Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:56 AM - Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length ()
2. 05:14 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length (Dave Morris \)
4. 10:56 AM - TDR-950 Connections (Pete Howell)
5. 01:02 PM - Re: TDR-950 Connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 01:22 PM - Re: ELT Antenna Location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 01:28 PM - Re: TDR-950 Connections (Mike Larkin)
8. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: ELT Antenna Location (BPA)
9. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: ELT Antenna Location (Matt Prather)
10. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: ELT Antenna Location (Wayne)
11. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: ELT Antenna Location (PWilson)
12. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: ELT Antenna Location (Bill Denton)
13. 11:32 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
I am installing coax for the NAV and COM antennas. I understand that the length
of the cables should be trimmed to some multiple of 1/2 or full wave length
in the mid frequency range for each unit in order to maximize the performance.
It would seem that the length of the antenna elements would be a part of the overall
length in the computation.
The lengths that I have are: COM wave length @ 87.93 inches
NAV wave length @ 99.23 inches
So If I have a NAV Coax cable length of 279.25 inches would I trim off 31.19 inches
or 31.19 + 22" for the length of an antenna element?
So as to yield a lead length of 2 1/2 wave lengths.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
The coax cable has nothing to do with the length. The length only matters
in that the signal is weakened by a longer coax lead. The antenna element
is the important length. It is information readily available in the
aeroelectric manual that Bob sells. I would read it to you but mine is in
my hangar at the moment and I am home.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I am installing coax for the NAV and COM antennas. I understand that the
> length of the cables should be trimmed to some multiple of 1/2 or full
> wave length in the mid frequency range for each unit in order to maximize
> the performance.
>
> It would seem that the length of the antenna elements would be a part of
> the overall length in the computation.
> The lengths that I have are: COM wave length @ 87.93 inches
> NAV wave length @ 99.23 inches
>
> So If I have a NAV Coax cable length of 279.25 inches would I trim off
> 31.19 inches or 31.19 + 22" for the length of an antenna element?
> So as to yield a lead length of 2 1/2 wave lengths.
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
He's right. One of the great things about coax versus other feedlines is
that you can make it any length and route it virtually anywhere. Make sure
to use the right impedance for your antenna and try to keep it relatively
short to reduce losses. But don't worry about wavelengths and velocity factors.
Dave Morris
N5UP
At 07:12 AM 9/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>The coax cable has nothing to do with the length. The length only matters
>in that the signal is weakened by a longer coax lead. The antenna element
>is the important length. It is information readily available in the
>aeroelectric manual that Bob sells. I would read it to you but mine is in
>my hangar at the moment and I am home.
>
>Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Trimming Coax Cable Length
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > I am installing coax for the NAV and COM antennas. I understand that the
> > length of the cables should be trimmed to some multiple of 1/2 or full
> > wave length in the mid frequency range for each unit in order to maximize
> > the performance.
> >
> > It would seem that the length of the antenna elements would be a part of
> > the overall length in the computation.
> > The lengths that I have are: COM wave length @ 87.93 inches
> > NAV wave length @ 99.23 inches
> >
> > So If I have a NAV Coax cable length of 279.25 inches would I trim off
> > 31.19 inches or 31.19 + 22" for the length of an antenna element?
> > So as to yield a lead length of 2 1/2 wave lengths.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | TDR-950 Connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Hello,
My TDR-950 transponder has pins for external suppression and D4 for
high altitude reporting. I will use neither. Should they be left
open, or wired to ground? I found the pinout with Bob's help but I
have not located an install manual yet.
TIA - Pete
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: TDR-950 Connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:52 PM 9/1/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell"
><pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
>
>Hello,
>
>My TDR-950 transponder has pins for external suppression and D4 for
>high altitude reporting. I will use neither. Should they be left
>open, or wired to ground? I found the pinout with Bob's help but I
>have not located an install manual yet.
all of the installations I've worked with leave these
pins open if not used.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:52 AM 8/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ldodgesr@mmm.com
>
>
>ELT antenna location
>
>I am installing an ELT in my RV-6 aircraft. Since it has a plastic canopy,
>it would seem that the antenna can be installed inside the fuselage under
>the canopy. Are there any special rules regarding separation from metal
>structure such as side walls? I am aware of the common requirements, i.e.
>vertical orientation, closeness to other antennas, etc.
There are no "rules" . . . only a handful of suggestions
for optimizing performance in case the ELT is really needed.
But given all the variables that surface after the crumpling
and rolling has stopped, there is nothing you can do that will
optimize ELT operations for all foreseeable outcomes.
Given further that ELT's add almost nothing to your chances
of survival in an accident, it seems that ANY way you want
to install it will comply with the letter of Part 91 even
if it misses the intent by a country mile. Keep a VHF Comm
hand held, cellphone and GPS in your flight bag . . . if you're still
up and running after the airplane is dead, these critters
will contribute far more to your chances of survival than the
ELT.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | TDR-950 Connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin" <mlas@cox.net>
Leave them open...
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Howell
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TDR-950 Connections
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell"
<pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Hello,
My TDR-950 transponder has pins for external suppression and D4 for
high altitude reporting. I will use neither. Should they be left
open, or wired to ground? I found the pinout with Bob's help but I
have not located an install manual yet.
TIA - Pete
--
8/25/2005
--
8/25/2005
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
ELT's are installed so the insurance company can find the wreck.:-))
Monty Barrett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT Antenna Location
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:52 AM 8/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ldodgesr@mmm.com
>
>
>ELT antenna location
>
>I am installing an ELT in my RV-6 aircraft. Since it has a plastic
canopy,
>it would seem that the antenna can be installed inside the fuselage
under
>the canopy. Are there any special rules regarding separation from metal
>structure such as side walls? I am aware of the common requirements,
i.e.
>vertical orientation, closeness to other antennas, etc.
There are no "rules" . . . only a handful of suggestions
for optimizing performance in case the ELT is really needed.
But given all the variables that surface after the crumpling
and rolling has stopped, there is nothing you can do that will
optimize ELT operations for all foreseeable outcomes.
Given further that ELT's add almost nothing to your chances
of survival in an accident, it seems that ANY way you want
to install it will comply with the letter of Part 91 even
if it misses the intent by a country mile. Keep a VHF Comm
hand held, cellphone and GPS in your flight bag . . . if you're still
up and running after the airplane is dead, these critters
will contribute far more to your chances of survival than the
ELT.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
I think I would choose a rubber ducky for my ELT antenna. It is very
likely to survive the crash.
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 07:52 AM 8/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ldodgesr@mmm.com
>>
>>
>>ELT antenna location
>>
>>I am installing an ELT in my RV-6 aircraft. Since it has a plastic
>> canopy, it would seem that the antenna can be installed inside the
>> fuselage under the canopy. Are there any special rules regarding
>> separation from metal structure such as side walls? I am aware of the
>> common requirements, i.e. vertical orientation, closeness to other
>> antennas, etc.
>
> There are no "rules" . . . only a handful of suggestions
> for optimizing performance in case the ELT is really needed.
> But given all the variables that surface after the crumpling
> and rolling has stopped, there is nothing you can do that will
> optimize ELT operations for all foreseeable outcomes.
>
> Given further that ELT's add almost nothing to your chances
> of survival in an accident, it seems that ANY way you want
> to install it will comply with the letter of Part 91 even
> if it misses the intent by a country mile. Keep a VHF Comm
> hand held, cellphone and GPS in your flight bag . . . if you're still
> up and running after the airplane is dead, these critters
> will contribute far more to your chances of survival than the
> ELT.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne" <webfootboat@comcast.net>
The searches I have flown with the CAP have proven to me that "if" the
ELT is working the downed aircraft is way easier to find, and there is
always family members waiting for some word, never have seen an
insurance adjuster.
My .02 worth
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT Antenna Location
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
ELT's are installed so the insurance company can find the wreck.:-))
Monty Barrett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT Antenna Location
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:52 AM 8/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ldodgesr@mmm.com
>
>
>ELT antenna location
>
>I am installing an ELT in my RV-6 aircraft. Since it has a plastic
canopy,
>it would seem that the antenna can be installed inside the fuselage
under
>the canopy. Are there any special rules regarding separation from metal
>structure such as side walls? I am aware of the common requirements,
i.e.
>vertical orientation, closeness to other antennas, etc.
There are no "rules" . . . only a handful of suggestions
for optimizing performance in case the ELT is really needed.
But given all the variables that surface after the crumpling
and rolling has stopped, there is nothing you can do that will
optimize ELT operations for all foreseeable outcomes.
Given further that ELT's add almost nothing to your chances
of survival in an accident, it seems that ANY way you want
to install it will comply with the letter of Part 91 even
if it misses the intent by a country mile. Keep a VHF Comm
hand held, cellphone and GPS in your flight bag . . . if you're still
up and running after the airplane is dead, these critters
will contribute far more to your chances of survival than the
ELT.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
Another perspective.
Way to much worries about ELTs. Install the cheapest ELT that meets
the FAA requirements and don't depend on it. Then buy a sat phone. If
you survive the event and have a handy list of phone numbers and a
minimal GPS then you are set. In N America weather permitting you
could expect the SAR chopper to be there pretty quick. The cost of
the phone is pretty cheap insurance and they usually include a few
free minutes each month. Weight - the things are not light weight -
less than an elt. They have wide use for explorers and mountain
climbers. If you are watching the news lately some of the video is
via sat phone. Nice thing about a sat phone, unlike a cell phone, it
works anywhere. BTW, there are two sat phone providers and they have
used and rental handsets available.
An example would be the desert racers where each team has a bunch of
sat phones and the phone numbers for each other, and for the rescue
and chase choppers for the events. The sat phones are credited for
many life saving incidents. When traveling alone a hundred miles from
a town which can provide no help for a broken vehicle its nice to
call your buddy in San Diego and have him bring a trailer to bring
you home. That method may take a couple of days and hopefully is not
life threatening. This kind if happening probably is something that
is done all the time with no fanfare and no dealings with the Mexican
authorities. A big advantage.
The local hiking club here in Colorado has one they pass from
leader to leader, trip to trip. The first time they tested it they
dialed 911. Ha, they got a message in French. No way to make the
prearranged call to the local sheriff. Just goes to show you need to
have an appropriate number to call. Like your evacuation insurance
company or the sheriff in the jurisdiction where you are located or
all of them along your flight path. Not hard to get the numbers if
one does homework before departing. I suppose one could even call the
FAA/NTSB for more trouble than you would want. :-)
Of course the cell phone and GPS are legendary for getting
immediate rescue. Lots of stories using that method as well, but not
much help in some parts of the world. Trouble is planes don't usually
end up on a high peak or ridge for acceptable cell reception. They
usually end up in the bottom of the canyon. The sat phone has a good
chance like the GPS or ELT of getting a usable signal.
Regards, Paul
====================
At 02:21 PM 9/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 07:52 AM 8/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ldodgesr@mmm.com
> >
> >
> >ELT antenna location
> >
> >I am installing an ELT in my RV-6 aircraft. Since it has a plastic canopy,
> >it would seem that the antenna can be installed inside the fuselage under
> >the canopy. Are there any special rules regarding separation from metal
> >structure such as side walls? I am aware of the common requirements, i.e.
> >vertical orientation, closeness to other antennas, etc.
>
> There are no "rules" . . . only a handful of suggestions
> for optimizing performance in case the ELT is really needed.
> But given all the variables that surface after the crumpling
> and rolling has stopped, there is nothing you can do that will
> optimize ELT operations for all foreseeable outcomes.
>
> Given further that ELT's add almost nothing to your chances
> of survival in an accident, it seems that ANY way you want
> to install it will comply with the letter of Part 91 even
> if it misses the intent by a country mile. Keep a VHF Comm
> hand held, cellphone and GPS in your flight bag . . . if you're still
> up and running after the airplane is dead, these critters
> will contribute far more to your chances of survival than the
> ELT.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
How fast can you dial a number when you are unconscious?
How fast can you dial a number when two broken arms?
From the beginning of serious injury to death covers a pretty broad range,
and a properly installed ELT will trigger when the plane crashes; you don't
have to dial any numbers.
A 121.5 mhz unit is now about $200. A 406 mhz unit is now available for less
than $1,000.
And I imagine that when you regain consciousness after a long night out in
the middle of South Dakota or some place, you'd really wish you'd dropped
the grand...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
PWilson
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT Antenna Location
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
Another perspective.
Way to much worries about ELTs. Install the cheapest ELT that meets
the FAA requirements and don't depend on it. Then buy a sat phone. If
you survive the event and have a handy list of phone numbers and a
minimal GPS then you are set. In N America weather permitting you
could expect the SAR chopper to be there pretty quick. The cost of
the phone is pretty cheap insurance and they usually include a few
free minutes each month. Weight - the things are not light weight -
less than an elt. They have wide use for explorers and mountain
climbers. If you are watching the news lately some of the video is
via sat phone. Nice thing about a sat phone, unlike a cell phone, it
works anywhere. BTW, there are two sat phone providers and they have
used and rental handsets available.
An example would be the desert racers where each team has a bunch of
sat phones and the phone numbers for each other, and for the rescue
and chase choppers for the events. The sat phones are credited for
many life saving incidents. When traveling alone a hundred miles from
a town which can provide no help for a broken vehicle its nice to
call your buddy in San Diego and have him bring a trailer to bring
you home. That method may take a couple of days and hopefully is not
life threatening. This kind if happening probably is something that
is done all the time with no fanfare and no dealings with the Mexican
authorities. A big advantage.
The local hiking club here in Colorado has one they pass from
leader to leader, trip to trip. The first time they tested it they
dialed 911. Ha, they got a message in French. No way to make the
prearranged call to the local sheriff. Just goes to show you need to
have an appropriate number to call. Like your evacuation insurance
company or the sheriff in the jurisdiction where you are located or
all of them along your flight path. Not hard to get the numbers if
one does homework before departing. I suppose one could even call the
FAA/NTSB for more trouble than you would want. :-)
Of course the cell phone and GPS are legendary for getting
immediate rescue. Lots of stories using that method as well, but not
much help in some parts of the world. Trouble is planes don't usually
end up on a high peak or ridge for acceptable cell reception. They
usually end up in the bottom of the canyon. The sat phone has a good
chance like the GPS or ELT of getting a usable signal.
Regards, Paul
====================
At 02:21 PM 9/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 07:52 AM 8/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ldodgesr@mmm.com
> >
> >
> >ELT antenna location
> >
> >I am installing an ELT in my RV-6 aircraft. Since it has a plastic
canopy,
> >it would seem that the antenna can be installed inside the fuselage under
> >the canopy. Are there any special rules regarding separation from metal
> >structure such as side walls? I am aware of the common requirements, i.e.
> >vertical orientation, closeness to other antennas, etc.
>
> There are no "rules" . . . only a handful of suggestions
> for optimizing performance in case the ELT is really needed.
> But given all the variables that surface after the crumpling
> and rolling has stopped, there is nothing you can do that will
> optimize ELT operations for all foreseeable outcomes.
>
> Given further that ELT's add almost nothing to your chances
> of survival in an accident, it seems that ANY way you want
> to install it will comply with the letter of Part 91 even
> if it misses the intent by a country mile. Keep a VHF Comm
> hand held, cellphone and GPS in your flight bag . . . if you're still
> up and running after the airplane is dead, these critters
> will contribute far more to your chances of survival than the
> ELT.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com
Dear Lister,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
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******************************************************************************
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- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
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quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
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then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
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your response with the original poster's email address.
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
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- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
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- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
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will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
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