Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/06/05 (ldodgesr@mmm.com)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: Re:Real data on OVP/etc (disinterested?) Bob (Chuck Jensen)
3. 08:36 AM - Re: Re:Real data on OVP/etc (disinterested?) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
4. 12:56 PM - Re: New/rebuilt Alternators IGN wire ()
5. 06:26 PM - Rotax (Bill Czygan)
6. 08:58 PM - Headset/Microphone jack bushings (John Swartout)
7. 09:14 PM - Re: Headset/Microphone jack bushings (Wayne Sweet)
8. 11:14 PM - Alternators, OVP, GMCJET, Eric, Paul. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/06/05 |
14, 2004) at 08/08/2005 08:06:45 AM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ldodgesr@mmm.com
Personally, I like the format. It opens quickly with minimal internet
facilities and you can get to the pictures and free downloads from Bob if
you want them. What a great deal!!!!!!!!!!
Larry H. Dodge
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re:Real data on OVP/etc (disinterested?) |
Bob
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Gerry,
Why watch SNL when you can read Paul's posts instead. They are on the
far side of wild--and sometimes rise to the level of just plain
hilarious. To call them entertaining just doesn't give them their due,
misspellings and all.
Such expansive rants are rare and to be read with delight. And, I
predict more in the future, despites promises of cessation. The only
permanent cure would be a stiff shot of J.J. Kool Aid.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
Holland
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Real data on OVP/etc (disinterested?)
Bob
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland
<gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
What was all that about! and what caused it?
There is enough condescension here to make a person sick.
Do us a favour and the bandwidth on this subject.... summarise it or go
for
a long walk!
Do not archive .....it just isn't worth it!
Gerry Holland
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re:Real data on OVP/etc (disinterested?) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Just make sue the alternator has all the appropriate connections BEFORE
starting the engine, and don't disconnect anything until after the
engine has stopped.
The way this is normally done in a car if the B lead is permanently
connected to the battery and the field is switched on/off thru the
ignition switch. That's why you get the red charge light come on when
you first turn the ignition.
This may be achieved the same way in the airplane (using Bob's Z
figures) by connecting all the alternator connections to the engine side
of the Master contactor, except in the case you have a means of
disconnecting the whole alternator if the thing catches fire by turning
off the master.
By default batteries are always "ON" the alt gets connected thru the
Master contactor and normally is not turned off until after the engine
has stopped turning.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mickey Coggins
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Real data on OVP/etc (disinterested?)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
--> <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> By using a normal procedure of manually switching the alternator ON
> after starting and OFF before shut down, you forced an abrupt ON/OFF
> thru the regulator. This is known to cause grief. (Read below-The IC
> chip inside the alternator is a microprocessor and its internal
> protections only work if it is powered during engine start and stop.)
> ... ND alternators have an IC chip that provides many safety and fault
> protection functions including OV protection. In fact this
> microprocessor chip may have thousands of transistors VS. a
> Plain-Jane external VR with 2 or 4 transistors. Therefore doing abrupt
> things repeatedly stresses the chip overtime. It just was not designed
> to be used like that. You got away with it for a while, but eventually
> is started to fail (with out dramatic affect I might add).
>
I had not heard of this before. Are you saying that I should make sure
the alternator is on whenever the batteries are on?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New/rebuilt Alternators IGN wire |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Kevin:
Good Point in the event of an electrical fire you need to turn off the system,
excellent point. My comment that you would not want to turn a good alternator
off in-flight should be modified to include, except in the case of a fire. However
I think you need to remove BAT power as well. In some kit aircraft (and GA
aircraft in general) the reliance on electrical power makes turning the master
BAT off impossible because the engine will quit or the cockpit instruments
will blank. Serious considerations must be made when planning for an electrically
dependent engine and/or instruments. The only way is a separate electrical
system (at least a battery) that drives the min critical items. How you parallel
them (diode) is addressed in Bob's book.
Electrical fire is one of the more serious checklist on a jet liner and the SwissAir
tragedy illustrates how serious it can be. There are many many buss on a
Jet. The checklist calls for you to manually turn off all less critical buss-es
off (utility bus), after you put on O2 mask and goggles. That still does not
mean the electrical fire will be extinguished, since items are still powered,
especially in the cockpit. Than if needed you are told to FIND the source and
pull individual breakers. Lets just say you pray you never have this situation.
I don't know how many breakers I would get pulled, since I would be on the
ground ASAP. In theory you could turn everything off (AC GENS) and fly on BAT
power only, which means one stand-by AI (w/ loc/gs needles), AS and ALT, Radio/Nav,
cockpit dome light and electric controls. All glass would be dead (unless
you buy an option with extra batteries to keep the captains glass lit).
Thanks George
Time: 04:25:23 AM PST US
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New/rebuilt Alternators IGN wire
(Was: real
data on ovp/etc)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
<khorton01@rogers.com>
The only way to remove all electrical power in most archetures is to
shut down the alternator and open the battery contactor. Even if you
aren't worried about an OV event, you should consider the smoke in
the cockpit case, as it could kill you, even if you are flying VFR.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
---------------------------------
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bill Czygan <bczygan@yahoo.com>
I am interested in creating an electrical system for a Rotax 503 points ignition
single carb engine. What changes from the system described on this list, would
be required. The aircraft will be an open type aircraft so weatherproofing
is important as well.
Bill Czygan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Headset/Microphone jack bushings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" <jgswartout@earthlink.net>
Dear List:
It seems that the jacks supplied with my intercom came without the
flanged insulating bushings needed to ensure isolation from the metal
airframe. Can someone suggest a source?
John
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Headset/Microphone jack bushings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
I found a source and had to order 100. Send a prepaid envelope and I will
slip as many as you need and return to you.
Wayne Sweet
1520 Salinas Highway
Monterey, Ca 93940
Oh, put a note to remind me what you need. I am a bit forgetful.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Swartout" <jgswartout@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Headset/Microphone jack bushings
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout"
> <jgswartout@earthlink.net>
>
> Dear List:
>
>
> It seems that the jacks supplied with my intercom came without the
> flanged insulating bushings needed to ensure isolation from the metal
> airframe. Can someone suggest a source?
>
>
> John
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Alternators, OVP, GMCJET, Eric, Paul. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Ok GMCJET, Eric and Paul:
You all seem to eluding to something just as good or better than what Bob
has to offer with his externally regulated alternator and OVP. GREAT, why
don't each of you explain your COMPLETE configurations (IN PLAIN ENGLISH)
here on this list. That way, builders who are deep into the wiring stage can
make up their minds and maybe save a little money? I'm currently in that
stage and have been following this thread for a LONGGGGGG TIME hoping that
SOMEONE would produce the new cheaper, better, simpler solution for the
externally regulated and controlled alternator with OVP. I returned the IR
alternator that Van's supplied with my firewall forward kit because of
threads on this list. So far I haven't really heard anything that makes me
want to buy it back.
I HAVE TO DECIDE very soon now whether to go ahead with my decision to buy a
B&C alternator and ER with OVP like I changed my mind to do. Do I WANT to
spend $800 dollars for these two very common items that can be had in any
autoparts store for hundreds less?! Hell no! I'd rather spend 1/3 that much
and use the rest for avgas on my upcoming first flight. But this little bug
keeps nagging at me and I don't want a runaway alternator taking out the
$15,000.00 worth of electronic equipment in my panel (even if it is DO-160
certified). I know it happens only rarely but it DOES happen. I personally
know of people who've had this occur in both aircraft and automobiles. All
cases resulted in massive amounts of smoke behind the panel and expensive
repair bills.
So far I've heard bits and pieces from Mr. Messinger but there still seems
to be more ranting than actual solutions from him and I'm beginning to
wonder if he really wants to solve this problem. Eric Jones is not quite so
antagonistic but sides with Paul, which is fine, if Paul has a solution that
works. Eric has a reason to keep the information to himself though, and
that is because of his business. He likes to take designs from everyone
else, market them as his own and sell them at aviation high prices. That's
fine too Eric, we're a capitalist society, BTW if you are going to sell the
wig-wag that I supplied the design for (that I found in the public domain)
why don't you cut me in for 10% of your take. It's not my design either but
what the hell, you're doing it so why shouldn't I? Eric, if you and Paul
are secretly collaborating on a new circuit design to solve the ER
alternator and OVP "problem" (but really don't want to divulge the details
because you want to sell it at outrageous prices later) but also want to
keep us interested in the meantime, why not try a little less antagonism
toward Bob and a bit more salesmanship?
Do I think Bob is god, no I don't, but so far he has given me a lot more
rationale for following his philosophy than the "antagonistic three" have.
And speaking of the third antagonist, what bug crawled up your butt last
night GMCJETpilot? COME ON GUYS, give me something that I can wire into my
plane and have reasonable confidence that my expensive panel will be spared
when the alternator runs off into high voltage failure mode! I think that's
what most of us who've been putting up with this rant over the last year are
waiting for with no-longer-so-baited breath. Unfortunately I can't hold my
breath much longer and no one is forthcoming soooo, I'll likely end up
spending a lot more money than I want to for that extra insurance.
do not archive
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Schematics and wiring.
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