---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/12/06: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:26 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (sportav8r@aol.com) 2. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Ken) 3. 06:21 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (John D. Heath) 4. 07:32 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (John Schroeder) 5. 07:32 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (Ron) 6. 07:41 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (Ron) 7. 09:10 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (Lee Logan) 8. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (two radios, internal intercom and pin-out detail) () 9. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (Bill Denton) 10. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Bobs diagram errata, ICOM corrections) () 11. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (David Lloyd) 12. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (John Schroeder) 13. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (Bruce Gray) 14. 09:55 AM - Re: Icom A200-Help! (Mike Lehman) 15. 10:36 AM - King KT - 76 Transponder "Reply" light question.... (David Lloyd) 16. 10:36 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (Steven DiNieri) 17. 12:37 PM - Re: A200-Help (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 12:37 PM - (mchristian@canetics.com) 19. 12:42 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (chaztuna@adelphia.net) 20. 12:52 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (Brian Lloyd) 22. 01:41 PM - Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (BobsV35B@aol.com) 23. 02:32 PM - Re: Crimp or Solder ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 24. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: A200-Help (Bill Denton) 25. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: A200-Help (Ken) 26. 04:05 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay (Ron) 27. 05:46 PM - Re: 3.5 MM stereo plug (Steven Anderson) 28. 08:19 PM - TURBOCAD (RV4WGH@aol.com) 29. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: antennas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 30. 08:46 PM - Re: High temperature epoxy for ungrounded thermocouple probe (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 31. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 32. 10:33 PM - Panel lighting questions (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 33. 10:51 PM - Re: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 (Brian Lloyd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:58 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Ron, you mentioned reversing a motor... can't be done with a SPDT Bosch relay. You'll need two poles, in your case that's two relays. "Armature" is the coil, the part that gets current flow through it to pull the relay closed. The common contact is, I believe, #30, and the others are the N.O. and N.C. contacts. If that's beyond what you can follow, you are definitely going to need a picture (schematuc) to look at. Ditto for the DC motor reversing concept. -Bill B -----Original Message----- From: Ron Sent: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:16:16 -0800 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" John, thanks for the reply however do you mean if I put my ground to 30, one lead from the motor to 85 and the other to 86, then what do I do with 87 and 87a? Ron -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John D. Heath Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Ron, Remember Europeans switch everything to ground, 30 is always ground no matter what the circuit. 85 and 86 are the armature or coil. 87 is normally open to 30 and 87a is normally closed to 30. John D. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:43 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken I thought that too until I powered it up and then opened the case to check the light bulbs. My unit was purchased last April but I doubt that there is more than one version of lighting. Not the greatest instructions. Ken Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken >> >>It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually >>feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed >>that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient. >>Ken >> >> > > From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions, > it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half > bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone > have better data than that? > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:35 AM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Ron, No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are all the switch. 87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30. Don,t try to say that too fast. :~p For what you want to do you need two relays. John D. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Ron - I have a schematic for running the flap motor of our Lancair ES. It is a reversing scheme using two relays. It is in .pdf format. Let me know if you want it and I'll email it to you. Cheers, John. > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > Ron, > > No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a > are > all the switch. 87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is > applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30. Don,t > try > to say that too fast. :~p For what you want to do you need two relays. > > John D. > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:59 AM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" Thanks all for the replies, I will try that today. I did buy 6 of the relays. Ron T -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John D. Heath Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:19 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Ron, No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are all the switch. 87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30. Don,t try to say that too fast. :~p For what you want to do you need two relays. John D. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:32 AM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" John, thanks for being so patient with me, I tried it that way on the bench and it works just like you said. Ron T -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John D. Heath Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:19 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Ron, No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are all the switch. 87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30. Don,t try to say that too fast. :~p For what you want to do you need two relays. John D. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:37 AM PST US From: Lee Logan Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights. Assuming you're not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one. Do you suppose my US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate? I have a fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC. My Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US. Go figure. Are others relying on their cell phones? If 12% effectiveness is an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down, warts and all. ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones, right? Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from the ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your person? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:43 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (two radios, internal intercom and pin-out detail) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icoma20035xz.jpg Here is my pin out explanation of the ICOM A200. The second diagram shows the installation wiring if you utilize the internal intercom. http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blockicoma5sy.jpg This is my idea for wiring in two ICOM A200 with out audio panel. The first uses a $9.00 audio mixer and a few toggles to select audio. The second is easy, with just feeding the "B" radio thru the "A" radio, but requires you to use the volume controls to select which radio audio to listen to. George --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:46 AM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" "Assuming you're not incapacitated..." That's an awfully broad assumption, but it doesn't apply to an ELT. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lee Logan Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights. Assuming you're not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one. Do you suppose my US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate? I have a fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC. My Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US. Go figure. Are others relying on their cell phones? If 12% effectiveness is an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down, warts and all. ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones, right? Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from the ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your person? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:29 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Bobs diagram errata, ICOM corrections) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob, very nice diagrams, much nicer than mine. Two comments..... "I'd intended to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page 2." Regarding comment about speaker dummy load - I called ICOM and they told me emphatically that it was not necessary to connect anything to the speaker load, so your diagram is correct. Other than that I think we had similar ideas. The second item is the internal back light. You show it connect to the nav lights as ON and OFF deal. It does seem like this from the text, like it is a ON/half/OFF deal from the text. Again a call to ICOM says back lighting is affected by voltage. In other words light intensity is variable and proportional when connected to a variable voltage. ICOM errata: The previous post that ICOM shows the incorrect optional switches for the Yoke mounted channel and frequency exchange switches, I believe they have corrected it. They show spring loaded DTSP toggle, normally in center open position and momentary to ground pin L or 12. The optional switch choice is two single momentary SPST switches to ground. George ---------------------- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote: A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy. The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions. I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's posted at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted errors, I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd intended to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page 2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be fixed in several places. Bob . . . --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:29 AM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" We just had a recent incident where carrying a cell phone saved the day. A pilot just got an Arrow out of maintenance and was flying back to our field. On calling in he noted that he had no comm's and little or no battery or charge. He also could not get 3 lights on his gear down. He flew over the field several times and used his cell phone to call the FBO phone to explain his problem. The FBO had a guy standing next to the strip to monitor his gear extension. It looked like the main gear was down but, the nose was not. Between the two and making multiple slow passes over the field he was able to shake the nose gear down and via the cell phone figures he had the best info that he was going to get. Luckily, the Piper gear is a gravity down gear. He probably made the most perfect greased landing and held the nose gear off as long as possible. Then, did something that I thought was pretty smart. He coasted to a full stop and made the most gently of taxi turns just in case one of the mains was not really over center and locked. It would be pretty bad to make a perfect landing and then, taxi turn too abrupt and collapse a main gear from sideloads. All done with the help of a cell phone. D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Logan" Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan > > > I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights. Assuming > you're > not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has > voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one. Do you suppose my > US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable > addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate? I have > a > fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC. My > Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US. Go > figure. Are others relying on their cell phones? If 12% effectiveness is > an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down, > warts and all. > > ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones, > right? Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from > the > ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your > person? > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Lee - You make this implicit assumption on which to base an argument to change the FAA's mind: "I am conscious and able to turn on my blackberry or cell phone, and to connect and to describe my location ... ". If you are not capable of the above and need rescue to stay alive, or your family needs your body for closure, the whole process needs to be automatic and more accurate. That's the answer the FAA will send back. Now, how to do what they want in a way that will be far more reliable than the method mandated now, and will not break our banks, is the problem at hand. There is a much better solution, but it costs a lot more and so far, a lot of folks have rejected it because of cost. John Schroeder On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 12:05:05 -0500, Lee Logan wrote: > ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones, > right? Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from > the ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your > person? -- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:44 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" As macabre as it may sound, they need to be able to find the bodies. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Logan Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights. Assuming you're not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one. Do you suppose my US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate? I have a fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC. My Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US. Go figure. Are others relying on their cell phones? If 12% effectiveness is an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down, warts and all. ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones, right? Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from the ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your person? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:34 AM PST US From: "Mike Lehman" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Lehman" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken > >It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually >feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed >that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient. >Ken From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions, it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone have better data than that? Bob . . . My experience with 2 Icom A200 installs (one TSO'd and one non-TSO'd) is that the radio lighting will dim with the instrument panel light rheostat control. It never occurred to me to connect it any other way. Mike ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:19 AM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: AeroElectric-List: King KT - 76 Transponder "Reply" light question.... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" My KT-76TSO transponder reply light has always been too dim. This reply indicator is controlled by a light sensor resistance device. Is there a way to adjust its sensitivity...??? The transponder is center stack mounted and near the bottom. I believe that it is interpreting that it is evening or night and lowers the illumination. I can shine a flash light into the photo sensor and get a much brighter reply indicator. I don't want to yank it out without someone telling me where to look for the adjustment. Thanks, David ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:19 AM PST US From: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri" Here's a neat little pdf that shows some cool relay setups. The reverse pole stuff that would pertain to a reversing motor is on the last two pages.. Steve dinieri http://www.tune-town.com/relays.pdf I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the web to no avail. There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry for being so electronically dump. http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:50 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:47 AM 2/12/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > >Bob, very nice diagrams, much nicer than mine. Two comments..... > > "I'd intended to show how to "dummy load" the speaker >output with an inset on page 2." > >Regarding comment about speaker dummy load - I called ICOM and >they told me emphatically that it was not necessary to connect >anything to the speaker load, so your diagram is correct. Other than >that I think we had similar ideas. Very good. I've deleted that feature from Note 3. > >The second item is the internal back light. You show it connect to the >nav lights as ON and OFF deal. It does seem like this from the >text, like it is a ON/half/OFF deal from the text. Again a call to ICOM >says back lighting is affected by voltage. In other words light intensity >is variable and proportional when connected to a variable voltage. Hmmmm . . . it would be nice then if they'd included the the current draw of this lead for allowing one to size their dimmer requirements. If you or anyone else can provide a full-bright dimmer lead load value, I'd be pleased to add it to the drawings. > > > ICOM errata: >The previous post that ICOM shows the incorrect optional >switches for the Yoke mounted channel and frequency exchange >switches, I believe they have corrected it. They show spring >loaded DTSP toggle, normally in center open position and >momentary to ground pin L or 12. The optional switch choice is >two single momentary SPST switches to ground. Yeah, the ICOM data I found seemed to have the wiring right. I just showed the spring-loaded-center-off version. I'll hold off posting Rev -B- with hopes that someone can get a dimmer load current value. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:51 PM PST US From: mchristian@canetics.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mchristian@canetics.com I have the TCM IO240-B3B in my Shekari. I have tried three fuel pumps and finally am ending up with the facet 40107. The reason I have tried three pumps was due to lack of sufficient information regarding the Fuel Injection sytem design and fuel requirements of the engine. I learned by trial and error with a little help: an electric pump putting out 3psi and 30gph wouldn't make any pressure at the fuel distributor (too much pressure loss in the system). I then tried a FI pump putting out 45psi and 45gph (thinking I could possible regulate it down); this overpowered my gascolator which had to be replaced. Too much pressure and flow caused priming issues and would result in difficulty running the engine on the pump due to overrich conditions - based on the metering. This could have been rectified with a bypass type regulator, but I didn't want to add complexity to the fuel system. I ended up checking all facet pump types and settled on the 40107 because: no check or anti -siphon valves, 7-10psi and 30gph. I prime for three second at 3psi showing on the fuel distributor. The engine starts right up. Not sure how it works at keeping the engine running (I suspect insufficient pressure). I think the reason Diamond went to the Dukes was because there were some early issues with mechnaical fuel pumps on these engines. They had a priming solution with teh Facets but no backup for sustaining flight. They found a solution in the Dukes that can perform both. Reagrds, Mike ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:43 PM PST US From: chaztuna@adelphia.net Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay Cc: Ron --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: chaztuna@adelphia.net Ron Where did you buy them. Waytek Wire has great prices on Genuine Bosch "ice cube" relays (and the mounting sockets for them). See http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0A298B332B9408002F3F051+M37+ENG Charlie Kuss ---- Ron wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" > > Thanks all for the replies, I will try that today. I did buy 6 of the > relays. > > Ron T > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John D. > Heath > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:19 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > Ron, > > No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are > all the switch. 87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is > applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30. Don,t try > to say that too fast. :~p For what you want to do you need two relays. > > John D. > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:19 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:05 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" > >I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not >understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the web >to no avail. There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use >this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will >have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry >for being so electronically dump. > >http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html See drawings in the package at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps.pdf Sheet 3 or 4 is probably what you want. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:58 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Lee Logan wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan > > I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights. Assuming you're > not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has > voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one. Do you suppose my > US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable > addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate? All of our cellular telephone technology (and in this I include PCS, 3G, and EvDO) is based on relatively short-range radio technology. There has to be a "cell tower" within about three miles to ensure service. If you land where there is a cell tower within three miles you are already where people are. If you land somewhere where you really need service because there is no one around, you won't have cellular service. No, you can't count on cellular service as a back-up. A hand-held satellite phone is another story. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:41 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Afternoon Brian, That handheld satellite phone sounds interesting. Would you be able to expand on the availability and the costs involved in such a unit? Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 2/12/2006 3:30:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, brian-yak@lloyd.com writes: All of our cellular telephone technology (and in this I include PCS, 3G, and EvDO) is based on relatively short-range radio technology. There has to be a "cell tower" within about three miles to ensure service. If you land where there is a cell tower within three miles you are already where people are. If you land somewhere where you really need service because there is no one around, you won't have cellular service. No, you can't count on cellular service as a back-up. A hand-held satellite phone is another story. -- Brian Lloyd ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimp or Solder ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:47 PM 2/11/2006 -0900, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Totten > > >Can anyone tell me the standard for aircraft wiring - Crimp >or Solder? See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Crimp_vs_Solder_and_other_nagging_questions.pdf for an updated article on this and other issues. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:55 PM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" Bob... I'm not 1,000% sure of this but it seems like I read somewhere that the actual current for the lighting comes from the +14 power lead, and the voltage fed to the "dimmer" pin is just a small control voltage, with very little current draw. Again, not 1,000% sure on this... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:33 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:47 AM 2/12/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > >Bob, very nice diagrams, much nicer than mine. Two comments..... > > "I'd intended to show how to "dummy load" the speaker >output with an inset on page 2." > >Regarding comment about speaker dummy load - I called ICOM and >they told me emphatically that it was not necessary to connect >anything to the speaker load, so your diagram is correct. Other than >that I think we had similar ideas. Very good. I've deleted that feature from Note 3. > >The second item is the internal back light. You show it connect to the >nav lights as ON and OFF deal. It does seem like this from the >text, like it is a ON/half/OFF deal from the text. Again a call to ICOM >says back lighting is affected by voltage. In other words light intensity >is variable and proportional when connected to a variable voltage. Hmmmm . . . it would be nice then if they'd included the the current draw of this lead for allowing one to size their dimmer requirements. If you or anyone else can provide a full-bright dimmer lead load value, I'd be pleased to add it to the drawings. > > > ICOM errata: >The previous post that ICOM shows the incorrect optional >switches for the Yoke mounted channel and frequency exchange >switches, I believe they have corrected it. They show spring >loaded DTSP toggle, normally in center open position and >momentary to ground pin L or 12. The optional switch choice is >two single momentary SPST switches to ground. Yeah, the ICOM data I found seemed to have the wiring right. I just showed the spring-loaded-center-off version. I'll hold off posting Rev -B- with hopes that someone can get a dimmer load current value. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:33 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken That would be 300 mA at 13.8 volts. I ended up with a 3 position toggle switch and a couple of resistors for dim-off-bright on mine. Ken Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: snip > I'll hold off posting Rev -B- with hopes that someone can > get a dimmer load current value. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:45 PM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" Thanks Bob and all the rest, If I don't get it right after all the help you guys gave me I better quit. Ron Triano http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:05 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" > >I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not >understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the web >to no avail. There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use >this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will >have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry >for being so electronically dump. > >http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html See drawings in the package at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps.pdf Sheet 3 or 4 is probably what you want. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:49 PM PST US From: "Steven Anderson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 3.5 MM stereo plug --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steven Anderson" I am wiring in a Garmin 396 and Roady 2 to my Garmin audio panel. I have a switch STTP (single throw, triple pole). Anyway on my 3.5 mm stereo plug, I assume the nearest to the tip is left channel, the next area of the plug is right channel, the nearest area to the root of the plug is ground. Is there any info on wiring up a 3.5 mm stereo plug? Thanks. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:09 PM PST US From: RV4WGH@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: TURBOCAD --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RV4WGH@aol.com COMPUSA has TurboCad Designer on sale for $9.99 after rebate in this coming week's ad. Wally Hunt Rockford, IL ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:02 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" > > >The problem of the ELT anntenna in a wood and fabric plane, or a composite >one, is discussed in Jim Weir's RST anntenna book. He suggests two >dipoles, driven by the same coax, and that is what I plan to do. The >ground plane is best suited for an aluminum plane. The configuration >looks like the letter X with one pair of legs about 1/3 of the other. I >don't recall the exact dimenions, something on the order of 7 inches and >21 inches. Jim Weir suggests copper tape, but I prefer 0.032 or 0.016 >thick brass as being much easier to handle and solder. This is available >in the hardware store in widths of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch. Best to >tune this with an antenna analyser, of course. > >Jim Foerster, J400, wiring That would work too. Thanks for tossing that into the pile! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" thermocouple probe Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: High temperature epoxy for ungrounded thermocouple probe --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" thermocouple probe At 04:48 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" > > >Listers: > >I have a Jabiru 3300 6 cylinder engine that uses spark plugs with a thread >diameter of 0.645 inches. I wish to use ring terminals of 3/8 inch >diameter drilled out to 15/32=3D0.4688 inches. (Using a Unibit will allow >a clean cut.) This will center the probe more accurately than some >commercial probes, and it allows me to make my thermocouples using type J >wire that I bought from Omega. I don't want any splices, and will custom >fit each wire, with an appropriate service loop. > >My question is this. I wish to insulate the 1/4 inch or less soldered end >of the thermocouple. Should I use a bit of tefzel insulation, or plumbing >Teflon tape? Is there a thin ceramic that is used that I never heard >of? The main question is what sort of potting compound to use. I haven't >researched high temperature epoxy yet, and would appreciate any >suggestions. I am using a thermocouple amplifier, and a grounded >thermocouple will not work well at all. Last time I needed to instrument an engine, I used the AD594 style chips and grounded thermocouples. I used a separate wire to crankcase to take the -VS, +Vs midpoint ground to the crankcase. Common mode on the chips is more than capable of working this way as long as you strap the signal ground to the engine. When you use grounded thermocouples, there are no concerns about any common-mode noises (or differential for that matter, t/c's are VERY low impedance sources) . . . so concerns about proximity to other wires including spark plug wires is nil. The hard part is arranging for the crankcase ground reference. For a permanently installed instrumentation system, you might have to figure out a way to "float" the T/C signal conditioners . . . or simply use crankcase for ALL instrument system grounds. If you must insulate the T/C, I think I'd dip them in a high-temp epoxy like JB Weld. Put a couple of thin coats on each T/C before using JB weld to cement it into the barrel of the terminal. See: http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php This is pretty amazing stuff . . . in spite of it's metal bearing properties, it's still and insulator and rated for up to 500F. Now, if you float the T/C's at the engine, I recommend you tie a pair of 100 ohm resistors from each leg of the amplifier chip to signal ground. This gives you a very low common mode impedance to signal ground and has no effect on accuracy of measurements over the short distances encountered in small aircraft. Bob . . . < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:14 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 02:39 PM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" > > >I was an Icom dealer at the time I got my service Manual but I suggest that >you contact Icom US and ask for a copy. I suspect they will know who you >are and of your influence in our movement. If not, they would be well >advised to find out! > >I'll take a look at your drawing after I clear this email backlog. Take a peek at the dimming input. Can you confirm that it simply drive panel lamps? Also, does it call out normal input current to this pin? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:56 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel lighting questions --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Trying to resolve some nagging instrument lighting control issues here: 1) MAC (?Ray Allen?) trim servo position INDICATOR(LED bar graph type). The MAC drawings show a white wire (used for dimming control) connected to the INPUT side of the aircraft's dimmer pot (the side of the pot connected to +12 volts). Is this diagram correct and do I have to connect this wire to the input side of the dimmer control? Or can I connect it to the OUTPUT side of a B&C solid state dimmer? The connection drawing also shows separate power and ground connections to the indicator so I'm not sure if the dimming action needs a variable resistance to ground or a variable input voltage!? Also...anyone know how much current these draw at full intensity? 2)Mid Content Instruments MD200-306 VOR/ILS indicator internal light dimming. Thanks for giving me the scoop on the connections here. NOW.....I need to know how much current the internal lighting needs at maximum brightness. Anybody know the answer to this one? Can't seem to locate an answer in the manual I have. I need to know this so I can determine the current capacity of the dimming control circuit. 3) Electronic International FL-2CA fuel gauge (capacitive fuel sensing with display of 2 tanks at once) has both LEDs (which form an analog bar graph to show fuel levels in both tanks simultaneously) and an LCD digital readout (which can be switched between each tank to give a digital indication of fuel remaining). The instructions show a connection to the dimming control that allows varying the intensity of the LED bar graph lights. The LCD backlight shows only a +12 volt connection with no dimming capability. For those of you that have one of these gauges, could a dimmer be connected to the LCD backlight 12 volt input to provide a dimming of the LCD backlight? Is dimming the LCD backlight worth-wile or even needed at all? Or..have you just connect the +12 volts and lived with the LCD backlight being on all the time? Also for the LED bar graphs that are dimmable...does anyone know if that takes a variable voltage input (ala B&C dimmer controller)or do I need a variable resistance to ground? 4)For dimming control on the EZ Pilot and AFS AOA indicators, a momentary push button switch is used that temporarily grounds one pin on the connector. Is there a way to control these two instruments with an potentiometer style instrument panel dimmer control or do we have to use the buttons? Is such precise dimming control of these instruments worth-wile or even needed at all? 5)Non related to panel lights but related to Lightspeed Plasma II+ electronic ignition. I got this one because it uses the aircraft style key switch to turn it on and off. I didn't find any key switch depicted or specified in the manual. I'm using the STD aircraft A510 key switch that grounds the P leads to shutoff the mags (I have one mag on the left side). Is this the correct switch or do I need a car style that makes a connection to enable the electronic ignition? I would also like to install an annunciator light that will turn on when I have the ignition turned on at the key switch and turn off when the key is off...anyone done this or know how to accomplish it? Thanks much. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Autocad-21 drawings so far ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:31 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > > Good Afternoon Brian, > > > That handheld satellite phone sounds interesting. Would you be able to > expand on the availability and the costs involved in such a unit? Well, you can do a search with Google to find sources. I just entered "satellite phone" as my search string and came up with the information you are seeking. The two system with which I am familiar are Iridium and Globalstar. The seem quite pricey when compared to cellular/PCS service here in the US but the key is that they work just about anywhere in the world (Iridium) with no roaming charges. OTOH they cost like paying roaming charges for normal service. Expect to pay about $1(US) per minute for air time. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery