AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 10/11/05


Total Messages Posted: 38



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:02 AM - Alternator recall ()
     2. 04:10 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
     3. 04:14 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
     4. 04:25 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
     5. 05:54 AM - Re: George (Rodney Dunham)
     6. 06:53 AM - Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit breaker issues  (BobsV35B@aol.com)
     7. 06:59 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
     8. 07:24 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
     9. 07:29 AM - Re: Alternator blast tubes. (Bob C.)
    10. 08:06 AM - Re: strobe problem (Werner Schneider)
    11. 08:15 AM - Re: Alternator blast tubes. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 08:23 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    13. 08:39 AM - Re: strobe problem (Ken)
    14. 08:40 AM - Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit breaker issues  (Jim Baker)
    15. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: George (Wayne)
    16. 09:06 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    17. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: George (sportav8r@aol.com)
    18. 09:12 AM - Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit br... (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    19. 09:40 AM - Controlling IR ND Alternators ()
    20. 10:19 AM - Re: Audio Wire Shielded? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    21. 10:22 AM - Re: Solid State contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    22. 10:28 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
    23. 12:05 PM - Flap Switch (Speedy11@aol.com)
    24. 12:38 PM - Re: Flap Switch (Bob White)
    25. 12:40 PM - Re: Flap Switch (Earl_Schroeder)
    26. 01:00 PM - Re: Flap Switch (N5SL)
    27. 01:02 PM - Re: Flap Switch (D Wysong)
    28. 01:42 PM - Butt Splices (bob rundle)
    29. 01:48 PM - Re: Butt Splices (Richard Dudley)
    30. 02:40 PM - TED Connector (John Tvedte)
    31. 04:57 PM - FI engine fuel flow (AI Nut)
    32. 05:35 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ken)
    33. 06:25 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ed Anderson)
    34. 06:29 PM - Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester (Rodney Dunham)
    35. 07:53 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (AI Nut)
    36. 08:43 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ed Anderson)
    37. 08:52 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ed Anderson)
    38. 09:44 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (AI Nut)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:02:20 AM PST US
    From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Alternator recall
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com> Paul: I can guarantee any recall you refer to does not involve any ND alternator in the 60amp or less range. In my previous research of the ND alternators builders use the small frame 40-55 amp (two wire) and the medium frame 60 amp (3 wire, remote sense). These ND alternators are used in Toyota and Suzuki / Geo auto models and there where no reported complaints, service bulletins, recalls or safety alerts. Actually as a brand, ND has no recorded problems that I found at the time. Most alternators made today are 100 amp plus and not the same as the ones in common use in experimental aircraft. The high amp units are large and weigh more, so that is why they may not be as popular as the earlier model lower amp models. If you are talking about Nissan I think 99% of their alternators are Hitachi or brands other than ND. If you are referring to the Nissan Murano recall, I can't tell you what model alternator it is, likely a 110amp Hitachi. Regardless the recall is benign, a wire comes off and the battery stops being charged according to the info I quickly looked up. The symptom besides the battery gets no charge is the ALT idiot light illuminates. As far as fire anyone with a computer can look this stuff up with a little effort. The web site is NSTSA, or just google combos of words like: alternator, recall, fires, electrical, Nissan, nippondenso, hitachi, mitsubishi, delco, prestolite, motorolla. You will not find any fire produced by a denso alternator. Many fires are from external wiring near the alternator or from other components on the engine near the wiring. Lesson is keep your alternator and wiring shielded and protected very well. Bottom line the ND service history very good and if you have specific info please share. Remember there are 1000's ND flying in aircraft all over. Some ND alternators have been in service for 10 years and +800 to +1000 hours in aircraft. As far as "OTHER" so-called superior electrical systems, which are experimental, hand made/modified components from a small company, exclusively installed in experimental aircraft. There is no tracking of the reliability of these specialty devices because they are exclusively used for experimental aircraft. (Not withstanding some parts have been STC as a back-up only electrical source). The maker says they have failure analysis blaaa blaaa blaaa. There is no data and there is no way to prove their products reliability, but that does not stop them from talking about the reliability of the ND alternator, which they know nothing about. Ironically these specialty experimental parts are based on ND alternators, go figure. There is no solid data on the "superior" device reliability, failures. There are not even any data on how many are in use for how many total fleet hours in service. So when comparing reliability consider the source. Now consider a large company like ND, who makes alternators/voltage regulators, albeit for autos and industrial equipment, they are designed by professional engineers whose expertise is in making electronics and alternators. Also as far as overvoltage do you think that the computers in cars are cheap? Overvoltage is of major concern and alternators are well designed for it. It's one thing for a wire to come loose and replace the alternator, but a car's computer can cost big buck$. I found no reported overvoltage in any car by the way. The break through in alternators for autos will be from future cars that drive themselves with radar, sonic and mag sensors, gps and "autopilots". More power and redundancy will be considered for these robot cars. Even now some alternators have a "data link" to the cars computers. Regardless current alternators for cars are very reliable. Even with the advanced design of current and future auto electrical systems, some so called experts will still be holding on to their 1960's technology and have you wire a bunch of "extra" stuff on because......(why?) As you can see recalls can be expensive to auto-makers and at loss of reputation; therefore great care is taken in the design and manufacture of these devices. To be honest Hitachi has a long standing history of problems, as well as other brands, Bosch, Ford, Delco. On the other hand ND alternators do not have any significant history of problems. ND's are in many makes and models but primarily in Honda, Acura, Lexus and Toyota. Hitachi is mostly in Nissan. Mitsubishi are of course in cars of the same name and other makes like Mazda and Nissan. It is up to the individual to research the alternator for proper installation and operation. Some folks feel that we are too stupid to make our own decisions and choices. My advice has been research the alternator you use, regardless of brand (stay away from Hitachi) and install and operate it as intended in the original application, whether from a car or folk lift. If Van or Burt Rutan designed airframes like some design electrical systems they would still be made of wood, fabric and have two wings, aka bi-plane. George >Date: Sep 29, 2005 >From: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com> >Subject: Re: ND two-lead alternator question > >HI George. >Do you have any knowledge about the Nissan recall to replace over >100000 alternators? I just wonder who provided the alternator that >had internal shorts and cause fires. >Regards, Paul W ---------------------------------


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:10:24 AM PST US
    From: rd2@evenlink.com
    Subject: Re: strobe problem
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com >I thought Aeroflash strobes were only for the experimental category? They offer product for both experimental and certified. I've seen/heard of many Cessnas with Aeroflash product. Maybe Bob would know more about this? Rumen do not archive


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:14:32 AM PST US
    From: rd2@evenlink.com
    Subject: Re: strobe problem
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Hi Werner, 2 separate PS in ea. wingtip. Changing to LED is not an option currently. Probably will play a bit with it and will end up buying a new PS, was able to fing one at ..spruce for ~100. Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Werner Schneider; Date: 08:20 AM 10/11/2005 +0200) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> Hello Rumen, what kind of Aeroflash setup do you have, PS at the wingtips or central? However on my aeroflash units one of the capacitors gave up (what a mess) as they are special made you have to get a reconditoned or a new PS. As I'm running an experimental I did change the whole setup, to LED and car strobe PS. br Werner


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:25:16 AM PST US
    From: rd2@evenlink.com
    Subject: Re: strobe problem
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Thanks for all suggestions on troubleshooting the strobe PS. Rumen do not archive


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:54:40 AM PST US
    From: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
    Subject: RE: George
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com> George, Take it eeeeeasy, Buckwheat! You are obviously an intelligent and well educated and trained pilot person. You have strong opinions and are passionate about your love of aviation and things electrical. That's great. So write a book or start a web site. But get over it! I, for one, am here because I have read Bob's book, agree with his design philosophy and seek to improve my knowledge and abilities vis a vis wiring my SkyRanger and soon, a Sonex. I am a physician, an engineer of things human, with limited practical experience and knowledge of OBAM aircraft electrical engineering. My greatest need, electrical wise, before reading the 'Connection was to understand my aircraft's electrical system so that I could #1 deal with it safely in failure mode, #2 fix it if something went wrong and #3 build the dang thing! All three of these objectives have been met beautifully by studying the 'Connection and Bob's design architecture as a springboard to my own unique but very similar design. Additionally, I have become a person recognized at the flight park as knowledgable in aircraft wiring! Imagine that. Last year I could not even spell electerical engineer and now I ARE one! Recently two of the aircraft in adjacent hangers had electrical issues, both resulting in VR failure. I was able to properly diagnose the condition in each case and taught them some fundamental electrical theory with its practical applications in the airframe environment. WOW! That was neat. Lately, I've torn down my panel to rewire my ICOM A-200 radio. It was wired by a "dealer" and with my new found knowledge of things electrical I have recognized the inadequecies of the installation. My flying buddies recognized a long time before me because they complained of trashy transmitting. Without hesitation, I tore into the project and actually enjoyed it! I would never have even attempted such a project before the 'Connection. That's why I am a devotee of the 'Connection. It makes sense for me, in my airplane, at my flight park! It's not for everyone, and Bob doesn't claim it to be. It meets the criteria set out by the designers to provide safe, worry-free flying designed by and built by amateurs. Most of us are here to get Bob's opinion because we respect it! We've done our homework and we like it :o) We even sometimes help the newbies with our knowledge either on-line or at the hanger fly-in. This is GOOD for the sport and for aviation in general. And yes, even for general aviation. So... Take a chill pill. Relax. Have a pickle. We'll still respect you in the morning! Rodney in Tennessee


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:53:28 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit
    breaker issues --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning Jim, I know I am getting in on this conversation very late and may have missed many pertinent points. I am also unable to determine the name of the original commentator to which you were replying. Nevertheless, I would like to comment on the portion pasted in below. It has been my observation that the most common cause of problems with the IO-550 engine has been having the mixture set "Not Rich Enough" at full throttle and takeoff power. When the commentator says the engine was run at full rich to keep it cool, how rich is he talking about? That engine should flow at least twenty-eight GPH on a 'sea level conditions' takeoff. Personally. I like to see them set at twenty-nine to thirty GPH under those conditions. I have seen many brand new engines that were flowing as low as twenty-four GPH. That is dangerously low. It is a lot easier for a pilot to lean the engine a bit if maximum power is needed than it is to richen it a bit if the engine is running too lean. It takes the Braly, Deakin, Atkinson team three days to explain all this adequately at their seminars so I won't try to do so in a paragraph or two, but I agree totally that temperature is a function of mixture and that temperatures can be raised or lowered by either richening or leaning the mixture. It All Depends on what is trying to be accomplished. The fastest way to reduce cylinder head temperatures that are rapidly going out of sight to the high side is to rapidly lean the engine well to the lean side of peak EGT! The major point is that our aircraft engines are designed to operate at very rich mixtures during the takeoff regime. If they are not rich enough, bad things, including, but not limited to, detonation, can occur. Merely pushing the mixture control to the full rich position will NOT assure that the mixture is as rich as it should be. And, as you stated, trying to control the oil temperature with mixture is a very roundabout way of doing so. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 10/11/2005 1:07:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, jlbaker@telepath.com writes: This is a key piece of info....have the data been saved? Mr. Braley might be interested in seeing these.......???? > He was running it full rich to try to keep the oil temps down. If he > had leaned it the oil temp would have been much higher. And I'll bet he didn't even try to lean it. Intuition says lean is hotter, and that may be true up to a certain fuel/air ratio, but then things get a lot cooler...fast!...when leaned. Figure 8-9 in Taylor's The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory And Practice, Vol 1, Thermodynamics, says a lot about gas temperatures.....


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:59:57 AM PST US
    Subject: strobe problem
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10. They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Hi all, What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in a cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s? Rumen _


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:24:31 AM PST US
    Subject: strobe problem
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> This is not true...Any capacitor with the same number (0.5microfarad at 450 V I think) will work for a couple of years before you replace it again...Much better than the $50 rebuilidng fee! Needless to say my new project will NOT be running Aeroflash! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider --> <glastar@gmx.net> Hello Rumen, what kind of Aeroflash setup do you have, PS at the wingtips or central? However on my aeroflash units one of the capacitors gave up (what a mess) as they are special made you have to get a reconditoned or a new PS. As I'm running an experimental I did change the whole setup, to LED and car strobe PS. br Werner rd2@evenlink.com wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > >Hi all, > >What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in a >cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb works >ok when connected to another power supply; the original power supply gives >a humming noise. Capacitor/s? > >Rumen > > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:29:16 AM PST US
    From: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator blast tubes.
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com> Good question Dean, Also what about other blast tubes . . . mags, etc. Regards, Bob Christensen RV-8 Builder - SE Iowa On 10/10/05, DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> wrote: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" < > dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> > > Bob: > > Given your comments below, does that mean I don't NEED to install a blast > tube to my alternator? I'm currently finishing my engine baffling > installation and have to locate some blast tube flanges to rivet on to the > baffling if required. If not then I won't have to find a flange and go to > the trouble(and won't have a large air leak out of the baffles either). > I'm > planning on installing the B&C 60 amp alternator. Please advise. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > South Florida > > > --------------Original > message---------------------------------------------- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > Experiment". > > I'm continually amazed at the numbers of threads over the years > where builders are advised to take fans off 'cause they > "run the wrong way". Or, "add blast tubes to avoid overheating", > or any number of other remedies to mitigate an alternator > failure . . . Yet not a single discussion talked about studies > to measure operating temperatures or any suggestion that they be done. > > Alternator failures on OBAM aircraft are probably more rare... > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:06:01 AM PST US
    From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
    Subject: Re: strobe problem
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> Frank the problem with the aeroflash is, they are custom made for them, we've found a close one, lasted for 10 hrs only, so no luck Werner do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> > >I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with >capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the >numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10. > >They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite! > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >rd2@evenlink.com >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > >Hi all, > >What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in a >cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb >works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power >supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s? > >Rumen > > >_ > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:15:55 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator blast tubes.
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 12:04 AM 10/11/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" ><dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> > >Bob: > >Given your comments below, does that mean I don't NEED to install a blast >tube to my alternator? I'm currently finishing my engine baffling >installation and have to locate some blast tube flanges to rivet on to the >baffling if required. If not then I won't have to find a flange and go to >the trouble(and won't have a large air leak out of the baffles either). I'm >planning on installing the B&C 60 amp alternator. Please advise. Can't do that with any foundations in simple-ideas. We can draw broad assumptions from the general success in OBAM aircraft installations (the vast majority of which are never instrumented) and that of certified aviation where all installations were instrumented. Alternator failures for reasons obviously related to cooling are rare. The apparent success might be attributable in part to the fact that few alternators are EVER subjected to extended hot day Vx cooling conditions under full load. What this means is that you really have a 60A or 40A machine under MOST but not all conditions. The FAA makes us explore all four corners of the envelope. The OBAM aircraft community has (to my knowledge) never explored any corners of the alternators performance/cooling envelope. Nonetheless, failures are rare so odds are decidedly in your favor to install your alternator just like everyone else has and don't worry about it. I hesitate to even offer this discussion because it deals with things very low on the list of concerns for system performance and reliability. The last thing I want to do is inject new worries into anyone's project planning. This is intended to be a simple recitation of observations and facts, not a great call-to-arms 'cause lots of ugly guys in black hats are lurking around the corner salivating over the prospect of trashing your new alternator. The short answer is "no", a blast tube on your alternator installation will have a low probability of adding value to your system if it's operated like 99.9% of all the other OBAM aircraft without blast tubes. Now, that's based on MY current suite of data points. If Van's or some other source recommends cooling, you'll have to ask them. "Is this based on real data or is it a hedge against having to go measure something." Bob . . .


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:23:03 AM PST US
    Subject: strobe problem
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> Oh yes also I found that I had a problem with another component once...Can't rmember what it was but it was humming and vibrating and replacing the cap did not cure the problem. I basically poked around the board and eventually it sparked right up...Turns out I had a dry joint in the board. Re did the soldered joint and it worked fine. I have replaced each capacitor at least twice in 6 years. The caps I have been replacing with are not probably rated for strobe use but for $10 who cares?...:) About the hardest part in replacing a cap is drilling out the pop rivets..:) Frank >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > >Hi all, > >What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in a >cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb works >ok when connected to another power supply; the original power supply gives >a humming noise. Capacitor/s? > >Rumen > > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:39:38 AM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: strobe problem
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Many capacitors tend to have short lives in this kind of service. I've never had much success finding replacement strobe capacitors. Even so called "low ESR" (equivalent series resistance) capacitors seem to run warm but they'd be my choice if I couldn't find the proper ones.. Ken Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> > >I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with >capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the >numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10. > >They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite! > >Frank > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:40:21 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
    Subject: Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit
    breaker issues --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com> > It has been my observation that the most common cause of problems with > the IO-550 engine has been having the mixture set "Not Rich Enough" > at full throttle and takeoff power. An excellent point. And perhaps an admonishment to not entirely trust the "fuel flow" meter on the panel (unless calibrated). One of the Deakin articles on AvWeb makes just this point. Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:48:33 AM PST US
    From: "Wayne" <webfootboat@comcast.net>
    Subject: RE: George
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne" <webfootboat@comcast.net> HEAR HEAR Wayne -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodney Dunham Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: George --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com> George, Take it eeeeeasy, Buckwheat! You are obviously an intelligent and well educated and trained pilot person. You have strong opinions and are passionate about your love of aviation and things electrical. That's great. So write a book or start a web site. But get over it! I, for one, am here because I have read Bob's book, agree with his design philosophy and seek to improve my knowledge and abilities vis a vis wiring my SkyRanger and soon, a Sonex. I am a physician, an engineer of things human, with limited practical experience and knowledge of OBAM aircraft electrical engineering. My greatest need, electrical wise, before reading the 'Connection was to understand my aircraft's electrical system so that I could #1 deal with it safely in failure mode, #2 fix it if something went wrong and #3 build the dang thing! All three of these objectives have been met beautifully by studying the 'Connection and Bob's design architecture as a springboard to my own unique but very similar design. Additionally, I have become a person recognized at the flight park as knowledgable in aircraft wiring! Imagine that. Last year I could not even spell electerical engineer and now I ARE one! Recently two of the aircraft in adjacent hangers had electrical issues, both resulting in VR failure. I was able to properly diagnose the condition in each case and taught them some fundamental electrical theory with its practical applications in the airframe environment. WOW! That was neat. Lately, I've torn down my panel to rewire my ICOM A-200 radio. It was wired by a "dealer" and with my new found knowledge of things electrical I have recognized the inadequecies of the installation. My flying buddies recognized a long time before me because they complained of trashy transmitting. Without hesitation, I tore into the project and actually enjoyed it! I would never have even attempted such a project before the 'Connection. That's why I am a devotee of the 'Connection. It makes sense for me, in my airplane, at my flight park! It's not for everyone, and Bob doesn't claim it to be. It meets the criteria set out by the designers to provide safe, worry-free flying designed by and built by amateurs. Most of us are here to get Bob's opinion because we respect it! We've done our homework and we like it :o) We even sometimes help the newbies with our knowledge either on-line or at the hanger fly-in. This is GOOD for the sport and for aviation in general. And yes, even for general aviation. So... Take a chill pill. Relax. Have a pickle. We'll still respect you in the morning! Rodney in Tennessee


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:06:20 AM PST US
    Subject: strobe problem
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> Hmm..I get a hundred to 200 hours out of the ones from my mail order catalogue...I'll look up the number when I have a minute. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider --> <glastar@gmx.net> Frank the problem with the aeroflash is, they are custom made for them, we've found a close one, lasted for 10 hrs only, so no luck Werner do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >--> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> > >I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with >capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the >numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10. > >They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite! > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >rd2@evenlink.com >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > >Hi all, > >What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in >a cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb >works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power >supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s? > >Rumen > > >_ > > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:06:33 AM PST US
    From: sportav8r@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RE: George
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Hear, hear, hear! -Stormy another "human engineer" well-served by the 'Connection & list. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne <webfootboat@comcast.net> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: George --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne" <webfootboat@comcast.net> HEAR HEAR Wayne -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodney Dunham Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: George --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com> George, Take it eeeeeasy, Buckwheat! You are obviously an intelligent and well educated and trained pilot person. You have strong opinions and are passionate about your love of aviation and things electrical. That's great. So write a book or start a web site. But get over it! I, for one, am here because I have read Bob's book, agree with his design philosophy and seek to improve my knowledge and abilities vis a vis wiring my SkyRanger and soon, a Sonex. I am a physician, an engineer of things human, with limited practical experience and knowledge of OBAM aircraft electrical engineering. << Snip do not archive


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:12:32 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit
    br... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 10/11/2005 10:42:00 A.M. Central Standard Time, jlbaker@telepath.com writes: And perhaps an admonishment to not entirely trust the "fuel flow" meter on the panel (unless calibrated). One of the Deakin articles on AvWeb makes just this point. Good Morning Jim, Very good point. The Continental Fuel Injection Manual calls for the fuel pressure/flow gauge to be calibrated using a device called a FloRator (sp?). I have never seen one in even the best equipped shops. Almost everyone these days is either relying on the installer to have set up the fuel controller and fuel pump correctly or they use an electronic fuel flow unit. The problem there is that even the manufacturers of those units tell the installer to calibrate the unit before it is to be relied upon. Lot's of potential for a very inaccurate fuel flow reading. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:40:30 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Controlling IR ND Alternators
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com <<...........skip.........If you need to remove power to the alternator IGN while the BAT/ALT switch is ON, pull the Alt CB in the panel......skip......George>> 10/11/2005 Hello George, I don't understand the above statement. Are you saying that if I want to stop the electrical output from any IR ND alternator configured with an IGN wire that I can remove the voltage / current that may exist on the IGN wire after the alternator is operating by opening a panel mounted CB and the alternator electrical output will cease? If this is not what you are saying could you please clarify? <<.....skip.......Golden RULES of IR alternator use:....skip......Use a B-lead CB in the panel that can be pulled, forget the non-standard auto Busman fuse concept**......skip......>> But if the alternator electrical output can normally be shut down by opening the IGN wire CB why would you need a second much larger CB (capable of handling the current in the B lead) in the instrument panel in order to stop alternator electrical output at that large CB? Are you advocating having the second large CB installed just in case some abnormal alternator operating condition develops? Can you please explain? Thanks, OC


    Message 20


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    Time: 10:19:27 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Audio Wire Shielded?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 03:11 PM 10/10/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com> > >Hello Bob & List, > >I'm installing a Flightcom 403 Intercom with a King KT-76A & Garmin GNC 250 >XL GPS/Comm in a basic VFR Panel. A few questions: > >1 - The wires from the PTT switches will be perpendicular to 'fat' wires >with about 3 inches of separation. Will the use of shielded wire here >produce a noticeable difference? I strongly suspect unshielded is the best >choice, but would rather get an experienced opinion. PTT wires are not potential victims. Further, if you run your PTT wires as a twisted pair such that the control and ground wires run all the way from the switch to the intercom or radio, then they are invulnerable to magnetically coupled interference under even the worst of conditions. >2 - The wires from the mic & phone jacks must run in a bundle of fat wires >for 6ft or run parallel to but about 6 inches away from the transponder >antenna line for about a couple feet of length. Which is the lesser evil? >Would it be idiotic to install an unshielded wire in either case? Shielding is of close to zero value in the aircraft environs. Magnetic and ground loops account for 99.9% of all interference coupling. Twisted conductors that carry both signals and grounds for the remote control or jack will provide all the isolation you need for perfectly satisfactory operation. My diagrams use shielded wire for these functions because I used the shield itself as one of the conductors (usually ground return) which emulates the benefits of twisting . . . and not because the shielding is being depended upon to act as an electrostatic shield. Bob . . .


    Message 21


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    Time: 10:22:03 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Solid State contactors
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 12:37 PM 10/10/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Angier M. Ames" <N2811A@comcast.net> > >Hello Bob, > >My Lancair 360 has the usual master and starter contactors as well as >two more contactors for the gear system. Do you know of any solid >state devices which could replace these contactors? The short answer is "no" . . . I've participated in some solid state contactor designs that have proven to have great return on investment but they're about $3000 each and not suited for use as a battery contactor (you need two-way current flow). Can you share your design goals for this substitution? Lower cost of ownership, lighter, more efficient, longer service life, etc. ???? Have the contactors on your airplane proven troublesome? Contactors used in personally owned and operated aircraft then to have VERY low usage numbers . . . so low in fact that many components in our airplanes die of old age and long term environmental effects as opposed to wear out to end of service life. My reason for asking is to make sure that you're not paying for perceived reliability or service life that's not a good return on investment. If you could expand on your concerns and/or design goals, perhaps we can offer more useful suggestions. Bob . . .


    Message 22


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    Time: 10:28:06 AM PST US
    From: rd2@evenlink.com
    Subject: strobe problem
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Mine (aeroflsh), if trusting the logs, lasted apparently ~20 years and over 2000 hours; I had to replace one last year; this year is the other wing's turn. Could this be true - over 20 yrs and over tach 2000 hrs. ? Seems long. Any experiences? Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis); Date: 09:04 AM 10/11/2005 -0700) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> Hmm..I get a hundred to 200 hours out of the ones from my mail order catalogue...I'll look up the number when I have a minute. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider --> <glastar@gmx.net> Frank the problem with the aeroflash is, they are custom made for them, we've found a close one, lasted for 10 hrs only, so no luck Werner do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >--> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> > >I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with >capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the >numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10. > >They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite! > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >rd2@evenlink.com >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > >Hi all, > >What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in >a cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb >works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power >supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s? > >Rumen > > >_ > > > > --


    Message 23


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    Time: 12:05:52 PM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Flap Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com I have a question for folks on the list. I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control of the flaps to a switch on the stick. My question is - what switch would I use for the panel to accomplish the desired results? Stan Sutterfield www.rv-8a.net


    Message 24


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    Time: 12:38:54 PM PST US
    From: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
    Subject: Re: Flap Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com> Hi Stan, It sound to me like you want a SPDT (on) off (on) switch on the panel (like the S700-1-7), and the same on the stick, or two PB switches set up to emulate that function. Connect them in parallel, and whichever switch you use will control the flaps. Just don't ever use one switch one way, and the other switch the other way at the same time. Bob W. On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:04:26 EDT Speedy11@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com > > I have a question for folks on the list. > I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on > the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three > positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down > positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control of > the flaps to a switch on the stick. > My question is - what switch would I use for the panel to accomplish the > desired results? > Stan Sutterfield > www.rv-8a.net > > > > > > > > -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (real soon) Prewired EC2 Cables - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/


    Message 25


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    Time: 12:40:52 PM PST US
    From: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
    Subject: Re: Flap Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com> Hi Stan. I'm wondering why you want to disable the switch on the stick? Mine are both active all the time. Am I missing something? Earl >I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on >the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three >positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down >positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control of >the flaps to a switch on the stick. > > >


    Message 26


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    Time: 01:00:56 PM PST US
    From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Flap Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com> Hi Stan : I just installed my flap switch (steinair.com P/N SA-806) and it works just great. In the neutral position you would have complete control of the flaps with your stick switch and relay. I don't see why you need a special flap switch unless you plan to operate both switches at the same time where you could see some sparks. A few carefully placed diodes might eliminate the sparking scenario. Good Luck, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com 601XL / Corvair Working on Wiring and FWF Speedy11@aol.com wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com I have a question for folks on the list. I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on the stick. ---------------------------------


    Message 27


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    Time: 01:02:41 PM PST US
    From: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Flap Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com> Stan - A regular old (ON)-OFF-(ON) toggle switch wired in parallel with your stick will work. The amount of money you want to spend is up to you. On Allied's site (www.alliedelec.com) I found switches from Carling and Honeywell. On the 'cheap', a Carling switch like 6FC5H-73 will run you $8. This is the brand B&C shipped me when I ordered toggles from them. If you prefer to spend more money, how about a 2TL1-70 for $34? D ---------------- Speedy11@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com > > I have a question for folks on the list. > I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on > the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three > positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down > positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control of > the flaps to a switch on the stick. > My question is - what switch would I use for the panel to accomplish the > desired results? > Stan Sutterfield > www.rv-8a.net > > > > > > >


    Message 28


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    Time: 01:42:43 PM PST US
    From: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Butt Splices
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com> I'm looking for some top quality butt splices. The kind where I can see the wire inside the splice and it crimps both the wre and the tefzel covering. Anyone have a good source? Bob R http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/


    Message 29


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    Time: 01:48:34 PM PST US
    From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Butt Splices
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net> Hi Bob, B & C has butt splices like you describe. http://www.bandcspecialty.com/ Richard Dudley -6A flying bob rundle wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com> > >I'm looking for some top quality butt splices. The kind where I can see the >wire inside the splice and it crimps both the wre and the tefzel covering. >Anyone have a good source? > >Bob R > >http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 02:40:22 PM PST US
    Subject: TED Connector
    From: "John Tvedte" <JohnT@comp-sol.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Tvedte" <JohnT@comp-sol.com> I am wondering if someone can point me to a source for a TED 9-30-15 right angle RF connector? It is used on my Apollo SL-70 transponder. Thanks, John


    Message 31


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    Time: 04:57:27 PM PST US
    From: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: FI engine fuel flow
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane. It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line. The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute. Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor output to an A/D for computer input. Thanks! David M. Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.


    Message 32


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    Time: 05:35:15 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: FI engine fuel flow
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Hi David On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest and most accurate way that I've thought of... Ken AI Nut wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> > >I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane. >It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel >requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and >they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need >to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line. >The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute. > >Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor >output to an A/D for computer input. > >Thanks! >David M. >Cost is ALWAYS a consideration. > >


    Message 33


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    Time: 06:25:26 PM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: FI engine fuel flow
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> I have been flying for 4 years with an analogy EFI fuel monitoring system that does just that. I keep track of the injector-On time which together with the known/calibrated flow rate of the injectors gives me both Flow Rate and Total Fuel used. No transducers, No connection to the fuel plumbing at all. On a single wire to one of the injectors. Of course, it only works for electronic fuel injection. I calculated the amount of injector time it took to pass 1,000,000th of a gallon. I then build a pulse generator the period of which was equal to 1/1000,000 of a gallon. Then I gated that pulse generator with the injector pulse width. I then counted the pulses, when I had counted 1,000,000 pulses then I knew a gallon had passed through the injectors. So kept track of the pulses - it was simple in concept but had a horrid parts count and no flexibility. It was less than 0.3% inaccurate (3/10ths of 1 %) of total tank. In fact, the gas pump meter had more error. I am just finishing a digital version of the same which gives a great deal more flexibility and more fuel parameters like setting alarms and warnings. It works on the bench and I just need to install it in aircraft, hopefully this month and test it in the Real World. I use a PIC18F452 microprocessor in the digital version, it has a module (CCP) that is designed to measure electronic pulse widths.. I have been using a character LCD to display the fuel factors, but am now working on a Graphic LCD so I can display the fuel MAP in the computer. That way I can easier tell where there may be holes or peaks in the fuel distribution. Great little chip once you learn it, but of course, plenty of other chips can do the job. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered. Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> > > Hi David > On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the > pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS > injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest > and most accurate way that I've thought of... > Ken > > AI Nut wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> >> >>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane. >>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel >>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and >>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need >>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line. >>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute. >> >>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor >>output to an A/D for computer input. >> >>Thanks! >>David M. >>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration. >> >> > > >


    Message 34


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    Time: 06:29:00 PM PST US
    From: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com> I'm about to build the PMBCT as per the 'Connection, page 2-9. I have purchased the following from Radio Shack; 1) Resistors... 470kOhm 1/2 watt, 5% tolerance (p/n 271-1133) 2) Zener Diode... INT4742A 12 Volt (p/n 276-0563) 3) DPDT Relay... 12VDC coil, 10A 112VAC contact voltage (p/n 275-0218) 4) Transistor... 2N3904 NPN silicon (p/n 276-2016) Will these parts do??? I don't want to smoke anything. I've never built a project box before. Looks like fun. Guess if I can wire an airplane, I can wire a project box :o) Rodney in Tennessee


    Message 35


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    Time: 07:53:31 PM PST US
    From: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: Re: FI engine fuel flow
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the injectors are becoming clogged. Etc. David M. Ken wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> > >Hi David >On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the >pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS >injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest >and most accurate way that I've thought of... >Ken > >AI Nut wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> >> >>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane. >>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel >>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and >>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need >>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line. >>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute. >> >>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor >>output to an A/D for computer input. >> >>Thanks! >>David M. >>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration. >> >> >> >> > > > >


    Message 36


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    Time: 08:43:56 PM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: FI engine fuel flow
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> My experience (300 hours) of flying with Electronic Fuel Injectors, mostly with 100LL, have resulted in no problem with plugged injectors. It may be because when operating our engines are generally outputting considerably more continuos power than the average auto in traffic. This of course results in the injectors being ON more frequently (rpm higher) and for longer duration (higher Manifold pressure). I also think that our engine probably run a bit cooler than those in auto stuck in traffic running an A/C. Its my opinion, that the combination of 100LL, higher power settings and probably cooler operating conditions may result in less tendency for the injectors to plug or clog. In any event, any system should have a calibration means to adjust for difference in injector flow from planned, wear or other causes of flow rate change over time, etc. One good method is as you say - compare what you system says you burned vs what the tank says you burned. Take off and land one the same tank. Stabilize your engine rpm/fuel burn (I like 8 gph) and the switch to your second tank and fly for X amount of time (I like to use an hour), switch back to your take off tank and land. Fill up your "calibration" tank as accurately as you can and compare that to your system generated data. Then calculate what correction factor your need to adjust your system to "reality". Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> > > I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating > injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of > the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or > all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual > fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the > injectors are becoming clogged. Etc. > > David M. > > > Ken wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> >> >>Hi David >>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the >>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS >>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest >>and most accurate way that I've thought of... >>Ken >> >>AI Nut wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> >>> >>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane. >>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel >>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and >>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need >>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line. >>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute. >>> >>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor >>>output to an A/D for computer input. >>> >>>Thanks! >>>David M. >>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 37


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    Time: 08:52:03 PM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: FI engine fuel flow
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> The simplest fuel flow system based on electronic injector open duration costs about $12-$30.00 to make (depending on what's in your electronic junk box). It's based on the concept of pulse duty cycle. It basically integrates the pulse train and drives a 3 digit meter. The one I built was designed to work up to a flow rate of 20 GPH. It has a diode, inverter, couple of capacitors and resistors, including a pot for calibration and the 3 digit meter. It takes a few flights to get it calibrated, but it is surprisingly accurate as a fuel flow meter. I used it for the first year, but decided I also wanted a fuel totalizer and that resulted in a conceptually simple but somewhat implementation complex analogy design. So now I am doing the digital version of the analogy system. If you are interested in the simple system Fuel Flow meter, send me an e mail and I'll send you the schematic. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> > > I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating > injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of > the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or > all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual > fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the > injectors are becoming clogged. Etc. > > David M. > > > Ken wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> >> >>Hi David >>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the >>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS >>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest >>and most accurate way that I've thought of... >>Ken >> >>AI Nut wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> >>> >>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane. >>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel >>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and >>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need >>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line. >>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute. >>> >>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor >>>output to an A/D for computer input. >>> >>>Thanks! >>>David M. >>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 38


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    Time: 09:44:46 PM PST US
    From: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: Re: FI engine fuel flow
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> Thank you kindly for the offer of schematic. The DIY engine controller will handle injector on/off times so can communicate directly with the computer that does fuel calculation. Alternatively, with a bit of extra RAM, the ECU can also handle the fuel calcs and just pass off the totals to the main computer. That's my plan, anyway 8-). David M. Ed Anderson wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> > >The simplest fuel flow system based on electronic injector open duration >costs about $12-$30.00 to make (depending on what's in your electronic junk >box). It's based on the concept of pulse duty cycle. It basically >integrates the pulse train and drives a 3 digit meter. The one I built was >designed to work up to a flow rate of 20 GPH. It has a diode, inverter, >couple of capacitors and resistors, including a pot for calibration and the >3 digit meter. It takes a few flights to get it calibrated, but it is >surprisingly accurate as a fuel flow meter. I used it for the first year, >but decided I also wanted a fuel totalizer and that resulted in a >conceptually simple but somewhat implementation complex analogy design. > >So now I am doing the digital version of the analogy system. > >If you are interested in the simple system Fuel Flow meter, send me an e >mail and I'll send you the schematic. > >Ed Anderson >Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >Matthews, NC >eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net> >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow > > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> >> >>I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating >>injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of >>the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or >>all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual >>fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the >>injectors are becoming clogged. Etc. >> >>David M. >> >> >>Ken wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> >>> >>>Hi David >>>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the >>>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS >>>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest >>>and most accurate way that I've thought of... >>>Ken >>> >>>AI Nut wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net> >>>> >>>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane. >>>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel >>>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and >>>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need >>>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line. >>>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute. >>>> >>>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor >>>>output to an A/D for computer input. >>>> >>>>Thanks! >>>>David M. >>>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >




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