Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: Was antennas Now Fuse Block Location (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
2. 07:13 AM - Re: Internal OVP (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: CK breaker life..... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:28 AM - Re: CK breaker life..... (Bruce Gray)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: Cage horizon when powering up ? (Gilles Thesee)
6. 07:47 AM - Why are wire strands tinned ? (Gilles Thesee)
7. 08:54 AM - Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? (Ed Anderson)
8. 09:43 AM - Re: CK breaker life..... (Mickey Coggins)
9. 10:37 AM - Re: CK breaker life..... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:56 PM - Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 03:11 PM - Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? (Eric M. Jones)
12. 03:56 PM - Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? (Gilles Thesee)
13. 06:18 PM - capacitor and music jack help needed (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
14. 07:30 PM - (bob noffs)
15. 08:16 PM - Re: capacitor and music jack help needed (Matt Prather)
16. 11:32 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Was antennas Now Fuse Block Location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Here's my take on the same problem, perhaps some similar method could be
employed on yours- trays are secured with thumbscrews through the tray and into
platenuts on bottom of the sub-panel, which is about 6 inches behind the main
panel. Thumbscrews are retained in tray with small "keeper" washers (don't
recall exact name) that slip over the threads up against the back side of the
tray. First log entry shows initial tray fabrication and fitting:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5002
Click "Next Entry>>" at top of page to see right tray installed- left
thumbscrew is shown (small round brown plastic knob) and hole for other one is
on
right side of tray. Continue clicking next entry for subsequent views of panel
construction- there are a few more of the trays later on...
Mark Phillips - Columbia, TN
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Internal OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:02 PM 9/30/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
>I recently discovered a not-yet-available 60A alternator on the internet at
>http://www.plane-power.com/AL12-EI60.htm. The ad says "12 volt, 60 amp,
>internally regulated alternator kit includes regulator, overvoltage
>protection,
>brackets, pulley, mounting hardware and belt for use in EXPERIMENTAL
>aircraft."
>After seeing Bob's recent comments about IR not being optimized for OVP, I
>sent
>the builder a note asking about the OV protection in his alternator. His OVP
>is crowbar. The correspondence is below. This info is FYI. Do Not Archive.
>Stan Sutterfield
>
>
>Our alternators have over voltage protection that will disable the alternator
>if it detects more than 16 volts by tripping the 5 amp =E2=80=9Calternator
>enable=E2=80=9D
>circuit breaker . It is known as a crow-bar circuit and has been around for
>years.
>Best Regards,
>Steve
Yes, I've heard of this product. I think I've also mentioned
in years past, a schematic that I observed for some COTS
automotive alternator that used the American-Grumman approach
to OVP. They shunt a 16v zener downstream of a fuse for the field
supply INTERNAL to an alternator with an internal regulator.
This style of crowbar ovp is discussed in the 'Connecion and
elsewhere. While it offers considerable inconvenience in terms
of recovering from the OV event, it still passes muster with
the feds for a firewall between control and protection.
I completed my hand-shake agreement yesterday with the folks
who own the big drive stands. I can arrange for use of the machines
on a non-interference basis. Were getting closer to the acquisition
of DATA.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: CK breaker life..... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:45 PM 9/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
>
>I'm not referring to cycles but age of the unit. I've had two breakers
>on a '71 Bellanca Viking. One was a P&B 1 amp unit that supplied a
>KLN90 GPS and the other, just last week, was a 5 amp ETA unit that
>supplied the the autopilot (had an "event" that tripped the breaker
>and found the cause to be a deformed contact on the bridge of the
>24 pin Centronics connector Century Flight used for the control
>head).
>
>I suppose the ETA unit had a reason but the P&B unit just quit.
>Wondering if I'm just lucky or are there age related lifetimes ( and
>not related to the normal resistance buildups)....
Do you still have the failed breakers? I'd love to do
teardown inspections and see if we can deduce failure
modes. It's been my general observation that most
failures of electro-mechanical devices on light aircraft
die of old age. I think I've mentioned several times
here on the List that while study and understanding of
manufacturer's specifications is important, I cannot
recall a single instance where I've removed a failed
part wherein the part died due to lack of proper
respect for the part's ratings (i.e. overstressed
beyond manufacturer's published ratings).
Just last winter, I found a switch that went open
on the panel of a Beechjet. It was a $high$ Honneywell-
Microswitch product that was seldom moved. The airplane
was about 15 years old. In this particular case, the
contacts had corroded sufficiently to OPEN the circuit
on what was mechanically a brand new switch.
The tech I was working with wanted to go get a
replacement from the stockroom ($150 part/$150
labor to replace) but I asked him to hold off.
I connected a bench supply across the switch in
a constant current mode (3A I think) and set
it for 50v. After operating the switch a few
dozen times, contact resistance for the switch
was back down in the 4 milliohm range. The switch
will probably go another dozen years before it
needs attention. On the other hand, I don't KNOW
for sure if that was the original switch. Shucks,
there might have been a number of replacements
of that switch before I crossed paths with it.
This points out the risks of placing much stock
in second -> tenth-hand anecdotal data. "Anecdotal"
doesn't have to mean worthless or in error . . .
just suspect. When the data is first-hand,
one can have a fair confidence in the usefulness
of the data. As it passes through more individuals,
the need for healthy skepticism goes up.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | CK breaker life..... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Sounds like a good reason to specify gold contacts.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CK breaker life.....
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:45 PM 9/30/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
>
>I'm not referring to cycles but age of the unit. I've had two breakers
>on a '71 Bellanca Viking. One was a P&B 1 amp unit that supplied a
>KLN90 GPS and the other, just last week, was a 5 amp ETA unit that
>supplied the the autopilot (had an "event" that tripped the breaker
>and found the cause to be a deformed contact on the bridge of the
>24 pin Centronics connector Century Flight used for the control
>head).
>
>I suppose the ETA unit had a reason but the P&B unit just quit.
>Wondering if I'm just lucky or are there age related lifetimes ( and
>not related to the normal resistance buildups)....
Do you still have the failed breakers? I'd love to do
teardown inspections and see if we can deduce failure
modes. It's been my general observation that most
failures of electro-mechanical devices on light aircraft
die of old age. I think I've mentioned several times
here on the List that while study and understanding of
manufacturer's specifications is important, I cannot
recall a single instance where I've removed a failed
part wherein the part died due to lack of proper
respect for the part's ratings (i.e. overstressed
beyond manufacturer's published ratings).
Just last winter, I found a switch that went open
on the panel of a Beechjet. It was a $high$ Honneywell-
Microswitch product that was seldom moved. The airplane
was about 15 years old. In this particular case, the
contacts had corroded sufficiently to OPEN the circuit
on what was mechanically a brand new switch.
The tech I was working with wanted to go get a
replacement from the stockroom ($150 part/$150
labor to replace) but I asked him to hold off.
I connected a bench supply across the switch in
a constant current mode (3A I think) and set
it for 50v. After operating the switch a few
dozen times, contact resistance for the switch
was back down in the 4 milliohm range. The switch
will probably go another dozen years before it
needs attention. On the other hand, I don't KNOW
for sure if that was the original switch. Shucks,
there might have been a number of replacements
of that switch before I crossed paths with it.
This points out the risks of placing much stock
in second -> tenth-hand anecdotal data. "Anecdotal"
doesn't have to mean worthless or in error . . .
just suspect. When the data is first-hand,
one can have a fair confidence in the usefulness
of the data. As it passes through more individuals,
the need for healthy skepticism goes up.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Cage horizon when powering up ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>>To cage or not to cage before powering up our electric gyro ?
>>Do you happen to have any more information ?
>>
>>
>
> I've talk to two ol' instrument mechanics with square
> glasses who said about the same thing. Manufacturers
> of gyros have published various admonitions for use of their
> products to avoid unnecessary stresses and/or avoid obvious
> hazards to damage. There's no consistent thread among them
> except that the same items keep popping up from time to time.
>
> They were aware of no gyro products that would exhibit
> a demonstrably longer service life in a non-aerobatic
> aircraft based on caging habits of the pilot. Some gyros
> would erect faster if uncaged after power up but even that
> "benefit" was marginally useful . . . there were no properly
> operating gyros that wouldn't be fully stood up by the time
> the airplane was ready for takeoff no matter how it was
> oriented before power up. I'll keep nosing around.
>
>
Bob,
Thank you once again for your help.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 6
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Subject: | Why are wire strands tinned ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Another question about wires. I know it has been addressed in the past,
but couldn't remember.
Are the strands tinned for solderability ? Or corrosion resistance, or
both ?
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I believe it was done primarily for Corrosion resistance. In older
automobiles it was not unusual to start to have electrical problems after
about 10 years or so due to the oxygen penetrating the plastic insulation
and causing oxidation of the copper changing the conducting properties of
the wire. Of course it does help the solderability of the wire as well.
Your name reminded me - I have an ancestor named Gilles Bertrand from
L'eveche De St Brieuc, Bretagne France. Hope to visit someday.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Why are wire strands tinned ?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Another question about wires. I know it has been addressed in the past,
> but couldn't remember.
> Are the strands tinned for solderability ? Or corrosion resistance, or
> both ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Regards,
>
> Gilles Thesee
> Grenoble, France
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: CK breaker life..... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> Sounds like a good reason to specify gold contacts.
I prefer Bob's suggestion of using the switches
regularly.
The Pipers I fly that belong to our flying club all
recently had an "avionics master switch" installed,
and an "emergency avionics master switch bypass".
I cringed when I saw that, but what can I say. Now,
part of my startup procedure is to turn on the master,
turn on the master avionics switch, and then power off
and on all the avionics controlled by the "avionics
master switch". That switch has saved me a lot of time! :-)
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 9
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Subject: | CK breaker life..... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:29 AM 10/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
>Sounds like a good reason to specify gold contacts.
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
Maybe. This particular switch was tasked with carrying
a couple of amps . . . on occasion.
For those interested in studying contact science and switch
design vs. application, I'll recommend these two documents from
one of the premier suppliers of switches. See:
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/basicswitches/technical/010172.pdf
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/basicswitches/technical/001008_3.pdf
I used a number of jewels of simple-ideas from these documents
while running down a sticking relay problem a few years ago and
for some open-contact problems some time later. These are unusually
enlightening papers.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:53 AM 10/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> Are the strands tinned for solderability ? Or corrosion resistance, or
> both ?
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
><eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>I believe it was done primarily for Corrosion resistance. In older
>automobiles it was not unusual to start to have electrical problems after
>about 10 years or so due to the oxygen penetrating the plastic insulation
>and causing oxidation of the copper changing the conducting properties of
>the wire. Of course it does help the solderability of the wire as well.
Ed is right, it was mostly for corrosion resistance but solderability
gets a direct benefit from corrosion free or lightly corroded surfaces.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
There is not much reason to plate the copper wire. I have seen cables where
some wire was plated only for identification (apparently), while audio buffs
claim that copper oxide causes diode effects and thus all audio wire should
be plated. Of course, all real audiophiles are insane.
Marine types say it is to prevent corrosion. So they have tinned copper
cables yet put copper bottoms on their boats. Copper and brass are good in
saltwater.
One could surmise that some high-frequency effects are improved because of
skin effect.
There are local old houses hereabouts wired in IRON wire.
My guess is it's just floccinaucinihilipilification.
By the way I will gladly sample my Super-4-CCA to interested parties. Email
me off list.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"The problem with the world is that only the intelligent people want to be
smarter, and only the good people want to improve."
- Eolake Stobblehouse
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Why are wire strands tinned ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Ed Anderson a crit :
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>I believe it was done primarily for Corrosion resistance. In older
>automobiles it was not unusual to start to have electrical problems after
>about 10 years or so due to the oxygen penetrating the plastic insulation
>and causing oxidation of the copper changing the conducting properties of
>the wire. Of course it does help the solderability of the wire as well.
>
>Your name reminded me - I have an ancestor named Gilles Bertrand from
>L'eveche De St Brieuc, Bretagne France. Hope to visit someday.
>
>
Thanks to Bob, Ed, Eric (in alphabetic order ;-) for your answers.
Ed, the Bretagne is a fascinating land. It is the westernmost part of
France, forests, fields and moors beaten by the westerlies, ragged rocky
coasts and menhirs erected by people long forgotten.
Everywhere in Bretagne you'll feel the presence of the fairies and
magicians of past centuries, and the sea is ever present.
And yet in summer it is the warmest of all places.
Well, would you believe I love this land ?
Best regards,
Amicalement,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 13
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Subject: | capacitor and music jack help needed |
1.53 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I have a XCOM 760 radio and I just checked into their website for the first time
in a long time and leared that they now insist all their radios must be fitted
with a 22,000uF/25VDC electrolytic capacitor, 85C. But I can't find that
exact match using google, e-bay or any of the couple of electronic web site catalogs
I bookmarked.
Can anyone help?
While I'm at it, I never did run across a mono music jack that I'm supposed to
find and purchase for their premade harness. The harness has two tinned bare
wires that are "Y"d on the jack end and all the 1/8th inch mono jacks in the local
electronic stores seem to have 3 or 4 solder lugs on them. So I didn't want
to experiment and ruin the radio or an ipod. Does anyone have an idea on
what to do about that as well? Any XCOM 760 users out there?
thanks,
Lucky
I have a XCOM 760 radio and I just checked into their website for the first time
in a long time and leared that they now insist all their radios must be fitted
with a 22,000uF/25VDC electrolytic capacitor, 85C. But I can't find that exact
match using google, e-bay or any of the couple of electronic web site catalogs
I bookmarked.
Can anyone help?
While I'm at it, I never did run across a mono music jack thatI'm supposed to find
and purchasefor their premade harness. The harness has two tinned bare wires
that are "Y"d on thejack endand all the 1/8th inch mono jacks in the local
electronic stores seem to have 3 or 4 solder lugs on them. So I didn't want to
experiment and ruinthe radio or an ipod. Does anyone have an idea on what to
do about that as well? Any XCOM 760 users out there?
thanks,
Lucky
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net>
hi all, thanks to all for replys on the antenna and individual fuse holders. the
fuse holders are definitely out of the picture. they definitely leave a lot
of wire unprotected. i am leaning toward a fuse box with some sort of cover.
i am not sure what i will do about the antenna. guess i will sit on that one
for a while.
bob noffs
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: capacitor and music jack help needed |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hello Lucky,
See below.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>
> I have a XCOM 760 radio and I just checked into their website for the
> first time in a long time and leared that they now insist all their
> radios must be fitted with a 22,000uF/25VDC electrolytic capacitor,
> 85C. But I can't find that exact match using google, e-bay or any of
> the couple of electronic web site catalogs I bookmarked.
>
It would be perfectly safe to substitute a cap with a higher voltage
rating. Googling around, I found several different caps in the 30-50VDC
rating range. To be honest with you though, this seems like ridulously
large cap for a 5W radio. These caps are cheap and plentiful however, so
there's no harm in doing as the manufacture specifies. At the same time,
I'd be tempted to install and test the radio without the cap (there's no
risk to the radio). If you have a performance problem (noise), then
consider adding the cap.
snip
> thanks,
> Lucky
>
Regards,
Matt-
Message 16
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Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com
Dear Lister,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
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- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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