Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:15 AM - Wiring Diagrams (SMITHBKN@aol.com)
2. 10:17 AM - White on black placards (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:56 AM - Re: Wiring Diagrams (Bill Schlatterer)
4. 11:40 AM - Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 12:03 PM - Use Of Diode on S704-1 Relay (dsvs@comcast.net)
6. 12:08 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Craig Payne)
7. 01:07 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Ken)
8. 01:39 PM - Re: Wiring Diagrams (Lynn Riggs)
9. 01:49 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Craig Payne)
10. 02:38 PM - [ Bill Schlatterer ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
11. 07:43 PM - Re: Wiring Diagrams Design SoftwareWiring Diagrams Design Software (John Burnaby)
12. 10:49 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Breaker v. Fuse (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SMITHBKN@aol.com
Fellow Listers,
I was asked by someone on the group to share how I developed my wiring
diagram using Excel rather than one of the software programs dedicated to things
electrical. I use Excel a fair amount at work so I am pretty familiar with
it. Most people think of Excel as a spreadsheet and number cruncher, but it
has some basic graphic/drawing capabilities too.
I simply used the basic drawing capabilities in Excel, drew up various
components using standard shapes to create an inventory of things like lamps,
relays, switches, etc. and then started to use them in the design of my system
which is patterened off of one of the Z-diagrams so graciously provided by Bob.
What accompanies the system diagram in my Excel file is a component list, a
wiring spec sheet (shows size, type, and terminations of each wire), a load
analysis, and a few others worksheets for misc. things like switch layout, buss
loads, etc.
In this manner I have everything electrical for my RV-7A project in one
program and all spreadsheets are linked to one other so that changes get
propogated through the system appropriately.
I've posted a slimmed down version of my files on the Matronics File/Photo
share site in an attempt to get some peer reviews of my system since I'm
actually a rookie as things electrical. If the files and use of Excel have a
benefit to others in the group .... great. I would like to be able to give
something back to those that have helped me along.
Jeff Smith
Knoxville, TN
RV-7A .... electrical
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | White on black placards |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
There was some discussion earlier this week on cheap-n-dirty
white on black placarding. Here's a picture of a placard
I did for a client's project. The placard was laid out in
Photoshop as black on white then reversed (most photo editing
programs will let you do this). The placard was printed on
a laserjet (nice black carboin toner), trimmed and laminated.
Sams Clubs and many internet stores have low cost laminators.
Having lots of small lamination materials around is easy too . . .
the materials kits have an assortment of sizes and except for
my placarding jobs, I would have an overflow of the seldom
used smaller sizes.
These are quite sharp and very thin. They're installed with
adhesive transfer tape available from office supplies, art
supplies and photography materials stores.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/White_on_Black_Placard.jpg
When mounted on a black or grey panel, the sealing edge
around the placard all but disappears.
Bob . . .
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Just a minor point is that in addition to the drawing capabilities in Excel,
later versions have a "Flow Chart" library built in under the AutoShapes
menu. It allows you to select various shapes and line styles and connect
points using several different kind of connecting lines very similar to
Visio or other high end flow chart programs. I find it very handy as it
allows you to move shapes and the connecting lines are moved with them. For
example, if you choose the diamond shape, you can attach lines to any of the
four points and then simply drag the shape where you want it and the lines
automatically refresh in the new location. This is real handy after you
have spent a lot of time and just want to move something around to make the
diagram clear. Play with it a little bit. Get the lines off the custom
drawing menu.
For some reason, the connecting lines are not shown in the Flow Chart window
that pops up under AutoShapes but if go to customize the tool bar and then
look under the AutoShapes tools, you can drag all kinds of connecting lines
to the visible tool bar. By connecting, I mean that the shapes all have
connecting points where the lines physically attach. I know this isn't clear
if you're not Excel'ish but if someone wants the detail, I can send a screen
shot that will make it more obvious.
My .02
Bill S
7a Ark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SMITHBKN@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Diagrams
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SMITHBKN@aol.com
Fellow Listers,
I was asked by someone on the group to share how I developed my wiring
diagram using Excel rather than one of the software programs dedicated to
things
electrical. I use Excel a fair amount at work so I am pretty familiar with
it. Most people think of Excel as a spreadsheet and number cruncher, but
it
has some basic graphic/drawing capabilities too.
I simply used the basic drawing capabilities in Excel, drew up various
components using standard shapes to create an inventory of things like
lamps,
relays, switches, etc. and then started to use them in the design of my
system
which is patterened off of one of the Z-diagrams so graciously provided by
Bob.
What accompanies the system diagram in my Excel file is a component list, a
wiring spec sheet (shows size, type, and terminations of each wire), a load
analysis, and a few others worksheets for misc. things like switch layout,
buss
loads, etc.
In this manner I have everything electrical for my RV-7A project in one
program and all spreadsheets are linked to one other so that changes get
propogated through the system appropriately.
I've posted a slimmed down version of my files on the Matronics File/Photo
share site in an attempt to get some peer reviews of my system since I'm
actually a rookie as things electrical. If the files and use of Excel have
a
benefit to others in the group .... great. I would like to be able to give
something back to those that have helped me along.
Jeff Smith
Knoxville, TN
RV-7A .... electrical
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Emailed to jim@canadianaeromanufacturing.com on 12/30/05
Good afternoon sir,
By way of introduction, I'm currently an electrical engineer
for Raytheon Aircraft (Beech) in Wichita, KS. I've been professionally
associated with aircraft electrics and electronics off and on for
about 44 years.
I have a hobby business that supports the owner built and maintained
aircraft business based from my website at http://aeroelectric.com
I publish a book and conduct educational seminars for OBAM aircraft
community. I also participate in an electrical/avionics list-server
(forum) on matronics.com called the AeroElectric List.
Subscribers to the AeroElectric-List have on several occasions made
note of a paragraph in the installation instructions for your 40A
alternator which I quote . . .
"Conditions in which a very high draw is being made of the alternator at
low RPM will cause extra
strain on the alternator and drive belt. Consider reducing the total
load in these situations, or
switching the alternator off and drawing from the battery only, if the
high load will be brief."
I'm mystified by this assertion. Can you help me in assisting your
customer's understanding of the physics that makes this operating
philosophy useful? I'm wondering as to the magnitude of "extra strain"
over and above those conditions for which the alternator was designed
to operate. Can you give me the conditions for load and rpm at which
alternator torque is maximum under it's normal operating modes.
I'd like to understand how high and for how long any mis-operation of the
alternator by the pilot can exceed this value and by how much.
Can you enlighten me as to which components of the alternator
are at-risk and by what magnitude? In other words, what can the
operator expect in terms of extended service life of the alternator
or belt by observing this operating protocol?
I'm also curious as to what is meant by "low RPM" . . . Can you
put a number on this? I presume you can give me the number in shaft
RPMs of the alternator so that the owner/operator can accurately
deduce the corresponding engine RPM for his particular installation.
I believe the future of light aircraft in general aviation is
firmly rooted and highly dependent upon the OBAM aircraft industry.
Your willingness to support this important segment of general
aviation with quality products is much appreciated. If there's
any way I might assist you in this endeavor, please let me know!
In the mean time, it would be very helpful for me to understand your
product better so that I might accurately advise your customers
who post questions to the AeroElectric List.
Happy new year!
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Use Of Diode on S704-1 Relay |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net
Hi Bob,
On Diagram z-32 you show a diode between the coil wires on the S704 relay. On
Z-13/8 the S704 that is used in the alternate alternator circuit has an OVM-14
but no diiode. Will you explain why there is no diode present in one circuit
and there is one present in the other? Does the OVM-14 negate the need for the
diode? Thanks. Don
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
As a side note the labeling products like the Brother P-touch line offer
white-on-black tapes:
http://www.brothermall.com/accessory_detail.asp?mscssid=8C857699C5A547888C58
CEF27C70BD68&sku=TZ335&dept_id=167
Tapes of all colors are available in widths up to 3/4". The labelers can
"stack" lines across the width of the tape.
Other color combinations offered are black-on-clear, black-on-white,
red-on-white, gold-on-black and black-on-yellow.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
--> <emjones@charter.net>
I mentioned some time back that inkjet printers can be used to make decals
for instrument panel switch labels. This is an enabling technology. You can
make pictures, symbols, placards, logos, nose art, enemy flag symbols for
your imaginary combat victories, etc.
Several people have had good success with this....then one person
inquired--"What about white ink?"
I was flumoxed...There must be some somewhere. But I was introduced to the
curious fact that white ink for inkjets simply does not exist. You can get
fluorescent yellow, purple, neon colors, even light gray...but not white.
This took some searching but I located the world's only (!) white inkjet ink
made in large cartridges only for $22k Roland commercial injet printers and
bought some to decant into smaller 15 ml vials. You can buy virgin empty
cartridges for you own inkjet printer and go from there.
Interested parties contact me off-list. The rest will sell on eBay. I don't
sell the other products for this decal-label-inkjet thing, but just Google
"inkjet decals", etc.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"...Beans for supper tonight, six o'clock.
Navy beans cooked in Oklahoma ham...
Got to eat 'em with a spoon, raw onions
and cornbread; nothing else...."
--Will Rogers
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Labels |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Don't forget my favourite "white on clear tape"
Looks good on my gray panel although the idea of doing more complex
printer graphics in interesting.
Ken
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>As a side note the labeling products like the Brother P-touch line offer
>white-on-black tapes:
>
>http://www.brothermall.com/accessory_detail.asp?mscssid=8C857699C5A547888C58
>CEF27C70BD68&sku=TZ335&dept_id=167
>
>Tapes of all colors are available in widths up to 3/4". The labelers can
>"stack" lines across the width of the tape.
>
>Other color combinations offered are black-on-clear, black-on-white,
>red-on-white, gold-on-black and black-on-yellow.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lynn Riggs <riggs_la@yahoo.com>
Jeff,
Do you have an address for where you posted your excel files?
SMITHBKN@aol.com wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SMITHBKN@aol.com
I've posted a slimmed down version of my files on the Matronics File/Photo
share site in an attempt to get some peer reviews of my system since I'm
actually a rookie as things electrical. If the files and use of Excel have a
benefit to others in the group .... great. I would like to be able to give
something back to those that have helped me along.
Jeff Smith
Knoxville, TN
RV-7A .... electrical
Lynn A. Riggs
riggs_la@yahoo.com
St. Paul, MN
BH #656 Kit #22
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
"Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the
people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only
safe depositories." -- Thomas Jefferson
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
The P-touch itself can also frame the text with a rectangle with rounded
corners. And it offers the conventional effects like multiple fonts, font
size, bold, italic and underline. This is for my basic PT-1800 labeler. The
PT-1500PC connects to you computer and can do much more - just about
anything you can draw or type on your computer. It goes for about $80.
http://www.advizia.com/brother/modelDetail.asp?PkgID=382265&User=ptouch&Rnd817
-- Craig
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | [ Bill Schlatterer ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bill Schlatterer <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Lists: AeroElectric-List
Subject: Excel Tools for drawing electrical schematics.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net.12.30.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design SoftwareWiring Diagrams |
Design Software
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impulse.net>
I use TurboCAD v.7, for all kinds of designing and what-iffing. The software will
import common AutoCAD formats (.dxf, .dwg) and converts its native format to
these as well. I'm not an engineer, and I found TurboCAD's learning curve easy
to negotiate as a total CAD novice. It came with a large library of electrical
symbols or you can roll your own of anything you can dream up. You can "group"
individual components so that they act like one entity (for moving, coloring,
etc.) or you can "explode" an entity so that you can modify an individual
component. I find it all easy to do. The program is a full blown 3-D CAD program
and I've seen 3-D renderings that accomplished users have done and they are
truly amazing, but I've never had a need to go there. The program is several
versions down the road from v. 7 by now, but I will not even approach the capabilities
of v.7 in my lifetime. I paid about $60-70 for mine, but v. 10.2 is
advertised on-line for $49.
v 9.2 for $19.95.
Do not archive
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breaker v. Fuse |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:28 PM 12/29/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J." BRogers@fdic.gov
>
>...snip...
> >My question is this. If I use 18 awg wire
> >with a 10 amp fuse from the power bus up to the 5 amp circuit breaker,
> >will the 5 amp breaker trip before the 10 amp fuse blows in the event of
> >a dead short in the wire, such as from a Crowbar OV Module?
>
> >I do not want the fuse at the power bus to blow before the circuit
> >breaker pops,
>
>The expectation is that a smaller CB is faster than a bigger one. But be
>very careful. You could be wrong.
>
> >Somewhere, I read that fuses react faster than circuit breakers, so I am
> >asking how many more amps does the fuse have to carry
> >before I can be sure that it will not blow before the 5 amp CB pops.
>
>In general, fuses depend on thermal heating to break and this has some time
>lags. Circuit breakes usually do too, but breakers can be magnetic or
>electronic and can operate at any speed.
>
> >the alternator cannot be reset in flight from a nuisance trip.
>
>Google " AeroElectric nuisance OR false trips " then decide.
>
> >Any advice will be appreciated.
>
>My advice is don't use a crowbar, then none of this will be an issue.
How is this useful? I did Google the phrases you suggested
and got the full dump of most of the threads on the topic
that were posted on this list server.
There has never been an argument that some combinations of
the AeroElectric/B&C ov protection systems needed tweaking.
Much has been made of a handful of individuals who CLAIM to
have had a lot of trouble but declined to take us up on our
100% satisfaction guarantee for refund on materials unsuited
to the buyer's wants/needs.
I made an offer right here on the list to refund the purchase
price of any crowbar ov product purchased from me along with
a bonus of $50. Gee, you'd think that at least one unhappy
customer would come forward to claim his $85 prize. I spent
hours of research for hard data to back up the engineering
choices on our product and received nothing back but blue
smoke and mud balls.
Nothing is mentioned about failures in the Van's alternator
installations being just as susceptible to the load-dump
damage irrespective of what type of ov protection is offered . . .
but lots of inferences that figure Z-24 was the root cause
of the failures and was to be avoided. I note that
Niagra Airparts is offering an ov protection system for their
40A alternator installation. See:
http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ASP101-PIT%201.pdf
Hmmmm . . . amazing similar to Z-24 . . . do you suppose that
an owner/builder could blow up his alternator with this
system too?
Nothing is said in these threads or other on-line discussions
about the thousands of systems flying for nearly 20 years in
OBAM aircraft and now probably over 1000 systems flying in
type certificated aircraft. The only words speaking to our
demonstrated willingness to fix what ever problems do arise
came from myself. I only wish some of the multi$kilo$
systems I wrestle with on bizjets had so high a field
service record as the crowbar ov system we've sold to GA
light aircraft.
If you're suggesting that a prudent buying decision can
be made based on the search terms you've suggested . . .
well . . . the dearth of logic in this advice is self
evident. You've ridden this horse to death sir. Give it
up.
Bob . . .
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|