Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:43 AM - more than 1 audio into intercom aux (rd2@evenlink.com)
2. 03:43 AM - Dynon's D10A (rd2@evenlink.com)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Dynon's D10A (Dan Checkoway)
4. 06:21 AM - Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts (Larry McFarland)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts (Ken)
6. 07:19 AM - Rotax Electrical Help ()
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Rotax Electrical Help ()
8. 08:56 AM - Re: Rotax Electrical Help (D Wysong)
9. 09:12 AM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (D Wysong)
10. 09:22 AM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (David Carter)
11. 09:43 AM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (George Braly)
12. 10:12 AM - Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts (John Schroeder)
13. 10:33 AM - Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux (Gerry Holland)
14. 11:19 AM - Re: Rotax Electrical Help (Bernie Berger)
15. 11:21 AM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Chuck Jensen)
16. 11:52 AM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Mickey Coggins)
17. 12:04 PM - Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts (Mickey Coggins)
18. 12:25 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Franz Fux)
19. 12:27 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Chuck Jensen)
20. 12:28 PM - Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux (John Schroeder)
21. 12:43 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Frank & Dorothy)
22. 12:44 PM - Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux (Gerry Holland)
23. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: KX-155 Power connections help! (Jim Baker)
24. 12:50 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Gerry Holland)
25. 01:05 PM - Re: Dynon's D10A (rd2@evenlink.com)
26. 01:16 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (GMC)
27. 01:39 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Chuck Jensen)
28. 01:50 PM - Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux (rd2@evenlink.com)
29. 02:42 PM - Cancel (John & Amy Eckel)
30. 02:45 PM - Routing Antenna Leads (Tinne maha)
31. 05:11 PM - Icom A200 (Lyle Bell)
32. 05:26 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (Eric M. Jones)
33. 05:40 PM - Icom A200 - - figured out my problem (Lyle Bell)
34. 06:20 PM - Re: Electronic Circuit Breakers ? (speedy11@AOL.COM)
35. 07:00 PM - Re: Icom A200 (Bill Maxwell)
36. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: Fire Indication Probe (George Braly)
37. 07:53 PM - Re: Fire Indication Probe (sportav8r@aol.com)
38. 08:49 PM - OVP thoughts. (Rob W M Shipley)
39. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Electrical Help (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | more than 1 audio into intercom aux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Hi all,
I was wondering, can I feed more than one audio signal from different
sources into the aux input of a PS Engineering intercom? (no isolation
between sources necessary?)
All (2 or 3) sources will be mono.
Rumen
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
I am considering installing a EFIS-D10A (dynonavionics.com) as a backup in
certified aircraft.
Has anyone had any experience with this particular unit, its reliability
etc. for IFR?
Rumen
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon's D10A |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I've been flying behind an EFIS-D10 (not the A model). I do fly IFR with
it, but take note of two important items:
1) Only 16 hours (24 approaches) out of 591 hours using the Dynon were flown
solely by reference to instruments.
2) I have conventional "steam gauges" (airspeed, altitude, VSI) and a
Trutrak Pictorial Pilot to back up the Dynon.
Early on, the EFIS-D10 had slight problems with "the leans." The unit would
indicate a slight bank (~5 degrees) when the wings were level. Dynon
addressed this with a software update and now the unit is as reliable, if
not far more reliable, in attitude indication than any mechanical gyro I've
ever flown behind. I personally don't hesitate to fly IFR with it.
I seriously doubt Dynon will ever encourage anybody to use their EFIS for
IFR. Nor do I. But I do it.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (591 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <rd2@evenlink.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon's D10A
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>
> I am considering installing a EFIS-D10A (dynonavionics.com) as a backup in
> certified aircraft.
> Has anyone had any experience with this particular unit, its reliability
> etc. for IFR?
>
> Rumen
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Mickey,
The split lock washer would be referred to as a AN 935 in aircraft terms.
They are not to be used in primary or secondary structures, or where
subject to frequent removal
or corrosive conditions.
It would seem that your fuel pump washers would be OK, but I'd swap the
nuts for something
else if they were indeed brass. Time to get the magnet out.
Your link doesn't seem to be active.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS - www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi,
>
>My fuel pumps came with what look like brass nuts
>and a split lock washer. These are used to hold
>on the ring terminals.
>
>I've read that these split lock washers are not
>recommended in an aviation application. I would
>like to replace these with a standard flat washer
>and a nyloc nut. Does this seem like a good idea?
>
>Photo here:
>
>http://www.rv8.ch/images/articles/20050814081622711_1_original.JPG
>
>Thanks for any feedback.
>
>Mickey
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
In general I used the parts that came with the component unless there
was an obvious incompatibility. I tossed the steel nuts that were on the
brass posts of my contactors and replaced them with brass nuts and brass
internal star washers. I want gas tight connections but I also don't
want to encourage dissimilar metal corrosion. I don't remember what I
did on the steel posts on the fuseblocks but I think I stayed with the
steel nuts which I believe were nickel plated.
My fuel pumps came with hardware like you describe but it was all tin
plated (or solder ?) plated and I used it. The lockwashers were fairly
narrow and more likely to be gas tight than a flat washer.
I think from the archives and the book you will see a preference for
internal star washers and brass or phosphor bronze hardware but again
I'd try not to add another type of metal to the joint if possible.
Ken
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi,
>
>My fuel pumps came with what look like brass nuts
>and a split lock washer. These are used to hold
>on the ring terminals.
>
>I've read that these split lock washers are not
>recommended in an aviation application. I would
>like to replace these with a standard flat washer
>and a nyloc nut. Does this seem like a good idea?
>
>Photo here:
>
>http://www.rv8.ch/images/articles/20050814081622711_1_original.JPG
>
>Thanks for any feedback.
>
>Mickey
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Rotax Electrical Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
8/14/2005
Hello Rotax Experts, A friend of mine wants to buy a Rotax 912 powered S-LSA
(Special- Light Sport Aircraft) powered by a Rotax 912 (xxx) engine. He is
looking to me for guidance and I am very limited in my Rotax knowledge, most
of which I have gained by monitoring a list of Pulsar builders for several
years. My main interest / concern is with the electrical system. I have a
Lockwood catalog and can look at the engine parts diagrams, but am not able
to absorb the implications of it all.
I would appreciate it if someone could provide a brief tutorial on the
electrical inner workings and hidden mechanisms of a typical airplane
powered by a Rotax 912 (xxx) engine. Some of the questions that come to mind
are:
1) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for engine
ignition (spark plugs)?
2) Does the system in 1) above require constant electrical power from a
battery to keep the engine operating?
3) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for
aircraft systems such as avionics and lights?
4) How many amps are available from 3) above?
5) Are there ways of increasing the amperage of 3) above by adding an
additional belt driven alternator?
6) If an additional belt driven alternator is feasible does this also
require some modification to the engine's voltage regulator (I have read
comments that the voltage regulator in this system is a weak point).
Many thanks for all your help and please add any comments you think would be
helpful in addition to answers to the above questions.
OC
PS: As a bonus I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me the
various alphabet soup letters (U, L, S, ?) that appear after the 912 engine
designation.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Electrical Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello OC
I think to fully answer all of your questions, you simply need to be told where
you should go ;-)
http://www.kodiakbs.com/sdintro.htm
Go to techinfo and download manuals
Go to Service info, register and download all for motor you are interested in.
PLEASE NOTE manual is only a starting point, you need to update it according
Service info. There are many things in manual that absolute need not following,
like how to vent )Prime) the oil system, and use of silicone based heat sink
compound on spark plug threads, and proper spark plugs to use.
You need to go back to mid 90s and update from there.
I will try to answer some of your questions:
1) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for engine
> ignition (spark plugs)?
2 Ducati electronic ignitions. There is trigger and charge coils in the
alternator area. Note especial older installs have problems with wires breaking
that go into modules, the newer have modules mounted on engine and are viabration
shock mounted. Supposedly if you get modules too hot, you can't turn off!
>
> 2) Does the system in 1) above require constant electrical power from a
> battery to keep the engine operating?
The 912 and 912S has both a Mechanical and electric pump to feed the constant
depression type 64 Bing Carbs. Thus they are not fully electrical dependent. The
914 is electrical dependent, it has 2 higher pressure electric fuel pumps. the
reason is when boosting you need to supply pressure to carbs ~ 2 to 5 pounds over
airbox pressure.
>
> 3) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for
> aircraft systems such as avionics and lights?
>
> 4) How many amps are available from 3) above?
>
> 5) Are there ways of increasing the amperage of 3) above by adding an
> additional belt driven alternator?
>
> 6) If an additional belt driven alternator is feasible does this also
> require some modification to the engine's voltage regulator (I have read
> comments that the voltage regulator in this system is a weak point).
This will touch on #3 4 5 +6
The internal alternator is not too powerful. At best for anysort of long life and
reliability keep constant draw to 12 amps or less. THAT IS MAX. It may be rated
for 18 or 20 amps but will not really put that out. If you draw too many amps for
long periods of time, the regulators tend to fail. You can help the regulator out
by blowing ambient air on it, make a box with outlet holes and pliumb in air with
scat tube. supposedly if you darw too many amps coils fail because insulation
gets hurt. Just keep regulator cool, and 10 or 11 amps max and probably you will
be rewarded. As far as more power, you could install Rotax belt driven
alternator, I am not certain but you would best use a seperate regulator and keep
on a second buss. Or just use the larger alternator and not use the internal. I
have a 914 for use in a europa, and the belt driven is not happy to use. i opted
to mount a ND alternator on the vacuume pad. It supposedly rewound and rated at
Rotax pad speeds for some rediculous amount, I am counting on 30 amps, will run
it constant at not more that 20. I am conservative i think. I will have 2
batteries, and run radios and clean on internal, this way I can start with all
on, and it will run second fuel pump which a 914 is dependent on.
I have not heard of anyone using a replacement to the rotax regulator with
outstanding sucess. again if you made the regulator better, you would probably
fry the windings. Best keep the Rotax cool and don't ask too much of it all the
time.
>
>
> PS: As a bonus I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me the
> various alphabet soup letters (U, L, S, ?) that appear after the 912 engine
> designation.
As far as rotax designations, I am not certain exact what UL or F means, but the
UL is Non Certified, and F is Certified. This is needed information when
researching service info as many a time for UL motor they will send you to the
F
engine service document for the full score.
The 912 is rated at max of 80HP. The 912S is a larger displacement, higher
compression and rated max of 100HP. It is normal aspirated. The 914 is essential
a 912, kinda sortta same compression and displacement but has a turbo, it is
rated at 115hp for 5 mins and 100HP continuous.
If you use the S you best get the Heavy Duty starter and slipper clutch. The
Heavy Duty starter will fit on the 914 and newer motors come with it. the 912
will probably take it as well.
This is more than you probably wanted to know. Make sure you study how the dogs
take up engine power pulses, and get the latest on tensions and clearances. If
you get a slipper clutch, look up the latest on that as well. All motors have
dogs, with slipper they have more free play. The slipper is to aid you in event
of prop strike. It is essential locked until you need it.
Good Luck
Ron Parigoris
PS please take this information I provided from one who is not yet flying a 914,
and has little practical experiance on rotax motors. I did talk to many in the
know and read/study all I could find.
Keep in mind any of the Rotax 900 series is closer to a motorcycle engine than
a
traditional aircraft engine. The 914 is 71 cubic inches and pumps out 100HP
continuous and will do that up pretty high, a O-200 is 200 cubic inches and will
do that only at lower density altitudes.
You must be very "IN TUNE" with carburator maintenance and adjustment on the
900s, as well as gearbox maintenance. You need smooth or you will tear up
gearboxes.
Also keep in mind that the 900s are much happier on mogas than 100LL. Research
issues caused by 100LL.
All above said, you can call Lockwood and attend either a group seminar, or a
individual instruction for up to i think 3 people.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Electrical Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Far from an expert here, OC, but I'll give you my $0.02 as a Rotax 914
user. I recommend you head over to
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com and pull down the PDF's for the
912, too. The Installation, Maintenance, and Operator's Manuals for
the Rotax engines are all there for the taking and will give you some
data to thumb through.
> 1) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for engine
> ignition (spark plugs)?
The ignition is a 'dual ignition unit of a breakerless, capacitor
discharge design with an integrated generator.' It comes out of the
crate ready to go.
> 2) Does the system in 1) above require constant electrical power from a
> battery to keep the engine operating?
Nope, no external power required (... once you bump the starter).
> 3) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for
> aircraft systems such as avionics and lights?
There's an integrated generator and an external rectifier-regulator
(the Ducati unit) for power. The generator is 14 V/ 20 A... but
that's at 68 degF ambient. I've read that 12 A is about all you're
going to get without cooling worries. However, most of the failures
I've read about were firewall-mounted units inside tight cowls with no
provisions for unit cooling. Take the 12 A number with a block of
salt... but you might want to include some creative ducting.
> 4) How many amps are available from 3) above?
12 A is the user recommended "stay below" number although the 68 degF
curve says you can get 20 A at 5000 RPM (gen is fed by the crank).
> 5) Are there ways of increasing the amperage of 3) above by adding an
> additional belt driven alternator?
Yes, there are mounting provisions on the engine for a belt driven system.
> 6) If an additional belt driven alternator is feasible does this also
> require some modification to the engine's voltage regulator (I have read
> comments that the voltage regulator in this system is a weak point).
No mod's required... the Ducati unit (i.e. - weak point) is only
handling the juice from the internal generator. You'll have to decide
whether you want an internally or externally regulated alternator. I
ain't touching that one... ;-)
> Many thanks for all your help and please add any comments you think would be
> helpful in addition to answers to the above questions.
The Europa list is a good source of indirect Rotax 912/914 info if you
have general operating questions.
> PS: As a bonus I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me the
> various alphabet soup letters (U, L, S, ?) that appear after the 912 engine
> designation.
If it has a UL in the name it isn't certified (perhaps that means
'UltraLight'???). The big difference between the 912 UL and the 912
ULS is more HP (UL is an 79 HP engine whilst ULS is 95 HP). To add
further confusion, there's also a number after all of the letters to
tell you whether it's suitable for fixed pitch (2), constant speed
(3), or fixed pitch convertible to constant speed (4) prop.
HTH!
D
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Charlie -
An innovative varieze driver "rolled his own" by stringing a twisted
wire pair throughout the cowl. One wire is connected hot and the
other is connected to ground. When the low temperature (cheap) wire
insulation melts the wires touch and the circuit is completed to
trigger his alarm.
For some reason he's reluctant to test his system in flight... but it
sure seems like it would work fine.
D
---------------------------
On 8/13/05, Charlie Burton <notrubce@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Charlie Burton" <notrubce@hotmail.com>
>
> I'm looking for a probe to put inside the cowl that will detect a fire and set
off an alarm. I'm installing a remote fire extinguisher system and would like
something to indicate a fire before the red hot firewall or leaking smoke does.
> Charlie Burton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
This sounds like the best, simplest way to go. So, instead of asking for
the "best", "highest temp insulation" wire, what is the "lowest melting
point insulation" cheapo wire?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "D Wysong" <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire Indication Probe
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
>
> Charlie -
>
> An innovative varieze driver "rolled his own" by stringing a twisted
> wire pair throughout the cowl. One wire is connected hot and the
> other is connected to ground. When the low temperature (cheap) wire
> insulation melts the wires touch and the circuit is completed to
> trigger his alarm.
>
> For some reason he's reluctant to test his system in flight... but it
> sure seems like it would work fine.
>
> D
>
> ---------------------------
> On 8/13/05, Charlie Burton <notrubce@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Charlie Burton"
>> <notrubce@hotmail.com>
>>
>> I'm looking for a probe to put inside the cowl that will detect a fire
>> and set off an alarm. I'm installing a remote fire extinguisher system
>> and would like something to indicate a fire before the red hot firewall
>> or leaking smoke does.
>> Charlie Burton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
The problem with that "good" approach is that the areas that are most
likely to involve a fire are already hot enough to melt the insulation
in normal operation.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D
Wysong
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire Indication Probe
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Charlie -
An innovative varieze driver "rolled his own" by stringing a twisted
wire pair throughout the cowl. One wire is connected hot and the
other is connected to ground. When the low temperature (cheap) wire
insulation melts the wires touch and the circuit is completed to
trigger his alarm.
For some reason he's reluctant to test his system in flight... but it
sure seems like it would work fine.
D
---------------------------
On 8/13/05, Charlie Burton <notrubce@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Charlie Burton"
<notrubce@hotmail.com>
>
> I'm looking for a probe to put inside the cowl that will detect a fire
and set off an alarm. I'm installing a remote fire extinguisher system
and would like something to indicate a fire before the red hot firewall
or leaking smoke does.
> Charlie Burton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Ken -
Does one have to replace the internal star washers after they are used
once? Seems that it would be easy to mash the teeth flat after torquing
the nut & washe once.
Thanks,
John
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:19:04 -0400, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
> I think from the archives and the book you will see a preference for
> internal star washers and brass or phosphor bronze hardware but again
> I'd try not to add another type of metal to the joint if possible.
--
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
Hi to all.
Can someone answer Rumens question.
I need to know too for my PS501!
> I was wondering, can I feed more than one audio signal from different
> sources into the aux input of a PS Engineering intercom? (no isolation
> between sources necessary?)
> All (2 or 3) sources will be mono.
Regards
Gerry
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Rotax Electrical Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bernie Berger" <bberger4@tampabay.rr.com>
Ah, I have a 40 amp external alternator on my Series III and have seen one
on an XP. One of our builders, in Europe put one in his plane. To do so he
had to do a little relieving of the cowling to make it fit but it wasn't
much. Additionally, there is now a 40 amp alternator that will mount on the
back of the gear box, where the a vacuum pump or a prop governor mounts.
Bernie Berger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pulsar-builders@caseyk.org
[mailto:owner-pulsar-builders@caseyk.org]On Behalf Of cm.coulter@att.net
LIVINGSTON, Kip
Subject: Re: Rotax Electrical Help
OC The Rotax 912 uses a motorcycle alternator. It has 2 coils that produce
power for the
ignition. No battery is needed. Also it has lighting coils 5 I think that
produces 17 amps
at 5500 rpm. There is an add on alternater that uses a belt drive but will
not fit in a Pulsar
cowl so you will not see them used on Pulsars. Also there is a Company that
makes a small Alternator that runs off the air pump drive. I think it puts
out 20+ amps but not sure.
Hope this helps.
Clarke
-------------- Original message from <bakerocb@cox.net>: --------------
> 8/14/2005
>
> Hello Rotax Experts, A friend of mine wants to buy a Rotax 912 powered
S-LSA
> (Special- Light Sport Aircraft) powered by a Rotax 912 (xxx) engine. He is
> looking to me for guidance and I am very limited in my Rotax knowledge,
most
> of which I have gained by monitoring a list of Pulsar builders for several
> years. My main interest / concern is with the electrical system. I have a
> Lockwood catalog and can look at the engine parts diagrams, but am not
able
> to absorb the implications of it all.
>
> I would appreciate it if someone could provide a brief tutorial on the
> electrical inner workings and hidden mechanisms of a typical airplane
> powered by a Rotax 912 (xxx) engine. Some of the questions that come to
mind
> are:
>
> 1) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for
engine
> ignition (spark plugs)?
>
> 2) Does the system in 1) above require constant electrical power from a
> battery to keep the engine operating?
>
> 3) What generates, controls, and distributes the electrical power for
> aircraft systems such as avionics and lights?
>
> 4) How many amps are available from 3) above?
>
> 5) Are there ways of increasing the amperage of 3) above by adding an
> additional belt driven alternator?
>
> 6) If an additional belt driven alternator is feasible does this also
> require some modification to the engine's voltage regulator (I have read
> comments that the voltage regulator in this system is a weak point).
>
> Many thanks for all your help and please add any comments you think would
be
> helpful in addition to answers to the above questions.
>
> OC
>
> PS: As a bonus I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me the
> various alphabet soup letters (U, L, S, ?) that appear after the 912
engine
> designation.
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
In a Velocity pusher, where fire detection is far more important than a
tractor configuration, I took two thermo couples intended for
installation in a water jacket for automotive applications and ran the
wires to the Grand Rapids EFIS. GRT EFIS, set to the engine data
display, shows the temp readout of the two sensors, one each side of the
engine.
Should one go 'hot', it'll trigger the GRT internally set alarm level.
The temp readout between flights are very consistent and comeback down
to a very predictable value after a hard, hot climb. I've not
calibrated them, since the absolute temperature isn't particularly
important--I just want to know if something jumps 50 or 100 degrees, in
which case I will immediately become very focused!
Chuck
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> In a Velocity pusher, where fire detection is far more important than a
> tractor configuration...
Just out of curiosity, why is this the case?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Split washers vs. Nyloc nuts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
I didn't really consider the issue of dissimilar metals. My
main concern was of the nut coming loose. I guess this is
not much of a problem. I'll just go with what Bosch shipped,
the thin brass nut and a steel lockwasher.
Thanks,
Mickey
Ken wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
> In general I used the parts that came with the component unless there
> was an obvious incompatibility. I tossed the steel nuts that were on the
> brass posts of my contactors and replaced them with brass nuts and brass
> internal star washers. I want gas tight connections but I also don't
> want to encourage dissimilar metal corrosion. I don't remember what I
> did on the steel posts on the fuseblocks but I think I stayed with the
> steel nuts which I believe were nickel plated.
>
> My fuel pumps came with hardware like you describe but it was all tin
> plated (or solder ?) plated and I used it. The lockwashers were fairly
> narrow and more likely to be gas tight than a flat washer.
>
> I think from the archives and the book you will see a preference for
> internal star washers and brass or phosphor bronze hardware but again
> I'd try not to add another type of metal to the joint if possible.
>
> Ken
>
> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>My fuel pumps came with what look like brass nuts
>>and a split lock washer. These are used to hold
>>on the ring terminals.
>>
>>I've read that these split lock washers are not
>>recommended in an aviation application. I would
>>like to replace these with a standard flat washer
>>and a nyloc nut. Does this seem like a good idea?
>>
>>Photo here:
>>
>>http://www.rv8.ch/images/articles/20050814081622711_1_original.JPG
>>
>>Thanks for any feedback.
>>
>>Mickey
>>
>>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 18
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| Subject: | Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Franz Fux" <franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
because you cant see or smell it
Franz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mickey
Coggins
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire Indication Probe
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> In a Velocity pusher, where fire detection is far more important than a
> tractor configuration...
Just out of curiosity, why is this the case?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
--
--
Message 19
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| Subject: | Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
With a pusher configuration, your tail feathers can be burning off and
you may not know it until something quits or falls off, because it's all
behind you. (I don't have a review mirror on the Velo--but if I did,
it'd be full of Bonanzas and light twins anyhow).
With a tractor, you get a face full of heat and smoke right shortly.
Not good news but certainly an early warning sign, though I suppose
there are event scenarios with a tractor that the initial fire might not
come to your attention immediately, so a detection system still seems
like a good idea. With a fire, every second truly counts!
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mickey Coggins
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire Indication Probe
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> In a Velocity pusher, where fire detection is far more important than
a
> tractor configuration...
Just out of curiosity, why is this the case?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
I did it with the Garmin 340 and used a resistor in line on each input
wire. It was a 300 ohm, 1/4W. I had the Transponder (Garmin 330), the AOA
(Proprietary Software Sport Model), the autopilot (TruTrak DFC 250) and
the Dynon D10A. Dynon still has not implemented their audio, but intend to
do so.
The resistor value came from the avionics shop that wired the stack
cables. I did the actual wiring for the aux(unswitched)input pin on the
340.
I would call the PSA Engineering folks and ask for sure, but I'll bet they
say to use a resistor.
Hope this helps.
John
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Frank & Dorothy <frankvdh@xtra.co.nz>
Whilst this is cheap, I think it is probably not reliable.
The question I have is... What causes the wires to move together once
the insulation is gone? I expect that vibration would probably do it.
Bit is 'probably' good enough?
D Wysong wrote:
>An innovative varieze driver "rolled his own" by stringing a twisted
>wire pair throughout the cowl. One wire is connected hot and the
>other is connected to ground. When the low temperature (cheap) wire
>insulation melts the wires touch and the circuit is completed to
>trigger his alarm.
>
>For some reason he's reluctant to test his system in flight... but it
>sure seems like it would work fine.
>
>D
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
John Hi!
> I would call the PSA Engineering folks and ask for sure, but I'll bet they
> say to use a resistor.
>
> Hope this helps.
It does.
Regards
Gerry
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RE: KX-155 Power connections help! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> The only thing I can think of is that the switched OUT pins are
> controlled by the on/off switch at the faceplate and are fed from the
> 14v power in pins (14 and R). The switched IN pins must feed
power to
> the display. (Which is why my display worked when I put power on
them
> directly from the bus.)
> Sure seems like an odd way to power the display!
If I understand this correctly, not if you want to be able to dim the
display independently of the auto-dim feature?
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
Chuck Hi!
> (I don't have a review mirror on the Velo--but if I did,
> it'd be full of Bonanzas and light twins anyhow).
Very subtle and funny!!
Regards
Gerry
Do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon's D10A |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Thanks Dan,
this is exactly the kind od response I was looking for.
BTW:
>
I seriously doubt Dynon will ever encourage anybody to use their EFIS for
IFR. Nor do I. But I do it.
>
Similarly, does Garmin encourage anybody to use their panel page (gpsmap
196/296/396) for ifr? ;) But it could save one's hide in case of emergency.
If Dynon is as reliable (MTBF etc.) as the handheld gps', then it proibably
is a better deal @ $2195 than sporty's (also non-certified) electric #
2060A Gyro ($1595). Not saying that sporty's is unreliable, merely noticing
that dynon offers a host of functions vs. very the functions found in
sporty's product.
Or, thinking again, maybe garmin's deal is the best one, considering the
number of functions offered and same ifr/vfr/certification issues.
Rumen
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: GMC <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Hi Charlie
How about a remote temperature sensor and read under cowl temperature.
Wondering what your procedure will be if you do get a fire warning? Most
large aircraft have a double system, two fire loops, and both systems
must sense fire to activate fire warning. This is to help prevent false
warnings.
Do not archive
George in Langley BC
>>
>>I'm looking for a probe to put inside the cowl that will detect a fire and set
off an alarm. I'm installing a remote fire extinguisher system and would like
something to indicate a fire before the red hot firewall or leaking smoke does.
>>Charlie Burton
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
George,
My thermo censors reads out in degree F on the GRT EFIS engine screen. I
positioned a thermo-probe (the type you normally screw into a water
jacket) on each side of the engine a few inches from the exhaust pipe
region--a likely ignition point or heat source if a pipe cracks/exits
the aircraft.
I don't have a first-order smoke detection system. Smoke detection
might be a slightly superior detector, but may a higher
complexity/cost/false reading quotient.
As I always say, "where there's fire, there's heat", so I figured
temperature readout is probably adequate in that they have a low false
warning level, are simple, low cost and excellent for trending. Were I
ever to see an unseeming temp rise, I'd do a prompt left turn to see if
I was trailing an air show smoke plume...my fool proof, low cost (high
anxiety) smoke detection system. Since virtually everything
non-metallic in plane construction is petroleum derived, we can be
confident that smoke will eventually be an element of a 'situation'.
Chuck
George wrote...
How about a remote temperature sensor and read under cowl temperature.
Wondering what your procedure will be if you do get a fire warning? Most
large aircraft have a double system, two fire loops, and both systems
must sense fire to activate fire warning. This is to help prevent false
warnings.
Do not archive
George in Langley BC
>>
>>I'm looking for a probe to put inside the cowl that will detect a fire
and set off an alarm. I'm installing a remote fire extinguisher system
and would like something to indicate a fire before the red hot firewall
or leaking smoke does.
>>Charlie Burton
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: more than 1 audio into intercom aux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Thanks John.
Gerry, did you receive this too?
On Monday I'll call PS Engineering to discuss this and will post the answer
(if I get one; they have been a bit slow, to put it mildly, to answer emails).
Generally a 5-10 kohm resistor per input would be ok for passive isolation,
if it does not decrease signal too much. The resistor depends on the input
impedance of the intercom aux input and the output of the source/s and the
number of sources. Without getting into detail, I was looking for a quick
and dirty.
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from John Schroeder; Date: 03:27 PM 8/14/2005
-0400)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
<jschroeder@perigee.net>
I did it with the Garmin 340 and used a resistor in line on each input
wire. It was a 300 ohm, 1/4W. I had the Transponder (Garmin 330), the AOA
(Proprietary Software Sport Model), the autopilot (TruTrak DFC 250) and
the Dynon D10A. Dynon still has not implemented their audio, but intend to
do so.
The resistor value came from the avionics shop that wired the stack
cables. I did the actual wiring for the aux(unswitched)input pin on the
340.
I would call the PSA Engineering folks and ask for sure, but I'll bet they
say to use a resistor.
Hope this helps.
John
Message 29
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Routing Antenna Leads |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Hello Bob & List,
I'm installing my Garmin panel mounted GPS/Comm (GNC 250-XL) with
Perihelion's RG+142 coax in a tube & fabric aircraft. The two antennas are
about 5' apart. The installation manual says to route the GPS cable 'as far
as possible' away from the Comm cable. Before reading that part I was
inclined to route them right next to each other. Now I don't really know
what to do.
I couldn't find anything on this specific question in the archives. Is
there a minimum distance for good radio performance?
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
Message 31
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lyle Bell <lylebell@gmail.com>
I am helping a friend with radio and intercom installation on an RV 6 and
have run into my first roadbock. I wired the molex edge connector per
installation instructions (at least I think I did!). In my first bench test,
receive audio is fine. The transmitter is connected to a 52 ohm dummy load
through a wattmeter. When I key the radio there is a steady tone in the
headset and no power output. The TX indicator does not come on. I've
double-checked wiring and it looks right. Any ideas?
Thanks, Lyle Bell
Message 32
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| Subject: | RE: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Fire detectors usually operate by detecting the UV radiation given off by a
flame. Only a fire in the cowl will show any UV. The detectors are simple
and easy to get from Allied Electronics, etc., and the additional circuitry
not hard to make. Ideally several of them should cover all areas of
interest.
You could use a video camera--they are so cheap a little airplane could have
a dozen of them for every conceivable task--including fire detection.
Has anybody experimented with home smoke detectors under the cowl?
And finally two words--E Bay. There are several "Flame detectors" for sale
cheap right now. Flame detectors (or "no flame" detectors) are used in some
furnaces, and I think they are UV photoelectric for the most part.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what
to have for dinner."
- James Bovard
Message 33
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| Subject: | Icom A200 - - figured out my problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lyle Bell <lylebell@gmail.com>
After sending out my plea for help, I found my problem. It is directly
attributable to crossed wires - - in my head!
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Circuit Breakers ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: speedy11@aol.com
Bob,
Any chance of bringing this closer to the front burner? I think using the electronic
CB as you mentioned is interesting - and I believe others find it interesting
also.
Implementing the latest technology and concepts is what drives custom aircraft
building. Having your take on this CB would be valuable information.
Stan Sutterfield
>Bob & All
>
>All this talk about the best alternator protection and nobody has
>mentioned the new electronic circuit breakers with high/low voltage
>cutout (16 & 10 volts) complete with warning light etc. Sounds like
>crowbar over voltage protection in miniature. Maybe these pricey ($77)
>items are the best way to protect my avionics stack! What say you, all I
>know is what I see in the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
I have a couple of these things to evaluate . . . but they're
pretty far back on the stove. I think they're a solid state
relay with some smarts for reacting to abnormal voltages.
I suspect they're a series switch that simply opens when
voltages get out of range.
The ones I have are fitted with miniature switches for
controls. If you used one of these for an alternator field
switch, they would protect the whole airplane . . . assuming
we're comfortable with their switching dynamics.
Bob . . .
Message 35
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
I once miswired that Molex plug ( on my own radio too) by getting confused,
part way through the job after a meal break, as to whether each
number/letter legend referred to the pin on its right or its left!
Unfortunately, I got the power pins transposed in that process and managed
to vaporise a pcb track inside the radio. A simple fix as it turned out but
one that took a while to fault find.
Sounds a little like your PTT wiring is not grounding the PTT pin on the
radio, hence you aren't actually keying the transmitter. Even if your mic
wiring were faulty, grounding a functioning PTT pin should produce a healthy
carrier signal into the dummy load. Dont know about that tone you report
though. Might be worth checking out that dummy load/wattmeter combination
in case either is faulty and presenting too high a VSWR to the transmitter,
causing it to shut itself off t protect its final amplifier stages.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Bell" <lylebell@gmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lyle Bell <lylebell@gmail.com>
>
> I am helping a friend with radio and intercom installation on an RV 6 and
> have run into my first roadbock. I wired the molex edge connector per
> installation instructions (at least I think I did!). In my first bench
> test,
> receive audio is fine. The transmitter is connected to a 52 ohm dummy load
> through a wattmeter. When I key the radio there is a steady tone in the
> headset and no power output. The TX indicator does not come on. I've
> double-checked wiring and it looks right. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks, Lyle Bell
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | RE: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
Eric,
UV or Infra Red ?
Regards, George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Fire Indication Probe
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
Fire detectors usually operate by detecting the UV radiation given off
by a
flame. Only a fire in the cowl will show any UV. The detectors are
simple
and easy to get from Allied Electronics, etc., and the additional
circuitry
not hard to make. Ideally several of them should cover all areas of
interest.
You could use a video camera--they are so cheap a little airplane could
have
a dozen of them for every conceivable task--including fire detection.
Has anybody experimented with home smoke detectors under the cowl?
And finally two words--E Bay. There are several "Flame detectors" for
sale
cheap right now. Flame detectors (or "no flame" detectors) are used in
some
furnaces, and I think they are UV photoelectric for the most part.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on
what
to have for dinner."
- James Bovard
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fire Indication Probe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
How about a sturdy cotton thread holding open a spring-loaded NC switch? Cotton
burns through, switch closes. Verify by a secondary reading of cowl air temp
since thread might get oil-soaked, weakened and eventually fail from age...
Maybe an IR lipstick camera and small monitor to keep a constant eye on things
inside that dark cowling?
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fire Indication Probe
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
In a Velocity pusher, where fire detection is far more important than a
tractor configuration, I took two thermo couples intended for
installation in a water jacket for automotive applications and ran the
wires to the Grand Rapids EFIS. GRT EFIS, set to the engine data
display, shows the temp readout of the two sensors, one each side of the
engine.
Should one go 'hot', it'll trigger the GRT internally set alarm level.
The temp readout between flights are very consistent and comeback down
to a very predictable value after a hard, hot climb. I've not
calibrated them, since the absolute temperature isn't particularly
important--I just want to know if something jumps 50 or 100 degrees, in
which case I will immediately become very focused!
Chuck
Message 38
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
I'll start with humble apologies to all who have lost patience with this
topic. For those of us still having an interest in any resolution which may
be found I would like to ask the following.
Given that many of us would like to use IR alternators for cost and
convenience reasons the issue becomes one of how we can protect our avionics
with a high degree of certainty.
1) Until a few days ago when Ken Lehman wrote about "an OVM module of some
kind protecting the supply to that $15k radio rack that you mentioned." I
hadn't seen anyone mention this as a solution, although I have wondered
about it myself. Why couldn't this prove a good way to save our wallets
leaving the alternator to be shut down manually?
2) Load dump (back emf ?) seems to be the alternator killer when crowbared
under load. Bob wrote "Actually, the neatest way (lowest parts count) to
run the
IR alternator would be to add a diode in series with the alternator's
output and crowbar the alternator itself to ground without loading the
ship's bus. The lights wouldn't even flicker. Problem is that adding the
diode tosses off .5 to 1 volt of output.". Why couldn't this be reduced to
.2v or thereabouts with a Schottky thus making this approach feasable?
These are probably naive questions but the debate so far I have found very
valuable indeed. The education afforded by the constructive contributors
has far outweighed the unsatsfactorily negative contributions from the
cabbage tossers. Kudos to those who disagree politely and in a reasoned and
constructive manner.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
La Mesa, CA. (next to San Diego)
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Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Rotax Electrical Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter <kevann@verizon.net>
"Additionally, there is now a 40 amp alternator that will mount on the
back of the gear box, where the a vacuum pump or a prop governor mounts."
>Any idea where I can get such an alternator?
>
>
Kevin
Europa with a 914
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