the first-ever Ricoh
Sustainable Development Award in May when they competed against 1,400
other worldwide invitation-only entries at the Intel International
Science and Engineering Fair in Phoenix.
Aside from the $50,000 college scholarship the two 18-year-olds will
share, the budding engineers are jetting off to Japan today for a 10-day
visit on Ricoh's dime. The office equipment and electronics company, a
leader in the field of sustainable development, has invited the Utahns
to attend the World Expo, address Ricoh executives, tour their research
and development lab, meet with government officials - including the
Minister of the Environment - and sit down with Tokyo University professors.
"It's been a total, unbelievable dream," marveled Tyler's mom, Diane
Lyon, last week. "They're just typical boys. But when someone believes
in you, amazing things can happen."
Physics teacher Kari Lewis, who recently left Riverton High, said
trusting in Lyon and Winegar was easy.
"They came up with this idea . . . and they made it work," she said.
"It's a perfect solution to an incredible problem."
Today, the young inventors say, U.S. drivers use about 7.9 billion
gallons of fuel each year to run their air-conditioners, which draw
power from the engine. By adopting their contraption - which taps into
the electrical system, using fans to blow hot air through five Peltier
chips and then releasing cold air - they say the country stands to save
3.9 billion gallons of fuel annually, or about $10 billion based on
current gas prices.
Furthermore, the product would free drivers from Freon - which
despite improvements, remains an ozone-depleting chemical in current
air-conditioners. The Peltier chips, which they purchased on eBay for
$9.99 each, have a life span of 20 to 30 years and an unfaltering
cooling capacity. And like every component in the Space Beast, which can
be minimized in size to about 2 inches in width, the chips are recyclable.
As a young boy, Lyon's parents said he tore apart and reassembled
household electronics - CD players, clocks, an old stereo that didn't
work until he fixed it. And while Daniel's mom, LouAnn Winegar, was
grateful her son was "not a take-apart-person," she said her boy's love
for science, engineering and computers has been consistent.
"It's nice to see all of his years of interest and hard work being
recognized," she said.
The two-year process of fine-tuning, however, was not without its
glitches. When the teens were trying to convert a blow-dryer fan from AC
to DC power, a miswiring gave Lyon a doozy of a shock - "a low-enough
amp that it couldn't really stop my heart," he said. And there was that
computer power strip that they managed to ignite, before throwing it
outside in the snow, only to retrieve it two days later to recycle its
parts.
Despite the setbacks, and bouts of procrastination, the teens didn't
give up. When they weren't playing computer games, skiing, snowboarding
or, in Lyon's case, rock-climbing, they buckled down, sometimes working
through the night. Their focus nearly cost them graduation - they had to
scramble to make up work in other classes - but they accomplished what
others couldn't.
After they had already begun their work, Lyon and Winegar learned
about a 1964 General Motors analysis that explored the idea before the
car company concluded it wasn't possible.
Going in with open minds, however, the teens were not deterred and
pulled off what GM rejected.
"Nobody told them it couldn't be done," Robert Lyon, Tyler's dad, said.
The first time he felt a cold gust of air successfully come through
the system, Winegar said he remembers saying: "We may actually have
something here."
Looks like they do. A Salt Lake City attorney is working to secure a
patent. The Environmental Protection Agency called to express interest
Tuesday morning. And though repeated attempts to communicate with Gov.
Jon Huntsman Jr. have gone unanswered, high officials in Japan - an
ocean away - are awaiting the arrival of Riverton's young inventors.
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: "P" lead length |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:32:25 -0500, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> No length issues. You DO want to ground the shield at the engine end
> only . . . and I recommend you use
> the shield to PROVIDE ground at the switch end make no other
> connections at switch end as suggested in numerous
> other texts.
Bob -
Do you have a wiring diagram for this?
The reason I ask is that we wired the mags as shown in one of your
wirebook sheets and it does not seem to work. The mag stays grounded
regardless of the position of the toggle switch.
Using single conductor, shielded, 18AWG, it is wired: Conductor (p-lead)
from the stud on the mag to pin 2 of the 1-3 switch. Shield from pin 3 of
the switch to a screw on the mag.
I can send a .dwg or .pdf file if you wish.
Thanks,
John Schroeder
--
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | alternate air conditioning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Interesting. The technology certainly isn't new but the implementation is. I would expect it to use a fair amount of power. These have been used in fish tanks for some time. See <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid4902&inm1&N2004+113768+113565> for just one example.
One thing the article forgot to mention is it takes engine power to spin the
alternator and make the electricity that the thing uses. Now if it is more efficient
than the existing freon based system (doubtful) then we might have something.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wings (After OSH)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Subject: AeroElectric-List: alternate air conditioning
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
--> <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
These guys may have hit upon an excellent air conditioning option that
would work well in small aircraft.
I wonder how much electricity it takes?
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2841984
Really cool invention brings teens awards Physics students: They came up with an
environmentally friendly, economical air conditioner By Jessica Ravitz The Salt
Lake Tribune
Riverton High School students Tyler Lyon, left, and Daniel Winegar won
Ricoh's Sustainable Development Award for their invention. (Danny Chan
La/The Salt Lake Tribune )
BLUFFDALE - The code name, Space Beast, was one they came up with in the wee hours
of the night.
Tyler Lyon, Daniel Winegar and Chad Thornley were overtired and giddy as they
tackled a science fair project. Their idea: Eliminate the use of Freon in automobile
air-conditioning systems by relying on the Peltier effect - of course.
"We aren't planning our lives around making air conditioners," Lyon explained.
"We wanted to do something to help the environment and the economy."
But what began as a Riverton High School physics class assignment nearly two
years ago has morphed into an award-winning, internationally recognized invention.
Lyon and Winegar, two recent Riverton graduates - Thornley graduated in 2004
and is now on an LDS Church mission - won the first-ever Ricoh Sustainable Development
Award in May when they competed against 1,400 other worldwide invitation-only
entries at the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair in
Phoenix.
Aside from the $50,000 college scholarship the two 18-year-olds will share,
the budding engineers are jetting off to Japan today for a 10-day visit on Ricoh's
dime. The office equipment and electronics company, a leader in the field
of sustainable development, has invited the Utahns to attend the World Expo,
address Ricoh executives, tour their research and development lab, meet with
government officials - including the Minister of the Environment - and sit down
with Tokyo University professors.
"It's been a total, unbelievable dream," marveled Tyler's mom, Diane Lyon,
last week. "They're just typical boys. But when someone believes in you, amazing
things can happen."
Physics teacher Kari Lewis, who recently left Riverton High, said trusting
in Lyon and Winegar was easy.
"They came up with this idea . . . and they made it work," she said.
"It's a perfect solution to an incredible problem."
Today, the young inventors say, U.S. drivers use about 7.9 billion gallons
of fuel each year to run their air-conditioners, which draw power from the engine.
By adopting their contraption - which taps into the electrical system, using
fans to blow hot air through five Peltier chips and then releasing cold air
- they say the country stands to save
3.9 billion gallons of fuel annually, or about $10 billion based on current gas
prices.
Furthermore, the product would free drivers from Freon - which despite improvements,
remains an ozone-depleting chemical in current air-conditioners. The
Peltier chips, which they purchased on eBay for
$9.99 each, have a life span of 20 to 30 years and an unfaltering cooling capacity.
And like every component in the Space Beast, which can be minimized in size
to about 2 inches in width, the chips are recyclable.
As a young boy, Lyon's parents said he tore apart and reassembled household electronics
- CD players, clocks, an old stereo that didn't work until he fixed it.
And while Daniel's mom, LouAnn Winegar, was grateful her son was "not a take-apart-person,"
she said her boy's love for science, engineering and computers
has been consistent.
"It's nice to see all of his years of interest and hard work being recognized,"
she said.
The two-year process of fine-tuning, however, was not without its glitches.
When the teens were trying to convert a blow-dryer fan from AC to DC power, a
miswiring gave Lyon a doozy of a shock - "a low-enough amp that it couldn't really
stop my heart," he said. And there was that computer power strip that they
managed to ignite, before throwing it outside in the snow, only to retrieve
it two days later to recycle its parts.
Despite the setbacks, and bouts of procrastination, the teens didn't give up.
When they weren't playing computer games, skiing, snowboarding or, in Lyon's
case, rock-climbing, they buckled down, sometimes working through the night.
Their focus nearly cost them graduation - they had to scramble to make up work
in other classes - but they accomplished what others couldn't.
After they had already begun their work, Lyon and Winegar learned about a 1964
General Motors analysis that explored the idea before the car company concluded
it wasn't possible.
Going in with open minds, however, the teens were not deterred and pulled off
what GM rejected.
"Nobody told them it couldn't be done," Robert Lyon, Tyler's dad, said.
The first time he felt a cold gust of air successfully come through the system,
Winegar said he remembers saying: "We may actually have something here."
Looks like they do. A Salt Lake City attorney is working to secure a patent.
The Environmental Protection Agency called to express interest Tuesday morning.
And though repeated attempts to communicate with Gov.
Jon Huntsman Jr. have gone unanswered, high officials in Japan - an ocean away
- are awaiting the arrival of Riverton's young inventors.
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: alternate air conditioning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
According to some specs I found a Jumbo Peltier had a Qmax of 267Watts but
used 30amps at 16.7 volts = 501 watts so ball park 50% effective use of the
electricity. If you had about 4 of them working - would take out approx
1000 watts of heat from the air but at a cost of approx 120 amps!
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dj Merrill" <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: alternate air conditioning
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
> <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
> These guys may have hit upon an excellent air
> conditioning option that would work well in small aircraft.
> I wonder how much electricity it takes?
>
>
> http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2841984
>
> Really cool invention brings teens awards
> Physics students: They came up with an environmentally friendly,
> economical air conditioner
> By Jessica Ravitz
> The Salt Lake Tribune
>
>
> Riverton High School students Tyler Lyon, left, and Daniel Winegar
> won
> Ricoh's Sustainable Development Award for their invention. (Danny Chan
> La/The Salt Lake Tribune )
> BLUFFDALE - The code name, Space Beast, was one they came up with in the
> wee hours of the night.
> Tyler Lyon, Daniel Winegar and Chad Thornley were overtired and
> giddy as they tackled a science fair project. Their idea: Eliminate the
> use of Freon in automobile air-conditioning systems by relying on the
> Peltier effect - of course.
> "We aren't planning our lives around making air conditioners," Lyon
> explained. "We wanted to do something to help the environment and the
> economy."
> But what began as a Riverton High School physics class assignment
> nearly two years ago has morphed into an award-winning, internationally
> recognized invention.
> Lyon and Winegar, two recent Riverton graduates - Thornley graduated
> in 2004 and is now on an LDS Church mission - won the first-ever Ricoh
> Sustainable Development Award in May when they competed against 1,400
> other worldwide invitation-only entries at the Intel International
> Science and Engineering Fair in Phoenix.
> Aside from the $50,000 college scholarship the two 18-year-olds will
> share, the budding engineers are jetting off to Japan today for a 10-day
> visit on Ricoh's dime. The office equipment and electronics company, a
> leader in the field of sustainable development, has invited the Utahns
> to attend the World Expo, address Ricoh executives, tour their research
> and development lab, meet with government officials - including the
> Minister of the Environment - and sit down with Tokyo University
> professors.
> "It's been a total, unbelievable dream," marveled Tyler's mom, Diane
> Lyon, last week. "They're just typical boys. But when someone believes
> in you, amazing things can happen."
> Physics teacher Kari Lewis, who recently left Riverton High, said
> trusting in Lyon and Winegar was easy.
> "They came up with this idea . . . and they made it work," she said.
> "It's a perfect solution to an incredible problem."
> Today, the young inventors say, U.S. drivers use about 7.9 billion
> gallons of fuel each year to run their air-conditioners, which draw
> power from the engine. By adopting their contraption - which taps into
> the electrical system, using fans to blow hot air through five Peltier
> chips and then releasing cold air - they say the country stands to save
> 3.9 billion gallons of fuel annually, or about $10 billion based on
> current gas prices.
> Furthermore, the product would free drivers from Freon - which
> despite improvements, remains an ozone-depleting chemical in current
> air-conditioners. The Peltier chips, which they purchased on eBay for
> $9.99 each, have a life span of 20 to 30 years and an unfaltering
> cooling capacity. And like every component in the Space Beast, which can
> be minimized in size to about 2 inches in width, the chips are recyclable.
>
> As a young boy, Lyon's parents said he tore apart and reassembled
> household electronics - CD players, clocks, an old stereo that didn't
> work until he fixed it. And while Daniel's mom, LouAnn Winegar, was
> grateful her son was "not a take-apart-person," she said her boy's love
> for science, engineering and computers has been consistent.
> "It's nice to see all of his years of interest and hard work being
> recognized," she said.
> The two-year process of fine-tuning, however, was not without its
> glitches. When the teens were trying to convert a blow-dryer fan from AC
> to DC power, a miswiring gave Lyon a doozy of a shock - "a low-enough
> amp that it couldn't really stop my heart," he said. And there was that
> computer power strip that they managed to ignite, before throwing it
> outside in the snow, only to retrieve it two days later to recycle its
> parts.
> Despite the setbacks, and bouts of procrastination, the teens didn't
> give up. When they weren't playing computer games, skiing, snowboarding
> or, in Lyon's case, rock-climbing, they buckled down, sometimes working
> through the night. Their focus nearly cost them graduation - they had to
> scramble to make up work in other classes - but they accomplished what
> others couldn't.
> After they had already begun their work, Lyon and Winegar learned
> about a 1964 General Motors analysis that explored the idea before the
> car company concluded it wasn't possible.
> Going in with open minds, however, the teens were not deterred and
> pulled off what GM rejected.
> "Nobody told them it couldn't be done," Robert Lyon, Tyler's dad, said.
> The first time he felt a cold gust of air successfully come through
> the system, Winegar said he remembers saying: "We may actually have
> something here."
> Looks like they do. A Salt Lake City attorney is working to secure a
> patent. The Environmental Protection Agency called to express interest
> Tuesday morning. And though repeated attempts to communicate with Gov.
> Jon Huntsman Jr. have gone unanswered, high officials in Japan - an
> ocean away - are awaiting the arrival of Riverton's young inventors.
>
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
>
> "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Thanks to everyone, especially Bob, for pointing me to various autocad
drawings of panel hole sizes. Now, based on Bruce's warning, I need to go
and measure all my instruments to ensure they are "compliant".
Marty
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: alternate air conditioning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Mark Cochran wrote:
> So the 300 watts works out to about 21 Amps, is that right? Might work with
> a low-moderate heat load in the cockpit, but probably would take a while to
> achieve a large delta T.
Hmmm - perhaps might not be enough to cool the entire
cabin, but maybe it might be good enough just to be able to
blow some cool air on the pilot, and maybe the passenger too.
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Doublechecking before I cut metal |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Also, make sure you understand the 'behind the panel measurement
requirements and the dept of the insturments'. I got hit by one of these and
I paid a price to deal with it.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
----- Original Message -----
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone"
> <jrstone@insightbb.com>
>
> Richard,
> Don't cut yet. Keep working the plan. When you can draw it all out in
> detail and are happy with it and understand it all, cut your panel. Until
> that time, you risk having to redo it. I spent years monitoring this list,
> rereading the Aeroelectric connection before I was at the point of
> cutting.
> Good luck,
> Jim Stone
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Riley" <richard@RILEY.NET>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Doublechecking before I cut metal
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley
>> <richard@riley.net>
>>
>> I'm just about to start cutting metal for my instrument panel and wanted
>> to
>> do one, final sanity check.
>>
>> Configuration:
>>
>> Canard Pusher
>> Lycoming 540
>> L-60 and LR-3
>> SD-8
>> 2 lightspeed electronic ignitions
>> All electric panel
>>
>> 2 17 AH batteries, Figure Z-13 plus Z-30, sd 8 regulator set to 13 volts
>>
>> I believe I need holes in the panel for
>>
>> 1) DPDT DC power master switch (locking)
>> 2) SPST Aux power
>> 3) SPST momentary starter (pushbutton)
>> 4) SPST Main alt field (mini, locking)
>> 5) SPST Aux alt field (mini, locking)
>>
>> Am I correct so far? Any other switch holes I need for the power
>> system? Of course, I also have the functional switches - fuel pump,
>> lights, etc.
>>
>> What do I have to add to parallel the 2 batteries for starting?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Cherokee bouncing loadmeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jdalton77" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
My 1973 Cherokee 140 suffers from the "bouncing" load meter problem.
Load meter jumps to the right in a rhythm that I think is related to the
strobes but seems to happen even when the light is off.
It's been like that since I bought the plane a few years back. I've
heard a lot of "reason" for this to happen - but no consistent story.
There must be a real answer ....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Zeftronics vs B&C
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:52 AM 7/21/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Mather"
>--> <peter@mather.com>
>
>Bob
>
>The new rev A version appears to include LV unless I'm mis-interpreting
>the spec.
I've looked the spec sheet over at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Zeftronics/R15V00RevA-PIT.pdf
The way this is set up, I believe that "low volts" is inferred
by noting alternator shutdown. The low volts sensor is not an
independently powered monitor of actual bus voltage. The Zeftronics
implementation seems to be a more sophisticated version of the
alternator "idiot light" of years gone by.
I suspect the regulation and ovp features are just fine. I'd
still recommend a separate LV Warning system of some variety.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cherokee bouncing loadmeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
In a message dated 7/21/2005 9:31:35 PM Central Standard Time,
jdalton77@comcast.net writes:
My 1973 Cherokee 140 suffers from the "bouncing" load meter problem.
Load meter jumps to the right in a rhythm that I think is related to the
strobes but seems to happen even when the light is off.
My 140E had the same problem. Very common problem. Fixed it by installing a
new voltage regulator.
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 24
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| Subject: | Tach source for EIS |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" <jgswartout@earthlink.net>
Bob and others:
The tachometer function on my Grand Rapids Technologies Engine
Information System uses input from the electronic ignition (dual
P-mags). It only accepts one input. Should I wire only one of the
P-mags to the EIS, or both? That is, is there any reason to run a wire
from each of the ignitions with a switch to select which one supplies
rpm data to the EIS? Thanks.
John
Message 25
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| Subject: | alternate air conditioning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:39 PM 7/21/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
><rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Interesting. The technology certainly isn't new but the implementation
> is. I would expect it to use a fair amount of power. These have been
> used in fish tanks for some time. See
> <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid4902&inm1&N2004+113768+113565>
> for just one example.
>
> One thing the article forgot to mention is it takes engine power to
> spin the alternator and make the electricity that the thing uses. Now if
> it is more efficient than the existing freon based system (doubtful) then
> we might have something.
The last time I looked at Peltier coolers for a task,
it took somewhere around 70 watts of Peltier input power
to carry 10 watts of heat load across a 40C differential.
10w = 34 BTU. So if you're looking for the equivalent cooling
of, say 1/2 that of the smallest 115 window units (5500 BTU)
then 2750 BTU (800W) of cooling would load the ship's
power system to about 5600 watts or 400 amps in a 14v
system.
They might be better now but I suspect not so much better
that they're attractive for cabin cooling on aircraft . . .
or room cooling for houses either.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: "P" lead length |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:24 PM 7/21/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:32:25 -0500, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
><nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > No length issues. You DO want to ground the shield at the engine end
> > only . . . and I recommend you use
> > the shield to PROVIDE ground at the switch end make no other
> > connections at switch end as suggested in numerous
> > other texts.
>
>Bob -
>
>Do you have a wiring diagram for this?
>
>The reason I ask is that we wired the mags as shown in one of your
>wirebook sheets and it does not seem to work. The mag stays grounded
>regardless of the position of the toggle switch.
>
>Using single conductor, shielded, 18AWG, it is wired: Conductor (p-lead)
> from the stud on the mag to pin 2 of the 1-3 switch. Shield from pin 3 of
>the switch to a screw on the mag.
>
>I can send a .dwg or .pdf file if you wish.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Ignition/TogMagSw.pdf
Try disconnecting the switch leads entirely. You may have
shorted wiring between the switch and the magneto.
Bob . . .
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