Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - Re: Re: Transponder 'air switch' (Gilles Tatry)
2. 07:48 AM - Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap (Guy Buchanan)
3. 08:05 AM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: Switch label requirements (Richard Riley)
5. 08:33 AM - Re: Ammeter Shunt connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Switch label requirements (Bruce Gray)
7. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Switch label requirements (Dave Morris \)
8. 09:55 AM - Re: Switch label requirements (Speedy11@aol.com)
9. 10:10 AM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: Ammeter Shunt connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 11:18 AM - Re: trim relay deck trim speed control ()
12. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Final (REALLY) PMag Update - Part 2 ()
13. 11:28 AM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator (Dave Morris \)
14. 11:31 AM - Re: Switch label requirements (Speedy11@aol.com)
15. 12:10 PM - Where is Shannon Knoepflein? (Fergus Kyle)
16. 12:15 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap (Mickey Coggins)
17. 12:23 PM - Re: Where is Shannon Knoepflein? (Jeff Hildebrand)
18. 12:31 PM - Re: Where is Shannon Knoepflein? (Alan K. Adamson)
19. 12:50 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap (John D. Heath)
20. 01:11 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap (Gerry Holland)
21. 02:30 PM - Auto Anti-Ice Switch (John D. Heath)
22. 04:23 PM - Re: trim relay deck trim speed control (Mark R Steitle)
23. 06:28 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 07:34 PM - Ammeter shunt sizing . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 10:46 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator (Guy Buchanan)
26. 10:53 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator (Guy Buchanan)
27. 10:53 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator (Guy Buchanan)
28. 11:23 PM - Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap (Mark R Steitle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder 'air switch' |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Tatry <gilles.tatry@wanadoo.fr>
As liners pilots, we:
- Turn the rotating beacon on before starting engines, off after engine shutdown,
- Turn the taxi lights on when the aircraft is about to move, off when the aircraft
is stopped,
- Turn the strobe lights and take-off lights on when entering the active runway,
off when leaving the runway.
This is worldwide common use, night and day conditions.
Regards,
Gilles
> Message du 23/08/05 20:07
> De : "Craig P. Steffen"
> A : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Copie =C3=A0 :
> Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder 'air switch'
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig P. Steffen"
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 12:55:20PM -0400, Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
> >
> > I teach pilots to never turn on the strobes until taking the active runway
> > for takeoff - especially in low light or night conditions.
> > Stan Sutterfield
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/23/2005 3:00:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> > I like strobes flashing on the ground.. Maybe (especially?) before engine
> > start.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Matt-
>
> The relevant FAR (in part):
>
> ************
>
> FAR 91.209 Aircraft lights.
>
> No person may:
> ...
> (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light
> system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the
> anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command
> determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the
> interest of safety to turn the lights off.
>
> ************
>
> It just occured to me to wonder; when they say "Operate an aircraft",
> do they mean in the air, or at all?
>
> I'm pretty sure that airliners always have their rotating lights
> running whenever their engines are on.
>
> Craig Steffen
>
> --
> craig@craigsteffen.net
> public key available at http://www.craigsteffen.net/GPG/
> current goal: use a CueCat scanner to inventory my books
> career goal: be the first Vorlon Time Lord
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
I'd like to install a thermostatically controlled radiator flap on
my Kitfox. I'd like to remove the engines' thermostat and control the
cooling at the radiator. This prevents a 2-stroke malady called
cold-seizure where the cold water in the radiator dumps into the area
around the cylinders at an uncontrolled rate. (I know it's a poor cooling
system design, but it's light, I'm stuck with it, and I'm looking for the
best work-around.)
I've thought of a couple of possibilities:
1. Ideally I'd have a microprocessor that would take in water
temperature and send a proportional signal to a servo that would control
the radiator flap. Has anyone seen such a thing off the shelf? If not, any
idea how hard it would be to implement?
2. Use a automotive cooling fan sensor to drive a servo that
opens/shuts the flap. I think these sensors open/close only, so the flap
would either open and shut as needed. (I think the time constant on the
system would probably be slow enough to make this work.)
Does anyone have a better idea on how to implement this?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 8/25/2005 9:50:15 AM Central Standard Time,
bnn@nethere.com writes:
1. Ideally I'd have a microprocessor that would take in water
temperature and send a proportional signal to a servo that would control
the radiator flap. Has anyone seen such a thing off the shelf? If not, any
idea how hard it would be to implement?
2. Use a automotive cooling fan sensor to drive a servo that
opens/shuts the flap. I think these sensors open/close only, so the flap
would either open and shut as needed. (I think the time constant on the
system would probably be slow enough to make this work.)
Does anyone have a better idea on how to implement this?
How did the old Packards control their shutters?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Switch label requirements |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
How did he do mixture?
At 06:19 PM 8/24/05, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
><BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
>Here's the extreme on labeling the throttle. Even the friction lock is
>labeled:
>http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Controls/F-100%20Throttle%20With%207lbs%20Junk%20Removed.jpg
>
>Off an F-100 and onto a Dragonfly :)
>
>Dave Morris
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt connection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:28 PM 8/24/2005 -0600, you wrote:
Oh, okay.. It seems like the implied goal is to not run the starting
currents through the ammeter shunt because it will tend to slap an analog
meter pretty hard when the starter is cycled. Didn't we discuss this a
few years ago, and decide that it probably woudn't actually hurt the meter
to bang the needle against the stop? If that's not so good, it seems like
we could put in a little circuit which when enabled by the starter circuit
would drop the voltage at being fed from the shunt to reduce abuse to the
meter. In either case, the shunt can be in the main feed from the
battery.
The hall effect idea is better. Actually, a flashing light would be
better still... Well... Wait another minute.. I have a thought. You say
that diagnosing electrical problems should be reserved for after you are
on the ground. I can't argue with that. However, I posit that on a new
OBAM airplane, it may be rather practical to build in a little extra
instrumentation (and leave it aboard) than would be installed in a
design-debugged production airplane. What say you?
Your cart is way ahead of the horse. Decide first how a battery
ammeter is "better" than any other form of ammeter . . . i.e. will
ANY form of ammeter help you deal with a particular failure mode
and how would your write a procedure to that explains what to do
when presented with various kinds of "data" from the ammeter? Is
this data even useful in flight? Would it be better to have a pre-planned,
easily executed transition from plan-A to plan-B and simply leave
all the systems management until later?
Not all design goals are compatible with each other. If you want
the b-lead out of the cockpit, then battery ammeters are in the real-hard
pile. There are many airplanes flying with alternator loadmeters
(Cessnas and misc) and many flying with alternator loadmeters (Pipers,
Beechcraft, etc). . . Is one "better" than the other? If so, does
"goodness" of the battery ammeter compel you to strive for a way to
implement it along with b-leads taken out of the cockpit? Keep in mind
that hall effect devices hit with high surge currents can take on a small
"set" in reading that appears as an offset from zero. Usually
limited to a percent or so of full scale but it bugs some folks
to see non-zero readings of any kind when stuff is shut off. So
running 200A starter current through a sensor which you'd like to
have .1 amp resolution and perhaps .1 amp accuracy over the range
of 0-60 amps is, perhaps, not a good idea either.
The automotive diagnostics philosophy is to install sensors and
taps for measuring system parameters and bringing those out to
a diagnostics connector. Using the same idea, we could install
loadmeter shunts, field circuit shunts, and voltage sense
taps off all busses, batteries, field terminals and perhaps
add some sensors for other data like alternator stator and
diode thermocouples, oil temp, thermocouples on all cylinder
heads, etc.
You would mount the connector so that it could be accessed
easily on the ground for maintenance diagnostics and perhaps
even used in the air for temporarily installed instrumentation.
This saves weight, panel space and dollars for carrying around instruments
that never help you fly the airplane but provides a ready access
to such data for diagnosis when necessary. As you've noted,
it's easiest to install these features when the airplane is
under construction than later.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Switch label requirements |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
I don't believe those blow torches had a mixture control.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Riley
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Switch label requirements
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
How did he do mixture?
At 06:19 PM 8/24/05, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
><BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
>Here's the extreme on labeling the throttle. Even the friction lock is
>labeled:
>http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Controls/F-100%20Throttle%20Wi
th%207lbs%20Junk%20Removed.jpg
>
>Off an F-100 and onto a Dragonfly :)
>
>Dave Morris
--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Switch label requirements |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Safety wire on the carb's mixture lever. :) For now anyway. And don't
fly too high.
Dave
At 09:58 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
>
>How did he do mixture?
>
>At 06:19 PM 8/24/05, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
> ><BigD@DaveMorris.com>
> >
> >Here's the extreme on labeling the throttle. Even the friction lock is
> >labeled:
> >http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Controls/F-100%20Throttle%20
> With%207lbs%20Junk%20Removed.jpg
> >
> >Off an F-100 and onto a Dragonfly :)
> >
> >Dave Morris
>
>
>--
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Switch label requirements |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
Dave,
Points well taken.
I have to agree with you and Eric. I favor labeling every switch if
possible. However, if the same pilot is flying the airplane for years, he/she
will
know where the switches are, so I can understand if a custombuilder decides to
not label - although I believe he/she should. If the airplane is sold, the
builder should strive to label all switches before the sale.
On Dave's points, there are certain switches in a custom-built plane that are
difficult to label. If the builder installed one of the Infinity sticks and
has some things functioning through the stick, I'd say labeling those switches
would be difficult - and perhaps futile since your hand may be covering the
label. The shape of switches or use of the colored bat switch covers could
help with identification of function in the absence of labels.
I still believe switches should be labeled to the max extent possible. It
just makes sense.
And, even though labeled, the stand-on-your-head-to-see-them switches in
C-172s are maddening. Pilots who frequently fly a particular C-172 usually
actuate the switches by feel or by counting to the position, so the labels are
useless anyway.
Stan Sutterfield
www.rv-8a.net
Eric,
My personal pet peeve is that little "row of identical switches" down under
the yoke of most C-172s and similar, where you have to crane your neck down
to find the strobe light switch or the avionics master or the nav lights.
In the automotive world, you don't need a label on your windshield wiper
switch or your horn switch or your window switch, because they have been
designed with application-specific form factors. The landing gear switch
in an airplane looks like a wheel. What if we made the strobe light switch
look different from the landing light switch so you could tell which one
you were toggling "by feel" instead of having to read a label while trying
to fly the plane?
Dave Morris
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator |
Flap
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Flap
At 11:04 AM 8/25/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 8/25/2005 9:50:15 AM Central Standard Time,
>bnn@nethere.com writes:
>
>1. Ideally I'd have a microprocessor that would take in water
>temperature and send a proportional signal to a servo that would control
>the radiator flap. Has anyone seen such a thing off the shelf? If not, any
>idea how hard it would be to implement?
>
>2. Use a automotive cooling fan sensor to drive a servo that
>opens/shuts the flap. I think these sensors open/close only, so the flap
>would either open and shut as needed. (I think the time constant on the
>system would probably be slow enough to make this work.)
>
> Does anyone have a better idea on how to implement this?
>
>How did the old Packards control their shutters?
This doesn't take a microprocessor. You need to identify an
actuator capable of moving the flapper valve. If the actuator
has a built-in, position feedback pot so much the better. Would
one of the Ray-Allen devices work?
Next, you need to electrically quantify the water temperature.
I'll suggest an LM135, 10mV/Degree_K device from National.
Pick an operating range for door operation. Pick a top operating
temperature and assume door will be fully open when this temperature
is reached. Pick a temperature some degrees below the control
point that is hopefully just above your normal cruise operating
temperature.
Set up op amp and power transistors to drive servo such that
door is fully open at max operating and just starts to crack
at some point just above normal cruise temps. I can develop
a schematic and bill of materials if you need it.
I proposed a similar system for the C-206/210 series aircraft
cowl flaps about 40 years ago. We brass-boarded it and everyone
agreed that it would be a slick accessory but installation costs
(about $200 in 1964 dollars, $1200 in today's dollars) was
too high for even a gold-plated option.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt connection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:32 AM 8/25/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 04:28 PM 8/24/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Oh, okay.. It seems like the implied goal is to not run the starting
>currents through the ammeter shunt because it will tend to slap an analog
>meter pretty hard when the starter is cycled. Didn't we discuss this a
>few years ago, and decide that it probably woudn't actually hurt the meter
>to bang the needle against the stop? If that's not so good, it seems like
>we could put in a little circuit which when enabled by the starter circuit
>would drop the voltage at being fed from the shunt to reduce abuse to the
>meter. In either case, the shunt can be in the main feed from the
>battery.
>
>The hall effect idea is better. Actually, a flashing light would be
>better still... Well... Wait another minute.. I have a thought. You say
>that diagnosing electrical problems should be reserved for after you are
>on the ground. I can't argue with that. However, I posit that on a new
>OBAM airplane, it may be rather practical to build in a little extra
>instrumentation (and leave it aboard) than would be installed in a
>design-debugged production airplane. What say you?
>
> Your cart is way ahead of the horse. Decide first how a battery
> ammeter is "better" than any other form of ammeter . . . i.e. will
> ANY form of ammeter help you deal with a particular failure mode
> and how would your write a procedure to that explains what to do
> when presented with various kinds of "data" from the ammeter? Is
> this data even useful in flight? Would it be better to have a
> pre-planned,
> easily executed transition from plan-A to plan-B and simply leave
> all the systems management until later?
>
> Not all design goals are compatible with each other. If you want
> the b-lead out of the cockpit, then battery ammeters are in the real-hard
> pile. There are many airplanes flying with
> BATTERY AMMETERS
> (Cessnas and misc) and many flying with alternator loadmeters (Pipers,
> Beechcraft, etc). . . Is one "better" than the other? If so, does
> "goodness" of the battery ammeter compel you to strive for a way to
> implement it along with b-leads taken out of the cockpit? Keep in mind
> that hall effect devices hit with high surge currents can take on a small
> "set" in reading that appears as an offset from zero. Usually
> limited to a percent or so of full scale but it bugs some folks
> to see non-zero readings of any kind when stuff is shut off. So
> running 200A starter current through a sensor which you'd like to
> have .1 amp resolution and perhaps .1 amp accuracy over the range
> of 0-60 amps is, perhaps, not a good idea either.
>
> The automotive diagnostics philosophy is to install sensors and
> taps for measuring system parameters and bringing those out to
> a diagnostics connector. Using the same idea, we could install
> loadmeter shunts, field circuit shunts, and voltage sense
> taps off all busses, batteries, field terminals and perhaps
> add some sensors for other data like alternator stator and
> diode thermocouples, oil temp, thermocouples on all cylinder
> heads, etc.
>
> You would mount the connector so that it could be accessed
> easily on the ground for maintenance diagnostics and perhaps
> even used in the air for temporarily installed instrumentation.
> This saves weight, panel space and dollars for carrying around
> instruments
> that never help you fly the airplane but provides a ready access
> to such data for diagnosis when necessary. As you've noted,
> it's easiest to install these features when the airplane is
> under construction than later.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | trim relay deck trim speed control |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Mark,
Great idea for the speed controller. Do you have any photos of how you mounted
the reversing relays on the MP Jones speed controller kit? I've built several
of this kits. They are easy to assemble and best of all, cheap. Can you supply
part numbers for the relays and your dual trim pot??
Charlie Kuss
---- Mark R Steitle <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
>
>
> Lui,
> This reply may be too late for your benefit, but I will explain how I
> approached this problem in hopes that it will help others.
>
> I used two of the pwm light dimmer kits from mpja.com, p/n 4057 MD, and
> substituted four RatShack DPDT relays (two per board) for the reversing
> switches. With a little futzing, these relays will fit into the same
> holes in the board intended for the reversing switch. These are
> activated by the coolie hat switch. One board controls the aileron
> servo, the other controls the elevator servo.
>
> The last step is to remotely mount the potentiometer. This requires a
> 3-wire harness long enough to reach the panel, or wherever you choose to
> mount it. I used a higher quality "dual" pot rather than the ones
> supplied in the kit. This way, one knob controls the speed to both
> servos.
>
> To make things really kosher, I mounted both boards in a metal project
> box and then mounted the box under the pilot's seat. Works great!
>
> Mark Steitle
> Lancair ES (N208TX)
>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lui Esc"
> ><f1rocketbuilder@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> >I have the Infinity Aeropsace Trim Relay Deck, see at
> >
> >http://www.infinityaerospace.com/Relay_Deck_Wiring_Schematic.jpg
> >
> >I am trying to install a Ray Allen Speed control for the pitch trim but
> have
> >a few ?? on the wiring.
> >
> >http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsSPD.pdf
> >
> >Not sure where to connect the red wire from the Speed control to the
> >Infinity Relay Deck. The Relay Deck only has a
> >
> >1. A port for Trim motor
> >2. B port for Trim motor
> >3. +12 v
> >4. Ground
> >
> >It doesn't have a provision for "blue wire" like shown on Diagram 2 of
> the
> >Ray Allen schematic. I guess it is so simple that I don't see it.
> >
> >
> >Thank you,
> >
> >Lui
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Final (REALLY) PMag Update - Part 2 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Stormy,
Will do. However, it will be next week.
Charlie
do not archieve
---- sportav8r@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> That will be interesting, Charlie. Let us know what you learn about the gear
hardness. Meanwhile, I will querry Brad at Emag for more details.
>
> -Stormy
>
>
> >>PS I'm on vacation this week. When I get home, I'll check the Rockwell hardness
> of some old Lycoming timing gears I have.<<
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator |
Flap
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Flap
Are we talking about a flap to control air flow or a valve to control water
flow?
If an air flap is what you want, why not do what Bingelis suggested in
"Firewall Forward" and use a $10 cowl flap actuator off a VW bug? If I
recall correctly, it expands and contracts about an inch or so, depending
on how much heat it is subjected to.
Dave Morris
(I can't believe I'm suggesting the lowest tech solution!)
At 12:09 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><nuckollsr@cox.net> Flap
>
>At 11:04 AM 8/25/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 8/25/2005 9:50:15 AM Central Standard Time,
> >bnn@nethere.com writes:
> >
> >1. Ideally I'd have a microprocessor that would take in water
> >temperature and send a proportional signal to a servo that would control
> >the radiator flap. Has anyone seen such a thing off the shelf? If not, any
> >idea how hard it would be to implement?
> >
> >2. Use a automotive cooling fan sensor to drive a servo that
> >opens/shuts the flap. I think these sensors open/close only, so the flap
> >would either open and shut as needed. (I think the time constant on the
> >system would probably be slow enough to make this work.)
> >
> > Does anyone have a better idea on how to implement this?
> >
> >How did the old Packards control their shutters?
>
>
> This doesn't take a microprocessor. You need to identify an
> actuator capable of moving the flapper valve. If the actuator
> has a built-in, position feedback pot so much the better. Would
> one of the Ray-Allen devices work?
>
> Next, you need to electrically quantify the water temperature.
> I'll suggest an LM135, 10mV/Degree_K device from National.
> Pick an operating range for door operation. Pick a top operating
> temperature and assume door will be fully open when this temperature
> is reached. Pick a temperature some degrees below the control
> point that is hopefully just above your normal cruise operating
> temperature.
>
> Set up op amp and power transistors to drive servo such that
> door is fully open at max operating and just starts to crack
> at some point just above normal cruise temps. I can develop
> a schematic and bill of materials if you need it.
>
> I proposed a similar system for the C-206/210 series aircraft
> cowl flaps about 40 years ago. We brass-boarded it and everyone
> agreed that it would be a slick accessory but installation costs
> (about $200 in 1964 dollars, $1200 in today's dollars) was
> too high for even a gold-plated option.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Switch label requirements |
HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY@roxy.matronics.com, BODY:,
HTML@roxy.matronics.com, contains@roxy.matronics.com,
text@roxy.matronics.com, after@roxy.matronics.com,
BODY@roxy.matronics.com, close@roxy.matronics.com,
tag@roxy.matronics.com
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
Eric,
These are the morsels of information that custom builders need. If you or
Bob or ? have more of them, please don't hoard them.
I agree with virtually everything Ricardo said in the articles on
cockpit/panel design. He did a great job of putting into words what we've known
for a
long time. Simplifying the cockpit can make flying more enjoyable and safer.
Thanks for sharing the information with us.
Stan Sutterfield
www.rv-8a.net
But every time I want to make any comment on the subject I review Price's
articles and am re-impressed. I highly recommend getting the back issues
from Kitplanes (on line) if you have an interest in the subject. It's a real
keeper.
http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/avionics_electronics/7273-1.phtml
http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/avionics_electronics/7272-1.phtml
http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/avionics_electronics/7271-1.phtml
Message 15
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| Subject: | Where is Shannon Knoepflein? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
The above-mentioned gentleman ran a message here about Whelen
strobe power supply wire sizes. I tried to email him with a question and 'no
address' came hurtling back.
Has anyone his present address, please?
Ferg Kyle
VE3LVO@rac.ca
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> This doesn't take a microprocessor. You need to identify an
> actuator capable of moving the flapper valve. If the actuator
> has a built-in, position feedback pot so much the better. Would
> one of the Ray-Allen devices work?
>
> Next, you need to electrically quantify the water temperature.
> I'll suggest an LM135, 10mV/Degree_K device from National.
> Pick an operating range for door operation. Pick a top operating
> temperature and assume door will be fully open when this temperature
> is reached. Pick a temperature some degrees below the control
> point that is hopefully just above your normal cruise operating
> temperature.
>
> Set up op amp and power transistors to drive servo such that
> door is fully open at max operating and just starts to crack
> at some point just above normal cruise temps. I can develop
> a schematic and bill of materials if you need it.
>
> I proposed a similar system for the C-206/210 series aircraft
> cowl flaps about 40 years ago. We brass-boarded it and everyone
> agreed that it would be a slick accessory but installation costs
> (about $200 in 1964 dollars, $1200 in today's dollars) was
> too high for even a gold-plated option.
>
Bob, I'd be *very* interested in this. I'm planning on an
electric cowl flap, and automating this would be excellent.
Thanks!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 17
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| Subject: | Where is Shannon Knoepflein? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Hildebrand" <jhildebrand@crownequip.com>
Shannon died when his Lancair crashed leaving Oshkosh last year.
Jeff Hildebrand
www.lancaires.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus
Kyle
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Where is Shannon Knoepflein?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
The above-mentioned gentleman ran a message here about Whelen
strobe power supply wire sizes. I tried to email him with a question and 'no
address' came hurtling back.
Has anyone his present address, please?
Ferg Kyle
VE3LVO@rac.ca
Message 18
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| Subject: | Where is Shannon Knoepflein? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
Sorry, to be the bearer or bad news, on his way back from a year ago's OSH,
he crashed his legacy and was killed.. Just a few miles south of Madison,
WI if I remember right :(...
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus
Kyle
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Where is Shannon Knoepflein?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
The above-mentioned gentleman ran a message here about Whelen
strobe power supply wire sizes. I tried to email him with a question and 'no
address' came hurtling back.
Has anyone his present address, please?
Ferg Kyle
VE3LVO@rac.ca
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <altoq@cebridge.net>
Does anyone have a better idea on how to implement this?
This might not be THE BETTER IDEA but, Here are some related points of food
for thought.
Besides the VW Bug cooling thermostat, many European autos use the same type
of device in the air cleaner to control intake air temperature during cold
weather starting. Remember all these devices react to air temperature.
Some Radiator fan switches are multi-stage (VW-AUDI has 3 stage) and they
sense water temperature.
What is commonly called anti-freeze is in reality also anti-boil. A 50/50
mixture of anti-freeze elevates the boiling point to ~248 degrees
Fahrenheit. The radiator cap elevates the pressure as much as 15psi or more
on late model autos. The boiling point of the coolant raises 2 degrees per
pound of cap pressure. All of this is more or less common knowledge, right
off the back of the anti-freeze jug. One lesser known fact is that the
thermostat and its bypass combine to present a roughly calibrated
restriction to coolant flow that allows the water pump to pressurize the
block and heads to an even higher level. This eliminates steam pockets in
the head and insures coolant flow distribution. It would not be a good idea
to eliminate these features in search of THE BETTER IDEA.
Coolant flow might be better controlled if a thermostat that has a positive
bypass control valve were used.
I hope some of this helps,
John D.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
This is one location to find the Volkswagen Thermostat Control Flap.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-040-198-119-KIT&Clic
k=18774
Regards
Gerry Holland
Message 21
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| Subject: | Auto Anti-Ice Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <altoq@cebridge.net>
In the process of recovering memory of devices that might be of some use for controlling
a radiator flap I remembered this. All automotive air conditioner
systems have a device that keep the Evaporator from freezing up. They were simply
a temperature controlled switch. Some of them were mechanical and employed
a temp bulb, capillary tube, and diaphragm activated switch. Later models used
a thermister and supporting circuit to switch the AC compressor on and of to
avoid ice forming in the evaporator and blocking air flow.
Both of these devices are reliable and very durable. A compressor clutch normally
pulls ~4-6 amps to engage and ~2 amps to maintain. When one fails these
little switches really catch it . The worst case I ever saw the clutch pulled
~80 amps and the switch survived.
I thought some one might want to consider using one of these switches to control
a pitot heater or carb' ice heater.
John D.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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| Subject: | trim relay deck trim speed control |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Mark,
Great idea for the speed controller. Do you have any photos of how you mounted
the reversing relays on the MP Jones speed controller kit? I've built several
of this kits. They are easy to assemble and best of all, cheap. Can you supply
part numbers for the relays and your dual trim pot??
Charlie Kuss
Charlie,
The relays are Radio Shack p/n 275-249 @ $5.29 ea. You'll need four of them.
The trim pot is a dual 50k which I got from Mouser, p/n 313-2420-50k @ $2.35/ea,
one required. The relays are DPDT. They have six leads. Four of the leads
are grouped close together, the other two which activate the solenoid and are
at the far end. These two will hang off the board on one end, so I just soldered
a lead to each, ran it out of the box, and put a molex connector on the
end. These will be attached to the coolie hat switch.
One of the relays will require that these two pins be bent flat. I bent them down
flat, soldered two leads to them, and ran them out of the box and put a molex
connector on them also.
The neat part is that the four pins that are gouped together will fit right into
the holes intended for the reversing switch. See Attached pic.
You'll end up with 16 leads coming out of the project box. They will be for +14v,
gnd, trim pot, coolie hat, ailerlon servo, and elevator servo.
Hope this helps,
Mark S.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator |
Flap
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Flap
At 01:27 PM 8/25/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
><BigD@DaveMorris.com> Flap
>
>Are we talking about a flap to control air flow or a valve to control water
>flow?
>
>If an air flap is what you want, why not do what Bingelis suggested in
>"Firewall Forward" and use a $10 cowl flap actuator off a VW bug? If I
>recall correctly, it expands and contracts about an inch or so, depending
>on how much heat it is subjected to.
>
>Dave Morris
>(I can't believe I'm suggesting the lowest tech solution!)
Dave, that's exactly the device that started the thought
processes on the 200 series Cessna cowl flap controls.
I owned a VW bug at the time and had to replace the
thermostatic controller for the air-inlet augmenter
ring so I was familiar with its function.
Our problem was getting temperatures, strokes and forces
to match our requirements . . . it was possible but not
practical due to very $high$ development costs and tooling
for production parts on a relatively low volume item (only
a couple thousand per year).
The electronic approach worked out for low development
costs and relative ease of calibration to the specific
airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Ammeter shunt sizing . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Comments/Questions: Bob, I tried to get the answer to this question from B&C
Specialties, but they are not responding. Can you tell me what the
difference is between the various Amp ratings is for 50mv shunts? Is it
just how much power each can handle, or are there resistance differences?
Why not just use a 100A shunt even though my alternator only puts out 55A?
Or did I just answer my own question: does a 100A shunt drop 50mv at 100A;
and a 50A shunt drops 50mv at 50A?
You got it. The industry standard for external shunt ammeter
movements is 50 millivolts full scale. Therefore, to achieve
any particular full scale calibation on one basic instrument,
you pick a shunt and scale plate for the same full scale value.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator |
Flap
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> Flap
At 11:27 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
><BigD@DaveMorris.com> Flap
>
>Are we talking about a flap to control air flow or a valve to control water
>flow?
I'm talking about a flap to control air flow based on the coolant
temperature. I think the VW bug air solution is too dependent on OAT to
accurately control coolant temperature to between 160 and 180F.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator |
Flap
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> Flap
At 12:49 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <altoq@cebridge.net>
>
>
> Does anyone have a better idea on how to implement this?
>
>
>This might not be THE BETTER IDEA but, Here are some related points of food
>for thought.
>
>Besides the VW Bug cooling thermostat,
I've seen that and can't use it.
>Some Radiator fan switches are multi-stage (VW-AUDI has 3 stage) and they
>sense water temperature.
I like this. I'll check it out.
>...off the back of the anti-freeze jug. One lesser known fact is that the
>thermostat and its bypass combine to present a roughly calibrated
>restriction to coolant flow that allows the water pump to pressurize the
>block and heads to an even higher level.
I didn't know this. I'll try to find out if it pertains to a Rotax 582.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator |
Flap
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> Flap
At 10:09 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
...
> This doesn't take a microprocessor. You need to identify an
> actuator capable of moving the flapper valve. If the actuator
> has a built-in, position feedback pot so much the better. Would
> one of the Ray-Allen devices work?
>
> Next, you need to electrically quantify the water temperature.
> I'll suggest an LM135, 10mV/Degree_K device from National.
> Pick an operating range for door operation. Pick a top operating
> temperature and assume door will be fully open when this temperature
> is reached. Pick a temperature some degrees below the control
> point that is hopefully just above your normal cruise operating
> temperature.
>
> Set up op amp and power transistors to drive servo such that
> door is fully open at max operating and just starts to crack
> at some point just above normal cruise temps. I can develop
> a schematic and bill of materials if you need it.
ROFLOL. You think about electronics the way I think about structures.
Unfortunately, though I understand what you said, it would take me a year
to figure out what is so painfully obvious to you! I would therefore be
ENTIRELY GRATEFUL if you would send me an estimate for what it would take
to have you put together a schematic and BoM. Of course, if the
installation's going to cost $1200 I might be somewhat less enthusiastic,
but I'd still be interested in hearing about it. And who knows, if it works
well enough I might interest a slew of other 2-stroke users as well.
Thanks a bunch,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
> Set up op amp and power transistors to drive servo such that
> door is fully open at max operating and just starts to crack
> at some point just above normal cruise temps. I can develop
> a schematic and bill of materials if you need it.
ROFLOL. You think about electronics the way I think about structures.
Unfortunately, though I understand what you said, it would take me a year
to figure out what is so painfully obvious to you! I would therefore be
ENTIRELY GRATEFUL if you would send me an estimate for what it would take
to have you put together a schematic and BoM. Of course, if the
installation's going to cost $1200 I might be somewhat less enthusiastic,
but I'd still be interested in hearing about it. And who knows, if it works
well enough I might interest a slew of other 2-stroke users as well.
Thanks a bunch,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Guy,
Don't forget the Subies and Mazda rotaries are water cooled too. There may be more
interested parties lurkng than you realize.
Mark S.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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