---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/25/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - Re: P/N, source for microphone? (Werner Schneider) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: Hot fuel guage (Jack Eckdahl) 3. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: Hot fuel guage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:45 AM - Mic Balancing (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 5. 08:40 AM - Re: PTT coiled cord (Pascal Gosselin) 6. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Hot fuel guage (GMC) 7. 11:00 AM - Re: Z13 and switches () 8. 11:56 AM - Re: Hot fuel guage/George and Bob (Jack Eckdahl) 9. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Hot fuel guage/George and Bob (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 01:40 PM - Battery source(s) (mark supinski) 11. 01:45 PM - Re: PTT coiled cord (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 01:47 PM - Re: Mic Balancing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 01:57 PM - Wiring practice question (Neil K Clayton) 14. 01:59 PM - Re: Battery source(s) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 15. 02:43 PM - Re: PTT coiled cord (Terry Watson) 16. 03:54 PM - New Chapter 18 (mark supinski) 17. 04:39 PM - Re: Battery source(s) (Dave Morris) 18. 08:08 PM - D-SUB Wye Band-Aid? (r falstad) 19. 08:21 PM - D-sub crimper question (Neil K Clayton) 20. 09:02 PM - Re: D-sub crimper question (rv-9a-online) 21. 09:12 PM - Re: D-sub crimper question (Jim Jewell) 22. 09:26 PM - Z-32 (John Swartout) 23. 09:26 PM - Re: Built-in starter contactor/Z-22 (John Swartout) 24. 09:44 PM - Re: Battery source(s) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 25. 09:46 PM - Re: Wiring practice question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 26. 09:48 PM - Re: Battery source(s) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 27. 09:51 PM - Re: D-sub crimper question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 28. 10:00 PM - Re: D-sub crimper question (DonVS) 29. 11:23 PM - Lycoming Alternator Kit on Ebay (Gerry Holland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:06 AM PST US From: "Werner Schneider" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P/N, source for microphone? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" For a check, if your intercom/audiopanel is switched off and you still can communicate via the radio you would not need this extra wiring. br Werner (GMA 340 with failsave) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P/N, source for microphone? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 06:45 PM 7/24/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" >> >> >>My Icom A200 com radio needs a microphone. I will always be using >>headphones, but the manual for the radio says I should also have a >>microphone, either a low-impedance carbon mike or a dynamic mike, which >>requires a pre-amp. Microphone impedance is 600 ohms. As this device >>will primarily be unwanted clutter in the cockpit, I would like to get >>the cheapest mike that will function if ever needed. Any suggestions? >>Thank you all. > > What they're referring to is a hand-held microphone > from days of yore . . . John Wayne had really classy > hand-held microphone technique in "Flying Tigers" back > in '42 and we all tried to follow in the Duke's footsteps > since. But a few years ago, the hand-held mic started > disappearing from the airplanes. I don't think the rentals > I fly even have them in the cockpit any more. > > The concern was that for early intercom systems, mic > audio for the comm transmitter was handled through > active electronics in the audio system. Loss of the > audio system could cause one to lose the pilot's voice > audio path to any or all transmitters . . . maybe the > headphones too! > > The prudent installer of such systems provided a "failsafe" > path from pilots headphones and mic to at least one comm > transceiver. This is illustrated on page 1.11 of > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-700E.pdf > > where in the lower left corner of the wiring diagram, you > see "failsafe" jacks for microphone and headset wiring. > When things are not going well with the audio distribution > system, the pilot can unplug his headset from the normal > jacks and plug into failsafe jacks for completion > of the flight. > > Modern intercoms provide a relay that will hard-wire > the pilots headset to a comm radio in the event of > power failure to the intercomm for whatever reason. > If your intercom has this feature, you're done. If not, > you can add failsafe jacks as illustrated so that > you can easily bypass the audio system as needed. With > two headsets in the airplane a need to carry > a "second microphone" for redundancy is covered. > Failsafe jacks cover the rest of the hazards > so the microphone mentioned in the Icom manual becomes > extra redundant and un-necessary. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:17 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Hot fuel guage From: "Jack Eckdahl" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Eckdahl" Bob: Thanks for the reply. Interesting that you mentioned an overvoltage condition being the cause of the instrument that you mentioned. You may rememeber a few weeks ago I had a overvoltage condition on an internally regulated alternator. I started and within 15-20 seconds shut down my engine after noticing the voltmeter peg at maximum. I then removed the alternator, had it checked and found that the regulator was bad along with some other problem. My problem with the fuel gauge showed up on the first start-up after the overvoltage incident after I installed the new alternator. All other guages, radios seem to be fine. Maybe the OV condition caused the fuel gauge to simmer and I didn't notice it before because I shut down the engine?? What do you think? thanks again, Jack ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Hot fuel guage --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:26 AM 7/25/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Eckdahl" > >Bob: Thanks for the reply. Interesting that you mentioned an >overvoltage condition being the cause of the instrument that you >mentioned. You may rememeber a few weeks ago I had a overvoltage >condition on an internally regulated alternator. I started and within >15-20 seconds shut down my engine after noticing the voltmeter peg at >maximum. I then removed the alternator, had it checked and found that >the regulator was bad along with some other problem. My problem with >the fuel gauge showed up on the first start-up after the overvoltage >incident after I installed the new alternator. All other guages, radios >seem to be fine. Maybe the OV condition caused the fuel gauge to simmer >and I didn't notice it before because I shut down the engine?? What do >you think? thanks again, Jack Excellent data point. Yes, your ov event would offer a strong suggestion of root cause. Given that your fuel gage was operational for a period of time before the ov event and croaked afterwards is a very powerful cause/effect linkage. Odds are that simple replacement of the smoked gage will be all that's necessary. I'd like to get the smoked one if you don't need it for anything else. For the rest of the folks out there . . . here's another isolated, rare, but not zero-risk incident involving a runaway in an internally regulated alternator. I've fielded a lot of tomatoes and cabbages over this issue but I'll have to continue to recommend (1) the BEST alternator installation for aircraft use external regulators with ov protection either built in or as an ancillary device or (2) some means of adding external ov protection to the internally regulated alternator is a GOOD thing to consider. Jack, do I recall correctly that you only had 30 hours on this airplane when the alternator launched for the moon? Also, for the next few hours, be especially watchful for damage to other systems that may not have surfaced yet. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:24 AM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mic Balancing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" I recently purchased a new Lightspeed XCc headset for the passenger side of my plane, to go along with the Pilot 17-79 I use myself. I tried it out on a solo test flight and it worked very nicely for the price. However, when flying with both headsets in use, I discovered that at high power settings, the VOX setting on the intercom that works for either headset alone produces nearly constant open mic with both mic's plugged in. If I turn up the squelch on the intercom VOX, I can remove the noise and get it so that the pilot-side mic works in intercom mode, but the pax-side won't break squelch. If I adjust it so that I can hear the passenger in intercom mode, the wind/engine noise reappears annoyingly and intermittently. At lower speeds and lower power settings, this problem disappears. The Lightspeed headset has a mic gain adjustment screw. Is it possible to reduce the problem by changing the mic gain on one headset? Is this a "fly it and try it" methodology? Are there other ways to handle this problem (besides unplugging the passenger mic)? Andy Elliott N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ That's "One Hot Yankee" http://members.cox.net/n481hy/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:59 AM PST US From: Pascal Gosselin Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PTT coiled cord --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pascal Gosselin At 01:48 AM 7/21/2005, jlundberg@cox.net wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > >Does anyone know where to buy coiled PTT wire. Its the cord that goes >from the PTT switch on the yoke to the mike key terminal on the mic jack. Olympic Wire is the company that makes this stuff. http://www.olympicwire.com/ I bought 12 conductor coiled wire from them through a distributor, ALLIED ELECTRONICS. http://www.alliedelec.com/ If all you need is a PTT the cheapeast solution might be to sacrifice a cheap portable PTT. -Pascal +---------------------------+ Pascal Gosselin pascal@aeroteknic.com tel. (450) 676-6299 fax. (450) 676-2760 cell. (514) 298-3343 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:20 AM PST US From: GMC Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Hot fuel guage --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: GMC Hi Jack Can you give us some data on the alternator, new, rebuilt, used - make & size. We may want to avoid that type. Thanks George in Langley BC Do not archive >At 09:26 AM 7/25/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Eckdahl" >> >>You may rememeber a few weeks ago I had a overvoltage >>condition on an internally regulated alternator. I started and within >>15-20 seconds shut down my engine after noticing the voltmeter peg at >>maximum. >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z13 and switches --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ---- pgroell@chello.fr wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Hello Bob and readers, > > I'm still in the very early planning stages of building a RV-7A, but as I'm stuck do to workshop availability, and I try to plan ahead with systems, etc... > > I really like the architecture of Z13 and have questions about the switches. > > 1) As I understand, the ESS BUS switch and AUX ALT FIELD switch are closed after MAIN ALT failure and after the MASTER SWITCH is opened. Would it be of interest to have the two functions (ESS BUS close and AUX ALT FIELD ON) combined in one switch . First position would connect the ESS BUS, second position would close the AUX ALT FIELD switch. > > 2) Both alternators' circuits are equipped with shunts to "read" their load, as the AUX ALT will only be running in case of MAIN ALT failure, the load needs only to be read in this case. To be able to use only one instrument would it make sense to wire the circuit so that the instrument would read MAIN ALT load when MAIN ALT is running and AUX ALT load when AUX ALT is brought on line (may be with the AUX ALT FIELD switch). I know this may interfere with question 1 above. > > Maybe these questions don't make any sense or I have been unable to find the answers. > I'm trying to find a way to have the smallest amount of switches to throw in case of MAIN ALT failure. > > Best regards > > Pascal Pascal, Combining those two switches into one switch only makes sense if panel space is critically tight. The master/alternator switch is a double pole, double throw switch as Bob designed the circuit. To incorporate the Endurance (formerly called Essential) bus into this switch would require a triple pole, double throw switch. These are available, but are more expensive. Another down side is that if your new, combined switch fails away from home, you will be hard pressed to find a replacement quickly. I suggest that if panel space permits, you stick with the setup as designed by Bob. Charlie Kuss ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:26 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hot fuel guage/George and Bob From: "Jack Eckdahl" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Eckdahl" George: The alternator that failed was a nippon denso, 60 amp, internally regulated. I'm not sure that my experience should cause others to avoid this unit. I know that hundreds of airplanes are flying successfully with them. However, if you read Bob's most recent post, you might decide to avoid all internal regulated alternators. Bob: As soon as I pull the fuel guage, I'll send it too you. What address? thanks, jack ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hot fuel guage/George and Bob --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 02:57 PM 7/25/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Eckdahl" > >George: The alternator that failed was a nippon denso, 60 amp, >internally regulated. I'm not sure that my experience should cause >others to avoid this unit. I know that hundreds of airplanes are flying >successfully with them. However, if you read Bob's most recent post, >you might decide to avoid all internal regulated alternators. Just for newcomers to this discussion . . . I would not discourage anyone from taking advantage of the very high reliability offered by modern, internally regulated alternators . . . your risk of suffering the alternator's ultimate insult is indeed very low. Van's assertions that thousands are flying trouble free for a remarkable history of satisfactory service life are accurate. The odds are definitely in your favor . . . especially if your particular alternator selection allows you to directly control it while being turned by the engine. I'll add that my personal mission is to offer builders the best I know how to do without suffering a huge budget crunch. Yes, B&C wants an arm and a leg for their products but in comparison to the total cost of your project, it's not a big jump proportionately. So I'll continue to offer my best recommendations but please don't assume that because I cannot recommend a particular philosophy or technique that I'm suggesting it's an evil or extraordinarily risky thing to do. >Bob: As soon as I pull the fuel guage, I'll send it too you. What >address? thanks, jack 6936 Bainbridge Road Wichita, KS 67226-1008 Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:30 PM PST US From: mark supinski Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery source(s) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mark supinski Hi All- I'm trying to find vendors for a dual-battery setup, a-la Z-19. I can easily find the type of batteries I'm looking for on the B&C website, but I'm having trouble finding other vendors, Can someone point me at other source(s) for appropriate batteris? Note - Bob is exactly right in the 'connection -- figuring out what type of battery a given vendor is offering is a trick & a half. Hopefully you'll be suggesting sites that engage in 'plain speak' ! Thanks, Mark ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:02 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PTT coiled cord --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:37 AM 7/25/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pascal Gosselin > > >At 01:48 AM 7/21/2005, jlundberg@cox.net wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > > > > >Does anyone know where to buy coiled PTT wire. Its the cord that goes > >from the PTT switch on the yoke to the mike key terminal on the mic jack. > >Olympic Wire is the company that makes this stuff. > >http://www.olympicwire.com/ > >I bought 12 conductor coiled wire from them through a distributor, ALLIED >ELECTRONICS. > >http://www.alliedelec.com/ > > >If all you need is a PTT the cheapeast solution might be to sacrifice a >cheap portable PTT. I discovered another off-the-shelf source of small diameter coil cord: Cell phone chargers for your car. I just pitched a couple of charger cords I don't use any more. They would have had a two-conductor cord suitable for PTT. If you need more functions, the cell phone charger I have now is a universal device with personality modules that plug in at the phone interface. The coil cord seems to have 4 or more conductors in it. When I trash my current phones, I'll let you know! In any case, there are dozens of sources for new and/or junk coil cords that can be pressed into service on your airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:40 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mic Balancing --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:41 AM 7/25/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" > > >I recently purchased a new Lightspeed XCc headset for the passenger side >of my plane, to go along with the Pilot 17-79 I use myself. I tried it >out on a solo test flight and it worked very nicely for the price. > >However, when flying with both headsets in use, I discovered that at high >power settings, the VOX setting on the intercom that works for either >headset alone produces nearly constant open mic with both mic's plugged >in. If I turn up the squelch on the intercom VOX, I can remove the noise >and get it so that the pilot-side mic works in intercom mode, but the >pax-side won't break squelch. If I adjust it so that I can hear the >passenger in intercom mode, the wind/engine noise reappears annoyingly and >intermittently. At lower speeds and lower power settings, this problem >disappears. > >The Lightspeed headset has a mic gain adjustment screw. Is it possible to >reduce the problem by changing the mic gain on one headset? Is this a >"fly it and try it" methodology? > >Are there other ways to handle this problem (besides unplugging the >passenger mic)? The problem you cite is very common when different brands of mic/headset are combined into a single system. The best intercoms have independent mic circuits that will allow individual adjustment for vox thresholds and mic sensitivity. The system you have apparently does not have that feature and there's no easy solution that I can deduce. Keeping headsets paired for brand and model number is the only way to improve probability of success. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:08 PM PST US aeroelectric-list@matronics.com From: Neil K Clayton Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring practice question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton I bought the PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom. Wiring is pretty straight-forward, but I need to eyeball one aspect of the installation. It could turn out to be a real rats nest if not done properly. The wire shields all come into the 25 pin Sub-D, connect to each other, and together with some core wires, then a single ground wire goes into the Sub-D through pin #1. How on earth do all those shields mate together? Can someone point me to a picture of the actual installation? Many thanks Neil C ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:52 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery source(s) From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I got all mine from www.Batteries.com I use the SLA (sealed lead acid) type. These are definatly not the same as the Odyssey batteries but quite a bit cheaper. When I was considering the single alt/two battery setup I was going to get an Odyssey for my main batt (therby using its low internal resistnce for max cranking) and a SLA for the secomdary. I been using these for the last 6 years on my current airplane. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark supinski Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery source(s) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mark supinski --> Hi All- I'm trying to find vendors for a dual-battery setup, a-la Z-19. I can easily find the type of batteries I'm looking for on the B&C website, but I'm having trouble finding other vendors, Can someone point me at other source(s) for appropriate batteris? Note - Bob is exactly right in the 'connection -- figuring out what type of battery a given vendor is offering is a trick & a half. Hopefully you'll be suggesting sites that engage in 'plain speak' ! Thanks, Mark ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:19 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: PTT coiled cord --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" I was going to get a free one for whoever was asking yesterday, but a car was parked with a tire on one end and I knew that about the time I whipped out my Leatherman (tm) and snipped it off, the owner would show up and demand restitution. Terry Do not archive > >Does anyone know where to buy coiled PTT wire. Its the cord that goes > >from the PTT switch on the yoke to the mike key terminal on the mic jack. > I discovered another off-the-shelf source of small diameter coil cord: Cell phone chargers for your car. (snip) In any case, there are dozens of sources for new and/or junk coil cords that can be pressed into service on your airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:18 PM PST US From: mark supinski Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Chapter 18 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mark supinski I've read the new chapter 18 on audio panels, and it hits most of my issues right on the head. The only thing it lacks is a picture of the end result in terms of what is installed on the panel. Here is what I am trying to tie together: Comm1: (Garmin 250XL GPS/Comm) Comm 2: (VAL 760) Intercom: Sigtronics SPA 600 with optional stereo music module Warning: Redish stall warner (have to create tone generator per chapter 18) Music: Sirius satellite radio BX-2000 Audio selector panel My basic question is - is it worth it (or even possible) to use the BX-2000, or would I be better off to simply create something on my own per chapter 18? The BX-2000 has lots of selections which I would have no intention of using - so it fails the complexity proposed in ch 18... On the other hand, the audio isolator presented in ch 18 is mono only it appears. As an aside, I wish there were a panel "after" drawing in Chapter 18 to compare against the notional audio selector which is presented early in the chapter. Help help! Mark ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:05 PM PST US From: Dave Morris Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery source(s) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris Try DigiKey, for instance http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=769462&Row=408596&Site=US Dave Morris At 03:39 PM 7/25/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mark supinski > > >Hi All- > >I'm trying to find vendors for a dual-battery setup, a-la Z-19. I can >easily find the type of batteries I'm looking for on the B&C website, >but I'm having trouble finding other vendors, Can someone point me at >other source(s) for appropriate batteris? > >Note - Bob is exactly right in the 'connection -- figuring out what >type of battery a given vendor is offering is a trick & a half. >Hopefully you'll be suggesting sites that engage in 'plain speak' ! > >Thanks, > >Mark > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:14 PM PST US From: "r falstad" Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-SUB Wye Band-Aid? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "r falstad" I just finished what I think is a very nice harness between my Ameri-King AK-350 altitude encoder and my Garmin GTX-320 transponder. Then I looked at the installation instructions for my Garmin GNC-250XL Comm/GPS only to discover that the Comm/GPS wants altitude codes from the encoder, as well. The altitude encoder cable end is a 15 pin male D-Sub with female pins, the transponder cable end is a 25-pin male D-Sub with female pins, and the Comm/GPS is looking for a cable end with a 26-pin HD-DSUB. I've been trying to crimp everything using the machined pins from B&C but can't fit two 22 AWG wires into one pin (no surprise there). I could probably solder two 22 AWG wires into the solder cups of a D-Sub connector. So here's my current thinking: Make a "wye" with one leg terminating in a 15-pin female D-Sub with male pins to mate with the transponder cable. The second leg of the wye would be a 26-pin HD-DSUB to match the back of the Comm/GPS. The connector between the two legs would be a 15-pin male D-Sub with female pins to match the altitude encoder. I'd have to go ahead and solder two wires into nine of the solder cups on this connector (i.e., A1, A2, A4, B1, B2, B4, C1, C2 and C4). Will the pins for the HD-DSUB accept 22 AWG wires? Does this lash up sound like a plan? Thanks and Best regards, Bob ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:43 PM PST US aeroelectric-list@matronics.com From: Neil K Clayton Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-sub crimper question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton The D-sub connector that came with my PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom has pins that are not stamped, but seem to be tiny brass tubes with colors on the outside. I'll bet there's a crimping tool for these types of pins, but I'm darned if I can find it. The PS Eng manual says use "AMP 661966-1" tool, but neither Digikey or Mouser carries such a beast. Can anyone help, pls? Thanks Neil ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:50 PM PST US From: rv-9a-online Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D-sub crimper question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online Neil, here are a couple of sources: Affordable Panel part numbers: www.affordablepanels.com BC-S01 machined sockets BC-P01 machined pins APT-010 insertion/removal tool APT-006 machined pin crimp tool Steinair part numbers: www.steinair.com SA-1017 machined sockets SA-1018 machined pins SAT-023 insertion/removal tool SAT-004 machined pin crimp tool Vern Little RV-9A Neil K Clayton wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton > >The D-sub connector that came with my PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom >has pins that are not stamped, but seem to be tiny brass tubes with >colors on the outside. > >I'll bet there's a crimping tool for these types of pins, but I'm >darned if I can find it. > >The PS Eng manual says use "AMP 661966-1" tool, but neither Digikey >or Mouser carries such a beast. > >Can anyone help, pls? >Thanks >Neil > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:39 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D-sub crimper question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Neil, Go go to B&C Speciality's site : http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#RCT-1 Scroll down the page to: D-Sub Machined Pins Crimp Tool I think this tool is what you need. The professional version of this tool is way more money than You will likely want to spend. Isn't wiring fun |;-} Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil K Clayton" Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-sub crimper question > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton > > > The D-sub connector that came with my PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom > has pins that are not stamped, but seem to be tiny brass tubes with > colors on the outside. > > I'll bet there's a crimping tool for these types of pins, but I'm > darned if I can find it. > > The PS Eng manual says use "AMP 661966-1" tool, but neither Digikey > or Mouser carries such a beast. > > Can anyone help, pls? > Thanks > Neil > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:48 PM PST US From: "John Swartout" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-32 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" Bob, I note that in Z-32, the wire from the S704-1 E-Bus Alternate Feed Relay to the Endurance Bus does not include a Fusible Link, unlike the Z13/8 drawing between the E-Bus and the Alt. Feed Switch. Should it be there? Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:48 PM PST US From: "John Swartout" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Built-in starter contactor/Z-22 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" Bob, I'm figuring to use Z13/8 with Z-22 for my Sky-Tec Flyweight permanent magnet starter with onboard solenoid. In Note 10 you recommend locating the field breaker for the main alternator (L40 with LR-3 in my case) not on the panel but as close as possible to the starter contactor. My starter RELAY will be on the forward side of the firewall. This would make it impossible to pull the breaker from the pilot's seat in case of alternator troubles. But if the main alternator died, I would still like to be able to start the engine if I am stuck 400 miles out in the bush, so I plan to use the progressive transfer, 2-10 style master switch discussed in Note 22. It is not clear to me whether it would still be possible to start the engine if the L40 main alternator is disabled. Does it matter that there is no jumper from the starter solenoid hot terminal to the B-lead of the SD-8? And should the wire size from the pushbutton starter to the S704-1 relay be the same size as it would be for a starter contactor, i.e. 20AWG? Thank you once again for your generous assistance. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Built-in starter contactor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:11 AM 6/12/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" > > >Bob, on May 9th you replied, in part, to jerry@mc.net: > > >What you describe will function electrically. If that system > is attractive to you, consider using the built-in starter contactor > that comes with most modern starters. Use the boost relay > circuit shown in Figure Z-22. Then jumper alternator b-lead > to the starter contactor hot terminal using a Maxi-Fuse HHX inline > holder. See page 13 of > of >http://www.bussmann.com/shared/library/catalogs/Buss_Auto-Fuse_Cat.pdf > > > Maxi fuses can be found on page 3. Use MAX60 fuse on 40A alternator, > MAX80 on a 60A alternator. Eliminate alternator loadmeter feature. > The boost relay can mount on firewall. No new hardware bolted > to engine. > > > Bob . . . > > >My Sky-Tec starter is said to "feature an integrated starter solenoid >for homebuilt applications not wishing to install a separate firewall >solenoid." > > >I assume a starter solenoid is the same thing as a starter contactor. >Can you discuss why one might choose to have another starter contactor >if the starter has one built in? See http://aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf The extraordinary inrush currents common to modern starter designs that caused extraordinary wear on the start switch contacts of the ACS510 off-l-r-both-start keyswitch and prompted an AD to add a diode across the contactor coil. I prefer NOT to subject the ACS510 or any other panel mounted switch to this stress and have recommended an auxiliary starter contactor as illustrated in all of the Z-figures -OR- use of a boost relay as depicted in figure Z-22 of http://aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf which not only cures (1) a run-on problem with SOME PM starters when using the on-board contactor (2) but isolates the panel mounted starter control from the high current requirements of the starter contactor. By the way, if you ARE using a PM starter then figure Z-22 may be the recommended control philosophy. Some of these starters exhibit a delayed pinion engagement quirk when back-emf during spin-down of the deenergized motor keeps the pinion extended. These starters should be either wired with ROBUST starter push buttons and heavier than usual control wires (recommend 16AWG and 10A fuse) -OR- per figure Z-22. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery source(s) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 02:39 PM 7/25/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mark supinski > > >Hi All- > >I'm trying to find vendors for a dual-battery setup, a-la Z-19. I can >easily find the type of batteries I'm looking for on the B&C website, >but I'm having trouble finding other vendors, Can someone point me at >other source(s) for appropriate batteris? > >Note - Bob is exactly right in the 'connection -- figuring out what >type of battery a given vendor is offering is a trick & a half. >Hopefully you'll be suggesting sites that engage in 'plain speak' ! > >Thanks, Where do you live? In any medium size town (300K or more) there are usually corner Batteries-R-Us stores. There are a half dozen in Wichita. You're looking for a form-fit- function replacement for a 17 a.h. RG battery like: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Panasonic/lc-rd1217p.pdf Walk into the battery store and see what they've got before you spend money on shipping for so large a hunk of lead. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring practice question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:55 PM 7/25/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton > > >I bought the PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom. > >Wiring is pretty straight-forward, but I need to eyeball one aspect >of the installation. >It could turn out to be a real rats nest if not done properly. > >The wire shields all come into the 25 pin Sub-D, connect to each >other, and together with some core wires, then a single ground wire >goes into the Sub-D through pin #1. > >How on earth do all those shields mate together? > >Can someone point me to a picture of the actual installation? > >Many thanks >Neil C Sure . . . See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery source(s) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:59 PM 7/25/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > >I got all mine from www.Batteries.com I use the SLA (sealed lead acid) >type. These are definatly not the same as the Odyssey batteries but >quite a bit cheaper. > >When I was considering the single alt/two battery setup I was going to >get an Odyssey for my main batt (therby using its low internal resistnce >for max cranking) and a SLA for the secomdary. > >I been using these for the last 6 years on my current airplane. If they're SLA, SVLA, RG, or SE batteries, then they're the same chemistry and basic techology as the Odyssey. Odyssey is a thin plate device offering exceptional cranking current . . . but it's not a magic battery by any stretch of the imagination. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:50 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D-sub crimper question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:21 PM 7/25/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton > > >The D-sub connector that came with my PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom >has pins that are not stamped, but seem to be tiny brass tubes with >colors on the outside. > >I'll bet there's a crimping tool for these types of pins, but I'm >darned if I can find it. > >The PS Eng manual says use "AMP 661966-1" tool, but neither Digikey >or Mouser carries such a beast. that puppy is EXPENSIVE. B&C has one at a fraction of the price at http://www.bandc.biz It's their catalog number RCT-3 and looks like this . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/rct-3.jpg and installs pins like . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/RCT-3_Male.jpg Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:34 PM PST US From: "DonVS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: D-sub crimper question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" Neil, These are mil-spec pins. The crimper is about $350.00 from McDanials tool. The one that B&C sells works fine for far less cash. Bob N told the class that I attended that there were some problems with the early B&C tools but that they had been corrected. I would suggest that you do not buy a used tool as it might one of the defective ones. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Neil K Clayton aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-sub crimper question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil K Clayton The D-sub connector that came with my PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom has pins that are not stamped, but seem to be tiny brass tubes with colors on the outside. I'll bet there's a crimping tool for these types of pins, but I'm darned if I can find it. The PS Eng manual says use "AMP 661966-1" tool, but neither Digikey or Mouser carries such a beast. Can anyone help, pls? Thanks Neil ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:14 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lycoming Alternator Kit on Ebay From: Gerry Holland --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland FYI I spotted a Lycoming Alternator Kit on Ebay at starting bid at $199. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LYCOMING-HOMEBUILT-AIRCRAFT-ALTERNATOR-KIT_W0 QQitemZ4564658670QQcategoryZ26437QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Ensure the whole URL copied to Browser Thought someone may be in the market to buy. Regards Gerry