Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:14 AM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ed Anderson)
2. 06:02 AM - Re: Flap Switch (marknlisa@hometel.com)
3. 06:37 AM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ken)
4. 06:59 AM - Re: Flap Switch (Dan Checkoway)
5. 07:08 AM - Re: Flap Switch (Bob White)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: Solid State contactors (Angier M. Ames)
7. 07:45 AM - Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit (Glen Matejcek)
8. 08:14 AM - Controlling IR ND Alternators (Glen Matejcek)
9. 08:25 AM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (AI Nut)
10. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Flap Switch (Dave Morris \)
11. 09:11 AM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Chuck Jensen)
12. 10:23 AM - Starter problems (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
13. 10:37 AM - Re: Controlling IR ND Alternators ()
14. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Flap Switch (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
15. 12:03 PM - Re: FI engine fuel flow (Ken)
16. 01:39 PM - Re: Starter problems (N1deltawhiskey@aol.com)
17. 01:40 PM - Re: Starter problems (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
18. 01:50 PM - Re: Starter problems (N1deltawhiskey@aol.com)
19. 02:13 PM - Re: Starter problems (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 03:15 PM - Re: Starter problems (Denis Walsh)
21. 04:06 PM - Re: Starter problems (Jim Jewell)
22. 04:37 PM - Re: Flap Switch (Speedy11@aol.com)
23. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Flap Switch (Earl_Schroeder)
24. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Solid State contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 06:53 PM - Re: Controlling IR ND Alternators ()
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Ok, David
Good luck on your project.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
> Thank you kindly for the offer of schematic. The DIY engine controller
> will handle injector on/off times so can communicate directly with the
> computer that does fuel calculation. Alternatively, with a bit of extra
> RAM, the ECU can also handle the fuel calcs and just pass off the totals
> to the main computer. That's my plan, anyway 8-).
>
> David M.
>
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
>><eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>>The simplest fuel flow system based on electronic injector open duration
>>costs about $12-$30.00 to make (depending on what's in your electronic
>>junk
>>box). It's based on the concept of pulse duty cycle. It basically
>>integrates the pulse train and drives a 3 digit meter. The one I built
>>was
>>designed to work up to a flow rate of 20 GPH. It has a diode, inverter,
>>couple of capacitors and resistors, including a pot for calibration and
>>the
>>3 digit meter. It takes a few flights to get it calibrated, but it is
>>surprisingly accurate as a fuel flow meter. I used it for the first year,
>>but decided I also wanted a fuel totalizer and that resulted in a
>>conceptually simple but somewhat implementation complex analogy design.
>>
>>So now I am doing the digital version of the analogy system.
>>
>>If you are interested in the simple system Fuel Flow meter, send me an e
>>mail and I'll send you the schematic.
>>
>>Ed Anderson
>>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>Matthews, NC
>>eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "AI Nut" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FI engine fuel flow
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>>
>>>I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating
>>>injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of
>>>the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or
>>>all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual
>>>fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the
>>>injectors are becoming clogged. Etc.
>>>
>>>David M.
>>>
>>>
>>>Ken wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>>>>
>>>>Hi David
>>>>On my list of things to do sometime is a little device to integrate the
>>>>pulses going to one of the fuel injectors and display flow. The SDS
>>>>injection computer is available with that option. That's the cheapest
>>>>and most accurate way that I've thought of...
>>>>Ken
>>>>
>>>>AI Nut wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>I would like to install some affordable fuel flow sensors in my plane.
>>>>>It's only a 3/8" line for a turbocharged 1.9L engine, so fuel
>>>>>requirements are not huge. I've talked to Flowscan (I think it was)
>>>>>and
>>>>>they say their fuel injection system is not accurate at all. I'll need
>>>>>to sensors, of course, including one for the low pressure return line.
>>>>>The feed side is usually 43 psi but can at times reach 90 psi absolute.
>>>>>
>>>>>Any ideas? Don't need a gauge since I'll be connecting the sensor
>>>>>output to an A/D for computer input.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>David M.
>>>>>Cost is ALWAYS a consideration.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: marknlisa@hometel.com
You might consider an on-off-(on) style toggle switch. The "on" in
parentheses denotes a momemtary position; you can hold the switch in that
position, but a spring moves the toggle back to the middle "off" position
when you release it.
If you install the switch with the momemtary on position down you can
lower the flaps by holding the switch until you attain the desired flap
position, then release. I've timed my flaps at 10 seconds to full down,
so 3 seconds gives me approx 1/3 flaps. I can do it without looking at
the indicator.
To raise 'em just toggle up and forget it; the limit switch will cut power
to the motor when the flaps are up.
Mark & Lisa Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
In practice I doubt whether a flow sensor would really flag the start of
an injector clog in that most of the time the discrepancy is going to be
a similar order of magnitude as caused by temperature change etc. While
this is not a concern to me, if it was I'd look at both systems. ie
compare the electronic commanded on time of the injectors to the
measured flow and flag any significant discrepancy. The easier way would
be to have an EGT for every cylinder of course. I've set up an EIS4000
to flag differences in left side vs. right side EGT on my EJ22 which has
common exhaust ports for each side of the engine.
Ken
AI Nut wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
>I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating
>injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of
>the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or
>all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual
>fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the
>injectors are becoming clogged. Etc.
>
>David M.
>
>
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Stan,
My RV-7 kit came with an (on)-off-(on) bat toggle switch just like you
describe. Pretty sure it came with the electric flap sub-kit with the
fuselage.
If your kit didn't come with one, email me your address offline and I'll
just send you mine. I didn't end up using it.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Speedy11@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flap Switch
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
> I have a question for folks on the list.
> I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch
> on
> the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three
> positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down
> positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct
> control of
> the flaps to a switch on the stick.
> My question is - what switch would I use for the panel to accomplish the
> desired results?
> Stan Sutterfield
> www.rv-8a.net
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
That could cause some problems in the installation Stan described if
you forget to center the panel switch from the up position, then try
to lower flaps using the control stick switch.
Also, take a look at figure 11-15 at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/switches.pdf If that type of
motor is in use, the switches and wiring will be different. The
control stick PB's could be done with DPST switches in that case.
Bob W.
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:03:21 -0500 (CDT)
marknlisa@hometel.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: marknlisa@hometel.com
>
> You might consider an on-off-(on) style toggle switch. The "on" in
> parentheses denotes a momemtary position; you can hold the switch in that
> position, but a spring moves the toggle back to the middle "off" position
> when you release it.
>
> If you install the switch with the momemtary on position down you can
> lower the flaps by holding the switch until you attain the desired flap
> position, then release. I've timed my flaps at 10 seconds to full down,
> so 3 seconds gives me approx 1/3 flaps. I can do it without looking at
> the indicator.
>
> To raise 'em just toggle up and forget it; the limit switch will cut power
> to the motor when the flaps are up.
>
>
> Mark & Lisa Sletten
> Legacy FG N828LM
> http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
>
>
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (real soon)
Prewired EC2 Cables - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Solid State contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Angier M. Ames" <N2811A@comcast.net>
Hi Bob,
My principal concern has to do with the considerable heat generated
in the battery master contactor...
just wondering if there was a reasonable alternative.
Angier Ames
Message 7
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Subject: | Now mixture control, was: New comic book on circuit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi All-
I just flew an A-36 that had an OEM fuel flow meter that read 12% high,
according to the Gucci after market totallizer. At cruise power, that was
about 1.5 GPH.
FWIW, and of course,
Do Not Archive!
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 8
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Subject: | Controlling IR ND Alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi guys-
I've seen a couple of posts over the last few weeks that make me think I need to
clarify a couple of points I made earlier. The info I've gathered on the 60
A alt that Van sells is that the 'I' lead is the voltage sense lead. De-powering
it should not shut down the alternator output. The 'L' lead is the signal
lead. Application of +V to this lead starts alternator output, and removing
+V from this lead shuts it down. Should the alternator fail for any reason, this
lead is taken to ground. There don't seem to be may automotive alternators
that are wired this way, but the one Van calls out is, according to my research.
Also, the odd, unused lead has various functions on various part number
alternators, but on this one it has no function at all.
Hope this helps to clarify the situation-
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
I have installed EGT and CHT sensors for each of the 4 cylinders. I
didn't know that a change in EGT could be an indication of injector
clogging. Do you have any formulae or somewhere to point me where I may
learn more, please?
Thanks,
David M.
Ken wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>In practice I doubt whether a flow sensor would really flag the start of
>an injector clog in that most of the time the discrepancy is going to be
>a similar order of magnitude as caused by temperature change etc. While
>this is not a concern to me, if it was I'd look at both systems. ie
>compare the electronic commanded on time of the injectors to the
>measured flow and flag any significant discrepancy. The easier way would
>be to have an EGT for every cylinder of course. I've set up an EIS4000
>to flag differences in left side vs. right side EGT on my EJ22 which has
>common exhaust ports for each side of the engine.
>Ken
>
>AI Nut wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>I considered that, but it will only be accurate at 100% operating
>>injector. If it becomes even partially clogged, but not to the point of
>>the plug not firing, you'll be off by increasing amounts. Or, if any or
>>all of the other injectors start getting clogged, same thing. Actual
>>fuel flow versus calculated fuel burned should indicate when/if the
>>injectors are becoming clogged. Etc.
>>
>>David M.
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Allow me to inject a quick shot of nitro into this discussion of flap switches.
Flap switches of the kind you have to hold down with your finger until they
reach a particular position are - IMHO - something from the 20's. Eric
Jones (www.PerihelionDesign.com) makes a little module (TSCMR) that is
designed for the MAC/RAC servos (but could work with heftier motors as
well, I think), that allows you to "dial in" a particular setting and
forget about it. The motor will extend the control to that position, as
indicated by a built-in or external potentiometer, and then shut off the
motor. It's the electronic equivalent of the Cessna style flap lever, and
IMHO a more modern way to reduce cockpit load. I plan to use it for my
aileron reflexor as well as for computer control of aileron servo tabs and
pitch trim.
Eric, where did you hide your TSCMR product pages? I can't find them on
your site any more.
Dave Morris
At 09:04 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
>
>That could cause some problems in the installation Stan described if
>you forget to center the panel switch from the up position, then try
>to lower flaps using the control stick switch.
>
>Also, take a look at figure 11-15 at
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/switches.pdf If that type of
>motor is in use, the switches and wiring will be different. The
>control stick PB's could be done with DPST switches in that case.
>
>Bob W.
>
>
>On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:03:21 -0500 (CDT)
>marknlisa@hometel.com wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: marknlisa@hometel.com
> >
> > You might consider an on-off-(on) style toggle switch. The "on" in
> > parentheses denotes a momemtary position; you can hold the switch in that
> > position, but a spring moves the toggle back to the middle "off" position
> > when you release it.
> >
> > If you install the switch with the momemtary on position down you can
> > lower the flaps by holding the switch until you attain the desired flap
> > position, then release. I've timed my flaps at 10 seconds to full down,
> > so 3 seconds gives me approx 1/3 flaps. I can do it without looking at
> > the indicator.
> >
> > To raise 'em just toggle up and forget it; the limit switch will cut power
> > to the motor when the flaps are up.
> >
> >
> > Mark & Lisa Sletten
> > Legacy FG N828LM
> > http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
> >
> >
>
>--
>http://www.bob-white.com
>N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (real soon)
>Prewired EC2 Cables - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
>
>
Message 11
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|
Subject: | FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
David M. wrote.....
I have installed EGT and CHT sensors for each of the 4 cylinders. I
didn't know that a change in EGT could be an indication of injector
clogging. Do you have any formulae or somewhere to point me where I may
learn more, please?
David, the only sensors required to detect the partially clogged
injector, is eyes and ears (perhaps our butt, if that's considered a
sensor). If one of your injectors becomes fouled/partially plugged, it
is effectively restricting fuel flow to that cylinder so it will lean
out much earlier than the other cylinders as shown by the EIS (eyes) and
is likely to be evidenced by start of rough running when the cylinder
goes +50F lean of peak (ears/butt).
The EIS system is most useful if you do a few benchmark recording of
values at a few set points for fuel flow, rpm, mp, CHT, EGT during a
standard lean test (see Air Flow Performance or GAMI websites). If one
of your injectors is fouled, that cylinder will reach peak EGT at a
higher fuel flow rate than the other cylinders. Ideally, with balanced
injectors, all cylinders will peak within 0.2-0.3 gph and then you can
run lean of peak (LOP) without roughness. So, no formulae, just
observation---but it helps if you do the benchmarking so you know what
is normal/abnormal during your observations.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
Message 12
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Subject: | Starter problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Hi Folks,
The (Skytech) starter on my RV6a/O-360 just went south, and rather than
spend $355 for a new one, I'd like to attempt a diagnosis and possibly repair
the
stupid thing... It has a whopping 377 hrs on it. To begin with, I suspect
the solenoid. One of the terminals is slightly loose but this thing is sealed
and crimped together so don't see a way to rip it apart and check the contacts.
In days of yore, solenoids had a copper ring that slammed into these
contacts and were frequently the source of troubles BUT you could buy replacement
parts. Anyway, I know there is a simple way to electrically determine the
resistance between the two solenoid terms and I have a multimeter that I hardly
know how to use, so could use some expertise from this list. Aside from that,
does anyone know of a source for new, used, rebuilt solenoids or starters.
Thanks to all, and I second the "Hear, Hear, Hear."....
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Controlling IR ND Alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
10/12/2005
Hello George, Thanks for your clarifying follow up email copied below.
Please confirm that I understand the recommended wiring arrangement:
1) One would initially apply electrical power from the aircraft's battery to
the alternator's IR through a circuit breaker protected L lead by turning on
a switch in the instrument panel. This same switch would also close the
contacts on a battery relay thereby applying battery electrical power to the
aircraft systems. (Having two separate switches for these two purposes is an
option).
2)The alternator would begin providing electrical power after engine start
when rotated at appropriate RPM.
3) One could stop the alternator from supplying electrical power while it is
rotating by either opening the L lead switch or the L lead CB.
4) The internal voltage regulator in the alternator controls the output of
the alternator by means of voltage sensed by the I lead which is connected
to some electrical bus in the aircraft.
5) If one desires to have a warning light that would indicate alternator
failure (low voltage) one should connect one terminal of the light to an
aircraft bus fed by the battery and the other terminal of the light to the V
lead. If the alternator fails the IR will take the V lead to ground thereby
illuminating the light.
6) If one desires an additional means of stopping the alternator from
providing electricity to the aircraft system one should put a large CB in
the B lead out put of the alternator.
7) Damaging overvoltage output of the alternator should be prevented by the
alternator's IR.
Can you please confirm or correct the above? Thank you.
OC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Subject: Controlling IR ND Alternators
> Hi guys-
>
> I've seen a couple of posts over the last few weeks that make me think I
> need to clarify a couple of points I made earlier. The info I've gathered
> on the 60 A alt that Van sells is that the 'I' lead is the voltage sense
> lead. De-powering it should not shut down the alternator output. The 'L'
> lead is the signal lead. Application of +V to this lead starts alternator
> output, and removing +V from this lead shuts it down. Should the
> alternator fail for any reason, this lead is taken to ground. There don't
> seem to be may automotive alternators that are wired this way, but the one
> Van calls out is, according to my research. Also, the odd, unused lead
> has various functions on various part number alternators, but on this one
> it has no function at all.
>
> Hope this helps to clarify the situation-
>
>
> Glen Matejcek
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
There are a couple other vendors that offer this functionality including:
Vans <http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1129142832-494-216&browseairframe&productfps>
Aircraft Extras <http://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-Plus.htm> which is the one I intend to use
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 wing assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Morris "BigD"
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Flap Switch
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
--> <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Allow me to inject a quick shot of nitro into this discussion of flap switches.
Flap switches of the kind you have to hold down with your finger until they reach a particular position are - IMHO - something from the 20's. Eric Jones (www.PerihelionDesign.com) makes a little module (TSCMR) that is designed for the MAC/RAC servos (but could work with heftier motors as well, I think), that allows you to "dial in" a particular setting and forget about it. The motor will extend the control to that position, as indicated by a built-in or external potentiometer, and then shut off the motor. It's the electronic equivalent of the Cessna style flap lever, and IMHO a more modern way to reduce cockpit load. I plan to use it for my aileron reflexor as well as for computer control of aileron servo tabs and pitch trim.
Eric, where did you hide your TSCMR product pages? I can't find them on your site
any more.
Dave Morris
At 09:04 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
>
>That could cause some problems in the installation Stan described if
>you forget to center the panel switch from the up position, then try to
>lower flaps using the control stick switch.
>
>Also, take a look at figure 11-15 at
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/switches.pdf If that type of
>motor is in use, the switches and wiring will be different. The
>control stick PB's could be done with DPST switches in that case.
>
>Bob W.
>
>
>On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:03:21 -0500 (CDT) marknlisa@hometel.com wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: marknlisa@hometel.com
> >
> > You might consider an on-off-(on) style toggle switch. The "on" in
> > parentheses denotes a momemtary position; you can hold the switch in
> > that position, but a spring moves the toggle back to the middle
> > "off" position when you release it.
> >
> > If you install the switch with the momemtary on position down you
> > can lower the flaps by holding the switch until you attain the
> > desired flap position, then release. I've timed my flaps at 10
> > seconds to full down, so 3 seconds gives me approx 1/3 flaps. I can
> > do it without looking at the indicator.
> >
> > To raise 'em just toggle up and forget it; the limit switch will cut
> > power to the motor when the flaps are up.
> >
> >
> > Mark & Lisa Sletten
> > Legacy FG N828LM
> > http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
> >
> >
>
>--
>http://www.bob-white.com
>N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (real soon) Prewired EC2 Cables -
>http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: FI engine fuel flow |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Hi David
A google search for "Deakin Leaning" is a good start as someone
mentioned and it will chase up articles like
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182131-1.html
The simplest general idea is to see what the max spread in your EGT's is
during normal operations. Then anytime that spread (the difference
between the highest and lowest EGT) goes significantly wider, look for
the reason. Wonky fuel flow for one cylinder is near the top of the list
for suspicions if the spread stays unusually high. Lots of other bad
things like a burned valve or bad spark plug can cause it too of course
but the EGT's will definitely show up a cylinder that has fueling
problems. With an automatic warning of high temperature spread (or
increased temperature spread since it was leaned) from a computerized
engine monitor, we hope that it draws our attention to the problem
before any engine damage occurs.
Ken
Chuck Jensen wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>David M. wrote.....
>
>I have installed EGT and CHT sensors for each of the 4 cylinders. I
>didn't know that a change in EGT could be an indication of injector
>clogging. Do you have any formulae or somewhere to point me where I may
>
>learn more, please?
>
>David, the only sensors required to detect the partially clogged
>injector, is eyes and ears (perhaps our butt, if that's considered a
>sensor). If one of your injectors becomes fouled/partially plugged, it
>is effectively restricting fuel flow to that cylinder so it will lean
>out much earlier than the other cylinders as shown by the EIS (eyes) and
>is likely to be evidenced by start of rough running when the cylinder
>goes +50F lean of peak (ears/butt).
>
>The EIS system is most useful if you do a few benchmark recording of
>values at a few set points for fuel flow, rpm, mp, CHT, EGT during a
>standard lean test (see Air Flow Performance or GAMI websites). If one
>of your injectors is fouled, that cylinder will reach peak EGT at a
>higher fuel flow rate than the other cylinders. Ideally, with balanced
>injectors, all cylinders will peak within 0.2-0.3 gph and then you can
>run lean of peak (LOP) without roughness. So, no formulae, just
>observation---but it helps if you do the benchmarking so you know what
>is normal/abnormal during your observations.
>
>Chuck
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Starter problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
Jerry,
I just had a starter repaired (automotive type for Sube) at Romaine Electric
in Seattle (not too far from Wilsonville). Turned out it was a broken spring
behind one of the brushes which they replaced for less than $7. That after I
agreed to pay $50 to have all the brushes replaced! They list Denso, Valeo,
Iskra, Transpo, Prestolite, Bosch, Hehr, Leece-Neville and CPC as some of the
brands. They are part of the Rexco group with affiliates scattered about. I
do know they have one in Portland (A.S.E.) which you can find on their list at
http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_buy/distributor_list_alpha.php?pf=true
Don't know if they would work for your Skytec starter, but you could call
them at 206-583-8600. It wouldn't surprise me if Skytec didn't use one of the
common starter suppliers. As a precautionary note, I would not mention or hint
"airplane" as I do not know how they would respond.
Doug Windhorn
In a message dated 12-Oct-05 10:25:13 Pacific Standard Time, Jerry2DT@aol.com
writes:
<<snip>>
Aside from that,
does anyone know of a source for new, used, rebuilt solenoids or starters.
Message 17
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Subject: | Starter problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Jerry
This is not very helpful but if it is the solenoid I would bet its an
automotive part that Skytech has bought...Anyone know?
I have a new Skytech starter on my new IO360 sitting in its crate in
Corvallis...No you can't have my starter but I could measure the primary
resistance to see what value it is...Have you checked yours for open
circuit?
You put the multimeter set to Ohms and put the positive lead on the
little terminal and the negative lead on the engine block...If you have
a break in the coil wiring it will read infinate resistance...I would
expect it to read say 1 ohm or so for a 12 amp draw on the solenoid.
If you want to call me we can do this real time...I will be out until
about 7:30pm this evening (going flying) so your welcome to give me a
ring after that.
Frank
541-745-6386
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jerry2DT@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Starter problems
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Hi Folks,
The (Skytech) starter on my RV6a/O-360 just went south, and rather than
spend $355 for a new one, I'd like to attempt a diagnosis and possibly
repair the stupid thing... It has a whopping 377 hrs on it. To begin
with, I suspect the solenoid. One of the terminals is slightly loose but
this thing is sealed and crimped together so don't see a way to rip it
apart and check the contacts.
In days of yore, solenoids had a copper ring that slammed into these
contacts and were frequently the source of troubles BUT you could buy
replacement parts. Anyway, I know there is a simple way to electrically
determine the resistance between the two solenoid terms and I have a
multimeter that I hardly know how to use, so could use some expertise
from this list. Aside from that, does anyone know of a source for new,
used, rebuilt solenoids or starters.
Thanks to all, and I second the "Hear, Hear, Hear."....
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Starter problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
OOPs, pick the link before thoroughly checking - this is the one for Romaine
Electric (still has a Portland affiliate).
http://www.romaineelectric.com/locations.html
Doug Windhorn
Message 19
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Subject: | Starter problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yeah tell 'em its for a 220mph tractor...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter problems
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
Jerry,
I just had a starter repaired (automotive type for Sube) at Romaine
Electric in Seattle (not too far from Wilsonville). Turned out it was a
broken spring behind one of the brushes which they replaced for less
than $7. That after I agreed to pay $50 to have all the brushes
replaced! They list Denso, Valeo, Iskra, Transpo, Prestolite, Bosch,
Hehr, Leece-Neville and CPC as some of the brands. They are part of the
Rexco group with affiliates scattered about. I do know they have one in
Portland (A.S.E.) which you can find on their list at
http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_buy/distributor_list_alpha.php?pf=true
Don't know if they would work for your Skytec starter, but you could
call them at 206-583-8600. It wouldn't surprise me if Skytec didn't use
one of the common starter suppliers. As a precautionary note, I would
not mention or hint "airplane" as I do not know how they would respond.
Doug Windhorn
In a message dated 12-Oct-05 10:25:13 Pacific Standard Time,
Jerry2DT@aol.com
writes:
<<snip>>
Aside from that,
does anyone know of a source for new, used, rebuilt solenoids or
starters.
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Starter problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
AHA
I do have some experience with sky-tec starters.
I whole heartedly recommend you call or visit their website. Sky
tec is the only recommended repair station for their starters. They
take great pride in reasonable repair and quick turn around. They
definitely know how to fix your starter.
Denis Walsh
On Oct 12, 2005, at 11:19 AM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> The (Skytech) starter on my RV6a/O-360 just went south, and rather
> than
> spend $355 for a new one, I'd like to attempt a diagnosis and
> possibly repair the
> stupid thing... It has a whopping 377 hrs on it. To begin with, I
> suspect
> the solenoid. One of the terminals is slightly loose but this thing
> is sealed
> and crimped together so don't see a way to rip it apart and check
> the contacts.
> In days of yore, solenoids had a copper ring that slammed into these
> contacts and were frequently the source of troubles BUT you could
> buy replacement
> parts. Anyway, I know there is a simple way to electrically
> determine the
> resistance between the two solenoid terms and I have a multimeter
> that I hardly
> know how to use, so could use some expertise from this list.
> Aside from that,
> does anyone know of a source for new, used, rebuilt solenoids or
> starters.
>
> Thanks to all, and I second the "Hear, Hear, Hear."....
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
>
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Starter problems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>
> Jerry,
>(snip) Don't know if they would work for your Skytec starter, but you could
>call
> them at 206-583-8600. It wouldn't surprise me if Skytec didn't use one of
> the
> common starter suppliers. As a precautionary note, I would not mention or
> hint
> "airplane" as I do not know how they would respond.
>
> Doug Windhorn
Doug and Jerry,
When in doubt about how any potential supplier might respond to being told
that this or that part will be used in an aircraft I do what I read here on
the list some time back;
I tell them it's for an RV I am building at home and let them conclude
whatever they wish from that limited information. It has always worked out
well so far.
Jim in Kelowna Yellow paint... Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
Earl,
Nope, I don't necessarily want to disable the stick switch. My thoughts were
that the normal position of the panel switch would be the centered position
which would allow control of the flaps using the stick switch. Then, if
desired or needed, the panel switch could be used instead of the stick switch to
activate the flap motor. Perhaps I'm trying to make a simple thing too
complicated. I suppose the switches could be in parallel such that either switch
could
control the motor. Odd that I needed to bring this up on the list in order
to think it through, but it is more clear now.
Thanks to all for your comments. I'm gradually learning this 'lectric stuff.
Stan Sutterfield
Hi Stan.
I'm wondering why you want to disable the switch on the stick? Mine are
both active all the time. Am I missing something? Earl
>I want to control the flaps from both a switch on the panel and a switch on
>the stick. I would like to have a flap switch on the panel that has three
>positions - momentary up-stick-momentary down. The momentary up and down
>positions are self explanatory. The middle "stick" position would direct
control
of
>the flaps to a switch on the stick.
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
Hi Stan,
I forgot to mention that both my switches are momentary in each
direction with center off. I believe this limits the chance of
activating both in the opposite direction at the same time. This might
not be the best way for those who need to turn their head considerably
to view the flap setting out the window. I can see mine from the corner
of my eye and is well within the normal scan during the approach and
landing phase. Learning 'stuff' is what makes life interesting... Earl
Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
>Earl,
>Nope, I don't necessarily want to disable the stick switch. My thoughts were
>that the normal position of the panel switch would be the centered position
>which would allow control of the flaps using the stick switch. Then, if
>desired or needed, the panel switch could be used instead of the stick switch
to
>activate the flap motor. Perhaps I'm trying to make a simple thing too
>complicated. I suppose the switches could be in parallel such that either switch
could
>control the motor. Odd that I needed to bring this up on the list in order
>to think it through, but it is more clear now.
>Thanks to all for your comments. I'm gradually learning this 'lectric stuff.
>Stan Sutterfield
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Solid State contactors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:06 AM 10/12/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Angier M. Ames" <N2811A@comcast.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>My principal concern has to do with the considerable heat generated
>in the battery master contactor...
>just wondering if there was a reasonable alternative.
How is this heat a problem? The battery contactor generally draws
about .8A after it warms up for a total power dissipation of about
12 watts. While this amount of power produces a marked temperature
rise, it's well inside ratings for the materials used in fabrication
of the contactor.
When I was selling these things, I had a couple of builders want
to return "defective" contactors because they were overheating. I
had to explain that virtually all contactors of any size (50A class
or larger) ran too hot to touch under normal conditions. This
isn't a big deal when the alternator is running . . . you generally
have the watts to spare. However, during alternator-out, battery-only
ops, this .8A would run a couple of radios! It's a good load to get
rid of. This was one of the drivers for the alternate feedpath
to the e-bus that you see in our Z-drawings.
So, if you configure the system to limit power losses due to battery
contactor heating to times when you have the power to spare, the
lowly contactor will offer you a good return on investment.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Controlling IR ND Alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
10/12/2005
Hello Glen, First off, please let me apologize for getting my "Glens" and my
"Georges" confused.
I also apologize for using the letter "V" when I meant "L" in my paragraph
5) corrected and copied below:
5) (corrected) If one desires to have a warning light that would indicate
alternator
failure (low voltage) one should connect one terminal of the light to an
aircraft bus fed by the battery and the other terminal of the light to the L
lead. If the alternator fails the IR will take the L lead to ground thereby
illuminating the light.
Your 12 Oct 5:17 PM response immediately below leaves me confused.
> Hi OC- What you show would work, but for point 5. The idiot light goes in
> the
> line from the switch to the "L" (lamp) terminal. Glen Matejcek
A) If the incandescent idiot light is in series on the wire leading from the
switch to the alternator L terminal and the filament in the bulb breaks or
burns out then no current can get to the L terminal and the alternator shuts
down and stops providing electricity. Right? Is this the desired
arrangement? If so, why?
B) On the other hand if one terminal of the idiot light is connected to some
normally hot aircraft bus and the other terminal of the idiot light is
connected to the L terminal a normally functioning light will be off as long
as the voltage at the two light terminals are equal. But the light will come
on when the L terminal is pulled to ground by the IR when the alternator
fails. Right? Isn't this the desired arrangement?
C) But what happens to the wire going from the switch to the L terminal,
which is carrying battery voltage and current, when the L terminal is pulled
to ground? Does that not create a direct short between the closed switch and
ground? Is the CB in the wire going from the switch to the L terminal there
to open in this situation?
Thanks for your help.
OC
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