---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/08/06: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:43 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/07/06 (Dale Ensing) 2. 06:51 AM - master switch idiot light (bob noffs) 3. 07:20 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (William) 4. 07:54 AM - AW: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 5. 08:13 AM - Re: AW: Check lists, Was: Master switch (Dave Morris \) 6. 10:40 AM - Re: exp-bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 10:48 AM - Re: Master switch warning (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 11:05 AM - Diodes in the Altitude Encoder data lines . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 12:30 PM - Re: Battery maintainer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 12:54 PM - AW: Re: Master switch warning (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 11. 01:08 PM - Re: corvair list (_) 12. 01:09 PM - Re: corvair list (_) 13. 01:25 PM - Re: Symbols library (nuckollsr@cox.net) 14. 01:25 PM - Re: Symbols library (jonlaury@impulse.net) 15. 01:25 PM - Re: Symbols library (bob@bob-white.com) 16. 01:25 PM - Re: what is an engineer (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 17. 01:25 PM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... (BobsV35B@aol.com) 18. 01:25 PM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) (khorton01@rogers.com) 19. 01:25 PM - Re: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie (klehman@albedo.net) 20. 01:26 PM - Re: Symbols library (jonlaury@impulse.net) 21. 01:26 PM - Re: Symbols library (nuckollsr@cox.net) 22. 01:49 PM - Re: Battery maintainer (nuckollsr@cox.net) 23. 01:49 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (wschertz@ispwest.com) 24. 01:49 PM - Re: AW: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List (BigD@DaveMorris.com) 25. 02:07 PM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) (khorton01@rogers.com) 26. 02:07 PM - Re: Symbols library (bob@bob-white.com) 27. 02:08 PM - Re: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie (klehman@albedo.net) 28. 02:08 PM - Re: AW: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List (BigD@DaveMorris.com) 29. 02:08 PM - Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... (BobsV35B@aol.com) 30. 02:08 PM - Re: what is an engineer (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 31. 02:08 PM - Re: Battery maintainer (nuckollsr@cox.net) 32. 02:08 PM - Re: corvair list (raymondj@frontiernet.net) 33. 02:08 PM - Re: Symbols library (nuckollsr@cox.net) 34. 02:08 PM - Re: corvair list (raymondj@frontiernet.net) 35. 02:08 PM - Re: Symbols library (jonlaury@impulse.net) 36. 02:10 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (wschertz@ispwest.com) 37. 02:22 PM - Re: Symbols library (nuckollsr@cox.net) 38. 02:22 PM - Re: Symbols library (jonlaury@impulse.net) 39. 03:16 PM - OVM does double-duty (sportav8r@aol.com) 40. 04:57 PM - Re: Symbols library (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 41. 05:24 PM - Re: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 42. 06:41 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Labels (Bill Maxwell) 43. 07:01 PM - Kitplanes Marker Generator () 44. 07:13 PM - Re: Kitplanes Marker Generator (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:30 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/07/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" As a side note Bob has a low opinion of this product: Yes he does. But I have one in a 6A and it is doing very well. Have never had one problem with it. TT on unit/aircraft is 85 hours. Dale Ensing ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:24 AM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: AeroElectric-List: master switch idiot light --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" Thanks to many good replys about a master on warning light. I like the oil pressure and low voltage options. One or the other for sure. I have always been religious with a ckecklist , It is when you get out of the checklist routine you get nailed. Like getting back out of your car and going back in to a dark hangar to get the logbook or read the hobbs meter. And the price isnt always so benign as a dead battery on a sunny day. my punishment was a frozen, cracked battery which had leaked all its acid into the battery box and the overflow tubing carried it harmlessly to the hangar floor. Could have been major damage to the floor of a piper warrior.I will bet there are quite a few homebuilts that would not have survived that incident so well. anyway.... i will install a light and thanks to all who replied. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:38 AM PST US From: "William" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" I would like one Frank Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Picture sent. > > If anyone else wants one please let me know. > > Frank > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Harley > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley > --> > > Do you have a picture, Frank? If it's a bit big, you can email it to me > directly... > > harley@agelesswings.com > > Harley > > > Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>--> (Corvallis)" >> >>Yes I did this on my zodiac some 6.5 years ago and the labels still >>look great...This time I did a bit more with blue borders around every >>label (last time I did not use borders on all switches and simply cut a > >>whole strip off the sheet and stuck it on the panel...Its oK but it >>could look >>better.) It takes a bit of work cutting around all the labels but it is > >>really worth it. >> >>It really does look hot, blue bordered labels on a white >>panel...Evryone goes a little weak at the knees when they look at my >>panel...:) >> >>Frank >> >>Do not archive >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>Harley >>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >>--> >> >>Morning, Frank... >> >>I like this idea...a lot. >> >>The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen > >>here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have > >>reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, > >>I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing >>directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just >>moving the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface >>then printing. >> >>Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the >>layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same >>sheet, and use them for alignment! >> >>The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the >>alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. >> >>Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after >>installed...but easy to do... >> >>I Like it! >> >>Harley >> >> >>Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>>--> (Corvallis)" >>> >>>I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >>>experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >>>label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >>>printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. >>> >>>I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have > >>>no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear >>>removable >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >>>individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are > >>>when printed. >>> >>>Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing >>>the >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>scotch tape on the panel. >>> >>>The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >>>spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? >>> >>>Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 >>> >>>I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full >>>sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget >>>a >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 >>>years from now you can hit print and get another set. >>> >>>Frank >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:21 AM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a warning (buzzer) system? Alfred -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ken Gesendet: Samstag, 7. Januar 2006 18:50 An: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com.AeroElectric-List Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring. Ken ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:41 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" warning, AeroElectric-List@roxy.matronics.com Subject: Re: AW: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" warning, AeroElectric-List I'll bet you can find schematics for those in Popular Electronics going back to the mid 1930's. Dave Morris At 09:53 AM 1/8/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" > > >The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always >hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not >supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in >electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a >warning (buzzer) system? > >Alfred > > >-----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- >Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ken >Gesendet: Samstag, 7. Januar 2006 18:50 >An: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com.AeroElectric-List >Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, >AeroElectric-List > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few > >ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I >don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby > >current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring. > >Ken > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: exp-bus --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:42 AM 1/8/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" > > > As a side note Bob has a low opinion of this product: > >Yes he does. But I have one in a 6A and it is doing very well. Have never >had one problem with it. TT on unit/aircraft is 85 hours. >Dale Ensing This is a VERY short comment on a LONG story that does not explain . . . Folks interested in the REST OF THE STORY are invited to read: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html and http://aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html The EXP-Bus probably performs as advertised. My comments about this product have been to generate dialog about the following observations: Cost: The price of an EXP-Bus system will buy all of the fuse-blocks, switches and miscellaneous components needed to duplicate its functionality several times over. Architecture: If the EXP-Bus is EXACTLY what you want in the way of architecture . . . great. Any modifications wind up looking like . . . well, modifications. Cost of Ownership: The owner has lots of dollars tied up in the product before any time is invested to install it. Any component requiring replacement later must fit the EXP-Bus package . . . substitutions won't fit. The major attractions to products like these are: "Gee, look at that really slick panel already fabricated and ready to install" and "Wow! Look at all those electrowhizzies soldered to that etched circuit board. I could never do that myself." When a prospective buyer considers purchase, questions never asked and answered are: (1) "If I had my druthers, would I ever choose to DO it exactly that way?" and . . . (2)"Hmmm . . . that panel has a switch I won't use or Hmmmmm . . . . the panel doesn't have a switch I want. Are there ways to fabricate an equal to or better looking switch panel that exactly meet my needs?" (3)"Why would I ever choose to fabricate and populate an etched circuit board with all those goodies unless it (a) reduces wight, (b) reduces cost to fabricate, (c) reduces time to completion, (d) reduces cost to maintain, and/or (e) increases reliability. I invited the EXP-Bus designer to address (a) thru (e) but he declined. My "low opinion" of this product has nothing to do with advertised functionality or safety. It's about return on investment and narrowing one's options both for system design and future maintenance or planned modifications. The answer to (1) is, "Yes". there are many options for choices in system architecture, none of which are difficult to assemble from their rudimentary components. Further, perfectly adequate components are available that DO NOT REQUIRE or even suggest use of an etched circuit board which only drives up total labor (that's why it costs so much) and parts count. The answer to (2) has been discussed here on the List in some detail. I'll suggest, "Yes". There are many viable options for the builder to craft exactly the panel functionality and appearance he/she wants. To date, the answer to (3) is, "No good reasons". There are no value-added advantages for choosing EXP-Bus over piece-by-piece design and assembly except in those cases where the builder accepts the EXP-Bus limitations and is willing to pay a premium price to avoid construction of a switch panel with the necessary switches. The real and apparent complexity of the EXP-Bus as a turn-key product is a strong selling point but only when the customer is unaware of simple options that do just as much as the EXB-Bus -AND- with positive responses to points 1-5 above. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master switch warning --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:53 PM 1/8/2006 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" > > >The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always >hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not >supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in >electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a >warning (buzzer) system? I'm not understanding your question. If one wants a master switch warning, the goal is to sense when the main bus is hot and the alternator is not supporting the bus, i.e., engine is not running or alternator is OFF. Such a warning device would not require any power from an always-hot battery bus. The low voltage warning runs totally from the main bus and the oil-pressure switch driven warning/hobbs circuit suggested at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Gaging/Oil_P_Warn.pdf . . . gets Hobbs power from the battery bus and warning power from the e-bus. This arrangement provides Switch-left-on warning for BOTH the master and the e-bus alternate feed switches and takes no power from the battery bus when the airplane is parked. I'm not understanding where either active notification of low volts (which you need for other reasons) and/or oil pressure warning + buzzer (which are also used for other reasons) would not also serve, individually or collectively to let you know that you've walked away leaving the master switch on. Except that low-volts warning does not watch the e-bus alternate feed switch. However, the oil-p warning does. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Diodes in the Altitude Encoder data lines . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Comments/Questions: Hi Bob, > >I will be installing a digital chronometer with a built in altitude alert. >The manual calls for a 'T' connection to be fabricated to connect to the >existing altitude data lines between Encoder and Transponder. Is this a >simple process of connecting two wires per pin on the encoder DB-15 >connector? Excuse the simple question but I have found no reference >regarding the correct methods in fabricating a 'T' connection. Also, I >have seen your wiring for two systems to share one encoder, which shows >diodes in each line, the manual does not call for diodes to be installed, >is there any harm in omitting the diodes? Don't know. In the earliest days of multiple clients sharing the output from a single encoder, diodes had to be added in series with each of the client's data signal lines to prevent a powered-down client from loading the data bus an killing data to all clients. Over the years, many folks have either added the diodes internal to their product or designed the outside world interface so that the powered down client cannot load the altitude data bus. You would have to ask the folks who supplied your accessories as to whether the product includes bus isolation features friendly to other devices sharing the bus. If the answer is "yes" then your supposition is adequate and correct but I don't think I'd try to put double wires into the connector. Taps into the wire covered with heat shrink for finish would be my choice for installation. If you need diodes for either client, then an etched circuit board assembly with diodes and d-sub connectors would be a cleaner approach. You might ask a local avionics shop what they use for isolation diode installation techniques. There may be some whippy adapters that I'm not aware of. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:09 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery maintainer --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:12 AM 12/24/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" > > >Hi Bob and aeroelectric people, a question! What was the final opinion of >the group on which battery maintainer seem to work the best on the lead >sponge batteries. thanks much and BTW Merry Xmas to all, Bob I don't think there was ever a consensus for a "golden" battery maintainer. I've tested several Battery Tender and Schumacher (Wall Mart and others) products and found that they meet their advertising sales literature and do indeed offer battery charging and maintaining functions superior to similar products offered a few years ago. I have some samples from Soneil which I tested several months ago. I couldn't get them to do the advertised "desulfating pulse-charge". I've had some limited conversation with them since and had planned to visit their facility as a side trip on our visit to Canada for a weekend seminar late last year. The visit didn't work out and further examination of Soneil's products are on the back burner for the moment. In the mean time, go to Wall Mart or perhaps Ebay (Item number: 4601687546) and get a perfectly adequate charger/maintainer for little more than pocket change. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:47 PM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master switch warning --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Bob, The warning for main and e-bus is installed as you suggest. However there is also the always hot battery bus, which feeds the clock in the MicoMonitor (some few milliamps) and the cabin lights (condiserably more power). If these lights are left on - it shouldn't happen, but it will some day - then the battery will be emptied. Thus the idea of a buzzer that alerts me if the battery bus distributes more than some few milliamps. Is this a better explanation of the (not so important) problem? Thanks, Alfred -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Robert L. Nuckolls, III Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Januar 2006 19:47 An: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Betreff: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master switch warning --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> At 04:53 PM 1/8/2006 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" > > >The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the >always hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is >not supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in >electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such >a warning (buzzer) system? I'm not understanding your question. If one wants a master switch warning, the goal is to sense when the main bus is hot and the alternator is not supporting the bus, i.e., engine is not running or alternator is OFF. Such a warning device would not require any power from an always-hot battery bus. The low voltage warning runs totally from the main bus and the oil-pressure switch driven warning/hobbs circuit suggested at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Gaging/Oil_P_Warn.pdf . . . gets Hobbs power from the battery bus and warning power from the e-bus. This arrangement provides Switch-left-on warning for BOTH the master and the e-bus alternate feed switches and takes no power from the battery bus when the airplane is parked. I'm not understanding where either active notification of low volts (which you need for other reasons) and/or oil pressure warning + buzzer (which are also used for other reasons) would not also serve, individually or collectively to let you know that you've walked away leaving the master switch on. Except that low-volts warning does not watch the e-bus alternate feed switch. However, the oil-p warning does. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:22 PM PST US From: "_" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: corvair list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" Thanks RayJ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Morris "BigD"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: corvair list > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" > > > http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html > > Dave Morris > www.N75UP.com > > > At 10:46 AM 1/7/2006, you wrote: >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" >> >>Craig, >> >>Please post the location of the corvair list. >> >>Thanks, >>RayJ >> >>do not archive >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Craig Payne" >>To: >>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" >> > >> > >> > The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: >> > >> > http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp >> > >> > Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft >> > list >> > last night. >> > >> > -- Craig >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill >> > Denton >> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: >> > >> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" >> > --> >> > >> > This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story >> > wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow >> > astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts >> > simply >> > used pencils. >> > >> > Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: >> > >> > 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. >> > >> > 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt >> > Prather >> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: >> > >> > >> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" >> > --> >> > >> > Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. >> > >> > If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the >> > strobe >> > on >> > would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery >> > down).. >> > >> > An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a >> > little >> > combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the >> > master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door >> > open >> > while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, >> > but >> > not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the >> > airplane >> > after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on >> > >> > Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some >> > aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at >> > night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a >> > defeat >> > switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave >> > the >> > master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, >> > maybe? >> > Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? >> > >> > If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these >> > could >> > be >> > illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very >> > annoying >> > to be around. >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Matt- >> > >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" >> >> >> >> >> >> Bob, >> >> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, >> >> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the >> >> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention >> >> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. >> >> David >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "bob noffs" >> >> To: "aeroelectric list" >> >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >> >> >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >> >>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >> >>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a >> >>> while. >> >>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >> >>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >> >>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >> >>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . >> >>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. >> >>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >> >>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >> >>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >> >>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in >> >>> advance >> >>> Bob Noffs >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:30 PM PST US From: "_" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: corvair list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" Thanks, RayJ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: corvair list > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > You can subscribe at http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft and/or search > the archives (good to do before posting a question that has been asked > before). The archives are at http://mylist.net/archives/corvaircraft/. > > William Wynne actually is the Corvair-in aircraft expert, having invested > 12 > years of his life into this. His site is at www.flycorvair.com. To search > William's site (not the e-mail list's archive): > www.davemorris.com/SearchFlyCorvair.cfm > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of _ > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: corvair list > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" > > Craig, > > Please post the location of the corvair list. > > Thanks, > RayJ > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Payne" > To: > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" >> >> >> The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: >> >> http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp >> >> Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft >> list >> last night. >> >> -- Craig >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill >> Denton >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" >> --> >> >> This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story >> wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow >> astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts >> simply >> used pencils. >> >> Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: >> >> 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. >> >> 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt >> Prather >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" >> --> >> >> Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. >> >> If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe >> on >> would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down).. >> >> An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a >> little >> combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the >> master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door >> open >> while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, >> but >> not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the >> airplane >> after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on >> >> Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some >> aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at >> night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat >> switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave >> the >> master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, >> maybe? >> Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? >> >> If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could >> be >> illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very >> annoying >> to be around. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Matt- >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" >>> >>> >>> Bob, >>> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, >>> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the >>> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention >>> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. >>> David >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "bob noffs" >>> To: "aeroelectric list" >>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: >>> >>> >>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >>>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >>>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. >>>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >>>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >>>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >>>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . >>>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. >>>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >>>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >>>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >>>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance >>>> Bob Noffs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > >Bob, > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. I wonder if there are any compatibility problems for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered making my .zip files self-extracting but this makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably concerned about. Try going to this directory: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library 2DIODBLK.DWG is an old symbol originally saved under R14 AutoCAD which I just opened and re-saved under 2000. The thing jumped from 5K to 25K bytes (ugh!). The one just below . . . 30SPDTRY.DWG is still in AutoCAD R14. I'd appreciate it if you'd see how your TCv7.0 handles these two files. The Unzip corruption is another issue. I'll poke around on the 'net and see if we might have a compatibility problem between releases of PkZip. Thanks! Bob . . . AdmID:B3CD43385CE7E94821AE8C1C26459278 AdmID:1A3589EED759AA99A834C4BDC20A273E ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Bob, Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no trouble opening .dwg's in the past. John do not archive AdmID:FD42C0BCA64B7EC4AA28F6135809513B AdmID:CBB9A5C59A6549EA2A53FA3AE26ACBD5 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:09:22 -0600 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > > > >Bob, > > > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got > >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no > >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. > > Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. > I wonder if there are any compatibility problems > for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered > making my .zip files self-extracting but this > makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably > concerned about. > Besides us Linux guys don't appreciate .exe files at all. I checked a few of the DWG files from the first link you posted and they open with VariCAD after I changed all the extensions to lower case. Bob W. -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe today) Custom Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ AdmID:241ED34D1FB0CA8F9D16676BABF6FEE2 AdmID:78DCC4EB29857DE27FFD0804F9633FE0 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer From: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/2006 8:58:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, smithhb@tds.net writes: I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person: I whole heartedly agree with you, O.C.! I have met some wonderful genius non degreed engineers in my lifetime (wish I could have met Orville and Wilbur!). It is too bad that many degreed engineers use that degree as a pedigree or as a license to be rude and unkind. In the military, a man can be commissioned to be an officer and a gentleman but, it is up to him to be that gentleman. John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage) AdmID:DFDF3AF9BD24B683F389DDFD226E83EB AdmID:76A6A4EF42C65481E4EB4D0AB16DF0D3 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... From: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Great Information Kevin, I had no knowledge of those forces. The only inverted spin I was ever in scared me so much that I have avoided such spins assiduously ever since The more I learn about the TC, the better I like the T&B! Thanks for the input. I have some old thoughts on this subject that I posted on another list several years ago. Would you mind if I sent them to you for your comment? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 Do Not Archive In a message dated 1/7/2006 7:34:50 A.M. Central Standard Time, khorton01@rogers.com writes: Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. AdmID:30B43EDD8910B227A5E1A81066D50BC3 AdmID:C54FF9E1511873D4B582657F68925039 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) From: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 6 Jan 2006, at 21:16, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > If the aircraft is simultaneously rolled one way and yawed the > other, (an > almost impossible thing to do in most airplanes!) it will show no > movement at > all. Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 AdmID:4EAA2A64D1CEF1244C42A6DAB85C9D4E AdmID:2C4F362CCC0E67F98E76589389296E1B ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie From: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Hi Adam I figure the most likely reason to close the crossfeed is when one alternator simply stops producing power or has been shutdown by the OV protection. Bus voltage will be nominal battery voltage in such a case. With a contactor on the output of an IR regulator even the stator and diodes are out of the circuit when I shut down an alternator or the OVP activates but I'd expect the alternator fuse/breaker/ANL to already be open anyway in that case. I agree that it might be unwise to close the crossfeed if immediately after the low voltage warning you observe that the voltage is below normal battery voltage but then again you have the option if you need the equipment and think maybe you've got a open circuited or disconnected battery (or open master contactor) that has allowed a subsequent OV excursion and alternator shutdown. Plan A would be to leave it alone til on the ground if I don't need it. Any smoke or sparks would definately keep my finger away from the crossfeed. There really isn't much of a "bus" on a small airplane with fuse blocks which makes it very difficult to imagine a shorted bus. Z-14 also gives the option of conducting a single alternator recovery flight home or to a maintanance facility. Ken Adam Molny wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Adam Molny > >I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric, >FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to >go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the >ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a >single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a >failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight. > >If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would >it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure, >and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus. > >If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding >field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out >the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of >overloading bus B. > >Any thoughts? > >Adam Molny >Legacy #151 > > AdmID:83E83C29680237C6A7B9D0D346BF94A9 AdmID:699E6044ECE49308DB21D9330AB77D81 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Re corrupted file: 2nd time was the charm. TurboCAD v 7.0 downloaded all the .dwg drawings just fine. Thanks Bob. John do not archive AdmID:F392AD4C042B392312BE9D5DE24E0F2A AdmID:EA5F3BBF041D65D2B1E57CF604B906B5 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:31 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:22 AM 1/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" > > > >Bob, >The link seems to be dead That's the old "fat" file. Here's the trimmed file I posted later: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip Also, be aware that the website is getting some much needed attention for organization and from time to time, files may move to new folders. You can always go directly to the folder structures by using the site index at: http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html and explore the directories from there. In this case, you go to "Page per System Drawings" and then to "ACAD_Symbols_Library" that will take to the individual symbols and the .zip file of all symbols cited above. Bob . . . AdmID:7B1F6851AD6FE7BC9738B8065430EDA3 AdmID:6CF00A62A9D75FF8972D281B1B2BD938 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery maintainer From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:12 AM 12/24/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" > > >Hi Bob and aeroelectric people, a question! What was the final opinion of >the group on which battery maintainer seem to work the best on the lead >sponge batteries. thanks much and BTW Merry Xmas to all, Bob I don't think there was ever a consensus for a "golden" battery maintainer. I've tested several Battery Tender and Schumacher (Wall Mart and others) products and found that they meet their advertising sales literature and do indeed offer battery charging and maintaining functions superior to similar products offered a few years ago. I have some samples from Soneil which I tested several months ago. I couldn't get them to do the advertised "desulfating pulse-charge". I've had some limited conversation with them since and had planned to visit their facility as a side trip on our visit to Canada for a weekend seminar late last year. The visit didn't work out and further examination of Soneil's products are on the back burner for the moment. In the mean time, go to Wall Mart or perhaps Ebay (Item number: 4601687546) and get a perfectly adequate charger/maintainer for little more than pocket change. Bob . . . AdmID:F6486214BBE1970F8D80025B40FAD839 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: wschertz@ispwest.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: wschertz@ispwest.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" I would like one Frank Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Picture sent. > > If anyone else wants one please let me know. > > Frank > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Harley > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley > --> > > Do you have a picture, Frank? If it's a bit big, you can email it to me > directly... > > harley@agelesswings.com > > Harley > > > Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>--> (Corvallis)" >> >>Yes I did this on my zodiac some 6.5 years ago and the labels still >>look great...This time I did a bit more with blue borders around every >>label (last time I did not use borders on all switches and simply cut a > >>whole strip off the sheet and stuck it on the panel...Its oK but it >>could look >>better.) It takes a bit of work cutting around all the labels but it is > >>really worth it. >> >>It really does look hot, blue bordered labels on a white >>panel...Evryone goes a little weak at the knees when they look at my >>panel...:) >> >>Frank >> >>Do not archive >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>Harley >>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >>--> >> >>Morning, Frank... >> >>I like this idea...a lot. >> >>The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen > >>here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have > >>reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, > >>I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing >>directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just >>moving the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface >>then printing. >> >>Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the >>layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same >>sheet, and use them for alignment! >> >>The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the >>alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. >> >>Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after >>installed...but easy to do... >> >>I Like it! >> >>Harley >> >> >>Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>>--> (Corvallis)" >>> >>>I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >>>experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >>>label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >>>printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. >>> >>>I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have > >>>no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear >>>removable >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >>>individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are > >>>when printed. >>> >>>Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing >>>the >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>scotch tape on the panel. >>> >>>The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >>>spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? >>> >>>Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 >>> >>>I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full >>>sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget >>>a >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 >>>years from now you can hit print and get another set. >>> >>>Frank >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > AdmID:E2FFB4FC8186C8FE2817C096F8B7375B ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: AW: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List From: BigD@DaveMorris.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BigD@DaveMorris.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" warning, AeroElectric-List I'll bet you can find schematics for those in Popular Electronics going back to the mid 1930's. Dave Morris At 09:53 AM 1/8/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" > > >The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always >hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not >supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in >electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a >warning (buzzer) system? > >Alfred > > >-----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- >Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ken >Gesendet: Samstag, 7. Januar 2006 18:50 >An: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com.AeroElectric-List >Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, >AeroElectric-List > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few > >ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I >don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby > >current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring > >Ken > > AdmID:2C0948FF9BDF762C85D9EF7BC638707F ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) From: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: khorton01@rogers.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 6 Jan 2006, at 21:16, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > If the aircraft is simultaneously rolled one way and yawed the > other, (an > almost impossible thing to do in most airplanes!) it will show no > movement at > all. Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 AdmID:4EAA2A64D1CEF1244C42A6DAB85C9D4E AdmID:2C4F362CCC0E67F98E76589389296E1B AdmID:4CC815E036537AA6E9368A7B0CF7B39D ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bob@bob-white.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:09:22 -0600 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > > > >Bob, > > > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got > >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no > >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. > > Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. > I wonder if there are any compatibility problems > for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered > making my .zip files self-extracting but this > makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably > concerned about. > Besides us Linux guys don't appreciate .exe files at all. I checked a few of the DWG files from the first link you posted and they open with VariCAD after I changed all the extensions to lower case. Bob W. -- http://www.bob-white.com N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe today) Custom Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ AdmID:241ED34D1FB0CA8F9D16676BABF6FEE2 AdmID:78DCC4EB29857DE27FFD0804F9633FE0 AdmID:816CDEAEBA38B004B57227131F2FEAB5 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie From: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Hi Adam I figure the most likely reason to close the crossfeed is when one alternator simply stops producing power or has been shutdown by the OV protection. Bus voltage will be nominal battery voltage in such a case. With a contactor on the output of an IR regulator even the stator and diodes are out of the circuit when I shut down an alternator or the OVP activates but I'd expect the alternator fuse/breaker/ANL to already be open anyway in that case. I agree that it might be unwise to close the crossfeed if immediately after the low voltage warning you observe that the voltage is below normal battery voltage but then again you have the option if you need the equipment and think maybe you've got a open circuited or disconnected battery (or open master contactor) that has allowed a subsequent OV excursion and alternator shutdown. Plan A would be to leave it alone til on the ground if I don't need it. Any smoke or sparks would definately keep my finger away from the crossfeed. There really isn't much of a "bus" on a small airplane with fuse blocks which makes it very difficult to imagine a shorted bus. Z-14 also gives the option of conducting a single alternator recovery flight home or to a maintanance facility. Ken Adam Molny wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Adam Molny > >I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric, >FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to >go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the >ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a >single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a >failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight. > >If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would >it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure, >and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus. > >If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding >field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out >the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of >overloading bus B. > >Any thoughts? > >Adam Molny >Legacy #151 > > AdmID:83E83C29680237C6A7B9D0D346BF94A9 AdmID:699E6044ECE49308DB21D9330AB77D81 AdmID:F24EE12554874507101161E0190BA573 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: AW: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List From: BigD@DaveMorris.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BigD@DaveMorris.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BigD@DaveMorris.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" warning, AeroElectric-List I'll bet you can find schematics for those in Popular Electronics going back to the mid 1930's. Dave Morris At 09:53 AM 1/8/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" > > >The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always >hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not >supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in >electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a >warning (buzzer) system? > >Alfred > > >-----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- >Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ken >Gesendet: Samstag, 7. Januar 2006 18:50 >An: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com.AeroElectric-List >Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, >AeroElectric-List > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few > >ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I >don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby > >current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring > >Ken > > AdmID:2C0948FF9BDF762C85D9EF7BC638707F AdmID:C82621AED3CEF810FEFA027F0C8D49B5 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup... From: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Great Information Kevin, I had no knowledge of those forces. The only inverted spin I was ever in scared me so much that I have avoided such spins assiduously ever since The more I learn about the TC, the better I like the T&B! Thanks for the input. I have some old thoughts on this subject that I posted on another list several years ago. Would you mind if I sent them to you for your comment? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 Do Not Archive In a message dated 1/7/2006 7:34:50 A.M. Central Standard Time, khorton01@rogers.com writes: Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre. The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to which rudder you need to push. AdmID:30B43EDD8910B227A5E1A81066D50BC3 AdmID:C54FF9E1511873D4B582657F68925039 AdmID:CDC65746661A0E0375DD99CE220BA111 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer From: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/2006 8:58:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, smithhb@tds.net writes: I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person: I whole heartedly agree with you, O.C.! I have met some wonderful genius non degreed engineers in my lifetime (wish I could have met Orville and Wilbur!). It is too bad that many degreed engineers use that degree as a pedigree or as a license to be rude and unkind. In the military, a man can be commissioned to be an officer and a gentleman but, it is up to him to be that gentleman. John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage) AdmID:DFDF3AF9BD24B683F389DDFD226E83EB AdmID:76A6A4EF42C65481E4EB4D0AB16DF0D3 AdmID:C4619794BC4F7462AB76278C95E66735 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery maintainer From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:12 AM 12/24/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" > > >Hi Bob and aeroelectric people, a question! What was the final opinion of >the group on which battery maintainer seem to work the best on the lead >sponge batteries. thanks much and BTW Merry Xmas to all, Bob I don't think there was ever a consensus for a "golden" battery maintainer. I've tested several Battery Tender and Schumacher (Wall Mart and others) products and found that they meet their advertising sales literature and do indeed offer battery charging and maintaining functions superior to similar products offered a few years ago. I have some samples from Soneil which I tested several months ago. I couldn't get them to do the advertised "desulfating pulse-charge". I've had some limited conversation with them since and had planned to visit their facility as a side trip on our visit to Canada for a weekend seminar late last year. The visit didn't work out and further examination of Soneil's products are on the back burner for the moment. In the mean time, go to Wall Mart or perhaps Ebay (Item number: 4601687546) and get a perfectly adequate charger/maintainer for little more than pocket change. Bob . . . AdmID:F6486214BBE1970F8D80025B40FAD839 AdmID:06B759E0B0A0730917D25A39B6C8677E ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: corvair list From: raymondj@frontiernet.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: raymondj@frontiernet.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" Thanks, RayJ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: corvair list > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > You can subscribe at http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft and/or search > the archives (good to do before posting a question that has been asked > before). The archives are at http://mylist.net/archives/corvaircraft/. > > William Wynne actually is the Corvair-in aircraft expert, having invested > 12 > years of his life into this. His site is at www.flycorvair.com. To search > William's site (not the e-mail list's archive): > www.davemorris.com/SearchFlyCorvair.cfm > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of _ > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: corvair list > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" > > Craig, > > Please post the location of the corvair list. > > Thanks, > RayJ > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Payne" > To: > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" >> >> >> The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: >> >> http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp >> >> Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft >> list >> last night. >> >> -- Craig >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill >> Denton >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" >> --> >> >> This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story >> wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow >> astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts >> simply >> used pencils. >> >> Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: >> >> 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. >> >> 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt >> Prather >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" >> --> >> >> Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. >> >> If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe >> on >> would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down).. >> >> An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a >> little >> combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the >> master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door >> open >> while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, >> but >> not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the >> airplane >> after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on >> >> Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some >> aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at >> night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat >> switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave >> the >> master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, >> maybe? >> Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? >> >> If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could >> be >> illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very >> annoying >> to be around. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Matt- >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" >>> >>> >>> Bob, >>> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, >>> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the >>> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention >>> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. >>> David >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "bob noffs" >>> To: "aeroelectric list" >>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: >>> >>> >>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >>>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >>>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. >>>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >>>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >>>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >>>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt >>>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped >>>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >>>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >>>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >>>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance >>>> Bob Noffs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > AdmID:5C6DB0108AC1E93D2592F6E3FE0F967B ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:22 AM 1/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" > > > >Bob, >The link seems to be dead That's the old "fat" file. Here's the trimmed file I posted later: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip Also, be aware that the website is getting some much needed attention for organization and from time to time, files may move to new folders. You can always go directly to the folder structures by using the site index at: http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html and explore the directories from there. In this case, you go to "Page per System Drawings" and then to "ACAD_Symbols_Library" that will take to the individual symbols and the .zip file of all symbols cited above. Bob . . . AdmID:7B1F6851AD6FE7BC9738B8065430EDA3 AdmID:6CF00A62A9D75FF8972D281B1B2BD938 AdmID:6E156DF86AE40E5C557FDF75315D1E01 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: corvair list From: raymondj@frontiernet.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: raymondj@frontiernet.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" Thanks RayJ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Morris "BigD"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: corvair list > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" > > > http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html > > Dave Morris > www.N75UP.com > > > At 10:46 AM 1/7/2006, you wrote: >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" >> >>Craig, >> >>Please post the location of the corvair list. >> >>Thanks, >>RayJ >> >>do not archive >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Craig Payne" >>To: >>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" >> > >> > >> > The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting: >> > >> > http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp >> > >> > Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft >> > list >> > last night. >> > >> > -- Craig >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill >> > Denton >> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: >> > >> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" >> > --> >> > >> > This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story >> > wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow >> > astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts >> > simply >> > used pencils. >> > >> > Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution: >> > >> > 1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist. >> > >> > 2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway. >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt >> > Prather >> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: >> > >> > >> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" >> > --> >> > >> > Brainstorming, not criticizing here.. >> > >> > If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the >> > strobe >> > on >> > would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery >> > down).. >> > >> > An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a >> > little >> > combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the >> > master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door >> > open >> > while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, >> > but >> > not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the >> > airplane >> > after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on >> > >> > Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some >> > aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at >> > night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a >> > defeat >> > switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave >> > the >> > master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, >> > maybe? >> > Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex? >> > >> > If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these >> > could >> > be >> > illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very >> > annoying >> > to be around. >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Matt- >> > >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" >> >> >> >> >> >> Bob, >> >> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, >> >> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the >> >> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention >> >> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on. >> >> David >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "bob noffs" >> >> To: "aeroelectric list" >> >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: >> >> >> >> >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is >> >>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now >> >>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a >> >>> while. >> >>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the >> >>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am >> >>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am >> >>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt . >> >>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped. >> >>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning >> >>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have >> >>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic >> >>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in >> >>> advance >> >>> Bob Noffs >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > AdmID:125D1C5CFE2B542522E9E085AF3FB71C ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Re corrupted file: 2nd time was the charm. TurboCAD v 7.0 downloaded all the .dwg drawings just fine. Thanks Bob. John do not archive AdmID:F392AD4C042B392312BE9D5DE24E0F2A AdmID:EA5F3BBF041D65D2B1E57CF604B906B5 AdmID:AE9A57985A51C6B71A22994946BC99BF ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels From: wschertz@ispwest.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: wschertz@ispwest.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: wschertz@ispwest.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" I would like one Frank Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Picture sent. > > If anyone else wants one please let me know. > > Frank > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Harley > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley > --> > > Do you have a picture, Frank? If it's a bit big, you can email it to me > directly... > > harley@agelesswings.com > > Harley > > > Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>--> (Corvallis)" >> >>Yes I did this on my zodiac some 6.5 years ago and the labels still >>look great...This time I did a bit more with blue borders around every >>label (last time I did not use borders on all switches and simply cut a > >>whole strip off the sheet and stuck it on the panel...Its oK but it >>could look >>better.) It takes a bit of work cutting around all the labels but it is > >>really worth it. >> >>It really does look hot, blue bordered labels on a white >>panel...Evryone goes a little weak at the knees when they look at my >>panel...:) >> >>Frank >> >>Do not archive >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>Harley >>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >>--> >> >>Morning, Frank... >> >>I like this idea...a lot. >> >>The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen > >>here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have > >>reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, > >>I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing >>directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just >>moving the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface >>then printing. >> >>Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the >>layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same >>sheet, and use them for alignment! >> >>The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the >>alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. >> >>Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after >>installed...but easy to do... >> >>I Like it! >> >>Harley >> >> >>Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>>--> (Corvallis)" >>> >>>I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >>>experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >>>label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >>>printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. >>> >>>I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have > >>>no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear >>>removable >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >>>individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are > >>>when printed. >>> >>>Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing >>>the >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>scotch tape on the panel. >>> >>>The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >>>spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? >>> >>>Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 >>> >>>I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full >>>sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget >>>a >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 >>>years from now you can hit print and get another set. >>> >>>Frank >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > AdmID:E2FFB4FC8186C8FE2817C096F8B7375B AdmID:E9188D4995EF25CC7229EB67B6D4583D ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: nuckollsr@cox.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:20 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" > >Bob, > >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no >trouble opening .dwg's in the past. Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP. I wonder if there are any compatibility problems for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered making my .zip files self-extracting but this makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably concerned about. Try going to this directory: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library 2DIODBLK.DWG is an old symbol originally saved under R14 AutoCAD which I just opened and re-saved under 2000. The thing jumped from 5K to 25K bytes (ugh!). The one just below . . . 30SPDTRY.DWG is still in AutoCAD R14. I'd appreciate it if you'd see how your TCv7.0 handles these two files. The Unzip corruption is another issue. I'll poke around on the 'net and see if we might have a compatibility problem between releases of PkZip. Thanks! Bob . . . AdmID:B3CD43385CE7E94821AE8C1C26459278 AdmID:1A3589EED759AA99A834C4BDC20A273E AdmID:BA65F11D6B22F98E928D65FC3A2A735A ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library From: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jonlaury@impulse.net --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" Bob, Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no trouble opening .dwg's in the past. John do not archive AdmID:FD42C0BCA64B7EC4AA28F6135809513B AdmID:CBB9A5C59A6549EA2A53FA3AE26ACBD5 AdmID:CF69085DA30D66A29721AD595FA082C7 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:42 PM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: OVM does double-duty --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com I have an idea on how to get by with just one OV module for two alternators in Z-13/8 and perhaps other architectures. Submitted for critical review: -relocate the aux. alt. cb to the wire that connects the relay with the aux ammeter shunt. -replace the SPDT Aux Alt off-on switch with a DPDT. -the second pole of the switch transfers the hot end of the OVM (yellow lead) from terminal 4 of the Master DC power switch when the Aux Alt is off, to the original attachment point on the hot side of the aux alt relay coil when the aux alt switch is positioned to "on." -assumption: the OVM will only be needed for one alternator at a time, therefore two separate OVM's are not needed with the above design, and transfer of the OVM to the active alternator is automatic with this design change. A DPDT switch offers less cost, weight and assembly difficulty versus a second OVM. What do you think? It just sort of floated up off the page while I was poring over it this afternoon. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:39 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > >Re corrupted file: > >2nd time was the charm. TurboCAD v 7.0 downloaded all the .dwg drawings >just fine. > >Thanks Bob. > >John Thank you! I'm pleased to benefit from data gathered in your experiment. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:16 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" 99+ percent of alternator failures is to simply stop producing for whatever reason . . . including ov trip. A major fraction of what's left will be cause for manual shutown . . . voltage unstable? Whatever. It is very unlikely that any alternator failure will take out the b-lead protection. It's axiomatic that many problems get worse when the pilot starts messing with things in some attempt to "get all the goodies back up and running." The advantage of a fully dual system is that you spread your backup systems around. One on main bus, one on aux bus. The best thing to do when something goes T.U. on one bus is to simply shut that one down. Go into an endurance mode until comfortable arrival is assured. Battery on the cold bus is held in reserve. Battery on working bus is being supported by normal alternator operations. When and if anything on the 'cold' bus becomes useful or necessary in the final phase of flight. Close battery contactor first and watch for normal battery-only bus levels. Close crossfeed contactor second while observing both bus voltages now show normal operational levels. Then finish the flight. If any voltages appear out of whack after operation of a switch, re-open the switch immediately and finish the flight on one bus . . . but don't do this experiment until you have the airport in sight. I think it's useful to think of the various system options as tools for comfortable termination of flight by insuring availability of minimum equipment . . . the exercises that pilots go through to perform in-flight diagnostics and/or get some suite of equipment up running doesn't necessarily improve outcome is certainly a distraction and perhaps hazardous. Only the more complex aircraft can justify Z-14. While complexity brings capability and convenience, it also brings workload. If you're vfr in the clear, then perhaps a total failure is no big deal. When you are depending on at least the most useful of things to be working then you're probably IFR and busy with pilot-things to do. The last thing you want to do is troubleshoot especially when there is risk of making a situation worse. Bob . . . >Hi Adam >I figure the most likely reason to close the crossfeed is when one >alternator simply stops producing power or has been shutdown by the OV >protection. Bus voltage will be nominal battery voltage in such a case. >With a contactor on the output of an IR regulator even the stator and >diodes are out of the circuit when I shut down an alternator or the OVP >activates but I'd expect the alternator fuse/breaker/ANL to already be >open anyway in that case. I agree that it might be unwise to close the >crossfeed if immediately after the low voltage warning you observe that >the voltage is below normal battery voltage but then again you have the >option if you need the equipment and think maybe you've got a open >circuited or disconnected battery (or open master contactor) that has >allowed a subsequent OV excursion and alternator shutdown. Plan A would >be to leave it alone til on the ground if I don't need it. Any smoke or >sparks would definately keep my finger away from the crossfeed. There >really isn't much of a "bus" on a small airplane with fuse blocks which >makes it very difficult to imagine a shorted bus. Z-14 also gives the >option of conducting a single alternator recovery flight home or to a >maintanance facility. >Ken > >Adam Molny wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Adam Molny > > > > >I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric, > >FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to > >go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the > >ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a > >single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a > >failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight. > > > >If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would > >it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure, > >and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus. > > > >If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding > >field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out > >the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of > >overloading bus B. > > > >Any thoughts? > > > >Adam Molny > >Legacy #151 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:22 PM PST US From: "Bill Maxwell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" Me too, please Frank. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "William" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William" > > I would like one Frank > Bill Schertz > KIS Cruiser # 4045 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > To: > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >> (Corvallis)" >> >> >> Picture sent. >> >> If anyone else wants one please let me know. >> >> Frank >> >> Do not archive >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Harley >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >> --> >> >> Do you have a picture, Frank? If it's a bit big, you can email it to me >> directly... >> >> harley@agelesswings.com >> >> Harley >> >> >> Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>>--> (Corvallis)" >>> >>>Yes I did this on my zodiac some 6.5 years ago and the labels still >>>look great...This time I did a bit more with blue borders around every >>>label (last time I did not use borders on all switches and simply cut a >> >>>whole strip off the sheet and stuck it on the panel...Its oK but it >>>could look >>>better.) It takes a bit of work cutting around all the labels but it is >> >>>really worth it. >>> >>>It really does look hot, blue bordered labels on a white >>>panel...Evryone goes a little weak at the knees when they look at my >>>panel...:) >>> >>>Frank >>> >>>Do not archive >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>>Harley >>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels >>> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley >>>--> >>> >>>Morning, Frank... >>> >>>I like this idea...a lot. >>> >>>The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen >> >>>here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have >> >>>reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels, >> >>>I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing >>>directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just >>>moving the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface >>>then printing. >>> >>>Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the >>>layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same >>>sheet, and use them for alignment! >>> >>>The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the >>>alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets. >>> >>>Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after >>>installed...but easy to do... >>> >>>I Like it! >>> >>>Harley >>> >>> >>>Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>>>--> (Corvallis)" >>>> >>>>I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own >>>>experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my >>>>label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser >>>>printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders. >>>> >>>>I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have >> >>>>no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear >>>>removable >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of >>>>individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are >> >>>>when printed. >>>> >>>>Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing >>>>the >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>scotch tape on the panel. >>>> >>>>The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots >>>>spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost? >>>> >>>>Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665 >>>> >>>>I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full >>>>sheets to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget >>>>a >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>crucial label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 >>>>years from now you can hit print and get another set. >>>> >>>>Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:41 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Kitplanes Marker Generator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Weir wrote an article in the latest issue of Kitplanes (Feb '06) about how to build a marker generator. Looks like a pretty simple unit to build. Can anyone point me in the right direction on what he is using for the 32kHz clock, op-amp, and diodes for the marker beacon tone generator? Also, I assume that the capacitors are ceramic disk and the resistors are 1/4 watt. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Kent Orr ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:12 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Kitplanes Marker Generator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England kcorr@charter.net wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > >Jim Weir wrote an article in the latest issue of Kitplanes (Feb '06) about how to build a marker generator. Looks like a pretty simple unit to build. Can anyone point me in the right direction on what he is using for the 32kHz clock, op-amp, and diodes for the marker beacon tone generator? Also, I assume that the capacitors are ceramic disk and the resistors are 1/4 watt. Any help will be greatly appreciated. > >Kent Orr > Jim Weir monitors rec.aviation.homebuilt & answers questions about his projects on that newsgroup. He's usually pretty quick to answer questions (just be specific about what you want). Also, there's usually more complete info on his web site. Charlie