Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:45 AM - Re: (Ken)
2. 06:38 AM - Re: Alternator Speed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:47 AM - Re: Alternator Speed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Magnetism (Eric M. Jones)
5. 12:03 PM - Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
6. 12:07 PM - Beechcraft Ground Power ()
7. 01:13 PM - Solid State Gyros (Fox5flyer)
8. 02:12 PM - Re: Solid State Gyros (Jeff)
9. 02:39 PM - Re: Solid State Gyros (Dave Morris \)
10. 03:07 PM - Solid state..... (Jim Baker)
11. 03:27 PM - Re: Solid State Gyros (Phil Birkelbach)
12. 03:35 PM - Re: Solid State Gyros (Kingsley Hurst)
13. 05:23 PM - Re: Solid State Gyros (Larry McFarland)
14. 06:38 PM - Re: Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 06:40 PM - Re: Beechcraft Ground Power (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:25 PM - Hobbs meter wiring (Rodney Dunham)
17. 08:17 PM - Re: FW: Wiring details for Vans 60A (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 08:17 PM - Re: Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) (Ed Anderson)
19. 08:27 PM - (bob noffs)
20. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 09:15 PM - Re: Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) (Terry Watson)
22. 10:11 PM - Re: Solid State Gyros (Werner Schneider)
23. 11:23 PM - Re: Hobbs meter wiring (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
I picked up a used metal 90 degree connector from Wentworth but I'm
pretty sure it still stuck out at least an inch. It required joining the
wires as I didn't have spare pins that fit.
Ken
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 11:00 AM 9/24/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net>
>>
>>hi all,
>> my elec. turn coor. has a port with 3 female pins. the attachment that
>>was supplied that you attach the wires to is as long as my house[ well,
>>almost]. the turn coor. id too deep for my panel with this attachment. is
>>there something out there that is a right angle or is there another means
>>to attach the wires? i have an inch from the forward edge of the ort to
>>my fuel tank.
>> thanks in advance, bob noffs
>>
>>
>
> It depends on what YOU are satisfied with. You can craft some very
> short mating pins and solder wires to them that depart the joint
> at right angles to the pin. Cover with heatshrink and retain with
> some form of easily removed material . . . like hot glue.
>
> I think this would stay in place nicely and accomplish what
> you want. You'll want to avoid showing this to anyone else
> on your field lest the have considerable fun at your
> expense over the beer and pretzels.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Speed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:41 AM 9/26/2005 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>
> > Here's a typical output current curve for an
> > automotive alternator. The population of
> > mfgrs and part numbers will "wiggle" a bit
> > from this curve but it's probably plus or minus
> > 10 percent for the whole lot.
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/80A_OutCurve.gif
> >
>
>Just a quick question - was this alternator putting out
>14.something volts the whole time, or does the voltage
>change with the alternator speed?
This is an output curve for current with a regulator
connected. Therefore, the voltage is constant at whatever
the regulator is set for. This shows that the minimum
speed for regulation is about 1000 rpm . . . 14v but
no current.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Speed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:41 PM 9/25/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
>Hi William,
>
>I do not remember any comments or questions on the list about the
>relationship between alternator pulley diameter and belt service life.
>During the racing days of a past life we commonly ran engines well into the
>7000 RPM range.
That's another trade-off. Suppose the smallest pulley on the
alternator produces some signs of wear on the belt at say,
250 hours . . . this is about 5 years in average life of
a light airplane. By this time, you've spent a lot of $ on plugs,
oil changes, probably a battery or two, maybe some tires. Yup,
EVERYTHING has a service life that may be extended and/or
reduced depending on the performance one expects.
Would you trade off better alternator performance at low engine
speeds for longer service life on a belt? It's certainly a
design goal to be considered.
>My guess is that the alternator likely exceeded twice that. Alternators
>where standing up to that kind of use without much complaint.
How many service hours per year would one expect from an
alternator in this application? Would it even be as many hours
as the average airplane (50 or so).
>Looking back now I wonder if we might have redirected at least some
>percentage of horse power by using a larger pulley. Turning the alternator
>above 12000 RPM most likely wastes energy as they don't seem to produce
>usable added output approaching and or beyond that.
>Bending the belt around a small pulley above 10,000 RPM most likely would
>create heat that must reduce belt life.
>Fan belts can take a lot of abuse. I just remembered a modified Corvair that
>ate the occasional belt during hard runs. Corvairs had the worst fan belt
>layout that I ever saw.
The differences in overall system losses between optimal belt
ratios for full alternator output at cruise and belt ratios
for not exceeding alternator max rpm in trade for better
taxi speed performances is calculable but difficult to actually
measure. A pilot would not perceived the difference in terms of
flight system performance.
>Turning the alternator at 7000 RPM while set up in cruse should not have
>serious negative effects on the belt or the alternator with small pulley and
>the low speed (idle) performance would be of benefit.
>
>The large pulley might interfere with the cowling if you are an RV type.
All these factors should be considered when crafting one's personal
list of design goals. Thanks for bringing them up!
Bob . . .
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
It should be said that residual magnetism is much less of a problem if the pilot
does not depend on the compass as the primary navigation instrument. In fact,
the compass is usually just used as a steering bearing. Since the upper winds
are usually just estimates, and nobody I know navigates with an E6B like they
teach in ground school--compasses are much less important nowadays.
For those who want to know more--the definitive available (and readable) work on
the subject is:
http://pollux.nss.nima.mil/NAV_PUBS/APN/Chapt-06.pdf
This addresses the needs of ships at sea, but it's all the same stuff.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"Beaten paths are for beaten men."
-E. A. Johnston
Message 5
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| Subject: | Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Would you trade off better alternator performance at low engine
speeds for longer service life on a belt?
>>>>
Which brings up something I don't recall seeing discussed here or on RV-list:
What is typical failure mode for belt and what is potential for/scope of
"collateral damage" in event of failure? How is belt condition best determined
and what is best practice for determining replacement interval?
Thanks- Mark Phillips
Message 6
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| Subject: | Beechcraft Ground Power |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
9/26/2005
Hello Old Bob and Other Beechcraft Experts, I fly in a 1988 Beechcraft
Sierra from time to time as an instructor and safety pilot.
This aircraft has a 24 volt electrical system with an external ground power
receptacle on the middle left side of the fuselage. This receptacle is round
with a post in the middle.
Recently when the owner sought to have external power applied by a local FBO
that services a wide variety of transient aircraft (including Pipers) the
FBO told the owner that they had no plug on their ground power cart that was
compatible with the Sierra's ground power receptacle.
We found that hard to believe and went searching for a compatible plug, or
an adapter that would allow a commonly available plug to be used in the
Sierra's receptacle. We initially assumed that the receptacle must be a
Piper type (round with a post in the middle), but after examining some Piper
type plugs on local ground power carts it appears that the Piper plug will
not fit that receptacle.
Further research has left us empty handed. A phone call to a Beechcraft
parts source said that that receptacle "was no longer supported".
So the questions are:
1) What is the story on the ground power receptacle on the Sierra? Is it a
maverick that Beechcraft came up with that is no longer supported by them or
compatible with commonly found FBO ground power cart plugs?
2) What is the best way to come up with a device that will allow use of the
commonly found plugs on FBO ground power carts?
Many thanks.
OC
Message 7
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| Subject: | Solid State Gyros |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I'm in the market for an electric Artificial Horizon gyro. I'm not planning on
any hard IMC. I just want something to help with pitch and roll when I get into
a short term situation, like haze over the water.
The options I've found are the RC Allen (very expensive) and Falcon (about half).
Both are mechanical and provide no other information.
The other option is to go solid state with lots of information. There are the
Trutrack and Dynon units to name a couple. I don't have any experience with the
new solid state units at all. I'd like to keep my expenses under or around
$2500. Here are my questions.
1. Does anybody have any experience with the Falcon electric AH? Reliability?
2. Does anybody have any experience with any of the solid state units? Positive
or negative.
3. Do the solid state units provide the same accuracy as the mechanical units?
4. Are the solid state units reliable?
5. How do the solid state units work, pitch-roll-heading?
6. Other than those that I mentioned above, are there any others out there that
are worth persuing.
Thanks for any info offered.
Deke
Mikado MI
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyros |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
Sporty's has a new OEM'd unit that looks good and isn't too expensive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solid State Gyros
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> I'm in the market for an electric Artificial Horizon gyro. I'm not
> planning on any hard IMC. I just want something to help with pitch and
> roll when I get into a short term situation, like haze over the water.
> The options I've found are the RC Allen (very expensive) and Falcon (about
> half). Both are mechanical and provide no other information.
> The other option is to go solid state with lots of information. There are
> the Trutrack and Dynon units to name a couple. I don't have any
> experience with the new solid state units at all. I'd like to keep my
> expenses under or around $2500. Here are my questions.
>
> 1. Does anybody have any experience with the Falcon electric AH?
> Reliability?
>
> 2. Does anybody have any experience with any of the solid state units?
> Positive or negative.
>
> 3. Do the solid state units provide the same accuracy as the mechanical
> units?
>
> 4. Are the solid state units reliable?
>
> 5. How do the solid state units work, pitch-roll-heading?
>
> 6. Other than those that I mentioned above, are there any others out
> there that are worth persuing.
>
> Thanks for any info offered.
>
> Deke
> Mikado MI
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyros |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
The TruTrak impressed the heck out of me at Sun-N-Fun. One of their AH
units was sitting on the table with a single power cord running to it. I
picked it up and flipped it around and the horizon stayed stable no matter
how I tortured it. Very impressive, tiny little unit. No idea if it's
reliable or breaks or whatever. I predict that this stuff is going to keep
coming down in cost as the solid state sensors begin to invade GA cockpits.
Dave Morris
At 03:09 PM 9/26/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
><morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>I'm in the market for an electric Artificial Horizon gyro. I'm not
>planning on any hard IMC. I just want something to help with pitch and
>roll when I get into a short term situation, like haze over the water.
>The options I've found are the RC Allen (very expensive) and Falcon (about
>half). Both are mechanical and provide no other information.
>The other option is to go solid state with lots of information. There are
>the Trutrack and Dynon units to name a couple. I don't have any
>experience with the new solid state units at all. I'd like to keep my
>expenses under or around $2500. Here are my questions.
>
>1. Does anybody have any experience with the Falcon electric
>AH? Reliability?
>
>2. Does anybody have any experience with any of the solid state
>units? Positive or negative.
>
>3. Do the solid state units provide the same accuracy as the mechanical
>units?
>
>4. Are the solid state units reliable?
>
>5. How do the solid state units work, pitch-roll-heading?
>
>6. Other than those that I mentioned above, are there any others out
>there that are worth persuing.
>
>Thanks for any info offered.
>
>Deke
>Mikado MI
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Solid state..... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/icarusefis.php
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyros |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
Fox5flyer wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>I'm in the market for an electric Artificial Horizon gyro. I'm not planning on
any hard IMC. I just want something to help with pitch and roll when I get
into a short term situation, like haze over the water.
>The options I've found are the RC Allen (very expensive) and Falcon (about half).
Both are mechanical and provide no other information.
>The other option is to go solid state with lots of information. There are the
Trutrack and Dynon units to name a couple. I don't have any experience with
the new solid state units at all. I'd like to keep my expenses under or around
$2500. Here are my questions.
>
>1. Does anybody have any experience with the Falcon electric AH? Reliability?
>
>2. Does anybody have any experience with any of the solid state units? Positive
or negative.
>
>
>
I love my Dynon. So far only 1.5 hours on it but others have had good luck.
>3. Do the solid state units provide the same accuracy as the mechanical units?
>
>
I would guess them to be better than the mechanicals. No precession to
worry about and frankly, they aren't mechanical. I have met very few
mechanical instruments that offered the same accuracy as their digital
counterparts although this comparison may be flawed.
>4. Are the solid state units reliable?
>
>
Ask me in a couple thousand hours. It's hard to argue with "no moving
parts" however. Dan C. has several hundred hours on his Dynon and I
think he still likes it.
>5. How do the solid state units work, pitch-roll-heading?
>
>
>
Don't understand the question. It works with accelerometers and rate
gyros. The Dynon displays pitch and roll on a digitally rendered horizon
and heading on a tape that scrolls across the top of the screen.
>6. Other than those that I mentioned above, are there any others out there that
are worth persuing.
>
>
Grand Rapids has a nice little unit. www.grtavioncs.com IIRC Also
check out Blue Mountain's offerings. There are also some PDA based
options but I can't remember the names of any of those.
>Thanks for any info offered.
>
>Deke
>Mikado MI
>
>
>
>
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB - Phase I
http://www.myrv7.com
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Solid State Gyros |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
> 6. Other than those that I mentioned above, are there any others out
there that are worth pursuing.
Deke
Another alternative is at
www.stratomaster@lightflying.com.au
I have no experience with them myself but will be looking hard at them
later on.
They are manufactured in South Africa.
The above link is to the Australian agent but I'm sure you have agents
in the US too.
Regs
Kingsley Hurst in Oz
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyros |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Deke,
Take a serious look at their Model 4000 pictured on the link below, for
the new Horizon EFIS.
http://hometown.aol.com/enginfosys/
Seriously good people to deal with. I have their 2004 Engine
Information System and found it and the company
very worth while product.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Fox5flyer wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>I'm in the market for an electric Artificial Horizon gyro. I'm not planning on
any hard IMC. I just want something to help with pitch and roll when I get
into a short term situation, like haze over the water.
>The options I've found are the RC Allen (very expensive) and Falcon (about half).
Both are mechanical and provide no other information.
>The other option is to go solid state with lots of information. There are the
Trutrack and Dynon units to name a couple. I don't have any experience with
the new solid state units at all. I'd like to keep my expenses under or around
$2500. Here are my questions.
>
>1. Does anybody have any experience with the Falcon electric AH? Reliability?
>
>2. Does anybody have any experience with any of the solid state units? Positive
or negative.
>
>3. Do the solid state units provide the same accuracy as the mechanical units?
>
>4. Are the solid state units reliable?
>
>5. How do the solid state units work, pitch-roll-heading?
>
>6. Other than those that I mentioned above, are there any others out there that
are worth persuing.
>
>Thanks for any info offered.
>
>Deke
>Mikado MI
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:56 PM 9/26/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>
> Would you trade off better alternator performance at low engine
> speeds for longer service life on a belt?
>
> >>>>
>
>Which brings up something I don't recall seeing discussed here or on RV-list:
> What is typical failure mode for belt and what is potential for/scope of
>"collateral damage" in event of failure? How is belt condition best
>determined
>and what is best practice for determining replacement interval?
>
>Thanks- Mark Phillips
Belts will show distinct signs of distress long before catastrophic
failure. Cracks, polished sides of the "V", and cords exposed
or hanging out are all reasons to consider replacement. Of course,
you have to pull the prop to replace a belt. I've seen airplanes
at airshows where a "spare" belt was installed over the prop
shaft and secured behind the ring gear pulley. The idea was
that a broken belt could be replaced by simply loosening the
alternator belt tightening brackets and slipping the new one
into place without removing the prop. I asked a few owners
of such aircraft if they'd ever taken advantage of this feature
or knew anyone else who had . . . none answered in the affirmative.
V-belts on aircraft are generally very lightly loaded. Alternators
draw less than 1 h.p. in cruise. Exposure to the elements while
parked probably represents a bulk of the stresses on a belt that
would reduce time in service. Poor tensioning practice can also
reduce life . . .
If a looksee and feel before flight passes muster on a quality
belt, it's going to still be there doing its job when you land.
Bob . . .
Buy good quality belts (Gates) and replace at first signs of
distress (which will be years of time and hundreds of hours
of flight) or at any time you happen to pull the prop, put a new
belt on. Like batteries, well monitored and maintained belts
are VERY low on your list of concerns for finding yourself
"up there" and wishing you were "down here".
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Beechcraft Ground Power |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 03:03 PM 9/26/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
>
>9/26/2005
>
>Hello Old Bob and Other Beechcraft Experts, I fly in a 1988 Beechcraft
>Sierra from time to time as an instructor and safety pilot.
>
>This aircraft has a 24 volt electrical system with an external ground power
>receptacle on the middle left side of the fuselage. This receptacle is round
>with a post in the middle.
>
>Recently when the owner sought to have external power applied by a local FBO
>that services a wide variety of transient aircraft (including Pipers) the
>FBO told the owner that they had no plug on their ground power cart that was
>compatible with the Sierra's ground power receptacle.
>
>We found that hard to believe and went searching for a compatible plug, or
>an adapter that would allow a commonly available plug to be used in the
>Sierra's receptacle. We initially assumed that the receptacle must be a
>Piper type (round with a post in the middle), but after examining some Piper
>type plugs on local ground power carts it appears that the Piper plug will
>not fit that receptacle.
>
>Further research has left us empty handed. A phone call to a Beechcraft
>parts source said that that receptacle "was no longer supported".
>
>So the questions are:
>
>1) What is the story on the ground power receptacle on the Sierra? Is it a
>maverick that Beechcraft came up with that is no longer supported by them or
>compatible with commonly found FBO ground power cart plugs?
>
>2) What is the best way to come up with a device that will allow use of the
>commonly found plugs on FBO ground power carts?
Hmmmm . . . I used to fly a Sierra but never had occasion to use
or even look at the ground power receptacle. The Beech flying
club has some Sundowners which are almost certain to have the
same receptacle. I'll see what they've got and then bug my friends
over in customer support about details.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Hobbs meter wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
I've noticed on the Rotax 912UL wiring diagrams that the "L" pin on the VR
is for a lamp which indicates charge and is usually only "on" at run-up
speed or greater.
Has anyone tried using this as a DCV source for the Hobbs meter? Seems it
would give good "flying time" readings and, or course, no falsely high "I
left the master switch on overnight" readings! Only engine on and RPM's
above warm-up times.
I was thinking run a wire to the meter with an in-line fuse, say 3 amps,
would do the trick.
Any thoughts?
Rodney in Tennessee
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Wiring details for Vans 60A |
alternator
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>Hi Bob et al-
>
>I've been off the list for a while and missed your original request for
>alternator info. As it happens, I've been doing some research into this
>very topic of late, and have made some interesting discoveries. First,
>Van's input was that the exact color of the wires in the 3 wire plug
>changes now and then, and shouldn't be used as a basis for wiring the
>alternator up. They did say that the 3 spade connectors in the plug
>assembly are in a 'pi' configuration, 2 blades being parallel and one at
>right angles. The odd blade is not used, and the 2 parallel ones are tied
>together and run to the ALT switch.
>
>Second, I found a high volume overhauler who seemed very knowledgeable
>and willing to share his expertise. According to him, that top spade in
>the pi, the one at right angles, in the case of vans specific unit (Vans
>#14684, ND unit # 14824) is the 'D' terminal, 'D' as in 'dummy'. It's not
>connected to anything. The left leg of the pi is the 'I' terminal. 'I'
>stands for 'Ignition', which is what that terminal connects to. The right
>leg of the pi is 'L' for 'Light', and connects to the ALT idiot light.
>
>The most interesting thing is that the labelling of the terminals has only
>to do with the wire routing, and not much to do with their function. The
>'I' terminal is actually the voltage sense input, and in a car would be
>fed anytime the ignition was on. The 'L' terminal is the 'ON' signal
>input. It would be connected to the 'run' position of the ignition switch
>via the idiot light lamp. With the ignition switch in 'run', a +V signal
>with little or no current turns the ALT on, but won't light the
>lamp. With the ALT inop for any reason, the 'L' terminal goes to ground
>and the lamp illuminates. Curiously, this implies that a failure of the
>ALT lamp will cause the alternator to shut down, and without the idiot
>light coming on. Last, removing the +V from the 'L' terminal does shut
>the alternator down per it's spec.
>
>Hope this info is useful-
>
>
>Glen Matejcek
Yessir. Thanks!
I've located numerous references where the physical
pinouts for the ND products is shown. I've not seen
any of Van's documents yet but it occurs to me that
he is not building his connector-pigtail assemblies
from scratch but buying them. The alternator test
industry seems to have a convention for assigning
colors that is consistent with all the test adapters
I've seen advertised.
I've seen on the net where if you position a view
of the connector such that you're looking at two
vertical tabs above a horizontal tab, the tab on the
upper right will have a green wire on it and this
will be the IG or alternator control lead. The upper
left will have a red wire on it and will be the connection
for the alternator's built in fault light. The lower,
horizontal tab will be the bus sense lead and is
connected with a blue wire. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Alternator_Data/ND_3-wire.jpg
My sketch is upside down from the description Glen
gave us above . . . so the l-r labels are reversed.
Glen's post further suggests that Van may not get his
pigtailed connectors from a consistent source and, of
course, no source is obligated to adopt the alternator
testing community's conventions for color code.
Since the lamp drive inside the alternator pulls toward
ground on free end of a lamp tied to the bus, I was
concerned about tying the lamp (right-hand/red) terminal to
to the IG (left-hand/green) terminal. This might cause
the IC to pull down hard on a short circuit to bus
and destroy that portion of the chip that drives a
warning light unless protective measures are included
on voltage regulator chip. Turns out that the required
measures do exist and while it would be BETTER to put
a lamp (or 100 ohm resistor) in series with the
lamp terminal, it's not unduly hard on the chip to
make a hard connection.
The warning light is redundant to active notification
of low voltage generally recommended for all aircraft
power systems so the lamp wire from the alternator can
be tied to the IGN lead with or without the series
resistor.
If ALL ND alternators have a bus sense lead (and
from what I've been able to deduce so far, they
do) this opens some VERY interesting opportunities for
crafting a positive ON/OFF control scheme that meets
the design goals I've suggested for integration of
the internally regulated alternator into aircraft.
I'll continue to pursue this line of thinking and
share my findings and deductions with the group at
some time in the not too distant future.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Strongly support Bob's suggestion of using Gates Belts for alternator.
Prevention is always better than the cure..
I used a less expensive brand of belt once and after only 20 hours, a keen
eyed Nephew fortunately notice that "cogs" were missing from the belt.
Replaced the belts immediately with Gates and after 160 hours they still
appear brand new.
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed)
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 02:56 PM 9/26/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>>
>>
>> Would you trade off better alternator performance at low engine
>> speeds for longer service life on a belt?
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>>Which brings up something I don't recall seeing discussed here or on
>>RV-list:
>> What is typical failure mode for belt and what is potential for/scope of
>>"collateral damage" in event of failure? How is belt condition best
>>determined
>>and what is best practice for determining replacement interval?
>>
>>Thanks- Mark Phillips
>
> Belts will show distinct signs of distress long before catastrophic
> failure. Cracks, polished sides of the "V", and cords exposed
> or hanging out are all reasons to consider replacement. Of course,
> you have to pull the prop to replace a belt. I've seen airplanes
> at airshows where a "spare" belt was installed over the prop
> shaft and secured behind the ring gear pulley. The idea was
> that a broken belt could be replaced by simply loosening the
> alternator belt tightening brackets and slipping the new one
> into place without removing the prop. I asked a few owners
> of such aircraft if they'd ever taken advantage of this feature
> or knew anyone else who had . . . none answered in the affirmative.
>
> V-belts on aircraft are generally very lightly loaded. Alternators
> draw less than 1 h.p. in cruise. Exposure to the elements while
> parked probably represents a bulk of the stresses on a belt that
> would reduce time in service. Poor tensioning practice can also
> reduce life . . .
>
> If a looksee and feel before flight passes muster on a quality
> belt, it's going to still be there doing its job when you land.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Buy good quality belts (Gates) and replace at first signs of
> distress (which will be years of time and hundreds of hours
> of flight) or at any time you happen to pull the prop, put a new
> belt on. Like batteries, well monitored and maintained belts
> are VERY low on your list of concerns for finding yourself
> "up there" and wishing you were "down here".
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net>
hi bob,
thanks for the advice on wiring my turn coor. now that i know i can do it with
enough clearance forward of my panel i can move on to solve other mysteries.
bob noffs
dakota hawk builder
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: degaussing (demagnetizing) my roll |
bar
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:36 PM 9/23/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>This is probably not permanent magnetism of the rollbar but just the
>fact that a potentially magnetic material (steel in this case) distorts
>the earth's magnetic field in the vicinity of the rollbar and thereby
>causes the compass needle to point in a direction not entirely aligned
>with the earth's normal magnetic field alignment. This is why any piece
>of avionics that uses a magnetometer (electronic compass) cautions you
>to place it far away from any steel.
>
>Lines of magnetic of force tend to (will) take the easiest path to
>connect from the north pole to the south pole. Any potentially magnetic
>material (whether it is magnetized or not) will provide a much easier
>path than air. When this happens, the compass still aligns with the
>resultant lines of force - but the lines of force no longer align with
>what is expected.
>
>If the roll bar is actually magnetized then the effect is typically much
>more pronounced. A magnetized rollbar likely has a much greater
>magnetic field than the earth.
>
>The only way I know of to determine which of the two above cases is
>causing the compass to move, aside from using gigantic Helmholtz coils,
>is to rotate the rollbar (or entire plane) around the compass rose,
>while holding the compass in the same position relative to the rollbar
>and observe the compass needle. If the rollbar is magnetized the needle
>will likely continue to point to roughly the same direction relative to
>the rollbar. If it is just the distortion of the earth's magnetic
>field, then the compass will rotate as the rollbar is rotated.
>
>None of this is particularly pertinent except one should understand
>that, just because a compass needle moves in the vicinity of a piece of
>steel, the steel is not necessarily magnetized - so demagnetizing it in
>that case would have no effect.
>
>My $0.02...
>
>Dick Tasker
Well stated sir. Thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
I recall seeing v-belts that were made up of removable links. The advantage
was claimed to be that you could adjust the length to fit. It would seem to
be an excellent spare that you could install to get home without pulling the
prop, IF they work. Does anyone have any experience of knowledge of them?
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed
Anderson
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Belt replacement (was Alternator Speed)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Strongly support Bob's suggestion of using Gates Belts for alternator.
Prevention is always better than the cure..
I used a less expensive brand of belt once and after only 20 hours, a keen
eyed Nephew fortunately notice that "cogs" were missing from the belt.
Replaced the belts immediately with Gates and after 160 hours they still
appear brand new.
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyros |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Deke,
I had an RC-Allen Gyro in my Glastar until the Tacho showed around 45
hrs, I have now a Dynon D-10A with external magnetic pickup (the Glastar
has a steel cage).
The RC-Allen was slower and heavier, I have now over 100 hrs on my
Dynon, love the way it handles and display as well as having the
checklists always ready the horizon shows very accurate (even in mild
acro) and appart from some overheating at the begining (directly under
the glare shield) which it did prompt immediately I had so far no problems.
Werner
BTW just sold the RC-Allen which paid nearly for the Dynon, I would not
like to go back.
Fox5flyer wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>I'm in the market for an electric Artificial Horizon gyro. I'm not planning on
any hard IMC. I just want something to help with pitch and roll when I get
into a short term situation, like haze over the water.
>The options I've found are the RC Allen (very expensive) and Falcon (about half).
Both are mechanical and provide no other information.
>The other option is to go solid state with lots of information. There are the
Trutrack and Dynon units to name a couple. I don't have any experience with
the new solid state units at all. I'd like to keep my expenses under or around
$2500. Here are my questions.
>
>1. Does anybody have any experience with the Falcon electric AH? Reliability?
>
>2. Does anybody have any experience with any of the solid state units? Positive
or negative.
>
>3. Do the solid state units provide the same accuracy as the mechanical units?
>
>4. Are the solid state units reliable?
>
>5. How do the solid state units work, pitch-roll-heading?
>
>6. Other than those that I mentioned above, are there any others out there that
are worth persuing.
>
>Thanks for any info offered.
>
>Deke
>Mikado MI
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Hobbs meter wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
I'm using a pressure switch adjusted a tad over the Vs0 hooked into the
pitot line to get flying time.
br
Werner
Rodney Dunham wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
>
>I've noticed on the Rotax 912UL wiring diagrams that the "L" pin on the VR
>is for a lamp which indicates charge and is usually only "on" at run-up
>speed or greater.
>
>Has anyone tried using this as a DCV source for the Hobbs meter? Seems it
>would give good "flying time" readings and, or course, no falsely high "I
>left the master switch on overnight" readings! Only engine on and RPM's
>above warm-up times.
>
>I was thinking run a wire to the meter with an in-line fuse, say 3 amps,
>would do the trick.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Rodney in Tennessee
>
>
>
>
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