Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: Ammeter Shunt connection (Bruce Niles)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: P-Mag as back-up alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:48 AM - Re: Ammeter Shunt connection (Speedy11@aol.com)
4. 07:12 AM - Reference documents reorganization (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:10 AM - Re: Reference documents reorganization (Mickey Coggins)
6. 08:34 AM - Re: Beginner circuits (_)
7. 08:44 AM - Shower of Sparks installation help ()
8. 10:10 AM - Oil cooler lines as ground return (Scott Derrick)
9. 10:14 AM - Overvoltage protection and Nippon Denso alternator (Ron Patterson)
10. 11:32 AM - Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return (Eric M. Jones)
11. 11:52 AM - Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return (Dave Morris \)
12. 01:41 PM - Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return (Jim Baker)
13. 02:59 PM - Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return (Scott Derrick)
14. 03:29 PM - Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return (Ed Anderson)
15. 05:02 PM - Matronics Web Server Upgrade Today Tuesday 09/06/05 5pm PDT (Matt Dralle)
16. 05:34 PM - SlickSTART Installation Help ()
17. 06:29 PM - Re: Reference documents reorganization (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 06:31 PM - Re: Beginner circuits (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 06:31 PM - Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return (Kevin Horton)
20. 08:12 PM - Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return (Robert G. Wright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt connection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Niles" <bniles@cfl.rr.com>
Hi Stan,
I thought you were using BMA's EFIS/one? The EFIS/one uses the little
doughnut type sensors you can from BMA. They measure +/- 100amps and connect
to any of the processor's voltage inputs. Hope this was what you are
looking for. B Niles
----- Original Message -----
From: <Speedy11@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ammeter Shunt connection
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
> Bob,
> Sorry to be so long in replying.
> Your question was,
> Okay, what are your recommendations for installation of an ammeter?
> What current parameter(s) are you interested in and how would you
> use them in flight?
> I don't have recommendations for installation. That's what I asking. How
> best to install sensors at the locations I want to monitor. Should I use
> HE
> devices? I'd like to monitor the volts and amps at my main battery,
> standby
> battery, main bus, standby bus, alternator B lead, and avionics bus. It
> doesn't
> matter how I will use them in flight! I simply want to know what type of
> sensor is best for the task and how best to install them in my airplane.
> Don't
> need philosophy, just technical information.
> Your statement was,
> I'm mystified by this assertion. I've had flight instructors tell
> me that ALL displays on the panel are ESSENTIAL else the very wise
> folks
> who designed and/or regulated the configuration of the airplane
> would not have included them on the panel. The same instructors
> could not describe how an ammeter or voltmeter was used to enhance
> probability of a sweat-free arrival with the earth that was
> any more illuminating than having a low voltage warning light
> telling me to switch to plan-B or plan-C.
> Mystified or not, I still want to be able to monitor readings at various
> places in the electrical system. My question remains the same - how to do
> it?
> Your statement was,
> Okay, tell us your goals. I'll suggest that your primary goal
> for the day is travel from point A to point B without breaking a
> sweat. I'll further suggest that it is of no value to you as
> pilot to know exactly WHY an alternator has quit, it's only
> useful to know it has quit and that it's time to implement a
> pre-planned, very predictable alternative such that sweat-free
> arrival is assured. All the voltmeters and ammeters in the world
> won't help you out if you don't have pre-planned alternatives.
> If you DO have pre-planned alternatives, then the voltmeters and
> ammeters are surplus to the mission while airborne.
>
> Once you're on the ground, likelihood that ammeters and voltmeters
> as-installed will reveal everything you need to zero in on
> root cause of failure is remote . . . there are not enough readings
> available from the rudimentary installations of such displays.
>
> You can use an airspeed indicator to fine-tune an approach, how
> do you use a voltmeter or ammeter to fine-tune endurance?
> You needn't suggest goals for me. My goal is to monitor readings at
> various
> locations throughout the electrical system. I may or may not use them in
> an
> emergency situation. I will decide as I develop my emergency plans for my
> aircraft. Regardless, I want to monitor voltage and amps at various
> locations in
> my electrical system. How can that best be done? It seems to me that I
> can
> accomplish the desired goal of monitoring the electrical system by using
> HE
> devices at the locations mentioned in the first paragraph. I want to be
> able to
> use a selector switch to choose which sensor to display on the engine
> monitor.
> I'd also like to download data after landing to analyse later, perhaps
> more
> data than I display in flight.
> It doesn't matter if I have a plan B or C, or why I want to monitor the
> electrics, or what my paradigm is for alternator failure is. I just want
> to know
> how to monitor volts and amps at numerous places within the electrical
> system.
> Anyone?
> Stan Sutterfield
> Tampa, FL
>
>
> In a message dated 8/27/2005 3:02:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>> >Bob,
>> >I have to disagree. His cart is not ahead of the horse. He is
>> >suggesting
>> >that as we build an airplane, we build in the diagnostic equipment
>> >necessary to
>> >analyse the electrical system. I have to agree with that concept. And
> your
>> >answer indicates you advocate building in diagnostic equipment as well.
>> >In your final paragraph, you said doing the diagnostics on the ground
> "saves
>> >weight, panel space and dollars for carrying around instruments that
>> >never
>> >help you fly the airplane but provides a ready access to such data for
>> >diagnosis
>> >when necessary." However, the sensors will be installed whether used on
> the
>> >ground or in the air, so no weight or money is saved. The sensors can
>> >be
>> >connected for display on the engine monitor that is already going to be
>> >on
>> >board,
>> >so no weight or savings there.
>> >I am one who likes to have as much information as I desire while
>> analysing an
>> >airborne situation.
>
> Okay, what are your recommendations for installation of an ammeter?
> What current parameter(s) are you interested in and how would you
> use them in flight?
>
>
>> So, I prefer to have the voltage and load at numerous
>> >places throughout the electrical system. Perhaps I am so ignorant of
>> >electricity that I don't even know what I'm seeing on the readings, but
>> >I
>> >still want to see them.
>
> I'm mystified by this assertion. I've had flight instructors tell
> me that ALL displays on the panel are ESSENTIAL else the very wise
> folks
> who designed and/or regulated the configuration of the airplane
> would not have included them on the panel. The same instructors
> could not describe how an ammeter or voltmeter was used to enhance
> probability of a sweat-free arrival with the earth that was
> any more illuminating than having a low voltage warning light
> telling me to switch to plan-B or plan-C.
>
>> >So, if that is our desire, rather than trying to convince us that we
>> >don't
>> >need the information displayed, how about helping us determine the best
>> >methods
>> >to achieve our goals - that is, display of desired system indications.
>> >We aren't necessarily looking for a philosophical disccussion on why an
>> >alternator ammeter is better or worse or more useful/less useful than a
>> >battery
>> >ammeter. We are simply asking how to accomplish what we want to
>> >achieve.
>> >I don't know how much weight or cost it will add to my project to be
>> >able
> to
>> >monitor the electrons at the alternator, main bus, standby bus, battery
> bus,
>> >main battery, standby battery, etc. And I don't care - I just want to
>> >know how
>> >best to do it.
>
> Okay, tell us your goals. I'll suggest that your primary goal
> for the day is travel from point A to point B without breaking a
> sweat. I'll further suggest that it is of no value to you as
> pilot to know exactly WHY an alternator has quit, it's only
> useful to know it has quit and that it's time to implement a
> pre-planned, very predictable alternative such that sweat-free
> arrival is assured. All the voltmeters and ammeters in the world
> won't help you out if you don't have pre-planned alternatives.
> If you DO have pre-planned alternatives, then the voltmeters and
> ammeters are surplus to the mission while airborne.
>
> Once you're on the ground, likelihood that ammeters and voltmeters
> as-installed will reveal everything you need to zero in on
> root cause of failure is remote . . . there are not enough readings
> available from the rudimentary installations of such displays.
>
> You can use an airspeed indicator to fine-tune an approach, how
> do you use a voltmeter or ammeter to fine-tune endurance?
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: P-Mag as back-up alternator |
cast.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> Figure Z-13/8 of your AeroElectric Connection "features" dual
> P-Mags, but with a separate back-up B&C SD-8 alternator. I have been
> told that the alternator built into the P-Mags can be used not only to
> power themselves in case of a power problem, but also to power other
> items (i.e. an E-bus), eliminating the need for a separate back-up
> alternator. Any thoughts on this? (One of those things that sounds too
> good to be true&) I haven't seen this discussed in the Matronics threads.
The alternators built into p-mags are sized only to
supply the needs of the ignition system and cannot
(should not) be tapped for other purposes.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt connection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
Bob,
Thanks for your response.
Stan Sutterfield
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 9/6/2005 2:57:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Shunts work well, Hall effect devices work well. If you want analog
displays (pointers) then you're more likely to find suitable instruments
that work with shunts. Most HE systems will be set up for digital displays.
<snip>
>You needn't suggest goals for me. My goal is to monitor readings at various
>locations throughout the electrical system. I may or may not use them in an
>emergency situation. I will decide as I develop my emergency plans for my
>aircraft. Regardless, I want to monitor voltage and amps at various
>locations in
>my electrical system. How can that best be done? It seems to me that I can
>accomplish the desired goal of monitoring the electrical system by using HE
>devices at the locations mentioned in the first paragraph. I want to be
>able to
>use a selector switch to choose which sensor to display on the engine
>monitor.
> I'd also like to download data after landing to analyse later, perhaps
more
>data than I display in flight.
>It doesn't matter if I have a plan B or C, or why I want to monitor the
>electrics, or what my paradigm is for alternator failure is. I just want
>to know
>how to monitor volts and amps at numerous places within the electrical
system.
>Anyone?
If you're handy with programming (or know someone who is) then
one can craft a data acquisition system that will meet your
needs. I build several systems per year to investigate specific
system malfunctions . . . but these are always PC based using
some COTS data acquisition products. Some of my favorites are
http://weedtech.com/ and http://labjack.com/labjack_u12.html
These are really easy to use and can be configured to accept
data through a diagnostics/monitoring port like I described last
week at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdf/Electrical_System_Diagn
ostics.pdf
At the present time, I'm aware of no one who offers equipment
designed to permanently install in your airplane for the purposes
you've described.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Reference documents reorganization |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Spent some time reorganizing the reference documents and crafted
a table of contents page to make things easier to find. See
table of contents at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Reference documents reorganization |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
One trick I use for searching your site, and others, is
to use Google. Here's an example if I want to search
for the word diode:
site:aeroelectric.com diode
The organization is great for when you are just browsing.
Mickey
> Spent some time reorganizing the reference documents and crafted
> a table of contents page to make things easier to find. See
> table of contents at:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Beginner circuits |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
Bob,
Purchased a copy of 5th ed. Floyd. The cd has solutions for exercises in
a password protected .zip file. Tried the publisher's website and several
search engines to no avail. Any help you could offer on acquiring a password
would be appreciated.
Raymond J.
Kettle River, MN
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beginner circuits
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> Goto
>
http://www.abebooks.com/?cm_ven=ggl&cm_cat=us-search&cm_pla=usedbooks&cm_ite=used%20books&afsrc=1
>
> and search on Author: Floyd and Title: Electronics Fundamentals
>
> You'll see a variety of listings for these Merrill publications edited
> by T. L. Floyd. 6th edition is current for over $100. ANY prior edition
> is worth the $ and you can get 2-4th editions for well under $10.
>
> These are well illustrated, well organized texts for anyone interested
> in starting a new discipline or honing an old one. I keep copies around
> to hand out to budding experimenters.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Shower of Sparks installation help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Neil K Clayton
<harvey4@earthlink.net>
<<I'm in real need of some guidance on my S-o-S installation and I need
to TALK to someone who knows there way around these things.
Could someone who's done, or has, a S-o-S set-up please give me their
phone number? Many thanks Neil>>
9/6/2005
Hello Neil, I know your frustration well. I went through the same process
over several months before getting the information needed. But I am not
inclined to work the problem with you over the telephone, at least at this
stage of the game. Several visual / documented parameters have to be
established first in order to make such a conversation effective.
Let me make some comments for your consideration:
1) If you are actually considering a true Bendix / TCM ancient technology
S-o-S system, don't do it. That is like going out and attempting to buy and
use a vacuum tube black and white television set -- it represents a
difficult backward leap.
2) Instead buy and install a Unison SlickSTART solid state magneto start
booster. The performance is vastly superior to the mechanical vibrator
technology in the S-o-S system.
http://www.unisonindustries.com/products/ignition.html
3) I can provide you the details of how to connect a SlickSTART better than
Unison. All of their instructions are aimed at replacing an existing S-o-S
unit with a SlickSTART and don't provide the pin out information needed. You
can find Unison's SlickSTART installation instructions with Google.
4) I hope that you are not using a key switch ignition switch. That is
undesirable and will complicate your installation, but can be done if must
be.
5) Bendix published a booklet L-576-3, revised in March 1971, called "The
ABC's of the Bendix Shower of Sparks Ignition System". I have a copy and if
you can't get one elsewhere I would be willing to photo copy it and mail
that copy to you. The booklet deals with the S-o-S system, not the keyed
ignition switch if that is your connection problem area.
Looking forward to helping you if I can.
OC
Message 8
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| Subject: | Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
I have a nose oil cooler in my Velocity.
I am replacing the existing heavy high pressure hydraulic
type(rubbercoverd /braided steel) oil cooler lines with lighter bare
metal lines. I'm planning soft copper 1/2" lines, with shrink wrap over
them.
I would like to use the lines as my ground return and remove the 2 AWG
wire I have now. I would tie the two copper lines together at the fire
wall and oil cooler with soldered braided cable to make them a single
return. Good idea?
I have a big engine and the starter needs all the current I can muster.
I have a 00 welding cable for my positive line from the starter to the
battery. Alternator uses the same wire for charging battery.
Scott
Message 9
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| Subject: | Overvoltage protection and Nippon Denso alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
I'm using the 1987 Suzuki alternator (new) that is internally regulated. Is there
any purpose to adding the OVP module? (I ordered it from B and C) and if so,
how would it be wired in?
Ron P..
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
snip >>
I would like to use the lines as my ground return and remove the 2 AWG
wire I have now. I would tie the two copper lines together at the fire
wall and oil cooler with soldered braided cable to make them a single
return. Good idea?
>>snip
Scott--
Exactly too-clever-by-half.
In any circuit you can be clever and use fluid/gas lines as conductors.
(However, there are laws proscribing many of these arrangements). But if
they break when you're starting the engine, the fluid/gas will
burn....sayonara amigo.
So perhaps the question should be--how soon should your widow re-marry?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Couple hundred amps of electrical current, a high pressure oil line leak...
sounds like spewing fire to me. Bad idea dude. Most builders take special
care to make sure such braided or metal lines can never be used even
accidentally as a ground return path like that.
Dave Morris
At 12:08 PM 9/6/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>
>I have a nose oil cooler in my Velocity.
>
>I am replacing the existing heavy high pressure hydraulic
>type(rubbercoverd /braided steel) oil cooler lines with lighter bare
>metal lines. I'm planning soft copper 1/2" lines, with shrink wrap over
>them.
>
>I would like to use the lines as my ground return and remove the 2 AWG
>wire I have now. I would tie the two copper lines together at the fire
>wall and oil cooler with soldered braided cable to make them a single
>return. Good idea?
>
>I have a big engine and the starter needs all the current I can muster.
>
>I have a 00 welding cable for my positive line from the starter to the
>battery. Alternator uses the same wire for charging battery.
>
>Scott
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> I am replacing the existing heavy high pressure hydraulic
> type(rubbercoverd /braided steel) oil cooler lines with lighter bare
> metal lines. I'm planning soft copper 1/2" lines, with shrink wrap
> over them.
Besides, I'd think double hard about using copper in an oil line.
Copper isn't really happy with acids that can form in oils and may
lead to formicary (look it up...nasty stuff) corrosion. I'd abandon the
copper idea......
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
Actually from everything I've read copper is much better than aluminum
in the area of corrosion resistance. Much much better.
In regards to using the oil lines as ground return, I've had about
2/3rds say yes, and 1/3rd say no...
I also have had two different folks that are running with copper oil
lines as ground returns for 5+ years.
Scott
Jim Baker wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
>
>
>
>>I am replacing the existing heavy high pressure hydraulic
>>type(rubbercoverd /braided steel) oil cooler lines with lighter bare
>>metal lines. I'm planning soft copper 1/2" lines, with shrink wrap
>>over them.
>>
>>
>
>Besides, I'd think double hard about using copper in an oil line.
>Copper isn't really happy with acids that can form in oils and may
>lead to formicary (look it up...nasty stuff) corrosion. I'd abandon the
>copper idea......
>
>Jim Baker
>580.788.2779
>'71 SV, 492TC
>Elmore City, OK
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Scott, I'd be more concerned about vibration work hardening the copper
lines. The copper lines I have worked with were fairly lacking in
resistance to fatigue. Might want to have folks who know more than I in
this area comment on this factor.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Derrick" <scott@tnstaafl.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Oil cooler lines as ground return
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Derrick
> <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>
> Actually from everything I've read copper is much better than aluminum
> in the area of corrosion resistance. Much much better.
>
> In regards to using the oil lines as ground return, I've had about
> 2/3rds say yes, and 1/3rd say no...
>
> I also have had two different folks that are running with copper oil
> lines as ground returns for 5+ years.
>
> Scott
>
> Jim Baker wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker"
>><jlbaker@telepath.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I am replacing the existing heavy high pressure hydraulic
>>>type(rubbercoverd /braided steel) oil cooler lines with lighter bare
>>>metal lines. I'm planning soft copper 1/2" lines, with shrink wrap
>>>over them.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Besides, I'd think double hard about using copper in an oil line.
>>Copper isn't really happy with acids that can form in oils and may
>>lead to formicary (look it up...nasty stuff) corrosion. I'd abandon the
>>copper idea......
>>
>>Jim Baker
>>580.788.2779
>>'71 SV, 492TC
>>Elmore City, OK
>>
>>
>>.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Upgrade Today Tuesday 09/06/05 |
5pm PDT
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I will be taking the Matronics Web Server down for a few hours today,
Tuesday September 6 2005 for a chassis upgrade. Archive browsing and
searching along with subscription services will be unavailable for
about 2 hours beginning at 5pm PDT. Incoming and outgoing email will
be processed normally during the upgrade. Please check the Matronics
System Status Page for updates (although this page resides on the web
server and won't be available during the upgrade):
http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 16
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| Subject: | SlickSTART Installation Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
9/6/2005
Hello Neil, I am sure that we can whip this thing into shape. You do have
two things that complicate the situation a bit: The key start switch and the
"swapped mags".
You will have to decide how you want to resolve those complications. There
is nothing physically wrong with either one of the complications (except for
the crappy reliability of the key switch), but putting the system together
while following written instructions or wiring diagrams for a different
arrangement will be sort of like trying to write your name on a piece of
paper with a pencil while viewing the paper in a mirror.
Let's talk some generalities first:
There is nothing wrong with having one mag with a properly functioning
impulse coupling and one mag with retard breaker points fed by a starting
vibrator on your engine. It is sort of a "both belt and suspenders" approach
that can provide a retarded spark from both mags while cranking.
On could even argue that having the impulse coupled mag installed gives one
the potential of starting the engine by hand propping if the battery is too
dead to either run the starter or the starting vibrator -- but I am not a
big fan of hand propping and certainly would not encourage anyone to go
flying with a battery so dead that the plane had to be hand propped.
On the other hand if the non retard breaker mag on an engine does not have a
properly functioning impulse coupling installed then one must take steps to
ground that mag out while cranking the engine to ensure that the non impulse
coupled mag does not fire at twenty some degrees before top dead center
(TDC) and create a vicious kick back. The grounding out can be accomplished
either by the way the starting switch wiring is connected or by the way the
starting vibrator is connected provided the system is built to accomplish
the needed grounding.
With those generalities out of the way lets identify the pin in and out of
the SlickSTART (SS1001)vibrator. I will not use the terms left and right.
IMPORTANT: Note that the SS1001 is not to be used with TCM/Bendix mags per
SL2-96 and L-1492. Instead SS 1002 is to be used. You can find SL2-96
through Google.
Pin VIN is the electrical supply into the unit. One easy way to feed this
pin is to connect a wire from the output side of the starter solenoid
through a 5 amp fuse to this pin. Then whenever you are feeding electricity
to the starter you are also feeding the SlickSTART vibrator. You can also
feed a light in the cockpit from this same solenoid connection that will
show that electricity is going to your starter. After the engine has started
and the starter key is released this light should go out telling you that
the starter solenoid is no longer sending electricity to the starter. (Note:
It is still possible for some malfunction of the starter itself to cause it
to remain engaged.)
Pin GND gets connected to a grounding screw on the retard breaker magneto
being fed by the vibrator.
Pin 1 gets connected to the P lead terminal of the retard breaker magneto
being fed by the vibrator. This is the wire that gets the high voltage
pulses to the primary circuit of that mag.
Pin 2 gets connected to the P lead of the non retard breaker magneto IF THAT
MAGNETO DOES NOT HAVE AN IMPULSE COUPLING. The purpose of this pin and wire
is to ground out the magneto that it is connected to so that it can not fire
an advanced (twenty some degrees before TDC) spark while the engine is
cranking. If the non retard breaker magneto has a properly functioning
impulse coupling then this wire is not needed.
Pin 3 gets connected to the retard breaker terminal of the magneto that is
so equipped. The function of this pin and wire is to tell Pin 1 to shoot the
juice only when the retard breaker points are open which will be near top
dead center. This provides the retarded spark which is desired while the
engine is cranking.
That is it. With the above info you can wire your system. You can switch
mags from side to side if you are more comfortable with the left and right
terminology where the retard breaker mag is usually on the left hand side or
you can leave the mags where they are and relable the wiring diagrams until
you are confident that you can wire it properly.
The wiring kit that came with your SlickSTART unit is helpful for the wiring
job, but is not mandatory.
While the Bendix book is not right on point for your system it may help you
understand the concept a little better. I don't have it in electronic form,
but if you will email me your snail mail address direct I will put a copy in
the mail to you.
Please let me know if I can be of further help.
OC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil K Clayton" <harvey4@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Shower of Sparks installation help
> OC....thank you so much for your reply! You hit on the nature of my
> problems exactly! Sounds like you went round the same circle.
> (It doesn't help that I'm a Mech Engineer, convinced that anything
> electrical is actually magic).
>
> The used Lyc O-360-A1A engine I bought has the usual two mags, but oddly
> configured; the left mag has an impulse coupler, and the right mag has a
> "S-o-S" label. So that's problem #1 - they seem the "wrong" way round" or
> at least mutually exclusive. Nuckoll's S-o-S white-paper shows the usual
> OFF-L-R-Both-Start switch, but wired to the left mag as the vibrator mag.
>
> Second, I DO have Unison's Slickstart that you refer to, (for $360, gulp!)
> but as you say, the installation manual gives installation details as if
> you're replacing an original vibrator. Trouble is I'm not replacing
> anything. so the manual's obscure for my purposes. Also, the Slickstart
> doesn't have the simple "IN" & "BO" terminals, but 5 different terminals,
> so I'm having trouble translating what's what.
>
> I think it's probably simple, (they're only mags after all) but I've been
> nagging at it so long I can't see the wood for the trees now. I need
> someone who "knows" mags to slap me round the head and make me think
> straight.
>
> Your offer of "how to wire the Slickstart" is what I need.
> And yes, I am using the key ignition switch, more for nostalgic reason
> than anything else - it'as what I learned on (Piper). I guess I could
> scrap it, but I'm a long way along with the other wiring now.
> The Bendix booklet sounds like it might really help. Could I pls ask for a
> copy?
>
> Thanks for the rescue!
>
> Neil
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Reference documents reorganization |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:08 PM 9/6/2005 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>One trick I use for searching your site, and others, is
>to use Google. Here's an example if I want to search
>for the word diode:
>
> site:aeroelectric.com diode
>
>The organization is great for when you are just browsing.
>
>Mickey
Thanks. It's at least a start. I have a LOT of work to do
yet to create some better indexing techniques than to simply
allow the reader to browse by file name. This is a learn-it-as-
you go process. If anyone had told me 10 years ago that I
would be trying to put my arms around 150 Meg of data with
only about half the planned works still unposted, I would
have found it difficult to believe. This website thingy is
a really powerful tool but it's not simple either!
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Beginner circuits |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:34 AM 9/6/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>
> Bob,
>
> Purchased a copy of 5th ed. Floyd. The cd has solutions for exercises in
>a password protected .zip file. Tried the publisher's website and several
>search engines to no avail. Any help you could offer on acquiring a password
>would be appreciated.
Shucks dude, you've jumped about 3 editions farther ahead than the
giveaway copies I've been buying. I wasn't aware that they'd expanded
their tools with CDs . . . neat idea but fraught with problems for the
second hand users. Wish I could help.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 6 Sep 2005, at 17:57, Scott Derrick wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Derrick
> <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>
> Actually from everything I've read copper is much better than aluminum
> in the area of corrosion resistance. Much much better.
>
> In regards to using the oil lines as ground return, I've had about
> 2/3rds say yes, and 1/3rd say no...
>
> I also have had two different folks that are running with copper oil
> lines as ground returns for 5+ years.
>
That's like saying you aren't worried about engine failures because
you've never had one. Two people don't make a large enough sample
size to be able to say that the risk is zero.
A problem with starter current going through the oil line might not
be too likely, but if you have a problem it could easily lead to a
fire and loss of the aircraft. Is the problem you are trying to
solve serious enough that you are willing to risk losing the aircraft
to fix it?
Message 20
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| Subject: | Oil cooler lines as ground return |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Maybe the current will magnetize the suspended particulate in the oil to the
wall of the tubing and make for a longer time between oil changes??
:]
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Oil cooler lines as ground return
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 6 Sep 2005, at 17:57, Scott Derrick wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Derrick
> <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>
> Actually from everything I've read copper is much better than aluminum
> in the area of corrosion resistance. Much much better.
>
> In regards to using the oil lines as ground return, I've had about
> 2/3rds say yes, and 1/3rd say no...
>
> I also have had two different folks that are running with copper oil
> lines as ground returns for 5+ years.
>
That's like saying you aren't worried about engine failures because
you've never had one. Two people don't make a large enough sample
size to be able to say that the risk is zero.
A problem with starter current going through the oil line might not
be too likely, but if you have a problem it could easily lead to a
fire and loss of the aircraft. Is the problem you are trying to
solve serious enough that you are willing to risk losing the aircraft
to fix it?
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