AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 10/18/05


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:04 AM - Re: voltage monitoring (Rodney Dunham)
     2. 05:18 AM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.000... (BobsV35B@aol.com)
     3. 05:41 AM - Heat or noise problems (Carlos Trigo)
     4. 09:27 AM - Alternators Breakers (bob rundle)
     5. 09:42 AM - Starter Troubleshooting (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
     6. 09:53 AM - Re: Heat or noise problems (John Schroeder)
     7. 10:07 AM - Re: Alternators Breakers (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
     8. 10:28 AM - Re: Heat or noise problems (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
     9. 11:59 AM - Re: Heat or noise problems (Lynn Riggs)
    10. 01:14 PM - Re: Alternators Breakers (John Schroeder)
    11. 02:36 PM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements INNOCENT GLOBAL (Phil Birkelbach)
    12. 07:35 PM - voltage monitoring (bob noffs)
    13. 11:31 PM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements INNOCENT (Guy Buchanan)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:04:55 AM PST US
    From: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: voltage monitoring
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com> Fellow choir members, The radio in a 14V system is required by RTCA DO-160 to be able to withstand 20 volts for 1 second, 40 volts for 100 milliseconds, and 300-volts for 100 microseconds. While I will grant you that the PM alternators in our Rotax and Jabiru engines are probably not cabable of generating 300 volts, they are cabable of producing over 70 volts without a functional VR. By the time the red light has illuminated, more than 100 milliseconds is long past and by the time you even read the EIS screen to see what has set off the one eyed monster, 1 second is also long past. So your opportunity to DO something to prevent damage is also long past. That's the beauty of Bob's OV protection kit. It detects the impending OV, takes the alternator off line before it can fully develop and tells you what it's done by showing its white pullable circuit breaker collar. It's beautiful. It protects your avionics. It simplifies your panel by eliminating a switch. And most important of all, it requires no pilot intervention at all! IMHO, we cannot react quickly enough in the normal cockpit environment to do without this particular automated device. Rodney in Tennessee


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:18:42 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: VFR Lighting Requirements INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
    1.000... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/2005 1:58:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, bnn@nethere.com writes: All, Currently my day VFR Kitfox has no lights. It appears I am required to run an anti-collision light at a minimum. (FAR 91.205b11) Does this sound correct? Does anyone have a recommendation for a minimalist anti-collision light system? Thank you in advance, Good Morning Guy, I may be stepping into an area about which I know nothing, but isn't your Kit Fox an experimental airplane? The way I read the FAR quoted is that those regulations apply to Standard Category Airplanes. Is there something in the experimental regulations that requires you to comply with the provisions noted? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:41:52 AM PST US
    Received-SPF: softfail (mta9: domain of transitioning trigo@mail.telepac.pt does not designate 85.138.30.221 as permitted sender) receiver=mta9; client_ip=85.138.30.221; envelope-from=trigo@mail.telepac.pt;
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: Heat or noise problems
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> In my RV-9A with a Subaru engine, I need to put the 2 batteries behind the baggage compartment, thus having to install four 6AWG wires from the batteries to the firewall. (please no discussion abour this). Are there any heat problems if I put all the four wires paralel, in the same conduit ? And what about noise problems ? Carlos


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:27:39 AM PST US
    From: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Alternators Breakers
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com> I'm following Z-13 with single battery and dual alternator. My question is this: I have used all fuses for my panel which can be accessed easily from the right side under the panel. Why are the MAIN ALT and AUX ALT circuit breakers used in the panel instead of fuses as well? Why would I need access to them? Can they be fuses? Cheers, Bob R On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:42:48 AM PST US
    From: Jerry2DT@aol.com
    Subject: Starter Troubleshooting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Folks, In the course of researching starter problems, I came across this fine troubleshoot guide from Sky-Tec. Wish I had seen it before delving into same. I'm printing it out and inserting into wirebook of current project... _http://www.skytecair.com/images/Troubleshooting%20Diagram_5.0.pdf_ (http://www.skytecair.com/images/Troubleshooting%20Diagram_5.0.pdf) BTW, support at Sky-Tec is first class. Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:53:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Heat or noise problems
    From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net> Carlos- There may or may not be a heat problem; depending on the length, resistance of the #6 wire and the amps that they will carry. I believe you can do the calculations from a page in Bob Nuckolls' book. He also has a "comic book" about this. I have a copy of the latter, if you can't find it on his web site. I also have an Excel-based spreadsheet/calculator if you need it. If the wires will be in the same conduit, the "bundle" figures from the charts will have to be used. Cheers, John Schroeder > In my RV-9A with a Subaru engine, I need to put the 2 batteries behind > the baggage compartment, thus having to install four > 6AWG wires > from the batteries to the firewall. (please no discussion abour this). > Are there any heat problems if I put all the four > wires paralel, in > the same conduit ? > And what about noise problems ? > > Carlos


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:07:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Alternators Breakers
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> My personal conclusion was that in a dual alt setup like mine I decided fuses were just fine. I have an IR main alt and I use the Perilion OV module and contactor approach to OV situations....I also wired the field wire through the panel switch...Thus I have a double pole switch that turns both the OV and field circuit on/off. This also has a push button reset. The second alt (an SD-8) also has a dpSt switch but I take the main current from the SD-8 thru one pole and the crowbar OV thru the other as it would normally be 10 amps or less and oly turned on if the main alt get shutdown. Anyway that's my approach...All of the above thru fuses. fwiw Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob rundle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternators Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" --> <bobrundle2@hotmail.com> I'm following Z-13 with single battery and dual alternator. My question is this: I have used all fuses for my panel which can be accessed easily from the right side under the panel. Why are the MAIN ALT and AUX ALT circuit breakers used in the panel instead of fuses as well? Why would I need access to them? Can they be fuses? Cheers, Bob R On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:28:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Heat or noise problems
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> I really don't think heat will be the problem. Remember the large current flow will only be for very short durations while cranking the starter...Really not much time for it to get hot. What do you expect your instrument loads to be assuming these are coming directly from the battery. I would check the max voltage drop calcs based on these full load amps but not the intermttent starter amps. As an example I have a Zenair Zodiac with an 1800CC Soob motor and the 17AH battery behind the seats...I have a single 6Ga wire running from the batt to the firewall and use a local ground from the battery to the airframe..I.e the airframe is the battery ground path....Shock horror! The cable is bundle up with other cables and glued under the logeron with silicone. The istruments are mode C VFR with a full compliment of lights. Works just fine...But I do have an awful noise on the radio which I assume to poor grounding of the RG58 coax...I don't know if this ground ath setup is contributing to this as I haven't investigated it yet....Seems to improve if I turn a lot of lights on...Hmmm...I wonder? Good luck Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Heat or noise problems --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" --> <jschroeder@perigee.net> Carlos- There may or may not be a heat problem; depending on the length, resistance of the #6 wire and the amps that they will carry. I believe you can do the calculations from a page in Bob Nuckolls' book. He also has a "comic book" about this. I have a copy of the latter, if you can't find it on his web site. I also have an Excel-based spreadsheet/calculator if you need it. If the wires will be in the same conduit, the "bundle" figures from the charts will have to be used. Cheers, John Schroeder > In my RV-9A with a Subaru engine, I need to put the 2 batteries behind > the baggage compartment, thus having to install four > 6AWG wires > from the batteries to the firewall. (please no discussion abour this). > Are there any heat problems if I put all the four > wires paralel, in > the same conduit ? > And what about noise problems ? > > Carlos


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:59:45 AM PST US
    From: Lynn Riggs <riggs_la@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Heat or noise problems
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lynn Riggs <riggs_la@yahoo.com> Carlos, In Bob's book he recommends using 4AWG for short runs and 2AWG for longer runs. Carlos Trigo <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" In my RV-9A with a Subaru engine, I need to put the 2 batteries behind the baggage compartment, thus having to install four 6AWG wires from the batteries to the firewall. (please no discussion abour this). Are there any heat problems if I put all the four wires paralel, in the same conduit ? And what about noise problems ? Carlos Lynn A. Riggs riggs_la@yahoo.com St. Paul, MN BH #656 Kit #22 http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html ---------------------------------


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:14:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternators Breakers
    From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net> Bob R - Bob Nuckols recommends using the circuit breakers because the ov protection can have some nuisance trips. They are a whole lot easier to push in than replacing a fuse while leaning over to get to the fuse panel in your airplane and all of this while in flight. Hope this helps, John Schroeder On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:26:06 +0000, bob rundle <bobrundle2@hotmail.com> wrote: > Why are the MAIN ALT and AUX ALT circuit breakers used in the panel > instead of fuses as well? Why would I need access to > them? Can > they be fuses? --


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:36:15 PM PST US
    From: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
    Subject: Re: VFR Lighting Requirements INNOCENT GLOBAL
    0.0000 1.000... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net> The regulations say that you have to abide by your operating limitations and, if memory serves, the operating limitations will say that you have to comply with 91.205. To answer the question, I think that a single strobe on the top of the vertical stabilizer would do it. You could also install one of those ugly cessna rotating beacons but I think a simple little strobe qualifies. You have to be able to see the AC light from 360 degrees around the airplane IIRC. You could buy one of these babies... http://www.strobe.com/products.asp?id=5&view=product ...and one of these... http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1129671072-166-474&browse=lighting&product=a625light ...and you'd have it made. There are probably other solutions but this is the first that came to mind. I used a Nova power supply on mine and it works great. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB - Phase I http://www.myrv7.com BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > >In a message dated 10/18/2005 1:58:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, >bnn@nethere.com writes: > >All, >Currently my day VFR Kitfox has no lights. It appears I am >required to run an anti-collision light at a minimum. (FAR 91.205b11) Does >this sound correct? Does anyone have a recommendation for a minimalist >anti-collision light system? > >Thank you in advance, > > >Good Morning Guy, > >I may be stepping into an area about which I know nothing, but isn't your >Kit Fox an experimental airplane? > >The way I read the FAR quoted is that those regulations apply to Standard >Category Airplanes. > >Is there something in the experimental regulations that requires you to >comply with the provisions noted? > >Happy Skies, > >Old Bob >AKA >Bob Siegfried >Ancient Aviator >Stearman N3977A >Brookeridge Air Park LL22 >Downers Grove, IL 60516 >630 985-8503 > > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:35:51 PM PST US
    From: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net>
    Subject: voltage monitoring
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net> hi all, sounds like the crowar is a necessary item, even with voltage monitoring. i will include it in my plans. thanks to all who responded. bob noffs woodruff, wi


    Message 13


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    Time: 11:31:26 PM PST US
    From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> GLOBAL 0.0000 1.000...
    Subject: Re: VFR Lighting Requirements INNOCENT
    GLOBAL 0.0000 1.000... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> GLOBAL 0.0000 1.000... At 02:34 PM 10/18/2005, you wrote: >The regulations say that you have to abide by your operating limitations >and, if memory serves, the operating limitations will say that you have >to comply with 91.205. Thanks Phil, I called the San Diego FSDO today and had an interesting conversation with them. Apparently this is still an open issue, as there are a boat load of aircraft out there without electrical systems. They're going to "discuss" it and get back to me and I'll pass on what they say. On a more humorous note, I asked about the new AC 20-27 requirement that the "Passenger Warning" be in 3/8" high type. They said this was absolutely true and a result of previous notices shrinking to the point of invisibility. You can't imagine how much trouble I'm having finding room for this message in my Kitfox! (It has to be in "plain sight" for the passenger.) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.




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