Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:15 AM - Excel Wire Book (SMITHBKN@aol.com)
2. 04:44 AM - tail light problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: tail light problem (Gilles Thesee)
4. 06:19 AM - Re: tail light problem (Vern Little)
5. 07:45 AM - Re: tail light problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: tail light problem (Deene Ogden)
7. 07:45 AM - Re: tail light problem (Robert Sultzbach)
8. 07:54 AM - Re: Excel Wire Book (McFarland, Randy)
9. 08:26 AM - OC Baker....... (Fergus Kyle)
10. 09:05 AM - OV Module (Ron)
11. 09:53 AM - Re: tail light problem (rd2@evenlink.com)
12. 12:24 PM - Hall effect current sensor location (Geoff Evans)
13. 03:30 PM - Vertex Standard VXA-210 & Aircraft Intercom (Bill Denton)
14. 06:20 PM - Re: Hall effect current sensor location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 06:30 PM - Seminar in Norfolk/Chesapeake, VA (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 06:52 PM - 12 Volt DC Bench Power Supply (J. Mcculley)
17. 07:03 PM - Re: Hall effect current sensor location (Bob C.)
18. 07:08 PM - Re: 12 Volt DC Bench Power Supply (Bob C.)
19. 08:18 PM - Re: 12 Volt DC Bench Power Supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 08:18 PM - Re: Hall effect current sensor location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 08:52 PM - Re: Hall effect current sensor location (DonVS)
22. 08:54 PM - Re: Hall effect current sensor location (Richard Sipp)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SMITHBKN@aol.com
Will,
I posted my wiring approach to the group a few weeks back. It was all in
excel. I'll send you a copy of it offline.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jeff Smith
Knoxville, TN
Message 2
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Subject: | tail light problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
We are trying to pinpoint a problem with the rudder mounted tail light on a
cessna 172. I think originally the taillight should be fed from the same
rocker switch that feeds the wingtip nav lights (?).We have no wiring
diagram for the aircraft.
Now, after an avionics upgrade, the taillight only responds to the rheostat
for the instrument lighting (the center one). We've got a dimmable tail
light. No response to the nav lights rocker switch. The wing tip nav lights
work ok.
I'd appreciate any ideas.
Rumen
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: tail light problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
rd2@evenlink.com a crit :
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
>We are trying to pinpoint a problem with the rudder mounted tail light on a
>cessna 172. I think originally the taillight should be fed from the same
>rocker switch that feeds the wingtip nav lights (?).We have no wiring
>diagram for the aircraft.
>Now, after an avionics upgrade, the taillight only responds to the rheostat
>for the instrument lighting (the center one). We've got a dimmable tail
>light. No response to the nav lights rocker switch. The wing tip nav lights
>work ok.
>I'd appreciate any ideas.
>
>
>
Your avionics technician may have messed up the instrument lights and
tail light wires. The terminals on the bus bars or terminal strips may
be adjacent. What about tracing the tail light terminal and trying to
find the correct position ? In a cerified ship, the wires must be labelled.
Or better yet, bring back the airplane to the technician, to have him
correct his mistake ?
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: tail light problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vern Little <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
I have no experience with the 172, but if it's similar to the way I
think, then it may be a two-pole switch. One pole switches the Position
(including tail) lights, and the other pole switches the dimmer power.
It sounds like the tail position wire got re-connected to the wrong pole.
A stab in the dark, but easy to check and fix.
Vern Little RV-9A
rd2@evenlink.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
> We are trying to pinpoint a problem with the rudder mounted tail light on a
> cessna 172. I think originally the taillight should be fed from the same
> rocker switch that feeds the wingtip nav lights (?).We have no wiring
> diagram for the aircraft.
> Now, after an avionics upgrade, the taillight only responds to the rheostat
> for the instrument lighting (the center one). We've got a dimmable tail
> light. No response to the nav lights rocker switch. The wing tip nav lights
> work ok.
> I'd appreciate any ideas.
>
> Rumen
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: tail light problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Gilles,
>
Your avionics technician may have messed up the instrument lights and
tail light wires.
>
This is what it looks like. I am taking it back, but also I am of the kind
that always wants to know the reason.
Vern,
>....if it's similar to the way I think, then it may be a two-pole switch.
One pole switches the Position (including tail) lights, and the other pole
switches the dimmer power.
>
A good point to check.
>
It sounds like the tail position wire got re-connected to the wrong pole.
>
Yep
Thanks guys
Rumen
do not archive
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: tail light problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deene Ogden <deene@us.ibm.com>
Also, many GA planes have the instrument lights and associated dimmer on
the same switch (pole) as the nav lights so that they come on whenever the
nav lights are selected. Sounds like the shop got the nav/instr light
circuit messed up somehow and connected the taillight to the instrument
light loop downstream of the dimmer.
I would start tracing from the nav switch and see what happened. Also the
Cessna groups can probably get you a lead to a schematic for your 172 to
help.
Deene
Vern Little <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
Sent by: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
02/03/2006 08:14 AM
Please respond to
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
To
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: AeroElectric-List: tail light problem
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vern Little
<rv-9a-online@telus.net>
I have no experience with the 172, but if it's similar to the way I
think, then it may be a two-pole switch. One pole switches the Position
(including tail) lights, and the other pole switches the dimmer power.
It sounds like the tail position wire got re-connected to the wrong pole.
A stab in the dark, but easy to check and fix.
Vern Little RV-9A
rd2@evenlink.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
>
> We are trying to pinpoint a problem with the rudder mounted tail light
on a
> cessna 172. I think originally the taillight should be fed from the same
> rocker switch that feeds the wingtip nav lights (?).We have no wiring
> diagram for the aircraft.
> Now, after an avionics upgrade, the taillight only responds to the
rheostat
> for the instrument lighting (the center one). We've got a dimmable tail
> light. No response to the nav lights rocker switch. The wing tip nav
lights
> work ok.
> I'd appreciate any ideas.
>
> Rumen
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: tail light problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Sultzbach <endspeed@yahoo.com>
I have no input as far as a correction but I am
curious as to how you found this problem. I would
think most folks would never notice their tail light.
As an aside, have you verified that these are the only
two systems involved in the malfunction. Perhaps
another oddball effect is lurking. I applaud your
thoroughness in detecting this problem. I suggest
checking all your systems to ensure they are operating
correctly. Bob
--- rd2@evenlink.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
> rd2@evenlink.com
>
> We are trying to pinpoint a problem with the rudder
> mounted tail light on a
> cessna 172. I think originally the taillight should
> be fed from the same
> rocker switch that feeds the wingtip nav lights
> (?).We have no wiring
> diagram for the aircraft.
> Now, after an avionics upgrade, the taillight only
> responds to the rheostat
> for the instrument lighting (the center one). We've
> got a dimmable tail
> light. No response to the nav lights rocker switch.
> The wing tip nav lights
> work ok.
> I'd appreciate any ideas.
>
> Rumen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland@novellus.com>
Me too please.
I'm right there as well in my build process.
Appreciate your willingness to share your work.
Randy
7A in San Jose, Ca.
-----Original Message-----
From: SMITHBKN@aol.com [mailto:SMITHBKN@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:09 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Excel Wire Book
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SMITHBKN@aol.com
Will,
I posted my wiring approach to the group a few weeks back. It was all in
excel. I'll send you a copy of it offline.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jeff Smith
Knoxville, TN
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
OC,
Just as Fred F contributes useful info to the group, may I thank
you for your last epistle on the External/Nav lights issue.
.........Couldn't have been more to the point!
Tahnks again and Happy Landings
Ferg
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtriano.com>
Thanks for the help guys. I started to check and found closer resistors to
the ones called out and changed the ones per Bobs latest revision. The
module works as it should and cuts the power at 16V.
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
Message 11
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Subject: | RE: tail light problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Bob,
My grand dad used to lock the door methodically and thoroughly, make 2
steps and come back (twice) to check if the door is locked <g> We kids used
to laugh. Now I find myself in the same position, I try to check (trust by
verify) all details I can think of.
Yes, I tried to verify and and isolate the problem and at this time only
the tail light needs the rheostat full up in order to work. But checking
for other malfunctions will continue.
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Robert Sultzbach; Date: 07:41 AM 2/3/2006
-0800)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Sultzbach <endspeed@yahoo.com>
I have no input as far as a correction but I am
curious as to how you found this problem. I would
think most folks would never notice their tail light.
As an aside, have you verified that these are the only
two systems involved in the malfunction. Perhaps
another oddball effect is lurking. I applaud your
thoroughness in detecting this problem. I suggest
checking all your systems to ensure they are operating
correctly. Bob
--------------------------------
Deene,
>
Also, many GA planes have the instrument lights and associated dimmer on
the same switch (pole) as the nav lights so that they come on whenever the
nav lights are selected. Sounds like the shop got the nav/instr light
circuit messed up somehow and connected the taillight to the instrument
light loop downstream of the dimmer.
I would start tracing from the nav switch and see what happened. Also the
Cessna groups can probably get you a lead to a schematic for your 172 to
help.
>
Thanks, useful info. In our case dimmer rheostat must be fed directly
(apparently), as the taillight and instrument lighting dimm independently
from the nav lights rocker switch.
I am coming to the preliminary conclusion (without having done any tracing)
that the tail light somehow got switched from the nav lights rocker switch
"out" to the dimmer-rheostat "out". Looks like now we need to pull all
connections off from the rheostat, one by one, to find out which is the
tail light +feed and to re-connect it to the nav lights rocker. (this is if
no labels or unredable)
Any comments, guys?
Rumen
do not archive
Message 12
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Subject: | Hall effect current sensor location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
I recently purchased a VM-1000C from Vision Microsystems. The directions say
to install the hall effect current sensor in the "cabin area." However, in
order to place it on the B-lead between the alternator and starter solenoid,
I'll have to mount it on the engine side of the firewall.
I called Vision and they said not to mount it on the engine side of the
firewall because the sensor is only rated to 150 degrees. On the other hand,
numerous pictures of other people's airplanes show hall effect sensors for
many different engine monitors (including the VM-1000) mounted on the engine
side of the firewall.
So what's the real story here?
Thanks.
-Geoff
RV-8
Message 13
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Subject: | Vertex Standard VXA-210 & Aircraft Intercom |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
Does anyone have a wiring diagram showing how to connect a Vertex Standard VXA-210
to an aircraft intercom?
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9449#9449
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Hall effect current sensor location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:18 PM 2/3/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans
><hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
>
>I recently purchased a VM-1000C from Vision Microsystems. The directions say
>to install the hall effect current sensor in the "cabin area." However, in
>order to place it on the B-lead between the alternator and starter solenoid,
>I'll have to mount it on the engine side of the firewall.
>
>I called Vision and they said not to mount it on the engine side of the
>firewall because the sensor is only rated to 150 degrees. On the other hand,
>numerous pictures of other people's airplanes show hall effect sensors for
>many different engine monitors (including the VM-1000) mounted on the engine
>side of the firewall.
>
>So what's the real story here?
The story is that nobody has measured what the
real working environment temperatures are in
the proposed firewall mounting locations. Further,
while the device is rated for 150F operating, transients
of more than that (usually happen immediately following
shutdown) won't kill it.
Risks are low. Give it a try. Let's do some tests during
your fly-off to KNOW what you're dealing with. One of the
new products under development for the 'Connection website
is a 4-channel, 10-bit, A/D converter that runs from the
USB port of a laptop. We'll have a nice graphical user
interface to go with it. The price will be VERY attractive.
It's exactly what you need for this an other interesting
and informative experiments. Perhaps you can be my beta-customer.
In the mean time, anecdotal data suggest that the hall
effect sensors live happily on the firewall as long as they
don't get direct IR radiation from hot exhaust stacks.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 15
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Subject: | Seminar in Norfolk/Chesapeake, VA |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
EAA Chapter 339 has enthusiastically launched into an activity
with goals to sell the minimum number of seats for a weekend seminar in
Chesapeake, VA on March 25/26. I thought this to be an ambitious
endeavor because we need to make a go/no-go decision 30 days
in advance to keep our airline travel costs down.
They assured me that they already had 10 folks committed so
I agreed to schedule the event. If we pull it off, it will be
the shortest-coupled program we've tried to organize. List subscribers
in the area might want to consider attending this presentation.
The sign-up sheet is at:
http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Chesapeake.html
As always, satisfaction is guaranteed with all AeroElectric Connection
products. You don't pay for it until after the program and if
you believe the tuition is too high, then pay what you think
it WAS worth.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 16
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Subject: | 12 Volt DC Bench Power Supply |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>
Can someone recommend a source/model of bench power supply using 110V AC
input with 12V DC output, capable of up to 15 amps DC? Thanks,
Jim McCulley
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Hall effect current sensor location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
I have an EIS from Advanced Flight Systems . . . their instruction
said the same thing and I had the same issue . . .
When I asked them . . . their bigger concern was moisture but said it
would be OK to mount it on the FW if I put it in a little enclosure to
protect it. They didn't mention the heat issue . . . I'm sure things
get warm especially on the ground on a hot day?!
Good Luck,
Bob
On 2/3/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 12:18 PM 2/3/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Geoff Evans
> ><hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I recently purchased a VM-1000C from Vision Microsystems. The directions say
> >to install the hall effect current sensor in the "cabin area." However, in
> >order to place it on the B-lead between the alternator and starter solenoid,
> >I'll have to mount it on the engine side of the firewall.
> >
> >I called Vision and they said not to mount it on the engine side of the
> >firewall because the sensor is only rated to 150 degrees. On the other hand,
> >numerous pictures of other people's airplanes show hall effect sensors for
> >many different engine monitors (including the VM-1000) mounted on the engine
> >side of the firewall.
> >
> >So what's the real story here?
>
> The story is that nobody has measured what the
> real working environment temperatures are in
> the proposed firewall mounting locations. Further,
> while the device is rated for 150F operating, transients
> of more than that (usually happen immediately following
> shutdown) won't kill it.
>
> Risks are low. Give it a try. Let's do some tests during
> your fly-off to KNOW what you're dealing with. One of the
> new products under development for the 'Connection website
> is a 4-channel, 10-bit, A/D converter that runs from the
> USB port of a laptop. We'll have a nice graphical user
> interface to go with it. The price will be VERY attractive.
> It's exactly what you need for this an other interesting
> and informative experiments. Perhaps you can be my beta-customer.
>
> In the mean time, anecdotal data suggest that the hall
> effect sensors live happily on the firewall as long as they
> don't get direct IR radiation from hot exhaust stacks.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: 12 Volt DC Bench Power Supply |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
I've been using a MFJ-4225 MV with good results . . . it's a switching
power supply . . . available from most armature radio stores. Astron
also make nice power supplies but there more money.
He the MFJ site / Pwr Supply
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-4225MV
Good Luck,
Bob is SE Iowa
On 2/3/06, J. Mcculley <mcculleyja@starpower.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>
>
> Can someone recommend a source/model of bench power supply using 110V AC
> input with 12V DC output, capable of up to 15 amps DC? Thanks,
>
> Jim McCulley
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: 12 Volt DC Bench Power Supply |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:50 PM 2/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley"
><mcculleyja@starpower.net>
>
>Can someone recommend a source/model of bench power supply using 110V AC
>input with 12V DC output, capable of up to 15 amps DC? Thanks,
>
>Jim McCulley
Do you really want 12v . . . or are you interested in
simulating an operating vehicle? 13.8v is a nominal bench
supply setting for emulating bus voltage. Here's a supply
I used to sell until they got so cheap that the margins
didn't fit my business model any more . . .
http://www.radiodan.com/misc/samlex1223.htm
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamps/3747.html
http://www.aaradio.com/cartfile/misc%20html/samlex.html
Bob . . .
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Hall effect current sensor location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:01 PM 2/3/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
>
>I have an EIS from Advanced Flight Systems . . . their instruction
>said the same thing and I had the same issue . . .
>
>When I asked them . . . their bigger concern was moisture but said it
>would be OK to mount it on the FW if I put it in a little enclosure to
>protect it. They didn't mention the heat issue . . . I'm sure things
>get warm especially on the ground on a hot day?!
>
>Good Luck,
>Bob
Interesting! Did they describe the enclosure that would
stand off moisture? I've got a bucket full of war stories
about various attempts and observations of the attempts of
others to deal with atmospheric moisture and moisture
sensitive electronics. Unless they described a very specific
technique for sealing the sensor from the environment, the
term "enclosure" would have been quite inadequate.
I'm 90% certain that these things will live under the cowl
just fine. We just need to do a little homework to confirm/
refine that perception.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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Subject: | Hall effect current sensor location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Rob Hickman of Advanced Flight Systems told me to "pot" the entire circuit
board with an electronic type RTV. Dan Checkoway has over 800 hours on his
done this way. His is in the engine compartment.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall effect current sensor location
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:01 PM 2/3/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
>
>I have an EIS from Advanced Flight Systems . . . their instruction
>said the same thing and I had the same issue . . .
>
>When I asked them . . . their bigger concern was moisture but said it
>would be OK to mount it on the FW if I put it in a little enclosure to
>protect it. They didn't mention the heat issue . . . I'm sure things
>get warm especially on the ground on a hot day?!
>
>Good Luck,
>Bob
Interesting! Did they describe the enclosure that would
stand off moisture? I've got a bucket full of war stories
about various attempts and observations of the attempts of
others to deal with atmospheric moisture and moisture
sensitive electronics. Unless they described a very specific
technique for sealing the sensor from the environment, the
term "enclosure" would have been quite inadequate.
I'm 90% certain that these things will live under the cowl
just fine. We just need to do a little homework to confirm/
refine that perception.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: Hall effect current sensor location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
> Interesting! Did they describe the enclosure that would
> stand off moisture? I've got a bucket full of war stories
> about various attempts and observations of the attempts of
> others to deal with atmospheric moisture and moisture
> sensitive electronics. Unless they described a very specific
> technique for sealing the sensor from the environment, the
> term "enclosure" would have been quite inadequate.
>
> I'm 90% certain that these things will live under the cowl
> just fine. We just need to do a little homework to confirm/
> refine that perception.
>
> Bob . . .
For one data point, I have had a Vision Micro Systems supplied hall effect
sensor mounted on an upper engine mount leg for 10 years and 700 hours with
no problems. We used two cushion clamps.
Dick Sipp
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