Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Preventive Maintenance ()
2. 06:34 AM - Re: Z-24 Nusance trips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:36 AM - Re: Load allocation with dual battery system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:42 AM - Mini-EFIS Panel Considerations ()
5. 09:11 AM - Re: Off-Topic Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:14 AM - Re: Sort of related to the Z-13/8 Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:00 AM - Re: Off-Topic Question (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
8. 10:24 AM - TC regulator needed for FWF RG battery? (sportav8r@aol.com)
9. 12:27 PM - Re: Converting IR to ER (Tim Lewis)
10. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Jon's Kitfox/912S (Jon Goguen)
11. 03:03 PM - Re: Load allocation with dual battery system (Jon Goguen)
12. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Jon's Kitfox/912S (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 03:58 PM - Re: Z-24 Nusance trips (Mike Holland)
14. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Jon's Kitfox/912S (Jon Goguen)
15. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Jon's Kitfox/912S (Kevin Horton)
16. 05:18 PM - WX-900 Antenna (Richard Reynolds)
17. 06:48 PM - Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Craig Payne)
18. 07:06 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Dave Morris \)
19. 07:16 PM - four-wire 28V OV protection relay (Brian Lloyd)
20. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Jon's Kitfox/912S (JTORTHO@aol.com)
21. 08:06 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Stein Bruch)
22. 08:13 PM - Re: four-wire 28V OV protection relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 08:16 PM - Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 08:43 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Craig Payne)
25. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Jon's Kitfox/912S (Jon Goguen)
26. 09:04 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Jon Goguen)
27. 09:09 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Bob White)
28. 09:21 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Stein Bruch)
29. 09:21 PM - Re: Off-Topic Question (J. Mcculley)
30. 10:51 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Craig Payne)
31. 10:56 PM - Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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Subject: | Preventive Maintenance |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0969 1.0000 -1.4111
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Here's a question asked by an AOPA member who contacted our aviation
services staff through the AOPA Pilot Information Center. Test your
knowledge.
Question: I have an IFR-certified GPS in my aircraft. Is it required that I
make an entry into my aircraft's maintenance logbook every time I update the
database?
Answer: Yes. The FAA, under 14 CFR Part 43, Appendix A, defines what is
considered to be a major alteration, major repair, and preventive
maintenance. Updating a GPS database qualifies as preventive maintenance
that a person holding at least a private pilot certificate may perform in
this section. The FAA, under 14 CFR 91.407(a)(2), states that a maintenance
record entry must be made for any aircraft that is approved for return to
service after undergoing preventive maintenance. The entry should include,
as stated in 14 CFR 43.9(a), the date of completion of the work performed,
description of the work completed, your signature, pilot certificate grade,
and certificate number. For additional information on maintenance logbook
entries, see AOPA Online.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:51 PM 12/15/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
>
>Bob etal.
>
>Sorry I've been off the list awhile, having too much fun flying. As one
>who faithfully followed the recommendations at the time for a Vans 60amp
>internally regulated alternator I've have very few problems with the
>system with one exception, what I describe as "nuisance" trips since they
>occur only very infrequently yet often enough they are or could become a
>problem.
>
>My set up is Z13 + Z24 with an 8amp B&C replacing the left mag LSE & slick
>ignitions, Odyssey battery about 2 years old but with few flight hours,
>battery tender maintained. System charging voltages 14.5 volts indicated
>in flight at about an 8amp load without strobes and 12 amps with
>strobes. The alternator is hardly breathing.
>
>What happens occasionally is a main alternator trip under the following
>under the following circumstances; touch and goes or rapid changes in
>power settings or fluctuating power and load conditions. Such as occur
>with pattern work in class D which involves some radio work as power is
>changed rapidly.
>
>Under these conditions I sometimes discover the low voltage warning light
>and discover that the OVM has tripped the main alternator field. Power to
>idle rest the breaker and alternator comes back on-line and everything's
>hunky dory until it happens again. After 55+ hours this has happened
>about a dozen times. more or less. Most annoying.
Is your OV module purchased or DIY project? If purchased,
how long have you had it? If DIY, did you get the latest mod
incorporated? See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Crowbar_OV_Protection/Crowbar_C.pdf
>But before I start remodeling my entire wiring system or investing $800 in
>a new alternator regulator, I thought I check in to see what updates and
>mods are on the way that may solve this? Should I immediately reconnect
>my B-lead to the battery and thus forego the Z24 relay and crowbar
>protection? So far I haven't detected any Alternator damage resulting
>from the in-flight shut downs and restarts.
Thousands of the crowbar ov protection systems are in service with a
handful
of reported difficulties. ALL problem incidences reported to us
were "curable". If you've already had this many nuisance trips and
the alternator wasn't hurt, you're good to go with what's installed
after the nuisance tripping is fixed. I have no way to know how
many Z-24 systems are installed since we didn't sell "kits" specific
to the purpose. My sense is that the vast majority of the installations
are fine . . . but some alternators are vulnerable to the load-dump damage
precipitated by opening the b-lead while loaded. Without doing a
huge research project to identify root cause and suspect alternators,
I decided to "enhance" the concept such that no alternators would be
at-risk irrespective of pedigree.
If you have a purchased OV module, I'd like to get my hands
on it.
Readers need to keep in mind that there are two, completely
separate issues here. (1) nuisance tripping of the ov sensor
which can and has occurred with all kinds of circuits. I
designed and manufactured OV relays for the TC world for
decades and from time to time, unanticipated
conditions in the field caused us to revisit the design.
(2) vulnerability of some alternators to what amounts to
a forced load-dump scenario when the Z-24 b-lead contactor
is opened for any reason be it nuisance trip or pilot
operation of the alternator ON/OFF switch.
You've demonstrated that (2) is not an issue for your
system and we need to see what's needed to stop the nuisance
trips. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Load allocation with dual battery system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:36 PM 12/15/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
>
>We're working on a two-battery two-alternator system, which is no doubt
>more complex than we need, but we got to it by the following route.
>
>1) Not enough capacity in the internal Rotax PM alternator, so add
>another alternator.
>
>2) The FAA requirement that all-electric certified ships have a
>independent electrical systems for primary and back-up gyros seemed
>reasonable.
>
>3) I liked Bob's strategy of replacing one of two identical batteries
>on a regular basis.
>
>So, we're planning a Z14-like system with two 17 Ah batteries and a
>small ND alternator (40 amps) to supplement the Rotax dynamo. I've
>been giving some thought to how to dive the load between primary and
>secondary systems. (The secondary system is run by the dynamo.) My
>notion is to allocate the following to the secondary system: TC, all
>direct battery buss loads, position lights, and cranking. This makes
>the TC independent of the main electrcal system and prevents draining
>of the main battery by things that run with the master off. Using the
>secondary for cranking may also give warning of a failing battery,
>especially if I pay attention to voltage during cranking as Bob
>suggests. I will have a cross-feed, so I can crank with both batteries
>if needed. This arrangement takes some strain off the main battery,
>which should should rarely see much of a discharge cycle.
Why Z-14? Z-13 would provide plenty of backup and save you
a lot of weight and un-necessary system complexity.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Mini-EFIS Panel Considerations |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.4986 1.0000 0.0000
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
12/16/2005
Hello Frank, You raise a good point.
You wrote <<......skip.....In any case, I thought the 2 year VFR cert was a
transponder only
test...And IFR was the encoder/pitot/static test??....skip......>>
I think that whether or not the VFR cert gets involved with the altitude
encoder or not depends upon the interpretation of FAR Sec. 91.413 (b) which
reads: "Following any installation or maintenance on an ATC transponder
where data correspondence error could be introduced, the integrated system
has been tested, inspected, and found to comply with paragraph (c), appendix
E, of part 43 of this chapter."
And the title of paragraph (c), appendix E, of part 43 reads: "(c) Automatic
Pressure Altitude Reporting Equipment and ATC Transponder System Integration
Test."
I have never had just a VFR certification alone performed on an airplane by
a shop so I don't know how they interpret 91.413 (b). Can anyone enlighten
me? Thanks.
OC
<<Hi OC, As far as removal goes it's a piece of cake...simply a screw on the
front...As long as the thing has power/ground and a pressure it will
show altitude.
If I was faced with having to remove the EFIS I would probably make up a
D sub with the apprpriate wires to save the shop any (expensive)
confusion...:)
In any case, I thought the 2 year VFR cert was a transponder only
test...And IFR was the encoder/pitot/static test?? Frank>>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Off-Topic Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:08 PM 12/15/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley"
><mcculleyja@starpower.net>
>
>This is not directly related to aviation, but I'm sure there are some
>people on this list who will find my question pretty elementary.
>
>On most older TV sets, when plugging into the installed audio outlets
>for external speakers,headsets,recorders,etc, the TV's internal speaker
>becomes inoperative. Some newer sets provide a screen display allowing a
>person to choose listening to the internal speaker while a second person
>listens to headsets. This is useful when the volume levels need to be
>different due to hearing deficiency of one of the persons. Isn't there a
>simple way to re-wire the older TV audio output line such that the
>output can be fed to both the internal speaker and the headsets
>simultaneously? Any help will be appreciated.
Years ago, I added a small AM radio transmitter to the
inside of a television set so that someone could listen
to TV on a transistor radio and headphones whether the
speaker on the TV was turned up or not.
I did this for a neighbor woman who's husband was going
deaf and hated hearing aids. He liked to watch TV but
had the volume so high that the whole neighborhood knew
what he was watching.
He didn't mind the headphones so the dual path audio
system took care of his needs as well as the comfort of
others in the house/neighborhood.
The task you've suggested can be done with relatively
simple wiring but you'd have to add some independent
volume controls for speaker and headset output and then
leave the set's volume set relatively high so that both
users had adequate signal levels.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Sort of related to the Z-13/8 Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:03 PM 12/15/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers"
><glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have a similar situation with a Z-19 architecture and rear mounted
>batteries. I was thinking of putting an external splice on the heavy wire
>behind the IP, which will make for a pretty short bus feed, rather than a
>much longer run through the firewall to the contactor. Is that something
>you would recommend or discourage?
We do things like this in big airplanes. They dont call
it a splice, they just break the big feeder, install
terminals and tie it to an insulated stud. Branch feeders
can come off that stud as needed. You could simply cut
away 2" of feeder insulation, 2" of tap insulation,
lay bared wires parallel and wrap with layer of
solid strand copper, say 20AWG. Solder and cover
with heatshrink.
"Messy" but functional and not un-safe.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Off-Topic Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
That's neighborly but I want to know what you replaced the pear trees with! :-)
do not archive.
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> At 10:08 PM 12/15/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley"
> >
> >
> >This is not directly related to aviation, but I'm sure there are some
> >people on this list who will find my question pretty elementary.
> >
> >On most older TV sets, when plugging into the installed audio outlets
> >for external speakers,headsets,recorders,etc, the TV's internal speaker
> >becomes inoperative. Some newer sets provide a screen display allowing a
> >person to choose listening to the internal speaker while a second person
> >listens to headsets. This is useful when the volume levels need to be
> >different due to hearing deficiency of one of the persons. Isn't there a
> >simple way to re-wire the older TV audio output line such that the
> >output can be fed to both the internal speaker and the headsets
> >simultaneously? Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Years ago, I added a small AM radio transmitter to the
> inside of a television set so that someone could listen
> to TV on a transistor radio and headphones whether the
> speaker on the TV was turned up or not.
>
> I did this for a neighbor woman who's husband was going
> deaf and hated hearing aids. He liked to watch TV but
> had the volume so high that the whole neighborhood knew
> what he was watching.
>
> He didn't mind the headphones so the dual path audio
> system took care of his needs as well as the comfort of
> others in the house/neighborhood.
>
> The task you've suggested can be done with relatively
> simple wiring but you'd have to add some independent
> volume controls for speaker and headset output and then
> leave the set's volume set relatively high so that both
> users had adequate signal levels.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
That's neighborly but I want to know what you replaced the pear trees with! :-)
do not archive.
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" nuckollsr@cox.net
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<NUCKOLLSR@COX.NET>
At 10:08 PM 12/15/2005 -0500, you wrote:
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley"
<MCCULLEYJA@STARPOWER.NET>
This is not directly related to aviation, but I'm sure there are some
people on this list who will find my question pretty elementary.
On most older TV sets, when plugging into the installed audio outlets
for external speakers,headsets,recorders,etc, the TV's internal speaker
becomes inoperative. Some newer sets provide a screen display allowing a
person to choose listening to the internal spea
ker while a second person
listens to headsets. This is useful when the volume levels need to be
different due to hearing deficiency of one of the persons. Isn't there a
simple way to re-wire the older TV audio output line such that the
output can be fed to both the internal speaker and the headsets
simultaneously? Any help will be appreciated.
Years ago, I added a small AM radio transmitter to the
inside of a television set so that someone could listen
to TV on a transistor radio and headphones whether the
speaker on the TV was turned up or not.
I did this for a neighbor woman who's husband was going
deaf and hated hearing aids. He liked to watch TV but
had the volume so high that the whole neighborhood knew
what he was watching.
He didn't mind the headphones so the dual path audio
system took ca
re of his needs as well as the comfort of
others in the house/neighborhood.
The task you've suggested can be done with relatively
simple wiring but you'd have to add some independent
volume controls for speaker and headset output and then
leave the set's volume set relatively high so that both
users had adequate signal levels.
Bob . . .
ntribution Web Site -
Message 8
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Subject: | TC regulator needed for FWF RG battery? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Bob:
seeking your opinion on the advisability of using a temp-compensating regulator
such as the LR-3 if I decide to move my Odyssey PC-628 to the forward side of
the RV-6 firewall. In light of the recent temp data posted here from the well-instrumented
engine compartment of a WittmanTailwind, I'm not sure I need to
spend $318 on regulation hardware to keep my Odyssey RG battery happy for 1-2
yrs before its scheduled replacement.
Thanks!
-Bill Boyd
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Converting IR to ER |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
Photos and text from my alternator conversion are at:
<http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/alternator.htm>
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 790 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Charlie Kuss wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle"
>><mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
>>
>>Mark,
>>There was an article on how to convert the Mitsubishi alternator in
>>Contact Magazine some years back. I think it was issue #19, but not
>>sure. Check their web site and order the issue. It will walk you
>>through the process.
>>
>>Mark Steitle
>
>
> That Contact Magazine article also shows how to convert ND alternators as
> well.
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
Not more than light IFR (at least intentionally). The internal
alternator is really marginal for night IFR , mostly because of the
lighting load. It's good for about 18 amps. The position lights and
strobes we have use about 12.5 of that , which doesn't leave much. We
initially considered switching to LED position lights and other
strategies for load reduction, but all things considered decided more
electrical power was a better choice. Once we got to two alternators,
we decided to go with an all-electric panel and and get rid of the
vacuum system. With the all-electric panel, I wanted to maintain a
gyro that was as independent of the main electrical system as the
vacuum gyro would have been. Thus the Z14-like configuration with two
batteries and two fully independent electrical systems having no common
single point of failure. Two batteries also had the advantage of
allowing routine replacement of one on a regular basis as suggested by
Bob. It also shares the load between alternators both of which are
active all the time, so one knows on a routine basis that both systems
are working. Z13-20 doesn't provide the same level of redundancy,
because all electrical power depends on the single battery.
Disconnection of a battery lead, for example, could bring everything
down. (I've recently realized that this wouldn't be true for us,
because the secondary alternator is a permanent magnet one, and might
run well with the battery off line.) Also, an electrical event that
required immediate opening of either master switch would leave a gyro
active with no other action required. Finally, since the backup
alternator in Z13 sin't usually doing anything, it does require
periodic testing to know if it works.
The weight penalty for the two-battery system and the extra contactors
required are the big disadvantages. We plan to minimize this by using
relatively small batteries (12 Ah), and are also looking into
alternatives that minimize contactor weight. We're also reconsidering
Z13, but aren't convinced that it is necessarily more reliable with
respect to maintaining independent gyros than a conventional system
with vacuum backing up electrical failure. If it weren't for the
independent gyro issue, Z13 would be the choice.
Perhaps we've slid down the slippery slope of excessive
redundancy--with an initial push from the puny Rotax alternator--and
I'm happy to hear all arguments in favor of simpler systems. The key
point for me is how much electrical system is necessary to be better
than electric plus vacuum when electrical failures are considered.
Jon
Jon Goguen
jon.goguen@umassmed.edu
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics
"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Dec 15, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Rodney Dunham wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham"
> <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
>
> Jon,
>
> Well, since you invited comments...
>
> What in the world are you going to be doing with a Kitfox/912S that
> would
> require such a beefy electrical system???
>
> Rodney in Tennessee
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Load allocation with dual battery system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
Please see my reply to "Jon's Kitfox 912S"
Jon Goguen
jon.goguen@umassmed.edu
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics
"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Dec 16, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 06:36 PM 12/15/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen
>> <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
>>
>> We're working on a two-battery two-alternator system, which is no
>> doubt
>> more complex than we need, but we got to it by the following route.
>>
>> 1) Not enough capacity in the internal Rotax PM alternator, so add
>> another alternator.
>>
>> 2) The FAA requirement that all-electric certified ships have a
>> independent electrical systems for primary and back-up gyros seemed
>> reasonable.
>>
>> 3) I liked Bob's strategy of replacing one of two identical batteries
>> on a regular basis.
>>
>> So, we're planning a Z14-like system with two 17 Ah batteries and a
>> small ND alternator (40 amps) to supplement the Rotax dynamo. I've
>> been giving some thought to how to dive the load between primary and
>> secondary systems. (The secondary system is run by the dynamo.) My
>> notion is to allocate the following to the secondary system: TC, all
>> direct battery buss loads, position lights, and cranking. This makes
>> the TC independent of the main electrcal system and prevents draining
>> of the main battery by things that run with the master off. Using the
>> secondary for cranking may also give warning of a failing battery,
>> especially if I pay attention to voltage during cranking as Bob
>> suggests. I will have a cross-feed, so I can crank with both
>> batteries
>> if needed. This arrangement takes some strain off the main battery,
>> which should should rarely see much of a discharge cycle.
>
> Why Z-14? Z-13 would provide plenty of backup and save you
> a lot of weight and un-necessary system complexity.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Light IFR...In Kitfox?
You're a braver man than me....:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Goguen
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen
--> <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
Not more than light IFR (at least intentionally). The internal
alternator is really marginal for night IFR , mostly because of the
lighting load. It's good for about 18 amps. The position lights and
strobes we have use about 12.5 of that , which doesn't leave much. We
initially considered switching to LED position lights and other
strategies for load reduction, but all things considered decided more
electrical power was a better choice. Once we got to two alternators,
we decided to go with an all-electric panel and and get rid of the
vacuum system. With the all-electric panel, I wanted to maintain a gyro
that was as independent of the main electrical system as the vacuum gyro
would have been. Thus the Z14-like configuration with two batteries and
two fully independent electrical systems having no common
single point of failure. Two batteries also had the advantage of
allowing routine replacement of one on a regular basis as suggested by
Bob. It also shares the load between alternators both of which are
active all the time, so one knows on a routine basis that both systems
are working. Z13-20 doesn't provide the same level of redundancy,
because all electrical power depends on the single battery.
Disconnection of a battery lead, for example, could bring everything
down. (I've recently realized that this wouldn't be true for us,
because the secondary alternator is a permanent magnet one, and might
run well with the battery off line.) Also, an electrical event that
required immediate opening of either master switch would leave a gyro
active with no other action required. Finally, since the backup
alternator in Z13 sin't usually doing anything, it does require periodic
testing to know if it works.
The weight penalty for the two-battery system and the extra contactors
required are the big disadvantages. We plan to minimize this by using
relatively small batteries (12 Ah), and are also looking into
alternatives that minimize contactor weight. We're also reconsidering
Z13, but aren't convinced that it is necessarily more reliable with
respect to maintaining independent gyros than a conventional system with
vacuum backing up electrical failure. If it weren't for the independent
gyro issue, Z13 would be the choice.
Perhaps we've slid down the slippery slope of excessive redundancy--with
an initial push from the puny Rotax alternator--and I'm happy to hear
all arguments in favor of simpler systems. The key point for me is how
much electrical system is necessary to be better than electric plus
vacuum when electrical failures are considered.
Jon
Jon Goguen
jon.goguen@umassmed.edu
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics
"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Dec 15, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Rodney Dunham wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham"
> <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
>
> Jon,
>
> Well, since you invited comments...
>
> What in the world are you going to be doing with a Kitfox/912S that
> would
> require such a beefy electrical system???
>
> Rodney in Tennessee
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
Bob, reposes to your questions -
"Is your OV module purchased or DIY project? If purchased,
how long have you had it? If DIY, did you get the latest mod
incorporated?"
It was purchased from B&C, OVM-14 on 10/9/2003.
"If you have a purchased OV module, I'd like to get my hands
on it."
I can pull it and send to you but this raises other questions. Will this lead
to any safety problems? I can appreciate your difficulty answering a question
like that so let me rephrase it - Should I purchase and install a replacement
before I send you the existing one?
It wired directly to the circuit breaker and ignition switch so it won't be much
trouble to get to and remove. I just don't want a current annoyance to become
a bigger problem, if you know what I mean. I'm based at Chino if you are somewhere
area I can fly to your shop and we may be able to figure out what is
going and post it to the list.
Thanks
Mike
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
Frank,
It's nice to fly safely at night with a poor horizon, during the day
with lousy visibility and limitred ground contact, and to climb through
clouds to get on top. I don't intend to fool with real weather.
Jon
Do not archive
Jon D. Goguen, Ph. D.
Department of Molecular Genetics and Microbiology
University of Massachusetts Medical School
55 Lake Avenue North
Worcester, MA 01655
Phone 508.856.2490
Fax 508.856.5920
On Dec 16, 2005, at 6:22 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Light IFR...In Kitfox?
>
> You're a braver man than me....:)
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon
> Goguen
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen
> --> <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
>
> Not more than light IFR (at least intentionally). The internal
> alternator is really marginal for night IFR , mostly because of the
> lighting load. It's good for about 18 amps. The position lights and
> strobes we have use about 12.5 of that , which doesn't leave much. We
> initially considered switching to LED position lights and other
> strategies for load reduction, but all things considered decided more
> electrical power was a better choice. Once we got to two alternators,
> we decided to go with an all-electric panel and and get rid of the
> vacuum system. With the all-electric panel, I wanted to maintain a
> gyro
> that was as independent of the main electrical system as the vacuum
> gyro
> would have been. Thus the Z14-like configuration with two batteries
> and
> two fully independent electrical systems having no common
> single point of failure. Two batteries also had the advantage of
> allowing routine replacement of one on a regular basis as suggested by
> Bob. It also shares the load between alternators both of which are
> active all the time, so one knows on a routine basis that both systems
> are working. Z13-20 doesn't provide the same level of redundancy,
> because all electrical power depends on the single battery.
> Disconnection of a battery lead, for example, could bring everything
> down. (I've recently realized that this wouldn't be true for us,
> because the secondary alternator is a permanent magnet one, and might
> run well with the battery off line.) Also, an electrical event that
> required immediate opening of either master switch would leave a gyro
> active with no other action required. Finally, since the backup
> alternator in Z13 sin't usually doing anything, it does require
> periodic
> testing to know if it works.
>
> The weight penalty for the two-battery system and the extra contactors
> required are the big disadvantages. We plan to minimize this by using
> relatively small batteries (12 Ah), and are also looking into
> alternatives that minimize contactor weight. We're also reconsidering
> Z13, but aren't convinced that it is necessarily more reliable with
> respect to maintaining independent gyros than a conventional system
> with
> vacuum backing up electrical failure. If it weren't for the
> independent
> gyro issue, Z13 would be the choice.
>
> Perhaps we've slid down the slippery slope of excessive
> redundancy--with
> an initial push from the puny Rotax alternator--and I'm happy to hear
> all arguments in favor of simpler systems. The key point for me is how
> much electrical system is necessary to be better than electric plus
> vacuum when electrical failures are considered.
>
> Jon
>
> Jon Goguen
> jon.goguen@umassmed.edu
> Central Massachusetts
> Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
> Complete except for electrics and avionics
>
> "Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
> --Woody Allen
> On Dec 15, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Rodney Dunham wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham"
>> <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Jon,
>>
>> Well, since you invited comments...
>>
>> What in the world are you going to be doing with a Kitfox/912S that
>> would
>> require such a beefy electrical system???
>>
>> Rodney in Tennessee
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Re: RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 16 Dec 2005, at 18:22, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Light IFR...In Kitfox?
>
> You're a braver man than me....:)
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
One of my biggest concerns about flying IFR in a single-engined
aircraft is what happens if an engine fails. Once you go in that
cloud you have no way to control how much altitude there is between
the bottom of cloud and the ground. If your engine fails, you may
find that you don't have much time to pick a decent landing spot once
you come out the bottom of the cloud. A Kitfox has quite a low wing
loading, and hence a very low stall speed. Steel tube fuselages
probably give better surviveability than any other construction
material, as the steel tube tends to deform rather than crumple or
splinter, and it forms a natural roll cage.
Kitfoxes aren't my cup of tea, but IFR in a Kitfox may be safer than
IFR in an RV, at least from the point of view of the engine failure
scenario.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 16
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|
AeroElectric AeroElectric <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.4981 1.0000 0.0000
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds@macs.net>
My WX-900 antenna is not repairable. It failed after approximately
170 tach hours.
L-3 Communications Avionics Systems has not retuned it per my request
of Nov 9, 2005.
Question:
Has any one had good service experience with the WX-900 antenna?
Has any one had good service experience with L-3 Communications
Avionics Systems?
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk, VA
RV-6A
Message 17
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|
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
Subject: | Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html. Question is:
where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because the wrong
ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good ones that
use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
-- Craig
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
I know Bob doesn't like those strippers in the first photograph of that
article, and I know he's really good at using the el-cheapo kind. I grew
up stripping wire with my teeth, but it's hard to do that with Tefzel, and
now that I'm an adult I pay more attention to dental costs. I tried the
really really el-cheapo plastic kind like you get for free with your "cold
soldering iron", and they really damage the wire. I wouldn't wish them on
my worst enemy. But I swear by that little gadget in the first photo in
his article. I don't remember where I got mine, probably Radio Shack. It
works like an absolute champ for me, and I'll never go back to the teeth or
the swiss army knife (which works OK too if you're very careful, but takes
way too long).
How's that for a non-answer
Dave Morris
N5UP
At 08:47 PM 12/16/2005, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
><craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html. Question is:
>where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because the wrong
>ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good ones that
>use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
>location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
>
>-- Craig
>
>
Message 19
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|
Subject: | four-wire 28V OV protection relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Does anyone make a four-wire 28V OV protection relay? I actually need
one that will open the field circuit between the regulator and a
generator so I need it to have just a set of contacts that opens and
latches open on OV.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JTORTHO@aol.com
Jon
You have stated my feelings exactly. My project is a searey, another less
then ideal IFR platform, but I would like the security of the right tools to get
home safely.
Also using a 912s with the same load demands. So which alternator are you
using?
Jim
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
The real quick and easy way to tell is price. The "Die" type strippers are
normally well north of $100.00 in price (typically $150-300). If they are
priced less than that, then it's highly unlikely that they are die type
strippers.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html. Question is:
where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because the wrong
ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good ones that
use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
-- Craig
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: four-wire 28V OV protection relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:16 PM 12/16/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>Does anyone make a four-wire 28V OV protection relay? I actually need
>one that will open the field circuit between the regulator and a
>generator so I need it to have just a set of contacts that opens and
>latches open on OV.
If it's non-certified, I can build you one.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 03:56 PM 12/16/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
>
>Bob, reposes to your questions -
>
>"Is your OV module purchased or DIY project? If purchased,
> how long have you had it? If DIY, did you get the latest mod
> incorporated?"
>
>It was purchased from B&C, OVM-14 on 10/9/2003.
Okay, That should be the latest configuration.
> "If you have a purchased OV module, I'd like to get my hands
> on it."
>
>I can pull it and send to you but this raises other questions. Will this
>lead to any safety problems? I can appreciate your difficulty answering a
>question like that so let me rephrase it - Should I purchase and install a
>replacement before I send you the existing one?
No, I'll turn yours very quickly and real ov conditions
are very rare.
>It wired directly to the circuit breaker and ignition switch so it won't
>be much trouble to get to and remove. I just don't want a current
>annoyance to become a bigger problem, if you know what I mean. I'm based
>at Chino if you are somewhere area I can fly to your shop and we may be
>able to figure out what is going and post it to the list.
I'm in Wichita KS. Priority mail to
Bob Nuckolls
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226
Bob . . .
Message 24
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Subject: | Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
And what if it looks different and costs something in-between?
http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/6800-0025/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
Bruch
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
--> <stein@steinair.com>
The real quick and easy way to tell is price. The "Die" type strippers are
normally well north of $100.00 in price (typically $150-300). If they are
priced less than that, then it's highly unlikely that they are die type
strippers.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html. Question is:
where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because the wrong
ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good ones that
use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
-- Craig
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: RE: Jon's Kitfox/912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
We have a little (6 lbs, 40 amps) new manufacture internally regulated
Nippon Denso that cost $115 from a local supplier. I don't have the
part # in my office (were I still am, unfortunately), but can get it to
you later. We will probably go with the internal regulator rather than
converting for external regulation, which would not be very diffiicult
if desired. Now comes the complex part. The Rotax external alternator
drive kit won't fit under the cowl. Rather than modify the cowl, we
designed a drive to work from the vacuum pump pad. Coupling the
alternator directly to the vacuum pump drive internal spline doesn't
give high enough rpm. This is why the SD20 from B&C gives only 13 amps
or so on a 912S. Our system mounts a pulley on the pad and drives the
alternator with a belt to increase the rpm. The parts are currently in
process at a local machine shop. I will post pictures and let folks
now how well it works when we get it up and running. Using the Rotax
external drive would be much easier if it fits in your ship. It might
have been easier to modify the cowl in our case, but momentum for the
vacuum pad solution got hold of us.
Jon
Jon Goguen
jon.goguen@umassmed.edu
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics
"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Dec 16, 2005, at 10:19 PM, JTORTHO@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JTORTHO@aol.com
>
> Jon
> You have stated my feelings exactly. My project is a searey, another
> less
> then ideal IFR platform, but I would like the security of the right
> tools to get
> home safely.
>
> Also using a 912s with the same load demands. So which alternator are
> you
> using?
>
> Jim
>
>
Message 26
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|
Subject: | Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
I wonder if filing a slight flat on the sharp edge of Stripmaster
clones would give results similar to the high dollar tools. Think I'll
give it a try.
Jon
Jon D. Goguen, Ph. D.
Department of Molecular Genetics and Microbiology
University of Massachusetts Medical School
55 Lake Avenue North
Worcester, MA 01655
Phone 508.856.2490
Fax 508.856.5920
On Dec 16, 2005, at 10:07 PM, Dave Morris "BigD" wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
> <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
> I know Bob doesn't like those strippers in the first photograph of that
> article, and I know he's really good at using the el-cheapo kind. I
> grew
> up stripping wire with my teeth, but it's hard to do that with Tefzel,
> and
> now that I'm an adult I pay more attention to dental costs. I tried
> the
> really really el-cheapo plastic kind like you get for free with your
> "cold
> soldering iron", and they really damage the wire. I wouldn't wish
> them on
> my worst enemy. But I swear by that little gadget in the first photo
> in
> his article. I don't remember where I got mine, probably Radio Shack.
> It
> works like an absolute champ for me, and I'll never go back to the
> teeth or
> the swiss army knife (which works OK too if you're very careful, but
> takes
> way too long).
>
> How's that for a non-answer
>
> Dave Morris
> N5UP
>
> At 08:47 PM 12/16/2005, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
>> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>>
>> Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html.
>> Question is:
>> where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because
>> the wrong
>> ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good
>> ones that
>> use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
>> location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:39:20 -0700
"Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> And what if it looks different and costs something in-between?
>
> http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/6800-0025/
>
> -- Craig
>
Hi Craig,
I was just composing a reply to mention that stripper. I have one with
the Teflon blades and it does a good job on Tefzel. Sometimes I have to
grip the wire just in front of the jaws to give it a little assistance.
Bob W.
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe next week)
Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 28
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|
Subject: | Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
That's still not a true "mil spec" die type stripper. Anytime you see the
words "self adjusting" you can gaurantee a certain lack of detailed
accuracy.
That being said, I'm not saying you have to buy the die type strippers at
all, because personally I don't think thats the case (although I'll probably
be chastised for that). I do however think a good set of strippers can be
used that costs a whole lot less than the high buck ones...even the middle
of the line Ideal or AMP brand stripmasters (which have interchangeable dies
including the compression die type for the same frame). We have the die
type strippers in automated and pneumatic strippers in my shop, but then
that's for use in producing a LOT of wiring harnesses for various OEM mfgrs,
so we're required to do that. For your own GA airplane the likelyhood that
one small microscopic nick on a wire that carries low current DC or signals
will cause a catastrophe is nil in reality (although some will disagree).
Completely different case with the high frequency and high voltage AC that
many of the high performance jet/military aircraft use in their wiring (i.e.
Swissair111).
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
And what if it looks different and costs something in-between?
http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/6800-0025/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
Bruch
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
--> <stein@steinair.com>
The real quick and easy way to tell is price. The "Die" type strippers are
normally well north of $100.00 in price (typically $150-300). If they are
priced less than that, then it's highly unlikely that they are die type
strippers.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html. Question is:
where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because the wrong
ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good ones that
use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
-- Craig
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Subject: | Re: Off-Topic Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>
Thanks to the several people who responded to my request for help. The
suggestions were right on target and I now have the system working as I
had hoped for. Another excellent example of the power of this technical
list and all the fine brains that make it possible.
Jim McCulley
J. Mcculley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>
>
> This is not directly related to aviation, but I'm sure there are some
> people on this list who will find my question pretty elementary. <SNIP>
> Jim McCulley
> 180 HP Tailwind
Message 30
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Subject: | Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I'm more worried about the mechanical performance of a nicked wire than its
electrical one. Given that the nick would be right where the insulation
stops it can be hard to see. And a bend in the wire at that point could
expand the nick into a crack or complete break. Now since most of these
wires will be crimped into insulated Fastons the insulation would offer some
strain-relief and prevent a 90 degree bend at the hypothetical nick's
location. But that seems like a band-aid to me, But sharp bends at the point
where the wire departs the connector is poor wiring style.
I would continue using my time-tested approach (also described at the end of
Bob's monograph) - just use a cheap pair of strippers with the spring and
stop-nut removed and strip by feel. But I find this harder with Tefzel.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
Bruch
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
--> <stein@steinair.com>
That's still not a true "mil spec" die type stripper. Anytime you see the
words "self adjusting" you can gaurantee a certain lack of detailed
accuracy.
That being said, I'm not saying you have to buy the die type strippers at
all, because personally I don't think thats the case (although I'll probably
be chastised for that). I do however think a good set of strippers can be
used that costs a whole lot less than the high buck ones...even the middle
of the line Ideal or AMP brand stripmasters (which have interchangeable dies
including the compression die type for the same frame). We have the die
type strippers in automated and pneumatic strippers in my shop, but then
that's for use in producing a LOT of wiring harnesses for various OEM mfgrs,
so we're required to do that. For your own GA airplane the likelyhood that
one small microscopic nick on a wire that carries low current DC or signals
will cause a catastrophe is nil in reality (although some will disagree).
Completely different case with the high frequency and high voltage AC that
many of the high performance jet/military aircraft use in their wiring (i.e.
Swissair111).
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
And what if it looks different and costs something in-between?
http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/6800-0025/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
Bruch
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
--> <stein@steinair.com>
The real quick and easy way to tell is price. The "Die" type strippers are
normally well north of $100.00 in price (typically $150-300). If they are
priced less than that, then it's highly unlikely that they are die type
strippers.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html. Question is:
where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because the wrong
ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good ones that
use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
-- Craig
Message 31
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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|
Subject: | Good "no nick" wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Now that I think about it my proceeding analysis about nick propagation is
nonsense because we are dealing with stranded wire, not solid. Excuse me
while I slap myself around a bit.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
Bruch
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
--> <stein@steinair.com>
That's still not a true "mil spec" die type stripper. Anytime you see the
words "self adjusting" you can gaurantee a certain lack of detailed
accuracy.
That being said, I'm not saying you have to buy the die type strippers at
all, because personally I don't think thats the case (although I'll probably
be chastised for that). I do however think a good set of strippers can be
used that costs a whole lot less than the high buck ones...even the middle
of the line Ideal or AMP brand stripmasters (which have interchangeable dies
including the compression die type for the same frame). We have the die
type strippers in automated and pneumatic strippers in my shop, but then
that's for use in producing a LOT of wiring harnesses for various OEM mfgrs,
so we're required to do that. For your own GA airplane the likelyhood that
one small microscopic nick on a wire that carries low current DC or signals
will cause a catastrophe is nil in reality (although some will disagree).
Completely different case with the high frequency and high voltage AC that
many of the high performance jet/military aircraft use in their wiring (i.e.
Swissair111).
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
And what if it looks different and costs something in-between?
http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/6800-0025/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
Bruch
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
--> <stein@steinair.com>
The real quick and easy way to tell is price. The "Die" type strippers are
normally well north of $100.00 in price (typically $150-300). If they are
priced less than that, then it's highly unlikely that they are die type
strippers.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good "no nick" wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Bob gives the anatomy of a good "no nick" wire stripper at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html. Question is:
where can I buy one? In most web stores it is hard to tell because the wrong
ones with sharp cutting blades are hard to separate from the good ones that
use notch-sensitivity to "pull" the insulation apart at a controlled
location. Any pointers to where I can find the "right" stripper?
-- Craig
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