---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/06/06: 55 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:57 AM - Re: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: (Bill Denton) 3. 05:38 AM - Re: Symbols library (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:06 AM - Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 06:24 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (John Schroeder) 7. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: what is an engineer.... (Steven Anderson) 8. 07:20 AM - Re: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, (Bill Denton) 9. 07:28 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 10. 07:56 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 53 Msgs - 01/05/06 (Lee Logan) 11. 07:57 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Harley) 12. 08:13 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 08:18 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Harley) 14. 08:33 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (TimRhod@aol.com) 15. 08:49 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 08:56 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 17. 09:14 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Beckman, Rick) 18. 09:34 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Brinker) 19. 09:36 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (B Tomm) 20. 09:36 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (John Schroeder) 21. 09:41 AM - Re: Symbols library (Steve Allison) 22. 09:51 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Carlos Trigo) 23. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology (Chuck Jensen) 24. 10:09 AM - SNIMTA_SPAM Re (Dave Morris \) 25. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: what is an engineer.... (Dave Morris \) 26. 10:18 AM - Panel pic (Harley) 27. 10:38 AM - Re: Panel pic (Deems Davis) 28. 10:43 AM - Re: Panel pic (sportav8r@aol.com) 29. 11:05 AM - Re: Panel pic (TimRhod@aol.com) 30. 11:11 AM - Re: Panel pic (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 31. 11:12 AM - what is an engineer () 32. 11:27 AM - Re: Symbols library (Jerry Grimmonpre) 33. 11:36 AM - Re: Panel pic (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 34. 11:40 AM - EFIS Backup EFIS? (Ernest Christley) 35. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: what is an engineer.... (Eric M. Jones) 36. 12:00 PM - Re: Panel pic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 37. 12:09 PM - Re: Panel pic (Harley) 38. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology (BobsV35B@aol.com) 39. 12:18 PM - Re: Panel pic (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 40. 12:21 PM - Re: Panel pic (Harley) 41. 12:44 PM - Re: Panel pic (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 42. 01:08 PM - Re: Panel pic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 43. 01:35 PM - Re: Panel pic (Alan K. Adamson) 44. 02:45 PM - Re: Panel backlit (Dave Morris \) 45. 02:53 PM - Re: Panel pic (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 46. 02:55 PM - Re: Panel pic (Reginald E. DeLoach) 47. 04:08 PM - Re: Panel backlit (Alan K. Adamson) 48. 04:54 PM - Re: (Craig Payne) 49. 05:16 PM - Re: Panel backlit (glaesers) 50. 05:51 PM - Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) (Brian Lloyd) 51. 05:56 PM - Re: what is an engineer (Bret Smith) 52. 06:16 PM - TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) (BobsV35B@aol.com) 53. 07:25 PM - Re: Panel pic (John Schroeder) 54. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips (Mike Holland) 55. 11:07 PM - Re: SNIMTA_SPAM Re (AI Nut) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:46 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" >I cant resist asking how many on the list would ask the butcher to take their appendix out rather than a qualified Dr. They both cut meat. Good point Steve, only a lot of Doctors are Butchers, believe me. Problem is , how do we tell the difference ? Likewise, not all Engineers are created equal ! How do we tell the difference ? I don't know the answers to either, but what I do know is that Bob Nuckolls does a hell of a lot for very ordinary people like myself out of the goodness of his heart. For all I know, gmcjetpilot may be an exceptionally brilliant Engineer and I hope he is, but would he be prepared to do what Bob does for little or no reward to help those like myself when he can earn $150K for a job and then laugh all the way to the bank as quoted by himself ? Do not archive Over and Out Kingsley ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:02 AM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply used pencils. Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Prather Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe on would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down).. An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the airplane after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, maybe? Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could be illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very annoying to be around. Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" > > > Bob, > What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, > leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the > master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention before > you leave and remind you of the Master left on. > David > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bob noffs" > To: "aeroelectric list" > Subject: AeroElectric-List: > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >> >> >> Hi all, >> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. >> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . >> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. >> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance >> Bob Noffs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:40 PM 1/5/2006 -0600, you wrote: Opps! I thought you'd been following the threads on various and sundry CAD and illustration programs here on the list. What program had you intended to use? My library was generated in AutoCAD . . . a very mature software package with a price to match. However, a number of upstarts have cracked the code for AutoCAD's native .dwg format so that they too can open, edit, print and save AutoCAD's files. One such program is TurboCAD. I just received a copy of V10 purchased off Ebay last week for about $23 post paid. See: http://ebay.com and search on "turbocad" I wish I'd purchased an older version now. There are some 9.2 packages for even less money. What I don't know is how far back you can go in TurboCAD and still open the drawings I generate in AutoCAD 2000. I believe someone on the List mentioned an version older than 10.0 that still worked with my drawings . . . perhaps he'll jump back in here and enlighten us. Be aware also that there are a number of wire-books in progress on my website. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Wirebook_Samples One in particular http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Wirebook_Samples/LAIVP.DWG is an extensive piece of work I did for a client several years ago that had to abandon his project and terminate my services. This drawing has about 90% of the work for your airplane's wire book already done. Your major task is to find software you're willing to pay for and then invest the time to learn to use it as needed to edit the drawing. I'm going to load up TurboCAD this weekend and play with it a bit. Bob . . . > > > > My apologies. I'd forgotten about some of the excess baggage in > > that directory. I simply zipped the whole thing as-is. I just went > > through > > all the files and dumped the mechanical and composite drawings. I think > > the files are 99% pure schematic symbols. The new file is only > > 425K. Try this: > > > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip > > > > Bob . . . > > >Thank you Bob ... >Your above link enabled me to download the icons of each file but then I >find I don't have the program to open them. I've spent a lot of time trying >to get to get the solution with no luck. > >What is the program title and version and might it be available on ebay? >Thanks for your help ... >Jerry Grimmonpre' > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:07 PM 1/5/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" > >OVM arrived today, will install this weekend and run some tests. Thanks >ever so much for checking this out. I don't have the equipment or skills >to attempt it and am glad this has alerted B&C to a possible parts problem. My pleasure! One of the most difficult tasks a designer has to do is offer field support on the products he/she creates. The customer's application is the final test-bed and one always hopes that problems will be few, small and easily fixed. But they cannot even be addressed without dialog and cooperation between the consumer and supplier after the product is delivered. I and all honorable suppliers DEPEND on dialog and cooperation to make sure the customer gets good value for their purchase. The ONLY situation that has provoked me to considerable anger in the various discussions about my products is when individuals indicated that they've injected themselves into the relationship between me and my customers to the extent that there were "unhappy users" who I was not permitted to know. Further, it was easy to assume that those same customers were spreading bad words about my products and services. I have no problem competing with any other honorable supplier of similar goods and services. But when subject of an overt crusade to discredit my talents and services while working to prevent me from making it right with a customer . . . well, I think it speaks volumes about the perpetrator. I've alerted B&C about our exchange. The OV you purchased SHOULD have been fitted with all mods appropriate to the current configuration. They're looking into how you came to receive the one you had. >I'll fly it with the fix and try to simulate the voltage fluctuations that >appeared to trigger the trips and report back. > >I may have additional problems however. The charging voltage seems a bit >high at 14.8 volts indicated. This would seem to reduce the "head-room" >for the OVM circuit? My recollection is that most charging systems >stabilize at around 13.8 while mine appears to remain higher than that by >about a volt. Yes, that's a bit high. Not terribly significant with respect to the OVM but kinda hard on batteries. >In testing this how much voltage difference should there be between the >b-lead and ground versus the field lead and ground, with the alternator >running? I'm beginning to suspect that there may be something amiss in >the field circuit that accounts for a higher output voltage than "normal". What you need to know is what voltage the REGULATOR thinks it sees. See figure 4-5 and associated text in the 'Connection. >I followed Z-13 & Z24 when wiring the disconnect relay and used 20g wire >for the field, is this adequate? Yes. I presume you have a single-point ground also. We'll need to get some high resolution (not necessarily "accurate" but resolution to 0.1v or better). See what V1 (bus) and V2 (regulator sense) voltages are. What kind of regulator are you using? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:00 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning Bill, That is fine for those who always do everything correctly. There are others of us that have found by unfortunate experience that we do make mistakes. Among those mistakes are omissions of actions called out in the check list that we thought we had accomplished. It also includes having forgotten to use a checklist even though we tell ourselves to always use the checklist. I have a reasonable number of hours flying single pilot and a lot more experience flying as a required crew member on aircraft requiring a multiple pilot crew. It is my considered opinion that aviation safety is best advanced by establishing procedures that do NOT rely on we humans doing everything correctly. The desired level of safety comes from establishing procedures and developing equipment that helps us discover our errors before those errors result in an incident. I strongly feel that the best move anyone can make to increase the safety of an operation is to add a second responsible crew member. Unfortunately, single pilot operations are required for most of us. Checklists are great. Flow patterns are great. Habit patterns are important. However, humans do make mistakes. Regardless of how omnipotent most of feel we are, I have yet to see a pilot who does not make mistakes. That includes the one who says: "I will never land gear up because I have developed a fool proof check list backed up by a fool proof flow pattern from which I never deviate." Personally, I will bet a milkshake that many pilots who made an unintentional gear up landing would have told you before hand that it could not happen to him/her. The pilot most likely to have an incident is the one who says it can't happen to me! A little fear is a wonderful thing. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 1/6/2006 7:19:06 A.M. Central Standard Time, bdenton@bdenton.com writes: Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Bevan - What website are you referencing? John (do not archive) On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:08:22 -0800, B Tomm wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" > > The website lists a product called "laser film". This is film that is > directly printed on in a standard laser printer or copier. I have not > contacted them yet so I don't know what the next step is in getting this > film to a screen printable material. Do you know? > > Bevan > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Ok, your best bet is the visio version if you want all the detail and > want > to manipulate everthing. The biggest benefit is that it's also the > smallest > file. There are some labels that I forgot > to add, like TRUTRAK ADI, and CAUTION. You probably wouldn't > want my original for yours anyway....make one with your own N-Number > label > on it and stuff. > > Just FYI: You don't really do this on your laser printer. You can print > it > there, but you really actually just email the file to the company, and > they > produce a photo positive printout from it. Then they use that to photo > expose the screen. > So it's reasonably easy to get one custom made for your own plane. > > > Small file size (Visio): > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/N104CD_breakers_fuses_switches.v > sd > > > Big Word Doc (5Mb): > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/N104CD_Panel_Silkscreen.doc > > Big .jpg (5Mb) > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/Silkscreen_Labels_13_17.jpg > > HUGE TIF: (31M) > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/N104CD_Silkscreen_13x17.tif > > Also, this file is getting aged now, so some breaker sizes aren't > accurate, > fuses might not be, and not all switches are where they were originally > laid > out. Things change. > > Tim > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 > Current section: Panel Wiring > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > B Tomm wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" >> --> >> >> I would like a copy. Your work looks awesome! I had no idea I could >> do this from a laser printer. >> >> Bevan >> RV7A fuse >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim >> Olson >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson >> >> >> My drawings were done using Visio. I just used Arial 10 and 12 PT I >> think for most things. I would be happy to share my original files >> with you if you'd like. I did them in visio, but the company that did >> my screens couldn't read a visio file, so I think I either sent them a >> word doc with the drawing in it, or I sent them a large .jpg. I have >> any of them available for your viewing if you wish. It might save you >> some time if you had visio so you didn't have to recreate. >> >> >> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> Mark R Steitle wrote: >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" >>> --> >>> >>> Tim, >>> Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think I'll give it a shot. I'll >>> try doing the artwork on TurboCad v10 that I just received yesterday. >>> I know it well enough to do simple artwork and lettering. What font >>> did you use? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Mark >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim >>> Olson >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >>> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson >>> >>> Mark, >>> Sorry, but I don't know of any do-it-yourself links. Come to think of >>> it, mine is the only one I know of that was home-done. >>> I learned from a master....Stein Bruch. It was easier than I >>> thought...if you just get the screens, and good thick ink, >>> it takes all of 10 seconds to learn how to do. Basically, >>> keep the screen down tight, squeegie on some ink (I dipped the squeege >>> into ink and then squeegied it across, and that worked good.)...use >>> firm presure and a good squeege made for the job, then yank off the >>> screen and if it looks good, hit it with a heat gun. Not much more to >>> it than that. >>> If a builder was REALLY prepared, you could have a large screen made >>> and do the whole panel at once, adding registration marks where screw >>> holes are and things. That way it would be a one-shot pass. But, in >>> the end, I think it's probably easier/better for a home builder to >>> just do it one word or small section at a time. >>> >>> Oh, and you can tape off the areas that you don't want to put down. >>> Then you can have different things on your screen close together but >>> still not screen them. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 >>> Current section: Panel Wiring >>> DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> > > -- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:29 AM PST US From: "Steven Anderson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer.... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steven Anderson" I have an engineering degree and am a PE. However my degree is in geophysical engineering, which is very rare. I generally deal with geologists but seldom geological or geophysical engineers. The difference is striking as engineers are taught to think in a disiplined way. For better or for worse. Touched upon in the discussion is sometimes undisiplined "off the wall" ideas have great value. Having received my engineers degree 30 years ago, most if not all I learned in college is obsolete. What I have observed is in today's high speed economy and knowledge based world it is the entreprenuer that wins the day. Engineers that are narrow minded, dogmatic, have no people skills are doomed to fail or at least never live up to their true capacity. On the other hand, observant ambitious driven talented people can contribute greatly to the cause. My cause is building a plane in my garage. Bob is a great source if information. Some of it very good, some of it not applicable to my project. I believe that we all must keep in mind that individuals get on the web and talk about a subject where their experience is based on building one plane. When I attended Alexander's building school in Griffin, I met Mike and jacob who had helped many individuals construct many planes. Mike told me with a great degree of experience to beware of opiniions based on a limited amount of experience. The bottom line is Bob's or GMC's info have some value. I disagree with GMC's way of displaying his opinion. I knew he was an engineer for his lack of people skills, an engineer's trademark. Good info displayed in a pompous arrogant way does not really help the cause (building homebuilt planes). Thankfully people like Dan C, Sam B, Dave D. Gary N etc are not only great sources but do it with the knowledge that their are people behind the technobox. That is why for the most part, this has been a great process. Thankfully we all have a delete key and I use it with inpunity. >From: "Eric M. Jones" >Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer.... Date: Thu, 5 Jan >2006 23:20:29 -0500 > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" > > >The difference between Surgeons and Butchers is that Butchers recently >discovered three new steaks: Shoulder (or Petite) Tender, Ranch Cut Steaks, >and Flat Iron Steaks. This is technology right up there with integrated >circuits as far as I'm concerned. > >My dad was a non-degreed engineer who was right up there with the best, but >was sensitive all his days regarding the lack of a formal education. I know >this caused him some pain when wet-behind-the-engineers kids were hired at >a salary above his...company policy you know. But the real brains were in >awe of his talents. As a result he had a part in many of the major >technological projects of his time. > >When I went to grade school I was taught to write with steel-tipped pens >dipped into inkwells. In college there were no pocket calculators, personal >computers were but a dream. The internet was decades from existing. The >methods of acquiring and using information changed radically. One could now >toss grenades in most town libraries with no fear of harming anyone. The >time of bricks and mortar education is nearing the end. > >If I were asked what a bright technically sophisticated young person should >study in school, I would have to side with Thom Friedman--study what good >teachers are teaching, what really engages other students--it doesn't >matter at all what the subject is. > >Certificates and diplomas are part of the "English Disease", that a >Gentleman should not work with his hands. Having initials after your name >certificated you to a life free of digging in the soil. This is a peculiar >Anglo-American notion not shared by the Germans and Russians and Chinese. > >Small story--I recently fought a LIDAR speeding ticket. In my letter to the >court, I added some random and mysterious initials after my name "SDQ3". I >did this because I was wondering if the initials would make the court think >I was someone special. If challenged I would say they were just meaningless >typos, and apologize. It is beyond the scope of this note to describe the >procedings, but I beat the ticket. (Details offlist if you are faced with a >similar situation). > >Regards, >Eric M. Jones >www.PerihelionDesign.com >113 Brentwood Drive >Southbridge MA 01550-2705 >(508) 764-2072 > >" I would have made a good Pope." > -- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994) > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:48 AM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" Points well made and taken... RE: "I will never land gear up because I have developed a fool proof check list backed up by a fool proof flow pattern from which I never deviate." As a CFII friend of mine used to say: "There are only two types of pilots flying retractable gear airplanes: those who have made a gear-up landing, and those who will". You are correct, humans do make mistakes. And while I am reasonably tolerant of the mistakes of others, I have no tolerance for the mistakes I myself make, and tend to beat myself to death looking for ways to avoid them. But back to my original "checklist" statement. If a pilot consistently forgets the item "Turn Off Master" on a checklist, one can only wonder what other items on what other checklists he/she is consistently missing. And if they don't consistently miss turning off the master, is it enough of a problem to make it worthwhile to employ Rube Goldberg-ian measures to remind them to do so? Might not a dead battery on a severe-clear day serve as a good, yet harmless, object lesson? And bet or no, I hope to enjoy a milkshake with you somewhere along the way... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning Bill, That is fine for those who always do everything correctly. There are others of us that have found by unfortunate experience that we do make mistakes. Among those mistakes are omissions of actions called out in the check list that we thought we had accomplished. It also includes having forgotten to use a checklist even though we tell ourselves to always use the checklist. I have a reasonable number of hours flying single pilot and a lot more experience flying as a required crew member on aircraft requiring a multiple pilot crew. It is my considered opinion that aviation safety is best advanced by establishing procedures that do NOT rely on we humans doing everything correctly. The desired level of safety comes from establishing procedures and developing equipment that helps us discover our errors before those errors result in an incident. I strongly feel that the best move anyone can make to increase the safety of an operation is to add a second responsible crew member. Unfortunately, single pilot operations are required for most of us. Checklists are great. Flow patterns are great. Habit patterns are important. However, humans do make mistakes. Regardless of how omnipotent most of feel we are, I have yet to see a pilot who does not make mistakes. That includes the one who says: "I will never land gear up because I have developed a fool proof check list backed up by a fool proof flow pattern from which I never deviate." Personally, I will bet a milkshake that many pilots who made an unintentional gear up landing would have told you before hand that it could not happen to him/her. The pilot most likely to have an incident is the one who says it can't happen to me! A little fear is a wonderful thing. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 1/6/2006 7:19:06 A.M. Central Standard Time, bdenton@bdenton.com writes: Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear removable scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are when printed. Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing the scotch tape on the panel. The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget a crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 years from now you can hit print and get another set. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" The website lists a product called "laser film". This is film that is directly printed on in a standard laser printer or copier. I have not contacted them yet so I don't know what the next step is in getting this film to a screen printable material. Do you know? Bevan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:58 AM PST US From: Lee Logan Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 53 Msgs - 01/05/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan RG9uJ3Qga25vdyB3aGF0IGhhcHBlbmVkIHdpdGggdGhlIG1lc3NhZ2UgSSBzZW50IGxhc3Qgbmln aHQsIGJ1dCBpdApkZWZpbml0ZWx5IGNhbWUgdGhyb3VnaCBnYXJibGVkISAgSGVyZSBpcyB3aGF0 IEkgbWVhbnQgdG8gc2F5OgoKCkl0J3MgbGF0ZSBhbmQgSSdtIGp1c3QgYSAibHVya2VyIiBoZXJl IHdpdGggbm8gcGFydGljdWxhciBhdmlvbmljcyBvcgplbGVjdHJpY2FsIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgdG8g b2ZmZXIsIHNvIHRoaXMgaXMganVzdCBteSB0d28gY2VudHMuICAgU28sIGZyb20Kc29tZW9uZSB3 aG8ga25vd3MgbW9yZSBhYm91dCAiZmx5aW5nIiBidXQgbGVzcyBhYm91dCAiYXZpYXRpb24iLCBJ J2QgbGlrZSB0bwpzdWdnZXN0IHRoYXQgbm8gbWF0dGVyIHdoYXQgeW91ciBhdmlvbmljcyBzZXR1 cCBpcywgeW91J2QgYmUgdmVyeSB3aXNlIHRvCmFsd2F5cyBoYXZlIGp1c3QgIm9uZSBtb3JlIHdh eSBvdXQiLiAgWW91IHByb2JhYmx5IGhhdmUgYSBmYW1pbHksIHJlbWVtYmVyLApzbyBpdCdzIG5v 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ayBhbGwgdGhpcyBzdHVmZiB0byBhIHNpbmdsZSBmYWlsdXJlIHBvaW50LCBkb24ndCBmYWlsIHRv CmxlYXJuIGF0IGxlYXN0IDE4MCBkZWdyZWUgaW5zdHJ1bWVudCBmbHlpbmcgKHRvIGZseSBiYWNr IG91dCBvZiB3aGF0IHlvdQpqdXN0IGZsZXcgaW50byksIGFuZCBhbHdheXMgY29uc2lkZXIgd2hh dCBQbGFuIEIgaXMgYmVmb3JlIHlvdSBmbHkgaW50byBhCihtZXRhcGhvcmljYWwpIGJveCBjYW55 b24tLS11bmxlc3MgeW91IGhhdmUgZW5vdWdoIG1vdG9yIHRvIGdldCBvdXQgb2YgaXQKc3RyYWln aHQgdXAuICAgV2UgaGFkIHRoYXQgdG9vIQoKCgpFbm91Z2ggb2YgdGhpcyByYW50Li4udGltZSB0 byBnbyBob21lLiAgIEtlZXAgeW91ciBtYWNoIHVwIGFuZCB5b3VyIHBvd2RlcgpkcnksIGd1eXMu Li5hbmQgIm9uZSBtb3JlIHdheSBvdXQiIGluIHlvdXIgaGlwIHBvY2tldC4uLgoKCgoKClNoaWxv aIUK ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:05 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley Morning, Frank... I like this idea...a lot. The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just moving the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface then printing. Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same sheet, and use them for alignment! The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after installed...but easy to do... I Like it! Harley Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. > >I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have >no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear removable >scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are >when printed. > >Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing the >scotch tape on the panel. > >The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? > >Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 > >I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full sheets >to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget a crucial >label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 years from >now you can hit print and get another set. > >Frank > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes I did this on my zodiac some 6.5 years ago and the labels still look great...This time I did a bit more with blue borders around every label (last time I did not use borders on all switches and simply cut a whole strip off the sheet and stuck it on the panel...Its oK but it could look better.) It takes a bit of work cutting around all the labels but it is really worth it. It really does look hot, blue bordered labels on a white panel...Evryone goes a little weak at the knees when they look at my panel...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley --> Morning, Frank... I like this idea...a lot. The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just moving the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface then printing. Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same sheet, and use them for alignment! The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after installed...but easy to do... I Like it! Harley Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >--> (Corvallis)" > >I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. > >I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have >no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear removable >scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are >when printed. > >Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing the >scotch tape on the panel. > >The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? > >Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 > >I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full >sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget a >crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 >years from now you can hit print and get another set. > >Frank > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:52 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley Do you have a picture, Frank? If it's a bit big, you can email it to me directly... harley@agelesswings.com Harley Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >Yes I did this on my zodiac some 6.5 years ago and the labels still look >great...This time I did a bit more with blue borders around every label >(last time I did not use borders on all switches and simply cut a whole >strip off the sheet and stuck it on the panel...Its oK but it could look >better.) It takes a bit of work cutting around all the labels but it is >really worth it. > >It really does look hot, blue bordered labels on a white panel...Evryone >goes a little weak at the knees when they look at my panel...:) > >Frank > >Do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Harley >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >--> > >Morning, Frank... > >I like this idea...a lot. > >The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen >here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have >reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, >I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing >directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just moving >the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface then >printing. > >Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the >layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same >sheet, and use them for alignment! > >The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the >alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. > >Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after >installed...but easy to do... > >I Like it! > >Harley > > >Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>--> (Corvallis)" >> >>I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >>experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >>label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >>printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. >> >>I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have >>no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear removable >> >> > > > >>scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >>individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are >>when printed. >> >>Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing the >> >> > > > >>scotch tape on the panel. >> >>The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >>spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? >> >>Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 >> >>I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full >>sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget a >> >> > > > >>crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 >>years from now you can hit print and get another set. >> >>Frank >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:24 AM PST US From: TimRhod@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com Were you able to use msword to do the boarders? Thanks Tim ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:00 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes you just draw a little box in MS word, and in any colour you want...Piece of cake. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TimRhod@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com Were you able to use msword to do the boarders? Thanks Tim ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Picture sent. If anyone else wants one please let me know. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley --> Do you have a picture, Frank? If it's a bit big, you can email it to me directly... harley@agelesswings.com Harley Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >--> (Corvallis)" > >Yes I did this on my zodiac some 6.5 years ago and the labels still >look great...This time I did a bit more with blue borders around every >label (last time I did not use borders on all switches and simply cut a >whole strip off the sheet and stuck it on the panel...Its oK but it >could look >better.) It takes a bit of work cutting around all the labels but it is >really worth it. > >It really does look hot, blue bordered labels on a white >panel...Evryone goes a little weak at the knees when they look at my >panel...:) > >Frank > >Do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Harley >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >--> > >Morning, Frank... > >I like this idea...a lot. > >The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen >here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have >reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, >I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing >directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just >moving the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface >then printing. > >Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the >layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same >sheet, and use them for alignment! > >The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the >alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. > >Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after >installed...but easy to do... > >I Like it! > >Harley > > >Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>--> (Corvallis)" >> >>I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >>experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >>label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >>printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. >> >>I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have >>no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear >>removable >> >> > > > >>scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >>individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are >>when printed. >> >>Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing >>the >> >> > > > >>scotch tape on the panel. >> >>The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >>spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? >> >>Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 >> >>I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full >>sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget >>a >> >> > > > >>crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 >>years from now you can hit print and get another set. >> >>Frank >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: "Beckman, Rick" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" Picture sent. If anyone else wants one please let me know. Frank I do, I do, please!! rick.beckman@atk.com Do NOT archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:37 AM PST US From: "Brinker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brinker" I would be interested too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beckman, Rick" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" > > > > Picture sent. > > If anyone else wants one please let me know. > > Frank > > I do, I do, please!! > > rick.beckman@atk.com > > Do NOT archive > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:13 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" Sorry, I forgot to post the link. It's http://www.westarsolutions.com/vend/westar/screens.html Go to film under the supplies heading Bevan RV7A -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" --> Bevan - What website are you referencing? John (do not archive) On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:08:22 -0800, B Tomm wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" > --> > > The website lists a product called "laser film". This is film that is > directly printed on in a standard laser printer or copier. I have not > contacted them yet so I don't know what the next step is in getting > this film to a screen printable material. Do you know? > > Bevan > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Ok, your best bet is the visio version if you want all the detail and > want to manipulate everthing. The biggest benefit is that it's also > the smallest file. There are some labels that I forgot > to add, like TRUTRAK ADI, and CAUTION. You probably wouldn't > want my original for yours anyway....make one with your own N-Number > label on it and stuff. > > Just FYI: You don't really do this on your laser printer. You can > print it there, but you really actually just email the file to the > company, and they produce a photo positive printout from it. Then > they use that to photo expose the screen. > So it's reasonably easy to get one custom made for your own plane. > > > Small file size (Visio): > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/N104CD_breakers_fuses_swit > ches.v > sd > > > Big Word Doc (5Mb): > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/N104CD_Panel_Silkscreen.do > c > > Big .jpg (5Mb) > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/Silkscreen_Labels_13_17.jp > g > > HUGE TIF: (31M) > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/circuits/N104CD_Silkscreen_13x17.ti > f > > Also, this file is getting aged now, so some breaker sizes aren't > accurate, fuses might not be, and not all switches are where they were > originally laid out. Things change. > > Tim > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 > Current section: Panel Wiring > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > B Tomm wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" >> --> >> >> I would like a copy. Your work looks awesome! I had no idea I could >> do this from a laser printer. >> >> Bevan >> RV7A fuse >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim >> Olson >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson >> >> >> My drawings were done using Visio. I just used Arial 10 and 12 PT I >> think for most things. I would be happy to share my original files >> with you if you'd like. I did them in visio, but the company that did >> my screens couldn't read a visio file, so I think I either sent them a >> word doc with the drawing in it, or I sent them a large .jpg. I have >> any of them available for your viewing if you wish. It might save you >> some time if you had visio so you didn't have to recreate. >> >> >> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> Mark R Steitle wrote: >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" >>> --> >>> >>> Tim, >>> Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think I'll give it a shot. I'll >>> try doing the artwork on TurboCad v10 that I just received yesterday. >>> I know it well enough to do simple artwork and lettering. What font >>> did you use? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Mark >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim >>> Olson >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >>> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson >>> >>> Mark, >>> Sorry, but I don't know of any do-it-yourself links. Come to think of >>> it, mine is the only one I know of that was home-done. >>> I learned from a master....Stein Bruch. It was easier than I >>> thought...if you just get the screens, and good thick ink, >>> it takes all of 10 seconds to learn how to do. Basically, >>> keep the screen down tight, squeegie on some ink (I dipped the squeege >>> into ink and then squeegied it across, and that worked good.)...use >>> firm presure and a good squeege made for the job, then yank off the >>> screen and if it looks good, hit it with a heat gun. Not much more to >>> it than that. >>> If a builder was REALLY prepared, you could have a large screen made >>> and do the whole panel at once, adding registration marks where screw >>> holes are and things. That way it would be a one-shot pass. But, in >>> the end, I think it's probably easier/better for a home builder to >>> just do it one word or small section at a time. >>> >>> Oh, and you can tape off the areas that you don't want to put down. >>> Then you can have different things on your screen close together but >>> still not screen them. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 >>> Current section: Panel Wiring >>> DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> > > -- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Frank - I would appreciate a picture: jschroeder@perigee.net Thanks, John Do not Archive On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:12:42 -0600, Beckman, Rick wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" > > > > Picture sent. > > If anyone else wants one please let me know. > > Frank > > I do, I do, please!! > rick.beckman@atk.com > > Do NOT archive > > -- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:52 AM PST US From: Steve Allison Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Steve Allison Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 11:40 PM 1/5/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > Opps! I thought you'd been following the threads on various and > sundry CAD and illustration programs here on the list. What > program had you intended to use? My library was generated in > AutoCAD . . . > > I believe someone on the List mentioned an > version older than 10.0 that still worked with my drawings . . . > perhaps he'll jump back in here and enlighten us. "Someone" would be me. I am using TurboCAD Deluxe V10.2 published by IMSI. http://www.imsisoft.com/index.asp IMSI publishes several CAD packages. TurboCAD Professional is the full 2D/3D package similar to AutoCAD, and sells for $700+. TurboCAD Deluxe is a trimmed down 2D/3D version and lists for $130 from IMSI, $100 from CompUSA for the latest version, V11. TurboCAD Designer is an even more trimmed down package ($30 from IMSI and CompUSA, reads AutoCAD files......may be perfectly fine for what we are doing, no experience with this one so I don't know.). There are also some Mac versions. Bob's drawings and wire books are done in AutoCAD and saved in the AutoCAD .dwg file format. The AutoCAD file format has become somewhat the standard for desktop CAD packages. There are several desktop CAD packages that can read (and sometimes write) AutoCAD files. Any package that can read AutoCAD files should work with Bob's drawings and wire books. I started my project using TurboCAD Deluxe V8, and have since upgraded to V10. Starting with the V8 package, I was able to read Bob's and all other AutoCAD files I found on builder websites. Bob found some older versions of TurboCAD (Deluxe, I assume) on Ebay for considerably less $$ than the latest release. Happy electrical designing. Steve RV-6A builder ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:18 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" Frank I also want it. Thanks Carlos Trigo trigo@mail.telepac.pt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Picture sent. > > If anyone else wants one please let me know. > > Frank > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Harley > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley > --> > > Do you have a picture, Frank? If it's a bit big, you can email it to me > directly... > > harley@agelesswings.com > > Harley ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology From: "Chuck Jensen" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" A handicap that degreed Engineers, who are without real world experience, struggle under is contamination by association. All of those years getting a degree were spent rubbing shoulders with teachers. And, as they say "those that can, do, those that can't, teach." This is not to denigrate either Engineers or teachers.....just a warning of a systemic problem that is best cured with real world experience, before or after the degree. Chuck Jensen Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sarg314 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sarg314 I have to chime in here and say that in my 20-odd years in the computer design business (I'm a software guy) the very best engineers I have ever worked with did not have degrees. They were self taught. They started tinkering when they were kids and when they got to college the engineering curriculum put them to sleep. They were already doing engineering for pay on the side so they just dropped out and got to work. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:13 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SNIMTA_SPAM Re --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" If you have an automobile-type ignition system in your aircraft, you can do something like what cars do when you turn the ignition switch to ON, but have not yet cranked the engine... you can buy a cheap voice recorder chip at Radio Shack and have it say "CLEAR!". That will get attention, too. Dave Morris At 09:15 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" > > >Steve - > >That's the way we did it. Works great. We did not wire up the buzzer, >however. > >John > >do not archive > > >On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:33:37 -0800, Steve Allison wrote: > > > If you have an oil pressure switch to activate a Hobbs (hour meter), > > check out this schematic from 'lectric Bob. > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Gaging/Oil_P_Warn.pdf > > When the engine runs, no warning light, and the Hobbs counts the hours. > > When the oil pressure drops to zero the oil pressure warning circuit is > > closed and the oil pressure light/buzzer come on........as long as the > > master switch is still on. Turn off the master, and the oil pressure > > light/buzzer goes out. You could label the light "Oil Pressure / Master > > ON". > > Steve > > >-- > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:44 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer.... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" DO NOT ARCHIVE A degree or certification or license gets you in the door, and may get you paid a higher salary. But it won't keep you there. And you're wrong about Germany. They have more initials after their names than you can imagine. And those who are able (and worthy) of being named things like Prof. Dr. Dr. Firstname Middlename Lastname-Hyphen-NobilityName Dipl. Ing. never touch dirt. :) Dave Morris At 10:20 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" > >The difference between Surgeons and Butchers is that Butchers recently >discovered three new steaks: Shoulder (or Petite) Tender, Ranch Cut >Steaks, and Flat Iron Steaks. This is technology right up there with >integrated circuits as far as I'm concerned. > >My dad was a non-degreed engineer who was right up there with the best, >but was sensitive all his days regarding the lack of a formal education. I >know this caused him some pain when wet-behind-the-engineers kids were >hired at a salary above his...company policy you know. But the real brains >were in awe of his talents. As a result he had a part in many of the major >technological projects of his time. > >When I went to grade school I was taught to write with steel-tipped pens >dipped into inkwells. In college there were no pocket calculators, >personal computers were but a dream. The internet was decades from >existing. The methods of acquiring and using information changed >radically. One could now toss grenades in most town libraries with no fear >of harming anyone. The time of bricks and mortar education is nearing the end. > >If I were asked what a bright technically sophisticated young person >should study in school, I would have to side with Thom Friedman--study >what good teachers are teaching, what really engages other students--it >doesn't matter at all what the subject is. > >Certificates and diplomas are part of the "English Disease", that a >Gentleman should not work with his hands. Having initials after your name >certificated you to a life free of digging in the soil. This is a peculiar >Anglo-American notion not shared by the Germans and Russians and Chinese. > >Small story--I recently fought a LIDAR speeding ticket. In my letter to >the court, I added some random and mysterious initials after my name >"SDQ3". I did this because I was wondering if the initials would make the >court think I was someone special. If challenged I would say they were >just meaningless typos, and apologize. It is beyond the scope of this note >to describe the procedings, but I beat the ticket. (Details offlist if you >are faced with a similar situation). > >Regards, >Eric M. Jones >www.PerihelionDesign.com >113 Brentwood Drive >Southbridge MA 01550-2705 >(508) 764-2072 > >" I would have made a good Pope." > -- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994) > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:34 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley Frank A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean about the borders... Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up for affect and color! I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment in my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of "cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines. I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel (which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up with this idea. Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder! Time to rethink! Harley Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot. > >Frank > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:47 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis OK. how about posting the photo (or a link to it) for the rest of us to Drool over! ;-) Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Harley wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley > >Frank > >A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean about >the borders... > >Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up for >affect and color! > >I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment in >my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing >something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of >"cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines. > >I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional >and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel >(which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up >with this idea. > >Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder! > >Time to rethink! > >Harley > > >Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > > >>Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot. >> >>Frank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:41 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com I hate to be the one missing out - send me one, too, please :-) -Bill B do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Harley Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley Frank A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean about the borders... Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up for affect and color! I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment in my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of "cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines. I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel (which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up with this idea. Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder! Time to rethink! Harley Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot. > >Frank > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:40 AM PST US From: TimRhod@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: TimRhod@aol.com Could I have a picture too Thanks? Tim ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" A link I don't (on my hard drive)...How do I post it to the group? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis --> OK. how about posting the photo (or a link to it) for the rest of us to Drool over! ;-) Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Harley wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >--> > >Frank > >A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean >about the borders... > >Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up >for affect and color! > >I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment >in my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing >something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of >"cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines. > >I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional >and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel >(which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up >with this idea. > >Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder! > >Time to rethink! > >Harley > > >Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > > >>Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot. >> >>Frank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:40 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 1/6/2006 I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010502310.html OC ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:36 AM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Allison" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Steve Allison > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >> >> >> At 11:40 PM 1/5/2006 -0600, you wrote: >> >> Opps! I thought you'd been following the threads on various and >> sundry CAD and illustration programs here on the list. What >> program had you intended to use? My library was generated in >> AutoCAD . . . >> >> I believe someone on the List mentioned an >> version older than 10.0 that still worked with my drawings . . . >> perhaps he'll jump back in here and enlighten us. > > "Someone" would be me. I am using TurboCAD Deluxe V10.2 published by > IMSI. > http://www.imsisoft.com/index.asp > > IMSI publishes several CAD packages. TurboCAD Professional is the full > 2D/3D package similar to AutoCAD, and sells for $700+. TurboCAD Deluxe > is a trimmed down 2D/3D version and lists for $130 from IMSI, $100 from > CompUSA for the latest version, V11. TurboCAD Designer is an even more > trimmed down package ($30 from IMSI and CompUSA, reads AutoCAD > files......may be perfectly fine for what we are doing, no experience > with this one so I don't know.). There are also some Mac versions. > > Bob's drawings and wire books are done in AutoCAD and saved in the > AutoCAD .dwg file format. The AutoCAD file format has become somewhat > the standard for desktop CAD packages. There are several desktop CAD > packages that can read (and sometimes write) AutoCAD files. Any package > that can read AutoCAD files should work with Bob's drawings and wire > books. > > I started my project using TurboCAD Deluxe V8, and have since upgraded > to V10. Starting with the V8 package, I was able to read Bob's and all > other AutoCAD files I found on builder websites. > > Bob found some older versions of TurboCAD (Deluxe, I assume) on Ebay > for considerably less $$ than the latest release. > > > Happy electrical designing. > > Steve > RV-6A builder Steve ... Thanks for explaining in depth, I will go with the Turbo CAD and several are on ebay. I wanted to make sure the program I purchase would acommodate Bob's Symbol Library. Regards ... Jerry Grimmonpre' DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis --> OK. how about posting the photo (or a link to it) for the rest of us to Drool over! ;-) Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Harley wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >--> > >Frank > >A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean >about the borders... > >Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up >for affect and color! > >I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment >in my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing >something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of >"cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines. > >I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional >and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel >(which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up >with this idea. > >Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder! > >Time to rethink! > >Harley > > >Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > > >>Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot. >> >>Frank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:25 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley attitude gyro Turn and Bank turn coordinator Turn Indicator I'm I the only one who gets a headache when reading these discussions? All the different instruments with ever so slightly different names that give ever so slightly different information. What I need is a cheat sheet that clearly and concisely explains which is which that I can keep in my wallet. Is there at least a website somewhere that I could bookmark to clear the fog? -- ,|"|"|, | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta | o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:52 AM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: what is an engineer.... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" DO NOT ARCHIVE >And you're wrong about Germany. They have more initials after their names >than you can imagine. And those who are able (and worthy) of being named >things like Prof. Dr. Dr. Firstname Middlename Lastname-Hyphen-NobilityName >Dipl. Ing. >never touch dirt. :) Dave Morris Dave, I don't mean to say that Germans don't have lots of letters after their name. But my experience is that they actually work for a living. Certain cultures have a love for technology and they honor and praise people who make things. The Japanese, Germans, Italians and others are thus. The French, Nigerians, British, Americans and Latins and others distain technologists. Someday look up the history of the cargo cults and how the native men would hold "meetings" and drink tea, while the crops rotted in the fields. It was clear to them that manual labor brought no wealth, and the British who held mettings and drank tea had all the riches. See attached. 515k file. http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/technoscan.bmp I also wanted to add a warning that my dad gave me that I should have followed. I went to work in a suit and tie and designed devices. When my bosses found out I could also make all the prototypes--opto-mechanical-electrical, my future prospects in management plummeted. I should have been smarter, but I guess I avoided those endless, pointless meetings anyway. Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 (508) 764-2072 Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say." (Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.) ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:29 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else related to the construction of their airplanes) I'd be pleased to add it to the /Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure to include a description of what we're looking at. I'll add descriptive text to the photo and post it with a descriptive file name. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:33 PM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here: www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it. Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the archives if he wants. Harley Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else >related to the construction of their airplanes) I'd be >pleased to add it to the /Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com > >You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure >to include a description of what we're looking at. I'll >add descriptive text to the photo and post it with a descriptive >file name. > >Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:45 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/2006 12:05:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, cjensen@dts9000.com writes: A handicap that degreed Engineers, who are without real world experience, struggle under is contamination by association. All of those years getting a degree were spent rubbing shoulders with teachers. And, as they say "those that can, do, those that can't, teach." And, If I may add to that pithy statement: "Those that can do neither, regulate." Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Done!....:) Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else related to the construction of their airplanes) I'd be pleased to add it to the /Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure to include a description of what we're looking at. I'll add descriptive text to the photo and post it with a descriptive file name. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:16 PM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley Oops... You'll have to cut and paste if your email program leaves the .jpg off the end as mine did... Or, here's a tinyurl version to link to it: http://tinyurl.com/awx72 That should get you there without any problems. Harley Harley wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley > >And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's >panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here: >www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG > >Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it. >Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the >archives if he wants. > >Harley > > >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >> >>If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else >>related to the construction of their airplanes) I'd be >>pleased to add it to the /Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com >> >>You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure >>to include a description of what we're looking at. I'll >>add descriptive text to the photo and post it with a descriptive >>file name. >> >>Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:27 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Oh gee hell no, go right ahead. Anything I can do to give back to the building community is very little compared to what I've gotten..:) Remember I still ahave about 15 clear sheets of label is iny one wants 'em for a buck a sheet. Cheers Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley --> And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here: www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it. Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the archives if he wants. Harley Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >--> > >If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else related to the >construction of their airplanes) I'd be pleased to add it to the >/Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com > >You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure to include a >description of what we're looking at. I'll add descriptive text to the >photo and post it with a descriptive file name. > >Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:01 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:43 PM 1/6/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > >Oh gee hell no, go right ahead. Anything I can do to give back to the >building community is very little compared to what I've gotten..:) > >Remember I still ahave about 15 clear sheets of label is iny one wants >'em for a buck a sheet. > >Cheers > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Harley >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >--> > >And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's >panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here: >www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG > >Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it. >Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the >archives if he wants. Give me the caption for it. How, why, who, where, when, etc. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:47 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" (snipped. But same topic) Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic (the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? My new Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised plastic piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave me the idea for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that plastic with an LED backlight. Pictures here. http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418 I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse" silkscreen on white or semi-see-thru plastic. Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion :) Alan ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:59 PM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel backlit --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Yes. Check out these switch panels I had made by a company that specializes in custom flight simulator cockpits: http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Center3.jpg http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Left.jpg It's engraved acrylic. Available from http://www.aircraftsimulators.com/f16.html at what I would guess is a lot cheaper than from Cessna. I'm going to be backlighting them with Luxeon 1W LEDs. Dave Morris At 03:34 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > > >(snipped. But same topic) > >Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic >(the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? My new >Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised plastic >piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave me the idea >for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that plastic with an >LED backlight. > >Pictures here. >http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418 > >I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse" silkscreen >on white or semi-see-thru plastic. > >Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion :) > >Alan > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:01 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 01/06/2006 3:43:58 PM Central Standard Time, aadamson@highrf.com writes: Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic (the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? >>> I can't say enough good things about Steve Davis (aka The PanelPilot) in Memphis who did my panel- absolutely no kickbacks! Here's a description of his process- click >>Next Entry>> on each page, and click on the fotoz for larger image. http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5100 Obviously I'm very happy with the results... Thanks, Steve! From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips - N51PW ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:45 PM PST US From: "Reginald E. DeLoach" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Reginald E. DeLoach" When I was a mechanic here at FedEx, I engraved data plates for equipment. I have a friend who was rebuilding a Cessna 140 and needed his panel reworked.. I took a piece of clear plexi and cut it to the shape of his panel. Each gauge was marked and I engraved the names/nomenclatures in REVERSE on the plexi. I then filled the letters with white tire lettering stick and turned the panel over. It was clear, see thru, and had all the engraving on the back side and highlighted in "never get dirty" white. The now top of the panel is smooth. It's lasted for years and the letters are still crisp, the paint is still white. They are "under" the glass! red :} "Alan K. Adamson" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > > (snipped. But same topic) > > Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic > (the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? My new > Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised plastic > piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave me the idea > for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that plastic with an > LED backlight. > > Pictures here. > http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418 > > I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse" silkscreen > on white or semi-see-thru plastic. > > Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion :) > > Alan > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:37 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel backlit --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" Dave, Thanks for the pictures... Good stuff... I sent you a private email as well. This is a place where I've found really good prices on bulk plastics. Specifically on this page, Acrylic...sheets, colored... http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplastic&catego ry%5Fname=21314&product%5Fid=9792 Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Morris "BigD" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel backlit --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" --> Yes. Check out these switch panels I had made by a company that specializes in custom flight simulator cockpits: http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Center3. jpg http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Left.jpg It's engraved acrylic. Available from http://www.aircraftsimulators.com/f16.html at what I would guess is a lot cheaper than from Cessna. I'm going to be backlighting them with Luxeon 1W LEDs. Dave Morris At 03:34 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > > >(snipped. But same topic) > >Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving >plastic (the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? >My new Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised >plastic piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave >me the idea for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that >plastic with an LED backlight. > >Pictures here. >http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418 > >I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse" >silkscreen on white or semi-see-thru plastic. > >Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion >:) > >Alan > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:36 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list last night. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Denton Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" --> This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply used pencils. Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Prather Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" --> Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe on would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down).. An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the airplane after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, maybe? Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could be illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very annoying to be around. Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" > > > Bob, > What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, > leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the > master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention > before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. > David > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bob noffs" > To: "aeroelectric list" > Subject: AeroElectric-List: > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >> >> >> Hi all, >> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. >> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . >> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. >> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance >> Bob Noffs ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:09 PM PST US From: "glaesers" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel backlit --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glaesers" I've played a bit with LEDs for backlighting. I think you'll find the Luxeon LEDs extreme overkill! Even superbright 5mm LEDs are much too bright. I found some small LEDs designed for backlighting from Mouser (PN 638-72SURCS530A2S2). Dennis Glaeser ------------------------------------------------------ --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Yes. Check out these switch panels I had made by a company that specializes in custom flight simulator cockpits: http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Center3. jpg http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Left.jpg It's engraved acrylic. Available from http://www.aircraftsimulators.com/f16.html at what I would guess is a lot cheaper than from Cessna. I'm going to be backlighting them with Luxeon 1W LEDs. Dave Morris ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:08 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Ernest Christley wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley > > attitude gyro > Turn and Bank > turn coordinator > Turn Indicator > > I'm I the only one who gets a headache when reading these discussions? All the different instruments with ever so slightly different names that give ever so slightly different information. What I need is a cheat sheet that clearly and concisely explains which is which that I can keep in my wallet. > > Is there at least a website somewhere that I could bookmark to clear the fog? Altimeter: ALT Displays altitude based on outside air pressure. Must be corrected for barometric pressure and temperature differences to indicate correctly. Vertical Speed Indicator: VSI Displays the rate of climb or descent based on the rate of change in air pressure. This instrument lags the actual rate of climb or descent. Air speed indicator: ASI This instrument displays the dynamic pressure on the airframe. What it displays is the "speed" at which the airframe "thinks" it is advancing through the air. Turn Coordinator: TC, turn-and-bank, turn-indicator This instrument usually has a small aircraft whose wingtip indicates a standard-rate turn. This instrument responds to both yaw (rate of turn) and rate of bank change. It therefore responds more quickly than a Turn-and-Slip Indicator but is "twitchier" in turbulence. These are usually found in newer spam cans. Turn-and-Slip Indicator: T&SI, needle-ball, turn-and-bank, turn-indicator This is the older rate-of-turn instrument with a vertical needle that indicates rate of turn. Two needle-widths has the pointer under one of the "doghouse" symbols and indicates a standard rate turn. Old timers and ex-military pilots tend to prefer this instrument to the TC even tho' both instruments perform the same function. Perhaps that is because this instrument is more stable in turbulence than a TC. Inclinometer: "ball" The inclinometer is found in both the TC and T&SI. Some attitude indicators also have an inclinometer, especially those intended to replace the TC/T&SI. The inclinometer is used to indicate whether or not a turn is coordinated (skid or slip). Attitude Indicator: AI, artificial horizon, gyro horizon, vertical gyro This instrument directly displays pitch and bank angle. Heading Indicator: HI, DG, directional gyro, gyro compass, horizontal gyro Provides stable heading information even in a turn. If not slaved (locked to a magnetic heading source), must be periodically reset as it drifts or "precesses". That is it for the "six pack". I tried to relate all the names by which the different instruments are known. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:25 PM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bret Smith" Thank you OC...I wish I could have met this man. Bret Smith Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 1/6/2006 I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010502 310.html OC ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:52 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Evening Brian, That is a very nice description of the various instruments commonly used for in flight reference except for one thing. You state: "Old timers and ex-military pilots tend to prefer this instrument to the TC even tho' both instruments perform the same function." While both instruments can be used to determine the rate of turn, they do not respond to the same aircraft movements. A classic Turn And Bank instrument responds only to the rate of turn. The TC or Turn Coordinator responds to either roll or rate of turn. The gyroscope of the T&B is situated "level" with the aircraft so that roll will not affect it's indication. The TC has it's gyroscope tipped up on the front or "canted". Because of that, if the aircraft is rolled, the TC indicator will show an indication. If the instrument is yawed, the instrument will show exactly the same indication as it will if the aircraft is rolled. If the aircraft is rolled at the same time it is yawed, the indications are additive. If the aircraft is simultaneously rolled one way and yawed the other, (an almost impossible thing to do in most airplanes!) it will show no movement at all. Because of the mixed signals derived from the TC. you can never tell for sure if it is showing yaw or roll. By careful observation of the results, it can be determined if it is roll or yaw causing the displacement, but you cannot tell which is happening by only looking at the TC. As you are aware, I have written many very long discourses on the relative merits of the TC as opposed to the T&B, but they do not show the same data and I much prefer the indications and honesty of the T&B over the questionable indications of the TC. The whole discussion is primarily academic as new solid state accelerometers should soon give us cheaper and more reliable instrumentation to replace them both. Nevertheless, I think it is important that anyone using either instrument understand the advantages and the disadvantages of the instrument they have chosen to use. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 Do Not Archive ('cause it's already there!) In a message dated 1/6/2006 7:52:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, brian-yak@lloyd.com writes: Turn Coordinator: TC, turn-and-bank, turn-indicator This instrument usually has a small aircraft whose wingtip indicates a standard-rate turn. This instrument responds to both yaw (rate of turn) and rate of bank change. It therefore responds more quickly than a Turn-and-Slip Indicator but is "twitchier" in turbulence. These are usually found in newer spam cans. Turn-and-Slip Indicator: T&SI, needle-ball, turn-and-bank, turn-indicator This is the older rate-of-turn instrument with a vertical needle that indicates rate of turn. Two needle-widths has the pointer under one of the "doghouse" symbols and indicates a standard rate turn. Old timers and ex-military pilots tend to prefer this instrument to the TC even tho' both instruments perform the same function. Perhaps that is because this instrument is more stable in turbulence than a TC. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" I'll second Mark's enthusiastic indorsement of Steve Davis' work. We had him cut out all of our panels from aluminum and then cut out overlays from a special overlay material that he ordered. He reverse engraved the lettering in the overlays for back lighting. I did not backlight any of the lettering. We chose panel flood lighting made from EL strips (from Steinair) hooked into a dimmer. We didn't have the room for LED's and backlighting with EL is not very far along in the experimental world. Can do it later if someone can provide an easy solution. I did the panel in AutoCAD and his computer setup can import that very easily. I'll second Mark's impression of Steve as a great host ( barbecue joint) and superb craftsman. I drove the 600 mile trip to Memphis twice to be there when the cutting was done. Great time. Check this album for pictures: http://w1.lancair.net/pix/jschroeder-panel John On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 17:52:13 EST, wrote: > I can't say enough good things about Steve Davis (aka The PanelPilot) in > Memphis who did my panel- absolutely no kickbacks! Snip > Obviously I'm very happy with the results... > Thanks, Steve! > From The PossumWorks in TN > Mark Phillips - N51PW -- ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:12 PM PST US From: "Mike Holland" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" I've alerted B&C about our exchange. The OV you purchased SHOULD have been fitted with all mods appropriate to the current configuration. They're looking into how you came to receive the one you had.While they are checking I have a second unit purchased about the same time attached to the SD8 alternator circuit. Haven't run it much, other than to determine it works. Is there a way to determine whether this one has the mod by looking at it? >I followed Z-13 & Z24 when wiring the disconnect relay and used 20g wire >for the field, is this adequate? Yes. I presume you have a single-point ground also. We'll need to get some high resolution (not necessarily "accurate" but resolution to 0.1v or better). See what V1 (bus) and V2 (regulator sense) voltages are. What kind of regulator are you using? Yes, single point ground with the engine tied to the ground via a web strap. Internally regulated, VANS 60 AMP automotive type alternator. Again, many thanks for checking and repairing my module. I'm feeling safer already! Mike... ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:11 PM PST US From: AI Nut Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SNIMTA_SPAM Re --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut Hehe! Now, *that's* clever, Dave! David M. Dave Morris "BigD" wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" > > >If you have an automobile-type ignition system in your aircraft, you can do >something like what cars do when you turn the ignition switch to ON, but >have not yet cranked the engine... you can buy a cheap voice recorder chip >at Radio Shack and have it say "CLEAR!". That will get attention, too. > >Dave Morris > >At 09:15 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote: > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" >> >> >>Steve - >> >>That's the way we did it. Works great. We did not wire up the buzzer, >>however. >> >>John >> >>do not archive >> >> >>On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:33:37 -0800, Steve Allison wrote: >> >> >> >>>If you have an oil pressure switch to activate a Hobbs (hour meter), >>>check out this schematic from 'lectric Bob. >>>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Gaging/Oil_P_Warn.pdf >>>When the engine runs, no warning light, and the Hobbs counts the hours. >>>When the oil pressure drops to zero the oil pressure warning circuit is >>>closed and the oil pressure light/buzzer come on........as long as the >>>master switch is still on. Turn off the master, and the oil pressure >>>light/buzzer goes out. You could label the light "Oil Pressure / Master >>>ON". >>>Steve >>> >>> >> >>-- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >