Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:27 AM - Re: high brightness LEDs (Peter Laurence)
2. 04:58 AM - Re: P-Mag Which Bus? (James H Nelson)
3. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Latching power relays? (Bob how about NO relays?) (Eric M. Jones)
4. 08:02 AM - How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp Alternator? (Tammy Goff)
5. 09:40 AM - The List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're Listed! (Matt Dralle)
6. 10:01 AM - Re: high brightness LEDs (Carlos Sa)
7. 10:35 AM - Re: How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp Alternator? (923te)
8. 10:54 AM - Battery Desulfators (Myth, Magic or Science?) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 11:23 AM - Re: high brightness LEDs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:27 AM - Re: How does one remove the IR in a Van's (Charlie Kuss)
11. 11:56 AM - Re: Latching power relays? (Bob how about NO relays?) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 11:57 AM - Re: P-mag Which Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 03:49 PM - Re: How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp (Charlie England)
14. 04:40 PM - Bellanca starter debugging (Russell Williams)
15. 06:01 PM - Re: Garmin 300xl/KI-202 (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
16. 08:38 PM - Radio Panel Ground Buss (Bill Schlatterer)
17. 09:10 PM - Anti-rotation rings for toggle switches ? (Bill Schlatterer)
18. 09:30 PM - Re: Dual Alternator single battery question (Tammy Goff)
19. 09:34 PM - Re: Anti-rotation rings for toggle switches ? ()
Message 1
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Subject: | high brightness LEDs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" <PLaurence@the-beach.net>
Carlos,
Save yourself a lot of time(grief) and check with Eric Jones at
http://www.periheliondesign.com/
He's done the "math" on the design and makes a nice product.
Peter
RV9A wings
Can someone recommend some high brightness LEDs (and a source)?
I ordered three or four types from the superbrightleds, but they don't
seem that bright ( http://www.superbrightleds.com/index.html )
I'm looking for something like the ones being used in wingtip positioning
lights - powerfull, but not in the Luxeon range ($)...
Thanks in advance
Carlos
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: P-Mag Which Bus? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Pete,
I am using the P-Mag set up also. You only need power from a
source for start up. Once the engine is running, the P-Mag does not need
any outside source of power to continue functioning. The E-Mag does need
a source. This is why I chose to do dual P-Mags. This mimics the old
fashion way of dual "Mags".
A really neat way of getting the benefits of truly independent ignition
and electronic ignition benefits in the same package.
Jim Nelson
RV9-A (finishing wiring)
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Re: Latching power relays? (Bob how about NO relays?) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
> Bob:
>You are right and good point, it does weigh .15 lbs more.
........snip
> To be honest since it is not lighter and cost significantly more I
>am re-evaluating if I will use it. Actually I may use no relays
.......snip
George,
Right on! The No Relay Solution is possible.
1) The Stancor contactor cannot be used to open the B+ line from the
alternator. It's not rated to do that. There is only one reasonable
contactor solution that is rated for the job---the Kilovac EV200 or it's
rebranded clone(s).
2) The FAA rule to disconnect the battery can be satisfied with a racecar
battery switch. Manually disconnecting the battery lead (and reconnecting
it) is easy in many aircraft.
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID=133/home_id=76/mode=cat/cat133.htm
3) Don't use a relay where a switch will do. Many times a relay is invoked
to implement a function that a careful selection of switch would do easily.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
The despotism of custom is everywhere the standing hindrance to human
advancement.
--John Stuart Mill
Message 4
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Subject: | How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp Alternator? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tammy Goff" <tngoff@houston.rr.com>
I have searched and found a little info on how to remove the internal regulator
on an alternator but still am uncomfortable digging into the alternator to do
it. I fear mixing up or not being able to find what is the S, what is the F
lead what is the ground from the alternator. I have a Van's 40 amp alternator
and will be using the B&C regulator for the Z-12 (dual alternator single battery)
set up. Electricity makes me a little nervous with the fear of smoking those
rather expensive voltage regulators (or anything else).
Does anyone have a "how to" on removing the IR?
Message 5
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Subject: | The List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're |
Listed!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On
December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a
Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly
thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems
at least, if not a whole lot more, as valuable as a
building/flying/recreating tool as a typical your magazine
subscription. We won't even talk about a newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a
Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or
M/C on the SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that
its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't
forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped
you! I love to feel the love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 6
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Subject: | high brightness LEDs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
That's good advice, I do have Eric's site bookmarked for when I get to that stage.
But I'm not trying to make position lights...
Cheers
Carlos
Peter Laurence <PLaurence@the-beach.net> wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message
posted by: "Peter Laurence"
Carlos,
Save yourself a lot of time(grief) and check with Eric Jones at
http://www.periheliondesign.com/
He's done the "math" on the design and makes a nice product.
Peter
RV9A wings
Can someone recommend some high brightness LEDs (and a source)?
I ordered three or four types from the superbrightleds, but they don't
seem that bright ( http://www.superbrightleds.com/index.html )
I'm looking for something like the ones being used in wingtip positioning
lights - powerfull, but not in the Luxeon range ($)...
Thanks in advance
Carlos
do not archive
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp Alternator? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Check out this great link on How to convert internally regulated Alternator
to external:
http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/alternator/reassembly.htm
Best Regards,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tammy Goff" <tngoff@houston.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp
Alternator?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tammy Goff"
<tngoff@houston.rr.com>
>
> I have searched and found a little info on how to remove the internal
regulator on an alternator but still am uncomfortable digging into the
alternator to do it. I fear mixing up or not being able to find what is the
S, what is the F lead what is the ground from the alternator. I have a
Van's 40 amp alternator and will be using the B&C regulator for the Z-12
(dual alternator single battery) set up. Electricity makes me a little
nervous with the fear of smoking those rather expensive voltage regulators
(or anything else).
> Does anyone have a "how to" on removing the IR?
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Battery Desulfators (Myth, Magic or Science?) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Bob,
I have a fleet of trucks and I just got this ad from Peterbilt. Fact or
fiction?
<http://eflyer.pactools.net:7001/jsppages/OnlineFlyer/pb/us/qualityStories.jsp?strsection=parts&story_id=541&dc=W395&flyer_id=53455&user_id=42994&month_num=11>
If that link doesn't work because of line wrap, here it is as a tinyurl.
<http://tinyurl.com/bosv7>
Could this be true? What do you think?
Great question . . . I've pondered this several times and I've
had some informal discussions with numerous folks both battery
manufacturers and battery users.
Keep in mind that my professional battery experience has been
in certified aviation where the users of batteries have little
knowledge or decision making activities with respect to the
testing or use of their batteries. Aviation focuses narrowly
on maintenance history and service protocols shared by few
other industries.
To date, I've yet to discover any repeatable experiments wherein
the use of any of the varied battery desulfation techniques have
been shown to have positive return on investment.
The idea for some kind of "pulse charging" of batteries has
been around in many forms for many years. Variability between
all the suggested techniques and applications is strongly indicative
of most techniques having little or no value. I recall
a local ham radio operator citing phenomenal service life on
ordinary flashlight batteries achieved by recharging them with
half-wave rectified, unfiltered DC. You couldn't get them to
recover with pure DC charging like your car battery, the restoring
energy source had to be 60Hz pulsed power. This would have been
about 1970.
There are dozens of schemes for "rattling" the battery's
cage. One of the patented devices simply modulates the
charge current over a semi-sinusoidal protocol with a period
of seconds. Others claim benefit from shocking sulfate crystals
with high frequency energies centered on the frequency of
vulnerability for such crystals (Perhaps Capt. Picard got
the idea for rotating the modulation frequency of Phazers
to penetrate Borg shields by researching centuries old
patents for disrupting sulfate crystals in car batteries).
I purchased a "desulfator" several years ago just before
my father-in-law had a sudden and gross failure of a battery
in his car. He gave me the old battery and I attached the
de-sulfator along with a 14.4v constant current power supply.
After about a week, I cap-checked the battery and found it to
have about 4 a.h. of real capacity and about a 150A, 15 second
cranking ability. I put it back on the test charge. It drew a
much better recovery current than the first test. I tested it
again a week later. It produced about 6 a.h. and a 220A cranking
effort. Subsequent test cycles yielded only slightly
better results . . . certainly a long way from "recovering"
the battery back to some serviceable condition.
Questions
(1) did battery recovery "improve" because the desulfator
was present or would I have seen the same results from the
gentle charge-discharge cycling sans desulfator?
(2) was the battery beyond benefit for any effects the
desulfator could offer?
The real answers lie in crafting a repeatable experiment
that would, no doubt, take a lot of time and resources. I've
found several studies on the 'net that purport to answer
some of these questions but they're offered as college term
papers sold only by subscription. I'm not ready to pop for
them yet.
My friends at Concord have conducted similar and slightly
more extensive tests on several batteries removed from service
and could deduce no particular benefit from use of their
particular product . . . they too admit to the unscientific
nature of their investigation and are not prepared to either
support or trash the product.
Here are copies of three Google hits on the terms 'battery'
and 'desulfator' out of thousands. Most of the hits were for
products all of which claim to produce great returns on investment
for installing their device on your battery:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Battery/Desulfator
Note the directory "Patents" where I've posted some examples
on earlier work on extra-ordinary battery charging techniques
dating back to the 1930's
It would be interesting to do the work necessary to provide
definitive answers. I just don't have the time, resources
or motivation to do it right now. To make an accurate assessment
of using such devices on airplanes has a doubtful return on
investment . . . we've already deduced that the time and test
equipment necessary to wring the last watt-second of performance
from a premium battery in airplanes is not as attractive as
simply throwing a new cheap battery in at the beginning of each
flying season or every annual.
Once the OBAM airplane owner embarks on a maintenance protocol
to tend, desulfate, and periodically cap check and load check
the battery translates into $time$ better spent on maintaining
other, more important feature of the airframe. Certified airplane
owners are mandated to do some levels of periodic testing
and maintenance already so adding some technology like a desulfator
to their ground charging scheme would represent little ADDITIONAL
cost . . . but without a means for gathering with/without data,
the benefits of doing this would be impossible to deduce.
However, you as operator of a fleet of terrestrial vehicles
MIGHT benefit from an alternative maintenance protocol.
With a fleet of trucks there is opportunity to do some
scientific studies on the benefits for using some
product of choice. This would involve doing periodic maintenance
on one group of batteries that enjoyed the use of a desulfator/
maintainer and comparing the performance with a second set of
batteries that were periodically tested but operated as in the
past.
If you're interested in conducting a controlled study and
spending the time to gather data, I and others on the List
would certainly be available to craft the protocols, analyze
data and help craft some form of publication to share with
other inquiring minds.
For the moment, I can offer no personally acquired knowledge
that would help you select a technology or suggest some
value for using it. The devices are relatively cheap. They
probably do no harm. A simple scientific test would
be to fit half your fleet with some attractive device and
track battery replacement records . . . through at
least two or three change-outs per vehicle. This would take
a very long time but would produce useful data that would
begin to prove-disprove effectiveness if not return on
investment.
If you or anyone else becomes aware of published data about
tests conducted on such devices, I'd be pleased to know about
it.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | high brightness LEDs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:00 PM 11/26/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
>That's good advice, I do have Eric's site bookmarked for when I get to
>that stage.
>
> But I'm not trying to make position lights...
>
> Cheers
>
> Carlos
>
>Peter Laurence <PLaurence@the-beach.net> wrote: --> AeroElectric-List
>message posted by: "Peter Laurence"
I have several projects that use high-brightness leds and I've
been buying mostly from overseas suppliers off Ebay. See the
following offers as examples.
7566815107
7566048851
7367104186
Out of perhaps a dozen orders, I have only one go astray and that was
probably due to Post Office handling. Couldn't get the supplier to
replace the order but these things are so cheap that the time it would
take to raise a fuss wasn't worth the value of the order ($26). While
perhaps higher risk than walking into RS and buying a blister-pak of
two whimpy LEDs, this new group of suppliers offers bargains that offset
the risks.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: How does one remove the IR in a Van's |
40 amp Alternator?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net> 40
amp Alternator?
Ned,
This web site shows how to disassemble and reassemble a newer (1990s)
larger (60 - 90 amps) ND unit. The 40 amp unit Vans sells is a much smaller
and older design. This site might help someone who has at least
disassembled an ND alternator before. It won't help the gentleman who
requested the info. I've emailed him a copy of an older CONTACT MAGAZINE
article. That article deals with the older style ND alternators.
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
>Check out this great link on How to convert internally regulated Alternator
>to external:
>
>
>http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/alternator/reassembly.htm
>
>Best Regards,
>Ned
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tammy Goff" <tngoff@houston.rr.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp
>Alternator?
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tammy Goff"
><tngoff@houston.rr.com>
> >
> > I have searched and found a little info on how to remove the internal
>regulator on an alternator but still am uncomfortable digging into the
>alternator to do it. I fear mixing up or not being able to find what is the
>S, what is the F lead what is the ground from the alternator. I have a
>Van's 40 amp alternator and will be using the B&C regulator for the Z-12
>(dual alternator single battery) set up. Electricity makes me a little
>nervous with the fear of smoking those rather expensive voltage regulators
>(or anything else).
> > Does anyone have a "how to" on removing the IR?
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: Latching power relays? (Bob how about NO relays?) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:14 PM 11/25/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Bob:
> You are right and good point, it does weigh .15 lbs more.
>
> You also point out the return on investment. I was originally told
> when they came out they where about $70 (2x's the price of a
> typical relay). They apparently cost more like $120. I understand
> you don't understand, but people just want the best, regardless of
> the nickels and dimes or logical. There are many other things
> people spend money on that cost 6 times more but do the same
> thing, but I agree with you here. It does not seem to pay for
> itself.
>
> To be honest since it is not lighter and cost significantly more I
> am re-evaluating if I will use it. Actually I may use no relays
> (see below).
>
> As far as power not every one has a large alternator and 25 amps
>of avionics. My VFR/Day/Night/IFR lite is less than 10 amps and
>nominal 7 amps. With a 40-amp alternator saving 8-10 watts
>about 3/4 th AMP, 0.70 amps could be considered significant.
>
> As far as heat I realize that is not a factor to anything but an
> illustration of the electrical energy being wasted and turned into
> heat.
>
> NOW THE QUESTION
> WHY HAVE A MASTER RELAY AT ALL?
> WHY HAVE A FIREWALL STARTER RELAY AT ALL?
>
> http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1554/norelays9sp.jpg
>
> Run the positive battery cable direct to the starter's own solenoid,
> as in a car. For the master BUSS you could now use a little
> relay of say 40-80 amp capacity just for cockpit power. Since
> the starter current is not going thru a Master/ BAT relay, than all
> you need is a little relay. You could even use a solid state relay.
> With this wiring there are no large relays/contactors/solenoids
> except the one on the starter. This is like a car. That would save
> 1.6 lbs several large connections and about 0.80 amps. Also it
> would be less expensive.
>
> What do you think Bob? I know that people don't like the big
> wire going to the starter being HOT all the time but is there any
> real reason we need a MASTER relay with 500-700 AMP
> intermediate capacity. You could always keep the firewall starter
> relay so the big starter wire in not hot all the time..
>
> Cheers George
They are your design goals to set. I choose to apply my
talents and reasoning to fitting modern technologies into
improved architectures while retaining some past design
goals (disconnection of power sources, minimizing hot
wires for crash safety, common operability protocols and
convenience associated with certified ships, etc.).
There are hundreds of airplanes flying with purely automtoive
systems installed. No master, no extra relays for any task,
lots of always-hot wire including fat-feeders to starters.
The probability of having these design features becoming
root cause or even exacerbation of an accident
is very low compared to other reasons for bending airplanes
and breaking people.
The airplane I learned to fly in did not have a master contactor.
Only a switch in the battery lead under the passenger side
seat. Works good, lasts a long time. It didn't have starter
contactor either. There was a really fat push-button under
the pilot's seat. Also works good and lasts a long time.
If you or any other builder finds this attractive and
convenient to achieve, I sure wouldn't have any heartburn
over it. We've discussed numerous COTS products in the
marine and industrial transportation industries that might
be applicable to these efforts. If enough builders expressed
a desire to incorporate these features, I might even go to
the shop and craft a comic book on ways to achieve the
task.
Bob . . .,
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: P-mag Which Bus? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:14 AM 11/26/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell"
><pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>I am setting up my electric system for P-mags and in the Z-diagrams I see
>Bob has them set up on the main bus, but in other cases, the EI is set up on
>the battery bus. Understanding they can power themselves, which is the best
>Buss to power the P-mags?
>
>Thanks,
Any bus you like. P-mags run independent of ship's power
once the engine is running. I would suggest that E-mags
run from the battery bus and it wouldn't hurt to run P-mags
from that source also.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: How does one remove the IR in a Van's 40 amp |
Alternator?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Tammy Goff wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tammy Goff" <tngoff@houston.rr.com>
>
>I have searched and found a little info on how to remove the internal regulator
on an alternator but still am uncomfortable digging into the alternator to do
it. I fear mixing up or not being able to find what is the S, what is the F
lead what is the ground from the alternator. I have a Van's 40 amp alternator
and will be using the B&C regulator for the Z-12 (dual alternator single battery)
set up. Electricity makes me a little nervous with the fear of smoking
those rather expensive voltage regulators (or anything else).
>Does anyone have a "how to" on removing the IR?
>
Lots of people do this type of conversion, but I think your misgivings
about tearing into the alternator to be valid.
I spent many years as an electronics tech (I have the skills), & I have
no interest in modifying perfectly good alternators if over-voltage
protection can be provided in another fashion (it can be).
I worry more about ruining bearings or causing diode/regulator failure
due to my installation errors than about the ability of the alternator
mfgr to design a reliable product.
I'll bet that if you could get reliable data, you'd find that the
failure rate of modified alternators is many times higher than that of
unmodified alternators, & attributable to errors made in the modifications.
Charlie
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Bellanca starter debugging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Russell Williams" <rw_flyer@hotmail.com>
I=92m working on debugging weak starting on my Bellanca 14-19-2 Cruisemaster,
and am looking for some input & validation of ideas. Here=92s the setup:
Continental O-470 engine
Lamar 12V permanent magnet starter =96 bench checked by the factory as ok.
Concorde RG-35AXC battery =96 1 year old.
Cables forward of the firewall that jump to the starter are 2 ga copper,
about 1 foot in total length.
The battery and master relay are located just forward of the horizontal
stabilizer due to W&B. There is a 14=92 run of conductor to get from the
master relay to the firewall.
The starting behavior has been that when cold, I have to =93bump=94 the starter
to get it to go over, usually it takes 3-5 tries before it will finally kick
over and rotate freely. When warm, I=92m lucky to get it to turn over at all,
usually I get =BD rotation before it hangs up. It is not slippage in the
starter adapter, it is the starter motor. Fortunately my engine starts very
easy once it is actually turned.
Problem #1: The Bellanca designers were =93clever=94 and used a 3/8=94 aluminum
rod (covered in a vinyl sleeve for insulation) as the battery conductor up
to the firewall. The ends of the rod were smashed flat and a hole drilled
in them to make a terminal end. The firewall through-bolt was made of
steel.
Starting behavior has been progressively getting worse over the years, and a
few weeks ago started to cook the rubber booties on the terminal ends of the
battery conductor rod, with smell and a wisp of smoke in the cockpit. This
prompted a replacement.
Solution A: Rip and replace the aluminum rod with 0 ga aircraft wire.
Replace the steel firewall through-bolt with a copper threaded-rod conductor
and copper nuts. Cold starter turnover showed an improvement, but still not
reliable full turnover rotation. Required 1 maybe 2 bumps to get full
rotation (cold) going.
Problem #2: The jumper from the starter relay to the starter was getting
quite warm.
Solution B: Replace this cable with 2 ga wire and new terminal ends. The
jumper is no longer heating up, and is now measuring 0.06V drop while
cranking.
Problem #3: Measuring voltage drops on the system with the new cable, I=92m
seeing 9.2V at the battery while cranking (13V static) and 7.5V at the
starter. The positive side current path that I can measure with short
voltmeter leads (battery to master relay, master relay, jumpers from
firewall through bolt to starter relay, relay, starter relay to starter)
were measuring under 0.2V cumulative drop, and I=92m estimating another 0.35V
drop in the 14=92 cable based on a resistance calculation and estimated 250A
starter current, for a total of ~0.55V drop.
The remaining ~1.2V is in the ground return path. The engine to mount
ground is good with negligible voltage drop, but the airframe is apparently
high resistance and the airframe tubes (not the jumper cable) closest to the
battery gnd connection point are warm to medium-hot. I have tried two
different grounding points on the airframe, including jumpering the ground
point about 6=92 forward on the airframe, and in all cases the behavior
remains the same and the tubes are still getting hot.
For diagnosis I=92ve temporarily jumpered the battery ground directly to the
starter mounting stud on the engine with about 18=92 of 0 ga copper wire. The
starter now reliably turns over when cold, and no wire or terminal heating
is present. With the jumper in place I=92m getting 9.2V at the battery and
about 8.5V at the starter while cranking. I=92m attributing the discrepancy
in system voltage drop vs. the previous measurements and estimate as having
over-estimated the current draw of the starter. Assuming about a 200A draw
then the math works out given the known resistance of 0 ga wire.
I see three solution options: first is the battery =96 low cranking voltage.
Second is to put in a second copper wire for the ground side of the circuit,
running the battery ground right to the starter to bypass the high
resistance steel frame tubes. The third option is to look for a starter
with a lower current draw. I don=92t see that there=92s anything I can do about
high frame resistance in the tubing.
Questions:
9.2V at the battery while cranking seems low, indicating high internal
resistance. I don=92t have another RG-35AXC battery for comparison. My
battery is relatively new but has had a hard life of very hard starts and
deep discharges. Any ideas or measurements on what the battery should be
putting out?
Does anybody have experience with a geared starter for big bore continentals
such as the Sky-Tec C12ST3, which are claimed to have lower current draw and
higher torque? The lighter weight would also help offset the weight gain
from copper cable vs. the old aluminum conductor.
Any ideas and demonstrated experience for dealing with high tubing-frame
resistance? Short of trying multiple ground spots searching for the lowest
resistance, I can=92t think of any other techniques to fix this especially
in-situ.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Garmin 300xl/KI-202 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CardinalNSB@aol.com
In a message dated 11/26/2005 2:58:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Question, does the KI 202 have an "analog resolver", in other words,
will it talk to the 300XL to input a desired track or hold radial?
_gmcnutt@shaw.ca_ (mailto:gmcnutt@shaw.ca)
The KI-202 is shown on the Garmin installation manual Diagram, along with
the KI 206, 209A, 525A, KPI 552/b 553 a/b, Collins 331A-90, Bendix 831A, Garmin
102 102A 106A Stec ST 180. Garmin Tech told me the Trinav "C" would also
work, but didn't want to talk about ARC cdi's, and an avionics tech told me
the MC-60, Collins 350 351, would work and there are some ARC (1048? I
bought a 442A and a 443B at a hangar sale cheap, how can I tell if these will
work
with the Garmin?). I was told my Narco ID824 would not work with the
Garmin. Can anyone explain what the "resolver" is? What do I look for physically
to idenitfy a resolver?
But the Garmin Installation Manual shows the signals going through the
"annunciator" first, except in the case of the KI 209A. I don't think the
annunciator adds the resolver though. But I welcome any corrections.
The Garmins 300xl and 155xl are reasonably priced as "factory remans" (fixed
duds) and used, the older GNC300 and 155 non-moving map precursors are I
believe also appropriately tso'd for ifr approaches and are less expensive on
the used market. I think the newer portables might be more accurate (waas and
all) but I don't think they are legal for IFR. It would be nice to identify
the cdi's that will work properly, there is some nice looking ARC stuff on
ebay pretty cheap, that would make an inexpensive legal ifr gps approach
system.
One issue regarding the Garmins, some say that a current "database card" is
required to be legal, and that verification that the approaches to be used
are current is not enough, based on a reading of the installation manual.
Since I'm not up and running and not IFR rated yet, that issue has been on the
back burner. Any thoughts? Thanks for all your help, Skip
Message 16
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Subject: | Radio Panel Ground Buss |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Bob, at the Wicks seminar earlier this year, you mentioned that you would
have a radio/panel ground buss available on your site or from you shortly.
Do you have them available yet?
Thanks Bill S
7a Ark fuse panel
Message 17
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Subject: | Anti-rotation rings for toggle switches ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
I can't seem to find a source for the little anti-rotation rings that come
on a lot of toggle switches. The ones with the tab at the top and a
internal tab for the keyway on the top of most toggle switches. They
shouldn't be too hard to find since the come on most toggle switches but I
can't seem to put a hand on them. I tried Mouser and Digi-Key with no luck.
I only need about a dozen.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Bill S
RV7a Ark fuse/panel
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Dual Alternator single battery question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tammy Goff" <tngoff@houston.rr.com>
Bob, Thank you for your reply. I engaged in a little consultation (meeting on
the minds) with my helper. We have come to an understanding and will be proceeding
with things wired IAW Z-12. Thank you for the answers. George
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Anti-rotation rings for toggle switches ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <richardglick@charter.net>
Bill,
B&C Specialty Products has them, they just don't list them in there online catalog.
You can either call them or order on line. If online, enter a Miscellaneous
Part with total then in the Comments Section at Checkout, add the part numbers.
I listed all three washers/nuts on the standard switch below. I just received
my order of all three types. Perfect match.
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?6X358218
S700LW - Internal Lockwasher
S700KW - Keyway Washer(The one with the notch and tab)
S871-5 - Hexnut for switches
Good luck
Richard Glick
Slinger, WI
RV7A/Working on Canopy/Panel
>
> From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: 2005/11/27 Sun AM 12:08:13 EST
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anti-rotation rings for toggle switches ?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I can't seem to find a source for the little anti-rotation rings that come
> on a lot of toggle switches. The ones with the tab at the top and a
> internal tab for the keyway on the top of most toggle switches. They
> shouldn't be too hard to find since the come on most toggle switches but I
> can't seem to put a hand on them. I tried Mouser and Digi-Key with no luck.
> I only need about a dozen.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks Bill S
> RV7a Ark fuse/panel
>
>
>
>
>
>
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