---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/22/05: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:08 AM - Re: Latching power relays? () 2. 05:41 AM - Re: Latching power relays? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:12 AM - Re: Latching power relays? (Eric M. Jones) 4. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Latching power relays? (923te) 5. 07:12 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/21/05 (Ernest Christley) 6. 08:56 AM - Re: nav/glide slope antenna question (Larry Rosen) 7. 09:10 AM - PEEK Cable Ties () 8. 10:20 AM - He Said, She Said... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)) 9. 11:09 AM - Alternator terminals (Mark R. Supinski) 10. 12:36 PM - Slap Snap Cable Wraps: was PEEK Cable Ties (Bruce) 11. 01:04 PM - Re: Latching power relays? (Jon Goguen) 12. 01:24 PM - Re: PEEK Cable Ties (SteinAir, Inc.) 13. 01:26 PM - Cable ties..... (Jim Baker) 14. 03:35 PM - Re: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit ? (Bill Schlatterer) 15. 05:02 PM - Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (John Schroeder) 16. 05:28 PM - Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (Wayne Sweet) 17. 05:29 PM - Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (Wayne Sweet) 18. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Latching power relays? (Greg@itmack) 19. 06:01 PM - Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (Matt Prather) 20. 06:03 PM - Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs (John Schroeder) 21. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Latching power relays? (Bob White) 22. 06:57 PM - Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: MD200... (BobsV35B@aol.com) 23. 07:50 PM - Master Relay Mount (Emrath) 24. 11:31 PM - Re: Master Relay Mount (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 25. 11:33 PM - Re: S704-1 Wiring Diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:38 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Latching power relays? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Better than a Latching is this device: http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf 0.13 amp current to hold, Huge current rating, 20G shock, light wt. It does not "Latch" it is held with by electromagnetic The good part is if power is removed it opens as a safety feature. If you have a latched master and can't control it with out power I could see a possible scenarios where this would be bad news. George >From: Jon Goguen >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Latching power relays? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen > > >I'm wondering if there is any data or experience regarding the use of >modern latching power relays like those made by KG Technology or Gruner >in light aircraft. These seem to have good resistance to shock and >vibration. > >Jon --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:42 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Latching power relays? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:39 PM 11/21/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen > >I'm wondering if there is any data or experience regarding the use of >modern latching power relays like those made by KG Technology or Gruner >in light aircraft. These seem to have good resistance to shock and >vibration. > >Jon How is the latching feature attractive to you? Where would you use it? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:39 AM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Latching power relays? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >Better than a Latching is this device: http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf I agree George-- This part is available from Blue Sea Systems in two versions for far less money than most companies charge. See: http://www.bluesea.com/dept.asp?d_id=6619&l1=7958&l2=6607 Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 (508) 764-2072 "Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to one's self-esteem...." -Thomas Szasz ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:39 AM PST US From: "923te" <923te@cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Latching power relays? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net> Hi George, I like the idea of the relay you suggest. Do you know how one would hook up diodes on it? Where is a good place to purchase it? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Better than a Latching is this device: > > http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf > > 0.13 amp current to hold, > Huge current rating, > 20G shock, > light wt. > > It does not "Latch" it is held with by electromagnetic > > The good part is if power is removed it opens as a safety feature. If you have a > latched master and can't control it with out power I could see a possible > scenarios where this would be bad news. > > George > > > >From: Jon Goguen > >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Latching power relays? > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen > > > > > >I'm wondering if there is any data or experience regarding the use of > >modern latching power relays like those made by KG Technology or Gruner > >in light aircraft. These seem to have good resistance to shock and > >vibration. > > > >Jon > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:36 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/21/05 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb >> >>A good source of ty-wraps (neutral and black) at a reasonable price is Altex. >>http://www.altex.com/ >>jerb >> >> > > > Their prices are sure right and they claim UL/MIL approvals. > It would be interesting to know the brands they're selling. > I blew up one of the catalog pictures trying to read the lettering > on one of the offerings but was unable to see it clearly. > > Bob . . . > > Are ty-wraps and lace the only reasonable options for securing wiring? I use the plastic coils to organize all the computer cables around my desk. It's really convenient in that it holds all the calbes securely but is still fairly easy to move wires around. With a tube frame fuselage, this solution would work really nice by using the coil to strap the wire to the tube structure. Adding or removing wires would be a breeze, and there would be no sharp edges to bite me. At work, we use velcro to secure cable bundles that are heavy enough to require both hands to hold. This is not the cheap velcro found at Wal-Mart. It's an inch wide and has a strong grip. I'm guesstimating that the sample I'm holding in my hand right now has a shear strength of 15lbs for a two inch overlap. (Tested by rolling a piece into a 3" loop, overlapping about 2", and then pulling it apart...guesstimating the pressure required.) Both solutions offer the benefit of a much wider area than ty-wraps or lace, reducing the effects of abrasion. Both solutions offer much more holding strength than the wire will ever be able to exert. Both solutions are much more human and modification friendly. Both will hold up to the environmental stresses just as well as ty-wraps or lace. You can get the spiral wrap in a range of materials (http://www.alphawire.com/pages/157.cfm), even teflon. Neither is that much more expensive, if you consider that you only have to buy the strapping material once. http://www.fastenation.com/fasteners.tmpl has a kit that contains more velcro material than you'll ever use for $24.95. It contains *5yds* of the velcro tape. A 25yd roll of Velcro name brand 1" tape can be had for $35.50 from http://www.hookandloop.com/site/department.cfm?id=velcro_one_wrap_brand_tape&level=2000 . The spiral wrap can be had for around $20 for 100ft (http://www.action-electronics.com/jtsw.htm). Neither velcro or coils exert the locked-in-place pressures of ty-wraps and lace, but is that a benefit. They will exert enough holding pressure to keep the wire from vibrating. If solder can be used as a mechanical connection because it has more strength than the wire will ever be able to exert, why do we necessarily need a tie down that is stronger than the wire it's holding? -- ,|"|"|, | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta | o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:20 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: nav/glide slope antenna question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Rosen Try here You can get them from SteinAir , aircraft spruce and others. Larry Rosen RV-10 N205EN (reserved) Alex Peterson wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > > >>Sorry to butt in here, but I have a concern about my VOR/GS >>antenna and am interested in the Bob Archer system. Would you >>post a email or web address for this antenna? >>Wayne >> >> > >Type in "bob archer antenna" into a google search, you'll have more than >enough. His wingtip VOR/LOC/GS antenna works quite well. > >Alex Peterson >RV6-A N66AP 691 hours >Maple Grove, MN > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:20 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: PEEK Cable Ties INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 11/22/2005 Hello Fellow Builders, I have been watching this discussion of the various methods of wire wrap and the pluses and minuses of using nylon ty-wraps with some interest. Technology may offer a superior solution, but it doesn't seem to have gotten much notice yet in our community. Here is a blurb from Machine Design magazine: "Cable ties of a polyarletherketone called Victrex <> PEEK bundle wire and cables securely despite long exposures to high temperatures and pressures of oil drilling, aerospace, and military uses. Wires and cables running the length of an aircraft fuselage or wrapped around an electric pump motor, for example, must be bundled so they don't touch a potential heat source. Nylon cable ties often work well in these applications. But they can melt in more extreme applications such as oil drilling, perhaps interfering with the pumping apparatus. According to Richard Moore, spokesman for cable-tie maker Click Bond Inc., Carson City, Nev. (www.clickbond.com), drilling applications can see temperatures of 392F. Victrex PEEK withstands temperatures to 500F and resists chemicals, electricity, and radiation. Low-moisture absorption and outgassing properties makes the polymer well suited for aerospace applications - low-moisture absorption ensures dimensional stability. And because the PEEK is halogen-free, it emits little smoke and toxic gas during combustion. Additionally, the inherently lubricious material won't abrade the plastic coating on the wires as is often the case with its nylon counterpart." I am willing to buy some PEEK cable ties from Clickbond, but haven't quite figured out how to do so. Their marketing and distribution system is a bit obscure to me. Any suggestions? OC ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:53 AM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Subject: AeroElectric-List: He Said, She Said... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Dear Listers, I've been getting some great feedback from Listers lately along with their List Contributions. I thought I share a few more of the nice thoughts people have had regarding the what the Lists mean to them. Please take a minute right now and make a Contribution to support these Lists. Remember that its solely *your* generosity that keeps them running and without your support they would cease to exist. The Contribution web site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics List Administrator ====================== What Listers Are Saying #3 ====================== This is a great deal for aviation info/entertainment. Christopher R. Truly a great source of help and information. Eddie S. I couldn't imagine building my RV-7A without the 'net and your lists! Sebastian T. Great lists! Corey C. Where would I be without the list? George R. What a resource! Clay K. Great service. Martin H. [The List] has such a wealth of information. David N. A great resource for builders and flyers. Gregg W. I enjoy the Lists. Gene S. A great source of information. Richard N. This is a great service. Ralph C. Great service. Richard N. Great resource! John T. Very helpfull & we appreciate all your efforts. Stan B. Makes me realize how much I don't know that I don't know... Martin H. I am not a builder but enjoy the posts. Doug P. Great information. James B. Thanks to all who share their knowledge and ask the questions I didn't know enough to ask myself. It will fly some day. James M. Excellent source of information. Tony C. While I haven't learned enough to contribute to others very often, I have learned enough to avoid some mistakes in building my kit. CL M. AeroElectric list is the best! Dennis J. [The List] is invaluable. Benjamin S. I think of the Kolb List as the daily "Kolb Magazine" of what's going on. Bill T. Great service. John D. Have very much appreciated the help, suggestions, and knowledge of the listers over the course of my project. Michael S. A very useful service. Colin R. [The List] has saved me from mistakes already several times. Ron L. Love the list and hope to see it never change. David N. Between the archives, the folks that have already done it, and the rest of us currently building - I think every tidbit of knowledge is available to get/keep us in the air. Ralph C. ====================== What Listers Are Saying #3 ====================== do not archive -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:45 AM PST US From: "Mark R. Supinski" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator terminals --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R. Supinski" Hello all- I'm getting ready to wire my alternator and have discovered that I have no idea how to identify the terminals from the Z draw on the actual alternator itself! This is an 80 Amp Mitsubishi alternator which is the stock unit for a Mazda 13B Rotary engine. A picture of the unit can be seen at: http://www.rx7.org/jes/images/DSCN1193(1024).jpg If someone in-the-know could please take a look & tell me which is which, I would sure appreciate it. Thanks, Mark ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:16 PM PST US From: "Bruce" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Slap Snap Cable Wraps: was PEEK Cable Ties --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce" Listers, I haven't used this product on an aircraft yet, but after receiving a sample of these from Waytek last month, I liked them enough to go ahead and order a small batch of each of the three smaller sizes. Only problem buying from Waytek is you need to buy $5.00 of each item, but that isn't an excessive quantity as they run from 35 to 70 cents each. I used 6 or 7 of them with great success last weekend while wiring a solar controller panel. They are lightweight, extremely strong, but easy to open and close, and were helpful in keeping the bundles neatly together while I was pulling and routing wires. On my solar controller project, I left them in place when I finished the job -- on an aircraft you may certainly choose to replace them with some lighter cable ties or cable-lacing after you are finished with running your wires. These helped me wire up a very clean and neat looking project, so I thought I'd share the idea. FYI: The 1.5 inch size weighs 35 grams each which is about four times more than the cable tie I also tossed on the scale. Velcro would do the same thing I guess, but you probably need two hands to close Velcro-- these you just squeeze to tighten, and a flick of your finger opens them up so you can add more wires to the bundle. Click on : www.waytekwire.com click on "Products" and then search for "Slap". Regards, Bruce ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:27 PM PST US From: Jon Goguen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Latching power relays? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen The main advantage from my point of view is weight. With the two-battery dual-alternator arrangement, the number of contactors is multiplying rapidly: a master for each battery, the cross-feed, the starter, and one for OV protection of the primary alternator, which needs to go in the B-lead because the alternator is internally regulated. (I'm aware of the load dump issue, and for the present discussion I'm assuming that a satisfactory solution with a transient suppressor will work out). That's about 5 pounds if I use the nice Tyco EV200 series contactors that others are suggesting. A 100 amp (continuous) latching contactor with an integral status switch weighs less than 100 grams. Contactor control is slightly more complex, generally requiring both a switch and an indicator, but I don't see this as a big impediment. If they don't have a significant problem with inadvertent tripping in the aircraft environment, I would consider using them for all applications except perhaps the starter. The spec sheet indicates operating limits of 10G for shock, but the vibration spec is a little harder to interpret (given as 1 mm, 10-55 Hz). I think this means 1 mm amplitude in the indicated frequency range, but I don't know vibration resistance is required. The vibration specs for the Tyco EV 200 series, given as 20 G sine, 80-2000 Hz, are not directly comparable. Are there specifications for contactor shock and vibration resistance in light aircraft? Jon Jon Goguen jon.goguen@umassmed.edu Central Massachusetts Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved) Complete except for electrics and avionics "Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind" --Woody Allen On Nov 22, 2005, at 8:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 04:39 PM 11/21/2005 -0500, you wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen >> >> >> I'm wondering if there is any data or experience regarding the use of >> modern latching power relays like those made by KG Technology or >> Gruner >> in light aircraft. These seem to have good resistance to shock and >> vibration. >> >> Jon > > How is the latching feature attractive to you? Where would you > use it? > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:37 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: PEEK Cable Ties --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." Here's what I found out about those particular cables. 1st, they are not available yet, it'll be several months. Second, they will be between $1 - $5 EACH. So, if it were me I'd go with the Tefzel cable ties at $.20 each or the high temp nylon which is even cheaper. Cheers, Stein. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > bakerocb@cox.net > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:10 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; avionics-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: PEEK Cable Ties > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > 11/22/2005 > > Hello Fellow Builders, I have been watching this discussion of > the various > methods of wire wrap and the pluses and minuses of using nylon > ty-wraps with > some interest. Technology may offer a superior solution, but it > doesn't seem > to have gotten much notice yet in our community. Here is a blurb from > Machine Design magazine: > > "Cable ties of a polyarletherketone called Victrex > <> PEEK bundle wire and cables securely despite > long exposures to high temperatures and pressures of > oil drilling, aerospace, and military uses. Wires and cables running the > length of an aircraft fuselage or wrapped around an electric pump > motor, for > example, must be bundled so they don't touch a potential heat > source. Nylon > cable ties often work well in these applications. But they can > melt in more > extreme applications such as oil drilling, perhaps interfering with the > pumping apparatus. > > According to Richard Moore, spokesman for cable-tie maker Click Bond Inc., > Carson City, Nev. (www.clickbond.com), drilling applications can see > temperatures of 392F. Victrex PEEK withstands temperatures to 500F and > resists chemicals, electricity, and radiation. Low-moisture absorption and > outgassing properties makes the polymer well suited for aerospace > applications - low-moisture absorption ensures dimensional stability. And > because the PEEK is halogen-free, it emits little smoke and toxic > gas during > combustion. Additionally, the inherently lubricious material won't abrade > the plastic coating on the wires as is often the case with its nylon > counterpart." > > I am willing to buy some PEEK cable ties from Clickbond, but > haven't quite > figured out how to do so. Their marketing and distribution system > is a bit > obscure to me. Any suggestions? > > OC > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:03 PM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable ties..... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" For those wondering what the MIL Spec for cable ties are (gee...I'll bet you REALLY want to know this....), see attched PDF. Bottom line...it means very little. Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: Military%20Specification%20Cross%20Reference.pdf Date: 22 Nov 2005, 15:21 Size: 50429 bytes. Type: Unknown ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:46 PM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" Bob, thanks for the drawing but now I have another question about the relay. In the picture it shows a IN4005 diode across the + and - input but in the diagram it shows a IN4001. I'm not sure I really understand why it is there at all but I assume I should use the IN4001. Could you explain why it is there? Thanks and sorry if this is a little basic. Bill S do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Circuit ? Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S704-1 Wiring Diagram - Aux Battery Circuit ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Circuit ? At 09:18 AM 11/20/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" > > >Bob has suggested using the S704-1 Relay in place of a battery contactor if >using a small battery for an auxiliary power bus for EFIS systems only. No >Starting duty. I can't seem to find a diagram showing which terminals to >use in this application. I see that in the AE site and B&C site they show >the 704 used in the PM OV diagram but really don't spell it out for the >"electrically challenged" like me. > >Would appreciate any help with a wiring diagram or terminal info when using >the S704-1 in a light non-starting aux battery circuit? See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/s704inst.jpg See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf for schematic. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Matt - Get a Garmin AT 480. It has a built-in light and switching system. If you add up the cost of the separate boxes and the annunciator box (lights and switch) you get fairly close to the 480's price. IMHO, John On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:22:51 -0700 (MST), Matt Prather wrote: > my primary CDI. It includes an annunciator to show whether the Nav or > the > GPS is driving it. Get an IFR capable GPS, and set it up to be the GPS > input to the MD-200. > My questions are these: > 1. What do I need in the way of switches or relays to swap the source of > the CDI? -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:15 PM PST US From: "Wayne Sweet" Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" Just curious, what is a AT 480? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schroeder" Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" > > > Matt - > > Get a Garmin AT 480. It has a built-in light and switching system. If you > add up the cost of the separate boxes and the annunciator box (lights and > switch) you get fairly close to the 480's price. > > IMHO, > > John > > > On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:22:51 -0700 (MST), Matt Prather > wrote: > >> my primary CDI. It includes an annunciator to show whether the Nav or >> the >> GPS is driving it. Get an IFR capable GPS, and set it up to be the GPS >> input to the MD-200. >> My questions are these: >> 1. What do I need in the way of switches or relays to swap the source of >> the CDI? > > > -- > > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 731 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:57 PM PST US From: "Wayne Sweet" Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" Just curious, what is a AT 480? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schroeder" Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" > > > Matt - > > Get a Garmin AT 480. It has a built-in light and switching system. If you > add up the cost of the separate boxes and the annunciator box (lights and > switch) you get fairly close to the 480's price. > > IMHO, > > John > > > On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:22:51 -0700 (MST), Matt Prather > wrote: > >> my primary CDI. It includes an annunciator to show whether the Nav or >> the >> GPS is driving it. Get an IFR capable GPS, and set it up to be the GPS >> input to the MD-200. >> My questions are these: >> 1. What do I need in the way of switches or relays to swap the source of >> the CDI? > > > -- > > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 731 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:37 PM PST US From: "Greg@itmack" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Latching power relays? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" I couldn't find any pricing, how much are the 9012 and the 9112 versions? My local supplier sells them for $145 & $216. > > This part is available from Blue Sea Systems in two versions for far less > money than most companies charge. See: > > http://www.bluesea.com/dept.asp?d_id=6619&l1=7958&l2=6607 > > Regards, > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge MA 01550-2705 > (508) 764-2072 > > "Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an > injury to one's self-esteem...." > -Thomas Szasz > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Hi John, The only Garmin thing that I can find with "480" in the name is the GNS 480.. Unless I buy it from one of the guys on ebay (for $3000), I think the seperate units are cheaper (assuming I use the 2 NAV/COMs that are already installed). The MD CDI is about $1500 (new), and the standalone IFR GPS's can be found for $1500 used. I admit that I might have to add a relay to switch the source to the CDI, but those are less that $800, I think. The rest is going to be labor... The cheapest (legitimate looking) GNS480 I have seen was on ebay for $8100. Now that you mention it, I notice that the 430's go for about 5k. I'd still have to buy a CDI with a glideslope though, whatever I do (even if I don't add an approach GPS). More good thinking... Thanks John. Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" > > > Matt - > > Get a Garmin AT 480. It has a built-in light and switching system. If > you add up the cost of the separate boxes and the annunciator box > (lights and switch) you get fairly close to the 480's price. > > IMHO, > > John > > > On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:22:51 -0700 (MST), Matt Prather > wrote: > >> my primary CDI. It includes an annunciator to show whether the Nav or >> the >> GPS is driving it. Get an IFR capable GPS, and set it up to be the >> GPS input to the MD-200. >> My questions are these: >> 1. What do I need in the way of switches or relays to swap the source >> of the CDI? > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200-306 indicator and dual navs From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Wayne - It is the UPS Apollo CNX 80 (WAAS GPS/VOR/COM). It was renamed to the Garmin AT 480 when Garmin bought the Apollo line from UPS. John On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:26:46 -0800, Wayne Sweet wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Sweet" > > > Just curious, what is a AT 480? > Wayne > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:24 PM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Latching power relays? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:01:01 +1000 "Greg@itmack" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" > > I couldn't find any pricing, how much are the 9012 and the 9112 versions? > My local supplier sells them for $145 & $216. Try http://store.wmjmarine.com/s9012.html $125. Sometimes you can find them cheaper on ebay. Bob W. do not archive > > > > > This part is available from Blue Sea Systems in two versions for far less > > money than most companies charge. See: > > > > http://www.bluesea.com/dept.asp?d_id=6619&l1=7958&l2=6607 > > > > Regards, > > Eric M. Jones > > www.PerihelionDesign.com > > 113 Brentwood Drive > > Southbridge MA 01550-2705 > > (508) 764-2072 > > > > "Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an > > injury to one's self-esteem...." > > -Thomas Szasz > > > > > > > > > > > > -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (projected engine start in November) Custom Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:01 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: Re GPS Indicators: WAS: GPS in Lieu of DME, Was: AeroElectric-List: MD200... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 11/22/2005 8:03:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, mprather@spro.net writes: I'd still have to buy a CDI with a glideslope though, whatever I do (even if I don't add an approach GPS). Good Evening Matt, The 430 is the cheapest way to go. You will need only the CDI and that only because the 430 has a localizer and glide slope that need to be connected to one. If the Panel Control Unit is within a reasonable line of sight, such as in the center or far left of the panel, nothing else is needed. For an airplane that has no radios at all. The 430 takes care of everything. Add a handheld Com and a handheld GPS and you will be loaded for bear. A 480 is a very competent machine, but it is a LOT more money and only allows a few more approaches. In a few years, there will be a greater need for the 480 style equipment, but I would suggest waiting for competition before purchasing one. Right now, the 480 is the only unit approved under the WAAS standards. Of course, if money is no object!!---??? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:10 PM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Master Relay Mount --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Emrath" Bob, Just received my shipment with the 701-1 contractor today, with the Plastic Booties on the mounting feet and without any marking "do no ground case". There is no continuity between any of the four posts and the case. As you say below, please confirm it is ok to remove the mounting booties for cooling reasons. These Booties are molded on the mounting feet and removing will destroy them in the process I'm sure. Marty in Brentwood TN Message: #27006 Date: Oct 31, 2005 Subject: Re: Master Relay Mount From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net No. In fact it says "do not ground case" right on the relay. Steve RV7A > If they're S701-1 contactors, then there should be no continuity > from any terminal of the contactor to the case. You can check this > out with an ohmmeter. > > Given that these critters run warm anyhow, I think I'd rather > see them bolted down solid on metal feet to metal surfaces. > I'm really mystified by the plastic booties. Would they slip > off? If you took them off, would they then look like the old > S701-1? > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/s701-1l.jpg > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Relay Mount --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:49 PM 11/22/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Emrath" > >Bob, >Just received my shipment with the 701-1 contractor today, with the Plastic >Booties on the mounting feet and without any marking "do no ground case". >There is no continuity between any of the four posts and the case. As you >say below, please confirm it is ok to remove the mounting booties for >cooling reasons. These Booties are molded on the mounting feet and removing >will destroy them in the process I'm sure. >Marty in Brentwood TN Okay. I've not received any reply from inquiries to White-Rogers/Stancor asking an engineering type to explain the reason for adding the booties . . . One would like to believe that there was a good reason for it but I'm mystified. I'm hard pressed to think of any reason why they would be necessary after about 60 years of production without them. I have no basis for recommending any particular action with regard to this new feature. I'll see if I can contact anyone there by telephone tomorrow. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:18 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: S704-1 Wiring Diagram --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:31 PM 11/22/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" > > >Bob, thanks for the drawing but now I have another question about the relay. >In the picture it shows a IN4005 diode across the + and - input but in the >diagram it shows a IN4001. I'm not sure I really understand why it is there >at all but I assume I should use the IN4001. > >Could you explain why it is there? > >Thanks and sorry if this is a little basic. check out this excerpt from the Radio Shack catalog. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/RS_Diodes.jpg 1N4001 through 1N4005 diodes are offered with the only difference being a voltage rating. For our purposes, anything 50v or over will suffice hence variabilties in call outs. Whatever parts between 1N4001 and 1N4007 you can lay your hands on will work fine. Bob . . .