---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/19/05: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:23 AM - Re: Alternative architectures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 07:53 AM - Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 3. 08:25 AM - Re: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 4. 08:45 AM - Re: Alternative architectures (Guy Buchanan) 5. 09:27 AM - Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (rd2@evenlink.com) 6. 10:44 AM - Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (Dave Morris \) 7. 10:55 AM - Terminals for M22520/5-100 die (Jon Goguen) 8. 11:08 AM - Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (Gerry Holland) 9. 11:13 AM - Re: Alternative architectures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 11:21 AM - Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (Dave Morris \) 11. 11:35 AM - Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 12. 12:51 PM - Cessna DG; was: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (rd2@evenlink.com) 13. 01:07 PM - Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (Bob White) 14. 01:07 PM - Mic press to talk wiring (Jim Stone) 15. 01:43 PM - Re: Battery charger data (Paul Wilson) 16. 01:43 PM - Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 17. 05:59 PM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Jerry Grimmonpre) 18. 05:59 PM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Jerry Grimmonpre) 19. 06:27 PM - Re: two connections to ECU (engine computer) (Jerry Grimmonpre) 20. 07:54 PM - New Loadmeters in stock (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 07:54 PM - Rotax 914/912 Alternator (Jim Butcher) 22. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Battery charger data (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 23. 08:00 PM - Re: Mic press to talk wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 24. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: Battery charger data (David Carter) 25. 10:37 PM - Re: Re: Battery charger data (Paul Sidey) 26. 10:44 PM - Antennas- ground plane. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 27. 10:59 PM - Re: Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch (Frank) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:04 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternative architectures --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:47 PM 12/17/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com > > >snip... > >>There is little doubt that what you've described above > will be functional. The questions you need to craft > and answer should focus on: "How do I find any existing > recommendation (like a Z-figure) insufficient? Are there > changes that would improve simplicity, cost of ownership, user > friendliness, consistency with traditional design goals, > etc." If you find some alternative design goals attractive, > those are your choices to make.<< snip... > > >Bob: thanks for the considerable time you took to reply to my inquiry. It >was actually more helpful than you might imagine, especially the Socratic >aspects ;-) > >My specific interest in the suggested departure form Z-13/8 architecture >is rooted in "the relentless pursuit of weight reduction," which is one of >the few remaining creative avenues open to airplane builders once their >project is finished, flying, and the peformance, while stellar, has become >a bit routine. I trust you understand that. It's exactly what would >drive me to replace my welding cable battery leads with Eric's fatwire - >an expensive diversion, but far less so than ordering a new airplane kit. > >Here, we have the opportunity to shed two rather heavy contactors, one of >which is enough of a current hog to justify the existence of an entirely >separate "endurance bus" with its own feed provisions. I'm simply asking >a far more experienced pair of eyes to look over my shoulders in case I'm >overlooking any obvious perils or "gotcha's" before heading off in >George's suggested direction. I've soldered enough homebrew ham gear in >my time to know that gremlins conceal themselves cleverly from the >unexpecting... > >You have not pointed out any pitfalls in the proposed design, which does >seem to offer some simplification and weight savings over what I was about >to embark on, so you are either waiting for "Grasshopper" to see the error >of his Kung Fu, or else the path ahead indeed looks clear from your lofty >perch. I will study this move awhile longer before I say "final answer," >(am I mixing enough metaphors here?) but I will admit it looks acceptable >so far. Your focus is on weight reduction. Certainly a laudable goal. When Rutan was designing Voyager, he beat folks up for grams in empty weight. With the original engines, it took 5# of fuel to carry 1# of airplane around the world. Every pound of empty weight reduction was 6# of gross weight reduction at takeoff. Lightweight starters, alternators, and smaller batteries made practical by lower e-bus loads and/or lightweight backup alternators have enabled us to carve MANY pounds out of electrical system hardware compared to the typical 1985 era spam cans. The Bolder TMF battery may offer another quantum jump in the near future . . . we shall see. You've correctly identified opportunities for further weight reductions. Each opportunity needs to be evaluated for its return on investment . . . in this case your "investments" include acceptance of alternative design goals for making the system as "cold" as possible when all switches are OFF, potential for reduced margins in crash-worthiness, and $time$ invested to research, purchase and fabricate the new configuration. I've not found it particularly useful to struggle for a few pounds. I figure if weight reductions on that order are really useful, I can forego the calories in sugared drinks, ditch the fries from a meal-deal and probably gain whatever advantage those weight reductions might offer and get healthier in the process without hammering on hardware. Now, if Burt were setting a mission for your airplane, he might be taking a file to the spars, substituting .020 skins for .030 etc. In fact, unbeknownst to me he took the electronics (mounted on the lid) of the LR-3's off the lower housing and installed just the tops in Voyager on spacers for a savings of a few ounces. He didn't fly this one past us and we had no way of anticipating the heat rejection in the regulator under anticipated flight loads. I was sleepless enough while that flight was in progress . . . I would have been REALLY worried had I known what he did to the regulators. Let us suppose you can carve another 2-3 pounds out of the empty weight. How will this manifest itself in the operation of your airplane? Will you actually pat yourself on the back when you find you can throw an extra day worth of clean clothes in the bag when packing for your trip? The 15-20 pound delta for "old" versus "new" electrical system translates to perhaps 3 gallons more fuel (assuming you have tankage to hold it) and perhaps 75 miles more range at best efficiency power. This is a real and demonstrable difference in performance. If I were buying your airplane from you 10 years hence, would I be favorably disposed to purchase your airplane as opposed to some other because of a 3 pound delta in empty weights? I'm not so clear on how a couple more pounds is going to benefit you in a demonstrable way >BTW, you've convinced me that the TC regulator is not going to be necessary. If experience proves otherwise in the future, it's an easy addition. > If I end up moving my Odyssey to FWF in the RV, I would be glad to > be your test dummy for the instrumented flights you proposed earlier. I'm finishing the layouts on a 4-channel, 10-bit data acquisition module that we hope to bring to our product line for about $60 including software to run it from a PC. It's #2 on our list of new product development efforts. #1 is being programmed now. When you're ready to fly, I'll provide you with a suite of hardware and help craft a test plan to go get some real numbers off your airplane. Let's do it whether or not your battery is up front. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:33 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Everyone, Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently running scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing that makes him a bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what you would expect to pay, using home pictures of the items. He did several fishy things that had my spidey sense tingling but what really gave it away was forged emails from eBay that I could trace back to a Yahoo web account. I have reported him to eBay so I expect them to yank his id but I'm sure he has others ready to go. He also has several positive remarks so this may be a hijacked account. So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was going to buy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagged-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Actually, there is another company that specializes in this realm and are actively marketing to the kit built types. I know of at least one person putting the system into a RV-10. As said though, the off engine systems are very power hungry. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Direct Current Air Conditioner Compressor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> Compressor At 04:47 PM 12/18/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > >I am looking for a source for an air conditioner compressor that is >powered by a DC motor. Similar to a refrigerator except DC not AC. > >Anyone have an inexpensive source?? > >You can contact me offline if desired at bbradburry at allvantage.com. Electric compressor drive for vapor phase A/C is very common in aircraft but exceedingly power hungry. Northcoast is the only company I'm aware of right now that caters to the OBAM aircraft community. See: http://www.airplanedeice.com/aeroAir/ Electrically driven compressors are commonplace in aircraft. Usually straight automotive compressors driven by BIG motors. You might be able to build your own compressor by mating an off-the-shelf compressor with the right motor. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:43 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternative architectures --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 06:19 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote: >I'm not so clear on how > a couple more pounds is going to benefit you in > a demonstrable way It's not. Saving weight is a mind-set. You don't evaluate each weight savings on its merits; you do it as a matter of course. The question is not, "Is it really worth saving a few pounds?" Rather it's, "What is the compelling reason for this extra weight?" Same question, but with different priorities. When I worked in the America's Cup on 55,000# lead mines designers often thought I was crazy, shaving pounds here and there. They were more than happy, though, when I offered them 600# more lead for their keel bulb. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:17 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Thanks, Michael. Not that I was in the market for one, but it's a good idea to share such scams on the list; a few times I almost got screwed and have to thank the guys from the list for the money still being in my pocket. Ready to buy you a beer (or something stronger if you prefer) - and everybody else :) Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from RV Builder (Michael Sausen); Date: 09:52 AM 12/19/2005 -0600) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Everyone, Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently running scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing that makes him a bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what you would expect to pay, using home pictures of the items. He did several fishy things that had my spidey sense tingling but what really gave it away was forged emails from eBay that I could trace back to a Yahoo web account. I have reported him to eBay so I expect them to yank his id but I'm sure he has others ready to go. He also has several positive remarks so this may be a hijacked account. So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was going to buy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagged-no-r eserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage do not archive -- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:46 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" What exactly is the scam? It looks perfectly legit to me, with 180 positive feedbacks. Dave Morris At 09:52 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > >Everyone, > > Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently running > scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing that makes him > a bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what you would expect > to pay, using home pictures of the items. He did several fishy things > that had my spidey sense tingling but what really gave it away was forged > emails from eBay that I could trace back to a Yahoo web account. I have > reported him to eBay so I expect them to yank his id but I'm sure he has > others ready to go. He also has several positive remarks so this may be > a hijacked account. > > So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was going > to > buy: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagged-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >Michael Sausen >-10 #352 Fuselage >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:06 AM PST US From: Jon Goguen Subject: AeroElectric-List: Terminals for M22520/5-100 die --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen I recently bought a Daniels HX-4 crimping tool with an M22520/5-100 (Daniels Y501) die for pre-insulated terminals in AWG 10-26 range. Anyone know which brands of terminals work well with this die? Thanks! Jon Jon Goguen jon.goguen@umassmed.edu Central Massachusetts Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved) Complete except for electrics and avionics "Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind" --Woody Allen On Dec 19, 2005, at 12:24 PM, rd2@evenlink.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > > Thanks, Michael. > Not that I was in the market for one, but it's a good idea to share > such > scams on the list; a few times I almost got screwed and have to thank > the > guys from the list for the money still being in my pocket. Ready to > buy you > a beer (or something stronger if you prefer) - and everybody else :) > Rumen > > do not archive > > _____________________Original message __________________________ > (received from RV Builder (Michael Sausen); Date: > 09:52 > AM 12/19/2005 -0600) > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > > Everyone, > > Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently > running > scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing that makes > him a > bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what you would expect > to > pay, using home pictures of the items. He did several fishy things > that > had my spidey sense tingling but what really gave it away was forged > emails > from eBay that I could trace back to a Yahoo web account. I have > reported > him to eBay so I expect them to yank his id but I'm sure he has others > ready to go. He also has several positive remarks so this may be a > hijacked account. > > So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was > going to > buy: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow- > tagged-no-r > eserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Fuselage > do not archive > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for From: Gerry Holland --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > What exactly is the scam? It looks perfectly legit to me, with 180 > positive feedbacks. I'm with Dave on this. The Guy has 4 negative feedbacks in 180 transactions as Seller and Buyer. Those 4 negatives were over a year ago. Michael. Not sure why your suspicions are raised. Regards Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternative architectures --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:30 AM 12/19/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > >At 06:19 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote: > >I'm not so clear on how > > a couple more pounds is going to benefit you in > > a demonstrable way > >It's not. Saving weight is a mind-set. You don't evaluate each weight >savings on its merits; you do it as a matter of course. The question is >not, "Is it really worth saving a few pounds?" Rather it's, "What is the >compelling reason for this extra weight?" Same question, but with different >priorities. When I worked in the America's Cup on 55,000# lead mines >designers often thought I was crazy, shaving pounds here and there. They >were more than happy, though, when I offered them 600# more lead for their >keel bulb. Then it's not a design goal but simply a pleasing activity like a hobby, or listening to music. In this instance, proponents of weight savings at any cost should make it clear that there is zero, negative or an indeterminate return on investment. Further, enthusiasm for the act should not be mistaken as a discovery of a really good deal. As a professional, I've been bound by the simple-ideas of economics to make sure the techniques I suggest are based on good numbers. It's up to the folks in marketing to close deals on our products by drawing attention to paint schemes, cabin layouts, racy lines or the prestige of flying a Beech. Now, there's an obvious and quite notable exception to these two avenues of thought: Education. The task I suggested to go get real numbers during flight tests of an airplane is an investment with indeterminate value; unless we're looking for root cause of a specific problem. Education is always expensive and speculative. But the best feature of education is that the ideas and data can be shared and re-used many times over without repeating the original investment. So exploring for the pleasure of finding things out can be something like exploring for oil: There are more 'dry' than 'wet' holes but when the wet one pays out, it more than offsets costs of the dry ones and then some. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:48 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" In addition, his full name and phone number are Craig Puderbach, Powder Creek Construction Inc, Newport, Or 97365 (541) 272-1464 if you doubt his authenticity. Dave Morris At 01:07 PM 12/19/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > > > > What exactly is the scam? It looks perfectly legit to me, with 180 > > positive feedbacks. > >I'm with Dave on this. The Guy has 4 negative feedbacks in 180 transactions >as Seller and Buyer. Those 4 negatives were over a year ago. > >Michael. Not sure why your suspicions are raised. > >Regards > >Gerry > >Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Dave, That's the thing that makes it tough to spot. Here is what I posted to a similar question in the -10 List: Specifically here is what tipped me: Things that made me leery - He had two transponders in his stack and was selling one to make room for a MFD. - Supposedly the original buyer backed out, but the seller had comments from him saying it was a good transaction - He was really interested in using eBay to broker the transaction. - He would rather sell it to me than re-list and probably get more for it. - He asked for name and address to start the eBay transaction Things that clinched it - Received an email from eBay directly for the sale but it didn't show the transaction in my eBay account - The seller was suddenly in the UK - The seller requested Western Union which is a common payment method for scams as it makes them untraceable. - Received a second, unprompted, email from eBay security saying that they knew the seller was in the UK but the shipper was his wife in the US. (eBay doesn't do this) - I looked at the header information in the emails, which show the exact routing of the message, and in both cases they came from a Yahoo webmail account and NOT eBay. - The seller used a Yahoo account also for his communications. - The reply address to the emails showed eBay but was actually routed to an address outside of eBay Based on feedback and other stuff, I would have to guess that this is an account that was hijacked. It's a common scam to get access to another persons account, especially with good feedback, and then use it to get money from people. I didn't complete the transaction once I realized it was a scam. My guess is I would have sent the money via western union and would have never received anything. An investigation would show that the actual owner of the account had no knowledge of the transaction and Western Union would not be held responsible. I would be out $1100 with no way to recoup. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Morris "BigD" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" --> What exactly is the scam? It looks perfectly legit to me, with 180 positive feedbacks. Dave Morris At 09:52 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > >Everyone, > > Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently > running scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing > that makes him a bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what > you would expect to pay, using home pictures of the items. He did > several fishy things that had my spidey sense tingling but what really > gave it away was forged emails from eBay that I could trace back to a > Yahoo web account. I have reported him to eBay so I expect them to > yank his id but I'm sure he has others ready to go. He also has > several positive remarks so this may be a hijacked account. > > So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was > going to > buy: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagge > d-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >Michael Sausen >-10 #352 Fuselage >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:38 PM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cessna DG; was: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Happened to me once: almost bought something from a hijacked account. Discovered it after I emailed the seller via ebay, thanks to feedback from this list. I've got a Cessna 172 DG that was replaced by an S-Tec AP DG. It works, looks ok, no face scratches, but may precess (no longer sure, it's was pulled out of the aircraft last year). Both I and my wife are in Pennsylvania and the DG is in a box in my basement :) Sorry for the plug, I am much more comfortable with the list than with ebay. If anyone is interested, please contact me off the list: rd2@evenlink.com Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from RV Builder (Michael Sausen); Date: 01:35 PM 12/19/2005 -0600) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Dave, That's the thing that makes it tough to spot. Here is what I posted to a similar question in the -10 List: Specifically here is what tipped me: Things that made me leery - He had two transponders in his stack and was selling one to make room for a MFD. - Supposedly the original buyer backed out, but the seller had comments from him saying it was a good transaction - He was really interested in using eBay to broker the transaction. - He would rather sell it to me than re-list and probably get more for it. - He asked for name and address to start the eBay transaction Things that clinched it - Received an email from eBay directly for the sale but it didn't show the transaction in my eBay account - The seller was suddenly in the UK - The seller requested Western Union which is a common payment method for scams as it makes them untraceable. - Received a second, unprompted, email from eBay security saying that they knew the seller was in the UK but the shipper was his wife in the US. (eBay doesn't do this) - I looked at the header information in the emails, which show the exact routing of the message, and in both cases they came from a Yahoo webmail account and NOT eBay. - The seller used a Yahoo account also for his communications. - The reply address to the emails showed eBay but was actually routed to an address outside of eBay Based on feedback and other stuff, I would have to guess that this is an account that was hijacked. It's a common scam to get access to another persons account, especially with good feedback, and then use it to get money from people. I didn't complete the transaction once I realized it was a scam. My guess is I would have sent the money via western union and would have never received anything. An investigation would show that the actual owner of the account had no knowledge of the transaction and Western Union would not be held responsible. I would be out $1100 with no way to recoup. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Morris "BigD" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" --> What exactly is the scam? It looks perfectly legit to me, with 180 positive feedbacks. Dave Morris At 09:52 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > >Everyone, > > Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently > running scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing > that makes him a bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what > you would expect to pay, using home pictures of the items. He did > several fishy things that had my spidey sense tingling but what really > gave it away was forged emails from eBay that I could trace back to a > Yahoo web account. I have reported him to eBay so I expect them to > yank his id but I'm sure he has others ready to go. He also has > several positive remarks so this may be a hijacked account. > > So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was > going to > buy: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagge > d-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >Michael Sausen >-10 #352 Fuselage >do not archive > > -- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:10 PM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White Hi Michael, Was this a second chance offer? If it was a second chance offer, then I suspect the perpetrator was spoofing the second chance offer rather than hijacking the account. Based on positive feedback from the seller and the original buyer, I would guess the seller is legit and you were getting emails from someone else. That's good info though. When I receive an email from Paypal saying I've received a payment, I always open my Paypal account just to make sure the payment is actually there. It's too easy to make an email look like something it isn't. (Never had a bad one yet though.) Bob W. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:35:01 -0600 "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > Dave, > > That's the thing that makes it tough to spot. Here is what I posted to a similar question in the -10 List: > > Specifically here is what tipped me: > > Things that made me leery > - He had two transponders in his stack and was selling one to make room for a MFD. > - Supposedly the original buyer backed out, but the seller had comments from him saying it was a good transaction > - He was really interested in using eBay to broker the transaction. > - He would rather sell it to me than re-list and probably get more for it. > - He asked for name and address to start the eBay transaction > > Things that clinched it > - Received an email from eBay directly for the sale but it didn't show the transaction in my eBay account > - The seller was suddenly in the UK > - The seller requested Western Union which is a common payment method for scams as it makes them untraceable. > - Received a second, unprompted, email from eBay security saying that they knew the seller was in the UK but the shipper was his wife in the US. (eBay doesn't do this) > - I looked at the header information in the emails, which show the exact routing of the message, and in both cases they came from a Yahoo webmail account and NOT eBay. > - The seller used a Yahoo account also for his communications. > - The reply address to the emails showed eBay but was actually routed to an address outside of eBay > > Based on feedback and other stuff, I would have to guess that this is an account that was hijacked. It's a common scam to get access to another persons account, especially with good feedback, and then use it to get money from people. I didn't complete the transaction once I realized it was a scam. My guess is I would have sent the money via western union and would have never received anything. An investigation would show that the actual owner of the account had no knowledge of the transaction and Western Union would not be held responsible. I would be out $1100 with no way to recoup. > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Fuselage > do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Morris "BigD" > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" > --> > > What exactly is the scam? It looks perfectly legit to me, with 180 positive feedbacks. > > Dave Morris > > At 09:52 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > > > > >Everyone, > > > > Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently > > running scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing > > that makes him a bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what > > you would expect to pay, using home pictures of the items. He did > > several fishy things that had my spidey sense tingling but what really > > gave it away was forged emails from eBay that I could trace back to a > > Yahoo web account. I have reported him to eBay so I expect them to > > yank his id but I'm sure he has others ready to go. He also has > > several positive remarks so this may be a hijacked account. > > > > So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was > > going to > > buy: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagge > > d-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > > >Michael Sausen > >-10 #352 Fuselage > >do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe next week) Custom Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:21 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mic press to talk wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" Van's airplane: My Garmin audio panel diagram for the mic PTT has a wire going from the Mic key lead on the mic jack to the PTT switch in my stick grip and then all the way back to the mic jack and connects to the Mic (lo). My question is, since my stick has other switches that all use a common ground, can I use that common ground or do I need to run a dedicated ground wire back to the Mic jack? Thanks in advance, Jim ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:38 PM PST US From: Paul Wilson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charger data --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson After 2 months a WM1562A maintainer on a flooded sealed auto battery the voltage is 13.34/13.39v with two different meters. More interesting: 2 batteries in parallel on a single Schumacher SE-1-12S maintainer for the last 6 months. The batteries are a large flooded truck battery (1000 cca) (not sealed), and a yellow deep cycle Optima (750 cca). Size 65 and 35 The voltage on the flooded one is 13.01/12.91v The voltage on the Optima is 12.98/12.94v The xxx/yyy are the readings for the two meters. For those no familiar, the Optima is a sealed spiral cell like the Bolder but with the original thicker Gates design internals. The two maintainers are similar and are supposed to keep the battery at 13+ volts by charging and resting periodically. Both units operate as advertised. The 1562 seems to agree with Bob's plot posted previously. Paul ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:38 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Funny thing you mention this, based on something someone else said I dug back through to the original second chance email and it had the same markings. Looks like he was trolling for something that was high dollar and had current bid history. I haven't run across this version of the eBay scams before. Some of these guys must be getting really lazy to not even bother hijacking the account. Very interesting. Reinforces the fact that you always need to check eBay or paypal account directly for stuff and don't ever use the links in the email unless you know how to dissect them. In either case the point is to warn people that these scams do exist. I turned the original emails over to eBay when I first discovered it, just initially mistook plain lazy trolling and spoofing for hijacking. It is interesting that the actual guy had two transponders in his plane originally. Bit of an overkill. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuse Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White Hi Michael, Was this a second chance offer? If it was a second chance offer, then I suspect the perpetrator was spoofing the second chance offer rather than hijacking the account. Based on positive feedback from the seller and the original buyer, I would guess the seller is legit and you were getting emails from someone else. That's good info though. When I receive an email from Paypal saying I've received a payment, I always open my Paypal account just to make sure the payment is actually there. It's too easy to make an email look like something it isn't. (Never had a bad one yet though.) Bob W. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:25 PM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: two connections to ECU (engine computer) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Hi Mickey ... I'm designing two batteries into an RV8A and the attachment is one of the plans I'm looking at. It's rather flexible in that either batt can run either bus. The primary batt is the forward one and is primary for starting. The rear batt is for engine inst on startup. In flight or on ground either or both can power the 1 &/or 2 bus. All the switches are circuit breaker switches. The closed switch, closest to the rear batt, protects the line going to the next switch. With this arrangement there's about 5-6 feet of AWG4 and that is going to the starter. All the rest of the wire is approx #12 and that's going to the 1 & 2 busses. Regards ... Jerry Grimmonpre' > You are totally correct about the other points of failure. > I'm doing everything I can to add redundancy. In places > where there is only one path, I want to make sure that > path is as robust as possible. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:25 PM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: two connections to ECU (engine computer) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Hi Mickey ... I'm designing two batteries into an RV8A and the attachment is one of the plans I'm looking at. It's rather flexible in that either batt can run either bus. The primary batt is the forward one and is primary for starting. The rear batt is for engine inst on startup. In flight or on ground either or both can power the 1 &/or 2 bus. All the switches are circuit breaker switches. The closed switch, closest to the rear batt, protects the line going to the next switch. With this arrangement there's about 5-6 feet of AWG4 and that is going to the starter. All the rest of the wire is approx #12 and that's going to the 1 & 2 busses. Regards ... Jerry Grimmonpre' > You are totally correct about the other points of failure. > I'm doing everything I can to add redundancy. In places > where there is only one path, I want to make sure that > path is as robust as possible. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:24 PM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: two connections to ECU (engine computer) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Ooops! Sorry about accidentally sending two of the same ... looks like the attachment went South too (as it should have) ... AND I'm designing an electrical system ... !? : ) Good luck! Jerry Grimmonpre' DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: two connections to ECU (engine computer) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:40 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Loadmeters in stock --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" The UPS truck just delivered our stocking order of shunts to go with a new, much better quality loadmeter than we were able to offer a few years ago. Better yet, these are less expensive than the old offering. See: http://aeroelectric.com/ Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:40 PM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 914/912 Alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" I noticed some comments concerning the addition of a second alternator to the Rotax 912 on this list in the last few days. I copied a second alternator solution from Jim Nelson a fellow Europa pilot and it works very well. Basically I mounted a B&C L60 alternator on a bracket that mounts to the Rotax engine frame (the white tubular ring at the rear of the engine). The alternator is driven off the rear of the crankshaft and thus operates at about 5000 rpm. This gives 46 amps with a L60 and 33 amps with a L40. I have supplied the parts for this mod for others. If you are interested or want more information, contact me off list. Jim Butcher Europa XS ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:45 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charger data --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:42 PM 12/19/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson > >After 2 months a WM1562A maintainer on a flooded sealed auto battery the >voltage is 13.34/13.39v with two different meters. > > More interesting: >2 batteries in parallel on a single Schumacher SE-1-12S maintainer for the >last 6 months. >The batteries are a large flooded truck battery (1000 cca) (not sealed), >and a yellow deep cycle Optima (750 cca). Size 65 and 35 > >The voltage on the flooded one is 13.01/12.91v >The voltage on the Optima is 12.98/12.94v > >The xxx/yyy are the readings for the two meters. >For those no familiar, the Optima is a sealed spiral cell like the Bolder >but with the original thicker Gates design internals. The Optima is a direct descendant of the first RG batteries to hit the market in the US. B&C was selling these batteries about 1985 for about $175 as I recall. Great cranking batteries but gave them up due to persistent failures of the (-) terminal attachment inside the cell. "You've come a long way baby!" > The two maintainers are similar and are supposed to keep the battery at >13+ volts by charging and resting periodically. Both units operate as >advertised. The 1562 seems to agree with Bob's plot posted previously. > >Paul Paul, Thank you for the follow-up and sharing the outcome of your repeatable experiment. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mic press to talk wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:06 PM 12/19/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" > >Van's airplane: >My Garmin audio panel diagram for the mic PTT has a wire going from the >Mic key lead on the mic jack to the PTT switch in my stick grip and then >all the way back to the mic jack and connects to the Mic (lo). My >question is, since my stick has other switches that all use a common >ground, can I use that common ground or do I need to run a dedicated >ground wire back to the Mic jack? >Thanks in advance, PTT circuits can generally share grounds with other controls in the stick. The PTT circuit is not a potential victim for noise. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:22 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charger data --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" I use a Schumacher and it charges momentarily to 14 point something and then shuts off and the battery internally discharges down to 13.00 or 12.99 volts and the charger turns back on. Takes a fully charged battery about 1 or 2 seconds to reach the 14+ v shutoff and takes 15' or 30' (a long time) for the battery to discharge back down to 13.00 So, Paul's voltage readings for the Schumaker are exactly what I see. The WM1562A must not ever drop down to 13.00, must drop down to 13.34 or thereabouts before it turns on again. With 6 cells, the diff in total voltage (13 vs 13.34) is .34. Divide by 6 and you get about .06 v per cell difference in "charge" or "per cell voltage" with the two different chargers/maintainers. Not significant? Both doing well. David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charger data > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 01:42 PM 12/19/2005 -0800, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson >> >>After 2 months a WM1562A maintainer on a flooded sealed auto battery the >>voltage is 13.34/13.39v with two different meters. >> >> More interesting: 2 batteries in parallel on a single Schumacher >> SE-1-12S maintainer for the last 6 months. >>The batteries are a large flooded truck battery (1000 cca) (not sealed), >>and a yellow deep cycle Optima (750 cca). Size 65 and 35 >> >>The voltage on the flooded one is 13.01/12.91v >>The voltage on the Optima is 12.98/12.94v >> >>The xxx/yyy are the readings for the two meters. >>For those no familiar, the Optima is a sealed spiral cell like the Bolder >>but with the original thicker Gates design internals. > > The Optima is a direct descendant of the first RG batteries to hit the > market in the US. B&C was selling these batteries about 1985 for about > $175 as I recall. Great cranking batteries but gave them up due to > persistent failures of the (-) terminal attachment inside the cell. > "You've come a long way baby!" > >> The two maintainers are similar and are supposed to keep the battery >> at 13+ volts by charging and resting periodically. Both units operate as >> advertised. The 1562 seems to agree with Bob's plot posted previously. >> >>Paul > > Paul, Thank you for the follow-up and sharing the outcome of your > repeatable experiment. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:07 PM PST US From: "Paul Sidey" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charger data --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Sidey" I just wanted to follow up and ask you to take a look at our new web sites. www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey It is so simple to prospect with and I have had people enroll before Ive even had a chance to call them because they saw the awesome opportunity to be on the ground floor of this project with the Star Power of the Nike of Nutrition and the team that is being built. Best regards, Paul Sidey Tel: 303-537-3283 Fax: 303-537-3284 email: psidey@msn.com http://www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey http://www.secretsofthemillionairemind.com/a/dollarsandsense http://tomchenault.com If you don't want to be on this list anymore, just type REMOVE and send back. I do NOT want to spam you and I promise you won't hurt my feelings. (Except you, mom) Thanks!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Carter Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charger data --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" I use a Schumacher and it charges momentarily to 14 point something and then shuts off and the battery internally discharges down to 13.00 or 12.99 volts and the charger turns back on. Takes a fully charged battery about 1 or 2 seconds to reach the 14+ v shutoff and takes 15' or 30' (a long time) for the battery to discharge back down to 13.00 So, Paul's voltage readings for the Schumaker are exactly what I see. The WM1562A must not ever drop down to 13.00, must drop down to 13.34 or thereabouts before it turns on again. With 6 cells, the diff in total voltage (13 vs 13.34) is .34. Divide by 6 and you get about .06 v per cell difference in "charge" or "per cell voltage" with the two different chargers/maintainers. Not significant? Both doing well. David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charger data > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 01:42 PM 12/19/2005 -0800, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson >> >>After 2 months a WM1562A maintainer on a flooded sealed auto battery the >>voltage is 13.34/13.39v with two different meters. >> >> More interesting: 2 batteries in parallel on a single Schumacher >> SE-1-12S maintainer for the last 6 months. >>The batteries are a large flooded truck battery (1000 cca) (not sealed), >>and a yellow deep cycle Optima (750 cca). Size 65 and 35 >> >>The voltage on the flooded one is 13.01/12.91v >>The voltage on the Optima is 12.98/12.94v >> >>The xxx/yyy are the readings for the two meters. >>For those no familiar, the Optima is a sealed spiral cell like the Bolder >>but with the original thicker Gates design internals. > > The Optima is a direct descendant of the first RG batteries to hit the > market in the US. B&C was selling these batteries about 1985 for about > $175 as I recall. Great cranking batteries but gave them up due to > persistent failures of the (-) terminal attachment inside the cell. > "You've come a long way baby!" > >> The two maintainers are similar and are supposed to keep the battery >> at 13+ volts by charging and resting periodically. Both units operate as >> advertised. The 1562 seems to agree with Bob's plot posted previously. >> >>Paul > > Paul, Thank you for the follow-up and sharing the outcome of your > repeatable experiment. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:40 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennas- ground plane. --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Question Bob: A while back you had some words of wisdom for a person who'd asked about getting enough metal to metal contact for ground plane purposes with his comm antenna. You mentioned to him that riveting his doubler plates to the skin would provide plenty of contact when paint and other debris was squeezed out during the riveting process. I have a little different twist on this question. I made doubler plates to go inside the fuselage but don't really want to rivet them on. The number of fasteners that hold the antennas to the airplane will hold doublers to the skin and I don't see a need to rivet the doublers on. This however, could cause trouble. Since I've already primed the inside of the aluminum fuselage skin, would like to prime the doublers so they don't corrode when water gets between them and the fuselage skin and don't want to remove the primer from the skin......I fear I will have insufficient connection to get good ground plane action. The comm antennas come with a cork gasket that's supposed to go between the outside skin and the antenna so that limits ground plane connection on the outside skin (presently bare aluminum). Am I gonna have to bite the bullet and rivet the doublers to get some connection or ????(the doublers have nutplates riveted to them to accept the antenna fasteners). Any words of wisdom here? The antennas are the standard store bought COMANT bent whips. Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM All airframe/engine parts in FWF kit installed (wiring in process)!! ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:05 PM PST US From: Frank Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Frank Any time that you suspect you might be being scammed, go and ask at http://www.fraudwatchers.org or http:/scampatrol.org I think it's interesting that every time someone asks, the answer is always "yes". If you think it might be a scam, it almost certainly is. Frank