Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:16 AM - Mini-EFIS Panel Considerations ()
2. 07:11 AM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Ken)
3. 08:42 AM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Kevin Horton)
4. 09:57 AM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Ken)
5. 01:18 PM - Rotax vaccum pad alternator failures? ()
6. 01:41 PM - Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor ()
7. 04:04 PM - Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor (Charlie England)
8. 04:13 PM - Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 04:35 PM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Jerry Grimmonpre)
10. 06:24 PM - Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor (Eric M. Jones)
11. 07:18 PM - Re: Converting IR to ER (Mark R. Supinski)
12. 08:28 PM - Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor (AI Nut)
13. 11:15 PM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Mini-EFIS Panel Considerations |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.1256 1.0000 -1.2416
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Bill
Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
<<I have a question... If you are using an EFIS, with a built-in encoder,
how is this type of
checking done? It would be a real pain having to remove an EFIS every time
the check was
needed...>>
12/18/2005
Hello Bill, Exactly the point I raised in my 12/15/2005 posting on this
subject----- "Removing and reinstalling the altimeter and encoder can be a
real nuisance and costly if you have the shop do it. How easy is it going to
be to remove and reinstall the EFIS yourself?"
It may be possible to build in both electronic and pressure / static
external connection points to your system as part of the initial
installation that would allow the shop technician to do his testing job
without removing the EFIS from the airplane.
But even if you do provide external test equipment connection points suppose
the encoder needs calibration adjustment? How is that done, or ever even
needed for a digital unit?
I would suggest that the owners of these kinds of units contact the unit
manufacturer and get the manufacturer's suggestions regarding the best way
to accomplish the IFR cert requirements.
Please pass on anything learned. Thanks.
OC
PS: It is obvious that my local shop much prefers that the altimeter and
encoder be brought into the shop and put into their chamber for testing, any
calibration, and data recording. Yes, they have the mobile equipment to do
it at plane side, but it is much more convenient / quicker / reliable for
them to have their expert inside bench guy do the testing and calibration in
the shop than have the mobile technician do it at plane side. The mobile
technician may even encounter "difficulties" that require the items to be
removed (at greater expense unless the customers does it) even if the
customer's intent is to have the entire test done at plane side.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Mickey
So it seems that an alternator failure or even a broken battery terminal
would not stop the engine since normal operation would have both
batteries paralleled. Sounds like you've already got the power supply
covered. IMO there is little point in further trying to cater to a
double unrelated failure as far as a source of power is concerned. As it
is, after an alternator failure you even have the option of opening both
battery contactors to conserve power until the primary battery is drained.
One of the things I did with wiring was to run a separate wire from two
different ecu ground pins all the way back to the forest of tabs. Of
course if one of those wires disconnected, I'd never know about it until
the second one also disconnected. I'm rambling here but I suppose you
could always do something similar on the positive side and run two wires
from the two power pins all the way to the same battery bus. I'd guess
that might be overkill though (two switches?, two fuses?). Decent
wiring is probably more reliable than several of the other components.
Now that I've wired mine according to what I've learned here, I find I'm
really not very concerned about wire reliability any more.
Ken
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi Ken,
>
>Thanks for the info. I'll check the computer with an ohm meter
>tomorrow. My batteries will be in parallel when each
>of the battery contactors is on. This will be the normal
>case. In a very extreme case, I may be running only on the
>battery bus.
>
>You are totally correct about the other points of failure.
>I'm doing everything I can to add redundancy. In places
>where there is only one path, I want to make sure that
>path is as robust as possible.
>
>My diagram is based on Z11 + Z30 with a Perihelion IR
>alternator OVP thrown in for a bit of spice.
>
>http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>
>Best regards,
>Mickey
>
>
snip
>>>I think having two physical connections to the ECU
>>>will reduce the chance of failure due to mechanical
>>>problems.
>>>
snip
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
If you have redundant power and ground paths (which is probably a
good idea for items that would kill the engine if they lost power),
you really ought to come up with a way to confirm all paths are
working on some sort of periodic basis. Maybe there could be a check
as part of the annual conditional inspection. Otherwise, as you
noted, one of the redundant paths could be inoperative, and you would
have no way to know until you needed it.
Kevin Horton
On 18 Dec 2005, at 10:11, Ken wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
> Mickey
>
> So it seems that an alternator failure or even a broken battery
> terminal
> would not stop the engine since normal operation would have both
> batteries paralleled. Sounds like you've already got the power supply
> covered. IMO there is little point in further trying to cater to a
> double unrelated failure as far as a source of power is concerned.
> As it
> is, after an alternator failure you even have the option of opening
> both
> battery contactors to conserve power until the primary battery is
> drained.
>
> One of the things I did with wiring was to run a separate wire from
> two
> different ecu ground pins all the way back to the forest of tabs. Of
> course if one of those wires disconnected, I'd never know about it
> until
> the second one also disconnected. I'm rambling here but I suppose you
> could always do something similar on the positive side and run two
> wires
> from the two power pins all the way to the same battery bus. I'd guess
> that might be overkill though (two switches?, two fuses?). Decent
> wiring is probably more reliable than several of the other components.
> Now that I've wired mine according to what I've learned here, I
> find I'm
> really not very concerned about wire reliability any more.
>
> Ken
>
> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-
>> matronics@rv8.ch>
>>
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I'll check the computer with an ohm meter
>> tomorrow. My batteries will be in parallel when each
>> of the battery contactors is on. This will be the normal
>> case. In a very extreme case, I may be running only on the
>> battery bus.
>>
>> You are totally correct about the other points of failure.
>> I'm doing everything I can to add redundancy. In places
>> where there is only one path, I want to make sure that
>> path is as robust as possible.
>>
>> My diagram is based on Z11 + Z30 with a Perihelion IR
>> alternator OVP thrown in for a bit of spice.
>>
>> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mickey
>>
>>
> snip
>
>>>> I think having two physical connections to the ECU
>>>> will reduce the chance of failure due to mechanical
>>>> problems.
>>>>
> snip
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Yes good advice and with push on PIDG connectors it wouldn't be
difficult to pull off individual wires to check periodically.
My own system is similar to Z-14, with another set of injectors and an
independant Megasquirt engine control system running in standby should I
have any problem with the subaru system. Preflight will test both.
Ken
Kevin Horton wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>If you have redundant power and ground paths (which is probably a
>good idea for items that would kill the engine if they lost power),
>you really ought to come up with a way to confirm all paths are
>working on some sort of periodic basis. Maybe there could be a check
>as part of the annual conditional inspection. Otherwise, as you
>noted, one of the redundant paths could be inoperative, and you would
>have no way to know until you needed it.
>
>Kevin Horton
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rotax vaccum pad alternator failures? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Curious
Is it a common occurance to have the alternator shaft break on a ND
alternator that was modified to fit and work on accessory pad (sold by
Flight Crafters) on and at Rotax 900 series speeds?
How many hours of trouble free operations do users have/get on this
alternator?
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Message 6
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| Subject: | Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
I am looking for a source for an air conditioner compressor that is powered
by a DC motor. Similar to a refrigerator except DC not AC.
Anyone have an inexpensive source??
You can contact me offline if desired at bbradburry at allvantage.com.
Thanks,
Bill Bradburry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
bbradburry@allvantage.com wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>
>I am looking for a source for an air conditioner compressor that is powered
>by a DC motor. Similar to a refrigerator except DC not AC.
>
>Anyone have an inexpensive source??
>
>You can contact me offline if desired at bbradburry at allvantage.com.
>
>Thanks,
>Bill Bradburry
>
Maybe a motor home dealer? Using an sine wave inverter & an ac
compressor might end up being cheaper & easier.
Charlie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner |
Compressor
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Compressor
At 04:47 PM 12/18/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>
>I am looking for a source for an air conditioner compressor that is powered
>by a DC motor. Similar to a refrigerator except DC not AC.
>
>Anyone have an inexpensive source??
>
>You can contact me offline if desired at bbradburry at allvantage.com.
Electric compressor drive for vapor phase A/C is very common
in aircraft but exceedingly power hungry. Northcoast is the
only company I'm aware of right now that caters to the
OBAM aircraft community. See:
http://www.airplanedeice.com/aeroAir/
Electrically driven compressors are commonplace in
aircraft. Usually straight automotive compressors
driven by BIG motors. You might be able to build
your own compressor by mating an off-the-shelf
compressor with the right motor.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Hi Mickey ...
Have you considered using a circuit breaker switch to tie the two battery
busses together. A buss tie would allow going around a failed switch in
the battery parallel circuit. Circuit breaker switches are available in
higher amperage than are NORMALLY seen in RV type circuits. They are also
available for around $15 ... $20 in low Amps to 70Amps.
My 2 cents ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: two connections to ECU (engine computer)
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
> <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> Thanks for the info. I'll check the computer with an ohm meter
> tomorrow. My batteries will be in parallel when each
> of the battery contactors is on. This will be the normal
> case. In a very extreme case, I may be running only on the
> battery bus.
>
> You are totally correct about the other points of failure.
> I'm doing everything I can to add redundancy. In places
> where there is only one path, I want to make sure that
> path is as robust as possible.
>
> My diagram is based on Z11 + Z30 with a Perihelion IR
> alternator OVP thrown in for a bit of spice.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>
> Best regards,
> Mickey
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>I am looking for a source for an air conditioner compressor that is powered
>by a DC motor. Similar to a refrigerator except DC not AC.
Google "DC air conditioner -washington".
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"When the Oakies left Oklahoma and moved to California, it raised the I.Q.
of both states."
--Will Rogers
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Converting IR to ER |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R. Supinski" <mark.supinski@gmail.com>
Excellent -- thank you, Tim.
It took me about 20 minutes to perform the conversion after getting these
instructions. My alternator was not exactly the same, but a little up close
& personal time using my multi-tester was all I needed to figure it out. I
also performed the post-conversion tests, and got results that were
dead-bang on.
Thanks very much -- perfect!
Mark Supinski
On 12/16/05, Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu> wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
>
> Photos and text from my alternator conversion are at:
> <http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/alternator.htm>
>
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 790 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
I've worried over this one for several years. The easiest thing to do
is get an a/c compressor off a Geo or equivalent, and let your engine
drive it, even if you have to build the mounts. The other methods are
considerably heavier, and/or costlier.
David M.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III Compressor wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Compressor
>
>At 04:47 PM 12/18/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>>
>>I am looking for a source for an air conditioner compressor that is powered
>>by a DC motor. Similar to a refrigerator except DC not AC.
>>
>>Anyone have an inexpensive source??
>>
>>You can contact me offline if desired at bbradburry at allvantage.com.
>>
>>
>
>
> Electric compressor drive for vapor phase A/C is very common
> in aircraft but exceedingly power hungry. Northcoast is the
> only company I'm aware of right now that caters to the
> OBAM aircraft community. See:
>
>http://www.airplanedeice.com/aeroAir/
>
> Electrically driven compressors are commonplace in
> aircraft. Usually straight automotive compressors
> driven by BIG motors. You might be able to build
> your own compressor by mating an off-the-shelf
> compressor with the right motor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the idea. I'll have a look at that.
Mickey
> Have you considered using a circuit breaker switch to tie the two battery
> busses together. A buss tie would allow going around a failed switch in
> the battery parallel circuit. Circuit breaker switches are available in
> higher amperage than are NORMALLY seen in RV type circuits. They are also
> available for around $15 ... $20 in low Amps to 70Amps.
> My 2 cents ...
> Jerry Grimmonpre'
> RV8A
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: two connections to ECU (engine computer)
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>>
>>Hi Ken,
>>
>>Thanks for the info. I'll check the computer with an ohm meter
>>tomorrow. My batteries will be in parallel when each
>>of the battery contactors is on. This will be the normal
>>case. In a very extreme case, I may be running only on the
>>battery bus.
>>
>>You are totally correct about the other points of failure.
>>I'm doing everything I can to add redundancy. In places
>>where there is only one path, I want to make sure that
>>path is as robust as possible.
>>
>>My diagram is based on Z11 + Z30 with a Perihelion IR
>>alternator OVP thrown in for a bit of spice.
>>
>>http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Mickey
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
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