AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 11/20/05


Total Messages Posted: 24



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:18 AM - S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit ? (Bill Schlatterer)
     2. 09:05 AM - Piper Flasher (gary.stiffler@kroger.com)
     3. 10:34 AM - Re: Piper Flasher (Eric M. Jones)
     4. 11:58 AM - Wire wrap (Wayne Sweet)
     5. 12:37 PM - Re: Wire wrap (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 12:58 PM - Re: Wire wrap (Bob McCallum)
     7. 01:11 PM - Re: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 01:26 PM - Re: Wire wrap (Dave Morris \)
     9. 02:26 PM - Re: Wire wrap (Wayne Sweet)
    10. 02:46 PM - Re: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit ? (Bill Schlatterer)
    11. 02:47 PM - MD200-306 indicator and dual navs ()
    12. 03:20 PM - Re: S704-1 Wiring Diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 03:43 PM - Re: GPS IFR requirements ()
    14. 03:53 PM - Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    15. 03:53 PM - Re: Wire wrap (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 03:58 PM - 2-5 switches (Ron)
    17. 05:25 PM - Re: Wire wrap (Wayne Sweet)
    18. 06:25 PM - Re: Starter Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    19. 06:26 PM - Re: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT (Eric M. Jones)
    20. 06:52 PM - Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (rd2@evenlink.com)
    21. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Starter Wiring (Ron)
    22. 08:21 PM - Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    23. 08:40 PM - Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    24. 08:47 PM - Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (BobsV35B@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:18:52 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit ?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net> Bob has suggested using the S704-1 Relay in place of a battery contactor if using a small battery for an auxiliary power bus for EFIS systems only. No Starting duty. I can't seem to find a diagram showing which terminals to use in this application. I see that in the AE site and B&C site they show the 704 used in the PM OV diagram but really don't spell it out for the "electrically challenged" like me. Would appreciate any help with a wiring diagram or terminal info when using the S704-1 in a light non-starting aux battery circuit? Thanks Bill S RV7a Ark fuse/panel


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:05:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Piper Flasher
    From: gary.stiffler@kroger.com
    11/20/2005 12:03:55, Serialize complete at 11/20/2005 12:03:55 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: gary.stiffler@kroger.com I have a landing gear in-transit light that uses a Tung-Sol flasher model 617. The bi-metalic strip is shot. $.50 worth of materials, Piper Cost $1000.00. Does anyone have a simple solid state circuit that I could build inside of this unit? It is about two inches long and one half inch deep. The bulb is .08 amps X 14 volts. Thanks: Gary N952GS Grumman AA1B


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:34:26 AM PST US
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Piper Flasher
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: gary.stiffler@kroger.com >I have a landing gear in-transit light that uses a Tung-Sol flasher model >617. The bi-metalic strip is shot. $.50 worth of materials, Piper Cost >$1000.00. Does anyone have a simple solid state circuit that I could build >inside of this unit? It is about two inches long and one half inch deep. >The bulb is .08 amps X 14 volts. Thanks: Gary N952GS Grumman AA1B Gary, Tungsol flashers were used on Fords for decades. Have you tried the local NAPA or Ford dealer? Failing that, try http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/555.htm for a 555 timer solution. Also consider just using a blinking LED. Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 (508) 764-2072


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:58:17 AM PST US
    From: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
    Subject: Wire wrap
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> After reading in Light Plane Maintenance about the bad aspects of plastic ty-wraps, I am re-doing my wire stays off the engine mount with Adel clamps and as suggested in the article, with the old fashion, but tedious wire bundling wrap. It stated the Digikey has this stuff, but I was unable to locate it in my catalog. Does anyone have a source for this stuff? Wayne


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:37:54 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Wire wrap
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 11:55 AM 11/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> > >After reading in Light Plane Maintenance about the bad aspects of plastic >ty-wraps, I am re-doing my wire stays off the engine mount with Adel >clamps and as suggested in the article, with the old fashion, but tedious >wire bundling wrap. It stated the Digikey has this stuff, but I was unable >to locate it in my catalog. >Does anyone have a source for this stuff? >Wayne String ties don't have to be any more hassle than ty-wraps. See http://aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html for slick technique on getting a two-handed string-tie to draw down as tight as a plastic ty-wrap. You're looking for waxed polyester lacing tape. See Aircraft Spruce catalog for listing below. BREYDEN NYLON LACING TAPES Flat braided tape manufactured from 100% high tenacity, continuous filament nylon yarn. This tape is impregnated with a specially formulated microcrystalline, fungicidal wax. Conforms to the requirements of A-A-52080-B-3. Recommended for continuous lacing. 500 yd. rolls. Width: .077" (min.) / .094" (max.); Thickness: .011" (min.) / .017" (max.); Tensile Strength: 50 Lb. (min.); Wax Content: 15-32%; Elongation: 40% (max.) Natural ............P/N 11-12170 ..........$14.85 Black ..............P/N 11-12160 ..........$17.30 Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:58:47 PM PST US
    From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Re: Wire wrap
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> Wayne; Digikey lists it as part number LC134-ND, but is out of stock, Mouser catalogue page 749 lower right corner lists 12 different variations, and Newark lists part numbers 26C0303, and # 26C0304. I'd suspect that most other electronics suppliers would have it as well. It is made by Alpha Wire amongst others. Bob McC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire wrap > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> > > After reading in Light Plane Maintenance about the bad aspects of plastic ty-wraps, I am re-doing my wire stays off the engine mount with Adel clamps and as suggested in the article, with the old fashion, but tedious wire bundling wrap. It stated the Digikey has this stuff, but I was unable to locate it in my catalog. > Does anyone have a source for this stuff? > Wayne > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:11:29 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> Circuit ?
    Subject: Re: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery
    Circuit ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> Circuit ? At 09:18 AM 11/20/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" ><billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net> > >Bob has suggested using the S704-1 Relay in place of a battery contactor if >using a small battery for an auxiliary power bus for EFIS systems only. No >Starting duty. I can't seem to find a diagram showing which terminals to >use in this application. I see that in the AE site and B&C site they show >the 704 used in the PM OV diagram but really don't spell it out for the >"electrically challenged" like me. > >Would appreciate any help with a wiring diagram or terminal info when using >the S704-1 in a light non-starting aux battery circuit? See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/s704inst.jpg See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf for schematic. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:26:56 PM PST US
    From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
    Subject: Re: Wire wrap
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com> I'm curious what they say about why nylon cable ties would be bad. By the way, here's a photo of why you should use the aircraft grade Adel clamps instead of cheaping out and going to Home Depot. This photo was taken 3 months after taking both out of their plastic packaging and setting them on a table in my hangar. Black one on the left is from Home Depot. Right one is from Wicks. http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/IMG_1028.jpg Dave Morris At 01:55 PM 11/20/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> > >After reading in Light Plane Maintenance about the bad aspects of plastic >ty-wraps, I am re-doing my wire stays off the engine mount with Adel >clamps and as suggested in the article, with the old fashion, but tedious >wire bundling wrap. It stated the Digikey has this stuff, but I was unable >to locate it in my catalog. >Does anyone have a source for this stuff? >Wayne > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:26:57 PM PST US
    From: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Wire wrap
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> Here's a quote from a letter to the Editor: "these things can and do saw their way through any metal components because of the dirty environment.." "I have examples of primer lines, oil .lines, fuel lines and even engine mounts that have been nearly severed..." This from an aircraft mechanic and instructor of 52 years experience. Another writer, states he has seen tie-wraps fall off bundles after only 10 years. Apparently these tie-wraps absorb water and expand and contracts with humidity changes. This can cause the above problems. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Morris "BigD"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire wrap > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" > <BigD@DaveMorris.com> > > I'm curious what they say about why nylon cable ties would be bad. By the > way, here's a photo of why you should use the aircraft grade Adel clamps > instead of cheaping out and going to Home Depot. This photo was taken 3 > months after taking both out of their plastic packaging and setting them > on > a table in my hangar. Black one on the left is from Home Depot. Right > one > is from Wicks. > > http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/IMG_1028.jpg > > Dave Morris > > At 01:55 PM 11/20/2005, you wrote: >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" >><w_sweet@comcast.net> >> >>After reading in Light Plane Maintenance about the bad aspects of plastic >>ty-wraps, I am re-doing my wire stays off the engine mount with Adel >>clamps and as suggested in the article, with the old fashion, but tedious >>wire bundling wrap. It stated the Digikey has this stuff, but I was unable >>to locate it in my catalog. >>Does anyone have a source for this stuff? >>Wayne >> >> > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:46:19 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit
    ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net> Bob, thanks don't know how I missed Z35. What should the load limit be on the S704,... 7-10 amps ? Just out of curiosity, what does the terminal notation N.O. and N.C stand for on the S704 diagram ? Thanks Bill S do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Circuit ? Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> Circuit ? At 09:18 AM 11/20/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" ><billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net> > >Bob has suggested using the S704-1 Relay in place of a battery contactor if >using a small battery for an auxiliary power bus for EFIS systems only. No >Starting duty. I can't seem to find a diagram showing which terminals to >use in this application. I see that in the AE site and B&C site they show >the 704 used in the PM OV diagram but really don't spell it out for the >"electrically challenged" like me. > >Would appreciate any help with a wiring diagram or terminal info when using >the S704-1 in a light non-starting aux battery circuit? See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/s704inst.jpg See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf for schematic. Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:47:12 PM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs
    INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0268 1.0000 -4.1053 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net> 11/20/2005 Hello Old Bob, Right you are (see below) and thanks for the opportunity to amplify. When I wrote "You may have runway end location from a data base....skip...." I had in mind three possible end of runway location sources using a data base instead of just field lat long printed on the approach plate, but I did not want to digress that extensively. They are: 1) As you suggest if the GPS has an IFR data base one can call up the identification of the localizer as a destination and then use an approach plate's description of the end of the runway from that localizer to provide end of runway location. 2) One can call up the actual end of runway waypoint from the GPS IFR data base if that waypoint is contained therein. Usually in the form of a five letter missed approach waypoint such as SHENA on the GPS RWY 22 approach to Culpeper VA Regional (CJR). 3) Or if one is operating with a VFR only GPS that does not contain internally either of the two IFR data points described above one can get a compact disc from NACO http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/catalog/charts/digital/daicd that contains the latitude and longitude of all navigation aids and put in the lat long of the localizer as a user identified waypoint and use an approach plate's description of the end of the runway from that localizer to provide end of runway location. A minor technicallity is to realize that the DME antenna is not co located with the localizer antenna. Instead the DME antenna is usually installed on the nearby electronics shack that feeds the localizer antenna. Since there are normally just a few yards between the electronic shack supporting the DME antenna and the localizer antenna, that distance difference is of no significance if one is using the localizer antenna lat long location as also being the DME antenna location. OC AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 11/19/2005 12:51:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, bakerocb@cox.net writes: <<Note that field location and runway center line can come in varying degrees of precision depending upon the information available. You may have runway end location from a data base and instrument approach quality runway alignment from an approach plate. You may only have the field location from a data base or the field lat long printed on an approach plate. You may only have the numbers painted on the runway for your runway alignment. Regardless of the source or precision the big picture provided can be of value to you.>> Good Afternoon OC, All that you say is consistent with my understanding of the system, but It may be helpful for folks to realize that you CAN select the site of the localizer associated DME transceiver. That is very helpful when shooting an ILS or localizer approach because all waypoints along that course will be delineated by that DME site. For the original Garmin units, that site can be found in the waypoint section listed under the associated identifier. As an example, at Rockford Illinois (KRFD) LOC (BACK CRS) Rwy 19 approach, the DME site will have IRFD as the identifier of the waypoint. I am not sure how they are handling the 480. When it was an UPSAT unit, they had that waypoint on a dedicated page for such locations. In any case, the localizer associated DME site will always use the same four letter identifier as the approach being executed. The difficulty using airport identifier delineated waypoints (Airport Reference Point) is that it is difficult to find where that point is at many airports. Jeppesen posts them on the airport view at some, but not all, airports as the ARP. NACO rarely lists them at all other than giving the long/lat. Happy Skies, Old Bob


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:20:38 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: S704-1 Wiring Diagram
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 04:46 PM 11/20/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" ><billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net> > >Bob, thanks don't know how I missed Z35. What should the load limit be on >the S704,... 7-10 amps ? Z-35 is new. I just created it. You guys drive what goes into the 'Connection . . . S-704 and cousins are good for at least 20 amps and some easily acquired plastic automotive relays will handle 70 amps. >Just out of curiosity, what does the terminal notation N.O. and N.C stand >for on the S704 diagram ? Normally open, normally closed. There's a schematic on the side of these relays that tells which terminals are which and often, you'll find tiny "COM", "NO" and "NC" labels molded into the plastic housing adjacent to the appropriate terminals. Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:43:00 PM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: GPS IFR requirements
    INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.4999 1.0000 0.0000 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net> 11/20/2005 Hello Bill, Thanks for your quick response copied below. Unfortunately I think that the instructor you referred to gave you some facts jumbled in with some unsupported opinion BS. There appears to be three issues involved here. They are aerobatic testing, major modification testing, and IFR testing. 1) Regarding aerobatic testing here is what FAA Order 8130.2F currently says should go into the Operating Limitations and what the builder pilot must do: "(15) This aircraft is prohibited from aerobatic flight, that is, an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in the aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration not necessary for normal flight. NOTE: If the builder states that the aircraft is capable of aerobatic flight, limitation 16 will be used in lieu of limitation 15. (16) This aircraft may conduct aerobatic flight in accordance with the provisions of 91.303. Aerobatics must not be attempted until sufficient flight experience has been gained to establish that the aircraft is satisfactorily controllable and in compliance with 91.319(b). The aircraft may only conduct those aerobatic flight maneuvers that have been satisfactorily accomplished during flight testing and recorded in the aircraft maintenance records by use of the following, or a similarly worded, statement: "I certify that the following aerobatic maneuvers have been test flown and that the aircraft is controllable throughout the maneuvers' normal range of speeds, and is safe for operation. The flight-tested aerobatic maneuvers are _________, _________, __________, and __________." NOTE: Aerobatic flights may be permitted in the assigned test area. The applicant should be advised that aerobatics or violent maneuvers should not be attempted until sufficient flight experience has been gained to establish that the aircraft is satisfactorily controllable. These operating limitations may be modified to include only those aerobatics/maneuvers that have been satisfactorily accomplished and recorded in the aircraft records during the flight test period. These aerobatic maneuvers should be permitted upon leaving the assigned test area. Appropriate limitations identifying the aerobatics/maneuvers and conditions under which they may be performed should be prescribed. The FAA may witness aerobatic maneuvers if deemed necessary." That should cover the issue of ".....skip.....you had to perform all the manuvers in the test phase that you were going to use in the 'grown up airplane' phase." The instructor was correct for aerobatic testing. 2) Regarding major modification testing here is what FAA Order 8130.2F currently says should go into the Operating Limitations and what the builder pilot must do: "(19) After incorporating a major change as described in 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with 91.319(b) and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area. If the major change includes installing a different type of engine (reciprocating to turbine) or a change of a fixed-pitch from or to a controllable propeller, the aircraft owner must fill out a revised Form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA Aircraft Registry. All operations must be conducted under day VFR conditions in a sparsely populated area. The aircraft must remain in flight test for a minimum of 5 hours. The FSDO may require additional time (more than 5 hours) depending on the extent of the modification. Persons nonessential to the flight must not be carried. The aircraft owner must make a detailed logbook entry describing the change before the test flight. Following satisfactory completion of the required number of flight hours in the flight test area, the pilot must certify in the records that the aircraft has been shown to comply with 91.319(b). Compliance with 91.319(b) must be recorded in the aircraft records with the following, or a similarly worded, statement: "I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous characteristics or design features, and is safe foroperation. The following aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during the flight testing:speeds Vso ______, Vx ______, and Vy ______, and the weight ______, and CG location ______ at which they were obtained."" The instructor was correct to the extent that there is a requirement for reentering the test phase, but that requirement exists only after a major modification to the aircraft. 3) Regarding IFR testing here is what FAA Order 8130.2F currently says should go into the Operating Limitations and what the builder pilot must do: "(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only." That is it. As you can see the instructor's position regarding required instrument flight testing is not supported by the pertinent basic documents. But any rational builder-pilot should make every reasonable effort to properly equip and test his airplane for IFR flight, if that is his goal, and to comply with the appropriate provisions of the AIM and relevant Advisory Circulars. Not because the FAA has set up the administrative machinery to force him to do so, but because it is in his, and the amateur builder's community, best interest to do so. OC ----- Original Message ----- From: "William" <wschertz@ispwest.com> Subject: Re: GPS IFR requirements >I took the Sport air course on test flying your project, and I believe the >statement was that you had to perform all the manuvers in the test phase >that you were going to use in the 'grown up airplane' phase. i.e. if you >are going to do loops, you must do a loop in the test phase and state that >in your list of things done. When asked about IFR and the fact that you >can't have a safety pilot along, the instructor stated that you 'do the >ILS' under VFR conditions, verifying that the equipment does what it is >supposed to do. > At a separte point, i asked if you wanted to extend a performance point, > and he stated that you take it back to test phase, do the tests, and then > bring it out. > Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:53:04 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 11/20/2005 4:46:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, bakerocb@cox.net writes: A minor technicallity is to realize that the DME antenna is not co located with the localizer antenna. Instead the DME antenna is usually installed on the nearby electronics shack that feeds the localizer antenna. Since there are normally just a few yards between the electronic shack supporting the DME antenna and the localizer antenna, that distance difference is of no significance if one is using the localizer antenna lat long location as also being the DME antenna location. Good Evening OC, True when the DME transceiver is nearby, but there can be some major differences. In fact, some localizer associated DME transceivers are located as much as a mile or two away from the antenna position of the localizer being used. It is not at all unusual to use the same transceiver for approaches to both ends of the runway. That means that there is, at least, the length of the runway difference between the location of the DME transceiver and the localizer antenna in use. Newer installations tend to have two separate transceivers, but many of the older installations are still in use. Another common location has been to have the DME transceiver located abeam the touchdown point for one runway. When that location is used for an approach from the other direction, the distance from the associated localizer will often be well over a mile. I haven't checked recently, but such was the case at KMSP. The DME site for 30L is at the left side of the runway near the glide path touch down point. The approach to 12R uses the same transceiver. Therefore the distances have no relation to either runway end. When using a localizer associated DME transceiver as a distance reference, it is very important to know just where the unit is installed. That information is not always easy to find. The primary reason I mentioned the localizer associated DME units was to point out that those mileages will always coincide with the distance shown on the approach plate for waypoints pertinent to that approach. And, as we all know, the GPS can be used for all DME distances required for flight in the US National Airspace System, including any approach which has the limitation, "DME required". Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:53:51 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Wire wrap
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 01:55 PM 11/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> > >Here's a quote from a letter to the Editor: >"these things can and do saw their way through any metal components because >of the dirty environment.." >"I have examples of primer lines, oil .lines, fuel lines and even engine >mounts that have been nearly severed..." >This from an aircraft mechanic and instructor of 52 years experience. >Another writer, states he has seen tie-wraps fall off bundles after only 10 >years. Apparently these tie-wraps absorb water and expand and contracts with >humidity changes. This can cause the above problems. >Wayne Like the cable clamps that Dave cited, there are equally variable grades of product in tie-wraps. A big jar of brightly colored tie-wraps from Harbor Freight is a real bargain but of unknown pedigree for material. Purchase tie-wraps from catalogs that cite brand names and ratings for the products. See: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/1444.pdf http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/1446-1447.pdf and . . . http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/tyfast.pdf Products from branded sources will cite recommended limits for usage. The "jelly-bean" products are good for at least -40C to +80C applications. You can purchase UV resistant versions for about 20% more but probably not really useful in aircraft. I've seen that quotation about severing engine mounts, etc. and this is mostly hyperbole. ANY banded holding mechanism operating in a dirty environment can pick up grit. If it's allowed to move under vibration, it will grind holes in things. I had a RUBBER power steering hose rub a hole in a STEEL brake line using greasy dirt from the environment as a grinding compound. The hose was barely marked and the brake line failed. The quoted admonition should NOT be uniquely applied to nylon tie straps and it's a concern only under the rarest of conditions. The commercial and military aircraft industries have been using nylon tie straps for decades in just about every location except areas subject to high temperatures. Even if you do use them under the cowl, how long would it take and what would it cost to replace EVERY tie wrap under the cowl at every annual? Not all words from flagship publications are golden and the ones you've cited are especially odorous. I like string because it's cheap. One roll fits all size tying jobs. Multiple passes of string around the job can apply a great deal of pressure if needed (I've replaced radiator hose clamps with three or four, two-pass ties). Finally, the knot on the finished tie doesn't snag like the buckle on a tie-wrap. None-the-less, I stock and use the nylon ties in a whole lot of applications as to my contemporaries. Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:58:16 PM PST US
    From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com>
    Subject: 2-5 switches
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com> Z-11 & Z-20 Question I want to use most of Z-19 but want to use one electronic ignition while retaining one mag. Can I use 2 2-5 switches as I would rather not have a push button start switch but use the top momentary portion of the switches to start per note 2. I have a continental 0200 with one mag. Thankyou Ron Triano Ron's Quickies, Page 8 is the Q200 and 9 is the Quickie and page 10 is a new Q200 page. http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page8.html http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page9.html http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html


    Message 17


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    Time: 05:25:35 PM PST US
    From: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Wire wrap
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet@comcast.net> Thanks for the clarification. I will replace these forward of the firewall but not aft. I take it as a challenge to learn how to use the wire wraps as I have seen in some professional jobs. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire wrap > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 01:55 PM 11/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" >><w_sweet@comcast.net> >> >>Here's a quote from a letter to the Editor: >>"these things can and do saw their way through any metal components >>because >>of the dirty environment.." >>"I have examples of primer lines, oil .lines, fuel lines and even engine >>mounts that have been nearly severed..." >>This from an aircraft mechanic and instructor of 52 years experience. >>Another writer, states he has seen tie-wraps fall off bundles after only >>10 >>years. Apparently these tie-wraps absorb water and expand and contracts >>with >>humidity changes. This can cause the above problems. >>Wayne > > Like the cable clamps that Dave cited, there are equally > variable grades of product in tie-wraps. A big jar of > brightly colored tie-wraps from Harbor Freight is a real > bargain but of unknown pedigree for material. Purchase > tie-wraps from catalogs that cite brand names and ratings > for the products. See: > > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/1444.pdf > > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/1446-1447.pdf > > and . . . > > http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/tyfast.pdf > > Products from branded sources will cite recommended > limits for usage. The "jelly-bean" products are good > for at least -40C to +80C applications. You can purchase > UV resistant versions for about 20% more but probably > not really useful in aircraft. > > I've seen that quotation about severing engine mounts, etc. > and this is mostly hyperbole. ANY banded holding mechanism > operating in a dirty environment can pick up grit. If it's > allowed to move under vibration, it will grind holes in > things. I had a RUBBER power steering hose rub a hole in > a STEEL brake line using greasy dirt from the environment > as a grinding compound. The hose was barely marked and the > brake line failed. The quoted admonition should NOT be uniquely > applied to nylon tie straps and it's a concern only under the > rarest of conditions. > > The commercial and military aircraft industries have been > using nylon tie straps for decades in just about every > location except areas subject to high temperatures. Even > if you do use them under the cowl, how long would it take > and what would it cost to replace EVERY tie wrap under the > cowl at every annual? > > Not all words from flagship publications are golden and > the ones you've cited are especially odorous. I like string > because it's cheap. One roll fits all size tying jobs. Multiple > passes of string around the job can apply a great deal of > pressure if needed (I've replaced radiator hose clamps with > three or four, two-pass ties). Finally, the knot on the finished > tie doesn't snag like the buckle on a tie-wrap. None-the-less, > I stock and use the nylon ties in a whole lot of applications > as to my contemporaries. > > Bob . . . > > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:25:12 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Starter Wiring
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 07:26 PM 11/18/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com> > >Z-11 & Z-20 Question >I want to use most of Z-11 but want to use one electronic ignition. Can I >use 2 2-5 switches as I would rather not have a push button start switch but >use the top momentary portion of the switches to start per note 2. I have a >continental 0200 with one mag. Don't see why not. The z-figures are conversation starters intended to illustrate architectures and suggest A -> B planning for the various failure modes. You can mix and match detailed features such as types of alternators, ignition switching, etc between the various architectures. Bob . . .


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:26:54 PM PST US
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Subject: RE: Ray Allen Position Indicator Light and PTT
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com >The trim system is hooked up to a Ray Allen position indicator and works >fine. When I push the PTT button on the stick (either one) I get a bright >top >LED on the trim indicator. The LED goes out where the trim indication is >(center of the scale). The top LED is the one that's illuminated when the >trim >indicator is extended. Mike-- Assuming I understand the problem.... The RAC trim indicator is an LM3914 chip with 10 comparators in a ladder configuration. Each comparator gets its reference from a 1.25V source that is divided by 10. The bottom LED's comparator turns on with an input of >1.25V and the top LED needs to see only >0.125V to turn on. Thus the ground reference and ground noise need to be looked into. The LM3914 is not bulletproof either. Failure of one of the comparators (usually at one end) is fairly common. Make sure the orange, green, and blue leads from the MAC/RAC trim box goes to the corresponding leads on the trim indicator. Twisting or shielding these three wires would be good practice. The other leads don't matter. Try grounding the orange/white wire...since it is supposed to be ground. Don't connect it to + V (smoke!). Dig up the schematics for this system and measure the voltages. If you had an oscilloscope you'd be home by now. Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 (508) 764-2072 "The problem with the world is that only the intelligent people want to be smarter, and only the good people want to improve." - E. Stobblehouse


    Message 20


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    Time: 06:52:51 PM PST US
    From: rd2@evenlink.com
    Subject: Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Hmmmm.... not sure about that, Bob. I did read recently (don't remember the source) that using GPS as a DME substitute when the DME is used for cross-bearings is ok, but not when the DME is the principal instrument for the approach (like when the plate says DME required or for DME arcs). Do you remember the source? Rumen _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from BobsV35B@aol.com; Date: 06:52 PM 11/20/2005 EST) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com ------snip------- ............ And, as we all know, the GPS can be used for all DME distances required for flight in the US National Airspace System, including any approach which has the limitation, "DME required". Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 21


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    Time: 06:59:43 PM PST US
    From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com>
    Subject: Re: Starter Wiring
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com> Thanks Bob, for the very fast reply. Ron Triano Ron's Quickies, Page 8 is the Q200 and 9 is the Quickie and page 10 is a new Q200 page. http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page8.html http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page9.html http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Starter Wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 07:26 PM 11/18/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com> > >Z-11 & Z-20 Question >I want to use most of Z-11 but want to use one electronic ignition. Can I >use 2 2-5 switches as I would rather not have a push button start switch but >use the top momentary portion of the switches to start per note 2. I have a >continental 0200 with one mag. Don't see why not. The z-figures are conversation starters intended to illustrate architectures and suggest A -> B planning for the various failure modes. You can mix and match detailed features such as types of alternators, ignition switching, etc between the various architectures. Bob . . .


    Message 22


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    Time: 08:21:51 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 11/20/2005 8:55:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, rd2@evenlink.com writes: Hmmmm.... not sure about that, Bob. I did read recently (don't remember the source) that using GPS as a DME substitute when the DME is used for cross-bearings is ok, but not when the DME is the principal instrument for the approach (like when the plate says DME required or for DME arcs). Do you remember the source? Rumen Good Evening Rumen, Yes I am sure. The only reference is in the AIM and it IS hard to read, but that was the intent. Believe it or not, I helped write the language, but since it had to be blessed by almost every department of the FAA, the language got pretty convoluted before it was published. For the first few years after the interpretation was published, I had the name of a gentleman to call at Oklahoma City who would be glad to talk to any FSDO office about that subject. He preferred that I NOT give his name out to routine questions, but specifically asked that I have any FSDO inspector who was confused about those provisions give him a call. That fellow has since moved on and is no longer in the office, but I am sure an inquiry at Oklahoma City by a FSDO inspector would get the correct answer. If you know any FSDO inspector who is telling anyone something other than what I said, I would really appreciate giving me that inspector's name. I will contact the Ok City FAA folks and get the proper information distributed. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 23


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    Time: 08:40:51 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 11/20/2005 8:55:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, rd2@evenlink.com writes: I did read recently (don't remember the source) that using GPS as a DME substitute when the DME is used for cross-bearings is ok, but not when the DME is the principal instrument for the approach (like when the plate says DME required or for DME arcs). Do you remember the source? Rumen Good Evening Rumen, If you care to dig through that AIM language, it can be found at 1-1-19, f. Look particularly at f, 1, (a), (2) The revision date on that page is 23 SEP 05. If your AIM is not up to date, try checking 1-1-20. That is the section the same information was located in until a year or so ago. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 24


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    Time: 08:47:35 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Evening Rumen, If you care to dig through that AIM language, it can be found at 1-1-19, f. Look particularly at f, 1, (a), (2) The revision date on that page is 23 SEP 05. If your AIM is not up to date, try checking 1-1-20. That is the section the same information was located in until a year or so ago. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 11/20/2005 8:55:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, rd2@evenlink.com writes: I did read recently (don't remember the source) that using GPS as a DME substitute when the DME is used for cross-bearings is ok, but not when the DME is the principal instrument for the approach (like when the plate says DME required or for DME arcs). Do you remember the source? Rumen




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