---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/24/05: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:49 AM - Abwesenheitsnotiz - Out of Office Notice (Lorenz Malmstrm) 2. 12:53 AM - Re: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? (Steve Hunt) 3. 01:56 AM - Re: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? () 4. 08:06 AM - Wire Size for E-Buss Alt Feed (Tinne maha) 5. 08:08 AM - headset jack problem (Robert Dickson) 6. 09:10 AM - (bob noffs) 7. 09:10 AM - Re: Wire Size for E-Buss Alt Feed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 10:05 AM - kt 78 tray (Bill and Marsha) 9. 11:09 AM - Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll bar (Eric M. Jones) 10. 02:56 PM - Re: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? (how to) () 11. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll bar (Richard E. Tasker) 12. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll (Dave Morris \) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:27 AM PST US From: "Lorenz Malmstrm" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Abwesenheitsnotiz - Out of Office Notice --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lorenz Malmstrm" Ich bin ab dem 10. Oktober 2005 wieder im Bro erreichbar. In dringenden Fllen wenden Sie sich bitte an unser Sekretariat (031 307 50 50). I will be in my office again from October 10, 2005. Please contact our front desk for urgent matters (031 307 50 50). ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:55 AM PST US From: "Steve Hunt" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Hunt" Bob, from the reply received from Vans which I copied you I believe that the red and green tails are connected to field supply and the blue is not used. As shown on Van's drawing OP 10, Rgds Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 03:02 PM 9/23/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" >> >> >>The center terminal is not used (this is the voltage sensing terminal) >>the left terminal (as you look at the back of the alt) Is the ignition >>terminal. Right termainal is the L or lamp terminal commonly used to >>detect if the thing is charging...I vaguely remember that Vans has you >>join these two terminals together (I.e does not use a lamp) >> >>Frank > > Hmmm . . . the folks are telling me that there are red, blue > and green pigtails on the supplied connector. I'd really be > interested in seeing a copy of Van's wiring diagram which > I presume is part of his wire kit and/or supplied with the > alternator. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:54 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: The lamp should be installed as it is a fault light as well as a low volt light. http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/alt_bwoh.pdf The above ref will give you the wiring. Logic of the internal IC voltage regulator uses the difference between the output and remote sense to control and protect. With out the remote sense it will ignore it and use the b-lead/ign voltage with some loss in control and protection. If it was designed with remote sense than use the remote sense. I think some Toyota's run the remote to the battery. G Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> Had two folks call me in the last two days asking about what to do with the three wires that come out of the connector on Van's current 60A alternator offering. Does anyone have that data they can share? Thanks! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:09 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 03:02 PM 9/23/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > >The center terminal is not used (this is the voltage sensing terminal) >the left terminal (as you look at the back of the alt) Is the ignition >terminal. Right termainal is the L or lamp terminal commonly used to >detect if the thing is charging...I vaguely remember that Vans has you >join these two terminals together (I.e does not use a lamp) > >Frank Hmmm . . . the folks are telling me that there are red, blue and green pigtails on the supplied connector. I'd really be interested in seeing a copy of Van's wiring diagram which I presume is part of his wire kit and/or supplied with the alternator. Bob . . . --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:50 AM PST US From: "Tinne maha" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Size for E-Buss Alt Feed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" Hello Bob/List, A load analysis of my E-buss gives a total of 3.0 amps in cruise flight. 17 ft from battery bus to switch as a wire lays (batt in tail.) An AWG 20 wire over that distance gives a drop of 0.52 volts. AWG 18 gives 0.33 volt drop. Figure Z-11 shows an AWG 16 wire (which I presume to be for a battery in the front & shorter wire length) which gives a 0.2 volt drop. In sizing other wires I've chosen those which give a drop of ~0.5 volts or less. (Hence, I'm inclined to use the AWG 20 or 18) However, the only time this particular wire will be in use is when the system has dropped from ~14 Volts to ~12 Volts. I also realize, when in use, this will be the one wire holding my entire electrical system together when I need it most. Is this a reason to choose a bigger wire? How should I go about sizing it? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks, Grant ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:35 AM PST US From: Robert Dickson Subject: AeroElectric-List: headset jack problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Dickson I'm having a problem with the headset jacks in my RV-6A. The jacks are connected to a Garmin 340 audio panel. This situation I have now is this: when I play music (ipod) through the 340 it sounds great, in stereo, from both sets of jacks, but when I speak into the mic I only get right channel sound from the pilot jacks. I get perfect sound from both channels when using the passenger jacks. I have performed these tests with the jacks out of the panel to make sure there isn't a grounding problem. I have made sure that everything is exactly the same with both sets of jacks. I replaced the mono headset jacks with stereo jacks on both sides. I have also checked continuity on all the wiring of both sets of jacks. I have done this according to the headset/mic wiring instructions that came with my stack and Garmin's pin diagram. I repeated this check several times to make sure everything was right. The stereo/mono switch on the headset (lightspeed) has no effect. I have tried another headset and get the same result. I have adjusted the squelch carefully to make sure that's not an issue. It's almost as if the pilot squelch itself is the problem since the music input comes through perfectly. Can anyone suggest the next step in diagnosing this problem? I feel like it's just another case of my doing something stupid but I'm at a loss at this point to know what that might be. If I had access to another 340 audio panel I'd try that but I don't have that option. thanks, Robert Dickson ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:42 AM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" hi all, my elec. turn coor. has a port with 3 female pins. the attachment that was supplied that you attach the wires to is as long as my house[ well, almost]. the turn coor. id too deep for my panel with this attachment. is there something out there that is a right angle or is there another means to attach the wires? i have an inch from the forward edge of the ort to my fuel tank. thanks in advance, bob noffs ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Size for E-Buss Alt Feed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:56 AM 9/24/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" > >Hello Bob/List, > >A load analysis of my E-buss gives a total of 3.0 amps in cruise flight. 17 >ft from battery bus to switch as a wire lays (batt in tail.) An AWG 20 wire >over that distance gives a drop of 0.52 volts. AWG 18 gives 0.33 volt drop. > Figure Z-11 shows an AWG 16 wire (which I presume to be for a battery in >the front & shorter wire length) which gives a 0.2 volt drop. > >In sizing other wires I've chosen those which give a drop of ~0.5 volts or >less. (Hence, I'm inclined to use the AWG 20 or 18) However, the only time >this particular wire will be in use is when the system has dropped from ~14 >Volts to ~12 Volts. I also realize, when in use, this will be the one wire >holding my entire electrical system together when I need it most. Is this a >reason to choose a bigger wire? How should I go about sizing it? When the alternator is running, the bus rides at 13.8 to 14.6 volts, the alternator is capable of unlimited supply of energy and you have some "power to burn". When you're operating battery only, the range of voltage drops to 12.5 down to 11.O volts. Further, the energy stored is finite and limited. A design goal for lower voltage drop in the endurance mode seems prudent. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:38 AM PST US From: "Bill and Marsha" Subject: AeroElectric-List: kt 78 tray --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha" Can anyone tell me if a kt 78 xpdr will fit in a kt 76a tray (not including the elect connector) which I know is different. Bill S. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:34 AM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll bar --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker >This is probably not permanent magnetism of the rollbar but just the >fact that a potentially magnetic material (steel in this case) distorts >the earth's magnetic field in the vicinity of the rollbar and thereby >causes the compass needle to point in a direction not entirely aligned >with the earth's normal magnetic field alignment. This is why any piece >of avionics that uses a magnetometer (electronic compass) cautions you >to place it far away from any steel. Richard proposes an interesting problem. Let's see if I can confuse the issue (or not). >Lines of magnetic of force tend to (will) take the easiest path to >connect from the north pole to the south pole. Any potentially magnetic >material (whether it is magnetized or not) will provide a much easier >path than air. When this happens, the compass still aligns with the >resultant lines of force - but the lines of force no longer align with >what is expected...>>snipped First of all--THERE ARE NO MAGNETIC LINES OF FORCE (Please forgive the capitalization but this is an important point). This classroom-demonstration illusion is caused by each iron filing becoming temporarily magnetized. This is an "emergent property" like an ant colony or a card game. Physicists draw field gradients which are orthogonal to "lines of force", and they make more sense. And yes, the presence of iron distorts the field gradient. Soft iron has "loose" domains (kind of like a herd of cows in a pasture), that can be influenced into alignment easily, but don't stay there when another influence comes along. Alloying the iron is like putting up fences and barriers that tend to keep the cows aligned. >None of this is particularly pertinent except one should understand >that, just because a compass needle moves in the vicinity of a piece of >steel, the steel is not necessarily magnetized - so demagnetizing it in >that case would have no effect. My $0.02...Dick Tasker Dick is right, ferromagnetic materials and magnetized materials can be confused. But determining if the roll bar is magnetized is not so hard. Experiment on the cans of food in your larder. Note that a ferromagnetic-material can, can attract either end of the compass needle equally, but is biased if the can is magnetized. The hard part is finding something that is NOT already magnetized--since just sitting around in the Earth's magnetic field magnetizes ferromagnetic materials. The roll bar is 100% certain to be somewhat magnetized. Whether or not this is a problem depends on your philosophical biases. And don't forget you have compensating magnets inside the compass. The compensators are reversed in compasses used in the southern hemisphere. That's why compass binnacles allow holders to be rotated 180 degrees when you pass over the equator. Like all things, there is much more to say about magnetism, but it may interest some readers that submarines in WWII were demagnetized to avoid magnetic mines (which responded to magnetized hulls, not ferromagnetic materials). The subs were wrapped with cables approximately six feet apart that were pulsed with DC currents of 3000 amps, then polarity reversed and pulsed with a smaller current until the last current pulse was only 5 amps. Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 (508) 764-2072 Here is Eric's Easy Science Lesson for the Day. 1) There are no electrons, at least in any real sense that you can observe or demonstrate. Nobody has ever seen an electron. 2) There are no magnetic lines of force. 3) There is no inertia. (I have unsuccessfully argued this with physics book writer Paul Hewitt). There is only mass and momentum and energy--sort of--but it's not so simple as one thinks. 4) There are no solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) 5) There are no absolute continuums. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) 6) There are no surfaces. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) 7) There are no straight lines. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) 8) Concepts of time and space are doomed (okay, this is a little complicated but Einstein and Witten both agree on this). 9) And what the heck--Everything you know is wrong, too! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:18 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring details for Van's IR Alternator? (how to) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: I know Van's does not show connecting the alternator's (L) light up and connecting the sense wire to the IGN wire. Here are some reasons you may want to connect all three wires up as planned. There are one wire alternators but they have some draw backs. By wiring Van's 60 amp as some suggest or discribed, essentially makes it an one wire alternator. http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:44 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll bar --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" Eric M. Jones wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker > > >First of all--THERE ARE NO MAGNETIC LINES OF FORCE (Please forgive the >capitalization but this is an important point). > Yea, I know this, but not everyone on this list has an engineering or physics degree so I used the commonly accepted method of explaining this. >Here is Eric's Easy Science Lesson for the Day. > >1) There are no electrons, at least in any real sense that you can observe >or demonstrate. Nobody has ever seen an electron. >2) There are no magnetic lines of force. >3) There is no inertia. (I have unsuccessfully argued this with physics book >writer Paul Hewitt). There is only mass and momentum and energy--sort >of--but it's not so simple as one thinks. >4) There are no solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a >solid. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) >5) There are no absolute continuums. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) >6) There are no surfaces. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) >7) There are no straight lines. ( R. Buckminster Fuller) >8) Concepts of time and space are doomed (okay, this is a little complicated >but Einstein and Witten both agree on this). > All good points, but if we are going to go this far, try: What is mass and why do material objects (as immaterial as they are in reality) have it? >9) And what the heck--Everything you know is wrong, too! > But what if I know that everything I know is wrong? Is that wrong too? Do not archive ---- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. ---- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:08 PM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll bar --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" At 05:04 PM 9/24/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" > > > >Here is Eric's Easy Science Lesson for the Day. > > snip > >9) And what the heck--Everything you know is wrong, too! > > >But what if I know that everything I know is wrong? Is that wrong too? >Do not archive Then wrap yourself with large cables and pulse yourself with 3000 amps of current until you start attracting chicks. Dave Morris Do archive