Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Manual Battery switches (Speedy11@aol.com)
2. 04:03 AM - Re: More SD8 Installation Questions (Steve Glasgow)
3. 05:47 AM - Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it (Carlos Trigo)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 07:08 AM - Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it (Larry Mac Donald)
6. 07:50 AM - Re: Manual Battery switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: More SD8 Installation Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it (Eric M. Jones)
9. 08:26 AM - Re: More SD8 Installation Questions (Kevin Horton)
10. 09:23 AM - Re:More SD8 Installation Questions (Mike Holland)
11. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: switching off an IR alternator ()
12. 12:18 PM - 2 Battery RV8A (Jerry Grimmonpre)
13. 03:25 PM - [ Jeff Smith ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
14. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Re: switching off an IR alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 05:14 PM - Re: [ Jeff Smith ] : New Email List Photo Share (sportav8r@aol.com.Available!)
16. 05:59 PM - Re: 2 Battery RV8A (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 09:24 PM - Alternator torque (switching off an IR alternator) (Goguen, Jon)
18. 09:55 PM - Re: Terminals for M22520/5-100 die (Goguen, Jon)
19. 10:32 PM - Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it (Speedy11@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Manual Battery switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
Have any builders opted to use manual battery switches? If so, do they work
well? Any problem with the "keys?" Is there a way to paint the red plastic
keys?
I'm thinking about having a key machined out of aluminum if the plastic key
cannot be painted.
Stan Sutterfield
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: More SD8 Installation Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Don,
I mounted the SD-8 regulator, capacitor, S703-1 relay, and OVM-14 on the hot side
of the firewall above the battery in the upper left corner looking aft on
my RV*. No problem for over 2 years and 265 hours. Granted this is a pretty
cool area.
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Bob and Larry
Thanks for your help.
What I want is to run both units from one buss and alternatively both units
from the other buss. And also have an Off position (both units Off).
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 12/24/2005 7:38:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> lm4@juno.com writes:
>
> Bob,
> Nice to hear from you. You can put a buss wire on the center pole of the
> on-off-on switch and that will run either unit. But it was my
> understanding that Carlos wanted to run one unit off one buss and both
> units off the other buss. Maybe I got that screwed up !
> Larry Mac Donald
> lm4@juno.com
> Rochester N.Y.
>
>
> You are probably correct, I didn't read the original question.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 12/25/2005 7:48:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
trigo@mail.telepac.pt writes:
Bob and Larry
Thanks for your help.
What I want is to run both units from one buss and alternatively both units
from the other buss. And also have an Off position (both units Off).
Carlos
Good Morning And Merry Christmas Carlos,
From the above comment, I assume you have no objection to both units being
connected to each other.
That equates to having only one point that needs power.
If that point is connected to the center contact of a single pole, double
throw, center off switch, one source of power may be connected to each of the
other contacts to provide exactly what you need.
Switch up will power both units from one source, switch down will power both
units from the other source and the center position will provide off for
both units.
Will that satisfy your requirements?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Mac Donald <lm4@juno.com>
Carlos,
Bob caught me in a brain dead condition. In order to do
it my way you would have to put a diode into that term
1 to term 6 jumper. I'd forgotten that part of such a circuit.
But forget it because you've just changed the conditions
you want. To do it the way you want to do it now, that is the
way I understand it. You want to: Put buss #1 onto term. #3
and buss #2 onto term. #4. Then unit #1 feed to term. #1
jumpered to term. #5. Then unit #2 feed to term. #2 jumpered
to term. #6. In this condition both units will operate with the
bat handle up or down but from different busses. Center
position will isolate both busses.
Larry
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
> <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
> Bob and Larry
Thanks for your help.
> What I want is to run both units from one buss and alternatively
> both units
> from the other buss. And also have an Off position (both units Off).
Carlos
> From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Choosing a switch and learn how to
> wire it
AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
> > In a message dated 12/24/2005 7:38:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > lm4@juno.com writes:
> > Bob,
> > Nice to hear from you. You can put a buss wire on the center pole
> of the on-off-on switch and that will run either unit. But it was my
> > understanding that Carlos wanted to run one unit off one buss and
> both units off the other buss. Maybe I got that screwed up !
> > Larry Mac Donald
> > lm4@juno.com
> > Rochester N.Y.
> > You are probably correct, I didn't read the original question.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Manual Battery switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:57 AM 12/25/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
>Have any builders opted to use manual battery switches? If so, do they work
>well? Any problem with the "keys?" Is there a way to paint the red plastic
>keys?
>I'm thinking about having a key machined out of aluminum if the plastic key
>cannot be painted.
>Stan Sutterfield
????Why???? . . . manual battery switches are perfectly
fine replacements for contactors. Many of the first
electrically fitted airplanes used them along with
manual starter switches.
But a manual battery switch needs to be as close to
the battery as your contactor would have been. Unless
your battery is handy to the pilot's seat, the battery
switch is not going to be handy either. I've known
several builders over the years who have crafted
Bowden controls to remotely operate a manual battery
switch. In this case, the 'key' was replaced with
a belcrank that translated the push-pull action of
a Bowden control into a rotary motion required by
the battery switch.
Can you describe your proposed installation in more
detail?
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: More SD8 Installation Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:38 PM 12/24/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
>
>
>Bob,
>First, Merry Christmas
>I am using Z13-8 and have a few questions. B&C says put the regulator and
>Capacitor on the cold side of the firewall. To keep high current wires out
>of the cab I would like to mount the regulator, capacitor, S703-1 relay, and
>OVM-14 on the hot side of the firewall. Are these items robust (heat and
>vibration wise) to live a long life on the hot side? If not can any of these
>that make sense be put on the hot side? Thanks for your advise. Don VS
Generally, yes. In particular, there are places on the firewall
that don't get all that hot . . . although we're still
contemplating the experiment that will put real numbers to
"not all that hot" . . .
The regulator is your major concern. Fully loaded, this puppy
generates a lot of heat and the last time I saw the design,
was marginally acceptable for dumping heat to the case.
It's more important that the regulator get mounted on some
heat sink . . . metal thick enough to carry heat away. Of
course, if the ambient temperatures are lower, this helps too.
But if the regulator is mounted on the back side of the firewall
sheet, the ability to cool is only slightly better than being
on the front side when the same sheet of metal is expected to
be the heatsink.
The safe, conservative thing to do is mount it inside. Lots
of folks have mounted them outside and have not reported
unsatisfactory service life . . . but this is purely anecdotal
along with any opinions offered one way or the other. If you WANT
to put it outside, then give it a try. Let us know what you
discover.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
trigo@mail.telepac.pt
Carlos et al.
A picture is worth 10,000 words. I can barely comprehend a description in
words of a discussion that would be best in pictures--Although I am
considering a complete text description of a Z-diagram for Bob N. to review
for April Fool's day.
Perhaps the real problem is how to get this discussion into images, diagrams
and sketches.
A Very Merry Christmas to All,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
---Leonard Cohen
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: More SD8 Installation Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 25 Dec 2005, at 10:56, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 10:38 PM 12/24/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
>>
>> Bob,
>> First, Merry Christmas
>> I am using Z13-8 and have a few questions. B&C says put the
>> regulator and
>> Capacitor on the cold side of the firewall. To keep high current
>> wires out
>> of the cab I would like to mount the regulator, capacitor, S703-1
>> relay, and
>> OVM-14 on the hot side of the firewall. Are these items robust
>> (heat and
>> vibration wise) to live a long life on the hot side? If not can
>> any of these
>> that make sense be put on the hot side? Thanks for your advise.
>> Don VS
>
> The safe, conservative thing to do is mount it inside. Lots
> of folks have mounted them outside and have not reported
> unsatisfactory service life . . . but this is purely anecdotal
> along with any opinions offered one way or the other. If you WANT
> to put it outside, then give it a try. Let us know what you
> discover.
But, most people install the SD-8 to have as a backup in case the
main alternator fails. Main alternators don't fail that often, so I
bet most installed SD-8s have never been used for very long. The
apparently good service history might not mean that much.
No matter where you install it, if you are counting on it to power
your electrical system with a certain electrical load, for a given
duration, you should demonstrate this capability by actual test. If
you haven't demonstrated the capability, including electrical load,
duration and ambient temperature, you have no way of knowing whether
the SD-8 (and regulator) will be able to do the job when needed. A
short test is not sufficient, as it might not get the regulator up to
its stabilized temperature.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 10
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Subject: | Re:More SD8 Installation Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
The poster doesn't indicate what flavor of RV he is building. If you install the
regulator/capacitor/relay combination (and the relay is flimsy plastic), on
the left side of the firewall of a 6,7 or 9, it will sit behind the oil cooler
outlet and exposed to a blast of 150 - 200F+ air(on a hot climb-day).
If it were me, I'd find an "accessible" location on the cold side and put it there.
The upper right side on a 7/9 might be OK but you'd need to move the brake
reservoir.
All this depends on battery location. If it's on the hotside you should watch out
that you don't hang something above it too close that you can't remove it from
the case for service or replacement.
Mike Holland
Do not archive
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Re: switching off an IR alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
I have the exact same alternator and familiar with the
instructions
you quote.
>*..at low RPM will cause extra strain on the alternator and
>drive belt.*
Way too much has been made of the words *extra strain*. Just replace the
word *strain* with effort or force. The intent is only to be aware that at
idle you may not have rated output and load MAY need to be moderated.
The belt clearly needs to transmit greater torque with high (electrical)
demand at low RPM's.
Is it critical? No, I can't imagine it's critical to the belt, but it makes a point.
P=power (watts)
rpm = revs per min
You can see if P(watts) goes up or RPM goes down, T or torque goes
up. The higher torque the more the belt strains, albeit not critical.
Belts on cars experience wildly varying RPM's all the time; these belts run
accessories like A/C compressors and power steering pumps; I think
they may have it worse than our alternator belt runing at one RPM.
Take it for what it is. Spin alternator faster if you want to use it's rated
power or watch your total load or *strain*, by sizing the alternator
properly or reducing load at low RPM's.
>*Consider reducing the total load in these situations, or switching
>the alternator off*
Given the choice I would lower the load on the alternator.
Notice the word CONSIDER. It does not say do it. I personally would not
do it. An occasional non-continuous high load at low RPM is not critical.
Allowed too long the alternator may heat the alternator up and it may shut
down (automatically). The nice part of the internal regulator is if the
alternator runs hot it will shut itself down. Having the regulator actually
on the alternator allows it monitor temp and protect it. However you don't
want to intentionally run your alternator HOT or *strain* it.
However I have SIZED my alternator to provide the proper
available power for the load, even at idle. The only chance I
would need to load shed, is at idle, night with a long delay.
For me my pulley ratio is 3 to 1, some may have a 3.9 to 1 ratio.
Fast idle (say 1000 rpm) my alternator is only at 3000 rpm, which equates
to about 30 amps. If I need 30 amps I could increase the RPM to about
1670 RPM to get rated output (43amps) or just lower load. Since my
typical realistic night taxi load is around 21 amps I am OK, but I don't
have heated pitot or seats. Everything on would be at 31 amps, so I do
have to watch it to some degree.
>*Thus, I gather that not all IR alternators are created equal and
>that switching off this alternator is considered a normal activity.*
As far as regulators being different that is true, but you have a
genuine ND all made in Japan alternator and the regulator is part
number: 126000-1160 and has the following specs (equiv
aftermarket):
http://195.125.241.148/catalog/spec_d/IN254.gif
or
http://www.vicic.com.tw/alternators/a8062902.jpg
Notice the above specs for fun and giggles. The IR function's
as you can see is not just voltage control only.
Bottom line:
Never have a routine reason to switch alternator off under load
IGN wire can't be relied on for emergency isolation, so.
CB on the B-lead to isolate alternator for non-normal conditions
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Holiday's
G
>From: Joelrhaynes@aol.com
>Subject: switching off an IR alternator
>I was surprised when I read the documentation that came with
>my new CAM 040AD IR alternator that came attached to my
>new Aero. came with the documentation is in
>Japanese. Note the following quote from the product
>documentation.
>"Conditions in which a very high draw is being made of the
>alternator at low RPM will cause extra strain on the alternator
>and drive belt. Consider reducing the total load in these
>situations, or switching the alternator off and drawing from the
>battery only, if the high load will be brief."
>Thus, I gather that not all IR alternators are created equal and
>that switching off this alternator is considered a normal activity.
>Joel Haynes
>RV-7A (hanging the engine)
>Bozeman, MT
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Bob ...
Assuming front and rear batt are equally charged. For an IO-360 engine
start I want to tie both batts together for max start energy. Front batt
CABLE to starter is #4 for approx 6 feet. Rear batt WIRE will be 8 feet and
will tie to the #4 Cable for start. Rear batt is 26AH, front is 20AH.
What is the WIRE size needed to enable the rear batt to boost the front batt
and not over heat the WIRE? Easy answer is to use CABLE from the rear batt
but I'm betting there is another answer. I want to avoid using CABLE from
rear batt.
Thanks for your patient teachings and great answers...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A
Message 13
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Subject: | [ Jeff Smith ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jeff Smith <SMITHBKN@aol.com>
Lists: AeroElectric-List
Subject: Requesting Peer Review of Electrical Architecture
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/SMITHBKN@aol.com.12.25.2005/index.html
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Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Re: switching off an IR alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:54 AM 12/25/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
>I have the exact same alternator and familiar with the instructions
>you quote.
>
> >*..at low RPM will cause extra strain on the alternator and
> >drive belt.*
>
> >Way too much has been made of the words *extra strain*. Just replace the
> >word *strain* with effort or force. The intent is only to be aware that at
> >idle you may not have rated output and load MAY need to be moderated.
>
> >The belt clearly needs to transmit greater torque with high (electrical)
> >demand at low RPM's.
>
> >Is it critical? No, I can't imagine it's critical to the belt, but it
> makes a point.
What point? I could say, "Touching down at 60Kts puts an 'extra strain'
on tires. I recommend you make an effort to avoid putting the wheels
on the ground at more than 55Kts.
Or how about, "Turning the pitot heater on causes 'extra strain' on
the electrical system due to very high inrush currents while the
heater is cold. Recommend you turn everything else off before
turning the pitot heater ON. Wait at least 30 seconds before
bringing other equipment back on line."
Placarding an airplane for such silliness could get one drummed
out of the business. This whole discussion on "extra strain"
on alternators and belts is similarly silly.
>
> >Take it for what it is. Spin alternator faster if you want to use it's
> rated
> >power or watch your total load or *strain*, by sizing the alternator
> >properly or reducing load at low RPM's.
What are "low RPMs"? The alternator's ability to draw
torque is maximum at or above minimum speed for full
output. Below those speeds, torque MUST go down with
RPM because the ability of the magnetics to change
mechanical energy to electrical energy goes down. I haven't
talked with who ever thought this myth up but it seems
to suggest that as speeds drop, torque goes UP proportionately
so that at, say 1/2 speed for full output, one might expect
to DOUBLE the torque the alternator can draw. It's simply
not so.
Yes. Turn things ON, strains on systems go up. You turn
things OFF and strains go down. #1 rule of system design is
to accommodate all strains under all operating conditions
such that any need to nurse the system for strains goes
away. The best way to avoid straining an engine is never
feed it fuel and start it up. But if you want to go fly,
and you want to run electro-whizzies, then the systems
you put in place to accommodate the mission should be
sized to the task. ALL strains in all systems are
taken in stride as the normal and expected course of
events. It's the good engineering way.
If one takes this topic for what it truly is . . . an
anecdotal fact with no operational relevance then the
need to discuss it evaporates. Seriously discussing
such trivial concerns does not help the neophyte builder
and in fact, evidence shows that it raises unwarranted
concerns and propagates myths.
One strives to design a system that minimizes pilot workload,
minimizes probability of uncomfortable termination of flight
and minimizes cost of ownership. Teaching our fellow builders
how to worry about the manner and sequence in which the
alternator is loaded is either (1) a manifestation of poor
system design or (2) BS. Let's help our friends avoid the first
and accurately identify the second.
I still want to talk to any supplier who offers
such advice for either physics that help us design around
over-stressing their product or demonstrates that they too
have succumbed to someone's popular myth. In any case,
advising the builder/designer to incorporate such operational
concerns into their project is not good design or marketing.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: [ Jeff Smith ] : New Email List Photo Share |
Available!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Available!
2 questions: how do you draw that in Excel? I'd like to know how to do that.
Will that battery relay carry the starter current okay?
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: [ Jeff Smith ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
<pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
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Message 16
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Subject: | Re: 2 Battery RV8A |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:17 PM 12/25/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
>Bob ...
>Assuming front and rear batt are equally charged. For an IO-360 engine
>start I want to tie both batts together for max start energy. Front batt
>CABLE to starter is #4 for approx 6 feet. Rear batt WIRE will be 8 feet and
>will tie to the #4 Cable for start. Rear batt is 26AH, front is 20AH.
>
>What is the WIRE size needed to enable the rear batt to boost the front batt
>and not over heat the WIRE? Easy answer is to use CABLE from the rear batt
>but I'm betting there is another answer. I want to avoid using CABLE from
>rear batt.
>Thanks for your patient teachings and great answers...
#4awg is fine for all. There's no compelling reason
to attempt to "balance" duties of the two batteries . . .
particularly in the cranking mode (seconds per flight
hour).
Bob . . .
Message 17
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Subject: | Alternator torque (switching off an IR alternator) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Goguen, Jon" <Jon.Goguen@umassmed.edu>
I don't know how relevant it is to any particular installation, but if an alternator
is delivering constant power the torgue will indeed double as the RPM is
halved. The relevant equation is the same for alternators as it is for electric
motors: power output is directly proportional to the product of RPM and torque.
So, if an alternator is capable or delivering 350 watts (25 amps @ 14 volts)
at 1500 RPM, twice the torque is needed to yield this power as would required
to get 350 watts from the same same alternator at 3000 RPM. Of course,
the alternator may not be capable of twice the power (700 watts) at the higher
RPM due to magnetic saturation etc, but that isn't the issue. If one were designing
an alternator drive mechanism, the power to be delivered by the alternator
at low RPM would be a key factor in determining the torque requirement for
the drive. The torque required for power generation is much larger than that
contributed by rotor inertia and friction in automotive alternators.
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls,
III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: switching off an IR alternator
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:54 AM 12/25/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
>I have the exact same alternator and familiar with the instructions
>you quote.
>
> >*..at low RPM will cause extra strain on the alternator and
> >drive belt.*
>
> >Way too much has been made of the words *extra strain*. Just replace the
> >word *strain* with effort or force. The intent is only to be aware that at
> >idle you may not have rated output and load MAY need to be moderated.
>
> >The belt clearly needs to transmit greater torque with high (electrical)
> >demand at low RPM's.
>
> >Is it critical? No, I can't imagine it's critical to the belt, but it
> makes a point.
What point? I could say, "Touching down at 60Kts puts an 'extra strain'
on tires. I recommend you make an effort to avoid putting the wheels
on the ground at more than 55Kts.
Or how about, "Turning the pitot heater on causes 'extra strain' on
the electrical system due to very high inrush currents while the
heater is cold. Recommend you turn everything else off before
turning the pitot heater ON. Wait at least 30 seconds before
bringing other equipment back on line."
Placarding an airplane for such silliness could get one drummed
out of the business. This whole discussion on "extra strain"
on alternators and belts is similarly silly.
>
> >Take it for what it is. Spin alternator faster if you want to use it's
> rated
> >power or watch your total load or *strain*, by sizing the alternator
> >properly or reducing load at low RPM's.
What are "low RPMs"? The alternator's ability to draw
torque is maximum at or above minimum speed for full
output. Below those speeds, torque MUST go down with
RPM because the ability of the magnetics to change
mechanical energy to electrical energy goes down. I haven't
talked with who ever thought this myth up but it seems
to suggest that as speeds drop, torque goes UP proportionately
so that at, say 1/2 speed for full output, one might expect
to DOUBLE the torque the alternator can draw. It's simply
not so.
Yes. Turn things ON, strains on systems go up. You turn
things OFF and strains go down. #1 rule of system design is
to accommodate all strains under all operating conditions
such that any need to nurse the system for strains goes
away. The best way to avoid straining an engine is never
feed it fuel and start it up. But if you want to go fly,
and you want to run electro-whizzies, then the systems
you put in place to accommodate the mission should be
sized to the task. ALL strains in all systems are
taken in stride as the normal and expected course of
events. It's the good engineering way.
If one takes this topic for what it truly is . . . an
anecdotal fact with no operational relevance then the
need to discuss it evaporates. Seriously discussing
such trivial concerns does not help the neophyte builder
and in fact, evidence shows that it raises unwarranted
concerns and propagates myths.
One strives to design a system that minimizes pilot workload,
minimizes probability of uncomfortable termination of flight
and minimizes cost of ownership. Teaching our fellow builders
how to worry about the manner and sequence in which the
alternator is loaded is either (1) a manifestation of poor
system design or (2) BS. Let's help our friends avoid the first
and accurately identify the second.
I still want to talk to any supplier who offers
such advice for either physics that help us design around
over-stressing their product or demonstrates that they too
have succumbed to someone's popular myth. In any case,
advising the builder/designer to incorporate such operational
concerns into their project is not good design or marketing.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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Subject: | Terminals for M22520/5-100 die |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Goguen, Jon" <Jon.Goguen@umassmed.edu>
Thanks Bob. I had a very curious conversation with Daniels trying to get this
information. I told them which tool and die I had, and asked for reccomended
terminals. I was told that they couldn't provide this information. However,
they did say offer to confirm if the die would crimp a specific terminal if I
provided the part number. I told them I had consulted their catalog, and that
this die was the only one listed for crimping pre-insulated terminals from 10-26
AWG. No good. I was told that the proper sequence is to specifiy my terminals,
then buy the tool. I suggested that if their computer could work the problem
one way, it ought to also be workable the other way around. Nope. They
then asked if I was in the aircraft industry, and I admitted my outsider status.
They seemed releived to know this, and provided no more information.
I was also unsuccessful in finding mil-spec status for either the PIDG or Avicrimp
terminals, so would have been reduced to the experimental route if you hadn't
come through. By the way, the Daniels HX-4 with this die seems to be quite
common on Ebay and sells in $50 range.
Thanks again,
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls,
III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Terminals for M22520/5-100 die
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:54 PM 12/19/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umassmed.edu>
>
>I recently bought a Daniels HX-4 crimping tool with an M22520/5-100
>(Daniels Y501) die for pre-insulated terminals in AWG 10-26 range.
>Anyone know which brands of terminals work well with this die?
Found the die listed on p.31 of
http://www.astrotool.com/pdf/Astro.pdf
but nothing in this document that explains
Die set used with 620175 crimp tool frame to crimp size 22 thru 10
insulated terminals and splices conforming to MS17143, MS25036, MIL-T-7928,
MS25274, and
MS27429. The 630045 die set is an improved version (not mil-spec) which
provides a tighter crimp on smaller wires.
Sorry to take so long on this. Had to go look some things
up. The AMP PIDG terminals are in the MS25036 family
of military qualified devices. Therefore, the tool
you're asking about should do nicely with these highly
recommended terminals (along with other equivalent brands
like Molex "Avicrimp")
Bob . . .
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Choosing a switch and learn how to wire it |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
"But it was my understanding that Carlos wanted to run one unit off one buss
and both units off the other buss. Maybe I got that screwed up !"
Larry and Old Bob,
What Carlos said was,
"what I want is a switch that has 1
OFF position (no power for both EFIS units), 1 ON position (power from one
source bus is feeding both units) and other ON position (power from 2nd
source bus is feeding both units"
So, I read it that He wants to power both EFIS units simultaneously with
either bus.
It seems as though Larry's solution would work.
Stan Sutterfield
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