---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/17/05: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:27 AM - Re: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay (sportav8r@aol.com) 3. 05:42 AM - Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT (MikeEasley@aol.com) 4. 05:55 AM - Re: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT (Bill Denton) 5. 06:19 AM - Re: Wig-wag wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:21 AM - Re: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT (William) 7. 07:08 AM - GPS IFR requirements () 8. 07:52 AM - Re: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay (rd2@evenlink.com) 9. 07:52 AM - Re: Avionics-List: GPS IFR requirements (Wayne Sweet) 10. 08:45 AM - Re: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay (Mickey Coggins) 11. 08:56 AM - Re: GPS IFR requirements (sportav8r@aol.com) 12. 09:46 AM - Sorry List, Wrong Address (Will N. Stevenson) 13. 10:10 AM - Re: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay (Frank) 14. 10:10 AM - Re: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT (John Schroeder) 15. 10:12 AM - Re: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT (John Schroeder) 16. 10:16 AM - GPS IFR requirements (Will N. Stevenson) 17. 10:57 AM - Thanks Bob; A Good Book (Will N. Stevenson) 18. 12:28 PM - Re: GPS IFR requirements (Glaeser, Dennis A) 19. 01:40 PM - Re: 12v Ipod...Need Vol Help (REAL PROBLEM IS) () 20. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: Magneto switch wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 02:07 PM - Re: (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 22. 02:23 PM - Re: GPS IFR requirements (Jon Goguen) 23. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: GPS IFR requirements (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 24. 03:33 PM - Re: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT (glong2) 25. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: Magneto switch wiring (Franz Fux) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:25 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a better experience than the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these Lists directly. I've been on a few other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their posts. This just can't happen with the Matronics Lists; each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the Archive Search times. Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header garbage that seems to build up in a typical email thread. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into well over 50 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 17,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over 32,000,000 (yes, that's 32 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service all without any advertising budget! I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! The Secure Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:19 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com I've encountered this, too. They're somehow pirating even the seller account/name for the listing. Never deal with anyone whose ad says "don't contact me at via ebay; use this private (usually hotmail) address." That's done to keep the real account owner unaware of the ad's existence. Unfortunately, some of the selling prices the scammers want are close enough to legit to be a great inducement without throwing up red flags. Always confirm the ad's legitimacy by communicating with the seller via ebay. Often they'll thank you for making them aware that someone is pirating their account (and feedback reputation to boot). -Stormy -----Original Message----- From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com There are some garmin gpsmap's 196/296/396 on ebay with constantly changing item numbers (the latest being item number 7197563352, but if already changed search on gps 296 or 396 or gpsmap 296or 396). The 296 is sold for $400 (!!) and the 396 (this is "buy it now" price) goes for $500. Garmin's sugg. retail for the 396 is around $2600 and the street price is ~$2500, hence the suspicion. Further research indicated that the items are coming from Europe, Romania. Garmin does not export the 396 to EU because sat. wx-radio and wx-weather is not available (not propagated) to EU. Further while the airports and navaids map, as well as terrain and obstructions data base and software can be upgraded, the basesemap (showing the geographic waypoints on the ground) cannot (per garmin). Can anybody offer more info on these "superdeals"? Rumen do not archive ____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Mark R. Supinski; Date: 02:19 PM 11/16/2005 -0700) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R. Supinski" Hi- Anyone have a install guide / pinouts for the Garmin GNC 250XL? I downloaded what Garmin had on their website, only to discover the "Installation" portion of it only had 1 page detailing how to slide the unit in & out of it's tray... that was it... Thanks, Mark Supinski -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:01 AM PST US From: MikeEasley@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com The trim system is hooked up to a Ray Allen position indicator and works fine. When I push the PTT button on the stick (either one) I get a bright top LED on the trim indicator. The LED goes out where the trim indication is (center of the scale). The top LED is the one that's illuminated when the trim indicator is extended. First thought was some voltage from the transmitter is getting into the trim indicator wires due to a poorly shielded com antenna wire. I checked for continuity between the center conductor of the com antenna wire and the shield, and no continuity. Next, I disconnected the wires running aft from the panel to the trim indicator, thinking I was getting some noise, inductance or whatever during transmitting. The trim wires and com antenna run bundled together for about four feet. I still get the light on the indicator. So my conclusion is I've got a problem either with grounding or some incorrect wiring behind the panel. Any ideas? Mike Easley Helping a Glasair Guy ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:25 AM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" Probably not relevant, but when +12v is applied to the white wire on the RP3 LED Position Indicator, it dims the indicator lighting... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MikeEasley@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com The trim system is hooked up to a Ray Allen position indicator and works fine. When I push the PTT button on the stick (either one) I get a bright top LED on the trim indicator. The LED goes out where the trim indication is (center of the scale). The top LED is the one that's illuminated when the trim indicator is extended. First thought was some voltage from the transmitter is getting into the trim indicator wires due to a poorly shielded com antenna wire. I checked for continuity between the center conductor of the com antenna wire and the shield, and no continuity. Next, I disconnected the wires running aft from the panel to the trim indicator, thinking I was getting some noise, inductance or whatever during transmitting. The trim wires and com antenna run bundled together for about four feet. I still get the light on the indicator. So my conclusion is I've got a problem either with grounding or some incorrect wiring behind the panel. Any ideas? Mike Easley Helping a Glasair Guy ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-wag wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:25 AM 11/14/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gary Casey > >I have decided to use the B and C wig-wag system in my plane with a >single pole 3-way switch (off-wigwag-on). The only way I can think >of to wire it requires 2 SPDT relays (I plan to use automotive-type >"DIN" relays everywhere for commonality) to switch the lights from >the wig wag position to the both on position. Is there a better, >simpler way? I know you could use a double-pole 3-way switch, but my >panel is already done and lighted rocker switches are what fit. >Lancair sells a lighted switch that is labeled correctly, so that's >what I'll use. see page 3 of http://aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:03 AM PST US From: "William" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" A neighbor had that problem, it was traced to a grounding problem. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > The trim system is hooked up to a Ray Allen position indicator and works > fine. When I push the PTT button on the stick (either one) I get a bright > top > LED on the trim indicator. The LED goes out where the trim indication is > (center of the scale). The top LED is the one that's illuminated when the > trim > indicator is extended. > > First thought was some voltage from the transmitter is getting into the > trim > indicator wires due to a poorly shielded com antenna wire. I checked for > continuity between the center conductor of the com antenna wire and the > shield, > and no continuity. > > Next, I disconnected the wires running aft from the panel to the trim > indicator, thinking I was getting some noise, inductance or whatever > during > transmitting. The trim wires and com antenna run bundled together for > about four > feet. I still get the light on the indicator. > > So my conclusion is I've got a problem either with grounding or some > incorrect wiring behind the panel. > > Any ideas? > > Mike Easley > Helping a Glasair Guy > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:46 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS IFR requirements INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.4999 1.0000 0.0000 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 11/15/2005 Hello Anon, Regarding your question copied below "....how to certify a GPS for IFR operations in an experimental aircraft?" The short answer is: "One should not even attempt such certification because it is not required." Let me explain. The term "certify" is thrown around too loosely and any attempts to discuss a question about certifying a GPS for IFR operations in an amateur built experimental aircraft without first setting some ground rules will result in endless wrangling. To me "certified" in this context means there is a piece of paper (certificate or equivalent document) signed by a person authorized by the FAA Administrator to sign that certificate or document. Standard type certificated aircraft get a standard airworthiness certificate based on meeting published standards and during its operational life no one is permitted to legally do anything to that aircraft that would void that certificate. There are tens of thousands of words in the Federal Aviation Regulations, Advisory Circulars, Technical Standard Orders, RTCA documents, SAE documents, FAA Orders, and other documents such as FAA policy that exist to maintain the sanctity of that aircraft's standard airworthiness status. Amateur built experimental aircraft get an initial special airworthiness certificate, which includes Operating Limitations specific to that individual aircraft, signed by an FAA Inspector or a DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative) acting with the authority of the FAA Administrator. Since there are no published standards for amateur built experimental aircraft to deviate from, as long as the aircraft remains in compliance with its Operating Limitations and the references contained therein it is properly certified and no further certification acts are required. Moving on to the subject of IFR equipment and instruments in amateur built experimental aircraft. The best discussion of this subject is by Dick Koehler starting on page 62 of the September 2005 issue of Sport Aviation magazine. Also see the MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR POWERED AMATEUR BUILT EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT table available directly from me. Now focusing specifically on GPS IFR equipment requirements and IFR operations in amateur built experimental aircraft. One should read the entire paragraph 1-1-19 of the August 4, 2005 edition of the AIM (Aeronautical Information Manual) Note One to Table 1-1-6 reads "To determine equipment approvals and limitations, refer to the AFM, AFM supplements, or pilot guides." The amateur builder has control over what his Aircraft Flight Manual says or does not say. The pilot has access to the information and limitations provided by the maker of his GPS equipment (pilot guides). If the builder / pilot of an amateur built experimental aircraft is in compliance with his aircraft's Operating Limitations, in compliance with his AFM, in compliance with the instructions and limitations provided by the maker of his GPS equipment, and in compliance with the equipment requirements and flight procedural instructions regarding GPS IFR in the most recent version of the AIM then he has met the legal requirements to fly GPS IFR and no additional certification activity or approval is required. I'm happy to continue the discussion if there are differing or additional viewpoints. OC ----- Original Message ----- From: Anon Subject: GPS IFR requirements > Hello O.C. I recall that you did some extensive research on how to certify > a GPS > for IFR operations in an experimental aircraft. There seems to be a lot > of interpretation of the law as written, and I would be interested in > your findings and opinions on the subject. > Regards, Anon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:01 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Thanks, Stormy, and all others who provided so much informative feedback. I thought one grows wiser (and less trusting scammers) after 50 :) but I almost fell for it. Actually my mechanic did too - I had heard from him that one could get a 430 for ~3K on ebay. rumen _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from sportav8r@aol.com; Date: 08:25 AM 11/17/2005 -0500) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com I've encountered this, too. They're somehow pirating even the seller account/name for the listing. Never deal with anyone whose ad says "don't contact me at via ebay; use this private (usually hotmail) address." That's done to keep the real account owner unaware of the ad's existence. Unfortunately, some of the selling prices the scammers want are close enough to legit to be a great inducement without throwing up red flags. Always confirm the ad's legitimacy by communicating with the seller via ebay. Often they'll thank you for making them aware that someone is pirating their account (and feedback reputation to boot). -Stormy -----Original Message----- From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com There are some garmin gpsmap's 196/296/396 on ebay with constantly changing item numbers (the latest being item number 7197563352, but if already changed search on gps 296 or 396 or gpsmap 296or 396). The 296 is sold for $400 (!!) and the 396 (this is "buy it now" price) goes for $500. Garmin's sugg. retail for the 396 is around $2600 and the street price is ~$2500, hence the suspicion. Further research indicated that the items are coming from Europe, Romania. Garmin does not export the 396 to EU because sat. wx-radio and wx-weather is not available (not propagated) to EU. Further while the airports and navaids map, as well as terrain and obstructions data base and software can be upgraded, the basesemap (showing the geographic waypoints on the ground) cannot (per garmin). Can anybody offer more info on these "superdeals"? Rumen do not archive ____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Mark R. Supinski; Date: 02:19 PM 11/16/2005 -0700) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R. Supinski" Hi- Anyone have a install guide / pinouts for the Garmin GNC 250XL? I downloaded what Garmin had on their website, only to discover the "Installation" portion of it only had 1 page detailing how to slide the unit in & out of it's tray... that was it... Thanks, Mark Supinski -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:18 AM PST US From: "Wayne Sweet" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics-List: GPS IFR requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" OC, Thanks for a very informative summary on this subject. I have had battles with other builders intent on following the "letter of the FAR's", which invariably lead to mass confusion and spit-ball fights. I left one discussion group just for that reason. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Avionics-List: GPS IFR requirements > --> Avionics-List message posted by: > > 11/15/2005 > > Hello Anon, Regarding your question copied below "....how to certify a > GPS for IFR operations in an experimental aircraft?" > > The short answer is: "One should not even attempt such certification > because > it is not > required." Let me explain. > > The term "certify" is thrown around too loosely and any attempts to > discuss a question about certifying a GPS for IFR operations in an > amateur > built > experimental aircraft without first setting some ground rules will > result in endless wrangling. > > To me "certified" in this context means there is a piece of paper > (certificate or > equivalent document) signed by a person authorized by the FAA > Administrator > to sign > that certificate or document. > > Standard type certificated aircraft get a standard airworthiness > certificate based on meeting published standards and during its > operational > life no one is permitted to legally do anything to that aircraft that > would > void that certificate. There are > tens of thousands of words in the Federal Aviation Regulations, Advisory > Circulars, Technical Standard Orders, RTCA documents, SAE documents, FAA > Orders, and other documents such as FAA policy that exist to maintain the > sanctity of that aircraft's > standard airworthiness status. > > Amateur built experimental aircraft get an initial special airworthiness > certificate, which includes Operating Limitations specific to that > individual aircraft, signed by an FAA Inspector or a DAR (Designated > Airworthiness Representative) acting with the authority of the FAA > Administrator. Since there are no published standards for amateur built > experimental aircraft to deviate from, as long as the aircraft remains > in compliance with its Operating Limitations and the references contained > therein it is properly certified and no further certification acts are > required. > > Moving on to the subject of IFR equipment and instruments in amateur > built experimental aircraft. The best discussion of this subject is by > Dick > Koehler starting on page 62 of the September 2005 issue of Sport > Aviation magazine. Also see the MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT > REQUIREMENTS > FOR POWERED AMATEUR BUILT EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT > table available directly from me. > > Now focusing specifically on GPS IFR equipment requirements and IFR > operations in amateur built experimental aircraft. One should read the > entire paragraph 1-1-19 of the August 4, 2005 edition of the AIM > (Aeronautical Information Manual) > > > Note One to Table 1-1-6 reads "To determine equipment approvals and > limitations, refer to the AFM, AFM supplements, or pilot guides." The > amateur builder has control over what his Aircraft Flight Manual says or > does not say. The pilot has access to the information and limitations > provided by the maker of his GPS equipment (pilot guides). > > If the builder / pilot of an amateur built experimental aircraft is in > compliance with his aircraft's Operating Limitations, in compliance with > his AFM, in compliance with the instructions and limitations provided by > the > maker of his GPS equipment, and in compliance with the equipment > requirements and flight procedural instructions regarding GPS IFR in the > most recent version of the AIM then he has met the legal requirements to > fly GPS IFR and no additional certification activity or approval is > required. > > I'm happy to continue the discussion if there are differing or additional > viewpoints. > > OC > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Anon > > Subject: GPS IFR requirements > >> Hello O.C. I recall that you did some extensive research on how to >> certify >> a GPS >> for IFR operations in an experimental aircraft. There seems to be a lot >> of interpretation of the law as written, and I would be interested in >> your findings and opinions on the subject. > >> Regards, Anon > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:06 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > Thanks, Stormy, and all others who provided so much informative feedback. > I thought one grows wiser (and less trusting scammers) after 50 :) but I > almost fell for it. Actually my mechanic did too - I had heard from him > that one could get a 430 for ~3K on ebay. One simple way to separate the wheat from the "scam" is to offer to come over and see the actual unit that is for sale. If it's on the up and up, they will be happy to have you visit. I had one guy say "Well, you can't come look at it, because I'm in Europe". I told him that I'm in Europe, too. Then he said that he lives far from any major city. I told him I'm a pilot, and I could fly anywhere there's an airfield in Europe in a couple of hours. He stopped responding. Scammer! -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:05 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS IFR requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Do I take this to mean that if the GPS mfgr says his product is for VFR only, that there's no way for the homebuilder to legislate his way around that in the Pilot's Operating Handbook that he writes for the airplane? (see excerpts below) -Stormy -----Original Message----- From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS IFR requirements >>If the builder / pilot of an amateur built experimental aircraft is in compliance with his aircraft's Operating Limitations, in compliance with his AFM, in compliance with the instructions and limitations provided by the maker of his GPS equipment, << ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:46 AM PST US From: "Will N. Stevenson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sorry List, Wrong Address --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Will N. Stevenson" do not archive > Hi Matt, > > Can you create a mailing list >, etc. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:40 AM PST US From: Frank Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 296/396 on ebay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Frank While we're talking about auction scams, let me just warn you all about another one that applies if you're selling something. You'll get an exceptionally (dare I say unbelievably?) good offer, maybe even more than your asking price. You will be asked to withdraw the auction and sell directly. So far, so good. Next, you'll be told that the buyer is going to over-pay you for some reason... they have a cheque/money order/whatever that they can't cash in their country is a common one. You're asked to bank it and send them the difference by Western Union, keeping an extra couple of hundred for your trouble. Obviously, you'll find out later that the cheque is a dud. The payment by WU is untraceable, and you've just lost your money. Maybe you've also sent the goods, so you've lost that too. A variation on this scam is to overpay you directly into your bank account, again asking for the difference to be sent by WU. You can't go wrong if you've got the actual money in your account, right? Wrong! What's happening here is that another scam victim, who thinks they're buying something, has paid the money into your account. In a few weeks, they'll realise they've been conned, and come at you for the money. This is a situation that only the lawyers will win. Another step in the scams is for you to later receive an email from the FBI, Nigerian Police, Secret Service, CIA, or someone similar (with a money for you. Needless to say, this recovery will involve you paying fees to the agency involved, or to lawyers, by WU... Further information about these and other types of scams can be found at http://www.scampatrol.org Frank ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Mike - We get exactly the same thing when we transmit, using either com. I have not trouble shot this because it does not have any effect on the actual trim servos themselves. If you are using the RG400 cable for your antenna runs, I doubt if they are the culprit. Are you getting this on both the pitch and yaw trim indicators? One guess would be that the indicator circuitry in the servos themselves are getting the RF, when you transmit, from the com antenna in the vertical stab and sending it all the way to the indicator. Or, the LED indicator itself is picking up the RF and turning the top LED on. BTW, as I recall, the LED that seems to indicate the position of the servo/tab also dims when I transmit. I also cannot recall if the flap indicator does the same as the trim indicators. Our panel is wrapped to keep the darned sanding dust from getting to it. When we finish that, I'll try to see what the flap indicator does. What does Ray Allen say about this? Cheers, John On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:40:25 EST, wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > The trim system is hooked up to a Ray Allen position indicator and > works fine. When I push the PTT button on the stick (either > one) I > get a bright top LED on the trim indicator. The LED goes out where > the trim indication is (center of the scale). The top > LED is the one > that's illuminated when the trim indicator is extended. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Bill - This is the way that Ray Allen dims their LED indicators for night ops. That circuitry is probably complex and may have something to do with these problems. John On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:54:49 -0600, Bill Denton wrote: > Probably not relevant, but when +12v is applied to the white wire on > the RP3 LED Position Indicator, it dims the indicator lighting... -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:14 AM PST US From: "Will N. Stevenson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS IFR requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Will N. Stevenson" OC, Thanks once again for a clearly written analysis of the murky FARs, well done. Will do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:37 AM PST US From: "Will N. Stevenson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thanks Bob; A Good Book --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Will N. Stevenson" 'Lectric Bob, Thank you for your wonderful AeroElectric Connection publication. I'm almost finished and understand what everybody on the List is talking about now. It's great to read clearly written explanations and lessen areas of ignorance. Further in that vein, here's a clearly written and profusely illustrated, systems type approach to avionics that might be appealing to other beginning avionics buffs. It's titled "Avionics Training: Systems, Installation and Troubleshooting" by Len Buckwalter, located at http://avionics.com/index.html . The chapters on "Connectors" and "Wiring the Airplane" are good, though he does seem to lean towards ring and knife connectors. There are chapters on all the different avionic systems out there now. There is a lot of easily understood information in this book. It's just recently published. The website itself has a lot of information and books about avionics, enjoyable to look through. Will ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:34 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS IFR requirements From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" That's correct. As homebuilders we have lots of latitude, but not THAT much :-) Dennis Glaeser --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Do I take this to mean that if the GPS mfgr says his product is for VFR only, that there's no way for the homebuilder to legislate his way around that in the Pilot's Operating Handbook that he writes for the airplane? -Stormy ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:50 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 12v Ipod...Need Vol Help (REAL PROBLEM IS) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: On a related note, one of the biggest problem with little audio devices altogether not volume control but that they don't put out enough power to drive the intercom properly in the first place. You end up cranking the portable device up to the max and it distorts, and/or you crank the intercom up to compensate which amplifies the distortion further. Most small audio devices only have enough juice to drive small ear buds. A pre-amp is the solution. Here the idea which I plan on using on my RV-7. I am making a little stereo audio amplifier behind the panel. It can run all the time boosting all aux/music input signals, taking only milliamps to run. Electronic kits can be bought for less than $10. You can get fancy and have access to the volume or even "tone" if you want, or a little unit that has a fixed boost and hide it behind the panel. The drain is so low in standby you don't need an on/off. Some example kits: http://www.quasarelectronics.com/audio_amplifiers.htm (scroll down to see stereo modules) A strong audio input source is not possible with most devices. I have an iPod and love it of course. I use it in my car with a radio modulator that uses the bottom plug and it is acceptable, but not perfect. This is a different scenario using a FM radio modulator than plugging direct into an aux input. I don't know what its output is like with an aircraft intercom yet, but plan on the pre-amp. Also not all "stereo" intercoms are the same. I had a PS Engineering stereo intercom in my RV-4 and it worked great but suffered from low input from the portable music source. I did not use a pre-amp . My RV-7 project has a DRE and is a more powerful stereo unit. Adding a little pre-amp, I expect good stereo fidelity, at least as much as I can hope for at 200 MPH and a Lycoming screaming a foot from my feet. I have not tried it yet, but you can always use more input power with portable devices (to a point). With a preamp you can run the portable device at low volume (low distortion) and boost it with the pre-amp; This allows the intercom to also be at a lower vol. All this is good. George --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Magneto switch wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:57 AM 11/16/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" > > >A number of Bob's Z-diagrams show how to do this. I believe Z-11 does >(don't have the diagrams in front of me). > >Dennis Glaeser >RV 7A Wings (installing ailerons & flaps) > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: eddyfernan@aol.com > Does anyone out there have a drawing of how to wire the magnetos >with toggle switches > and a separate starter button? I'd also like wire them with a >lockout > in case of kickback (one impulse). See http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Ignition/TogMagSw.pdf (lower of the two diagrams). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:47 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:09 AM 11/14/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >I am not familiar with Jabiru's but if I was ordering new materials for >this I'd use awg12 wire and a 20 amp breaker. > >15 amps might be OK but a 20 amp breaker should not nuisance trip. I >wouldn't trust a 15 amp fuse as they tend to be quick to trip and might >well trip when you apply power after an engine start. Your 15 amp >alternator rating is a nominal rating and it might well put out a little >more in some conditions. 12 awg wire fits yellow PIDG connectors so it >is easy to install and will handle 15 or so amps without excessive >heating or voltage drop for reasonable lengths and wire bundle sizes. > >Ken Good answer, I agree. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:22 PM PST US From: Jon Goguen Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS IFR requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen I assumed this to be correct, and bought an IFR certified GPS. On the other hand, if I look in the Rotax 912S manual, it says the engine is restricted to use for day VFR only. This injunction also appears in the manual for the certified version of the engine. I assume that Rotax-powered ships do get signed off for IFR use, so the restrictions in the operating manuals must still allow some lattitude. Is this correct? Jon Jon Goguen jon.goguen@umassmed.edu Central Massachusetts Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved) Complete except for electrics and avionics "Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind" --Woody Allen On Nov 17, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Glaeser, Dennis A wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" > > > That's correct. As homebuilders we have lots of latitude, but not THAT > much :-) > > Dennis Glaeser > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com > Do I take this to mean that if the GPS mfgr says his product is for VFR > only, that there's no way for the homebuilder to legislate his way > around that in the Pilot's Operating Handbook that he writes for the > airplane? > > -Stormy > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:46 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS IFR requirements From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Actually you don't need a "sign off" for IFR work. I will have mine inspected for VFR and slide the GNS 430 in later to the preinstalled tray...I then have the pitot-static/transponder check don and its legal for IFR...as long as I say so in my OP-lims. I mean what does it say for my auto conversion??..Nothing...:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Goguen Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS IFR requirements --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen --> I assumed this to be correct, and bought an IFR certified GPS. On the other hand, if I look in the Rotax 912S manual, it says the engine is restricted to use for day VFR only. This injunction also appears in the manual for the certified version of the engine. I assume that Rotax-powered ships do get signed off for IFR use, so the restrictions in the operating manuals must still allow some lattitude. Is this correct? Jon Jon Goguen jon.goguen@umassmed.edu Central Massachusetts Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved) Complete except for electrics and avionics "Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind" --Woody Allen On Nov 17, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Glaeser, Dennis A wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" > > > That's correct. As homebuilders we have lots of latitude, but not THAT > much :-) > > Dennis Glaeser > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com > Do I take this to mean that if the GPS mfgr says his product is for > VFR only, that there's no way for the homebuilder to legislate his way > around that in the Pilot's Operating Handbook that he writes for the > airplane? > > -Stormy > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:33 PM PST US From: "glong2" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glong2" John, Mike: My LED trim indicators - aileron, elevator, and flaps - all dim when transmitting from either com. Each of my coms has a different antenna. I, like John have done no troubleshooting because nothing else is affected except LED brightness. If there is an easy fix, I will fix, else I will leave alone! Eugene Long Lancair Super ES glong2@netzero.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Mike - We get exactly the same thing when we transmit, using either com. I have not trouble shot this because it does not have any effect on the actual trim servos themselves. If you are using the RG400 cable for your antenna runs, I doubt if they are the culprit. Are you getting this on both the pitch and yaw trim indicators? One guess would be that the indicator circuitry in the servos themselves are getting the RF, when you transmit, from the com antenna in the vertical stab and sending it all the way to the indicator. Or, the LED indicator itself is picking up the RF and turning the top LED on. BTW, as I recall, the LED that seems to indicate the position of the servo/tab also dims when I transmit. I also cannot recall if the flap indicator does the same as the trim indicators. Our panel is wrapped to keep the darned sanding dust from getting to it. When we finish that, I'll try to see what the flap indicator does. What does Ray Allen say about this? Cheers, John On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:40:25 EST, wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > The trim system is hooked up to a Ray Allen position indicator and > works fine. When I push the PTT button on the stick (either > one) I > get a bright top LED on the trim indicator. The LED goes out where > the trim indication is (center of the scale). The top > LED is the one > that's illuminated when the trim indicator is extended. > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:56 PM PST US From: "Franz Fux" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Magneto switch wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Franz Fux" It is actually Z-27 that gives details on wiring one mag and one EI Franz -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Magneto switch wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:57 AM 11/16/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" > > >A number of Bob's Z-diagrams show how to do this. I believe Z-11 does >(don't have the diagrams in front of me). > >Dennis Glaeser >RV 7A Wings (installing ailerons & flaps) > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: eddyfernan@aol.com > Does anyone out there have a drawing of how to wire the magnetos >with toggle switches > and a separate starter button? I'd also like wire them with a >lockout > in case of kickback (one impulse). See http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Ignition/TogMagSw.pdf (lower of the two diagrams). Bob . . . -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. -- Checked by AVG Free Edition.