---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/21/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:25 AM - Re: Battery Bus Architecture (John Schroeder) 2. 05:30 AM - Re: Twisted wire pairs? (John Schroeder) 3. 06:10 AM - Single Lead To Two Tachs? (Bill Denton) 4. 06:11 AM - Re: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup (Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi) 5. 06:26 AM - Re: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Jim Baker) 7. 07:59 AM - Re: Battery Bus Architecture (LarryRobertHelming) 8. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 9. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Dan Beadle) 10. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (BobsV35B@aol.com) 11. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Dan Beadle) 12. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (BobsV35B@aol.com) 13. 09:45 AM - Lighted Toggle Switches (Bret Smith) 14. 10:21 AM - Re: Amateur Built Requirements () 15. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Jim Baker) 16. 12:00 PM - Passenger Warning Placard, Font Size (Will N. Stevenson) 17. 01:02 PM - Question about Strobe Wire Disconnects (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 18. 01:50 PM - Re: Question about Strobe Wire Disconnects (James H Nelson) 19. 02:13 PM - Re: Lighted Toggle Switches (N5SL) 20. 02:20 PM - Re: Passenger Warning Placard, Font Size (Bruce Gray) 21. 02:50 PM - Re: Lighted Toggle Switches (John Schroeder) 22. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 23. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Breakers (Jim Baker) 24. 09:43 PM - welding cable (peter goudinoff) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Bus Architecture From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Dick - We have both batteries behind the baggage compartment of our Lancair ES. The battery busses are about 8-10" from the batteries and the contactors are about 12"-14". We use #2 welding cable to get the juice back and forth to the firewall. > With a battery located behind the baggage compartment (RV 10) should the > battery bus/fuses be located close to the battery with individual circuit > wiring as necessary to the powered components/switches or, should a > single feeder lead from the battery to a more centrally located bus i.e. > behind > panel? John Schroeder -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Twisted wire pairs? From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Jerry - Twisting can reduce noise out of or into the wires. I would twist them when the installation info says to do it. They probably have reason to prescribe it. After that, common sens seems to be the norm. If a set of wires feed a similar piece of equipment, I would twist them. I'd also twist wires such as press-to-talk wiring on a stick. Hope this helps. John Schroeder On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:17:14 -0500 autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.2, Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi wrote: > The installation manual for some of the equipment I am installing calls > for twisting the leads. What is the purpose of twisting > wires and > when do I do it? When should I not twist wires? -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:45 AM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Single Lead To Two Tachs? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" Can the Tach output on a Rotax 2-Stroke engine be used to feed two separate Tach instruments? If so, how would you wire it? I'm looking at some "combo" instruments where some displays are duplicated. Thanks... ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:59 AM PST US From: "Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.2 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi" Bob and others, It may be a moot point on whether RG-58 is suitable to task of LSE's electronic ignition. LSE now ships them with RG-400. The Plasma III I received early this year came with RG-400. Bob, is this wire up to the task? Jerry Firewall fwd wiring ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Ignition Coil hookup --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:11 AM 10/21/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi" > > >Bob and others, > It may be a moot point on whether RG-58 is suitable to task of LSE's > electronic ignition. LSE now ships them with RG-400. The Plasma III I > received early this year came with RG-400. Bob, is this wire up to the task? Most certainly. The biggest problem with RG-58 was it's very low melting points for the inner insulation and it's vulnerability to hydrocarbon vapors and other uglies that live under the cowl. RG-400 is much more suitable. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:59 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > The failure mode cited is NOT a short but an open that causes > the load path to shift. In the picture at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_3.jpg > > you can see the two copper wire jumpers across moving > joints made up of little ropes of exceedingly fine strands > of wire. These are RATED at many thousands of cycles on the > data sheet . . . but it seems that the sum total of environmental > stresses as-installed are such that these critters fail in a few > thousand cycles. Well, it's time for me to display my ignorance again. In so many of the aircraft I've flown or owned, I can't tell you the number of times a circuit breaker has actually been cycled (aside from the fact that many can't unless tripped by load). I suspect it may be a procedural thing to pull breakers on larger aircraft for some specific purpose. Any examples? I'll slink back into my hole now...... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:15 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Bus Architecture --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Usually there are not many devices powered from the battery bus/buss. I would mount it close to the battery to minimize exposure of the unprotected run and then run wires as needed to the components/accessories powered by it through fuses appropriate for the devices. You just need to pick a location for it close to the battery that could be somewhat easily accessible while on the ground if a fuse blows. Maybe a special access door could be built for this purpose of checking the fuses. Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Bus Architecture > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" > > > With a battery located behind the baggage compartment (RV 10) should the > battery bus/fuses be located close to the battery with individual circuit > wiring as necessary to the powered components/switches or, should a single > feeder lead from the battery to a more centrally located bus i.e. behind > panel? > > Thanks for the advice. > > Dick Sipp > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:35 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Jim you big dope. EVERYBODY knows you should cycle those breakers every once in a while. Don't they?:) Mike Have seen this discussed on the list before. Was recommended by Bob to do that. I remember first doing it and it felt like I did when I was a new pilot playing with the RED knob. I was afraid if I pulled it, it would never go back to the way it was. Know what I mean? Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > The failure mode cited is NOT a short but an open that causes > the load path to shift. In the picture at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_3.jpg > > you can see the two copper wire jumpers across moving > joints made up of little ropes of exceedingly fine strands > of wire. These are RATED at many thousands of cycles on the > data sheet . . . but it seems that the sum total of environmental > stresses as-installed are such that these critters fail in a few > thousand cycles. Well, it's time for me to display my ignorance again. In so many of the aircraft I've flown or owned, I can't tell you the number of times a circuit breaker has actually been cycled (aside from the fact that many can't unless tripped by load). I suspect it may be a procedural thing to pull breakers on larger aircraft for some specific purpose. Any examples? I'll slink back into my hole now...... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers From: "Dan Beadle" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" The fact that you have not had a breaker pop is great - you have not had system failures. Obviously, if the "weak link" (breaker) were not there and you had a short circuit, something else would eventually become the weak link. This is normally the wire to the device. If the wire burns, it may be behind some panel or insulation (where it is more difficult to get the heat away from the wire) So you have a potential fire - or at least noxious fumes - possibly in the cockpit. As for pulling breakers, the hat-style CBs are a switch of last resort. You will find them in Cessnas and Pipers for circuits where a stuck controls switch is a problem. Some examples: - Stall Warning system - there is no other "off switch" if the stall vane fails and the horn is on continuously - Gear motors. My C414 gear is electric/hydraulic. If a critical microswitch fails (or the wires to it short) the gear motor runs continuously. Problem is, it will fail after about 60 seconds of continuous operation. - Autopilot Disconnect. The FAA seems frightened of autopilot "run away", so there are multiple ways to turn off the AP. In my plane there are 4: the AP on/off switch, the yoke disconnect, the AP mounted emergency switch and finally the AP CB. The checklist calls for testing these before each flight... So the CB with the hat (finger pulls) really do offer two levels of safety: over current (the CB feature) and one last disconnect (a switch). The flat style CBs don't offer the pilot controlled switch feature. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" --> > The failure mode cited is NOT a short but an open that causes > the load path to shift. In the picture at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_3.jpg > > you can see the two copper wire jumpers across moving > joints made up of little ropes of exceedingly fine strands > of wire. These are RATED at many thousands of cycles on the > data sheet . . . but it seems that the sum total of environmental > stresses as-installed are such that these critters fail in a few > thousand cycles. Well, it's time for me to display my ignorance again. In so many of the aircraft I've flown or owned, I can't tell you the number of times a circuit breaker has actually been cycled (aside from the fact that many can't unless tripped by load). I suspect it may be a procedural thing to pull breakers on larger aircraft for some specific purpose. Any examples? I'll slink back into my hole now...... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:24 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 10/21/2005 10:18:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com writes: As for pulling breakers, the hat-style CBs are a switch of last resort. You will find them in Cessnas and Pipers for circuits where a stuck controls switch is a problem. Good Morning Dan, You might also add that Beech often uses a switch type of combination switch/circuit breaker. Later models of the Bonanza have them for most of the control switches on the lower left electrical control panel. If you look closely, the amperage rating of the CB function is generally printed on the tip of the switch handle. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers From: "Dan Beadle" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" Right. That is the same on my C414 for the avionics. And they have an AD against that Breaker/Switch right now. I have not looked at the details, but if there were a failure of the "on/off" switch part of the combo where it stuck on, there is no separate CB to "pull" off. The combo saves space, but I would prefer a separate switch and pull breaker. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 10/21/2005 10:18:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com writes: As for pulling breakers, the hat-style CBs are a switch of last resort. You will find them in Cessnas and Pipers for circuits where a stuck controls switch is a problem. Good Morning Dan, You might also add that Beech often uses a switch type of combination switch/circuit breaker. Later models of the Bonanza have them for most of the control switches on the lower left electrical control panel. If you look closely, the amperage rating of the CB function is generally printed on the tip of the switch handle. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:34 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 10/21/2005 11:11:15 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com writes: Right. That is the same on my C414 for the avionics. And they have an AD against that Breaker/Switch right now. I have not looked at the details, but if there were a failure of the "on/off" switch part of the combo where it stuck on, there is no separate CB to "pull" off. The combo saves space, but I would prefer a separate switch and pull breaker. Dan Good Morning Dan, I do not have that AD available to me at this time, but I do not believe it applies to the ones used by Beechcraft in the Bonanza. However, I can certainly see your reasoning for preferring to have the switches and the circuit breakers separate from each other. I can also see the point for using the combination unit in order to save space! So far, the combos have worked well for me. No doubt, though, that any component we use is subject to failure. Thank goodness we have choices. Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:14 AM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lighted Toggle Switches --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bret Smith" I was looking for a lighted toggle switch that would help with switch location during nighttime flights and ran across these puppies. http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail/NKKSwitches/Lighted_Toggle _switch_with_superbright_LEDs/4462/0 These appear to be bright enough to offer a panel lighting option as well. Does anyone have any experience with these switches or NKK switches in general? Bret ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:55 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Amateur Built Requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 10/21/2005 Hello Wayne, Thanks for your prompt response copied below and the opportunity to confirm the correctness of my table and to clear up a common misunderstanding. Here is the situation: The FAA, with help from the EAA, permits the flying, in day VFR only, of some very rudimentary (no offense intended) aircraft. Some examples are Breezy, Cri-Cri, Curtis Pusher Replicas, and Quicksilver MX. These are true amateur built experimental aircraft that are registered with the FAA, have N numbers assigned, and have been issued Special Category airworthiness certificates for operating amateur built aircraft. But it is obviously impractical or impossible for these rudimentary aircraft to be instrumented and equipped as required by FAR Sec 91.205 (b). At the same time the FAA wants to ensure that more sophisticated and higher powered amateur built experimental aircraft that will be flown IFR or at night are properly equipped for such flight. The FAA accomplishes this dual goal through wording in the Operating Limitations that are the part of the airworthiness certificate of each amateur built experimental aircraft. Those words are: "After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only." Maybe there is a better way for the way for the FAA to accomplish their intended dual goals (I find the above wording awkward and back handed myself, even in conflict with some other words in the Operating Limitations), but that is the way they are doing it now. If you want confirmation of what I have written above I can put you in touch with the authorities. The table that I have created is accurate for equipping (and to some extent operating) amateur built experimental aircraft because it takes into account current FAA policy, FAA Orders, FAR content, and each aircraft's airworthiness certificate which includes the Operating Limitations with the wording provided above. << 91.205 is so very clear that powered civil aircraft with ANY US category airworthiness certificate must have the instruments and equipment in 91.205(b).>> Not quite. The heading of FAR Sec 91.205 reads "Powered civil aircraft with STANDARD category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements." (emphasis provided). Since amateur built experimental aircraft have SPECIAL category, not Standard, category, airworthiness certificates FAR Sec 91.205, as written, does not apply to amateur built experimental aircraft at all. It takes the Operating Limitations wording quoted above to make FAR Sec 91.205 applicable to amateur built aircraft as reflected in my table. <> You are right. The table on page 68 of the Sep 2005 issue of Sport Aviation magazine is different from mine. Dick Koehler created that table as an accurate reflection of FAR Sec 91.205 AS WRITTEN for aircraft with Standard category airworthiness certificates. Note the title of that table. In order to find out how that table relates to amateur built experimental aircraft the reader must go into the text of Dick's article and interpret the applicability of the table. Dick very kindly provided me an electronic copy of his table. What I did was modify it, and retitle it, so that the reader could directly see the requirements for amateur built experimental aircraft without having to go hunting through other sources. I would like to emphasize that no table, plus a few accompanying words, can tell the entire exact picture of this somewhat complex subject. There are some subtle "gotchas" that require some further reading and understanding. Please let me know if you have any further questions. OC ---- Original Message ----- From: "Hicks, Wayne" Subject: RE: Amateur Built Requirements > > Hello Wayne, I am presuming that I am the "this guy" > > ----> I'm sorry, I thought I was replying to someone who forwarded the > links > from another person. Had I known that you were indeed "that guy", I would > have addressed you more formally and more completely. > > And that "off his rocker" implies that you are taking exception to > some information that you find in my Amateur Built Requirements Table > which > has been sent to you and other builders. > > --> I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion of "not required" for > most > all of the day VFR? 91.205 is so very clear that powered civil aircraft > with ANY US category airworthiness certificate must have the instruments > and > equipment in 91.205(b). The reason I say this is your table differs > drastically from the table that appeared recently in Sport Aviation > magazine. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:45 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > As for pulling breakers, the hat-style CBs are a switch of last > resort. ...snip...... >Autopilot > Disconnect. Good point. My current ride, Bellanca Viking, has the ETA breakers and the little red buttons staring at me, even, wisdom-of-wisdoms, in the autopilot CB position...couldn't pull any of them even if I wanted to. Duh. May have to see if I have a P&B W23 sitting around... problem with that is all my ETAs are spade, not ring terminal....sigh! As for the RED KNOB....no fear. I'm a cheap SOB and the first thing I do is look for ways to keep an excess of anything from burning up..... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:31 PM PST US From: "Will N. Stevenson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Passenger Warning Placard, Font Size --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Will N. Stevenson" To perhaps beat on a dead horse here, I looked at AC20-27E, and AC20-27F, and nowhere in either one is the 3/8" high font mentioned for the Passenger Warning Placard. What am I missing here? Where has this 3/8" font information/rumour come from? Don't the FSDO personnel have to go by the ACs issued by the FAA? AC20-27E writes of this under 'Certification Process', Section 12 (e)(2), --no mention of font size. AC20-27F writes of this under 'Identifying and Marking your Amateur-Built Aircraft', Section 9 (c), --no mention of font size. Probably I'm just missing some info here, but where is it? Frustrated and Confused, Will ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:40 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Strobe Wire Disconnects --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Greetings. I'm currently building a Europa. For those of your that are not familiar with that bird, the wings are removable. I plan on installing the Whelen 3 in one tip lights with a single comet flash unit located in the fuselage baggage area. In doing this set up, there will be a need to disconnect the high voltage wires at the wing root with some sort of plug arrangement. My question is about how to go about making a a safe, reliable and noise free connection at the wing root that will enable wing removal. Plug suggestions? Shielding necessary? Thanks in advance for your opinions and ideas. Brian Skelly Texas Europa # A276 TriGear See My build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Strobe Wire Disconnects From: James H Nelson --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson I used the supplied molex disconnects at the wing root for disconnecting. Works fine as I flew it for two years with no noise or problems. The Molex disconnects are fine for the high voltage. I had the power supply in the fuselage and ran the supplied shielded wires to the wing tips. Jim Nelson (Monowheel) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:36 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lighted Toggle Switches --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N5SL Bret: I just installed these with the little lights on the end of the toggle: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_20_05_Switches.JPG They are not as intense as lighting the entire toggle. They come in red and green. The price was around $5 each. I can try to take a photo of them lit up if you want. I also used some rocker switches with little round lights on them. I'll try to get a close-up, but you can see them on my panel photos on my website. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com CH601XL/Corvair Bret Smith wrote: These appear to be bright enough to offer a panel lighting option as well. Does anyone have any experience with these switches or NKK switches in general? Bret --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:55 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Passenger Warning Placard, Font Size --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Several years ago the FAA issued a new AC20-27?, in preliminary electronic format. In it was the 3/8 inch font size requirement. The EAA and all us guys started raising a fuss and the FAA recanted, saying it was a mistake. The final published revision did not have any font size requirement. Seems like some of our brethren are a bit behind the curve. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Will N. Stevenson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Passenger Warning Placard, Font Size --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Will N. Stevenson" To perhaps beat on a dead horse here, I looked at AC20-27E, and AC20-27F, and nowhere in either one is the 3/8" high font mentioned for the Passenger Warning Placard. What am I missing here? Where has this 3/8" font information/rumour come from? Don't the FSDO personnel have to go by the ACs issued by the FAA? AC20-27E writes of this under 'Certification Process', Section 12 (e)(2), --no mention of font size. AC20-27F writes of this under 'Identifying and Marking your Amateur-Built Aircraft', Section 9 (c), --no mention of font size. Probably I'm just missing some info here, but where is it? Frustrated and Confused, Will ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lighted Toggle Switches From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Bret - We used 12 NKK indicator lamps (LED's as the light source in each lamp) for our annunciator panel. They are the lamp-only version of a line of push button lighted switches. We got them through Carlton Bates. They have offices around the country. The quality is excellent and the data in their catalog is also excellent. Sure thanked them when we had the annunciator panel cut to their dimensions and the lamps fit perfectly. We also bought a couple of mini lock switches from them and they are excellent. I'd buy any of their product line. Hope this helps, John -- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:42 AM 10/21/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > > > The failure mode cited is NOT a short but an open that causes > > the load path to shift. In the picture at: > > > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_3.jpg > > > > you can see the two copper wire jumpers across moving > > joints made up of little ropes of exceedingly fine strands > > of wire. These are RATED at many thousands of cycles on the > > data sheet . . . but it seems that the sum total of environmental > > stresses as-installed are such that these critters fail in a few > > thousand cycles. > >Well, it's time for me to display my ignorance again. In so many of >the aircraft I've flown or owned, I can't tell you the number of times a >circuit breaker has actually been cycled (aside from the fact that >many can't unless tripped by load). I suspect it may be a procedural >thing to pull breakers on larger aircraft for some specific purpose. >Any examples? I'll slink back into my hole now...... A breaker is a specialized kind of switch with contacts held together by springs to maintain a minimum pressure for good conductivity across the contacts. Like switches, lightly loaded breakers (5A or less) are subject to environmental stresses that corrode the contacts (molecules thick) that will drive up the close contact resistance . . . sometimes to the point of system malfunction. I've seen this happen several times and the problem is always fixable by cycling the switch a dozen times or so with some artificially high load (5A is enough) to "burn" the corrosion clear. Alternatively, if the breakers are manually cycled under load a half dozen times each annual, perhaps one will avoid having the thing go open while in flight (very rare). All this stuff is pretty academic . . . the failure mode is very low rate although very under-reported because the technicians don't recognize it. They simply replace the "failed" switch. I've recommended periodic cycling to avoid this phenomenon. I hesitate to even mention it lest it get fertilized and take off in the world of hangar legend funguses. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:13 PM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breakers --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" >I've recommended periodic cycling to avoid this phenomenon. I >hesitate to even mention it lest it get fertilized and take off in the >world of hangar legend funguses. > > Bob . . . ............98,99,100. Next preflight item........... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:48 PM PST US From: peter goudinoff Subject: AeroElectric-List: welding cable --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: peter goudinoff as suggested, I'm installing #4 welding cable for my battery hookups any idea how this stuff will do inside the engine compartment? peter goudinoff Legacy #200