---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/20/05: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:12 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 10/19/05 (Don Boeck) 2. 06:02 AM - Apollo GX65 Connectors () 3. 06:09 AM - Main and Aux Volts/Amps Indicator (bob rundle) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: Main and Aux Volts/Amps Indicator (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 07:06 AM - Re: (Mitsubishi) Controlling IR Alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: Controlling IR ND Alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:14 AM - Re: Main and Aux Volts/Amps Indicator (BobsV35B@aol.com) 8. 07:24 AM - Re: One antenna or two? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 07:30 AM - Re: One antenna or two? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:47 AM - Re: One antenna or two? (Bill Denton) 11. 08:26 AM - Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup (Mitchgarner757@aol.com) 12. 08:48 AM - Re: OBAM Min Equip Requirements (Eric M. Jones) 13. 09:05 AM - Re: emergency battery disconnect (Greg Campbell) 14. 09:17 AM - Re: VFR Lighting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 09:22 AM - Re: emergency battery disconnect (BobsV35B@aol.com) 16. 09:22 AM - Re: emergency battery disconnect (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 09:29 AM - Re: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 09:35 AM - Re: AK-350 Harness (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 10:18 AM - Re: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup (Matt Prather) 20. 11:20 AM - Re: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup (Dave Morris \) 21. 11:42 AM - Amateur Built Requirements () 22. 12:20 PM - Amateur Built Requirements () 23. 02:47 PM - Re: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 24. 07:49 PM - Battery Bus Architecture (Richard Sipp) 25. 08:18 PM - Twisted wire pairs? (Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi) 26. 08:22 PM - Re: Battery Bus Architecture (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 27. 08:24 PM - Re: Heat or noise problems (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 28. 08:26 PM - Re: First Operational GQM Target Flight (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 29. 08:33 PM - Re: Controlling IR ND Alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 30. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 31. 10:37 PM - Re: Twisted wire pairs? (rv-9a-online) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:39 AM PST US From: Don Boeck Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 10/19/05 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boeck "SEE AND AVOID" Old timer here, 22,000+ hrs, currently flying a Cessna 120, day and night. I would like to pass along my take on "see and avoid". In today's increasingly high-tech world, it appears some may be missing a subtle but important nomenclature divergence regarding "anti-collision lights": specifically between strobes and rotating beacons, often called "twirlies" by us old timers. I can personally confirm twirlies are not effective during the day with regard to "see and avoid"; they are marginally effective at night. I do not have twirlies on my Cessna 120. Strobes, on the other hand, catch my eye, often several miles away, day or night. I consider the strobes on my aircraft to be a "no-go" item - all three of them, literally. When I was flying the line, I can't tell you the number of times during climbout or descent when ATC gave us a traffic alert, the final one often "traffic 12 o'clock, 1 mile, your altitude". Scary - never saw the ones without strobes. Old Timer N7227E, Norris Lake, TN --- AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also > be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > plain ASCII version > of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2005-10-19.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2005-10-19.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > AeroElectric-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed > 10/19/05: 17 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:15 AM - emergency battery disconnect > (Christopher Stone) > 2. 06:15 AM - AK-350 Harness (Pete Howell) > 3. 06:37 AM - VFR Lighting Requirements () > 4. 07:08 AM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements > (BobsV35B@aol.com) > 5. 07:32 AM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements > (Lloyd, Daniel R.) > 6. 08:46 AM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements > (craig@craigsteffen.net) > 7. 09:00 AM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements > (Guy Buchanan) > 8. 09:00 AM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements > (Guy Buchanan) > 9. 12:13 PM - Diplexer splitter (Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)) > 10. 02:23 PM - Re: Diplexer splitter (Bob C.) > 11. 02:23 PM - Re: Diplexer splitter (Richard > Dudley) > 12. 03:35 PM - Re: VFR Lighting (Jim Baker) > 13. 03:45 PM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements > (Frank Stringham) > 14. 07:45 PM - Connectors for AT-50A (Matt & > Jo) > 15. 08:12 PM - Amateur Built Requirements () > 16. 09:26 PM - Re: VFR Lighting (Guy Buchanan) > 17. 10:17 PM - Re: VFR Lighting Requirements > (wfinnell@earthlink.net) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:15:15 AM PST US > From: Christopher Stone > Subject: AeroElectric-List: emergency battery > disconnect > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Christopher > Stone > > > I came across this device: > > http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail/DelphiConnectionSystems/Battery_Disconnect_Safety_Device/25086/1 > > In the course of other research. > > This disconnect could be triggered by an > accelerometer to force a battery disconnect > in the event of (heaven forbid) a crash. > > It could also be used to disconnect a runaway IR > alternator. Maybe in series with > the contactor as a means of positively taking the > alternator off line? > > Maybe this will spark some ideas!? > > I am in no way affiliated with Delphi. > > Chris Stone > Newberg, OR > RV-8 x2 > Electric done on no. 1 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:15:15 AM PST US > From: "Pete Howell" > Subject: AeroElectric-List: AK-350 Harness > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete > Howell" > > > Hello - I have a factory AK-350 harness that has all > the right wire > colors in it, but other than the power and ground > leads, they are not > connected to the right pins in the encoder 15 pin > connector (per the > label on the encoder). I am planning on removing > and re inserting > pins in the correct location (I wired the > Transponder pins based on > the wire colors) Is this the right approach or am I > missing > something? Has any one else found a harness like > this miswired from > the factory? > > Thnaks - Pete > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:37:47 AM PST US > From: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: VFR Lighting > Requirements > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > > 10/19/2005 > > Hello Old Bob and Guy, The subject of equipment and > instrument requirements > for amateur built experimental aircraft is a bit > confusing because it is > covered by three different sources: The FAR's, The > aircraft Operating > Limitations, and FAA policy. > > As Old Bob says, FAR Sec 91.205 does not apply to > amateur built experimental > aircraft, all of which receive special category > airworthiness certificates. > But all of those aircraft will have the following > words in their Operating > Limitations "After completion of Phase I flight > testing, unless > appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument > flight in accordance with > 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, > day only." The entire > Operating Limitations and these words are part of > the aircraft's > airworthiness certificate. > > The FAA policy is that if you operate your amateur > built aircraft VFR day > only none of FAR 91.205 applies -- I repeat, NONE. > If you operate it at VFR > at night then all of FAR 91.205 (a), (b), and (c) > applies. If you operate it > IFR day only then all of FAR 91.205 (a), (b), and > (d) === message truncated === __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:01 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Apollo GX65 Connectors --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: I have an Apollo GX65 with the tray and GPS antenna which I plan to sell. I do not have the connectors since the unit came with the Approach Systems cables. Does anyone know of an inexpensive source for the connectors? I plan to return the AS cable for credit, or would sell it with the GPS/Comm if desired. You can contact me off list at bbradburry@allvantage.com Thanks, Bill Bradburry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:14 AM PST US From: "bob rundle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Main and Aux Volts/Amps Indicator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" I have a Volts/Amps indicator mounted. I also have the B&C 60 Amp Alt and SD8 backup alt. I have followed Z-13 and everything is going well. I would however like the ability to install a switch for the volts/amps indicator to switch between MAIN and AUX alternators. During normal flight I am interested in how many amps I'm using at different times but more importantly I would like to see how many amps I would be using if the main alt fails and the I'm running on the aux SD8 alt. Bob can you direct me on how to go about wiring this switch for the single volt/amp indicator? I know this is an unusual switch to have but the type of flying my aircraft will do is over some VERY remote landscape and I NEED to be concerned about current draw during essential bus operation. I have made a plan for equipment running during backup alt operation and it will be under 8 amps (actually as small at 3.1 amps) but I would still like the ability to see just how many amps are being drawn and the resultant voltage. Thanks Bob #2 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Main and Aux Volts/Amps Indicator From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Well I have just done this on my plane... Its pretty easy (my amps are read by a Dynon EMS system). Simply get a hold of a second shunt that is identical to the one you are using right now and put it in the feed from the SD-8. Then get a DPDT switch mounted on the panel and take the sensor wires to the switch. Your Ammeter will be connected to the two center terminals and ALT#1 will be on the bottom terminals (switch UP on the panel) and ALT#2 will be on the top terminals...(Switch down to read ALT#2). Easy...Works on my setup Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob rundle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Main and Aux Volts/Amps Indicator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" --> I have a Volts/Amps indicator mounted. I also have the B&C 60 Amp Alt and SD8 backup alt. I have followed Z-13 and everything is going well. I would however like the ability to install a switch for the volts/amps indicator to switch between MAIN and AUX alternators. During normal flight I am interested in how many amps I'm using at different times but more importantly I would like to see how many amps I would be using if the main alt fails and the I'm running on the aux SD8 alt. Bob can you direct me on how to go about wiring this switch for the single volt/amp indicator? I know this is an unusual switch to have but the type of flying my aircraft will do is over some VERY remote landscape and I NEED to be concerned about current draw during essential bus operation. I have made a plan for equipment running during backup alt operation and it will be under 8 amps (actually as small at 3.1 amps) but I would still like the ability to see just how many amps are being drawn and the resultant voltage. Thanks Bob #2 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: (Mitsubishi) Controlling IR Alternators --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:25 AM 10/14/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N5SL > >Mickey and others: > >Before discovering the Aeroelectric list, I purchased a Mitsubishi 40-amp >1-wire alternator that seems well suited for my aircraft and has the same >connections as the ND. Here are two photos: > >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_14_05_Alt1.JPG >and >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_14_05_Alt2.JPG > >Since I'm new at this, do you guys have any comments on this particular unit? > >Thanks, This appears to be a 3-wire alternator. It features a pair of terminals in addition to the b-lead . . probably IGN and Warning Light wires. There IS a class of alternators that are truly one-wire. Popular with the race care and marine crowd. These alternators have only a b-lead connection and will come on line any time you spin them up. The alternator you have will function as advertised. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Controlling IR ND Alternators --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:01 AM 10/14/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >Makes me wonder exactly why he included the following statement: > >"Conditions in which a very high draw is being made of the alternator at >low RPM will cause extra >strain on the alternator and drive belt. Consider reducing the total >load in these situations, or >switching the alternator off and drawing from the battery only, if the >high load will be brief." > >At low rpm I'd expect the output to be self limiting and most Lycoming >alternators are out front and well cooled aren't they?? > >Ken The only concerns I might have for alternator "stress" at low rpm is cooling . . . this is hard to achieve on a Lycoming installation when you leave the small pulley in place. Even so, terms like "low rpm", "very high draw", "extra strain", "reducing total load", and "brief" are all non-quantified terms having no value for advancing either understanding or increasing service life of the alternator. An excellent example of how a few anecdotes can be misinterpreted or woven into new and baseless concerns. The caution cited has no foundation in physics or design limits for the alternator. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:49 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Main and Aux Volts/Amps Indicator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning Frank and Bob 2, I had a similar setup on my airplane for about ten years using one shunt for the battery circuit and one for the only alternator installed. Really liked having the information. I know that Electric Bob feels the information is worthless enroute, but I like to see where the amps are going! When I installed my B&C back up alternator, I added another shunt for it and switched from a double pole double throw snap switch to a rotary double pole triple throw switch. No doubt unneeded data, but I like it! My shunts and the rotary switch were purchased from Electronics International, (buy-ei.com) the manufacturer of the combination Volt/Ammeter (loadmeter?) I am using. They also provided a very nice wiring diagram. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 10/20/2005 8:52:30 A.M. Central Standard Time, frank.hinde@hp.com writes: Simply get a hold of a second shunt that is identical to the one you are using right now and put it in the feed from the SD-8. Then get a DPDT switch mounted on the panel and take the sensor wires to the switch. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One antenna or two? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:11 PM 10/14/2005 +0000, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" > >I have a dual comm set-up. Trying to decide whether to have 2 antennas or a >splitter (and single antenna). > >Opinions? > >Bob R There are no "splitters" suitable for sharing two comm transceivers with one antenna. Splitters are passive networks designed to take very low power (received) signals and either distribute them evenly between two receivers in the same frequency band (like a pair of vor receivers) _or_ to split energies from two different bands to their respective receivers (like VOR and Glideslope) with the lowest practical loss. Devices to make comm transceivers share an antenna are diplexers. They're expensive, big and heavy and cost a whole lot more than the second antenna. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One antenna or two? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:55 PM 10/14/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" > >While you definitely would not want to use something like a Nav radio >splitter, there is a device specifically designed for this purpose: > >http://www.comant.com/pdfs/[ci%20601]5-05.pdf > >Take a look... Cool! I'd forgotten about this option. The device operates as a receive only coupler until you key a transmitter whereupon relays are used to disconnect the opposite transceiver during transmissions. This is VERY important as the RF energy that comes out of a comm transmitter is almost always fatally damaging to the front end of a receiver when coupled directly to the receiver. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:51 AM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One antenna or two? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" As an add-on... The Comant device operates by grounding the wire associated with the desired receiver. I've looked at the Garmin and PS-Engineering schematics, and this is how they operate the PTT switches; they ground the wire going to the radio's PTT input. So, you would just tie the leads from the Comant box to the PTT pins on your audio panel... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One antenna or two? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:55 PM 10/14/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" > >While you definitely would not want to use something like a Nav radio >splitter, there is a device specifically designed for this purpose: > >http://www.comant.com/pdfs/[ci%20601]5-05.pdf > >Take a look... Cool! I'd forgotten about this option. The device operates as a receive only coupler until you key a transmitter whereupon relays are used to disconnect the opposite transceiver during transmissions. This is VERY important as the RF energy that comes out of a comm transmitter is almost always fatally damaging to the front end of a receiver when coupled directly to the receiver. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:49 AM PST US From: Mitchgarner757@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mitchgarner757@aol.com Hi Bob, I remember, but can't find, an article you wrote about a better way to wire the coils on the Lightspeed Electronic ignition. I believe you suggested something other than the coax (RG58) to power the coils. Is this article still available? Thanks! Mitch Garner ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:09 AM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: OBAM Min Equip Requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" Thanks OC! It's on my website at: http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/MINIMUM%20INSTRUMENT%20AND%20EQUIPMENT%20REQUIREMENTS.pdf Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 (508) 764-2072 When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before. --Mae West Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: emergency battery disconnect From: Greg Campbell --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Greg Campbell Hmm.. it's an interesting device. I can see where it might come in handy on cars, but it's a little scary (to me) for an airplane. Quoting from the description: "An electrically triggered pressure pulse to cut the conductor quickly and permanently actuates an insulating wedge. The actuation is started by an electric signal that triggers the igniter and generates the pressure pyrotechnically. " So once it fires, that's it. If it fires accidentally, that's it. Once it fires, you have to replace the device. If you wanted to bypass the device, you would need a heavy duty manual switch or solenoid in parallel with the device. If you're going to do that - it seems that the KISS concept would deem the "pyrotechnically fired disconnect device" as redundant and overly complex. The last item to point out is that the device sounds like a custom device, not an off-the-shelf device that is readily available. But that's just my $0.02. For my particular application, I have two batteries in the back for CG reasons, so the "fat wires" run thru the cockpit anyway. I put a big fuse between the battery leads and the fat wires running forward. In the event of a serious meltdown event, the idea is that the big fuse will blow and shut the power off "automatically" at the battery. If you find yourself in the market for a "heavy duty" manually activated switch, you should look at the boat battery switches at West Marine / Boat US. Some are even rated for rigorous "Engine Starting Standard". myeporia.eporia.com/resources/company_57/BSS_Engine_Starting_Standard.pdf You could use a switch like this for a manual alternator disconnect, battery disconnect, even a starter switch: www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id22754&d_Id7492&l17459&l27492 And here are some other misc high amp switches. www.bluesea.com/dept.asp?d_id7492&l17459&l27492 They also make "ultra reliable electronic solenoid" which might be good for an alternator disconnect: www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId66506 Hope it helps, Greg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:03 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VFR Lighting --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:34 PM 10/19/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > > > On a more humorous note, I asked about the new AC 20-27 > > requirement that the "Passenger Warning" be in 3/8" high type. > >Devil's Advocate time.....where does the FAA define the term >placard...and where does it say it has to be a permanently/fixed >mounted item? And is this proposed? In place? I can't find it in >AC20-27F. The chapters we cite at cert time are typically taken from Part 23 or 25 under "Markings And Placards", starting at paragraph 1541. Here you'll find a lot of nice words concerning positioning and legibility but nothing speaking to size and style of lettering. The rule of thumb we've used for decades has been that placard letting be no smaller than 1/8" Futura Bold. In the certified world, the DER assigned to cockpit evaluations can apply a lot of pressure to make letters bigger or to relocate placards for "better visability". Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:53 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: emergency battery disconnect --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/2005 11:09:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, gregcampbellusa@gmail.com writes: So once it fires, that's it. If it fires accidentally, that's it. Once it fires, you have to replace the device. If you wanted to bypass the device, you would need a heavy duty manual switch or solenoid in parallel with the device. Good Morning Greg, That was my thought when I saw the device. Pretty cool for an accident, but I think I would want be able to bypass it manually if I wanted to. Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: emergency battery disconnect --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:14 AM 10/19/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Christopher Stone > > > >I came across this device: > >http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail/DelphiConnectionSystems/Battery_Disconnect_Safety_Device/25086/1 > >In the course of other research. > >This disconnect could be triggered by an accelerometer to force a battery >disconnect in the event of (heaven forbid) a crash. > >It could also be used to disconnect a runaway IR alternator. Maybe in >series with the contactor as a means of positively taking the alternator >off line? > >Maybe this will spark some ideas!? Folks who dig through piles of wreckage for a living have observed that, "When the battery separates from the wreckage and is found out in the weeds, the airplane seldom catches fire. When the airplane does burn, the battery is (more often than not) still in the airplane." Now, here's a beautiful piece of data with no obvious linkage for cause/effect. We've pondered the value of adding some kind of auto-disconnect feature to our product's batteries but discarded the idea every time as an increase in cost of ownership with no demonstrable benefits over the pilot operated controls for battery disconnect. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:20 AM 10/20/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mitchgarner757@aol.com > >Hi Bob, > >I remember, but can't find, an article you wrote about a better way to wire >the coils on the Lightspeed Electronic ignition. I believe you suggested >something other than the coax (RG58) to power the coils. > >Is this article still available? Yes. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/LightSpeedRG58.pdf Now, be advised that Klaus was most upset about this publication. His engineer advise that the ability to pass his acceptance test procedure (sparks jumping between the open plug wires towers on the coil) was at risk by substituting shielded wire for coax. He cited some differences in distributed capacity between shielded wire and coax. We're talking PICOfarads here . . . Klaus's explanation was not very illuminating and I wasn't made privy to the name of his engineer so I could make a direct inquiry. I am very skeptical of the claim. A number of folks have used this wiring technique with success. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AK-350 Harness --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:12 AM 10/19/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" > > > >Hello - I have a factory AK-350 harness that has all the right wire >colors in it, but other than the power and ground leads, they are not >connected to the right pins in the encoder 15 pin connector (per the >label on the encoder). I am planning on removing and re inserting >pins in the correct location (I wired the Transponder pins based on >the wire colors) Is this the right approach or am I missing >something? Has any one else found a harness like this miswired from >the factory? If you KNOW which colors go to which pins, then you can mark up you wiring plans accordingly. I used to sell the T2000 bundled with an AK-350 and used the factory supplied wire harness to make connections between the AK-350 and transponder. They were 100% accurate back then. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" I don't know if it's absolutely true, but my understanding is that Paul Lipps was the engineer that designed the LSE ignitions. He might also be the consultant that Klaus uses for questions about said ignitions.. Paul Lipps has gained recent fame as the designer of the propellers for several recent Reno race winners. Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 11:20 AM 10/20/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mitchgarner757@aol.com >> >>Hi Bob, >> >>I remember, but can't find, an article you wrote about a better way to >> wire the coils on the Lightspeed Electronic ignition. I believe you >> suggested something other than the coax (RG58) to power the coils. >> >>Is this article still available? > > Yes. See: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/LightSpeedRG58.pdf > > Now, be advised that Klaus was most upset about this publication. His > engineer advise that the ability to pass his acceptance test > procedure (sparks jumping between the open plug wires towers on the > coil) was at risk by substituting shielded wire for coax. He cited > some differences in distributed capacity between shielded wire and > coax. We're talking PICOfarads here . . . > > Klaus's explanation was not very illuminating and I wasn't made privy > to the name of his engineer so I could make a direct inquiry. I am > very skeptical of the claim. A number of folks have used > this wiring technique with success. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:11 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" I'm not familiar with the Lightspeed Electronic Ignition system. Is there a chance that the capacitance of the coax is in some way used as part of a tuned circuit, such that the capacitance value is a critical value? I know that in a points-and-condenser system you can sometimes substitute a different capacitor value, but in doing so you may cause the points to burn differently. Dave Morris At 11:25 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >At 11:20 AM 10/20/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mitchgarner757@aol.com > > > >Hi Bob, > > > >I remember, but can't find, an article you wrote about a better way to wire > >the coils on the Lightspeed Electronic ignition. I believe you suggested > >something other than the coax (RG58) to power the coils. > > > >Is this article still available? > > Yes. See: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/LightSpeedRG58.pdf > > Now, be advised that Klaus was most upset about this publication. > His engineer advise that the ability to pass his acceptance test > procedure (sparks jumping between the open plug wires towers on > the coil) was at risk by substituting shielded wire for coax. He > cited some differences in distributed capacity between shielded > wire and coax. We're talking PICOfarads here . . . > > Klaus's explanation was not very illuminating and I wasn't made > privy to the name of his engineer so I could make a direct inquiry. > I am very skeptical of the claim. A number of folks have used > this wiring technique with success. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:31 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Amateur Built Requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 10/20/2005 Hello Wayne, I am presuming that I am the "this guy" that you are referring to below. And that "off his rocker" implies that you are taking exception to some information that you find in my Amateur Built Requirements Table which has been sent to you and other builders. Let me assure you that I take no offense at your email. I feel that this subject is too important to be fuzzied up with emotional baggage. I would greatly appreciate it if you would respond directly to me by pointing out specifically where my table may be wrong or misleading. My goal is to put facts in the hands of my fellow builders and pilots so that they may make their decisions based on facts rather than the hearsay, gossip, or rumor that is so prevalent on this subject. If you would help me in that endeavor I thank you and look forward to a meaningful dialogue. OC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hicks, Wayne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Amateur Built Requirements > This guy's off his rocker! Has he ever read the FARs? > > ==================== > Wayne Hicks > Cozy IV Plans #678 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:41 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Amateur Built Requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <> 10/20/2005 Hello Dan, I am in complete agreement with raising that issue. Note that my table includes the statement "THIS TABLE DOES NOT PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR BEST PRACTICES. INSTALLING ONLY THE MINIMUM REQUIRED ITEMS MAY NOT BE PRUDENT OR SAFE." My goal is to provide our fellow builders and pilots with the most accurate information available so they can make their judgements free of hearsay, gossip, or rumor. Thanks for your input. OC ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:19 PM 10/20/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" > > >I'm not familiar with the Lightspeed Electronic Ignition system. Is there >a chance that the capacitance of the coax is in some way used as part of a >tuned circuit, such that the capacitance value is a critical value? I know >that in a points-and-condenser system you can sometimes substitute a >different capacitor value, but in doing so you may cause the points to burn >differently. > >Dave Morris Good question. But if it were "critical" then the installation instructions should specify exact lengths for the coax. RG-58 is about 30 pF per foot (See: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/coaxcable.html The single strand, 20AWG 22759 shielded wire is about 40 pF per foot. The differences in capacity for these two materials might have an effect in the nanosecond world but not in the microsecond world of spark generation. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:37 PM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Bus Architecture --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" With a battery located behind the baggage compartment (RV 10) should the battery bus/fuses be located close to the battery with individual circuit wiring as necessary to the powered components/switches or, should a single feeder lead from the battery to a more centrally located bus i.e. behind panel? Thanks for the advice. Dick Sipp ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:08 PM PST US From: "Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Twisted wire pairs? autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.2 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi" Guys, The installation manual for some of the equipment I am installing calls for twisting the leads. What is the purpose of twisting wires and when do I do it? When should I not twist wires? I know that the wires on the Van's flap motor are twisted and the Vision Micro System installation manual calls for twisting the leads of some of transducers, but not all. To twist or not to twist? Jerry ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Bus Architecture --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:48 PM 10/20/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" > >With a battery located behind the baggage compartment (RV 10) should the >battery bus/fuses be located close to the battery with individual circuit >wiring as necessary to the powered components/switches or, should a single >feeder lead from the battery to a more centrally located bus i.e. behind >panel? > >Thanks for the advice. If you extend the bus away from the battery, it's not a battery bus any more . . . you'll want to add some form of min-battery contactor and the bus becomes #2, aux, #3, etc. A "battery bus" is right at the battery, is always hot and feeds light loads protected by no larger than 5A breaker or 7A fuses. If a feeder larger than 7A is needed, then you'd be well advised to add some form of remotely controlled disconnect for that feeder . . . right at the bus. One example of a high-current battery bus feeder is illustrated in http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/E-BusFatFeed.gif where we see how one can feed an overweight e-bus with a 15A feeder and a relay operated by the E-BUS ALTERNATE FEED switch. Similar relays have been installed for controlling the EFI/EI systems on Subaru engines. Another item that could be on the end of a fat feeder is the remotely located bus you hypothesized above. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:31 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Heat or noise problems --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:58 AM 10/18/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lynn Riggs > >Carlos, >In Bob's book he recommends using 4AWG for short runs and 2AWG for longer >runs. > >Carlos Trigo wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" > >In my RV-9A with a Subaru engine, I need to put the 2 batteries behind the >baggage compartment, thus having to install four 6AWG wires from the >batteries to the firewall. (please no discussion abour this). >Are there any heat problems if I put all the four wires paralel, in the same >conduit ? >And what about noise problems ? It would be interesting to see how much difference there is between current draw on a Subaru starter and a Lycoming O-360. I suspect they're not much different. Never the less, 6AWG will probably peform okay in warm weather countery. Run ALL wires together with any other wires you wish in the same bundle. There are no practical reasons for separating them. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:09 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: First Operational GQM Target Flight --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:56 PM 10/15/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > ><<...skip.....The first non-experimental GQM-163 target was >launched recently.....skip......Here's a picture of the launch. > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/1st_Operational_GQM.jpg > >........skip......Bob . . .>> > >10/15/2005 > >Hello Bob Nuckolls, Any idea where that launch took place? From the nearby >plant life (called "ice plant") and the ocean it looks very much like a >beach launch from NAS Point Mugu / Pacific Missile Range. Yes, it was Pt. Mugu. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Controlling IR ND Alternators --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:06 PM 10/14/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" > > >Hey fellas (and gals)- > >There's a whole lot of anecdotal info flying about, and precious little >research. Mickey is to be commended and thanked for not only having the >interest and motivation to research his alternator, but also for posting >that info for others to benefit from. This is good stuff. He is also to >be commended for basically saying "this is how mine is.", as opposed to >"this is how all alternators work". Exactly. >This thread started out as a discussion of the rebuilt 60A alternator that >Van sells, Van's wiring directions, how this particular alternator is >configured, and other wiring options available to users of the Van's >supplied alternator. Mickey's is different. Or, perhaps I should say that >the alternator Van supplies is different from the vast majority of >alternators rolling down the road today. Don't know that this is a true statement. I think we're going to find they have more in common than in difference. > One of the big issues with using >IR alternators is the perceived inability to shut them down once running. >Well, the unit Van's sells is specifically configured to do just that. >Coincidence? I doubt it. C'mon folks, apples to apples, please. I think all the modern designs will shut down gracefully when deprived of IGN input . . . as long as the one or two pieces of silicon that make up the control system are alive and well. >I have spoken with the folks at Denso (Mickey's contact et al) to no avail, >as Van markets an O/Hauled unit. I have spoken with great success with a >mass overhauler of these units. Due to my own personal research, I am >satisfied that I now have the data I need to wire my aircraft safely, while >taking full advantage of the relatively unique attributes of my alternator. > >I would respectfully suggest that people KNOW what they are dealing with >before turning the key. NOTHING takes the place of good DATA, not even learned assumptions from experienced or credentialed crystal ball gazers. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:10 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:05 AM 10/14/2005 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" > >Paul Messinger sent me this. > >Interesting AD on Circuit Breakers. > >http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2005/20052025ad.pdf > >I am sure Bob will have more to say on this subject when he returns. These are the switch breakers I've mentioned on several occasions in the past and featured in the comic book at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Breakers/Breakers.html The failure mode cited is NOT a short but an open that causes the load path to shift. In the picture at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_3.jpg you can see the two copper wire jumpers across moving joints made up of little ropes of exceedingly fine strands of wire. These are RATED at many thousands of cycles on the data sheet . . . but it seems that the sum total of environmental stresses as-installed are such that these critters fail in a few thousand cycles. The failure begins as a breaking (or fusing) of the last remaining strands of jumper. This happens in the upper jumper. When that pathway is lost, the switch-breaker's current still flows through the spring that is intended to open the switch contacts when the lever is moved to OFF. This spring is capable of carrying current in the switch-breakers of smaller size . . . 5A and 10A but in the Prop DeIce circuit of a Bonanza or Baron, the current is so great as to cause the spring to glow cherry red and cause surrounding plastic cases to char. This is what produces the smoke. The amount of smoke was not nearly worthy of the doom and gloom inferred by the AD. The "fix" was to insert the plastic insulating sheet you can see in the inside, upper left corner of the metal frame. This prevents the spring from becoming a secondary load path and the breaker fails passively by simply allowing the downstream load to go OFF. Cessna's decision to use this product as a master switch-breaker was unfortunate. There was no need for this device to be a breaker too. Selection of this part drove parts count up and drove reliability down. If you must have an avionics master switch, the plain-jane toggle is the device of choice. Better yet, leave it out entirely. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:50 PM PST US From: rv-9a-online Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Twisted wire pairs? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online Jerry, twisting wires minimizes the electrical interference from other conductors. In some circumstances, a proper wire twist averages any interference received in both of the wires by exposing both wires to the interfering source equally. Similarly, some electrical signals can drive both of the wires in what's called a differential fashion to minimize transmitted interference. The best example is a telephone system... local distribution uses twisted pair wiring that is quite immune to electrical noise. You can make a twisted pair by chucking the wires in an electric drill, clamping the far end in a vise, and letting 'er rip. You should twist wires whenever the manufacturer recommends it. Just twisting any pair of wires (for example a signal and a ground) will have less of an effect. To be truly effective, it must be a 'balanced' system.... and the best way to determine that is from the manufacturer. As for the Van's flap motor, I think the wires are twisted as a convenience to keep them together, you don't need to twist them all the way to the switch. As for some of the engine sensors, the engine monitor manufacturers may use what is called a balance differential input. In this case 'balanced' is the key term... a twisted pair connection to the sensors will work quite well. You can also use shielded pair cable for this, and ground the shield at one end (only). The wire inside the shielded cable is also twisted, so you have the benefits of both a shield and the twisting working for you. Not all of the engine sensors need twisted pair, simply because some are already very noise immune and/or the engine monitor has internal noise filtering. Twisting or shielding won't hurt. I used shielded twisted pairs or three wires for all of my engine sensors as a matter of convenience. The wires are colour coded and the jacket is easy to label. Costs a bit more money, but Steinair and others sell it at a low cost. Your EGT & CHT cables already come shielded. Finally, twisting is a good cosmetic way to keep associated wiring together, independently of the electrical benefits. It won't hurt. Vern Little www.vx-aviation.com Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi" > >Guys, > The installation manual for some of the equipment I am installing calls for twisting the leads. What is the purpose of twisting wires and when do I do it? When should I not twist wires? I know that the wires on the Van's flap motor are twisted and the Vision Micro System installation manual calls for twisting the leads of some of transducers, but not all. > >To twist or not to twist? > >Jerry > > > >