Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:15 AM - The DC ADIZ NPRM (alan@reichertech.com)
3. 04:20 AM - Re: help the non-believers (Peter Laurence)
4. 05:34 AM - Re: help the non-believers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:10 AM - Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:51 AM - Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries (Mickey Coggins)
7. 08:26 AM - Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries (Earl_Schroeder)
8. 10:33 AM - Re: Z-19 Layout HelpZ-19 Layout HelpZ-19 Layout Help (John Burnaby)
9. 02:13 PM - Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 03:32 PM - 28V Turn & Bank (Ron)
11. 04:29 PM - Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries (John Huft)
12. 06:17 PM - Re: 28V Turn & Bank (Ken)
Message 1
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| Subject: | "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?", and this is
certainly a valid question. Here are just a few examples of what
your direct List support enables. It provides for the very
expensive, business-class, high-speed T1 Internet connection used on
the List, insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when
accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and
software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for
services such as the Archive Search Engine and List Browser. It pays
for 16+ years worth of online archive data available for instant
random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing,
developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this
List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and PhotoShare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where
you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is
free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM,
and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make
all those statements about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable
aspects of this most valuable List service. Please support it today
with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can
make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | The DC ADIZ NPRM |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com
Hello, All!
Please pardon this intrusion. This note is not specific to your
particular list, but regardless of what you are building, restoring, or
flying, an issue exists that could potentially affect all of you who fly
in the United States. That issue is the Washington DC ADIZ.
This ADIZ was put into effect as a temporary protective measure for
Washington DC airspace after 9/11. There is now an NPRM out to make this
airspace *permanent*.
The original comment period for this NPRM expired yesterday, November 2.
However, the FAA has now extended the comment period for another 90 days,
so if you did not get your comments in, HERE IS YOUR CHANCE!
Information on the ADIZ, and why we are fighting it, can be found here:
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/
I live underneath the current DC ADIZ, so I get to play with this every
time I fly. The AOPA page above gives a good summary of what has happened
in this area since it's inception.
Help on formulating comments for this NPRM can be found here:
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/help.html
Comments on this NPRM can be submitted (online) to the DOT here:
http://dms.dot.gov/submit/
Instructions on how to navigate and fill out the DOT page to submit your
comments are available here:
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/faa_help.html
There are over 18000 comments against this NPRM at this time. If yours is
not one of them, please take the time now to submit your comments; every
one helps. If this ADIZ becomes permanent, then there could be an ADIZ
coming to an airspace near you in the future!
I thank Matt for allowing me to send this to you. Even if you don't live
near the DC area, please do what you can to protect your flying
priviledges... submit your comments!
Regards,
-- Alan Reichert
C-182 Driver/RV-8 Builder
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | help the non-believers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" <PLaurence@the-beach.net>
conduit)
I was tempted . . . but getting involved in lots of different
forums that soaked up so many hours of not-so-spare time. I think
I'll pass on this one! There are probably dozens of forums that
propagate poor science . . . can't help them all.
Bob . . .
I suggest you get off the other forums and spend all you time on this one!
After all, this list is the bomb!
Peter
Message 4
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| Subject: | help the non-believers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:20 AM 11/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence"
><PLaurence@the-beach.net>
>
>
>conduit)
>
> I was tempted . . . but getting involved in lots of different
> forums that soaked up so many hours of not-so-spare time. I think
> I'll pass on this one! There are probably dozens of forums that
> propagate poor science . . . can't help them all.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>I suggest you get off the other forums and spend all you time on this one!
>After all, this list is the bomb!
I don't presently participate on any other forums . . . I
did once and the task grew to the point where I was
sifting 200-300 emails a day for electrical issues.
The task was more complicated when the same discussion
was being cross-posted on several lists.
Matt set up the AeroElectric-List several years ago
to help minimize the no-value-added efforts. I dropped
all other forum subscriptions at that time. Hence
my reluctance to get involved on any other forum
irrespective of what's going on. I depend on your
participation in airframe specific lists to suggest
that folks bring their electrical/avionics issues here.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Good morning,
One of my clients has cited your webpage at . . .
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm
. . . where you state:
"There is another class of chargers that is designed
specifically to maintain the battery in a high state
of charge. These chargers, such as the 1.25 amp
Battery Tender from Deltran are not capable of charging
a deeply discharged ODYSSEY battery. This is due to
the fact that these chargers have very low output power.
They should only be used either to continuously
compensate for parasitic losses or to maintain a trickle
charge on a fully charged stored battery."
I've searched my sources on lead-acid battery technologies
and found no references to charging efficiencies
base on charging rate. While the small chargers cited
are limited in their power output, my present sense is that
this only extends the time required for a given battery
to reach full charge.
Your webpage implies that an Odyssey battery can only
be efficiently charged if the re-charge time is on the
order of 2 hours.
Can you enlighten me on the supporting physics of
your assertions? I do a lot of work with batteries
in the aircraft industries and I'm often called upon to
offer advice on battery operation and maintenance.
If there's an important point of physics in battery operation
that I'm unaware of, I'd be very pleased if you could
point me in the right direction for acquiring that
knowledge.
Regards,
Bob Nuckolls
AeroElectric Connection
Wichita, KS
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
I'm *very* interested in what you get back from them!
> ...
> Can you enlighten me on the supporting physics of
> your assertions? I do a lot of work with batteries
> in the aircraft industries and I'm often called upon to
> offer advice on battery operation and maintenance.
> If there's an important point of physics in battery operation
> that I'm unaware of, I'd be very pleased if you could
> point me in the right direction for acquiring that
> knowledge.
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
As a happy user of the battery type in question, I'll be watching
closely too. Earl
Do not archive.
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>I'm *very* interested in what you get back from them!
>
>
>
>>...
>> Can you enlighten me on the supporting physics of
>> your assertions? I do a lot of work with batteries
>> in the aircraft industries and I'm often called upon to
>> offer advice on battery operation and maintenance.
>> If there's an important point of physics in battery operation
>> that I'm unaware of, I'd be very pleased if you could
>> point me in the right direction for acquiring that
>> knowledge.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Z-19 Layout HelpZ-19 Layout HelpZ-19 Layout Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impulse.net>
Frank,
I have been considering fuel systems for sometime now and yours was one of the
versions considered.
I have a problem with the way yours works because eventually, when you run one
tank dry, you will have given up fuel pump redundancy. You can work around this
by having a policy (placard) about leaving a mandatory minimum amount of fuel
in a tank when switching, but it's still left up to the pilot. I would just
not be able to live with myself if I unwillingly became a glider pilot, with an
L/D of car keys, because of a dead fuel pump on the one tank that had gas.
58 years of suffering humiliating consequences from thinking that I am smarter
than the average bear (and bears are not that smart) , I want a fuel system that
is idiot-proof and that means both fuel pumps available to pump the last drop
of fuel that I think is in the tanks.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey |
batteries
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
batteries
At 10:25 AM 11/4/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder
><Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
>
>As a happy user of the battery type in question, I'll be watching
>closely too. Earl
>Do not archive.
>
>Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
> <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> >
> >I'm *very* interested in what you get back from them!
I'm not holding my breath. These folks are dealers. They
buy their batteries from Enersys . . .
( http://www.enersysreservepower.com/ )
. . . and I'll bet a dollar to a donut that folks who wrote up
that webpage have never consulted with the enersys/hawker/odyssey
engineers.
I published a link and commentary on a kerfuffle with Deltran
and Battery Tenders with respect to Odyssey batteries. Deltran
had their shorts in a bunch because of the way Odyssey was
rating their batteries . . . and may well have been torqued about
some perceived disrespect on the part of Odyssey concerning
the ability of a Battery Tender to adequately charge an
Odyssey battery.
Bottom line is that no mater who makes the lead-acid battery
and no matter what special processes they bring to the
manufacturing table, rapid recharging for short cycle use
(like airplanes) works good at 14.2 plus or minus 0.2 at the
bus. Recharging when time is not important, 13.8 plus or
minus 0.2 will yield slightly longer battery life and the
battery is not seriously stressed by the constant "charge"
voltage levels.
For optimum storage of a charged battery, the 13.1 plus
or minus 0.1 is the way to keep a fully charged battery from
self discharging. Some folks have suggested that some
lead-acid batteries will benefit greatly and/or be severely
abused when subjected to operating philosophies optimized for
other forms of lead-acid battery.
In a couple of years of spending lots of RAC's
money figuring out why batteries were dying short
of expectations, nobody at Concord or Enersys/Hawker/Odyssey
even suggested that their products would benefit from
any kind of special treatment that would not have been
equally beneficial to an Sears flooded battery in
my car.
I note that Deltran pulled the page that was
whacking Odyssey last spring. I'd like to believe it was
due at least in part to my posting on aeroelectric.com
If you google on 'odyssey' and 'deltran' the #2
article on the search is the one I wrote calling Deltran's
logic into question. Deltran offered no science or common
sense in support of their position . . . and I don't expect
any better from this Odyssey dealer.
Bottom line is that until we're provided with science
to the contrary, Odyssey's batteries are not a special
case for maintenance in the world of portable power
storage.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com>
Would it be possible to convert a 28V instrument to run on 12V, If so what
will it involve?
Thanks
[]
Ron Triano
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended chargers for Odyssey batteries |
version=3.0.3
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Huft <aflyer@lazy8.net>
Recently, I hooked up a Deltran charger (the junior, 0.75 Amp) to my
wife's car, as I did all last winter. This time however, I left the hood
open, with the underhood light on. The light draws more than the charger
can source, so, when I returned a week later, the battery was dead. No
surprising.
The surprise, though, was that the charger was also dead. I took it
apart, and saw that the output transistor, attached to a large heatsink,
was a TO-220 package. There was no sign of an internal fuse (there is
one in the battery lead, which was still good), so I assume there is a
solid state type current limit circuit in the base of the output
transistors. Having designed these circuits (I am assuming that it is
not a crowbar type, but just a cheapo limiter), I know that they work
well for momentary shorts, but if the short persists, the output
transistor has to dissipate the rated current (.75A) times the voltage
(14) totaling 10.5 Watts. The TO-220 package is usually a 5 Watt deal
even with the heatsink, so I am thinking that is what killed the
charger. I confess I have not tested anything...just returned the charger.
Similarly, I would think a completely dead battery would present the
same situation to the charger. So, I am thinking maybe the problem is
not related to the battery at all, but rather to the charger????????
John Huft
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 28V Turn & Bank |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Have you tried it? I have one that seems to run just fine on 12 volts.
Slightly lower rpm and the current is not much different either.
Ken
Ron wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com>
>
>Would it be possible to convert a 28V instrument to run on 12V, If so what
>will it involve?
>Thanks
>[]
>Ron Triano
>
>
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