Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: PMA/VR's (Rodney Dunham)
2. 05:04 AM - Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft Electrical System (Roger & Alice Hoffman)
3. 05:31 AM - Controlling IR ND Alternators ()
4. 07:00 AM - RV master Relay (N5SL)
5. 07:06 AM - Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft Electrical System (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:39 AM - Re: Do Not Archive (Eric M. Jones)
7. 08:08 AM - Master Relay Mount (bob rundle)
8. 08:08 AM - Re: Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft Electrical System (Bill Denton)
9. 08:10 AM - Re: RV master Relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Carlos Sa)
11. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Terry Watson)
12. 08:47 AM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
13. 09:39 AM - Re: Master Relay Mount (Mike)
14. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Jerry Grimmonpre)
15. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
16. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (BobsV35B@aol.com)
17. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Dave Morris \)
18. 11:47 AM - fatwire again (Larry E. James)
19. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Eric M. Jones)
20. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: IGNORE, personal invictive, etc... (N1deltawhiskey@aol.com)
21. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: IGNORE, personal invictive, etc... (Richard Tasker)
22. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: IGNORE, personal invictive, etc... (Kevin Horton)
23. 05:27 PM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Jerry Grimmonpre)
24. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Jerry Grimmonpre)
25. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: Do Not Archive (Kevin Horton)
26. 07:25 PM - [Please Read] The Do Not Archive Flag and List Behavior... (Matt Dralle)
27. 08:37 PM - Copper versus Copper Clad Aluminum (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 08:43 PM - Re: fatwire again (Bob White)
29. 08:49 PM - Re: Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
30. 08:51 PM - Re: Master Relay Mount (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
Bob,
Great idea about the upcoming comic book. BTW, why do you call them comic
books???
My planes both use PM alternators. Almost all the discussion is concerning
the other alternator type. I would appreciate a comic book on the PM
alternator and VR.
Some of my questions:
How many volts AC produced by the (Rotax 912/Jabiru 3300) alternator at
various RPM's?
How can I measure this on mine? (Should I???)
How many amps AC produced by the alternator at various RPM's?
How does the (Ducati) VR convert the AC to DC?
What happens to the exter engerny after the BAT is charged?
What are the failure modes?
How would I recognize impending failure?
How do I differentiate BAT from VR from ALT failure?
Do I really need crowbar protection in a PM system?
Could you design a "dream regulator" that B&C could fab and sell me???
I think I have gleaned most of the answers to the above questions but need
to put it all together in my mind. Remember, I'm not an engineer. As a
friend of mine says frequently with a big grin, you have to explain it to me
like I'm a DOCTOR!*
*In other words, keep it SIMPLE!
DocRod in Tennessee
Message 2
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| Subject: | Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft Electrical System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roger & Alice Hoffman" <rognal@clipper.net>
In the Z-11 electrical system is there an alternative workaround if I cannot position
the battery bus within a six inch wire run length of the battery contactor?
Or the silicone diode & heatsink within a six inch wire run length of the
main bus and essential bus?
If these wire runs needed to be 2X or 3X longer would the wire size be increased?
Or an inline fuse installed? Or both? Or other?
I'm new at this so thanks in advance for any help. I appreciate it.
Roger
Message 3
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| Subject: | Controlling IR ND Alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
<lhelming@sigecom.net>
<<.....skip.......I can be served by knowing the option of how to install
and maintain an IR
alternator safely in my plane......skip.......>>
10/28/2005
Hello Larry, I believe that this goal can be met by buying the 40 amp
alternator kit advertised here
http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ along with the Zeftronic OVP wiring and
equipment set up available by link from this web site.
The problem arises when the aircraft builders insist on being able to
subsequently walk into an auto parts store and buy an IR alternator of
unknown provenance and quality that purports to be of identical
configuration and performance to their existing IR alternator, but in fact
may perform differently and be of poor quality.
People can have different versions of what constitutes "safety", but for
the reasons that I provided previously (partially copied below) I don't see
how instructions in any book can make a auto parts store rebuilt IR
alternator purchase a satisfactory safe solution.
OC
PS: Provided Previously: "But there are multiple versions of automotive and
industrial IR alternators from each alternator manufacturer with a variety
of different external wire
connections that perform various unspecified or undocumented functions. Some
of these IR alternators may be wired identically externally, but perform
differently under either normal or failure mode conditions because the
internal voltage regulators are different. Some of these IR alternators are
brand new from the OEM, others have been rebuilt or modified in an unknown
fashion by rebuilders who may also be unknown. The part number of a rebuilt
or modified IR alternator may be identical to the part number of a new IR
alternator. Two apparently identical IR alternators may have entirely
different performance characteristics during partial or complete failure."
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi guys:
I have an easy and possibly a dumb question about how the RVers are using the Vans
supplied master relay and starter relay. I ordered a set of these from Vans
with the diodes and a little bit of bus bar. I plan to tie my main power in
at the busbar between the two relays as shown here from Bob Hester's page:
http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/images/P4080553sm.jpg
In other words, when the master relay is engaged, it will provide power to my fuse
box where everything is connected.
Can anybody tell me if this make sense?
Thanks,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft Electrical System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:21 PM 10/27/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roger & Alice Hoffman"
><rognal@clipper.net>
>
>In the Z-11 electrical system is there an alternative workaround if I
>cannot position the battery bus within a six inch wire run length of the
>battery contactor? Or the silicone diode & heatsink within a six inch wire
>run length of the main bus and essential bus.
>
>If these wire runs needed to be 2X or 3X longer would the wire size be
>increased? Or an inline fuse installed? Or both? Or other?
>
>I'm new at this so thanks in advance for any help. I appreciate it.
The 6-inch "rule" (if you want to call it that) is an FAA
position for small, unprotected wires. The notion is that
they'll philosophically accept the risks for burning 6"
of wire. Your own philosophy is another matter. Further,
if there are real mechanical concerns for risk to an extended
battery bus feeder, take some extra pains to insulate and/or
protect the wire. I'd have no heartburn over a 12 or even 24"
feeder if well clear of moving parts that might damage the
wire and the wire was not routed through places that made it
difficult to monitor during periodic inspections.
Having offered that, I would repeat an earlier notion that
LONG extensions of always-hot busses (like from tail of
a/c to panel) makes it something other than a battery bus
and calls for remote control of that feeder with a mini-contactor
that allows taking the bus completely dark on short final
to the rocks.
I would avoid any additional form of protection like fuses
or breakers in a battery bus feeder. The whole reason for
the always hot bus is to provide the single most reliable
source of power with a minimum of parts count and elimination
of as many single points of failure as practical. This is
where the little fuse block setting inches away from the
battery contactor meets those design goals exactly and
at very low cost and effort.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Ahem....then on the other hand.
If you accept yesterdays postings as typical. They were 37K (including the
"do not archive" stuff, much duplication and with no compression).
So a year of Aeroelectric is 37k X 365 = 14Megs. (If you checked the math to
see if I used k=1024 or k=1000 you are anal retentitive!)
But I digress...
So all the Aeroelectric postings from the beginning of time until when we
are all dead (Bob gets t-boned but the most of the rest of us die in our
OBAM airplanes)....would be less than one Gigabyte. With current storage
technology, no compression, etc., this would fit inside your Swiss Army
knife USB storage chip. http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/6b3b/ along
with the tools which include a ballpoint pen, an LED flashlightknife,
scissors, file with screwdriver, and key ring. Within just a few years, all
of the Matronics list will fit into your knife--along with.....just
imagine....!
In the near future, of course--a copy of EVERYTHING EVER WRITTEN by human
beings will fit into a 3D storage-read-write chip 1mm cubed. The calculation
is left to the student (Refer to R. Feynman's "There's Plenty of Room at the
Bottom.")
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
What the West really has to offer is honesty. Somehow, in the midst of their
horrid history, the best among the Gaijin learned a wonderful lesson. They
learned to distrust themselves, to doubt even what they were taught to
believe
or what their egos make them yearn to see. To know that even truth must be
scrutinized, it was a great discovery....
-- David Brin, "Dr. Pak's Preschool"
Message 7
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| Subject: | Master Relay Mount |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com>
I have noticed my master relay has plastic boots covering the mounting
flanges. Most master relays are metal mounting brackets. Is this going to
cause any problems? It means the casing is not grounded.
Thanks
BobR
Message 8
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| Subject: | Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft Electrical System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
This brings up several elementary questions for me...
Does the 6-inch "rule" apply to the distance between the source and the
fuse/breaker, or between the fuse/breaker and the load?
Some hypothetical:
Assume a 24" wire directly from a battery, through a switch, to a landing
light. Where should this wire be protected?
Assume a 24" wire directly from a battery, through a switch, to a master bus
(no contactor). Where should this wire be protected?
What determines the break-point at which a "power switch" is no longer
adequate and a contactor should be used?
On the "Z" drawings, I notice that downsized wire fusible links are
sometimes used. Is there a reason why a fuse or breaker would not be used
there?
I'm sure I will come up with more questions later, but I don't want to
reveal my total ignorance in one fell swoop.
Note to Bob: I have "The Connection" on my Christmas list...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft
Electrical System
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:21 PM 10/27/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Roger & Alice Hoffman"
><rognal@clipper.net>
>
>In the Z-11 electrical system is there an alternative workaround if I
>cannot position the battery bus within a six inch wire run length of the
>battery contactor? Or the silicone diode & heatsink within a six inch wire
>run length of the main bus and essential bus.
>
>If these wire runs needed to be 2X or 3X longer would the wire size be
>increased? Or an inline fuse installed? Or both? Or other?
>
>I'm new at this so thanks in advance for any help. I appreciate it.
The 6-inch "rule" (if you want to call it that) is an FAA
position for small, unprotected wires. The notion is that
they'll philosophically accept the risks for burning 6"
of wire. Your own philosophy is another matter. Further,
if there are real mechanical concerns for risk to an extended
battery bus feeder, take some extra pains to insulate and/or
protect the wire. I'd have no heartburn over a 12 or even 24"
feeder if well clear of moving parts that might damage the
wire and the wire was not routed through places that made it
difficult to monitor during periodic inspections.
Having offered that, I would repeat an earlier notion that
LONG extensions of always-hot busses (like from tail of
a/c to panel) makes it something other than a battery bus
and calls for remote control of that feeder with a mini-contactor
that allows taking the bus completely dark on short final
to the rocks.
I would avoid any additional form of protection like fuses
or breakers in a battery bus feeder. The whole reason for
the always hot bus is to provide the single most reliable
source of power with a minimum of parts count and elimination
of as many single points of failure as practical. This is
where the little fuse block setting inches away from the
battery contactor meets those design goals exactly and
at very low cost and effort.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV master Relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:59 AM 10/28/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Hi guys:
>
>
>I have an easy and possibly a dumb question about how the RVers are using
>the Vans supplied master relay and starter relay. I ordered a set of
>these from Vans with the diodes and a little bit of bus bar. I plan to
>tie my main power in at the busbar between the two relays as shown here
>from Bob Hester's page:
>
>
>http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/images/P4080553sm.jpg
>
>
>In other words, when the master relay is engaged, it will provide power to
>my fuse box where everything is connected.
>
>
>Can anybody tell me if this make sense?
Take a peek at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/DISKA09F.JPG
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/DISKA11F.JPG
The technique you're asking for the use of solid bars in lieu of fat
wires between various components is commonly practiced on LOTS of airplanes.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Eric, you are correct re technology, but I think the point is more to avoid having
to scan through
irrelevant postings while searching for good info.
Search technology still lags behing storage technology.
Respectfully
Carlos
do not archive
--- "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
> Ahem....then on the other hand.
>
> If you accept yesterdays postings as typical. They were 37K (including the
> "do not archive" stuff, much duplication and with no compression).
>
> So a year of Aeroelectric is 37k X 365 = 14Megs. (If you checked the math to
> see if I used k=1024 or k=1000 you are anal retentitive!)
>
> But I digress...
>
> So all the Aeroelectric postings from the beginning of time until when we
> are all dead (Bob gets t-boned but the most of the rest of us die in our
> OBAM airplanes)....would be less than one Gigabyte. With current storage
> technology, no compression, etc., this would fit inside your Swiss Army
> knife USB storage chip. http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/6b3b/ along
> with the tools which include a ballpoint pen, an LED flashlightknife,
> scissors, file with screwdriver, and key ring. Within just a few years, all
> of the Matronics list will fit into your knife--along with.....just
> imagine....!
>
> In the near future, of course--a copy of EVERYTHING EVER WRITTEN by human
> beings will fit into a 3D storage-read-write chip 1mm cubed. The calculation
> is left to the student (Refer to R. Feynman's "There's Plenty of Room at the
> Bottom.")
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Very good points, Eric, but I don't want to have to search through
"EVERYTHING EVER WRITTEN by human beings..." to find a bit of wisdom about
solder vs. crimps. DO NOT ARCHIVE is a nice alternative. Besides, it's
Matt's rule, and it's Matt's list.
Terry
Within just a few years, all
of the Matronics list will fit into your knife--along with.....just
imagine....!
In the near future, of course--a copy of EVERYTHING EVER WRITTEN by human
beings will fit into a 3D storage-read-write chip 1mm cubed. The calculation
is left to the student (Refer to R. Feynman's "There's Plenty of Room at the
Bottom.")
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 10/28/05 9:41:08 AM Central Daylight Time,
emjones@charter.net writes:
> With current storage
> technology, no compression, etc., this would fit inside your Swiss Army
> knife USB storage chip
>>>>
That's not the point- it's a major pain to sort through
six-hundred-forty-thousand (plus change) blades when all I need is the corkscrew!
A search just
now of the A-list revealed 4707 messages for "IR & alternator" and ZERO for "do
not archive"...........
Now try finding THIS message in the archives! 8-)
Mark Phillips
Message 13
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| Subject: | Master Relay Mount |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
Bob,
There are several different types of relays available for different
applications. In your case it sounds like you have a relay that gets
its coil power from the relay input post. It uses ground for the other
side of the coil to trigger the relay. Therefore when you ground the
case or small post it closes the relay if power is being supplied to the
main input post.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob
rundle
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Master Relay Mount
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle"
<bobrundle2@hotmail.com>
I have noticed my master relay has plastic boots covering the mounting
flanges. Most master relays are metal mounting brackets. Is this going
to
cause any problems? It means the casing is not grounded.
Thanks
BobR
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
How about considering this for "Do Not Archive" ...
I've been reading the list for sometime and I find some of the important
gems are not archived when they have something to teach or lend and vice
versa.
If an author thinks his offering is really good and deserves to be in the
archives, his time spent on it should drive him to include a simpler term
... "Archive".
Another author who is just spraying words around to be cute or flip or likes
to see his name in print doesn't have to "Do Not Archive" and it simply will
be gone. The many who don't remember the negative term will have their
offering disposed of automatically.
A follow-on comment from an author who finds a piece worthy and should be
archived can simply "Archive" and save the piece from destruction, with his
comments added.
This approach would allow for the cutesy and flip stuff to fall by the
wayside and no harm.
Are you there Matt?
Just my 2 cents ...
Jerry Grimmonpre
> That's not the point- it's a major pain to sort through
> six-hundred-forty-thousand (plus change) blades when all I need is the
> corkscrew! A search just > now of the A-list revealed 4707 messages for
> "IR & alternator" and ZERO for "do
> not archive"...........
>
> Now try finding THIS message in the archives! 8-)
>
> Mark Phillips
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 10/28/05 12:20:27 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@mc.net
writes:
> Just my 2 cents ...
>>>
Yeah, Jerry- I was about to suggest the same thing a couple of weeks ago-
I'll up ya to a nickle!
Mark - do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 10/28/2005 12:20:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jerry@mc.net writes:
This approach would allow for the cutesy and flip stuff to fall by the
wayside and no harm.
Are you there Matt?
Just my 2 cents ...
Jerry Grimmonpre
I like it!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Doubtful that it would happen. A lot of good stuff would be lost as people
forget to explicitly say "Archive". It's not the way the other
100,000,000,000,000 email discussion lists work, and Matt may not have
control over how the software works, unless he wrote it.
Dave Morris
At 12:49 PM 10/28/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 10/28/2005 12:20:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>jerry@mc.net writes:
>
>This approach would allow for the cutesy and flip stuff to fall by the
>wayside and no harm.
>
>Are you there Matt?
>
>Just my 2 cents ...
>
>Jerry Grimmonpre
>
>
>I like it!
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8503
>
>
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry E. James" <larry@ncproto.com>
Hi all,
I asked this a few days ago and there were no answers
other than a nice reply and following samples from Eric
Jones (thank you Eric :-).
"I just caught the thread on fatwire and looked at the
website. At first take this looks great. What
insulation is being used ?? I read that 4awg wire has
the same performance as 2awg wire ..... does this mean I
could replace my planned 2awg runs (2) from battery in
baggage to engine starter with CCA 4awg ??"
I know this isn't as interesting as the commotion about
IR regulators but it sure is worthwhile. This wire is
much lighter in weight and seems to be a great thing for
our aircraft. So I'm asking people that know more about
this than I (easy in this case) ..... what are the
caveats, if any, to my using 4awg Fatwire instead of
2awg Mil-Spec (copper) wire for my power and ground runs
from the battery located aft of the baggage compartment
forward to the main buss and starter ???
--
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Thanks to the people who noted that the point was just not having to dig through
too much irrelevancy in the archives. I agree. I just wanted to calm anyone
from worrying about Matt's running out of room.
It might be useful to employ the Google concept, or some way to see how many people
ever look at a posting again. This is a pretty standard way of determining
if a thing should be archived. The more an archived note gets called back up,
the higher relevancy it has. I think Google may be a better archive search engine
than what we have now.
Try it the next time you need to search the archives.
(Do Not Archive)
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: IGNORE, personal invictive, etc... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
OK, getting a little education here. One other question - is this common
with other servers, just Matronics, and how widespread is the use of that
function.
If I am understanding correctly, this message will not be archived with
inclusion of the phrase below. Correct?
Doug
In a message dated 27-Oct-05 12:55:42 Pacific Standard Time,
retasker@optonline.net writes:
This could get to be a lot of storage so Matt (the
owner of said server) asks that when a message is sent that has no
particular historical or useful significance (like the name calling and
other unseemly things that have been going on here lately) the sender of
said message include "do not archive" somewhere in the message. This
triggers his mail software to NOT store it in the archives.
The following is directly from the Matronics web site Q&A:
*
******************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: IGNORE, personal invictive, etc... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Correct!
Dick Tasker
N1deltawhiskey@aol.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>
>OK, getting a little education here. One other question - is this common
>with other servers, just Matronics, and how widespread is the use of that
>function.
>
>If I am understanding correctly, this message will not be archived with
>inclusion of the phrase below. Correct?
>
>Doug
>
>
>In a message dated 27-Oct-05 12:55:42 Pacific Standard Time,
>retasker@optonline.net writes:
>This could get to be a lot of storage so Matt (the
>owner of said server) asks that when a message is sent that has no
>particular historical or useful significance (like the name calling and
>other unseemly things that have been going on here lately) the sender of
>said message include "do not archive" somewhere in the message. This
>triggers his mail software to NOT store it in the archives.
>
>The following is directly from the Matronics web site Q&A:
>*
>******************************************
>*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
>*****************************************
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: IGNORE, personal invictive, etc... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
And, "do not archive" is a special function that Matt created, so it
only works on the Matronics e-mail lists.
Kevin Horton
On 28-Oct-05, at 18:00 , Richard Tasker wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
> <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Correct!
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> N1deltawhiskey@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>>
>> OK, getting a little education here. One other question - is this
>> common
>> with other servers, just Matronics, and how widespread is the use
>> of that
>> function.
>>
>> If I am understanding correctly, this message will not be archived
>> with
>> inclusion of the phrase below. Correct?
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 27-Oct-05 12:55:42 Pacific Standard Time,
>> retasker@optonline.net writes:
>> This could get to be a lot of storage so Matt (the
>> owner of said server) asks that when a message is sent that has no
>> particular historical or useful significance (like the name
>> calling and
>> other unseemly things that have been going on here lately) the
>> sender of
>> said message include "do not archive" somewhere in the message. This
>> triggers his mail software to NOT store it in the archives.
>>
>> The following is directly from the Matronics web site Q&A:
>> *
>> ******************************************
>> *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
>> *****************************************
>>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Morris "BigD"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Do Not Archive
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
> <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
> Doubtful that it would happen. A lot of good stuff would be lost as
> people
> forget to explicitly say "Archive". It's not the way the other
> 100,000,000,000,000 email discussion lists work, and Matt may not have
> control over how the software works, unless he wrote it.
>
> Dave Morris
>
> At 12:49 PM 10/28/2005, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 10/28/2005 12:20:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>>jerry@mc.net writes:
>>
>>This approach would allow for the cutesy and flip stuff to fall by the
>>wayside and no harm.
>>
>>Are you there Matt?
>>
>>Just my 2 cents ...
>>
>>Jerry Grimmonpre
>>
>>
>>I like it!
>>
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>Happy Skies,
>>
>>Old Bob
>>AKA
>>Bob Siegfried
>>Ancient Aviator
>>Stearman N3977A
>>Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>>630 985-8503
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
If the author forgets to say "Archive" and hits Send, it could still be
"Archived" by another reader who likes it and finds the note helpful and,
therefore, types "Archive".
Forgetfulness with this method is "fail safe" and doesn't clutter the
archives with tens or hundreds of notes with the same Subject Title but with
irrelevant content.
Another 2 cents worth ... also, sorry about sending the previous no added to
note ... an Oooops event!
Jerry Grimmonpre
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Do Not Archive
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
> <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
> Doubtful that it would happen. A lot of good stuff would be lost as
> people
> forget to explicitly say "Archive". It's not the way the other
> 100,000,000,000,000 email discussion lists work, and Matt may not have
> control over how the software works, unless he wrote it.
>
> Dave Morris
>
> At 12:49 PM 10/28/2005, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 10/28/2005 12:20:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>>jerry@mc.net writes:
>>
>>This approach would allow for the cutesy and flip stuff to fall by the
>>wayside and no harm.
>>
>>Are you there Matt?
>>
>>Just my 2 cents ...
>>
>>Jerry Grimmonpre
>>
>>
>>I like it!
>>
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>Happy Skies,
>>
>>Old Bob
>>AKA
>>Bob Siegfried
>>Ancient Aviator
>>Stearman N3977A
>>Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>>630 985-8503
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Do Not Archive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
But, many people don't read the instructions, and fall back on
habit. What do we do with the posts where people put "do not
archive" because they've missed the new process?
I guess the logic would be to archive a message that had "archive" in
it, unless it had a "do not archive".
I do like the idea though. The archives have way too much junk in
them, so perhaps the default should be to not archive.
Kevin
On 28-Oct-05, at 20:39 , Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre"
> <jerry@mc.net>
>
> If the author forgets to say "Archive" and hits Send, it could
> still be
> "Archived" by another reader who likes it and finds the note
> helpful and,
> therefore, types "Archive".
>
> Forgetfulness with this method is "fail safe" and doesn't clutter the
> archives with tens or hundreds of notes with the same Subject Title
> but with
> irrelevant content.
>
> Another 2 cents worth ... also, sorry about sending the previous no
> added to
> note ... an Oooops event!
>
> Jerry Grimmonpre
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Do Not Archive
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
>> <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>>
>> Doubtful that it would happen. A lot of good stuff would be lost as
>> people
>> forget to explicitly say "Archive". It's not the way the other
>> 100,000,000,000,000 email discussion lists work, and Matt may not
>> have
>> control over how the software works, unless he wrote it.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | [Please Read] The Do Not Archive Flag and List Behavior... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Once upon a long time ago I tried reversing the logic of the "do not
archive" flag, depending on members to add an "archive" to messages
that seemed archive worthy. The result was about 1 message a month
went into the archive; that's useless.
It seems to me that everyone is putting way too much power in this
DNA thing. The bottom line is that we all need to police ourselves
and do the right thing. If a message doesn't belong in the archive,
then use the DNA flag, otherwise, don't. Of far more concern to me
would be, for example, the complete quoting of the Daily Digest in a
reply message with one or two comments added to a message with 20 or
30 completely unrelated messages.
The DNA flag is a lot like the police. Yeah, they are there and
generally you might be able to find one if you need them, but the
fact is most of the time we're just suppose to do the right thing on
our own without having to be constantly monitored.
There has been a lot of "discussion" lately about
who-said-what-about-whom, and a whole lot of other words that
probably should have best been kept out of the List. The point is,
that this List is about Aircraft Electrical discussions and Bob N.
does a great job of monitoring this forum and providing great insight
and assistance. I felt bad to see all of the personal attacks flying
back and forth the last week or so on this List. We are all here to
learn and share *personal experience* with regard to the given
topic. I urge everyone here to please double check your compositions
before clicking on that send button. Composing a message that makes
one's point, yet doesn't offend isn't rocket science, and we are
quite capable of this level of respect for one another.
Please follow the simple and useful List Usage Guidelines while
participating in discussions here. They were crafted and posted
monthly for a reason, and following them will yield an environment
that is both productive and inviting.
Thanks for listening and being a part of this great forum.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 27
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| Subject: | Copper versus Copper Clad Aluminum |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:45 AM 10/28/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry E. James" <larry@ncproto.com>
>
>Hi all,
>I asked this a few days ago and there were no answers
>other than a nice reply and following samples from Eric
>Jones (thank you Eric :-).
>"I just caught the thread on fatwire and looked at the
>website. At first take this looks great. What
>insulation is being used ?? I read that 4awg wire has
>the same performance as 2awg wire ..... does this mean I
>could replace my planned 2awg runs (2) from battery in
>baggage to engine starter with CCA 4awg ??"
No . . . unless someone has abandoned the meaning of
AWG wire sizing. There have been various conventions
adopted over the years for handling small variables
in wire sizing. A stranded wire having the same electrical
cross section as a solid wire will have a slightly larger
diameter. When speaking of 22AWG wire, is it more important
to have it be consistent with other 22AWG wires for
size or electrical resistance?
The wire tables I publish have data taken from stranded
AWG sized copper wires and are right out of the Mil-STD's
for wire. If you compare these values with varous publications
over the past 100 years, you'll find some variability
in dimensions and resistances but only by a few percent.
For our purposes of wiring airplanes with predictable
electrical performance, resistance of the wire (i.e.
heat rejection per foot for the same current) is the
key factor. The CCA wire is higher in resistance than
pure copper so crafting a wire with performance equal
to copper 2AWG wire will produce a conductor with a
larger cross section but still lighter in weight.
>I know this isn't as interesting as the commotion about
>IR regulators but it sure is worthwhile. This wire is
>much lighter in weight and seems to be a great thing for
>our aircraft. So I'm asking people that know more about
>this than I (easy in this case) ..... what are the
>caveats, if any, to my using 4awg Fatwire instead of
>2awg Mil-Spec (copper) wire for my power and ground runs
>from the battery located aft of the baggage compartment
>forward to the main buss and starter ???
If weight is your critical parameter, then CCA conductors
of the same performance as the 2AWG copper will be lighter
but also larger in diameter. Certainly 4AWG equivalent CCA
will be equal in conductivity to 4AWG copper and therefore
a wash for performance. Obviously, this wire is not a
substitute for 2AWG copper or 2AWG equivalent CCA.
Bob . . .
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: fatwire again |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
(Re-sent. First one seems to have gotten lost)
Hi Larry,
From what I got reading the web site, the the Super-2-CCA exceeds
capacity of 2 awg copper, and the Super-4-CCA exceeds the capcacity of
4 awg copper. I didn't see anything that would lead me to believe I
could replace 2 awg copper with Super-4-CCA.
Bob W.
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:45:50 -0700
"Larry E. James" <larry@ncproto.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry E. James" <larry@ncproto.com>
>
> Hi all,
> I asked this a few days ago and there were no answers
> other than a nice reply and following samples from Eric
> Jones (thank you Eric :-).
> "I just caught the thread on fatwire and looked at the
> website. At first take this looks great. What
> insulation is being used ?? I read that 4awg wire has
> the same performance as 2awg wire ..... does this mean I
> could replace my planned 2awg runs (2) from battery in
> baggage to engine starter with CCA 4awg ??"
> I know this isn't as interesting as the commotion about
> IR regulators but it sure is worthwhile. This wire is
> much lighter in weight and seems to be a great thing for
> our aircraft. So I'm asking people that know more about
> this than I (easy in this case) ..... what are the
> caveats, if any, to my using 4awg Fatwire instead of
> 2awg Mil-Spec (copper) wire for my power and ground runs
> from the battery located aft of the baggage compartment
> forward to the main buss and starter ???
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (projected engine start in November)
Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 29
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| Subject: | Figure Z-11 Generic Light Aircraft |
Electrical System
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Electrical System
At 10:08 AM 10/28/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
>
>This brings up several elementary questions for me...
>
>Does the 6-inch "rule" apply to the distance between the source and the
>fuse/breaker, or between the fuse/breaker and the load?
It was applied to wires that have no circuit protection either
breaker or fuse. For example, we once considered installing some
spike traps and noise filters directly on the bus behind the
breaker panel of some Cessna models about 1968. The debate was
whether or not there was value or a necessity of protecting the
wires that fed these devices. That's the first time I saw the
6" rule envoked.
>Some hypothetical:
>
>Assume a 24" wire directly from a battery, through a switch, to a landing
>light. Where should this wire be protected?
Depends on how much smoke you're willing to tolerate. Keep in
mind that fuses and breakers (1) protect wires and (2) keep faults
from propagating to other systems. The common convention is to
provide circuit protection for EVERY feeder as close as practical
to the feed end of the wire . . . which means right at the bus.
>Assume a 24" wire directly from a battery, through a switch, to a master bus
>(no contactor). Where should this wire be protected?
At the feed end of the wire . . . at the battery.
>What determines the break-point at which a "power switch" is no longer
>adequate and a contactor should be used?
Convenience. The TriPacer in which I received instruction had NO
contactors. The battery master was a fat switch on the seat support
rail under the passenger side seat. The starter switch was a fat
push button rated for starter currents right under the pilot's
seat. Assuming this arrangement is not attractive to you for your
project, then the cranking path LOCAL control devices need replaced
with control devices suited for REMOTE control. Enter things like
relays and contactors.
>On the "Z" drawings, I notice that downsized wire fusible links are
>sometimes used. Is there a reason why a fuse or breaker would not be used
>there?
Nope, a fuse or breaker is ALWAYS suitable for circuit protection
wherever protections is called for. Check out
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/fuselink/fuselink.html
Fusible links have some utility in most vehicles. Cars have used
them for years. I suggested they might be applicable to limited
usages as described in the Z-figures. Fusible links are not a general
replacement for fuses or breakers.
Bob . . .
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Master Relay Mount |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 03:07 PM 10/28/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2@hotmail.com>
>
>I have noticed my master relay has plastic boots covering the mounting
>flanges. Most master relays are metal mounting brackets. Is this going to
>cause any problems? It means the casing is not grounded.
Do you know the part number and manufacture's name for
these parts? It would be interesting to check the catalog
listings to see how the booties are pitched. I cannot
imagine why they are present on your parts.
Bob . . .
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