Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: Crash safety of battery contactor switching philosophy (N1deltawhiskey@AOL.COM)
2. 05:21 AM - Re: Crash safety of battery contactor switching (sportav8r@aol.com.philosophy)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: T'was the Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style (Chuck Jensen)
4. 07:17 AM - Re: SD8 alternator installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:25 AM - Re: SD8 alternator installation (Bryan Hooks)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Crash safety of battery contactor switching philosophy (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:39 AM - Starting Problem (Jim Thorne)
8. 08:07 AM - Re: Hobbs meter wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:26 AM - Re: Bench and ground power supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:33 AM - Re: Starting Problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 08:44 AM - Re: Starting Problem (Jim Thorne)
12. 10:25 AM - Re: SD8 alternator output (Werner Schneider)
13. 10:42 AM - Re: SD8 alternator output (Bryan Hooks)
14. 10:52 AM - Re: SD8 alternator output (Bryan Hooks)
15. 02:03 PM - Re: Starting Problem (Jim Thorne)
16. 02:12 PM - Re: SD8 alternator output (sportav8r@aol.com)
17. 02:37 PM - Re: Starting Problem (Eric M. Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Crash safety of battery contactor switching philosophy |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
In a message dated 21-Dec-05 7:25:17 Pacific Standard Time, nuckollsr@cox.net
writes:
You could drive the battery contactor from
the battery bus through a small fuse if you
wish.
Bob,
Just curious how this would work. The hot wire to the energizing side of the
contactor is, I believe, always hot, is it not (otherwise, how would
switching to ground cause a current to flow)?
The wire that is grounded by the panel switch is at 12 volts when the switch
is open, 0 (more or less) when the switch is closed. To me, that implies that
the 1 amp used to maintain the contactor closed is limited to that current by
the resistance in the energizing coil of the contactor.
If the ground wire were shorted out anywhere between the contactor and the
panel switch (which as I understand it was the foundation of the original
inquiry), how would fusing the hot side have any benefit (assuming the hot side
is
fed directly from the battery)? The only benefit I can see would be if the
energizing coil of the contactor was shorted out at the same time that the ground
wire was shorted to ground. Something the could happen, theoretically I
suppose, but not with any significant frequency.
Regards,
Doug Windhorn
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Crash safety of battery contactor switching |
philosophy
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com philosophy
I think he means place the switch in the hot side wiring, not the ground side.
Least, that's what I meant when I suggested it earlier that same day ;-) That
way, a short anywhere in the control wiring to the contactor won't energize
it. It stays permanently grounded, and has switched +12v controlling its operation.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crash safety of battery contactor switching philosophy
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
In a message dated 21-Dec-05 7:25:17 Pacific Standard Time, nuckollsr@cox.net
writes:
You could drive the battery contactor from
the battery bus through a small fuse if you
wish.
Bob,
Just curious how this would work. The hot wire to the energizing side of the
contactor is, I believe, always hot, is it not (otherwise, how would
switching to ground cause a current to flow)?
The wire that is grounded by the panel switch is at 12 volts when the switch
is open, 0 (more or less) when the switch is closed. To me, that implies that
the 1 amp used to maintain the contactor closed is limited to that current by
the resistance in the energizing coil of the contactor.
If the ground wire were shorted out anywhere between the contactor and the
panel switch (which as I understand it was the foundation of the original
inquiry), how would fusing the hot side have any benefit (assuming the hot side
is
fed directly from the battery)? The only benefit I can see would be if the
energizing coil of the contactor was shorted out at the same time that the
ground
wire was shorted to ground. Something the could happen, theoretically I
suppose, but not with any significant frequency.
Regards,
Doug Windhorn
Message 3
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| Subject: | T'was the Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes |
Style
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Jim,
You are a poet,
Though some may not know it.
Well done.
Chuck Jensen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:45 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: T'was the Night Before Christmas - Sports
> Planes Style
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien"
<jim@pellien.com>
>
> 'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the forum
> not an EMAIL was posted, not even a note.
> The stockings were hung by the laptop with care,
> in hopes that Tom P. soon would be there.
>
> The pilots were nestled all snug in their beds,
> while visions of SLSA's danced in their heads.
> The aircraft in their hangars, and I in my cap,
> had just settled our brains for a long winter's nap.
>
> When out on the tarmac there arose such a clatter,
> I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter.
> Away to the window I flew like a flash,
> tore open the shutter, and threw up the sash.
>
> The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
> gave the lustre of midday to the tie-downs below,
> when, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
> but a Light Sport Aircraft and eight big EAA 'rs.
>
> With a little old pilot, so lively and quick,
> I knew in a moment it must be Tom P.
> More rapid than eagles, his coursers they came,
> and he whistled and shouted and called them by name:
>
> "Now Rutan! Now Melville!
> Now, Fossett and Boyer!
> On, Lawrence! On, Heintz!
> On, Van G and Sawyer!
>
> To the end of the runway!
> To the tie-down area
> Now Shut Down ! Shut Down!
> Shut Down All Engines"
>
> As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
> when they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky
> so up to the top of the FBO they flew,
> with the sleigh full of flight toys, and Tom P. too.
>
> And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
> the prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
> As I drew in my head and was turning around,
> down the chimney Tom P. came with a bound.
>
> He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
> and his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot.
> A bundle of new FAA rules he had flung on his back,
> and he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.
>
> He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
> and filled all the stockings, with SP and LSA Rulings.
> And laying his finger aside of his nose,
> and giving a nod, up the chimney he rose.
>
> He sprang to his SLSA, completed his preflight,
> And away he flew like the down of a thistle.
> But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he flew out of sight,
> "Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night!"
>
>
> (An Adaptation of the Classic Poem, "T'was the Night Before
Christmas")
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All
>
> Jim Pellien
> Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
> The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
> www.MASPL.com
> 703-313-4818
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alternator installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:41 AM 12/23/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>no, it was not an illustration of the installation instead a pdf of the
>output, it was in a message of you from June 29th on this list and the
>picture was
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/SD-8_Output.pdf
>
>Unfortunately I was not able to locate on your website anymore.
>
>Thanks
>
>Werner
Aha! Good rattle (of my cage) . . . Folks should
be aware that as time and motivation come together, there will
be some re-organization of aeroelectric.com
The volume of data is becoming too large to retrieve useful
data by simply browsing. One of the first things I did was
to add sub-folders under the Pictures folder where photos
were sorted by content. You can directly access the Pictures
folder by clicking on
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures
Here you will see a simple directory listing with sub-folders
that you can follow down and back up just as if you were looking
at someone's HTML pages.
I'll be working on photo file names to make them for indicative
of what they illustrate.
If you go to the new sub-site-index page at . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html
. . . you'll find an index for nine categories of downloadable
data. Pictures are under the Photo and Figure Album listing.
Some of those links will take you to more HTML pages where
it's useful to generate much more supporting info while
others (Page per System Drawings, Radio Pin-out Guides, etc)
are simply links to the top of a directory where one selects
from a list of file names as opposed to accessing a published
page of text and illustrations.
This is a slow process but it makes little quantum jumps from
time to time. Over the next year, I plan to make the site
much easier to use in terms of accessing data relevant
to an interest or query-of-the-moment.
I appreciate you bringing this up. This explanation has
is overdue. The specific page you were looking for is now
under Alternators at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD-8_Output.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | SD8 alternator installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
You'll find it on the B&C website - it's the red SD-8 icon in the QUICK
FACTS section.
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/
Hope this is what you're looking for.
Bryan Hooks
RV-7A, Knoxville TN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD8 alternator installation
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
<glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Bob,
no, it was not an illustration of the installation instead a pdf of the
output, it was in a message of you from June 29th on this list and the
picture was
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/SD-8_Output.pdf
Unfortunately I was not able to locate on your website anymore.
Thanks
Werner
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 06:11 PM 12/22/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
<glastar@gmx.net>
>>
>>Hello Bob,
>>
>>you had once a diagram of the SD8 output on the web I'm not able to
>>locate it again.
>>
>>Many thanks for your help
>>
>>Werner
>>
>>
>
> The only ones that come to mind are those illustrated in
> Appendix Z drawings for the book. Latest drawings are
> downloadable at:
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11D.pdf
>
> See figures Z-13/8, Z-17 and Z-25 for drawings
> that illustrate various SD-8 installations.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Crash safety of battery contactor switching philosophy |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:39 AM 12/23/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 21-Dec-05 7:25:17 Pacific Standard Time, nuckollsr@cox.net
>writes:
> You could drive the battery contactor from
> the battery bus through a small fuse if you
> wish.
>Bob,
>
>Just curious how this would work. The hot wire to the energizing side of the
>contactor is, I believe, always hot, is it not (otherwise, how would
>switching to ground cause a current to flow)?
You could take a fused feed off the battery bus (small,
1A would probably be sufficient) and run it through a switch to
the (+) side of the contactor coil . . . then ground the (-) side
locally.
>The wire that is grounded by the panel switch is at 12 volts when the switch
>is open, 0 (more or less) when the switch is closed. To me, that implies
>that
>the 1 amp used to maintain the contactor closed is limited to that current by
>the resistance in the energizing coil of the contactor.
>If the ground wire were shorted out anywhere between the contactor and the
>panel switch (which as I understand it was the foundation of the original
>inquiry), how would fusing the hot side have any benefit (assuming the hot
>side is
>fed directly from the battery)? The only benefit I can see would be if the
>energizing coil of the contactor was shorted out at the same time that the
>ground
>wire was shorted to ground. Something the could happen, theoretically I
>suppose, but not with any significant frequency.
Yup, you understand the rationale for having selected the
contemporary configuration and have deduced why that lead
does not warrant a fuse to protect the wire.
Of course the original query was concerned about the control
lead being vulnerable to ground fault during a crash which would
defeat the purpose of opening the battery contactor via the
pilot's panel controls.
I explained that small wires are quite unlikely become compromised
to ground (and in fact are pulled open during crash-crumpling) whereas
fat wires tend to resist crash-crumple forces and are more likely
to suffer ground faulting while their terminal ends stay intact.
Admittedly, it's splitting hairs for the 10th time where the trade
off between techniques illustrates a 1:1000 probability of being
a real crash-safety issue.
Much of what flies today is founded in decades of serious
scientific consideration and logic to develop techniques that have
stood the test of time and the repeatable experiment. We're getting
new additions to the mix of "safety concerns" every year. That's
the FAA's job . . . be concerned and then do things that make one
less concerned. Once the "new thing" is identified, you stack
some mandate for incorporation into an already too big stack of
FARS, 8100 docs, and off-hand opinions. This comes to bear on an
industry that is bound and determined to raise quality of their
products like government attempts to make some societal discomfort
go away . . . make a rule or law against it. We have bookshelves
populated with policy and procedures manuals that are beginning
to rival the Tax Code.
So our attention to regulation, policy and procedure becomes
focused on not raising the ire of our leadership. In the mean
time real quality of both our product and science is becoming
overwhelmed by the desire to avoid punishment . . . not for
having failed to do a good job . . . but for not having
followed the "rules".
You folks are a breath of fresh air. We get to do science
and logical design to achieve practical design goals. I'd
like to believe that Walter Beech, William Piper and Duane
Wallace would all be subscribers to this kind of effort had
it been in existence 60 years ago. I KNOW their engineering
staff would.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Starting Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
We have a Bellanca 14-19 with similar starting problems described by another 14-19
owner a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I never saw a good solution to
his problems.
Here are our symptoms. You have to "bump" the starter to get the engine to turn.
After doing this several times both battery terminals are too hot to touch.
My past automotive experience says this is usually a contact problem at the
terminals but they are clean and tight. The local "experts" think the next effort
is to check the solenoid and starter. It is my belief that if the starter
is engaging the solenoid is OK. I suspect that we may have a bad armature on
the starter but I don't understand the hot battery terminals.
Any ideas from this august group?
Merry Christmas
Jim Thorne
CHD AZ
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hobbs meter wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:43 PM 10/23/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland
><gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
>
>Bob Hi!
>
>I'm using a device called Power Genie to supply start and stop Voltage to
>Hobbs Meter. About to start my Rotax Engine. OK?
>
>Find it at:
>
>http://www.powergenie.central5.com/
>
>Regards
Without having access to the inner-secrets of how
this thing works, I cannot offer a lucid evaluation.
I am wary of things that get in series with the high
current leads . . . there are some slick ways to
detect current flow to control other systems . . . such
as your Hobbs meter . . . there are also come clumsy
ways that would put the alternator output at risk.
Sorry to take so long to get back on this. Trying to
do some end of the month catch up. Let us know how
this product works for you.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bench and ground power supply |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:20 AM 11/7/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>What is the down side to using one of these for a battery charger?
>
>Indiana Larry
GENERALLY . . . no problem. I've had rare occasions where
some power supplies fitted with OV protection will trigger
the crowbar OV if the power fails and the power supply
is still connected to the battery. Toasted one of my prized
HP bench supplies doing this. I STILL use the power supply
to charge batteries but through an inline fuse so that
if the line power glitches, it doesn't kill my power supply.
I doubt that the supply cited below offers any such concerns.
Bob . . .
>----- Original Message -----
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bench and ground power supply
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> >
> > Just ran across this item on the 'net.
> >
> > http://www.web-tronics.com/25ampswitpow.html
> >
> >
> > This supply is adjustable to 9-15 volts meaning that
> > you can set it to emulate an alternator at 14.2 volts.
> > Better yet, it's metered.
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Starting Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:38 AM 12/23/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
>
>We have a Bellanca 14-19 with similar starting problems described by
>another 14-19 owner a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I never saw a
>good solution to his problems.
>
>Here are our symptoms. You have to "bump" the starter to get the engine
>to turn. After doing this several times both battery terminals are too hot
>to touch. My past automotive experience says this is usually a contact
>problem at the terminals but they are clean and tight. The local
>"experts" think the next effort is to check the solenoid and starter. It
>is my belief that if the starter is engaging the solenoid is OK. I
>suspect that we may have a bad armature on the starter but I don't
>understand the hot battery terminals.
>
>Any ideas from this august group?
I think I recall asking the original poster to get some voltage
measurements so that we might more accurately deduce where his
losses were coming from. In your case, there's a demonstrated
loading condition. A snap-on starter current meter (Figure 7-8
in the 'Connection) available from automotive parts suppliers
would let you see what current the starter is drawing.
The degraded performance combined with hot terminals is
a very strong support of your hypothesis. The starter's
armature windings or commutator are compromised. Get
a real measurement of starter current first. If this
looks normal (under 200A) then get volage measurements
while cranking:
(1) battery terminals (+) to (-)
(2) +side drops from battery (+) to starter (+)
(3) -side drops from battery (-) to starter case
(4) starter supply from starter(+) to starter case.
Bob . . .
>Merry Christmas
>
>Jim Thorne
>CHD AZ
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Starting Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
Bob, Thanks we will try that by noon our time.
Jim Thorne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starting Problem
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 08:38 AM 12/23/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
>>
>>We have a Bellanca 14-19 with similar starting problems described by
>>another 14-19 owner a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I never saw a
>>good solution to his problems.
>>
>>Here are our symptoms. You have to "bump" the starter to get the engine
>>to turn. After doing this several times both battery terminals are too hot
>>to touch. My past automotive experience says this is usually a contact
>>problem at the terminals but they are clean and tight. The local
>>"experts" think the next effort is to check the solenoid and starter. It
>>is my belief that if the starter is engaging the solenoid is OK. I
>>suspect that we may have a bad armature on the starter but I don't
>>understand the hot battery terminals.
>>
>>Any ideas from this august group?
>
> I think I recall asking the original poster to get some voltage
> measurements so that we might more accurately deduce where his
> losses were coming from. In your case, there's a demonstrated
> loading condition. A snap-on starter current meter (Figure 7-8
> in the 'Connection) available from automotive parts suppliers
> would let you see what current the starter is drawing.
>
> The degraded performance combined with hot terminals is
> a very strong support of your hypothesis. The starter's
> armature windings or commutator are compromised. Get
> a real measurement of starter current first. If this
> looks normal (under 200A) then get volage measurements
> while cranking:
>
> (1) battery terminals (+) to (-)
> (2) +side drops from battery (+) to starter (+)
> (3) -side drops from battery (-) to starter case
> (4) starter supply from starter(+) to starter case.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>>Merry Christmas
>>
>>Jim Thorne
>>CHD AZ
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alternator output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Bob,
many thanks for the explanation! Now I have just to find out what
gearing we have from the engine to the alternator =(;o)) to have a
engine output conversion, A pilot on my airfield wants to mount this
alternator as one and only on an engine with tho Lightspeed ignitions
and a 21A battery. The question is here, when does the alternator
recharge the bat. I was not yet able to make a load analysis.
br and Merry Xmas
Werner
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD-8_Output.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | SD8 alternator output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
The quick facts at B&C also show the engine to alternator speed ration.
I believe for a Lyc it was 1.2 but please check that.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD8 alternator output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
<glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Bob,
many thanks for the explanation! Now I have just to find out what
gearing we have from the engine to the alternator =(;o)) to have a
engine output conversion, A pilot on my airfield wants to mount this
alternator as one and only on an engine with tho Lightspeed ignitions
and a 21A battery. The question is here, when does the alternator
recharge the bat. I was not yet able to make a load analysis.
br and Merry Xmas
Werner
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD-8_Output.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | SD8 alternator output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
Oops - my apologies - I gave you bad information. From the B&C website,
here are the gearing ratios for engine pad rpm / engine rpm.
Lyc / vaccum pad / 1.3
Lyc / hydraulic pad / 1.3
Cont O200 / vaccum pad / 1.5
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/QuickFacts_SD8.pdf
-bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD8 alternator output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
<glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Bob,
many thanks for the explanation! Now I have just to find out what
gearing we have from the engine to the alternator =(;o)) to have a
engine output conversion, A pilot on my airfield wants to mount this
alternator as one and only on an engine with tho Lightspeed ignitions
and a 21A battery. The question is here, when does the alternator
recharge the bat. I was not yet able to make a load analysis.
br and Merry Xmas
Werner
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD-8_Output.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Starting Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
Bob, Thanks for the help. We found one of the "pads" inside the starter had
come loose. A new bolt torqued down and now it cranks like new.
do not archive
Jim Thorne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starting Problem
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 08:38 AM 12/23/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
>>
>>We have a Bellanca 14-19 with similar starting problems described by
>>another 14-19 owner a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I never saw a
>>good solution to his problems.
>>
>>Here are our symptoms. You have to "bump" the starter to get the engine
>>to turn. After doing this several times both battery terminals are too hot
>>to touch. My past automotive experience says this is usually a contact
>>problem at the terminals but they are clean and tight. The local
>>"experts" think the next effort is to check the solenoid and starter. It
>>is my belief that if the starter is engaging the solenoid is OK. I
>>suspect that we may have a bad armature on the starter but I don't
>>understand the hot battery terminals.
>>
>>Any ideas from this august group?
>
> I think I recall asking the original poster to get some voltage
> measurements so that we might more accurately deduce where his
> losses were coming from. In your case, there's a demonstrated
> loading condition. A snap-on starter current meter (Figure 7-8
> in the 'Connection) available from automotive parts suppliers
> would let you see what current the starter is drawing.
>
> The degraded performance combined with hot terminals is
> a very strong support of your hypothesis. The starter's
> armature windings or commutator are compromised. Get
> a real measurement of starter current first. If this
> looks normal (under 200A) then get volage measurements
> while cranking:
>
> (1) battery terminals (+) to (-)
> (2) +side drops from battery (+) to starter (+)
> (3) -side drops from battery (-) to starter case
> (4) starter supply from starter(+) to starter case.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>>Merry Christmas
>>
>>Jim Thorne
>>CHD AZ
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
> < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
> < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
> < work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
> < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
> < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
> < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
> < happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
> < then slip back into abject poverty. >
> < >
> < This is known as "bad luck". >
> < -Lazarus Long- >
> <------------------------------------------------------>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alternator output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Yup. At 2400 rpm cruise, it's more like an "SD-6" than an "SD-8" perhaps with
more amps available at sagging voltages. Something to keep in mind when planning
the ol' endurance bus amps budget.
That said, I'm about ready to order mine, and very glad they're available.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Hooks <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SD8 alternator output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
Oops - my apologies - I gave you bad information. From the B&C website,
here are the gearing ratios for engine pad rpm / engine rpm.
Lyc / vaccum pad / 1.3
Lyc / hydraulic pad / 1.3
Cont O200 / vaccum pad / 1.5
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/QuickFacts_SD8.pdf
-bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD8 alternator output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider
<glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Bob,
many thanks for the explanation! Now I have just to find out what
gearing we have from the engine to the alternator =(;o)) to have a
engine output conversion, A pilot on my airfield wants to mount this
alternator as one and only on an engine with tho Lightspeed ignitions
and a 21A battery. The question is here, when does the alternator
recharge the bat. I was not yet able to make a load analysis.
br and Merry Xmas
Werner
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD-8_Output.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Starting Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" rv7a@cox.net
....
>Here are our symptoms. You have to "bump" the starter to get the engine to
>turn.
>After doing this several times both battery terminals are too hot to touch.
>My past automotive experience says this is usually a contact problem at the
>terminals but they are clean and tight. The local "experts" think the next
>effort
>is to check the solenoid and starter. It is my belief that if the starter
>is engaging the solenoid is OK. I suspect that we may have a bad armature
>on
>the starter but I don't understand the hot battery terminals.
>Any ideas from this august group?.......
I have seen battery terminals where there was some conversion of the joint
metal into a non-conducting layer. The joint was dry and tight, but the
metal needed a reaming to renew the surface. It is good practice to grease
the fittings to prevent this from happening.
Just a guess.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"...Beans for supper tonight, six o'clock.
Navy beans cooked in Oklahoma ham...
Got to eat 'em with a spoon, raw onions
and cornbread; nothing else...."
--Will Rogers
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