---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/07/06: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:24 AM - Re: what is an engineer (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 2. 04:23 AM - Re: Symbols library (Peter Laurence) 3. 04:57 AM - Re: Symbols library (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 05:32 AM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) (Kevin Horton) 5. 05:51 AM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 05:59 AM - Merging 6 wires into 1 (eddyfernan@aol.com) 7. 05:59 AM - Re: (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 06:29 AM - Re: Merging 6 wires into 1 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 06:46 AM - Re: Merging 6 wires into 1 (eddyfernan@aol.com) 11. 07:03 AM - Re: (Bob White) 12. 08:22 AM - Re: Symbols library (John Burnaby) 13. 08:47 AM - corvair list (_) 14. 08:52 AM - Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List (Mike Lehman) 15. 09:09 AM - Re: Symbols library (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 09:38 AM - Re: corvair list (Dave Morris \) 17. 09:47 AM - ExbusII for sale (Flyguy6a@aol.com) 18. 09:48 AM - Re: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, (Ken) 19. 09:56 AM - Re: ExbusII for sale (Harley) 20. 12:59 PM - Re: Symbols library (John Burnaby) 21. 02:30 PM - Re: corvair list (Craig Payne) 22. 02:31 PM - Re: (Craig Payne) 23. 02:35 PM - Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie (Adam Molny) 24. 02:37 PM - Re: ExbusII for sale (Craig Payne) 25. 06:00 PM - Re: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie (Ken) 26. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: Panel backlit (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 27. 06:15 PM - Re: Symbols library (Bob White) 28. 07:44 PM - Re: Symbols library (nuckollsr@cox.net) 29. 07:44 PM - Re: Symbols library (bob@bob-white.com) 30. 07:44 PM - Re: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie (klehman@albedo.net) 31. 07:44 PM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) (khorton01@rogers.com) 32. 07:44 PM - Re: Symbols library (jonlaury@impulse.net) 33. 07:44 PM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... (BobsV35B@aol.com) 34. 07:44 PM - Re: Symbols library (nuckollsr@cox.net) 35. 07:44 PM - Re: Symbols library (jonlaury@impulse.net) 36. 07:44 PM - Re: what is an engineer (KITFOXZ@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:44 AM PST US From: KITFOXZ@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/2006 8:58:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, smithhb@tds.net writes: I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person: I whole heartedly agree with you, O.C.! I have met some wonderful genius non degreed engineers in my lifetime (wish I could have met Orville and Wilbur!). It is too bad that many degreed engineers use that degree as a pedigree or as a license to be rude and unkind. In the military, a man can be commissioned to be an officer and a gentleman but, it is up to him to be that gentleman. John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:32 AM PST US From: "Peter Laurence" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" Bob, The link seems to be dead Peter How about http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/61015_Symbols_Library.z ip Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:22 AM 1/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" > > > >Bob, >The link seems to be dead That's the old "fat" file. Here's the trimmed file I posted later: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip Also, be aware that the website is getting some much needed attention for organization and from time to time, files may move to new folders. You can always go directly to the folder structures by using the site index at: http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html and explore the directories from there. In this case, you go to "Page per System Drawings" and then to "ACAD_Symbols_Library" that will take to the individual symbols and the .zip file of all symbols cited above. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:52 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 6 Jan 2006, at 21:16, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > If the aircraft is simultaneously rolled one way and yawed the > other, (an > almost impossible thing to do in most airplanes!) it will show no > movement at > all. Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:28 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Great Information Kevin, I had no knowledge of those forces. The only inverted spin I was ever in scared me so much that I have avoided such spins assiduously ever since. The more I learn about the TC, the better I like the T&B! Thanks for the input. I have some old thoughts on this subject that I posted on another list several years ago. Would you mind if I sent them to you for your comment? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 Do Not Archive In a message dated 1/7/2006 7:34:50 A.M. Central Standard Time, khorton01@rogers.com writes: Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:04 AM PST US From: eddyfernan@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Merging 6 wires into 1 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: eddyfernan@aol.com I am in the process of running all of my instrument lights into a dimmer. What is the common or best way to reduce about 6 or 8 wire into the one wire that will connect to the dimmer? A couple of butt connectors staggered down the bundle? RV-9a Finishing the last 3 or 4 thousand minor details! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:21 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:52 PM 1/6/2006 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > >The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: > >http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp > >Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list >last night. Thanks for the link! I've seen this floating around for a lot of years. The $10 millions seemed way out of whack. I also recalled being able to buy the "Space Pen" in office stores for fairly reasonable prices. Are they still out there? Don't recall seeing one recently. I've .pdf'ed the Snopes page for future reference. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > >I followed Z-13 & Z24 when wiring the disconnect relay and used 20g wire > >for the field, is this adequate? > > Yes. I presume you have a single-point ground also. We'll need > to get some high resolution (not necessarily "accurate" but > resolution to 0.1v or better). See what V1 (bus) and V2 (regulator > sense) voltages are. What kind of regulator are you using? > >Yes, single point ground with the engine tied to the ground via a web >strap. Internally regulated, VANS 60 AMP automotive type alternator. >Again, many thanks for checking and repairing my module. I'm feeling safer >already! We shall see. I'm 99.9% certain that the upgrade will fix your problem. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:12 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Merging 6 wires into 1 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:58 AM 1/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: eddyfernan@aol.com > >I am in the process of running all of my instrument lights into a >dimmer. What is the common or best way to reduce about 6 or 8 wire into >the one wire that will connect to the dimmer? A couple of butt connectors >staggered down the bundle? See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html It's never "incorrect" to simply solder the wires into a common joint and cover with heatshrink. Just joints tied into wire bundles are very long lived in light aircraft. But if you're looking for a craftsman of the year award, the judges will no doubt bring a lot of baggage from the TC and Mil-Spec worlds. The use of classier tools and materials will get you some points. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:33 AM PST US From: eddyfernan@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Merging 6 wires into 1 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: eddyfernan@aol.com The only craftmen in my shop are the wrenches in my tool box. Thank you sir! Eddy Fernandez Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Merging 6 wires into 1 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:58 AM 1/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: eddyfernan@aol.com > >I am in the process of running all of my instrument lights into a >dimmer. What is the common or best way to reduce about 6 or 8 wire into >the one wire that will connect to the dimmer? A couple of butt connectors >staggered down the bundle? See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html It's never "incorrect" to simply solder the wires into a common joint and cover with heatshrink. Just joints tied into wire bundles are very long lived in light aircraft. But if you're looking for a craftsman of the year award, the judges will no doubt bring a lot of baggage from the TC and Mil-Spec worlds. The use of classier tools and materials will get you some points. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:29 AM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 07:59:00 -0600 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 05:52 PM 1/6/2006 -0700, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > > > >The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: > > > >http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp > > > >Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list > >last night. > > Thanks for the link! I've seen this floating around > for a lot of years. The $10 millions seemed way out > of whack. I also recalled being able to buy the "Space > Pen" in office stores for fairly reasonable prices. Are > they still out there? Don't recall seeing one recently. > > I've .pdf'ed the Snopes page for future reference. > > Bob . . . > > > Hi Bob, The Space Pens are still available. I purchased one in a stationary store a couple of months ago when I lost the one I'd been using for 10 years. I forget what I paid but it was under $10 although they had some for more. Bob W. -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe today) Custom Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:29 AM PST US From: "John Burnaby" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Bob, Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no trouble opening .dwg's in the past. John do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:07 AM PST US From: "_" Subject: AeroElectric-List: corvair list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" Craig, Please post the location of the corvair list. Thanks, RayJ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: > > http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp > > Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list > last night. > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill > Denton > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" > --> > > This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story > wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow > astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply > used pencils. > > Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: > > 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. > > 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt > Prather > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" > --> > > Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. > > If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe > on > would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down).. > > An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little > combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the > master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open > while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but > not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the > airplane > after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on > > Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some > aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at > night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat > switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the > master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, > maybe? > Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? > > If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could > be > illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very annoying > to be around. > > > Regards, > > Matt- > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" >> >> >> Bob, >> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, >> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the >> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention >> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. >> David >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "bob noffs" >> To: "aeroelectric list" >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. >>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . >>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. >>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance >>> Bob Noffs > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:24 AM PST US From: "Mike Lehman" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Lehman" I am amazed at the number of mistakes I (we?) get-away-with, usually unknown to anyone but ourselves (but for the grace of ...). I could never forget the 'Master' because the machine had either: 1. big red panel light (homebuilt) or 2. a noisy electric gyro ("certified" aircraft) But, how did that dome/map/panel light (wired direct to battery) rocker switch unknowingly get bumped ON in bright daylight? Same effect as Master left ON: dead battery. Would adding item "Check Dome Light Switch OFF" to a shutdown checklist guarantee no repeat? Nope, because one day, some day, I might miss the checklist item. Mike --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com The pilot most likely to have an incident is the one who says it can't happen to me! A little fear is a wonderful thing. --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply used pencils. Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:52 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > >Bob, > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. I wonder if there are any compatibility problems for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered making my .zip files self-extracting but this makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably concerned about. Try going to this directory: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library 2DIODBLK.DWG is an old symbol originally saved under R14 AutoCAD which I just opened and re-saved under 2000. The thing jumped from 5K to 25K bytes (ugh!). The one just below . . . 30SPDTRY.DWG is still in AutoCAD R14. I'd appreciate it if you'd see how your TCv7.0 handles these two files. The Unzip corruption is another issue. I'll poke around on the 'net and see if we might have a compatibility problem between releases of PkZip. Thanks! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:25 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: corvair list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html Dave Morris www.N75UP.com At 10:46 AM 1/7/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" > >Craig, > >Please post the location of the corvair list. > >Thanks, >RayJ > >do not archive > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Craig Payne" >To: >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > > > > The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: > > > > http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp > > > > Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list > > last night. > > > > -- Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill > > Denton > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" > > --> > > > > This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story > > wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow > > astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply > > used pencils. > > > > Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: > > > > 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. > > > > 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt > > Prather > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" > > --> > > > > Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. > > > > If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe > > on > > would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down).. > > > > An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little > > combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the > > master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open > > while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but > > not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the > > airplane > > after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on > > > > Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some > > aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at > > night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat > > switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the > > master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, > > maybe? > > Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? > > > > If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could > > be > > illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very annoying > > to be around. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Matt- > > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" > >> > >> > >> Bob, > >> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, > >> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the > >> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention > >> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. > >> David > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "bob noffs" > >> To: "aeroelectric list" > >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: > >> > >> > >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is > >>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now > >>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. > >>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the > >>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am > >>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am > >>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . > >>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. > >>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning > >>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have > >>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic > >>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance > >>> Bob Noffs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:57 AM PST US From: Flyguy6a@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: ExbusII for sale --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Flyguy6a@aol.com Listers: Exbus II Load Center for sale on eBay. Van's price $424, "Buy it now" for $349. Brand spankin' new. Has Batt backup feature, rocker switches, tray mount. Item #4602928704 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=4602928704&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESC%3AIT&rd=1 Do not archive. and thanks for allowing blatant commercialism. Jack L. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:06 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken One solution for something like a dome light could be to wire an auto off feature. My newer multimeter does that. Some car dome lights do it. In fact years ago when I tired of replacing 9v. batteries, I added such a feature to an older multimeter using a mosfet transistor that runs until a gate capacitor bleeds down. For all intents and purposes, the standby current draw is zero after it times out. A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring. Ken Mike Lehman wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Lehman" > >I am amazed at the number of mistakes I (we?) get-away-with, usually unknown >to anyone but ourselves (but for the grace of ...). > >I could never forget the 'Master' because the machine had either: > 1. big red panel light (homebuilt) or > 2. a noisy electric gyro ("certified" aircraft) > >But, how did that dome/map/panel light (wired direct to battery) rocker >switch unknowingly get bumped ON in bright daylight? Same effect as Master >left ON: dead battery. Would adding item "Check Dome Light Switch OFF" to a >shutdown checklist guarantee no repeat? Nope, because one day, some day, I >might miss the checklist item. > >Mike > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:03 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ExbusII for sale --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley PLEASE people.. Convert long URLs using TinyURL.com It'll help everyone...even those of us who don't know how or want to take the time to cut and paste and edit to get one good address. This one below can be compressed to: http://tinyurl.com/c693l Harley Flyguy6a@aol.com wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Flyguy6a@aol.com > >Listers: > >Exbus II Load Center for sale on eBay. Van's price $424, "Buy it now" >for $349. Brand spankin' new. Has Batt backup feature, rocker switches, >tray mount. Item #4602928704 > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? >ViewItem&item=4602928704&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESC%3AIT&rd=1 > >Do not archive. and thanks for allowing blatant commercialism. > >Jack L. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:22 PM PST US From: "John Burnaby" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Re corrupted file: 2nd time was the charm. TurboCAD v 7.0 downloaded all the .dwg drawings just fine. Thanks Bob. John do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:56 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: corvair list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" You can subscribe at http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft and/or search the archives (good to do before posting a question that has been asked before). The archives are at http://mylist.net/archives/corvaircraft/. William Wynne actually is the Corvair-in aircraft expert, having invested 12 years of his life into this. His site is at www.flycorvair.com. To search William's site (not the e-mail list's archive): www.davemorris.com/SearchFlyCorvair.cfm -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of _ Subject: AeroElectric-List: corvair list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" Craig, Please post the location of the corvair list. Thanks, RayJ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: > > http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp > > Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list > last night. > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill > Denton > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" > --> > > This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story > wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow > astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply > used pencils. > > Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: > > 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. > > 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt > Prather > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" > --> > > Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. > > If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe > on > would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down).. > > An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little > combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the > master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open > while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but > not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the > airplane > after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on > > Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some > aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at > night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat > switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the > master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, > maybe? > Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? > > If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could > be > illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very annoying > to be around. > > > Regards, > > Matt- > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" >> >> >> Bob, >> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, >> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the >> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention >> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. >> David >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "bob noffs" >> To: "aeroelectric list" >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. >>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . >>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. >>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance >>> Bob Noffs > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:04 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Keep a link to the Snopes site. It is very useful in checking stories like this. And for a free site they are unbelievably thorough in their investigations and reports. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> At 05:52 PM 1/6/2006 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > >The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: > >http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp > >Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft >list last night. Thanks for the link! I've seen this floating around for a lot of years. The $10 millions seemed way out of whack. I also recalled being able to buy the "Space Pen" in office stores for fairly reasonable prices. Are they still out there? Don't recall seeing one recently. I've .pdf'ed the Snopes page for future reference. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:23 PM PST US From: Adam Molny Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Adam Molny I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric, FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight. If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure, and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus. If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of overloading bus B. Any thoughts? Adam Molny Legacy #151 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:22 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ExbusII for sale --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" As a side note Bob has a low opinion of this product: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html And http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flyguy6a@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: ExbusII for sale --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Flyguy6a@aol.com Listers: Exbus II Load Center for sale on eBay. Van's price $424, "Buy it now" for $349. Brand spankin' new. Has Batt backup feature, rocker switches, tray mount. Item #4602928704 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4602928704&rd1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESC%3AIT&rd=1 Do not archive. and thanks for allowing blatant commercialism. Jack L. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:18 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Hi Adam I figure the most likely reason to close the crossfeed is when one alternator simply stops producing power or has been shutdown by the OV protection. Bus voltage will be nominal battery voltage in such a case. With a contactor on the output of an IR regulator even the stator and diodes are out of the circuit when I shut down an alternator or the OVP activates but I'd expect the alternator fuse/breaker/ANL to already be open anyway in that case. I agree that it might be unwise to close the crossfeed if immediately after the low voltage warning you observe that the voltage is below normal battery voltage but then again you have the option if you need the equipment and think maybe you've got a open circuited or disconnected battery (or open master contactor) that has allowed a subsequent OV excursion and alternator shutdown. Plan A would be to leave it alone til on the ground if I don't need it. Any smoke or sparks would definately keep my finger away from the crossfeed. There really isn't much of a "bus" on a small airplane with fuse blocks which makes it very difficult to imagine a shorted bus. Z-14 also gives the option of conducting a single alternator recovery flight home or to a maintanance facility. Ken Adam Molny wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Adam Molny > >I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric, >FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to >go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the >ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a >single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a >failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight. > >If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would >it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure, >and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus. > >If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding >field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out >the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of >overloading bus B. > >Any thoughts? > >Adam Molny >Legacy #151 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:18 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel backlit --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 01/06/2006 7:18:14 PM Central Standard Time, glaesers@wideopenwest.com writes: Even superbright 5mm LEDs are much too bright. >>> My experience exactly- definately experiment with proposed configuration in all light conditions before commiting to design- See: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5105 I have recently added more resistance to the backlighting circuits to rein these muthus in- much better now! Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:33 PM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:09:22 -0600 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > > > >Bob, > > > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got > >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no > >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. > > Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. > I wonder if there are any compatibility problems > for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered > making my .zip files self-extracting but this > makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably > concerned about. > Besides us Linux guys don't appreciate .exe files at all. I checked a few of the DWG files from the first link you posted and they open with VariCAD after I changed all the extensions to lower case. Bob W. -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe today) Custom Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:22 AM 1/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" > > > >Bob, >The link seems to be dead That's the old "fat" file. Here's the trimmed file I posted later: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip Also, be aware that the website is getting some much needed attention for organization and from time to time, files may move to new folders. You can always go directly to the folder structures by using the site index at: http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html and explore the directories from there. In this case, you go to "Page per System Drawings" and then to "ACAD_Symbols_Library" that will take to the individual symbols and the .zip file of all symbols cited above. Bob . . . AdmID:7B1F6851AD6FE7BC9738B8065430EDA3 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:09:22 -0600 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > > > >Bob, > > > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got > >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no > >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. > > Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. > I wonder if there are any compatibility problems > for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered > making my .zip files self-extracting but this > makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably > concerned about. > Besides us Linux guys don't appreciate .exe files at all. I checked a few of the DWG files from the first link you posted and they open with VariCAD after I changed all the extensions to lower case. Bob W. -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe today) Custom Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ AdmID:241ED34D1FB0CA8F9D16676BABF6FEE2 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie From: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Hi Adam I figure the most likely reason to close the crossfeed is when one alternator simply stops producing power or has been shutdown by the OV protection. Bus voltage will be nominal battery voltage in such a case. With a contactor on the output of an IR regulator even the stator and diodes are out of the circuit when I shut down an alternator or the OVP activates but I'd expect the alternator fuse/breaker/ANL to already be open anyway in that case. I agree that it might be unwise to close the crossfeed if immediately after the low voltage warning you observe that the voltage is below normal battery voltage but then again you have the option if you need the equipment and think maybe you've got a open circuited or disconnected battery (or open master contactor) that has allowed a subsequent OV excursion and alternator shutdown. Plan A would be to leave it alone til on the ground if I don't need it. Any smoke or sparks would definately keep my finger away from the crossfeed. There really isn't much of a "bus" on a small airplane with fuse blocks which makes it very difficult to imagine a shorted bus. Z-14 also gives the option of conducting a single alternator recovery flight home or to a maintanance facility. Ken Adam Molny wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Adam Molny > >I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric, >FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to >go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the >ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a >single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a >failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight. > >If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would >it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure, >and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus. > >If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding >field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out >the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of >overloading bus B. > >Any thoughts? > >Adam Molny >Legacy #151 > > > > AdmID:83E83C29680237C6A7B9D0D346BF94A9 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) From: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 6 Jan 2006, at 21:16, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > If the aircraft is simultaneously rolled one way and yawed the > other, (an > almost impossible thing to do in most airplanes!) it will show no > movement at > all. Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 AdmID:4EAA2A64D1CEF1244C42A6DAB85C9D4E ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Bob, Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no trouble opening .dwg's in the past. John do not archive AdmID:FD42C0BCA64B7EC4AA28F6135809513B ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... From: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Great Information Kevin, I had no knowledge of those forces. The only inverted spin I was ever in scared me so much that I have avoided such spins assiduously ever since The more I learn about the TC, the better I like the T&B! Thanks for the input. I have some old thoughts on this subject that I posted on another list several years ago. Would you mind if I sent them to you for your comment? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 Do Not Archive In a message dated 1/7/2006 7:34:50 A.M. Central Standard Time, khorton01@rogers.com writes: Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. AdmID:30B43EDD8910B227A5E1A81066D50BC3 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > >Bob, > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. I wonder if there are any compatibility problems for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered making my .zip files self-extracting but this makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably concerned about. Try going to this directory: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library 2DIODBLK.DWG is an old symbol originally saved under R14 AutoCAD which I just opened and re-saved under 2000. The thing jumped from 5K to 25K bytes (ugh!). The one just below . . . 30SPDTRY.DWG is still in AutoCAD R14. I'd appreciate it if you'd see how your TCv7.0 handles these two files. The Unzip corruption is another issue. I'll poke around on the 'net and see if we might have a compatibility problem between releases of PkZip. Thanks! Bob . . . AdmID:B3CD43385CE7E94821AE8C1C26459278 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Re corrupted file: 2nd time was the charm. TurboCAD v 7.0 downloaded all the .dwg drawings just fine. Thanks Bob. John do not archive AdmID:F392AD4C042B392312BE9D5DE24E0F2A ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer From: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/2006 8:58:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, smithhb@tds.net writes: I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person: I whole heartedly agree with you, O.C.! I have met some wonderful genius non degreed engineers in my lifetime (wish I could have met Orville and Wilbur!). It is too bad that many degreed engineers use that degree as a pedigree or as a license to be rude and unkind. In the military, a man can be commissioned to be an officer and a gentleman but, it is up to him to be that gentleman. John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage) AdmID:DFDF3AF9BD24B683F389DDFD226E83EB