Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Alternator recall ()
2. 04:10 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
3. 04:14 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
4. 04:25 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
5. 05:54 AM - Re: George (Rodney Dunham)
6. 06:53 AM - Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit breaker issues (BobsV35B@aol.com)
7. 06:59 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 07:24 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 07:29 AM - Re: Alternator blast tubes. (Bob C.)
10. 08:06 AM - Re: strobe problem (Werner Schneider)
11. 08:15 AM - Re: Alternator blast tubes. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:23 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 08:39 AM - Re: strobe problem (Ken)
14. 08:40 AM - Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit breaker issues (Jim Baker)
15. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: George (Wayne)
16. 09:06 AM - Re: strobe problem (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: George (sportav8r@aol.com)
18. 09:12 AM - Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit br... (BobsV35B@aol.com)
19. 09:40 AM - Controlling IR ND Alternators ()
20. 10:19 AM - Re: Audio Wire Shielded? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 10:22 AM - Re: Solid State contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 10:28 AM - Re: strobe problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
23. 12:05 PM - Flap Switch (Speedy11@aol.com)
24. 12:38 PM - Re: Flap Switch (Bob White)
25. 12:40 PM - Re: Flap Switch (Earl_Schroeder)
26. 01:00 PM - Re: Flap Switch (N5SL)
27. 01:02 PM - Re: Flap Switch (D Wysong)
28. 01:42 PM - Butt Splices (bob rundle)
29. 01:48 PM - Re: Butt Splices (Richard Dudley)
30. 02:40 PM - TED Connector (John Tvedte)
31. 04:57 PM - FI engine fuel flow (AI Nut)
32. 05:35 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ken)
33. 06:25 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ed Anderson)
34. 06:29 PM - Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester (Rodney Dunham)
35. 07:53 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (AI Nut)
36. 08:43 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ed Anderson)
37. 08:52 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ed Anderson)
38. 09:44 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (AI Nut)
Message 1
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Subject: | Alternator recall |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Paul:
I can guarantee any recall you refer to does not involve any ND alternator in
the 60amp or less range. In my previous research of the ND alternators builders
use the small frame 40-55 amp (two wire) and the medium frame 60 amp (3 wire,
remote sense). These ND alternators are used in Toyota and Suzuki / Geo auto
models and there where no reported complaints, service bulletins, recalls or
safety alerts. Actually as a brand, ND has no recorded problems that I found at
the time. Most alternators made today are 100 amp plus and not the same as the
ones in common use in experimental aircraft. The high amp units are large and
weigh more, so that is why they may not be as popular as the earlier model
lower amp models.
If you are talking about Nissan I think 99% of their alternators are Hitachi or
brands other than ND.
If you are referring to the Nissan Murano recall, I can't tell you what model alternator
it is, likely a 110amp Hitachi. Regardless the recall is benign, a wire
comes off and the battery stops being charged according to the info I quickly
looked up. The symptom besides the battery gets no charge is the ALT idiot
light illuminates.
As far as fire anyone with a computer can look this stuff up with a little effort.
The web site is NSTSA, or just google combos of words like: alternator, recall,
fires, electrical, Nissan, nippondenso, hitachi, mitsubishi, delco, prestolite,
motorolla. You will not find any fire produced by a denso alternator.
Many fires are from external wiring near the alternator or from other components
on the engine near the wiring. Lesson is keep your alternator and wiring shielded
and protected very well.
Bottom line the ND service history very good and if you have specific info please
share. Remember there are 1000's ND flying in aircraft all over. Some ND alternators
have been in service for 10 years and +800 to +1000 hours in aircraft.
As far as "OTHER" so-called superior electrical systems, which are experimental,
hand made/modified components from a small company, exclusively installed in
experimental aircraft. There is no tracking of the reliability of these specialty
devices because they are exclusively used for experimental aircraft. (Not
withstanding some parts have been STC as a back-up only electrical source). The
maker says they have failure analysis blaaa blaaa blaaa. There is no data and
there is no way to prove their products reliability, but that does not stop
them from talking about the reliability of the ND alternator, which they know
nothing about.
Ironically these specialty experimental parts are based on ND alternators, go figure.
There is no solid data on the "superior" device reliability, failures.
There are not even any data on how many are in use for how many total fleet hours
in service. So when comparing reliability consider the source.
Now consider a large company like ND, who makes alternators/voltage regulators,
albeit for autos and industrial equipment, they are designed by professional
engineers whose expertise is in making electronics and alternators. Also as far
as overvoltage do you think that the computers in cars are cheap? Overvoltage
is of major concern and alternators are well designed for it. It's one thing
for a wire to come loose and replace the alternator, but a car's computer can
cost big buck$. I found no reported overvoltage in any car by the way.
The break through in alternators for autos will be from future cars that drive
themselves with radar, sonic and mag sensors, gps and "autopilots". More power
and redundancy will be considered for these robot cars. Even now some alternators
have a "data link" to the cars computers. Regardless current alternators
for cars are very reliable. Even with the advanced design of current and future
auto electrical systems, some so called experts will still be holding on to
their 1960's technology and have you wire a bunch of "extra" stuff on because......(why?)
As you can see recalls can be expensive to auto-makers and at loss of reputation;
therefore great care is taken in the design and manufacture of these devices.
To be honest Hitachi has a long standing history of problems, as well as other
brands, Bosch, Ford, Delco. On the other hand ND alternators do not have any
significant history of problems. ND's are in many makes and models but primarily
in Honda, Acura, Lexus and Toyota. Hitachi is mostly in Nissan. Mitsubishi
are of course in cars of the same name and other makes like Mazda and Nissan.
It is up to the individual to research the alternator for proper installation
and operation. Some folks feel that we are too stupid to make our own decisions
and choices.
My advice has been research the alternator you use, regardless of brand (stay away
from Hitachi) and install and operate it as intended in the original application,
whether from a car or folk lift. If Van or Burt Rutan designed airframes
like some design electrical systems they would still be made of wood, fabric
and have two wings, aka bi-plane.
George
>Date: Sep 29, 2005
>From: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
>Subject: Re: ND two-lead alternator question
>
>HI George.
>Do you have any knowledge about the Nissan recall to replace over
>100000 alternators? I just wonder who provided the alternator that
>had internal shorts and cause fires.
>Regards, Paul W
---------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: strobe problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>I thought Aeroflash strobes were only for the experimental category?
They offer product for both experimental and certified. I've seen/heard of
many Cessnas with Aeroflash product. Maybe Bob would know more about this?
Rumen
do not archive
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: strobe problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Hi Werner,
2 separate PS in ea. wingtip. Changing to LED is not an option currently.
Probably will play a bit with it and will end up buying a new PS, was able
to fing one at ..spruce for ~100.
Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Werner Schneider; Date: 08:20 AM
10/11/2005 +0200)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Rumen,
what kind of Aeroflash setup do you have, PS at the wingtips or central?
However on my aeroflash units one of the capacitors gave up (what a
mess) as they are special made you have to get a reconditoned or a new
PS. As I'm running an experimental I did change the whole setup, to LED
and car strobe PS.
br
Werner
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: strobe problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Thanks for all suggestions on troubleshooting the strobe PS.
Rumen
do not archive
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
George,
Take it eeeeeasy, Buckwheat!
You are obviously an intelligent and well educated and trained pilot person.
You have strong opinions and are passionate about your love of aviation and
things electrical. That's great. So write a book or start a web site. But
get over it!
I, for one, am here because I have read Bob's book, agree with his design
philosophy and seek to improve my knowledge and abilities vis a vis wiring
my SkyRanger and soon, a Sonex. I am a physician, an engineer of things
human, with limited practical experience and knowledge of OBAM aircraft
electrical engineering. My greatest need, electrical wise, before reading
the 'Connection was to understand my aircraft's electrical system so that I
could #1 deal with it safely in failure mode, #2 fix it if something went
wrong and #3 build the dang thing!
All three of these objectives have been met beautifully by studying the
'Connection and Bob's design architecture as a springboard to my own unique
but very similar design. Additionally, I have become a person recognized at
the flight park as knowledgable in aircraft wiring! Imagine that. Last year
I could not even spell electerical engineer and now I ARE one! Recently two
of the aircraft in adjacent hangers had electrical issues, both resulting in
VR failure. I was able to properly diagnose the condition in each case and
taught them some fundamental electrical theory with its practical
applications in the airframe environment. WOW! That was neat.
Lately, I've torn down my panel to rewire my ICOM A-200 radio. It was wired
by a "dealer" and with my new found knowledge of things electrical I have
recognized the inadequecies of the installation. My flying buddies
recognized a long time before me because they complained of trashy
transmitting. Without hesitation, I tore into the project and actually
enjoyed it! I would never have even attempted such a project before the
'Connection.
That's why I am a devotee of the 'Connection. It makes sense for me, in my
airplane, at my flight park! It's not for everyone, and Bob doesn't claim it
to be. It meets the criteria set out by the designers to provide safe,
worry-free flying designed by and built by amateurs.
Most of us are here to get Bob's opinion because we respect it! We've done
our homework and we like it :o) We even sometimes help the newbies with our
knowledge either on-line or at the hanger fly-in. This is GOOD for the sport
and for aviation in general. And yes, even for general aviation.
So... Take a chill pill. Relax. Have a pickle. We'll still respect you in
the morning!
Rodney in Tennessee
Message 6
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Subject: | Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit |
breaker issues
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning Jim,
I know I am getting in on this conversation very late and may have missed
many pertinent points. I am also unable to determine the name of the original
commentator to which you were replying.
Nevertheless, I would like to comment on the portion pasted in below.
It has been my observation that the most common cause of problems with the
IO-550 engine has been having the mixture set "Not Rich Enough" at full
throttle and takeoff power.
When the commentator says the engine was run at full rich to keep it cool,
how rich is he talking about? That engine should flow at least twenty-eight
GPH on a 'sea level conditions' takeoff. Personally. I like to see them set
at twenty-nine to thirty GPH under those conditions. I have seen many brand
new engines that were flowing as low as twenty-four GPH.
That is dangerously low.
It is a lot easier for a pilot to lean the engine a bit if maximum power is
needed than it is to richen it a bit if the engine is running too lean.
It takes the Braly, Deakin, Atkinson team three days to explain all this
adequately at their seminars so I won't try to do so in a paragraph or two, but
I agree totally that temperature is a function of mixture and that
temperatures can be raised or lowered by either richening or leaning the mixture.
It All Depends on what is trying to be accomplished. The fastest way to
reduce cylinder head temperatures that are rapidly going out of sight to the
high side is to rapidly lean the engine well to the lean side of peak EGT!
The major point is that our aircraft engines are designed to operate at very
rich mixtures during the takeoff regime. If they are not rich enough, bad
things, including, but not limited to, detonation, can occur.
Merely pushing the mixture control to the full rich position will NOT assure
that the mixture is as rich as it should be.
And, as you stated, trying to control the oil temperature with mixture is a
very roundabout way of doing so.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 10/11/2005 1:07:33 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jlbaker@telepath.com writes:
This is a key piece of info....have the data been saved? Mr. Braley
might be interested in seeing these.......????
> He was running it full rich to try to keep the oil temps down. If he
> had leaned it the oil temp would have been much higher.
And I'll bet he didn't even try to lean it. Intuition says lean is hotter,
and that may be true up to a certain fuel/air ratio, but then things get
a lot cooler...fast!...when leaned. Figure 8-9 in Taylor's The Internal
Combustion Engine in Theory And Practice, Vol 1, Thermodynamics,
says a lot about gas temperatures.....
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with
capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the
numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10.
They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rd2@evenlink.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Hi all,
What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in a
cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb
works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power
supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s?
Rumen
_
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
This is not true...Any capacitor with the same number (0.5microfarad at
450 V I think) will work for a couple of years before you replace it
again...Much better than the $50 rebuilidng fee!
Needless to say my new project will NOT be running Aeroflash!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
--> <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Rumen,
what kind of Aeroflash setup do you have, PS at the wingtips or central?
However on my aeroflash units one of the capacitors gave up (what a
mess) as they are special made you have to get a reconditoned or a new
PS. As I'm running an experimental I did change the whole setup, to LED
and car strobe PS.
br
Werner
rd2@evenlink.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi all,
>
>What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in
a
>cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb
works
>ok when connected to another power supply; the original power supply
gives
>a humming noise. Capacitor/s?
>
>Rumen
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Alternator blast tubes. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
Good question Dean,
Also what about other blast tubes . . . mags, etc.
Regards,
Bob Christensen
RV-8 Builder - SE Iowa
On 10/10/05, DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <
> dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
> Bob:
>
> Given your comments below, does that mean I don't NEED to install a blast
> tube to my alternator? I'm currently finishing my engine baffling
> installation and have to locate some blast tube flanges to rivet on to the
> baffling if required. If not then I won't have to find a flange and go to
> the trouble(and won't have a large air leak out of the baffles either).
> I'm
> planning on installing the B&C 60 amp alternator. Please advise.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> South Florida
>
>
> --------------Original
> message----------------------------------------------
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> Experiment".
>
> I'm continually amazed at the numbers of threads over the years
> where builders are advised to take fans off 'cause they
> "run the wrong way". Or, "add blast tubes to avoid overheating",
> or any number of other remedies to mitigate an alternator
> failure . . . Yet not a single discussion talked about studies
> to measure operating temperatures or any suggestion that they be done.
>
> Alternator failures on OBAM aircraft are probably more rare...
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: strobe problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Frank
the problem with the aeroflash is, they are custom made for them, we've
found a close one, lasted for 10 hrs only, so no luck
Werner
do not archive
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with
>capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the
>numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10.
>
>They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite!
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>rd2@evenlink.com
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi all,
>
>What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in a
>cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb
>works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power
>supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s?
>
>Rumen
>
>
>_
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Alternator blast tubes. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:04 AM 10/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
><dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
>Bob:
>
>Given your comments below, does that mean I don't NEED to install a blast
>tube to my alternator? I'm currently finishing my engine baffling
>installation and have to locate some blast tube flanges to rivet on to the
>baffling if required. If not then I won't have to find a flange and go to
>the trouble(and won't have a large air leak out of the baffles either). I'm
>planning on installing the B&C 60 amp alternator. Please advise.
Can't do that with any foundations in simple-ideas. We can draw broad
assumptions from the general success in OBAM aircraft installations
(the vast majority of which are never instrumented) and that of
certified aviation where all installations were instrumented. Alternator
failures for reasons obviously related to cooling are rare.
The apparent success might be attributable in part to the fact
that few alternators are EVER subjected to extended hot day Vx
cooling conditions under full load.
What this means is that you really have a 60A or 40A machine
under MOST but not all conditions. The FAA makes us explore all
four corners of the envelope. The OBAM aircraft community has
(to my knowledge) never explored any corners of the alternators
performance/cooling envelope. Nonetheless, failures are rare
so odds are decidedly in your favor to install your alternator
just like everyone else has and don't worry about it.
I hesitate to even offer this discussion because it deals with
things very low on the list of concerns for system performance
and reliability. The last thing I want to do is inject
new worries into anyone's project planning. This is intended
to be a simple recitation of observations and facts, not a great
call-to-arms 'cause lots of ugly guys in black hats are lurking
around the corner salivating over the prospect of trashing
your new alternator.
The short answer is "no", a blast tube on your alternator
installation will have a low probability of adding value to
your system if it's operated like 99.9% of all the other
OBAM aircraft without blast tubes.
Now, that's based on MY current suite of data points. If
Van's or some other source recommends cooling, you'll have
to ask them. "Is this based on real data or is it a
hedge against having to go measure something."
Bob . . .
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Oh yes also I found that I had a problem with another component
once...Can't rmember what it was but it was humming and vibrating and
replacing the cap did not cure the problem.
I basically poked around the board and eventually it sparked right
up...Turns out I had a dry joint in the board.
Re did the soldered joint and it worked fine.
I have replaced each capacitor at least twice in 6 years. The caps I
have been replacing with are not probably rated for strobe use but for
$10 who cares?...:)
About the hardest part in replacing a cap is drilling out the pop
rivets..:)
Frank
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi all,
>
>What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in
a
>cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb
works
>ok when connected to another power supply; the original power supply
gives
>a humming noise. Capacitor/s?
>
>Rumen
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: strobe problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Many capacitors tend to have short lives in this kind of service. I've
never had much success finding replacement strobe capacitors. Even so
called "low ESR" (equivalent series resistance) capacitors seem to run
warm but they'd be my choice if I couldn't find the proper ones..
Ken
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with
>capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the
>numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10.
>
>They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite!
>
>Frank
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit |
breaker issues
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> It has been my observation that the most common cause of
problems with
> the IO-550 engine has been having the mixture set "Not Rich
Enough"
> at full throttle and takeoff power.
An excellent point. And perhaps an admonishment to not entirely
trust the "fuel flow" meter on the panel (unless calibrated). One of
the Deakin articles on AvWeb makes just this point.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne" <webfootboat@comcast.net>
HEAR HEAR
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rodney Dunham
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: George
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham"
<rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
George,
Take it eeeeeasy, Buckwheat!
You are obviously an intelligent and well educated and trained pilot
person.
You have strong opinions and are passionate about your love of aviation
and
things electrical. That's great. So write a book or start a web site.
But
get over it!
I, for one, am here because I have read Bob's book, agree with his
design
philosophy and seek to improve my knowledge and abilities vis a vis
wiring
my SkyRanger and soon, a Sonex. I am a physician, an engineer of things
human, with limited practical experience and knowledge of OBAM aircraft
electrical engineering. My greatest need, electrical wise, before
reading
the 'Connection was to understand my aircraft's electrical system so
that I
could #1 deal with it safely in failure mode, #2 fix it if something
went
wrong and #3 build the dang thing!
All three of these objectives have been met beautifully by studying the
'Connection and Bob's design architecture as a springboard to my own
unique
but very similar design. Additionally, I have become a person recognized
at
the flight park as knowledgable in aircraft wiring! Imagine that. Last
year
I could not even spell electerical engineer and now I ARE one! Recently
two
of the aircraft in adjacent hangers had electrical issues, both
resulting in
VR failure. I was able to properly diagnose the condition in each case
and
taught them some fundamental electrical theory with its practical
applications in the airframe environment. WOW! That was neat.
Lately, I've torn down my panel to rewire my ICOM A-200 radio. It was
wired
by a "dealer" and with my new found knowledge of things electrical I
have
recognized the inadequecies of the installation. My flying buddies
recognized a long time before me because they complained of trashy
transmitting. Without hesitation, I tore into the project and actually
enjoyed it! I would never have even attempted such a project before the
'Connection.
That's why I am a devotee of the 'Connection. It makes sense for me, in
my
airplane, at my flight park! It's not for everyone, and Bob doesn't
claim it
to be. It meets the criteria set out by the designers to provide safe,
worry-free flying designed by and built by amateurs.
Most of us are here to get Bob's opinion because we respect it! We've
done
our homework and we like it :o) We even sometimes help the newbies with
our
knowledge either on-line or at the hanger fly-in. This is GOOD for the
sport
and for aviation in general. And yes, even for general aviation.
So... Take a chill pill. Relax. Have a pickle. We'll still respect you
in
the morning!
Rodney in Tennessee
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmm..I get a hundred to 200 hours out of the ones from my mail order
catalogue...I'll look up the number when I have a minute.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
--> <glastar@gmx.net>
Frank
the problem with the aeroflash is, they are custom made for them, we've
found a close one, lasted for 10 hrs only, so no luck
Werner
do not archive
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
>--> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with
>capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the
>numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10.
>
>They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite!
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>rd2@evenlink.com
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi all,
>
>What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in
>a cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb
>works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power
>supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s?
>
>Rumen
>
>
>_
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Hear, hear, hear!
-Stormy
another "human engineer" well-served by the 'Connection & list.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne <webfootboat@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: George
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne" <webfootboat@comcast.net>
HEAR HEAR
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rodney Dunham
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: George
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham"
<rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
George,
Take it eeeeeasy, Buckwheat!
You are obviously an intelligent and well educated and trained pilot
person.
You have strong opinions and are passionate about your love of aviation
and
things electrical. That's great. So write a book or start a web site.
But
get over it!
I, for one, am here because I have read Bob's book, agree with his
design
philosophy and seek to improve my knowledge and abilities vis a vis
wiring
my SkyRanger and soon, a Sonex. I am a physician, an engineer of things
human, with limited practical experience and knowledge of OBAM aircraft
electrical engineering. << Snip do not archive
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit |
br...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 10/11/2005 10:42:00 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jlbaker@telepath.com writes:
And perhaps an admonishment to not entirely
trust the "fuel flow" meter on the panel (unless calibrated). One of
the Deakin articles on AvWeb makes just this point.
Good Morning Jim,
Very good point. The Continental Fuel Injection Manual calls for the fuel
pressure/flow gauge to be calibrated using a device called a FloRator (sp?).
I have never seen one in even the best equipped shops. Almost everyone these
days is either relying on the installer to have set up the fuel controller
and fuel pump correctly or they use an electronic fuel flow unit. The problem
there is that even the manufacturers of those units tell the installer to
calibrate the unit before it is to be relied upon. Lot's of potential for a
very inaccurate fuel flow reading.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Message 19
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Subject: | Controlling IR ND Alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
<<...........skip.........If you need to remove power to the alternator IGN
while
the BAT/ALT switch is ON, pull the Alt CB in the
panel......skip......George>>
10/11/2005
Hello George, I don't understand the above statement.
Are you saying that if I want to stop the electrical output from any IR ND
alternator configured with an IGN wire that I can remove the voltage /
current that may exist on the IGN wire after the alternator is operating by
opening a panel mounted CB and the alternator electrical output will cease?
If this is not what you are saying could you please clarify?
<<.....skip.......Golden RULES of IR alternator use:....skip......Use a
B-lead CB in the panel that can be pulled, forget the non-standard auto
Busman fuse concept**......skip......>>
But if the alternator electrical output can normally be shut down by opening
the IGN wire CB why would you need a second much larger CB (capable of
handling the current in the B lead) in the instrument panel in order to stop
alternator electrical output at that large CB?
Are you advocating having the second large CB installed just in case some
abnormal alternator operating condition develops? Can you please explain?
Thanks, OC
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Audio Wire Shielded? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 03:11 PM 10/10/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>Hello Bob & List,
>
>I'm installing a Flightcom 403 Intercom with a King KT-76A & Garmin GNC 250
>XL GPS/Comm in a basic VFR Panel. A few questions:
>
>1 - The wires from the PTT switches will be perpendicular to 'fat' wires
>with about 3 inches of separation. Will the use of shielded wire here
>produce a noticeable difference? I strongly suspect unshielded is the best
>choice, but would rather get an experienced opinion.
PTT wires are not potential victims. Further, if you run your
PTT wires as a twisted pair such that the control and ground wires
run all the way from the switch to the intercom or radio, then
they are invulnerable to magnetically coupled interference under
even the worst of conditions.
>2 - The wires from the mic & phone jacks must run in a bundle of fat wires
>for 6ft or run parallel to but about 6 inches away from the transponder
>antenna line for about a couple feet of length. Which is the lesser evil?
>Would it be idiotic to install an unshielded wire in either case?
Shielding is of close to zero value in the aircraft environs. Magnetic
and ground loops account for 99.9% of all interference coupling.
Twisted conductors that carry both signals and grounds for the
remote control or jack will provide all the isolation you need for
perfectly satisfactory operation.
My diagrams use shielded wire for these functions because I used
the shield itself as one of the conductors (usually ground return)
which emulates the benefits of twisting . . . and not because the
shielding is being depended upon to act as an electrostatic shield.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Solid State contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:37 PM 10/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Angier M. Ames" <N2811A@comcast.net>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>My Lancair 360 has the usual master and starter contactors as well as
>two more contactors for the gear system. Do you know of any solid
>state devices which could replace these contactors?
The short answer is "no" . . . I've participated in some
solid state contactor designs that have proven to have great
return on investment but they're about $3000 each and not
suited for use as a battery contactor (you need two-way current
flow).
Can you share your design goals for this substitution? Lower
cost of ownership, lighter, more efficient, longer service life,
etc. ????
Have the contactors on your airplane proven troublesome? Contactors
used in personally owned and operated aircraft then to have VERY
low usage numbers . . . so low in fact that many components in
our airplanes die of old age and long term environmental effects
as opposed to wear out to end of service life. My reason for asking
is to make sure that you're not paying for perceived reliability
or service life that's not a good return on investment.
If you could expand on your concerns and/or design goals, perhaps
we can offer more useful suggestions.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Mine (aeroflsh), if trusting the logs, lasted apparently ~20 years and over
2000 hours; I had to replace one last year; this year is the other wing's
turn. Could this be true - over 20 yrs and over tach 2000 hrs. ? Seems
long. Any experiences?
Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis); Date:
09:04 AM 10/11/2005 -0700)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmm..I get a hundred to 200 hours out of the ones from my mail order
catalogue...I'll look up the number when I have a minute.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
--> <glastar@gmx.net>
Frank
the problem with the aeroflash is, they are custom made for them, we've
found a close one, lasted for 10 hrs only, so no luck
Werner
do not archive
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
>--> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>I forget what mke mine were but I had (have) continual problems with
>capacitors failing in the power supplies...Simply open it up, get the
>numbers and replace...A big (450V) capacitor should cost around $10.
>
>They tend to leak over time...be careful around capacitors they bite!
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>rd2@evenlink.com
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe problem
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>Hi all,
>
>What is the most likely failing part of a wingtip strobe (aeroflash in
>a cessna, over 20 yrs.) and what is the best way of checking? The bulb
>works ok when connected to another power supply; the original power
>supply gives a humming noise. Capacitor/s?
>
>Rumen
>
>
>_
>
>
>
>
--
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
I have a question for folks on the list.
I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on
the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three
positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down
positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control
of
the flaps to a switch on the stick.
My question is - what switch would I use for the panel to accomplish the
desired results?
Stan Sutterfield
www.rv-8a.net
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
Hi Stan,
It sound to me like you want a SPDT (on) off (on) switch on the panel
(like the S700-1-7), and the same on the stick, or two PB switches set
up to emulate that function. Connect them in parallel, and whichever
switch you use will control the flaps. Just don't ever use one switch
one way, and the other switch the other way at the same time.
Bob W.
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:04:26 EDT
Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
> I have a question for folks on the list.
> I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on
> the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three
> positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down
> positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control
of
> the flaps to a switch on the stick.
> My question is - what switch would I use for the panel to accomplish the
> desired results?
> Stan Sutterfield
> www.rv-8a.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (real soon)
Prewired EC2 Cables - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
Hi Stan.
I'm wondering why you want to disable the switch on the stick? Mine are
both active all the time. Am I missing something? Earl
>I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on
>the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three
>positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down
>positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control
of
>the flaps to a switch on the stick.
>
>
>
Message 26
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi Stan :
I just installed my flap switch (steinair.com P/N SA-806) and it works just great.
In the neutral position you would have complete control of the flaps with
your stick switch and relay.
I don't see why you need a special flap switch unless you plan to operate both
switches at the same time where you could see some sparks. A few carefully placed
diodes might eliminate the sparking scenario.
Good Luck,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
601XL / Corvair
Working on Wiring and FWF
Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
I have a question for folks on the list.
I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on
the stick.
---------------------------------
Message 27
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Stan -
A regular old (ON)-OFF-(ON) toggle switch wired in parallel with your
stick will work. The amount of money you want to spend is up to you.
On Allied's site (www.alliedelec.com) I found switches from Carling and
Honeywell. On the 'cheap', a Carling switch like 6FC5H-73 will run you
$8. This is the brand B&C shipped me when I ordered toggles from them.
If you prefer to spend more money, how about a 2TL1-70 for $34?
D
----------------
Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
> I have a question for folks on the list.
> I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on
> the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three
> positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down
> positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct control
of
> the flaps to a switch on the stick.
> My question is - what switch would I use for the panel to accomplish the
> desired results?
> Stan Sutterfield
> www.rv-8a.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com>
I'm looking for some top quality butt splices. The kind where I can see the
wire inside the splice and it crimps both the wre and the tefzel covering.
Anyone have a good source?
Bob R
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Butt Splices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Hi Bob,
B & C has butt splices like you describe. http://www.bandcspecialty.com/
Richard Dudley
-6A flying
bob rundle wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com>
>
>I'm looking for some top quality butt splices. The kind where I can see the
>wire inside the splice and it crimps both the wre and the tefzel covering.
>Anyone have a good source?
>
>Bob R
>
>http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Tvedte" <JohnT@comp-sol.com>
I am wondering if someone can point me to a source for a TED 9-30-15
right angle RF connector?
It is used on my Apollo SL-70 transponder.
Thanks,
John
Message 31
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Subject: | FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and
they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
output to an A/D for computer input.
Thanks!
David M.
Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Hi David
On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the
pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS
injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest
and most accurate way that I've thought of...
Ken
AI Nut wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and
>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
>
>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
>output to an A/D for computer input.
>
>Thanks!
>David M.
>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
>
>
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I have been flying for 4 years with an analogy EFI fuel monitoring system
that does just that. I keep track of the injector-On time which together
with the known/calibrated flow rate of the injectors gives me both Flow Rate
and Total Fuel used. No transducers, No connection to the fuel plumbing at
all. On a single wire to one of the injectors. Of course, it only works for
electronic fuel injection.
I calculated the amount of injector time it took to pass 1,000,000th of a
gallon. I then build a pulse generator the period of which was equal to
1/1000,000 of a gallon. Then I gated that pulse generator with the injector
pulse width. I then counted the pulses, when I had counted 1,000,000 pulses
then I knew a gallon had passed through the injectors. So kept track of the
pulses - it was simple in concept but had a horrid parts count and no
flexibility. It was less than 0.3% inaccurate (3/10ths of 1 %) of total
tank. In fact, the gas pump meter had more error.
I am just finishing a digital version of the same which gives a great deal
more flexibility and more fuel parameters like setting alarms and warnings.
It works on the bench and I just need to install it in aircraft, hopefully
this month and test it in the Real World.
I use a PIC18F452 microprocessor in the digital version, it has a module
(CCP) that is designed to measure electronic pulse widths.. I have been
using a character LCD to display the fuel factors, but am now working on a
Graphic LCD so I can display the fuel MAP in the computer. That way I can
easier tell where there may be holes or peaks in the fuel distribution.
Great little chip once you learn it, but of course, plenty of other chips
can do the job.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered.
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
> Hi David
> On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the
> pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS
> injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest
> and most accurate way that I've thought of...
> Ken
>
> AI Nut wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and
>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
>>
>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
>>output to an A/D for computer input.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>David M.
>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 34
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|
Subject: | Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
I'm about to build the PMBCT as per the 'Connection, page 2-9.
I have purchased the following from Radio Shack;
1) Resistors... 470kOhm 1/2 watt, 5% tolerance (p/n 271-1133)
2) Zener Diode... INT4742A 12 Volt (p/n 276-0563)
3) DPDT Relay... 12VDC coil, 10A 112VAC contact voltage (p/n 275-0218)
4) Transistor... 2N3904 NPN silicon (p/n 276-2016)
Will these parts do??? I don't want to smoke anything. I've never built a
project box before. Looks like fun. Guess if I can wire an airplane, I can
wire a project box :o)
Rodney in Tennessee
Message 35
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|
Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating
injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of
the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or
all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual
fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the
injectors are becoming clogged. Etc.
David M.
Ken wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>Hi David
>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the
>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS
>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest
>and most accurate way that I've thought of...
>Ken
>
>AI Nut wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and
>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
>>
>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
>>output to an A/D for computer input.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>David M.
>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
My experience (300 hours) of flying with Electronic Fuel Injectors,
mostly with 100LL, have resulted in no problem with plugged injectors. It
may be because when operating our engines are generally outputting
considerably more continuos power than the average auto in traffic. This
of course results in the injectors being ON more frequently (rpm higher) and
for longer duration (higher Manifold pressure). I also think that our
engine probably run a bit cooler than those in auto stuck in traffic running
an A/C. Its my opinion, that the combination of 100LL, higher power
settings and probably cooler operating conditions may result in less
tendency for the injectors to plug or clog.
In any event, any system should have a calibration means to adjust for
difference in injector flow from planned, wear or other causes of flow rate
change over time, etc. One good method is as you say - compare what you
system says you burned vs what the tank says you burned. Take off and land
one the same tank. Stabilize your engine rpm/fuel burn (I like 8 gph) and
the switch to your second tank and fly for X amount of time (I like to use
an hour), switch back to your take off tank and land. Fill up your
"calibration" tank as accurately as you can and compare that to your system
generated data. Then calculate what correction factor your need to adjust
your system to "reality".
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
> I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating
> injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of
> the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or
> all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual
> fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the
> injectors are becoming clogged. Etc.
>
> David M.
>
>
> Ken wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>>
>>Hi David
>>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the
>>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS
>>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest
>>and most accurate way that I've thought of...
>>Ken
>>
>>AI Nut wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>>
>>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
>>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
>>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and
>>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
>>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
>>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
>>>
>>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
>>>output to an A/D for computer input.
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>David M.
>>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 37
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|
Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
The simplest fuel flow system based on electronic injector open duration
costs about $12-$30.00 to make (depending on what's in your electronic junk
box). It's based on the concept of pulse duty cycle. It basically
integrates the pulse train and drives a 3 digit meter. The one I built was
designed to work up to a flow rate of 20 GPH. It has a diode, inverter,
couple of capacitors and resistors, including a pot for calibration and the
3 digit meter. It takes a few flights to get it calibrated, but it is
surprisingly accurate as a fuel flow meter. I used it for the first year,
but decided I also wanted a fuel totalizer and that resulted in a
conceptually simple but somewhat implementation complex analogy design.
So now I am doing the digital version of the analogy system.
If you are interested in the simple system Fuel Flow meter, send me an e
mail and I'll send you the schematic.
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
> I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating
> injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of
> the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or
> all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual
> fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the
> injectors are becoming clogged. Etc.
>
> David M.
>
>
> Ken wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>>
>>Hi David
>>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the
>>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS
>>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest
>>and most accurate way that I've thought of...
>>Ken
>>
>>AI Nut wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>>
>>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
>>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
>>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and
>>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
>>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
>>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
>>>
>>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
>>>output to an A/D for computer input.
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>David M.
>>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Thank you kindly for the offer of schematic. The DIY engine controller
will handle injector on/off times so can communicate directly with the
computer that does fuel calculation. Alternatively, with a bit of extra
RAM, the ECU can also handle the fuel calcs and just pass off the totals
to the main computer. That's my plan, anyway 8-).
David M.
Ed Anderson wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>The simplest fuel flow system based on electronic injector open duration
>costs about $12-$30.00 to make (depending on what's in your electronic junk
>box). It's based on the concept of pulse duty cycle. It basically
>integrates the pulse train and drives a 3 digit meter. The one I built was
>designed to work up to a flow rate of 20 GPH. It has a diode, inverter,
>couple of capacitors and resistors, including a pot for calibration and the
>3 digit meter. It takes a few flights to get it calibrated, but it is
>surprisingly accurate as a fuel flow meter. I used it for the first year,
>but decided I also wanted a fuel totalizer and that resulted in a
>conceptually simple but somewhat implementation complex analogy design.
>
>So now I am doing the digital version of the analogy system.
>
>If you are interested in the simple system Fuel Flow meter, send me an e
>mail and I'll send you the schematic.
>
>Ed Anderson
>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating
>>injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of
>>the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or
>>all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual
>>fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the
>>injectors are becoming clogged. Etc.
>>
>>David M.
>>
>>
>>Ken wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>>>
>>>Hi David
>>>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the
>>>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS
>>>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest
>>>and most accurate way that I've thought of...
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>AI Nut wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>>>
>>>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
>>>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
>>>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was) and
>>>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
>>>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
>>>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
>>>>
>>>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
>>>>output to an A/D for computer input.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>David M.
>>>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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