Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? (Gilles Thesee)
2. 05:16 AM - Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? ()
3. 07:28 AM - Re: TurboCad (Ken)
4. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Iso Amp - 2 stereo - 3 mono inputs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: TurboCad (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:52 AM - ELT Remote Gotcha (rv-9a-online)
7. 12:02 PM - Re: ELT Remote Gotcha (Bill Denton)
8. 01:08 PM - Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? (Eric M. Jones)
9. 02:17 PM - Off Subject-Power meter calibration ()
10. 02:49 PM - Re: Off Subject-Power meter calibration (Bob White)
11. 07:00 PM - Off Topic -Power meter calibration (Ken)
12. 07:44 PM - Re: Off Subject-Power meter calibration (Brian Lloyd)
13. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor..pulse interference (John Richardson)
14. 08:50 PM - MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
15. 09:14 PM - Re: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 09:20 PM - Re: EV200 Conducted emissions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 10:01 PM - "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 10:07 PM - Re: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US a crit :
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>Anyone using or know where to get a low amp draw when energized battery
>master contactor?
>
>
>
Hi Ron,
We're using Kilovac EV-200 AAANA. A bit expensive, but very good stuff,
with 0.14 amp draw.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Gilles
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
"We're using Kilovac EV-200 AAANA. A bit expensive, but very good stuff,
with 0.14 amp draw."
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Hi Danny
I also bought version 10 for $16. from "Computer's Worth" and upgraded
it to 10.2 from the IMSI website. As a new CAD user I am very pleased
with it compared to the freeware/shareware CAD
programs that I've dabbled with a bit. The printed manual is pretty good
and worth more than the $16. The manual is also available on the
website. I haven't mastered how to move a component and keep both ends
of the wires attached like I could do with Excel. However after several
hours with it I am able to do most everything else including modifying
Bob's symbols. It is going to take me quite sometime to actually do a
wirebook however so I'd still have to give the nod to paper and pencil
unless you want professional diagrams or have a desire to learn a CAD
program. I haven't tried printing anything yet. Excel was easier to
learn but of course had no symbol library.
Ken
Danny L. Smith wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Danny L. Smith"
<dsmit132@bellsouth.net>
>
>Lectric Bob, did you get your new TurboCad from eBay? If yes, how do you
>like it?
>Danny
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Iso Amp - 2 stereo - 3 mono inputs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:23 PM 1/20/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell"
><pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am shamelessly copying your Iso Amp and modifying it to have 2 stereo
>inputs. In the schematics, you show the input to the op amp as pin 3 on the
>right channel and pin 2 on the left channel. I am not an electronics guy,
>but a EE friend said this would seem this would put the channels out of
>phase. This might be trick to deal with the mono inputs, could you
>comment?
Your friend has a shape eye. This was brought to my attention
some months ago and a change was initiated to swap pin 2/3 on
on of the chips. I did some experiments here on the bench to
swap phase on one channel of stereo programming and couldn't
detect what I'd call a deleterious difference. My audiophile
friends at RAC suggested that a combination of right-left
isolation and/or adaptiveness of human hearing mechanisms made
it no big deal with headphones. When listening through speakers
the out-of-phase common components of sound "mix" in free
air and become more of an issue.
For this reason, I've left the current stock of boards alone.
Revision 2 has swapped the pin on one amplifier and added
spaces for the R99, R98 load resistors needed by some audio
sources.
We're debating whether to add an audio isolation amplifier
to the suite of products under development at the 'Connection.
There seems to be a lot of interest in more mono inputs, on-board
potentiometers for leveling volumes and perhaps a discrete input
for silencing the entertainment audio when cockpit duties call
for attention to aircraft audio sources.
If we did this as a product, it would probably be surface mount
parts and not suited to a DIY project. We'd probably continue
to offer the DIY -2 board as well.
>My daughter and I are going to draw the schematics, lay out the boards and
>make the device as her science fair project. Then we will put it in the RV.
Good for both of you! I presume you've discovered some of the free
layout programs and associated low-cost board fabrication offers
like http://www.expresspcb.com/
I use these guys a lot.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:07 AM 1/22/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>Hi Danny
>I also bought version 10 for $16. from "Computer's Worth" and upgraded
>it to 10.2 from the IMSI website. As a new CAD user I am very pleased
>with it compared to the freeware/shareware CAD
>programs that I've dabbled with a bit. The printed manual is pretty good
>and worth more than the $16. The manual is also available on the
>website. I haven't mastered how to move a component and keep both ends
>of the wires attached like I could do with Excel. However after several
>hours with it I am able to do most everything else including modifying
>Bob's symbols. It is going to take me quite sometime to actually do a
>wirebook however so I'd still have to give the nod to paper and pencil
>unless you want professional diagrams or have a desire to learn a CAD
>program. I haven't tried printing anything yet. Excel was easier to
>learn but of course had no symbol library.
>Ken
Ken brings up a good point. All of you need to concentrate on
one thing . . . the date that first light appears under the
wheels. While an accurate and well crafted wire book will enhance
the future repairs and sales efforts of your project, it does
not help you get the project done.
In my weekend seminars, I suggest that the #2 pencil, pink eraser
and spiral bound notebook are the documentation tools of choice.
Break the task down into page per system drawings. Get the DATA
recorded accurately.
Taking time to pretty up the data is best done after the project
is completed. But even if you don't convert the drawings to computer
images, the all important Lab Notebook is the root repository of all
that is knowable. Make copies of the pages and put them away in a
safe place.
The easiest way to go from pencil to pixels is to take one of hte
wirebooks in progress from my website and push thing around,
add and delete as needed to match what you're doing. The wirebooks
on the website are for a rather complex airplane . . . you're
more likely to need to delete things than to add things. As time
permits, I'm going to break down existing wirebook drawings and
post them in the page per system ( http://aeroelectric.com/PPS )
folder on the website in both .pdf and .dwg form. You can print
and insert the .pdf pages into a manually generated document or
take the .dwg form and integrate it into a more professional
set of CAD drawings.
Aside from the entertainment and/or personal satisfaction of
learning a new piece of software, I'll suggest that getting
up to speed on a CAD system is not moving you toward The Goal
any faster.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | ELT Remote Gotcha |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an
inspector) was not aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to operate.
No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote on
your panel and have no way to access the battery.
So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
hadn't pointed it out.
Vern Little
Message 7
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| Subject: | ELT Remote Gotcha |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
JFTR...
Many Artex remote switch units DO NOT require a battery, but are instead
hardwired to ship's power.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
rv-9a-online
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:49 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Remote Gotcha
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rv-9a-online
<rv-9a-online@telus.net>
In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an
inspector) was not aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to operate.
No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote on
your panel and have no way to access the battery.
So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
hadn't pointed it out.
Vern Little
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Hi Ron,
The only solution I am aware of is the Kilovac Czonka III EV200aaana. Allied electronics
and other have them. The same thing is available from Blue Sea p/n 9012.
On eBay, the Blue Sea parts always seem to be available for about $100.
Not only does the part have a very low current draw, but it will open against conditions
like runaway alternators or shorts. The other "silver-can" types may
not be able to do this, and they draw about 1 ampere.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=5937#5937
Message 9
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| Subject: | Off Subject-Power meter calibration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
Sorry about being off subject, but does anyone know how the power meter on a
residence could be checked for calibration? The power company tells me not
to worry...The meter is correct...HA!
I am pretty certain that is not true.
Also I wonder if the new radio reporting meters can have their calibration
changed via radio???
Thanks for any assistance..
BB Shott from Vinita
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Off Subject-Power meter calibration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
* Get 10 140 ohm 150W resistors
* Wire them in parallel so that you can plug them into a 120V outlet
* turn off everything in the house (Make sure the wheel below the dials
is not moving at all.
* Plug in your resistor array.
* Wait an hour and see if the dial has moved by one kilo watt-hour.
You will be pulling about 8.5 Amps, so any 15A circuit should be OK.
Don't electrocute yourself, and remember those resistors will get HOT.
Each resistor is dissipating 100 watts. You could also use 10 100 watt
lamps, or if you don't mind waiting longer one 100 W lamp will give you
1 KWH in 10 hours.
Bob W.
Do not archive
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:23:22 -0500
<bbradburry@allvantage.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>
> Sorry about being off subject, but does anyone know how the power meter on a
> residence could be checked for calibration? The power company tells me not
> to worry...The meter is correct...HA!
> I am pretty certain that is not true.
>
> Also I wonder if the new radio reporting meters can have their calibration
> changed via radio???
>
> Thanks for any assistance..
>
> BB Shott from Vinita
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (first engine start 1/7/06)
Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Off Topic -Power meter calibration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Might be easier to use one or more radiant electric heaters and measure
the current if you have an AC ammeter. For radiant heaters without fans,
amps times current equals watts. I'd expect the result to be within
about 5%. With a digital meter that only displays whole kilowatt hours
you probably have to start timing when it changes a digit.
Lots of folks have far higher residual current draw than they think.
About 5 watts for every clock, VCR, microwave, etc, etc, begins to add
up. I've seen large screen TV's that draw 20 watts when off which means
that like most VCR's they use far more energy between uses than they do
when actually turned on.
Ken
do not archive
Bob White wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
>
>
>* Get 10 140 ohm 150W resistors
>* Wire them in parallel so that you can plug them into a 120V outlet
>* turn off everything in the house (Make sure the wheel below the dials
> is not moving at all.
>* Plug in your resistor array.
>* Wait an hour and see if the dial has moved by one kilo watt-hour.
>
>You will be pulling about 8.5 Amps, so any 15A circuit should be OK.
>
>Don't electrocute yourself, and remember those resistors will get HOT.
>Each resistor is dissipating 100 watts. You could also use 10 100 watt
>lamps, or if you don't mind waiting longer one 100 W lamp will give you
>1 KWH in 10 hours.
>
>Bob W.
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:23:22 -0500
><bbradburry@allvantage.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>>
>>Sorry about being off subject, but does anyone know how the power meter on a
>>residence could be checked for calibration? The power company tells me not
>>to worry...The meter is correct...HA!
>>I am pretty certain that is not true.
>>
>>Also I wonder if the new radio reporting meters can have their calibration
>>changed via radio???
>>
>>Thanks for any assistance..
>>
>>BB Shott from Vinita
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Off Subject-Power meter calibration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
bbradburry@allvantage.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>
> Sorry about being off subject, but does anyone know how the power meter on a
> residence could be checked for calibration? The power company tells me not
> to worry...The meter is correct...HA!
> I am pretty certain that is not true.
Turn off everything in your house (best to just open all the breakers)
and then plug in a known resistive load like a big heater into the one
circuit you leave on. Check its current draw with a clamp-on ammeter.
Measure your voltage and let the heater run for a known amount of time.
Figure watts (V*A) and multiply by time in hours. Divide by 1000 and the
result is KWH. Your meter reading and your calculations should be the same.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor..pulse |
interference
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Richardson" <jrichard@ccser.com>
Eric and Others..
The EV200 uses a pulsed coil energizer scheme to enable a low average
current draw to hold the coil in place. Normal aircraft contactors use DC
to close the coil then the same DC to hold the coil in place. I talked to
the Kilovac rep about the pulse circuit and he said they have had a few
complaints about interference from the pulsing. I'm not sure what kind of
interference, but I suspect conducted interference on the coil energizing
line spreading into other sensitive audio circuits.
Here's a web link to the EV200 PDF datasheet
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
Has anyone experienced this interference and does the normal filter scheme
for noisy loads published by 'lectric Bob take care of it?
John Richardson
jrichard@ccser.com
Spokane WA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
Hi Ron,
The only solution I am aware of is the Kilovac Czonka III EV200aaana. Allied
electronics and other have them. The same thing is available from Blue Sea
p/n 9012. On eBay, the Blue Sea parts always seem to be available for about
$100.
Not only does the part have a very low current draw, but it will open
against conditions like runaway alternators or shorts. The other
"silver-can" types may not be able to do this, and they draw about 1 ampere.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=5937#5937
Message 14
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| Subject: | MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
I have a VOR/ILS indicator made by Mid Content Instruments (MD200-306) and I
am trying to figure out if it is lighted internally or if I need to supply
some sort of lighting. The (Spartan) instruction manual shows lighting
connections but I'm not sure if they are for the annunciator lights or for
full facial lighting. Those who've used this instrument in your panels, do
you remember if it is internally lit or will I need to supply post lights or
something similar? I emailed Mid Content Instruments several days ago about
this but apparently their entire technical support department is on an
extended vacation! Thanks for all the help.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Panel
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:50 PM 1/22/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
><dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
>
>I have a VOR/ILS indicator made by Mid Content Instruments (MD200-306) and I
>am trying to figure out if it is lighted internally or if I need to supply
>some sort of lighting. The (Spartan) instruction manual shows lighting
>connections but I'm not sure if they are for the annunciator lights or for
>full facial lighting. Those who've used this instrument in your panels, do
>you remember if it is internally lit or will I need to supply post lights or
>something similar? I emailed Mid Content Instruments several days ago about
>this but apparently their entire technical support department is on an
>extended vacation! Thanks for all the help.
I found a diagram calling out connections to the MD200-306 at
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_FullStackWiring-TwoSL30SCH0103.pdf
Seems that 19, and 20 are 14 and 28v annunciator power.
23 and 24 are 14 and 28v dimmer for illumination. These
might be the same sources if you want the illumination and
annunciation to track.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | RE: EV200 Conducted emissions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:46 PM 1/22/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Richardson"
><jrichard@ccser.com>
>
>Eric and Others..
>
>The EV200 uses a pulsed coil energizer scheme to enable a low average
>current draw to hold the coil in place. Normal aircraft contactors use DC
>to close the coil then the same DC to hold the coil in place. I talked to
>the Kilovac rep about the pulse circuit and he said they have had a few
>complaints about interference from the pulsing. I'm not sure what kind of
>interference, but I suspect conducted interference on the coil energizing
>line spreading into other sensitive audio circuits.
>
>Here's a web link to the EV200 PDF datasheet
>
> http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
>
>Has anyone experienced this interference and does the normal filter scheme
>for noisy loads published by 'lectric Bob take care of it?
Hmmmm . . . "noisy" isn't very definitive. I've been spending most of
my time for the past two weeks in the EMC lab (best duty at RAC . . .
if you need some thinking time. Dark, quiet, environmentally controlled,
nothing to do but watch the paint dry). I think I saw one of those
contactors in a junk box over in experimental flight test. If I can
put my hands on it, I'll see if I can take a quick peek at conducted
emissions for this critter. If I can't find it, maybe the Tyco guys
will sample me one.
In any case, never met a noise I couldn't filter . . . but I have
seen some filters that nobody wanted to put in their airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Some months ago, someone was asking about a circuit to
make the float-switches in their airplane be a bit more
definitive as to when the low fuel warning light was
illuminated.
I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
this capability?
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
http://www.aeroelectric.com
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| Subject: | Re: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Dean,
Hooked mine up a few weeks ago. The Annunciator lights are
the little words, like GPS, and NAV. Yes, you need to
put in a dimmer circuit for the backlighting. No post lights
needed. You give it the dimmer voltage at pin 23, and hook
pins 22 and 21 to ground. You won't use pin 25. You can
use all sorts of dimmers, but I used the $20 one from
Van's. Simple and works fine for the job, and I dim 3
other items with it as they are all fairly low draw.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
>
> I have a VOR/ILS indicator made by Mid Content Instruments (MD200-306) and I
> am trying to figure out if it is lighted internally or if I need to supply
> some sort of lighting. The (Spartan) instruction manual shows lighting
> connections but I'm not sure if they are for the annunciator lights or for
> full facial lighting. Those who've used this instrument in your panels, do
> you remember if it is internally lit or will I need to supply post lights or
> something similar? I emailed Mid Content Instruments several days ago about
> this but apparently their entire technical support department is on an
> extended vacation! Thanks for all the help.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Panel
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