---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/27/06: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:09 AM - Re: Why use starter contactor? () 2. 05:38 AM - Re: GPS antenna (Eric Newton) 3. 06:24 AM - Re: Battery Charging Question - Fight or Switch? (Mark R Steitle) 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: GPS antenna (Dan Beadle) 5. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Why use starter contactor? (sportav8r@aol.com) 6. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: Why use starter contactor? (Dave Morris \) 7. 11:11 AM - Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs (Richard Hughes) 8. 12:07 PM - Re: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs (Bill Cary) 9. 12:16 PM - Re: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs (Glaeser, Dennis A) 10. 05:19 PM - Re: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs () 11. 05:19 PM - Re: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs () 12. 05:19 PM - Re: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs () 13. 07:42 PM - Compact Panel Layout - Interference ? (Gerry Filby) 14. 08:23 PM - switch rating (Jim Stone) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Why use starter contactor? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >From: "Bob Lee" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Why use starter contactor? > >The starter already has one so it looks like increased part count >which equals reduced reliability. What is the function of the starter >contactor listed in Z-13/8? There are heavy duty momentary push buttons that go from 15A to 75A. Here are a couple of examples, 15 amp and 50 amp. I think 15 amp switch would work, or go with the 50 amp switch or go with the small BOSCH relay as Bill sportav8r@aol.com suggested: http://www.philmore-datak.com/Page%20147.pdf http://www.philmore-datak.com/EDS2.pdf SkyTec wire diagram with no firewall start contactor http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm Note the catch diode. Leave the FW starter relay off, if you like, I did. The only down side is that 3-4 foot length of 2-4 AWG is hot all the time the master is on. I do not think it's an issue and chance of short or fire is small. If you get in a crash and the engine is ripped off, I don't think the battery cable will be you only problem. George --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:57 AM PST US From: "Eric Newton" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS antenna --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" Hi all, I'm building a tube & fabric airplane. I know that GPS can "see" through fiberglass but does anyone know if it also can see through poly-fiber fabric finished with the UV protectant silver paint on it? Thanks, Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS BH #682 http://mybearhawk.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery Charging Question - Fight or Switch? From: "Mark R Steitle" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" Brian, Thanks for your most excellent reply. Looks like I should start using the deep-cycle setting from now on. Mark S. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:46 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Charging Question - Fight or Switch? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Mark R Steitle wrote: > Following an earlier Aero-Electric discussion on battery chargers, I > purchased a Schumacher SC-1200A charger to use in maintaining the > Odyssey PC-680 batteries in my airplane. The charger has settings for > flooded-cell, deep-cycle, and AGM/Gel-cell batteries. I've been using > the AGM/Gel-cell setting. I read today in the document titled Charging > Odyssey Drycell Batteries (www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm) where > it states, "In general, do not use either the gel cell or maintenance > free setting, if provided on your charger. Choose the deep cycle > option, should there be one on your charger." So, now I'm confused as > to which to use. My PC-680 doesn't appear to have been harmed by > charging on the AGM/Gel-cell setting, but now I'm confused. Should I > switch to the deep-cycle setting, or continue as before? The charging voltages for AGM and gel-cells are quite different. If the manufacturer has put an AGM/gel setting it means that the manufacturer does not understand the difference between AGM and gel batteries. My guess is that the deep-cycle is probably closer as the charging voltages that AGM batteries like are quite close to the charging voltages needed for properly charging deep-cycle flooded-cell batteries. Ballpark charging voltages (70F-80F, (21C-27C): AGM/deep-cycle Gel-cell Charge 14.3V 13.7V Float 13.4V 13.4V It is interesting to note that the charge and float voltages for gel-cells are close enough together that you can actually get away with one setting for charge and float with gel-cells. 13.6V would probably work well for both charge and float. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS antenna From: "Dan Beadle" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" I don't know the direct answer - I suspect it would be fine. The real simple way to find out is a test. Take your GPS (even a hand-held will do). Select the satellite screen. Let it lock on for a couple minutes and look at the signal strength (the height of the bars) Then take several layers of doped up fabric and lay over the antenna. Wait a minute or so, then look at the signal levels. If there is little or no change, you are in great shape. By using several layers, you increase the attenuation effect of the fabric to simulate worst case. Hope this helps and let us know the results Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Newton Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:35 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS antenna --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" Hi all, I'm building a tube & fabric airplane. I know that GPS can "see" through fiberglass but does anyone know if it also can see through poly-fiber fabric finished with the UV protectant silver paint on it? Thanks, Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS BH #682 http://mybearhawk.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:48 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Why use starter contactor? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com I don't think the hot wire to the starter is to worry about, since it is controllable via the battery contactor in event of smelling smoke... not perfect protection but at least control. -Bill B -----Original Message----- From: gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Sent: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 04:01:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Why use starter contactor? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >From: "Bob Lee" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Why use starter contactor? > >The starter already has one so it looks like increased part count >which equals reduced reliability. What is the function of the starter >contactor listed in Z-13/8? There are heavy duty momentary push buttons that go from 15A to 75A. Here are a couple of examples, 15 amp and 50 amp. I think 15 amp switch would work, or go with the 50 amp switch or go with the small BOSCH relay as Bill sportav8r@aol.com suggested: http://www.philmore-datak.com/Page%20147.pdf http://www.philmore-datak.com/EDS2.pdf SkyTec wire diagram with no firewall start contactor http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm Note the catch diode. Leave the FW starter relay off, if you like, I did. The only down side is that 3-4 foot length of 2-4 AWG is hot all the time the master is on. I do not think it's an issue and chance of short or fire is small. If you get in a crash and the engine is ripped off, I don't think the battery cable will be you only problem. George --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:40 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Why use starter contactor? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" At 09:59 AM 1/27/2006, you wrote: > >If you >get in a crash and the engine is ripped off, I don't think the battery >cable will be you only problem. George > It may not be, but it could mean the difference between walking away doused in gasoline, and walking away on fire, hoping somebody can get to you quickly enough to put out the flames. This happened to a friend of mine who would have walked away from a crash if it had not been for that one little spark. I'm putting a starter contactor on the firewall to absolutely shut off any possibility of the fat wire going to the starter chafing against baffling material or anything else in the event the engine decides to leave its normal upright, and locked position. What's a few bucks, guys? My experience with this friend of mine has made me a believer in steel braided fuel hose, Earl's fittings, Nomex clothing, and a lot of other things that may cost a few dollars extra, but could avoid years of skin graft surgery. Dave Morris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:44 AM PST US From: Richard Hughes Subject: AeroElectric-List: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Hughes Greetings, I am asking for a friend who is nearing completion of his airplane. Strobe sets cost $900 Thee police cares in the Long Island New York area have strobes in their marker lights. Is anyone familiar with them? Any possibility that they could be used in out aircraft? And likewise with the automotive LED replacement bulbs? -Rich ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:33 PM PST US From: "Bill Cary" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Cary" Rich, Check out this site. This may be what you're looking for. I will probably use one of their strobe kits in my RV. http://www.strobesnmore.com/ Bill Snip: I am asking for a friend who is nearing completion of his airplane. Strobe sets cost $900 Thee police cares in the Long Island New York area have strobes in their marker lights. Is anyone familiar with them? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:54 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" Rich, I got my strobe system from www.strobesnmore.com. I'm not flying yet, but know a number of folks who have automotive strobe systems installed on flying aircraft. I will be using the Whelen tail light/strobe unit from Vans. You can also check out www.creativair.com. If you have interior lighting which uses 'regular' filament bulbs, there are a number of places that have plug-in LED replacements. LEDs won't replace landing/taxi lights (yet anyway). As long as you are putting them on a homebuilt - you can use anything you want, as long as it meets the appropriate FAA spec, if appropriate, of course. Dennis Glaeser RV7A Fuselage --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Hughes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hello Rich Ain't automotive, Ain't certified, Ain't very expensive: http://www.kestrobes.com/ I am lookin pretty hard at the Dual Magnum and Combo LED position lights for Europa project. Search in arcives if ya wanna listen to the boss man speak of his stuff: http://www.ultraflightradio.com/ His power supply will drive many heads if ya don't like what he offers. Not much power draw. Also too look up install and troubleshooting on his website. Supposedly the LEDs he uses are way powerful, and by machiningthe base from aluminium he is able to sink out some of those BTUs. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:37 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs From: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hello Rich Ain't automotive, Ain't certified, Ain't very expensive: http://www.kestrobes.com/ I am lookin pretty hard at the Dual Magnum and Combo LED position lights for Europa project. Search in arcives if ya wanna listen to the boss man speak of his stuff: http://www.ultraflightradio.com/ His power supply will drive many heads if ya don't like what he offers. Not much power draw. Also too look up install and troubleshooting on his website. Supposedly the LEDs he uses are way powerful, and by machiningthe base from aluminium he is able to sink out some of those BTUs. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:37 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs From: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hello Rich Ain't automotive, Ain't certified, Ain't very expensive: http://www.kestrobes.com/ I am lookin pretty hard at the Dual Magnum and Combo LED position lights for Europa project. Search in arcives if ya wanna listen to the boss man speak of his stuff: http://www.ultraflightradio.com/ His power supply will drive many heads if ya don't like what he offers. Not much power draw. Also too look up install and troubleshooting on his website. Supposedly the LEDs he uses are way powerful, and by machiningthe base from aluminium he is able to sink out some of those BTUs. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:00 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Compact Panel Layout - Interference ? From: Gerry Filby --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Morning All, I'm considering laying out my panel in a very compact manner per this image. http://www.gerf.com/images/panel.jpg Dynon EFIS D100 AFC AF2500 Garmin GMA 340 Garmin GTX 327 Garmin SL 40 I'm concerned that the electronic instruments may interfere with the radio or each other being in such close proximity. Have any of you experienced inter-instrument interference. __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:36 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" Can someone educate me on switch ratings? I just red Bob's article on the subject and I have the following question. In his article he states that one can use the same amp rating that is written on the side of the switch for 115vac in our 14vdc airplanes. My switches have a rating of 15 amps at 250vac. So do I have a 7amp switch or a 30 amp swithch if used in my 14vdc airplane. The switch btw is an avionics switch in the normal feed wire to the E-bus and downstream of the diode. My E bus is essentially my avionics bus minus one radio and has 10 items on it. I'm concerned the switch will be overloaded and perhaps I should add a contactor or the s704-1 relay from B+C. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim Harmon Rocket II 95% wired