AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 11/13/05


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 08:25 AM - Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time (923te)
     2. 08:54 AM - test (Bob McCallum)
     3. 09:32 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 (David Lloyd)
     4. 09:39 AM - Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 (Dj Merrill)
     6. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 (Dan Beadle)
     7. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 (David Lloyd)
     8. 01:25 PM - Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time ()
     9. 01:49 PM - Cellphone-aviation Headset Interface (Joe Dubner)
    10. 05:45 PM - Re: Cellphone-aviation Headset Interface (David Lloyd)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 08:25:36 AM PST US
    From: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net> See http://members.cox.net/bob.nuckolls/strtctr.pdf for an explanation of how modern two-stage starter solenoids place an extraordinarily high stress on starter switches. See: http://members.cox.net/bob.nuckolls/StarterWiring.pdf for three variations on a theme for energizing the modern starter solenoid. My personal recommendation would be for the architecture described in the z-figures using a B&C S702-1 starter contactor with the spike catcher diode built in. Other contactors are suitable but need an external diode (1N5000 series . . . from Radio Shack. About $1 each in packages of 2). Hi Bob, Thanks for the help. In your 3 variations I think that: 1) is like the Skytec diagram shows for experimentals (see link below) Take out the Skytec jumper 2) is like the factory did on my certified Tiger. Leaving the skytec jumer in 3) Looks like using the S702-1 starter contactor and breaking the battery to starter connection and taek out Skytec jumper. Which I am thinking is what yo are saying you would do on your aircraft?? Figure Z22 I think shows yet another variation doesn't it? It shows taking out the Skytec jumper, connecting the battery straight to the Skytec solenoid and tehn putting a S704-1 20 amp relay where the Skytec jumper was. Seems like the S704-1 in figure Z22 would have a higher contact life because the contacts would only see control amperage instead of starter amperage. So perhaps it would be more reliable in teh long run? Is this true? Thanks, Ned Skytec diagram for experimentals: http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm same as Z-22


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:54:59 AM PST US
    From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: test
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> test (no postings ?) do not archive Bob McC


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:32:40 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net> Michael, I downloaded the Beta version and when I clicked the desktop icon it came up with a "license error" message. Is there a license for the Beta version?? D ----- Original Message ----- From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server" <aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of > the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2005-11-12.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2005-11-12.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 11/12/05: 5 > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:29 AM - epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) (Michael Crowder) > 2. 08:04 AM - Wiring Skytec, one more time (923te) > 3. 09:09 AM - Re: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) (Dan Beadle) > 4. 11:27 AM - Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time (Robert L. Nuckolls, > III) > 5. 11:42 AM - Highlight One (Matt Dralle) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:29:10 AM PST US > From: "Michael Crowder" <sonex293@nc.rr.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael Crowder" > <sonex293@nc.rr.com> > > For another option, I've been playing around with XPanel5000 available at > http://www.xpanelsoftware.com <http://www.xpanelsoftware.com/> . Haven't > seen anyone mention the software here. It's currently in beta testing and > the software is available in the download section. The author hasn't said > how much the final version is going to cost, but I'm having fun designing > different panels for my project. I've been able to add instruments not in > the current inventory, and I've even updated the panel outline to match > what > I'm planning. There is a web based version, but I've found > epanelbuilder.com to be much faster to use. The last site update changed > the release date from Nov 05 to April 06, probably a Sun-N-Fun release. > > > Just thought I would pass this info along to fellow builders. > > > --Michael Crowder > > Sonex #293 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:04:23 AM PST US > From: "923te" <923te@cox.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Skytec, one more time > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net> > > I've searched the archives and still am a bit confused as to the best way > to wire > the Skytec. > > Skytec suggests separating the S-Lead from the Battery lead of the > starter's solenoid > and wiring from the start switch direct to the S Lead leaving the Starter > solenoid directly connected to the battery per link: > > http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm > > Seems like this would effectively be the same as Z-22 with the > simplification of > one less contactor / solenoid. > > What am I missing? No diode protection? > > Sure appreciate any help here. > > Thanks, > Ned > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:09:25 AM PST US > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) > From: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" > <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com> > > This is really pretty cool - do you know what they are going to charge > for the real version? Right now, it is fully functional and free (thru > 4/1 next year). Looks like I might design my panel before then. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Crowder > Subject: AeroElectric-List: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael Crowder" > <sonex293@nc.rr.com> > > For another option, I've been playing around with XPanel5000 available > at > http://www.xpanelsoftware.com <http://www.xpanelsoftware.com/> . > Haven't > seen anyone mention the software here. It's currently in beta testing > and > the software is available in the download section. The author hasn't > said > how much the final version is going to cost, but I'm having fun > designing > different panels for my project. I've been able to add instruments not > in > the current inventory, and I've even updated the panel outline to match > what > I'm planning. There is a web based version, but I've found > epanelbuilder.com to be much faster to use. The last site update > changed > the release date from Nov 05 to April 06, probably a Sun-N-Fun release. > > > Just thought I would pass this info along to fellow builders. > > > --Michael Crowder > > Sonex #293 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:27:30 AM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Skytec, one more time > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 10:03 AM 11/12/2005 -0600, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net> >> >>I've searched the archives and still am a bit confused as to the best way >>to wire the Skytec. >> >>Skytec suggests separating the S-Lead from the Battery lead of the >>starter's solenoid and wiring from the start switch direct to the S Lead >>leaving the Starter solenoid directly connected to the battery per link: >> >>http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm >> >>Seems like this would effectively be the same as Z-22 with the >>simplification of one less contactor / solenoid. >> >>What am I missing? No diode protection? >> >>Sure appreciate any help here. > > See http://members.cox.net/bob.nuckolls/strtctr.pdf > > for an explanation of how modern two-stage starter solenoids > place an extraordinarily high stress on starter switches. See: > > http://members.cox.net/bob.nuckolls/StarterWiring.pdf > > for three variations on a theme for energizing the modern > starter solenoid. My personal recommendation would be for > the architecture described in the z-figures using a B&C > S702-1 starter contactor with the spike catcher diode built > in. Other contactors are suitable but need an external diode > (1N5000 series . . . from Radio Shack. About $1 each in packages > of 2). > > The above links are temporary . . . my website in San Diego > is down (as are all others on that server). I got word > from my newly acquired net-guru that our new server site is > up and running. > > I'll be transferring aeroelectric.com to the new hardware in Andover > KS over the next week or so. When all the testing is finished, > we'll register the new IP address with the world and the > 'Connection will be completely self sustaining. The really neat > thing is that my server is located in the basement of the > tech-support guy . . . I'm hoping for aero outages due to changes > on other folks sites and tightly coupled service when my > machine needs it! > > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:42:19 AM PST US > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Highlight One > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > <dralle@matronics.com> > > > Dear Listers, > > Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and > upgrade of the Email List Forums at Matronics. There is no > commercial advertising on any of the Lists to support their > operation, and it is solely YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS that keeps these Lists > up and running. Please take a second to make your Contribution today > at the secure website: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > Over the next few days I will be highlighting each one of the awesome > Free Gifts available along with this year's List Fund Raiser. In > most cases, these gifts have been either donated or provided at > exceptional discounts by aviation vendors that participate regularly > on these vary same Lists. I want to thank each of them for the > generous support of the Lists during this Fund Raiser. Please show > your support for their efforts by visiting their respective web sites. > > Thank you for your kind support! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ------------------------------------------- > Gift Highlight Number One - List Archive CD > ------------------------------------------- > > With your $50 or greater Contribution, you can register to receive a > free copy of the Matronics Email List Archive CDROM. This CD > contains well over 500MB of List Archive data! Archives for each > List are available on the CD and each date back to the respective > List's inception. Also included is a copy of BF Gibbion's List > Search Engine along with a pre-compiled index for each > List. Archives are stored on the CD in standard ASCII Text format > and you can use any number of other programs to view and modify the > data according to your personal preferences. This is a great > resource that everyone that's ever been subscribed to a Matronics > List should have in their library! The CD will be created with > archives current as of December 1 of 2005. To receive your copy, > head over to the List Contribution Web site: > > > do not archive > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:39:08 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> > >Hi Bob, > >Thanks for the help. > >In your 3 variations I think that: > >1) is like the Skytec diagram shows for experimentals (see link below) >Take out the Skytec jumper Yup, this is what they do in cars. Chews up contacts on key-start switches (assuming they've not installed catch diodes which will at least mitigate switch interrupt stresses . . . won't help the closure stresses. >2) is like the factory did on my certified Tiger. Leaving the skytec jumer in Yes. Most if not all certified ships already had starter contactors when Skytec got their STCs. Was easier to simply have their new starter emulate the old starter. >3) Looks like using the S702-1 starter contactor and breaking the battery >to starter connection and taek out Skytec jumper. Which I am thinking is >what yo are saying you would do on your aircraft?? Yes. >Figure Z22 I think shows yet another variation doesn't it? It shows taking >out the Skytec jumper, connecting the battery straight to the Skytec >solenoid and tehn putting a S704-1 20 amp relay where the Skytec jumper was. Yes. This diagram was made to accommodate a bunch of folks who built their airplanes not planning to use an external contactor. After a variety of starter issues were identified, it was easier to add the S704-1 boost relay and leave the hard connection between starter's built in contactor and the switched side of battery contactor. This is not recommended for new design. >Seems like the S704-1 in figure Z22 would have a higher contact life >because the contacts would only see control amperage instead of starter >amperage. So perhaps it would be more reliable in teh long run? Reliability? I presume you're talking about service life. I don't think there's a good reason to pick one architecture over any other architecture as long as you AVOID running the built in starter coil currents through the cockpit STARTER ENGAGE switch. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:52:06 AM PST US
    From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> David Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net> > > Michael, > I downloaded the Beta version and when I clicked the desktop icon it came up > with a "license error" message. Is there a license for the Beta version?? > D Yes, on that same download page, there should have been a link above it for a file that gives a license until 01 Jan 2006. After that, I think you have to pay for it. -Dj -- Dj Merrill Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:28:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05
    From: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com> You have to download a separate license file from their download page. Not well documented. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lloyd Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net> Michael, I downloaded the Beta version and when I clicked the desktop icon it came up with a "license error" message. Is there a license for the Beta version?? D ----- Original Message ----- From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server" <aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com> <aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of > the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-Li st.2005-11-12.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-Li st.2005-11-12.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 11/12/05: 5 > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:29 AM - epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) (Michael Crowder) > 2. 08:04 AM - Wiring Skytec, one more time (923te) > 3. 09:09 AM - Re: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) (Dan Beadle) > 4. 11:27 AM - Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time (Robert L. Nuckolls, > III) > 5. 11:42 AM - Highlight One (Matt Dralle) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:29:10 AM PST US > From: "Michael Crowder" <sonex293@nc.rr.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael Crowder" > <sonex293@nc.rr.com> > > For another option, I've been playing around with XPanel5000 available at > http://www.xpanelsoftware.com <http://www.xpanelsoftware.com/> . Haven't > seen anyone mention the software here. It's currently in beta testing and > the software is available in the download section. The author hasn't said > how much the final version is going to cost, but I'm having fun designing > different panels for my project. I've been able to add instruments not in > the current inventory, and I've even updated the panel outline to match > what > I'm planning. There is a web based version, but I've found > epanelbuilder.com to be much faster to use. The last site update changed > the release date from Nov 05 to April 06, probably a Sun-N-Fun release. > > > Just thought I would pass this info along to fellow builders. > > > --Michael Crowder > > Sonex #293 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:04:23 AM PST US > From: "923te" <923te@cox.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Skytec, one more time > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net> > > I've searched the archives and still am a bit confused as to the best way > to wire > the Skytec. > > Skytec suggests separating the S-Lead from the Battery lead of the > starter's solenoid > and wiring from the start switch direct to the S Lead leaving the Starter > solenoid directly connected to the battery per link: > > http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm > > Seems like this would effectively be the same as Z-22 with the > simplification of > one less contactor / solenoid. > > What am I missing? No diode protection? > > Sure appreciate any help here. > > Thanks, > Ned > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:09:25 AM PST US > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) > From: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" > <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com> > > This is really pretty cool - do you know what they are going to charge > for the real version? Right now, it is fully functional and free (thru > 4/1 next year). Looks like I might design my panel before then. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Crowder > Subject: AeroElectric-List: epanelbuilder (Xpanel5000) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael Crowder" > <sonex293@nc.rr.com> > > For another option, I've been playing around with XPanel5000 available > at > http://www.xpanelsoftware.com <http://www.xpanelsoftware.com/> . > Haven't > seen anyone mention the software here. It's currently in beta testing > and > the software is available in the download section. The author hasn't > said > how much the final version is going to cost, but I'm having fun > designing > different panels for my project. I've been able to add instruments not > in > the current inventory, and I've even updated the panel outline to match > what > I'm planning. There is a web based version, but I've found > epanelbuilder.com to be much faster to use. The last site update > changed > the release date from Nov 05 to April 06, probably a Sun-N-Fun release. > > > Just thought I would pass this info along to fellow builders. > > > --Michael Crowder > > Sonex #293 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:27:30 AM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Skytec, one more time > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 10:03 AM 11/12/2005 -0600, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net> >> >>I've searched the archives and still am a bit confused as to the best way >>to wire the Skytec. >> >>Skytec suggests separating the S-Lead from the Battery lead of the >>starter's solenoid and wiring from the start switch direct to the S Lead >>leaving the Starter solenoid directly connected to the battery per link: >> >>http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm >> >>Seems like this would effectively be the same as Z-22 with the >>simplification of one less contactor / solenoid. >> >>What am I missing? No diode protection? >> >>Sure appreciate any help here. > > See http://members.cox.net/bob.nuckolls/strtctr.pdf > > for an explanation of how modern two-stage starter solenoids > place an extraordinarily high stress on starter switches. See: > > http://members.cox.net/bob.nuckolls/StarterWiring.pdf > > for three variations on a theme for energizing the modern > starter solenoid. My personal recommendation would be for > the architecture described in the z-figures using a B&C > S702-1 starter contactor with the spike catcher diode built > in. Other contactors are suitable but need an external diode > (1N5000 series . . . from Radio Shack. About $1 each in packages > of 2). > > The above links are temporary . . . my website in San Diego > is down (as are all others on that server). I got word > from my newly acquired net-guru that our new server site is > up and running. > > I'll be transferring aeroelectric.com to the new hardware in Andover > KS over the next week or so. When all the testing is finished, > we'll register the new IP address with the world and the > 'Connection will be completely self sustaining. The really neat > thing is that my server is located in the basement of the > tech-support guy . . . I'm hoping for aero outages due to changes > on other folks sites and tightly coupled service when my > machine needs it! > > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:42:19 AM PST US > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Highlight One > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > <dralle@matronics.com> > > > Dear Listers, > > Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and > upgrade of the Email List Forums at Matronics. There is no > commercial advertising on any of the Lists to support their > operation, and it is solely YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS that keeps these Lists > up and running. Please take a second to make your Contribution today > at the secure website: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > Over the next few days I will be highlighting each one of the awesome > Free Gifts available along with this year's List Fund Raiser. In > most cases, these gifts have been either donated or provided at > exceptional discounts by aviation vendors that participate regularly > on these vary same Lists. I want to thank each of them for the > generous support of the Lists during this Fund Raiser. Please show > your support for their efforts by visiting their respective web sites. > > Thank you for your kind support! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ------------------------------------------- > Gift Highlight Number One - List Archive CD > ------------------------------------------- > > With your $50 or greater Contribution, you can register to receive a > free copy of the Matronics Email List Archive CDROM. This CD > contains well over 500MB of List Archive data! Archives for each > List are available on the CD and each date back to the respective > List's inception. Also included is a copy of BF Gibbion's List > Search Engine along with a pre-compiled index for each > List. Archives are stored on the CD in standard ASCII Text format > and you can use any number of other programs to view and modify the > data according to your personal preferences. This is a great > resource that everyone that's ever been subscribed to a Matronics > List should have in their library! The CD will be created with > archives current as of December 1 of 2005. To receive your copy, > head over to the List Contribution Web site: > > > do not archive > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:37:07 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net> Thanks Dj..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj Merrill" <deej@deej.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/12/05 > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> > > David Lloyd wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" >> <skywagon@charter.net> >> >> Michael, >> I downloaded the Beta version and when I clicked the desktop icon it came >> up >> with a "license error" message. Is there a license for the Beta >> version?? >> D > > Yes, on that same download page, there should have been > a link above it for a file that gives a license until > 01 Jan 2006. After that, I think you have to pay for it. > > -Dj > > -- > Dj Merrill > Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 > > "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation" > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:25:17 PM PST US
    From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Wiring Skytec, one more time
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com> Ned: The title of the Skytec page is Helicopter Do's and Don't. On that page it talks about certified and experimental aircraft. I understand why you are confused, but these are apples and oranges. We tend to wire our homebuilt's like a certified plane. There are pros and cons but don't mix and match. Certified Helicopters wire the starter like they show at the bottom of the page, under experimental aircraft, which is confusing. The punch line is stay with the Z-dwg or certified wiring. I'll explain the history and why. SkyTec is not suggesting but only showing an alternative wiring scheme. It is a valid method of wiring and has advantages of less weight, cost and big wire connections. Now why do we have two starter relays. Why add a starter relay on firewall when the starter already has it's own? In the past aircraft starters did not have their own on-board starter relay at all, and a starter relay was needed and typically mounted remotely on the firewall. The new style skytec starters (like car starters) have their own relay on board, so they really so not need a separate starter relay. However they will work just fine with a separate relay. In aircraft traditionally we used a separate starter relay on the firewall. With a Skytec, which has it's own relay, we ARE double dipping by adding an extra relay. We could in theory leave the firewall relay off. HOWEVER it is a good idea to keep using the starter relay. With the firewall relay we don't have the starter wire (BIG-OLE-WIRE) hot all the time. IT is hot only when we are cranking. If you leave the firewall relay off the wire to the starter is hot all the time in flight. In cars the wire to the starter is HOT all the time, even when parked, because it is wired direct to the battery. The advantage is leaving off big relays. Makes sense for cars (and may be also for airplanes?). If you want to wire your plane per the Z drawing do that, diodes and all. Forget the Helicopter or Experimental wiring skytec shows altogether. Forget it has it's own relay and just wire it with a jumper as they show, no diode is needed on the starter or jumper. You could add one to make you happy, but it is not needed. LETS SAY you decide to leave off the firewall starter relay than put a clamping diode on the starter as they show. This WILL save weight and cost. HOWEVER remember the main draw back, the BIG wire going to the starter is always HOT or hot with the battery master relay ON. I tend to go with the certified wiring / Z dwg for safety. However certified helicopters do not use a separate firewall start relay with the skytec starter. However the idea of saving weight and cost is attractive. We could even save more weight and cost and leave the MASTER relay off!! (see next par.) HERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE IDEA, food for thought. Has anyone touched the master relay after it has been on for a minute or two. IT is HOT HOT HOT. It is using 0.5 to 0.8 amps of wasted power. YOU could leave it off. IF you leave the starter relay off and wire it direct to the battery you don't need a BIG starter relay. How? First we know we can leave the start relay off and wire it direct to the battery, just like a car. Albeit the wire will be hot all the time, even parked, as we mentioned, but people have no problem mounting batteries way in the back of their plane and running long big hot wires all around. NOW DO WE GET RID OF THE MASTER RELAY? Well it is easy. We only needed the BIG master relay because we ran the starter power demand thru it. We need 300-400 amps of capacity. With the starter directly wired to the battery we can get by with one or two small 40 amp AVIONICS relays in parrellel or what ever capacity relay it takes. Little relays are not the power hungry things that a big 400 amp MASTER relay is. JUST AN IDEA AND I AM NOT PERSONALY DOING IT. It is presented just for thought, Thinking out the Box or Paradigm as some would say. Overall the traditional wiring has been shown to work, albeit inefficient, heavy and complicated. However the Aeroelectric paradigm uses many CAR wiring concepts. Why not go all the way and wire your plane like a car. How many starter battery cables have ground out in cars, even though they are hot all the time? You could save several pounds, many big wire connections, $100 or more and simplify your wiring by doing the above, no big relay's. RELAY MOUNTING ORIENTATION REMEMBER to mount the firewall starter relay (if you have one) with the pointy end DOWN (metal cap), so that it is "PULLED" open (OFF) with positive G's. Mounted the other way positive G forces can overcome the electro-magnetic pull and engage the starter in flight. NOT GOOD. Do not mount the relays sideways because they will gall and fail. Also you mount the MASTER with the pointy end up, for the opposite reason. You don't want it being pulled open in flight due to G forces. George Ned wrote: From: "923te" <923te@cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Skytec, one more time I've searched the archives and still am a bit confused as to the best way to wire the Skytec. Skytec suggests separating the S-Lead from the Battery lead of the starter's solenoid and wiring from the start switch direct to the S Lead leaving the Starter solenoid directly connected to the battery per link: http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm Seems like this would effectively be the same as Z-22 with the simplification of one less contactor / solenoid. What am I missing? No diode protection? Sure appreciate any help here. Thanks, Ned ---------------------------------


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:49:39 PM PST US
    From: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Cellphone-aviation Headset Interface
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com> Has anyone seen a schematic diagram of or taken apart a cell phone-aviation headset interface? Specifically, what are they composed of (active circuits, isolation resistors, transformers, etc.)? How do they work? Reference: http://store.yahoo.com/pilotsupport/2000s.html or: http://www.anrheadsets.com/CellUpgrade.asp Thanks, Joe Joe Dubner 523 Cedar Avenue Lewiston, ID 83501 cell: (208) 305-2688 http://www.nicon.org/chapter328/jd/


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:45:11 PM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Cellphone-aviation Headset Interface
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net> Joe, I don't know the specifics of the interface but, they are relatively simple. Someone on the List will probably supply the details. But, here is something to think about that few are aware. The type of cell phone transmission greatly affects the interface design. TDMA, GSM, analog, etc. The older TDMA seems to work well. Unfortunately, most of the cell carriers have successfully convince most of us to move "upgrade" to the GSM transmission technique. For some reason, this form of transmission can create a lot of strange transmission pulse noise into the headset. The folks on the other end don't hear it, but, you with the headset on get abused. Moving the cell phone as far away as your arm allows or hand it to a back seat passenger helps lower the noise a lot. I have not heard of why this happens nor how to stop it. I believe the method of transmitting the packetized communications leaks back into the headphones directly or via the interface. Torrids attached to the headphone cables does not help. It will be great to hear from one of the List gurus that understand GSM and how it affects a poorly designed interface or poorly shielded headphone set.... This info comes from testing several types of ANR headsets. I have not tested a regular non-anr headset. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Dubner" <jdubner@yahoo.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cellphone-aviation Headset Interface > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com> > > Has anyone seen a schematic diagram of or taken apart a cell > phone-aviation headset interface? Specifically, what are they composed > of (active circuits, isolation resistors, transformers, etc.)? How do > they work? > > Reference: http://store.yahoo.com/pilotsupport/2000s.html > or: http://www.anrheadsets.com/CellUpgrade.asp > > Thanks, > Joe > > Joe Dubner > 523 Cedar Avenue > Lewiston, ID 83501 > cell: (208) 305-2688 > http://www.nicon.org/chapter328/jd/ > > >




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