Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: Battery is not charging (Carlos Trigo)
2. 06:35 AM - Re: Battery is not charging (Bill Denton)
3. 06:51 AM - Re: DC to DC converter (Eric M. Jones)
4. 09:31 AM - Re: Battery is not charging (Jim Baker)
5. 10:03 AM - Re: Battery is not charging (Carlos Trigo)
6. 11:01 AM - Re: Battery is not charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 11:02 AM - Re: Battery is not charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Use a 28vdc alternator in 14vdc system? ()
9. 12:12 PM - Re: Re: DC to DC converter (Bob McCallum)
10. 01:02 PM - Re: RV 10 wiring architecture (Dave & Brenda Emond)
11. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: Use a 28vdc alternator in 14vdc (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 05:20 PM - elec smoke smell (Guy and Jill Foreman)
13. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: RV 10 wiring architecture (brian bollaert)
14. 06:32 PM - Re: elec smoke smell (Richard Riley)
15. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: RV 10 wiring architecture (Kevin Horton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Battery is not charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Bill, Matt, Bob
Thanks for your answers.
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
>
> Do you know if the system ever actually charged the battery - kept the bus
> voltage above 14v? In other words, was the system wired correctly?
Yes. Since 1999
> When you say "measuring the generator output" what do you mean? With the
> engine running?
Yes, at idle but also at around 2500RPM. But yesterday, when we measured
between the 2 yellow wires of the generator not connected to the system, we
got 0 (zero, nada), therefore the down indicated conclusion.
> If you don't have a schematic of the system, draw
> one up - take a notepad, pencil and DMM to the hangar and doodle > it out
> nothing fancy. Compare what's doodled to what's on one of
> the Bob's Rotax diagrams. Even if the system is designed/installed
> okay, the exercise will help you debug the system.
I'll try to do it, because the iniyial builder didn't do it and I have none.
> Does the system have an alternator disconnect relay?
No
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> Get the battery tender. Hook it up for 24 hours or more. Fly the
> airplane while watching voltage and report your findings back
> to us. It would also be helpful to have an alternator loadmeter
> installed so that you can see if the alternator is "working hard"
> or "broke".
I am going to try this one, before dismounting the generator from the
engine.
But from our last measuring, as indicated above, we believe the ROTAX
alternator/generator has really passed away...
That means 480 euros($600) + labour!
Thanks again
Carlos
Message 2
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| Subject: | Battery is not charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
Could someone possibly list the drawing numbers for "the Bob's Rotax
diagrams"?
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery is not charging
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
<trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Bill, Matt, Bob
Thanks for your answers.
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
>
> Do you know if the system ever actually charged the battery - kept the bus
> voltage above 14v? In other words, was the system wired correctly?
Yes. Since 1999
> When you say "measuring the generator output" what do you mean? With the
> engine running?
Yes, at idle but also at around 2500RPM. But yesterday, when we measured
between the 2 yellow wires of the generator not connected to the system, we
got 0 (zero, nada), therefore the down indicated conclusion.
> If you don't have a schematic of the system, draw
> one up - take a notepad, pencil and DMM to the hangar and doodle > it out
> nothing fancy. Compare what's doodled to what's on one of
> the Bob's Rotax diagrams. Even if the system is designed/installed
> okay, the exercise will help you debug the system.
I'll try to do it, because the iniyial builder didn't do it and I have none.
> Does the system have an alternator disconnect relay?
No
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> Get the battery tender. Hook it up for 24 hours or more. Fly the
> airplane while watching voltage and report your findings back
> to us. It would also be helpful to have an alternator loadmeter
> installed so that you can see if the alternator is "working hard"
> or "broke".
I am going to try this one, before dismounting the generator from the
engine.
But from our last measuring, as indicated above, we believe the ROTAX
alternator/generator has really passed away...
That means 480 euros($600) + labour!
Thanks again
Carlos
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: DC to DC converter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
do not archive
These guys are cheap and have exactly what you need--
http://www.astrodyne.com
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"...Beans for supper tonight, six o'clock.
Navy beans cooked in Oklahoma ham...
Got to eat 'em with a spoon, raw onions
and cornbread; nothing else...."
--Will Rogers
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery is not charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> > When you say "measuring the generator output" what do you
mean?
> > With the engine running?
>
> Yes, at idle but also at around 2500RPM. But yesterday, when we
> measured between the 2 yellow wires of the generator not
connected to
> the system, we got 0 (zero, nada), therefore the down indicated
> conclusion.
Carlos,
You do know that the output from the two yellow wires will be AC? A
separate rectifier is used to convert to DC. If measuring AC with
digital multimeter set to DC you'll get 0 (zip,nada).......
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 5
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not designate 85.138.31.28 as permitted sender) receiver=mta7; client_ip=85.138.31.28;
envelope-from=trigo@mail.telepac.pt;
| Subject: | Re: Battery is not charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery is not charging
> Carlos,
>
> You do know that the output from the two yellow wires will be AC?
> A separate rectifier is used to convert to DC. If measuring AC with
> digital multimeter set to DC you'll get 0 (zip,nada).......
>
>
> Jim Baker
Thanks Jim
To be honest, I didn't know, but the electric guy who is helping me does
know that.
Carlos
Message 6
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| Subject: | Battery is not charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:33 AM 9/10/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
>
>Could someone possibly list the drawing numbers for "the Bob's Rotax
>diagrams"?
>
>Thanks!
Figure Z-16 in
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11C.pdf
BTW, if you have no output between the yellow leads from
the alternator windings, there is an open circuit. Can you
SEE the windings? They should be a dark caramel color.
Do any wires wound around the poles of the stator winding
look or smell burned? Your existing stator coil might be
repairable if it's just a broken wire.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery is not charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:01 PM 9/10/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
><trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery is not charging
>
>
> > Carlos,
> >
> > You do know that the output from the two yellow wires will be AC?
> > A separate rectifier is used to convert to DC. If measuring AC with
> > digital multimeter set to DC you'll get 0 (zip,nada).......
> >
> >
> > Jim Baker
>
>Thanks Jim
>
>To be honest, I didn't know, but the electric guy who is helping me does
>know that.
Oh, I mis-read one of the messages. Jim is dead on, you DO need to
know the value of AC voltage coming off the stator winding's yellow
leads. When I misunderstood the voltage to be zero, I was surprised.
This coil assembly is quite robust. Failure to charge is more likely
to be a problem with the rectifier/regulator.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Use a 28vdc alternator in 14vdc system? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
> Date: 2005/09/08 Thu PM 09:56:40 CDT
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Use a 28vdc alternator in 14vdc system?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> How many 14v airplanes does RAC or Cessna make today? Zip..Nada..Zero
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
Do you fly a Cessna or RAC a/c? Why is their opinion better for electrical systems
if it's not better for a/c selection? ;->
Charlie
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: DC to DC converter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Thanks very much Eric, I'll check them out.
Bob McC
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
>
> do not archive
>
> These guys are cheap and have exactly what you need--
>
> http://www.astrodyne.com
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 wiring architecture |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond@mweb.co.za>
I am a non electric guy, starting out from scratch. I was hoping to get
answers and opinions on the following questions.
How are Cessna, Mooney, Pipers ect wired up. Are they dual battery and dual
alternator?
I want to keep my RV10 practical, and careful not to overdo the redundancy
part, keep it simple.
I will in all probability end up with an electric panel, no vacuum. I like
the Grand Rapids system, Chelton is a bit too far away in $$$ terms. I would
probably back up with a Dynon, with an internal Nicad. I will be running
LASAR magneto's. My first thoughts are single Alternator and single battery?
All suggestions and points of view are appreciated.
Dave Emond
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Use a 28vdc alternator in 14vdc |
system?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
system?
At 02:07 PM 9/10/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> >
> > From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
> > Date: 2005/09/08 Thu PM 09:56:40 CDT
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Use a 28vdc alternator in 14vdc system?
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
> >
> > How many 14v airplanes does RAC or Cessna make today? Zip..Nada..Zero
> >
> > Bruce
> > www.glasair.org
>Do you fly a Cessna or RAC a/c? Why is their opinion better for electrical
>systems if it's not better for a/c selection? ;->
Gently Charlie, we know the BePipCesMo guys are hard pressed
just to stay in business under the worst of economic and working
conditions; making detailed evolutionary refinements in on-board systems
is simply impossible. Virtually EVERY decision for making changes
has to be made under the albatross of, "what will it cost us to get
dispensation and blessings from the East?" I'm told the cost
of implementing a change to one sheet of paper describing a part
of our products can cost 5 to 7 $thousands$ by the time everyone
in our business with an interest in that part is properly aware
of the change and the changes are carved into the stone of what
has been euphemistically called "configuration management."
I've had conversations with my contemporaries at RAC about what
goes on in the OBAM aviation community and nearly to a man,
they all look wistful and say, "Gee . . . I wish we could
do that out here." If any of us could make a living in OBAM
aircraft, we'd all be working for somebody else but the BePipCesMo
crowd. Alas, that same over-regulated, exclusively marketed line
of products is still producing a huge cash flow. As long as
that river of cash is sufficient for each of us to get a tiny
hook into it and snag off enough for a living, we'll hang around.
There are still some fun days. Took a Saturday morning today to
put my data acquisition system on a Beechjet and track down
a malfunction in a tail deice system. This problem has plagued
my boss and the airplane's owners for months. They've already
spent a bucket of money on the usual but inadequate isolation
techniques. There are few things that will bring me out to
the airport on Saturday morning (or in an ice storm) and this
was one of them. It was a GREAT day.
In the mean time, let's be mindful of what's gone before us
both for the rich history of experience and as environments
for learning. We are all graduating from "Certified U" and striking
out on our own. Some of us will found new institutions. Some
will be successful, others will not. But our mission here on the
List should not be to judge ACTIONS of either OBAMdom or SPAMdom
but to glean the simple-ideas from both that will provide
foundation for building beyond where we are today in EITHER
venue. The fact that a BE36 currently has a 14 or 28v system is
irrelevant. What is relevant are the tradeoffs for the two
systems in the ways we intend to apply them in an RV or
Glasair and the selection of "tinker-toys" available
to us for implementation of what ever decision is made.
I'd love to take a stripped-out BE-36 and do a clean-slate
systems installation. I'm sure we could take out lots of weight,
add lots of value and maybe even pump some new market life
into that venerable ol' beast . . . but some nicely built
RV will still outrun it. BTW, it would still have a 28v, 100A
and 20A alternators on it. Too much need for electric heat.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | elec smoke smell |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Guy and Jill Foreman" <guyjill01@hotmail.com>
I turned on my split batt/alt switch, and heard a rapid clicking noise,
followed by a elec smoke smell. I turned of the batt switch, and the smell
went away. I decided to replace the batt relay, but never did find out where
the smell was coming from. I know something got hot, but cant find where it
came from. Any suggestions?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 wiring architecture |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
Dave:
You need to sign up to with the rv10-list@matronics.com
E-mail Address(es):
rv10-list@matronics.com
this group will help you with such ?? as these .
Brian Bollaert
rv-10 builder #40200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond@mweb.co.za>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV 10 wiring architecture
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave & Brenda Emond"
<d_emond@mweb.co.za>
>
>
> I am a non electric guy, starting out from scratch. I was hoping to get
> answers and opinions on the following questions.
>
> How are Cessna, Mooney, Pipers ect wired up. Are they dual battery and
dual
> alternator?
>
> I want to keep my RV10 practical, and careful not to overdo the redundancy
> part, keep it simple.
>
> I will in all probability end up with an electric panel, no vacuum. I like
> the Grand Rapids system, Chelton is a bit too far away in $$$ terms. I
would
> probably back up with a Dynon, with an internal Nicad. I will be running
> LASAR magneto's. My first thoughts are single Alternator and single
battery?
>
> All suggestions and points of view are appreciated.
>
> Dave Emond
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: elec smoke smell |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Riley <richard@riley.net>
Others will, I'm sure, have better suggestions. But I'd start off
with have a halon extinguisher handy.
At 05:15 PM 9/10/05, Guy and Jill Foreman wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Guy and Jill Foreman"
><guyjill01@hotmail.com>
>
>I turned on my split batt/alt switch, and heard a rapid clicking noise,
>followed by a elec smoke smell. I turned of the batt switch, and the smell
>went away. I decided to replace the batt relay, but never did find out where
>the smell was coming from. I know something got hot, but cant find where it
>came from. Any suggestions?
>
>
>--
--
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 wiring architecture |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 10 Sep 2005, at 16:01, Dave & Brenda Emond wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave & Brenda Emond"
> <d_emond@mweb.co.za>
>
>
> I am a non electric guy, starting out from scratch. I was hoping to
> get
> answers and opinions on the following questions.
>
> How are Cessna, Mooney, Pipers ect wired up. Are they dual battery
> and dual
> alternator?
>
> I want to keep my RV10 practical, and careful not to overdo the
> redundancy
> part, keep it simple.
>
> I will in all probability end up with an electric panel, no vacuum.
> I like
> the Grand Rapids system, Chelton is a bit too far away in $$$
> terms. I would
> probably back up with a Dynon, with an internal Nicad. I will be
> running
> LASAR magneto's. My first thoughts are single Alternator and single
> battery?
>
> All suggestions and points of view are appreciated.
>
How will you use the aircraft? VFR only? VFR and IFR? Day only?
Day and night?
Given how you will use the aircraft, and the electrically powered
equipment, what are the consequences of a complete electrical
failure? If you will be able to get the aircraft on the ground with
an acceptable workload following a complete electrical failure, then
you don't need to spend extra time/money/weight/maintenance cost on
additional alternators and batteries.
If you plan to do cross country flying, do you want the ability to
get back home following an alternator or battery failure? Or, are
you prepared to replace the alternator or battery while on the road?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
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