---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/10/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:12 AM - antennas (bob noffs) 2. 05:06 AM - Re: Icom A200-Help! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:59 AM - Re: antennas (Brian Lloyd) 4. 07:28 AM - antennas () 5. 07:41 AM - Re: antennas (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 07:43 AM - A Better PLB Web Site () 7. 08:36 AM - Re: Icom A200-Help! () 8. 08:57 AM - Electronics info needed (Randy & Linda Nelson) 9. 09:00 AM - Re: A Better PLB Web Site (Jim Baker) 10. 09:04 AM - Electronics info needed (Randy & Linda Nelson) 11. 09:06 AM - Re: antennas (Paul Wilson) 12. 10:22 AM - Re: Electronics info needed (Ron Russell Voyager Travel) 13. 10:51 AM - Re: Electronics info needed (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 14. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Bill Maxwell) 15. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Bill Denton) 16. 07:02 PM - Re: Avionics-List: A Better PLB Web Site (W J R HAMILTON) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:25 AM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: AeroElectric-List: antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" hi all, i have gotten quite a bit of info from the responses to my questions. i now am confident i can mount my comm antenna and transponder and they will work. the elt with a ground plane still has me stalled though. will have more questions about that , just wanted to let everyone know how helpful the responses were. gotta go make donuts now. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:05 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:26 AM 2/10/2006 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > > Got a 'net address for their published schematic? > > >I've scanned one here: > >http://rv8.ch/files/Icom%20IC-A200%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf > >Basically you want page 5. Sorry about the huge file size >for those of you not on broadband. It's about 6MB. Mmmm . . . pretty cryptic instructions. I'm not sure how the intercom feature works since they don't show how to hook up a second headset/mic circuit. And for a radio that draws 2.6A in transmit, the power and grounding requirements are a tad hyperbolic. They also call out requirements in the text that are not repeated/illustrated in the drawings. I'll study this a bit and see if I can unravel the "code" . . . Bob . . . < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:15 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > Guess I forgot to ask if you had a dual freq ELT . . . I guess all the > new ones are. The old ones are too. They operate at 121.5 MHz and 243 MHz. > In this case, the ground plane under a stock antenna is > necessary. But since it's a dual freq, one might argue that two sets of > radials would be good . . . one set tuned for 121.5 (24") and another > set optimized for 406 (7.3"). Hmmm . . . maybe a 7.3" radius piece of > copper foil with a few 20" legs soldered to the edge. The single dipole > I suggested would not be suited for dual frequency use (although one > COULD be crafted . . . it would probably be more trouble than it's worth). And a tuned 1/4 wave counterpoise (radials) for 121.5 MHz is totally useless at 243 MHz. Good point about having two sets of radials. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:56 AM PST US From: Cc: , Subject: AeroElectric-List: antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "bob noffs" 2/10/2006 Hello Bob, Dare I post some heresy? Will the gummint sic its watch dogs on me? Will the electromagnetic radiation purists on the list rise up in total fury to slap me down? Well, I'll take a chance. Suppose that the gummint, in its infinite wisdom, mandated that every aircraft carry 3 pounds of butter and a container of maple syrup just in case the survival situation after crashing resulted in a supply of pancakes as the available food supply. Would you insist on carrying genuine maple syrup or would an imitation be good enough for you? Maybe an ELT is a little more useful than butter and maple syrup in a crash situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't place my entire faith in being found and rescued in one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to carry. My point is that obsessing over antenna ground plane details is wasted time. Nobody knows exactly what attitude their aircraft will be in when it finishes crashing. The ELT antenna could end up pointing directly down at, and a few inches from, the surface of the earth. How much difference would a perfect ground plane, if one could construct one, make in that situation? Here is my thinking: 1) To be legal, buy one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to carry. Install it securely in the proper location in the proper attitude with regard to its deceleration sensor. Fasten on the wire antenna that came with the ELT and don't obsess over ground planes or what the antenna's attitude will be when you finish crashing. Go fly. 2) If you want to take some truly effective steps for rescue after crashing you can, and probably should to the degree that you are concerned and considering routes of flight, do some or all of the following. 2A) Always carry a hand held VHF comm radio with a battery supply that you KNOW to be capable of extended operation. 2B) Always carry a cell phone with a battery supply that you KNOW to be capable of extended operation. 2C) Purchase and carry a PLB http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp 2D) Carry a tough plastic container of water -- size your choice. My experience with even short time rescued people is that they experienced an almost mentally debilitating thirst shortly after crashing. 2E) Carry a knife of enough size and sturdiness to punch through / crack your plastic windows and canopy. I am sure that other posters will add their favorite / essential crash survival items, but obsessing over these items falls into the same category of time wasting like obsessing over ground planes. Take what you deem to be reasonable precautions to be rescued after a survivable crash and then proceed to fly worry and guilt free (and legal). OC PS: If you have the bank account to afford one of the new 406 Mhz ELT's, go for it. << hi all, I have several antennas to install. My elt requires a ground plane. Tim at b and c was very helpful with my questions but i question leads to 5 more. Is there any way around a ground plane for the elt? If not, any suggestions on how to make it in my wood/cloth fuselage? At first i thought numerous strips of thin copper way the way to go but that looks like just more fasteners. Can a very thin sheet be laid down in the fuse. bottom? It wouldnt exactly be flat with all the woodworking to go around.....skip.....Thanks in advance, bob noffs>> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:59 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning OC, I know the rules say no "me too" messages, but you have presented the same arguments that I would like to present, but was afraid to send due to the flaming I would get had I done so! Very well done. Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 2/10/2006 9:31:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, bakerocb@cox.net writes: 2/10/2006 Hello Bob, Dare I post some heresy? Will the gummint sic its watch dogs on me? Will the electromagnetic radiation purists on the list rise up in total fury to slap me down? Well, I'll take a chance. Suppose that the gummint, in its infinite wisdom, mandated that every aircraft carry 3 pounds of butter and a container of maple syrup just in case the survival situation after crashing resulted in a supply of pancakes as the available food supply. Would you insist on carrying genuine maple syrup or would an imitation be good enough for you? Maybe an ELT is a little more useful than butter and maple syrup in a crash situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't place my entire faith in being found and rescued in one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to carry. My point is that obsessing over antenna ground plane details is wasted time. Nobody knows exactly what attitude their aircraft will be in when it finishes crashing. The ELT antenna could end up pointing directly down at, and a few inches from, the surface of the earth. How much difference would a perfect ground plane, if one could construct one, make in that situation? Here is my thinking: 1) To be legal, buy one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to carry. Install it securely in the proper location in the proper attitude with regard to its deceleration sensor. Fasten on the wire antenna that came with the ELT and don't obsess over ground planes or what the antenna's attitude will be when you finish crashing. Go fly. 2) If you want to take some truly effective steps for rescue after crashing you can, and probably should to the degree that you are concerned and considering routes of flight, do some or all of the following. 2A) Always carry a hand held VHF comm radio with a battery supply that you KNOW to be capable of extended operation. 2B) Always carry a cell phone with a battery supply that you KNOW to be capable of extended operation. 2C) Purchase and carry a PLB http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp 2D) Carry a tough plastic container of water -- size your choice. My experience with even short time rescued people is that they experienced an almost mentally debilitating thirst shortly after crashing. 2E) Carry a knife of enough size and sturdiness to punch through / crack your plastic windows and canopy. I am sure that other posters will add their favorite / essential crash survival items, but obsessing over these items falls into the same category of time wasting like obsessing over ground planes. Take what you deem to be reasonable precautions to be rescued after a survivable crash and then proceed to fly worry and guilt free (and legal). OC ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:01 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: A Better PLB Web Site --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 2/10/2006 I wish that I had included this web site in my response to Bob Noffs' question about making a ground plane for an ELT antenna. http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html Here is an extract from that site regarding our currently government mandated ELT's: "Unfortunately, these have proven to be highly ineffective. They have a 97% false alarm rate, activate properly in only 12% of crashes, and provide no identification data." OC ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:54 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry: I agree with you that the diagram and instructions are not real clear, but I can help. What do you not understand. We can go over it pin by pin. First I have to admit you set-up does not make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand the use of two ICOM's A200, no intercom or audio panel. What kind of plane and use (VFR, IFR). I assume you have a one place plane because you really need a VOX intercom. The ICOM has an intercom but.... The built in intercom is really a super simple non-VOX button activated intercom that works independent of transmitting (ie either radio or intercom but not both at the same time, optional toggle switch needs to be installed.) As far as audio panel, when you have two COMs it is hard to get around but can be done with some simple switches, but you really are limiting the usefulness of two COM's. There are some cheap used audio panels on eBay. You could make a simple switch to select which radio you want to transmit on and feed one radio audio thru the aux input of the other, making one the "master". This is non-standard wiring. I understand the need to listen to two radios at one time, ATC and ATIS for example. However the elegant solution is the Apollo SL40 with two receivers built in, which allows listening to two freqs at the same time. Since you can only transmit on one Freq at a time why two radios. In the old days it was nice to have two radios, so you could store two freqs, one in each radio, but two radios is less an advantage with Flip flop freq features of new radios. The nice thing is to listen to two freqs which the single Apollo SL40 does. Don't get me wrong the ICOM is awesome, but do you really need two radios? If you do I would consider a audio panel. If you have a two place I would consider an intercom. PS engineering makes a cool little intercom, simple audio panel to handle just two coms. I sent you an off line email and we can talk about it. George (completed two ICOM A200 installations so I am an expert :-) ) From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Listers, This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear. The good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO) "wiring diagram" in their one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones we see on this list, so they must think we are incapable of reading a "real" one. Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this radio that I can beg, borrow, steal? My setup is with two of these radios, but with no audio panel. This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space, and $$$... Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:01 AM PST US From: "Randy & Linda Nelson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson" Hello to all. New to this list. I need some electronics type people to help on this one. I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel. I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under the rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump, which feeds into the Rh rear wing tank fuel line. The pump is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no longer works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a alternate/equivalent type switch. The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank is empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank. The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above. The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel switch and leave the pump running. So I would like the new switch setup to do the following . Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch . Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on , Pump starts to pump. Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After 25-30 min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel lines for this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a -4 line so it would be nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the tank faster.] The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off. Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have to reset the switch to start over. This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps I am ok with electronics and following a schematic and wiring it. I am a A+P and am working on my own plane. Thanks Randy N ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:48 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: A Better PLB Web Site --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > "Unfortunately, these have proven to be highly ineffective. They have > a 97% false alarm rate, activate properly in only 12% of crashes, and > provide no identification data." Not that it would, or could, ever make a difference....my lowly Bendix King KLX100 handheld GPS/Comm had a neat feature that, upon activation, broadcast, on 121.5, a 15 second voice message of your choice then followed that with a voice sythesized message of the unit's lat/lon. Same problems still inherent....I can imagine lying there having that thing broadcasting where I am and no one hearing it. I think I'll start carrying the butter and syrup. Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US From: "Randy & Linda Nelson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson" Hello to all. New to this list. I need some electronics type people to help on this one. I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel. I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under the rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump, which feeds into the Rh rear wing tank fuel line. The pump is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no longer works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a alternate/equivalent type switch. The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank is empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank. The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above. The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel switch and leave the pump running. So I would like the new switch setup to do the following . Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch . Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on , Pump starts to pump. Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After 25-30 min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel lines for this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a -4 line so it would be nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the tank faster.] The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off. Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have to reset the switch to start over. This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps I am ok with electronics and following a schematic and wiring it. I am a A+P and am working on my own plane. Thanks Randy N ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:32 AM PST US From: Paul Wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson Curious why you did not mention a sat phone? They save lives all the time all that is needed is a list of appropriate phone numbers. Cost is coming down all the time and even used hand sets are available. Save your self instead of depending on the system. Regards, Paul ============= At 02:28 AM 2/10/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > >Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "bob noffs" > > >2/10/2006 > >Hello Bob, Dare I post some heresy? Will the gummint sic its watch dogs on >me? Will the electromagnetic radiation purists on the list rise up in total >fury to slap me down? Well, I'll take a chance. > >Suppose that the gummint, in its infinite wisdom, mandated that every >aircraft carry 3 pounds of butter and a container of maple syrup just in >case the survival situation after crashing resulted in a supply of pancakes >as the available food supply. Would you insist on carrying genuine maple >syrup or would an imitation be good enough for you? > >Maybe an ELT is a little more useful than butter and maple syrup in a crash >situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't place my entire faith in being found >and rescued in one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to >carry. My point is that obsessing over antenna ground plane details is >wasted time. > >Nobody knows exactly what attitude their aircraft will be in when it >finishes crashing. The ELT antenna could end up pointing directly down at, >and a few inches from, the surface of the earth. How much difference would a >perfect ground plane, if one could construct one, make in that situation? > >Here is my thinking: > >1) To be legal, buy one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to >carry. Install it securely in the proper location in the proper attitude >with regard to its deceleration sensor. Fasten on the wire antenna that came >with the ELT and don't obsess over ground planes or what the antenna's >attitude will be when you finish crashing. Go fly. > >2) If you want to take some truly effective steps for rescue after crashing >you can, and probably should to the degree that you are concerned and >considering routes of flight, do some or all of the following. > >2A) Always carry a hand held VHF comm radio with a battery supply that you >KNOW to be capable of extended operation. > >2B) Always carry a cell phone with a battery supply that you KNOW to be >capable of extended operation. > >2C) Purchase and carry a PLB http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp > >2D) Carry a tough plastic container of water -- size your choice. My >experience with even short time rescued people is that they experienced an >almost mentally debilitating thirst shortly after crashing. > >2E) Carry a knife of enough size and sturdiness to punch through / crack >your plastic windows and canopy. > >I am sure that other posters will add their favorite / essential crash >survival items, but obsessing over these items falls into the same category >of time wasting like obsessing over ground planes. Take what you deem to be >reasonable precautions to be rescued after a survivable crash and then >proceed to fly worry and guilt free (and legal). > >OC > >PS: If you have the bank account to afford one of the new 406 Mhz ELT's, go >for it. > ><< hi all, I have several antennas to install. My elt requires a ground >plane. Tim at b and >c was very helpful with my questions but i question leads to 5 more. Is >there >any way around a ground plane for the elt? If not, any suggestions on how to >make it in my wood/cloth fuselage? At first i thought numerous strips of >thin >copper way the way to go but that looks like just more fasteners. Can a very >thin sheet be laid down in the fuse. bottom? It wouldnt exactly be flat with >all the woodworking to go around.....skip.....Thanks in advance, bob noffs>> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:13 AM PST US From: Ron Russell Voyager Travel Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Russell Voyager Travel I also have a 56 Tri-Pacer. The push pull switch is connected to a cable that operates a valve. This valve prevents the fuel in the wing tank from flowing to the aux. tank when the pump is off. If this valve is not closed and the pump is off I have seen fuel come out the Aux. fuel cap. Does your plane still have this mechanical valve? Ron Russell At 08:53 AM 2/10/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson" > > >Hello to all. New to this list. I need some electronics type people to help >on this one. >I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel. > > I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under the >rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump, which feeds >into the Rh rear wing tank fuel line. > >The pump is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no longer >works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a >alternate/equivalent type switch. > >The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank is >empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank. > >The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above. >The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel switch >and leave the pump running. > > So I would like the new switch setup to do the following . > >Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch . > > Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on , > > Pump starts to pump. > > Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After 25-30 >min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel lines for >this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a -4 line so it would be >nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the tank faster.] > >The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off. > > Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have to >reset the switch to start over. > > This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps > > I am ok with electronics and following a schematic and wiring it. > >I am a A+P and am working on my own plane. >Thanks > Randy N > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" So Facet pumps can now be used on certified aircraft?....Geee guess us experimental drivers are not so far out of line cus we've been using them for years!..:) The easiest option I see is a simple on/off switch ($2 from our local Bi mart..Knects stock them too I think they are Neilhoff brand or something....I been using a panel full of these for 6 years never had one go bad) and a LED potted for 12V (or do you run 24V?...In which case just plumb a resistor in line) to show you when you have the pump on. If the wing tank is bigger than your res tank just empty it and dump it all in there at once. There is a fuel pump minder cuircuit that will switch it off when it detects the electrical load has gone away...i.e when the res tank is empty...More functionality than I need however. Cheers Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy & Linda Nelson Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:02 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson" --> Hello to all. New to this list. I need some electronics type people to help on this one. I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel. I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under the rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump, which feeds into the Rh rear wing tank fuel line. The pump is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no longer works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a alternate/equivalent type switch. The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank is empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank. The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above. The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel switch and leave the pump running. So I would like the new switch setup to do the following . Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch . Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on , Pump starts to pump. Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After 25-30 min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel lines for this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a -4 line so it would be nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the tank faster.] The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off. Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have to reset the switch to start over. This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps I am ok with electronics and following a schematic and wiring it. I am a A+P and am working on my own plane. Thanks Randy N ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:58 PM PST US From: "Bill Maxwell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness. The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a toggle switch. Much better to use a DPDT push-button switch as the PTT. Wire the two headsets up to the intercom mic pin on the A200 using the NC switch contacts but with the PIC microphone being switched to the Comms mic pin on the A200 once the PTT is pressed. The co-pilot's mic is wired such that the PTT activation grounds it, while also taking the PTT pin on the A200 to ground, thus switching the radio from receive to transmit. All that is probably a little hard to follow and probably demonstrates why we use schematics? I have a smple schematic here somewhere, packed up among my yet to be sorted papers. I can probably find it if that would help. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:33 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Jerry: > > I agree with you that the diagram and instructions are not real clear, > but I can help. What do you not understand. We can go over it pin by pin. > > First I have to admit you set-up does not make a lot of sense to me. I > don't understand the use of two ICOM's A200, no intercom or audio panel. > > What kind of plane and use (VFR, IFR). I assume you have a one place > plane because you really need a VOX intercom. The ICOM has an intercom > but.... > > The built in intercom is really a super simple non-VOX button activated > intercom that works independent of transmitting (ie either radio or > intercom but not both at the same time, optional toggle switch needs to be > installed.) > > As far as audio panel, when you have two COMs it is hard to get around > but can be done with some simple switches, but you really are limiting the > usefulness of two COM's. There are some cheap used audio panels on eBay. > You could make a simple switch to select which radio you want to transmit > on and feed one radio audio thru the aux input of the other, making one > the "master". This is non-standard wiring. I understand the need to listen > to two radios at one time, ATC and ATIS for example. However the elegant > solution is the Apollo SL40 with two receivers built in, which allows > listening to two freqs at the same time. Since you can only transmit on > one Freq at a time why two radios. In the old days it was nice to have two > radios, so you could store two freqs, one in each radio, but two radios is > less an advantage with Flip flop freq features of new radios. The nice > thing is to listen to two freqs which the single Apollo SL40 does. > > Don't get me wrong the ICOM is awesome, but do you really need two > radios? If you do I would consider a audio panel. If you have a two place > I would consider an intercom. PS engineering makes a cool little intercom, > simple audio panel to handle just two coms. > > I sent you an off line email and we can talk about it. > > George (completed two ICOM A200 installations so I am an expert :-) ) > > From: Jerry2DT@aol.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help! > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > Listers, > > This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear. > The > good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO) "wiring diagram" in > their > one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones we see on this > list, so they must think we are incapable of reading a "real" one. > > Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this > radio that I can beg, borrow, steal? My setup is with two of these radios, > but > > with no audio panel. > This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space, > and $$$... > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:22 PM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" Has it been considered that the second radio might only be used for receive only monitoring? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Maxwell Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness. The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a toggle switch. Much better to use a DPDT push-button switch as the PTT. Wire the two headsets up to the intercom mic pin on the A200 using the NC switch contacts but with the PIC microphone being switched to the Comms mic pin on the A200 once the PTT is pressed. The co-pilot's mic is wired such that the PTT activation grounds it, while also taking the PTT pin on the A200 to ground, thus switching the radio from receive to transmit. All that is probably a little hard to follow and probably demonstrates why we use schematics? I have a smple schematic here somewhere, packed up among my yet to be sorted papers. I can probably find it if that would help. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:33 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Jerry: > > I agree with you that the diagram and instructions are not real clear, > but I can help. What do you not understand. We can go over it pin by pin. > > First I have to admit you set-up does not make a lot of sense to me. I > don't understand the use of two ICOM's A200, no intercom or audio panel. > > What kind of plane and use (VFR, IFR). I assume you have a one place > plane because you really need a VOX intercom. The ICOM has an intercom > but.... > > The built in intercom is really a super simple non-VOX button activated > intercom that works independent of transmitting (ie either radio or > intercom but not both at the same time, optional toggle switch needs to be > installed.) > > As far as audio panel, when you have two COMs it is hard to get around > but can be done with some simple switches, but you really are limiting the > usefulness of two COM's. There are some cheap used audio panels on eBay. > You could make a simple switch to select which radio you want to transmit > on and feed one radio audio thru the aux input of the other, making one > the "master". This is non-standard wiring. I understand the need to listen > to two radios at one time, ATC and ATIS for example. However the elegant > solution is the Apollo SL40 with two receivers built in, which allows > listening to two freqs at the same time. Since you can only transmit on > one Freq at a time why two radios. In the old days it was nice to have two > radios, so you could store two freqs, one in each radio, but two radios is > less an advantage with Flip flop freq features of new radios. The nice > thing is to listen to two freqs which the single Apollo SL40 does. > > Don't get me wrong the ICOM is awesome, but do you really need two > radios? If you do I would consider a audio panel. If you have a two place > I would consider an intercom. PS engineering makes a cool little intercom, > simple audio panel to handle just two coms. > > I sent you an off line email and we can talk about it. > > George (completed two ICOM A200 installations so I am an expert :-) ) > > From: Jerry2DT@aol.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help! > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > Listers, > > This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear. > The > good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO) "wiring diagram" in > their > one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones we see on this > list, so they must think we are incapable of reading a "real" one. > > Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this > radio that I can beg, borrow, steal? My setup is with two of these radios, > but > > with no audio panel. > This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space, > and $$$... > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:48 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics-List: A Better PLB Web Site Cc: , --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON Folks, See my previous post, I rest my case. Cheers, Bill Hamilton At 21:42 10/02/2006, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: >--> Avionics-List message posted by: > >2/10/2006 > >I wish that I had included this web site in my response to Bob Noffs' >question about making a ground plane for an ELT antenna. > >http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html > >Here is an extract from that site regarding our currently government >mandated ELT's: > >"Unfortunately, these have proven to be highly ineffective. They have a 97% >false alarm rate, activate properly in only 12% of crashes, and provide no >identification data." > >OC > > CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net. & . This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately to: Australia 61 (0)408 876 526 Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.