Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:55 AM - Re: Load Analysis (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:29 AM - Re: Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:48 AM - Re: Z-13 questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:52 AM - Re: Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? ()
5. 07:39 AM - Re: Load Analysis (Bret Smith)
6. 07:52 AM - Fw: common grounding (bob noffs)
7. 08:20 AM - Re: Fw: common grounding (Dan Beadle)
8. 08:34 AM - Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (RussHolland)
9. 09:27 AM - Re: Runway / pattern pilot aid? (D Wysong)
10. 09:45 AM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (Brian Lloyd)
11. 09:45 AM - Re: Z-13 questions (D Wysong)
12. 09:53 AM - Re: Runway / pattern pilot aid? (Brian Lloyd)
13. 10:11 AM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (David Lloyd)
14. 10:24 AM - Re: Runway / pattern pilot aid? (Bill Denton)
15. 11:16 AM - Lazy question (Fergus Kyle)
16. 11:36 AM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (Bill Denton)
17. 12:18 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (David Lloyd)
18. 01:00 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (Matt Prather)
19. 01:03 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (BobsV35B@aol.com)
20. 01:59 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (Jerry Grimmonpre)
21. 02:25 PM - Solder Station (Jerry Grimmonpre)
22. 02:46 PM - Re: ***SPAM*** Lazy question (John Schroeder)
23. 02:52 PM - Re: Solder Station (Dan Beadle)
24. 03:13 PM - Re: Solder Station (Alan K. Adamson)
25. 03:57 PM - Re: Solder Station (Matt Prather)
26. 04:20 PM - Re: Solder Station (Charlie England)
27. 04:43 PM - Re: Lazy question (Eric M. Jones)
28. 04:47 PM - Re: Solder Station (Guy Buchanan)
29. 04:53 PM - Re: Solder Station (Eric M. Jones)
30. 04:58 PM - Re: Common Grounding (Eric M. Jones)
31. 05:56 PM - Re: Solder Station (John Schroeder)
32. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Common Grounding (richard titsworth)
33. 06:27 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (BobsV35B@aol.com)
34. 06:33 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (David Lloyd)
35. 06:59 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (Jerry Grimmonpre)
36. 07:21 PM - Fuse or Fusible Link Question - Was Z-13 Questions (Bill Schlatterer)
37. 07:34 PM - Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane (Brian Lloyd)
38. 08:03 PM - EFIS Comparisons (Greg Vouga)
39. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: what is an engineer.... (Douglas A. Fischer)
40. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: Solder Station (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
41. 08:59 PM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (Malcolm Thomson)
42. 09:43 PM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (Stein Bruch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:41 PM 1/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis Johnson"
><pinetownd@volcano.net>
>
>
>Bret Smith wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bret Smith"
> >
> > Dennis,
> >
> > Looks good. I plan to put the Fuel Boost Pump on the Battery Bus
> though. I
> > will be putting the Transponder and Encoder and your Chelton display #2 on
> > the Main bus and free up some amps on the Endurance bus. The E-Bus should
> > only have the basic instruments to help you get safely on the ground.
May I suggest that the e-bus is to get you comfortably to
airport in sight? After your comfortable arrival is assured,
bring the main bus back up. If you have a small aux alternator,
100% of the battery should be available to get you on the ground.
If you don't have a second alternator, even then, the prudent
design and use of the e-bus should leave you enough snort for
the last few minutes of flight with more goodies running . . . but
even if it doesn't, it shouldn't matter.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
driver?
At 06:34 AM 1/12/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>I have a Rotax 914 powering our Europa XS Monowheel. The oil pressure
>sender changes from 0 ohms to 200 ohms.
>
>Does any one make a device that that will turn on a light when oil
>pressure is low, and turn on a electric hobbs when oil pressure is up?
>
>Or a kit or plans?
Is your engine running? You need to know the range of votlages
that appear the sensor terminal with engine stopped and engine
running. A circuit like our LV Monitor can be modified to
watch this voltage and produce the light action you're seeking.
It could probably be done with one of the boards we already
have.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:58 AM 1/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com
>
>Greetings
>
>Im beginning to get up to speed in preparation for installation of my
>RV-7's electrical system, but have some remaining questions. Regarding
>Bob's Z-13 architecture:
>
>(1) I see no protection built in for the wire between the battery contactor
>and the main bus. Why would this be? In my case,, this wire will need to
>run from the front of the firewall to somewhere on my subpanel, so the wire
>length isnt entirely trivial.
The "fat" wires in light aircraft are not generally "protected" by
more that considered installation to prevent hazardous faults both
along the length of the wire and at the load distribution end (bus).
This philosophy has been in place since day one and has and experience
base of over 250,000 aircraft. There's been no incidents that have
prompted a revision to the philosophy.
>(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
>main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a fusible
>link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just have the
>wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other circuits? I
>know Im missing something...
I you choose to use a fuse block in conjunction with an alternator
control having a crowbar ov protection system, you'll want a circuit
breaker on the panel which is an EXTENSION of the bus from the fuse
block to the breaker. The time constant of fuses is MUCH too fast to
run upstream of a breaker during the crowbar event . . . hence
the fusible link.
Bob . . .
>Thanks. How did people wire planes before the list?
See chapter 17 and in particular Figure 17-1 of the 'Connection.
Alternatively, a cursory inspection of the service manual for
any certified light aircraft will show what's been in place
for about the last 90 years. Not a BAD way to do it. 250,000
happy airplane owners can't be wrong. If you wanted to wire
your airplane exactly the same way (recommended by many of the
kit manufacturers) it would perform as advertised.
Options in the 'Connection and discussed here on the list are
offered for consideration of those who would like to have
more control over their project's electrical system. These options
are in no way intended to be recommendations against anyone choosing
to go with the traditional architectures and hardware.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Bob
Engine not running yet.
Anyone out there with a Rotax 914 (or a 912 or 912S) know the voltage at
the pressure sender when motor is off, and when at idle?
Sounds to me that this is a desirable product.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
A circuit like our LV Monitor can be modified to
> watch this voltage and produce the light action you're seeking.
> It could probably be done with one of the boards we already
> have.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
Hi Dj,
It might seem overly cautious but since I will be running a fuel-injected
engine, my thought was that the fuel boost pump would be more critical than
for a carbureted engine... Even with a mechanical fuel pump.
Bret
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dj Merrill" <deej@deej.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Load Analysis
.
>
> Hi Bret,
> I follow the same procedure for take-off and landing.
> However, one thing that I considered is that the boost pump
> is really a backup to the main pump (in my case a mechanical
> pump), and the "battery" or essential bus is really just a
> backup in case the main bus fails. Realistically, what
> are the chances that both the main bus AND the main fuel pump
> are going to fail at the same time? If you are on the ground, and
> one fails, you aren't going to take off (or shouldn't anyway).
> If you are flying, and either one fails, you land as soon as
> practical, and you should be able to land just fine without
> the boost pump since it is just a backup and not really
> essential to the plane flying. That's what went through my head
> anyways... :-)
>
> The wonderful thing about it is that neither
> approach is wrong. :-)
>
> -Dj
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fw: common grounding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: common grounding
hi all,
did i miss the answer to the original question because i am also interested...''will
a 300 mm run of #10 wire to the forest of tabs from the grounded firewall
create a groundloop? thanks all,
bob noffs
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fw: common grounding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com>
It is important to keep high loads, especially noisy loads, like motors,
away from the forest of tabs. The #10 wire has some small resistance;
when you put a noisy high current through it, it will spill over to the
other equipment. (the high current would cause the tabs to momentarily
rise above ground)
I would be comfortable with a 1 foot run of #10 to forest of tabs which
were used to ground avionics and instruments.
Most noisy loads like motors should ground back at the engine mount.
Alternatively, you could use a separate remote ground point for all the
noisy returns in the cockpit, and ground them back through an
appropriately sized wire to the main ground point.
Hope this helps.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob
noffs
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: common grounding
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs"
<icubob@newnorth.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: common grounding
hi all,
did i miss the answer to the original question because i am also
interested...''will a 300 mm run of #10 wire to the forest of tabs from
the grounded firewall create a groundloop? thanks all,
bob noffs
Message 8
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| Subject: | Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RussHolland" <russholland@ADKAccess.org>
With the recent discussion here on antenna location and effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am building. Mounting plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav. I have looked at the wing tip antennas but there is metal tubing inside the fiberglass trip on the S-7, so I'm not sure they'd work. The Advanced Aircraft Electronics internal antennas such as shown at Aircraft Spruce at www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php state useability for tube and fabric planes but I haven't found any mounting information. Any experience, thoughts or recommendations would be welcome.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3294#3294
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Runway / pattern pilot aid? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
*Sorta/kinda the same thing here, Ron:
http://tinyurl.com/arxqk
I bet you could make one on your computer for less than the $12 price tag,
though.
D
*------------
On 1/12/06, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> A bit off topic, I have been searching for a simple device that has 4
> pointers and a compass face. You put 1 leg on runway heading and the other
> 3 pointers give you crosswind, downwind and base headings. I had one in my
> old cessna 170 and found it useful.
>
> Any one know where to get another?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
> Do not arcive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
RussHolland wrote:
> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am building.
Mounting
plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
counterpoise for the other.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
A followup of question (2) from the peanut gallery, Bob...
Could you oversize the fuse in the fuseblock that feeds the 5A OVP CB to
"guarantee" the breaker pops before the fuse blows? Is there a fuse rating
that'll provide the same level of hard fault protection as the 22 AWG
fuselink while still allowing the 5A OVP CB to pop first?
D
----------
On 1/12/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
> nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:58 AM 1/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com
> >
> >Greetings
> >
> >Im beginning to get up to speed in preparation for installation of my
> >RV-7's electrical system, but have some remaining questions. Regarding
> >Bob's Z-13 architecture:
> >
> >(1) I see no protection built in for the wire between the battery
> contactor
> >and the main bus. Why would this be? In my case,, this wire will need
> to
> >run from the front of the firewall to somewhere on my subpanel, so the
> wire
> >length isnt entirely trivial.
>
> The "fat" wires in light aircraft are not generally "protected" by
> more that considered installation to prevent hazardous faults both
> along the length of the wire and at the load distribution end (bus).
> This philosophy has been in place since day one and has and experience
> base of over 250,000 aircraft. There's been no incidents that have
> prompted a revision to the philosophy.
>
>
> >(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
> >main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a fusible
> >link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just have the
> >wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other
> circuits? I
> >know Im missing something...
>
> I you choose to use a fuse block in conjunction with an alternator
> control having a crowbar ov protection system, you'll want a circuit
> breaker on the panel which is an EXTENSION of the bus from the fuse
> block to the breaker. The time constant of fuses is MUCH too fast to
> run upstream of a breaker during the crowbar event . . . hence
> the fusible link.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> >Thanks. How did people wire planes before the list?
>
> See chapter 17 and in particular Figure 17-1 of the 'Connection.
> Alternatively, a cursory inspection of the service manual for
> any certified light aircraft will show what's been in place
> for about the last 90 years. Not a BAD way to do it. 250,000
> happy airplane owners can't be wrong. If you wanted to wire
> your airplane exactly the same way (recommended by many of the
> kit manufacturers) it would perform as advertised.
>
> Options in the 'Connection and discussed here on the list are
> offered for consideration of those who would like to have
> more control over their project's electrical system. These options
> are in no way intended to be recommendations against anyone choosing
> to go with the traditional architectures and hardware.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Runway / pattern pilot aid? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> On 1/12/06, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>>
>>A bit off topic, I have been searching for a simple device that has 4
>>pointers and a compass face. You put 1 leg on runway heading and the other
>>3 pointers give you crosswind, downwind and base headings. I had one in my
>>old cessna 170 and found it useful.
>>
>>Any one know where to get another?
No, but I have found that one finger held against the face of the DG
(HI) along the runway heading lets me quickly figure out the headings I
need for the various pattern entries. I teach that one to my students.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Brian,
I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical stab.
mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real difference
between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V". Most certified
aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline view.
Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this mounting
practice.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> RussHolland wrote:
>
>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>> building. Mounting
> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>
> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
> counterpoise for the other.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Runway / pattern pilot aid? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
I have an item called the "PDQ Runway Calculator" that is helpful.
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=1196&CATID=171
Check it out...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Runway / pattern pilot aid?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> On 1/12/06, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>>
>>A bit off topic, I have been searching for a simple device that has 4
>>pointers and a compass face. You put 1 leg on runway heading and the other
>>3 pointers give you crosswind, downwind and base headings. I had one in my
>>old cessna 170 and found it useful.
>>
>>Any one know where to get another?
No, but I have found that one finger held against the face of the DG
(HI) along the runway heading lets me quickly figure out the headings I
need for the various pattern entries. I teach that one to my students.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
Lazy, because I suppose I could weasel out the answer after a
lengthy search but:
Does anyone know where I can obtain an idustry standard colour scheme for
electrical systems? I believe I can save time and frustration by sleeving
each end of the wire system with a colour and a number which would permit
quicker trouble-shooting in the long run.
Also, one for other systems as well :
Hydraulics, pneumatics, air, coolant, oil etc.
Thanks for any clue and Happy Landings
Ferg
Message 16
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| Subject: | Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd"
<skywagon@charter.net>
Brian,
I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical stab.
mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real difference
between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V". Most certified
aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline view.
Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this mounting
practice.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> RussHolland wrote:
>
>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>> building. Mounting
> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>
> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
> counterpoise for the other.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Thanks Bill,
I have also heard that many times. I was hoping one of the antenna gurus on
the List might have real data.
For example... it your bird came with the "V" in the streamlined mode, would
it be worth the trouble to get into the vertical stab. and change the mount
for the cat whiskers so that they face forward.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton"
> <bdenton@bdenton.com>
>
> There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
>
> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
> forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
> Lloyd
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd"
> <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> Brian,
> I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical
> stab.
> mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real difference
> between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V". Most certified
> aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline view.
> Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this
> mounting
> practice.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
>> <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>
>> RussHolland wrote:
>>
>>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>>> building. Mounting
>> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>>
>> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
>> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
>> counterpoise for the other.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
Cc: <bdenton@bdenton.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Seems like it might depend on whether you wanted better reception inbound
to the station, or outbound from it.. Or maybe it's related to RF
interaction with the rest of the airframe.
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton"
> <bdenton@bdenton.com>
>
> There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
>
> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should
> face forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
> Lloyd
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd"
> <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> Brian,
> I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical
> stab. mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real
> difference between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V".
> Most certified aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline
> view.
> Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this
> mounting practice.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
>> <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>
>> RussHolland wrote:
>>
>>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>>> building. Mounting
>> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>>
>> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
>> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
>> counterpoise for the other.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
>> . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 1/12/2006 1:38:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
bdenton@bdenton.com writes:
There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
Better yet, use a set of blades. Less problems with ice and a more even
signal pattern.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Hi Bob ...
What blades are you thinking of because I'm interested in something compact
and does not mount inside the wingtips. Can they be mounted on the belly of
an RV or must they mount horizontally on the vertical stab? A belly mount
would be easy to wire as well.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
Electrical planning
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 1/12/2006 1:38:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> bdenton@bdenton.com writes:
>
> There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
>
> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should
> face
> forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>
>
> Better yet, use a set of blades. Less problems with ice and a more even
> signal pattern.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
Message 21
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they exist
but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands, models
or sizes to choose from out there?
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Lazy question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Fergus -
Red is power & Black is ground. Number each connector and each pin (P20/1,
P20/2 ... P30/10, P/11)
Use shrink tubing and make labels. The first number (P20/1) is the
connector originating the wire and the second (P30/10) is the destination
connector. Keep a spreadsheet with all of the connectors and their pinouts
and the wire's destination. Worked very well for us. You also have to
number the connectors on all of your avionics and other electrical items.
I have an Excel spreadsheet with our data on it if you are interested.
Cheers,
John
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:12:09 -0500, Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO@rac.ca> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> Cheers,
> Lazy, because I suppose I could weasel out the answer after a
> lengthy search but:
> Does anyone know where I can obtain an idustry standard colour scheme for
> electrical systems? I believe I can save time and frustration by sleeving
> each end of the wire system with a colour and a number which would permit
> quicker trouble-shooting in the long run.
> Also, one for other systems as well :
> Hydraulics, pneumatics, air, coolant, oil etc.
> Thanks for any clue and Happy Landings
> Ferg
>
>
--
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com>
Most solder stations are designed for small wire - #22 and smaller, but
you can make-do for larger wires. Weller is the oldest, probably best.
For heavy wire you probably want a higher wattage, with more thermal
mass. These are usually un-regulated. These are usually under $50.
Try www.digikey.com and search for solder. Good solder station is $250
or so.
Radio Shack has a pretty good one for $79 - pre-set temps, etc. But I
have had two of them fail on me.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder Station
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre"
<jerry@mc.net>
Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they
exist
but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands,
models
or sizes to choose from out there?
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
If ya want the best, and the fastest, use a Metcal... They use RF to heat
the tip, they are instant on, and are my favorite to use. They are a little
pricy, but watch ebay for deals :)
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder Station
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre"
--> <jerry@mc.net>
Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they exist
but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands, models
or sizes to choose from out there?
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
I like to have access to at least 2 ways to melt solder. The first is
with a fine, high quality pencil iron which will be used on small wire
being attached to small pins which may reside in close quarters. Fine
point, adjustable temperature are the key features. And then a big gun
for use on heavy wire. It may raise the hackles of the purests, but I'd
consider not having the heavy gun in lew of a butane/propane torch which
would handle the heaviest of wires.
In soldering (at least), sophistication of technique can often make up for
lack of sophistication of equipment.
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre"
> <jerry@mc.net>
>
> Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they
> exist but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair
> hangar. It will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any
> name brands, models or sizes to choose from out there?
> Thanks ...
> Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
see below....
Dan Beadle wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com>
>
>Most solder stations are designed for small wire - #22 and smaller, but
>you can make-do for larger wires. Weller is the oldest, probably best.
>
>
>For heavy wire you probably want a higher wattage, with more thermal
>mass. These are usually un-regulated. These are usually under $50.
>
>Try www.digikey.com and search for solder. Good solder station is $250
>or so.
>
>Radio Shack has a pretty good one for $79 - pre-set temps, etc. But I
>have had two of them fail on me.
>
>Dan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
>Grimmonpre
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:25 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder Station
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre"
><jerry@mc.net>
>
>Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they
>exist
>but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
>
>will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands,
>models
>or sizes to choose from out there?
>Thanks ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
There's no need to spend $250 for a soldering station unless you're the
kind of guy who buys Snapon instead of Craftsman because the finish is
prettier. Here's a link to comments about the Weller WTCPT that's been
around in various incarnations for decades, usually priced around $100.
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4478
Be aware that no iron is going to be truly useful for the extreme range
of very light to heavy AWG, any more than you would expect to use only
one drive size for all your socket wrenches. The Weller is fine for the
lightest you are likely to encounter in a/c use up to maybe #12, IF your
technique is perfect. Realistically, for wire that big you'd be better
off with a gun type iron or one of the small butane torches.
I'm still using the Weller station I bought in the mid '70s & saw heavy
use in my repair business for almost 20 years before being moved to
'hobby' status when I closed the business in '94. Tips are available in
various tip sizes & shapes and heaters are replaceable. My old iron is
fixed temperature but there are models with temperature adjustments on
the base. I never had a need for adjustable temperature in all the time
I soldered for a living, doing component level repairs to consumer
electronics. A 700 degree heater on an iron with enough power to keep
the tip hot (like the Weller) will handle at least 98% of the tasks you
are likely to encounter while working on a homebuilt, including building
kits like the RST stuff, etc.
The Weller or something similar will help move you from total novice to
reasonable amateur fairly quickly. If you already had experience with
soldering, you could get by with a $10 pencil iron for about 90% of
required tasks. It just wouldn't have the cooltool factor of a station.
Charlie
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Lazy question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Ferg,
You probably want more info on this. Check:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2004-09-18.html
The long and short is that there is really no one system, but there are many in
use. Read the archive above. I'd just copy it but there were several good posts
on this.
Eric
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3453#3453
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 02:24 PM 1/12/2006, you wrote:
>Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS?
...
>Any name brands, models
>or sizes to choose from out there?
The Metcal SP200 is a wonderful unit. It has replaceable tips so you can
solder small and large, though I don't know how large. It heats fast and
has a steady tip temp. See there web site for specifics. Best of all these
appear quite regularly on Ebay. Not sure why. Be patient and you can pick
them up at a serious discount.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Try eBay "solder station". Weller is good but there are other name brands, "American
Beauty", and others. When you buy offbrand you run the risk of not being
able to get tips and parts easily. I have an ER-brand SD203 which is going to
succumb to that fate soon.
For the big wattage requirements, either a gun type available anywhere or for production
work, the baton-type "Big-Old-Iron" available at any flea market, or
in the bottom of your oldest tool box.
My most valuable suggestion is to AVOID the wet sponge mess and use a stainless
steel chore-boy stuffed into a heavy pipe to clean your tip. I wish I'd know
about this years earlier.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3456#3456
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Check: http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm
This is Copper Clad Aluminum Fatwire and it may solve your problem.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3458#3458
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
The ones on EBay are most likely from an enterprising set of folks who buy
them from the big electronics mfg's or repair stations and auction/sell
them on eBay.
Do not archive.
John
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:45:25 -0800, Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
> Best of all these
> appear quite regularly on Ebay. Not sure why. Be patient and you can pick
> them up at a serious discount.
--
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "richard titsworth" <rtitsworth@mindspring.com>
Eric,
Thanks. I am familiar with the product referenced.
However, assuming I don't need flexibility/formability, does this offer any
advantage over a long aluminum bar? Seems aluminum would be slightly
lighter, cheaper, dissipate heat better, easier to secure (bonded in),
easier to terminate (aka a hole), and isn't toxic if it ever burns. Better
in most/all aspects?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:58 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Common Grounding
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
Check: http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm
This is Copper Clad Aluminum Fatwire and it may solve your problem.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3458#3458
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Evening Jerry,
I have Dorne Margolin on my Bonanza, but we have used mostly Comants for the
last few years. I bought a set of Sensor System antennas for number three
son's machine. All of them use an identical footprint and fastener pattern.
The Sensor System antennas have a stainless steel leading edge which we
thought might be advisable for the Beech 18. He operates out of several small
mountain strips, some of which are gravel.
The antennas need to be mounted horizontally. Most commonly they are
installed on the sides of the vertical fin. They need to be in the same plane
and
opposite each other.
However, for the V-tails, we generally mount them on the side of the
fuselage below the stabilators and about four inches above the bottom of the
fuselage.
We have done several that way and they work great.
How much room is there on an RV beneath the stabilizer? I would think the
blades would need to be at least ten inches to a foot below a horizontal
surface. You also need some amount of ground plane . As I said, we mount them
about four inches above the bottom of the aft fuselage.
I know of one warbird, a P-40, that had them installed on the fuselage about
a foot below the horizontal stabilizer. The antenna manufacturer said the
reception wouldn't be too hot, but the owner is happy. He didn't want to have
anything that would not look original on the airplane. Figured the blades
mounted down there would not be noticeable. He even painted them the same
camouflage color as the fuselage. Don't know for sure, but I would imagine he
used
a paint that would not hurt the reception.
Some folks down in Texas have added blades to their AT-11 under the
stabilizer and they are happy. My number three son is currently having blades
installed on his E18S in the same place . The shop where he is having it done
is
also installing a set under the stabilizers of a T-34. It seems to be a very
popular way of eliminating those pesky nav wires. I consulted with our local
electronics guru before my son made the move for his airplane. His opinion
was that being mounted so close to a horizontal surface might reduce the
reception range from a hundred miles down to seventy-five or so, but he said even
that was just a guess.
Since most folks use GPS enroute and only need the VHF navigation signals
for approaches, lack of range does not seem to present a problem. Having the
navigation blades mounted below the stabilizers and painted the same color as
the fuselage does hide them quite well.
Our friends from Texas, with the AT-11, claim the blades mounted under their
stabilizer work at least as well as did the old Rams Horn mounted up on top.
I saw one Bonanza where the blades had been installed just ahead of the
stabilators and only four or five inches below them. The owner complained of
buffeting and unusual control feel at low speeds. Not only that, but they looked
terrible!
Do Not Archive
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/12/2006 7:40:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jerry@mc.net writes:
Hi Bob ...
What blades are you thinking of because I'm interested in something compact
and does not mount inside the wingtips. Can they be mounted on the belly of
an RV or must they mount horizontally on the vertical stab? A belly mount
would be easy to wire as well.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
Electrical planning
Do Not Archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Good points Matt....
I would still like to see some real test data on the subject.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Cc: <bdenton@bdenton.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
> <mprather@spro.net>
>
> Seems like it might depend on whether you wanted better reception inbound
> to the station, or outbound from it.. Or maybe it's related to RF
> interaction with the rest of the airframe.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton"
>> <bdenton@bdenton.com>
>>
>> There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
>>
>> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should
>> face forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
>> Lloyd
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>>
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd"
>> <skywagon@charter.net>
>>
>> Brian,
>> I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical
>> stab. mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real
>> difference between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V".
>> Most certified aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline
>> view.
>> Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this
>> mounting practice.
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>>
>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
>>> <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>>
>>> RussHolland wrote:
>>>
>>>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>>>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>>>> building. Mounting
>>> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>>>
>>> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
>>> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
>>> counterpoise for the other.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
>>> . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Bob thanks for your reply ... I'll look for them as I begin making my
shopping list.
Regards ...
Jerry
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
> Good Evening Jerry,
>
> I have Dorne Margolin on my Bonanza, but we have used mostly Comants for
> the
> last few years. I bought a set of Sensor System antennas for number three
> son's machine. All of them use an identical footprint and fastener
> pattern.
>
> The Sensor System antennas have a stainless steel leading edge which we
> thought might be advisable for the Beech 18. He operates out of several
> small
> mountain strips, some of which are gravel.
>
> The antennas need to be mounted horizontally. Most commonly they are
> installed on the sides of the vertical fin. They need to be in the same
> plane and
> opposite each other.
>
> However, for the V-tails, we generally mount them on the side of the
> fuselage below the stabilators and about four inches above the bottom of
> the
> fuselage.
>
> We have done several that way and they work great.
>
> How much room is there on an RV beneath the stabilizer? I would think
> the
> blades would need to be at least ten inches to a foot below a horizontal
> surface. You also need some amount of ground plane . As I said, we
> mount them
> about four inches above the bottom of the aft fuselage.
>
> I know of one warbird, a P-40, that had them installed on the fuselage
> about
> a foot below the horizontal stabilizer. The antenna manufacturer said
> the
> reception wouldn't be too hot, but the owner is happy. He didn't want to
> have
> anything that would not look original on the airplane. Figured the
> blades
> mounted down there would not be noticeable. He even painted them the same
> camouflage color as the fuselage. Don't know for sure, but I would imagine
> he used
> a paint that would not hurt the reception.
>
> Some folks down in Texas have added blades to their AT-11 under the
> stabilizer and they are happy. My number three son is currently having
> blades
> installed on his E18S in the same place . The shop where he is having it
> done is
> also installing a set under the stabilizers of a T-34. It seems to be a
> very
> popular way of eliminating those pesky nav wires. I consulted with our
> local
> electronics guru before my son made the move for his airplane. His
> opinion
> was that being mounted so close to a horizontal surface might reduce the
> reception range from a hundred miles down to seventy-five or so, but he
> said even
> that was just a guess.
>
> Since most folks use GPS enroute and only need the VHF navigation signals
> for approaches, lack of range does not seem to present a problem. Having
> the
> navigation blades mounted below the stabilizers and painted the same color
> as
> the fuselage does hide them quite well.
>
> Our friends from Texas, with the AT-11, claim the blades mounted under
> their
> stabilizer work at least as well as did the old Rams Horn mounted up on
> top.
>
> I saw one Bonanza where the blades had been installed just ahead of the
> stabilators and only four or five inches below them. The owner complained
> of
> buffeting and unusual control feel at low speeds. Not only that, but they
> looked
> terrible!
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
> In a message dated 1/12/2006 7:40:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> jerry@mc.net writes:
>
> Hi Bob ...
> What blades are you thinking of because I'm interested in something
> compact
> and does not mount inside the wingtips. Can they be mounted on the belly
> of
> an RV or must they mount horizontally on the vertical stab? A belly
> mount
> would be easy to wire as well.
> Regards ...
> Jerry Grimmonpre'
> Electrical planning
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Fuse or Fusible Link Question - Was Z-13 Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Bob you replied earlier:
>(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
>main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a
>fusible link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just
>have the wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other
>circuits? I know Im missing something...
I you choose to use a fuse block in conjunction with an alternator
control having a crowbar ov protection system, you'll want a circuit
breaker on the panel which is an EXTENSION of the bus from the fuse
block to the breaker. The time constant of fuses is MUCH too fast to
run upstream of a breaker during the crowbar event . . . hence
the fusible link.
Bob . . .
In a previous post, I understood you to say that you could normally
substitute an appropriate fuse, 7a in this case for a 22g fusible link. I
take it from the above that there are instances where you want something
slower than a fuse which is the purpose here for the fusible link and you
would not want to run from the CB directly to a 7a fused slot. True? If so,
are there other instances to be aware of?
You also make the comment specifically as it applies to crowbar OV
protection systems and I see it with the crowbar on the 6/1/05 version of
Z13 using a ford regulator. I assume but am not sure if this also applies
as well if using the B&C LR3 regulator with internal OV protection shown on
earlier versions? ?? (I "was" fusing this one also)
Thanks for your patience!
Bill S
7a Ark
wiring
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
> forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>
>
> Better yet, use a set of blades. Less problems with ice and a more even
> signal pattern.
>
Blade and towel-bar type nav antennas expect to work against a good
ground plane. "Cat-whisker" nav antennas are independent of a ground
plane except where the metal mass blanks part of the antenna and
distorts the radiation pattern.
Use a "cat-whisker" antenna for a rag-and-tube or plastic airplane.
Carbon fiber is more like metal but I am not sure how you get a good bond.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga@hotmail.com>
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer.... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer@iserv.net>
That's true about Germany - look at Herr Professor Doktor Ferdinand Porsche.
Oops! Except he wasn't an engineer either - his degrees were honorary only.
I guess he did OK for his being one of the unwashed masses.
D. Fischer
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Morris "BigD"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer....
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
<BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> A degree or certification or license gets you in the door, and may get you
> paid a higher salary. But it won't keep you there.
>
> And you're wrong about Germany. They have more initials after their names
> than you can imagine. And those who are able (and worthy) of being named
> things like
> Prof. Dr. Dr. Firstname Middlename Lastname-Hyphen-NobilityName Dipl. Ing.
>
> never touch dirt.
> :)
>
> Dave Morris
>
>
> At 10:20 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
> >
> >The difference between Surgeons and Butchers is that Butchers recently
> >discovered three new steaks: Shoulder (or Petite) Tender, Ranch Cut
> >Steaks, and Flat Iron Steaks. This is technology right up there with
> >integrated circuits as far as I'm concerned.
> >
> >My dad was a non-degreed engineer who was right up there with the best,
> >but was sensitive all his days regarding the lack of a formal education.
I
> >know this caused him some pain when wet-behind-the-engineers kids were
> >hired at a salary above his...company policy you know. But the real
brains
> >were in awe of his talents. As a result he had a part in many of the
major
> >technological projects of his time.
> >
> >When I went to grade school I was taught to write with steel-tipped pens
> >dipped into inkwells. In college there were no pocket calculators,
> >personal computers were but a dream. The internet was decades from
> >existing. The methods of acquiring and using information changed
> >radically. One could now toss grenades in most town libraries with no
fear
> >of harming anyone. The time of bricks and mortar education is nearing the
end.
> >
> >If I were asked what a bright technically sophisticated young person
> >should study in school, I would have to side with Thom Friedman--study
> >what good teachers are teaching, what really engages other students--it
> >doesn't matter at all what the subject is.
> >
> >Certificates and diplomas are part of the "English Disease", that a
> >Gentleman should not work with his hands. Having initials after your name
> >certificated you to a life free of digging in the soil. This is a
peculiar
> >Anglo-American notion not shared by the Germans and Russians and Chinese.
> >
> >Small story--I recently fought a LIDAR speeding ticket. In my letter to
> >the court, I added some random and mysterious initials after my name
> >"SDQ3". I did this because I was wondering if the initials would make the
> >court think I was someone special. If challenged I would say they were
> >just meaningless typos, and apologize. It is beyond the scope of this
note
> >to describe the procedings, but I beat the ticket. (Details offlist if
you
> >are faced with a similar situation).
> >
> >Regards,
> >Eric M. Jones
> >www.PerihelionDesign.com
> >113 Brentwood Drive
> >Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> >(508) 764-2072
> >
> >" I would have made a good Pope."
> > -- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 01/12/2006 7:43:26 PM Central Standard Time,
emjones@charter.net writes:
My most valuable suggestion is to AVOID the wet sponge mess and use a
stainless steel chore-boy stuffed into a heavy pipe to clean your tip. I wish I'd
know about this years earlier.
>>>>
PLEASE elaborate, Eric! Never heard of a "chore-boy" down here in the 3rd
wirld...
Mark do not archive
Message 41
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| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" <mthomson@showmeproductions.com>
What is it that "scares the hell out of you" about Blue Mountain. Perhaps
you need a company comparison and not so much a product feature comparison?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Vouga
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Vouga"
--> <gmvouga@hotmail.com>
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
--
--
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Greg,
This is a tough one to put in black and white, just because there are a lot
of things about all the EFIS's that while maybe listed as a "function" act
completely different between mfgrs. The better approach is to decide what
your flight/mission requirments are, then talk to some people that have
experience with different units and can give you an objective overview.
It's really hard to get objective reviews on this stuff, because you'll
quickly find that the average person will normally defend their
purchase/selection and normally they are spot on. That being said, your
requirments/desires for functionality will certainly differ from mine, so my
rationale/justification of a particular product for my plane naturally won't
dovetail with yours. I find that depending on people's requirements, it's
usually pretty easy to figure out which EFIS works best for them after
finding out what they want to do with it, what they can afford, etc..
I've had a fair bit of experience with all the normal players in the market
and can say that so far I've had good experiences with all the companies.
In the past week I've ordered a number of EFIS's and the orders are nearly
equal(BMA, GRT, Dynon & Chelton) so you can see that the current balance
doesn't really show any particular company running away with sales or
functionality. Add to that some exciting new stuff coming out at Sun n Fun
from other manufacturers and the decisions will become somewhat more
confusing!
Anyway, like I said..figure out what you want (and what you can afford) and
go from there.
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg
Vouga
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga@hotmail.com>
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
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