Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Dampening circuit request (Fox5flyer)
2. 05:20 AM - Re: Dampening circuit request (Mickey Coggins)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: Dampening circuit request (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: Dampening circuit request (Ken)
5. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: George (Harold)
6. 11:06 AM - Re: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI (czechsix@juno.com)
7. 01:22 PM - Strange people behavior in debate ()
8. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: George (Peter Laurence)
9. 02:02 PM - Re: Strange people behavior in debate (BPA)
10. 02:25 PM - Changing the mag switches out for emag and pmag (sparrowhawk2@mac.com)
11. 03:00 PM - Re: Strange people behavior in debate (B Tomm)
12. 04:06 PM - Re: GEORGE (Rodney Dunham)
13. 04:24 PM - Re: George (Rodney Dunham)
14. 07:20 PM - Nuckoll-Heads (Richard Sipp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Dampening circuit request |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Time: 06:52:51 AM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: dampening circuit request
Hi gurus of electrons,
As I mentioned in another thread, I want to have
a sensor that tells me when my coolant level is
too low.
I've ordered a Gems Sensors ELS-900, 12 VDC, Dry,
1/4" NPT, $54, part number 205300:
http://www.gemssensors.com/SpecTemplateStandard.asp?nProductGroupID=3D307
which is basically an optical on/off switch when it
goes from wet to dry. When the coolant is sloshing
around in the tank I suspect that my warning lamp
will be flickering on and off. Does anyone know of a
very simple way I could "dampen" this so that the
warning light will only come on if the sensor goes
dry for some period of time?
Thanks,
Mickey
Not trying to dampen anything here Mickey, but why are you trying to fix a problem
that you don't even know that you have? Seems to me it would be best to just
fly the airplane and if it appears that a fix is needed then deal with it
as necessary.
Deke
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dampening circuit request |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> Not trying to dampen anything here Mickey, but why are you trying to
> fix a problem that you don't even know that you have? Seems to me it
> would be best to just fly the airplane and if it appears that a fix
> is needed then deal with it as necessary.
Hi Deke,
Not a bad idea. I was hoping that the response to my
question would be something along the lines of
"Heck, everyone knows you slap a 99 cent flux capacitor
between the alpha and the gamma leads of your sensor,
and that dampens it for ya."
I'm pedaling as fast as I can on this electronics stuff!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dampening circuit request |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:15 PM 3/2/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> > Not trying to dampen anything here Mickey, but why are you trying to
> > fix a problem that you don't even know that you have? Seems to me it
> > would be best to just fly the airplane and if it appears that a fix
> > is needed then deal with it as necessary.
>
>Hi Deke,
>
>Not a bad idea. I was hoping that the response to my
>question would be something along the lines of
>"Heck, everyone knows you slap a 99 cent flux capacitor
>between the alpha and the gamma leads of your sensor,
>and that dampens it for ya."
>
>I'm pedaling as fast as I can on this electronics stuff!
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 finishing
Deke's point is well taken. I'm not convinced that
any auxiliary circuitry beyond perhaps the latching
relay is called for. With low fuel warnings (a commodity
that is used up EVERY flight) monitored by floats driving
analog gages, the gages are often lubricated with
50,000 centistoke silicon oil. The gage is fully free to
move on lubricated pivots but is damped to the extreme by
the very viscous oil. This is why most folks are unaware
of how variable the signal is coming in from the potentiometer
on the float . . . If you're in very rough air, the voltage
could be very hard to interpret without dampening systems
of some type.
In the case of your coolant warning, it's a small tank.
You're also monitoring a fluid level that is expected to
be fixed well above the warning point for all phases
of all flights. The fact that you get any warning
(flickering or not) is like the low voltage, low vacuum,
low oil pressure, etc lights coming on. At this point,
filtering or dampening for the purpose of having an orderly
behavior of lights on the panel is a secondary concern.
It's an event that should not be happening and demands
attention.
My sense is that the photo/optical sensor you've ordered
will work just fine. Go ahead and stick it through the
tank wall as planned. I doubt that you're going to
discover some operational quirks that demand extraordinary
signal conditioning.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dampening circuit request |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Hi Mickey
Deke has echoed my thoughts.
I'm enjoying following this thread but having spent a couple of years
converting a Subaru and obsessing too much over various issues, this one
really doesn't sound like it is worth worrying about. I'd also just put
the sensor somewhere in the bottom third of the tank and fly it. The
liquid level will rise as the coolant heats up of course. Each to his
own but I'm finding that my simplest solutions are turning out to be the
best and have the least complications. I used a 0 to 28 psi pressure
sensor with an EIS 4000 and initial ground running looks like it is
going to work very well for a coolant loss monitor for me. It seems to
largely track the coolant temperature so far. I did use a
semi-transparent plastic reservoir from a Volvo so that the preflight
level can be checked so that might be why I'm less concerned about
monitoring the exact level.
Ken
Fox5flyer wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>Time: 06:52:51 AM PST US
>From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: dampening circuit request
>Hi gurus of electrons,
>As I mentioned in another thread, I want to have
>a sensor that tells me when my coolant level is
>too low.
>
>I've ordered a Gems Sensors ELS-900, 12 VDC, Dry,
>1/4" NPT, $54, part number 205300:
>
>http://www.gemssensors.com/SpecTemplateStandard.asp?nProductGroupID=3D307
>
>which is basically an optical on/off switch when it
>goes from wet to dry. When the coolant is sloshing
>around in the tank I suspect that my warning lamp
>will be flickering on and off. Does anyone know of a
>very simple way I could "dampen" this so that the
>warning light will only come on if the sensor goes
>dry for some period of time?
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>Not trying to dampen anything here Mickey, but why are you trying to fix a problem
that you don't even know that you have? Seems to me it would be best to
just fly the airplane and if it appears that a fix is needed then deal with it
as necessary.
>Deke
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold" <kayce33@earthlink.net>
AMEN,
Harold
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>
Hi Doug,
My RV is setup for day/night VFR and I have dual Lightspeeds. I pondered the electrical
system options extensively. I originally planned to go with two alternators
and one battery. The thing I kept coming back to is that with one battery,
you have a single-point failure for the entire electrical system. Notwithstanding
the opinion of others to the contrary, it IS possible to have a battery
lead break off or come loose. I know people who've had their car quit because
of this. I don't know anyone who has had their Lycoming quit from this--yet--but
one of the guys on the Aeroelectric List a couple years back did have a battery
lead break (in his case it did not result in engine failure, but if he
had been using a single battery architecture with dual elec igntion, it would
have!). People can argue that it was improper installation or poor maintenance
and that's fine, but it has happened and I prefer to design out the possibility
in my airplane. Even with dual alternators, if the backup alternator is off
and you lose connection to the battery, the alternator is not self-exciting for
startup so it does you no good (or at least I wouldn't bank on it). So you
lose everything including the engine at that point. I was not personally comfortable
with this setup in my plane and decided to go with single alternator, dual
battery setup instead.
Another advantage to the dual battery setup is that you can avoid the perceived
weakness in the Lightspeed system with the Skytec starter that has resulted in
damaging kickback with more than one installation. I won't get into the causes
and fixes and who's-to-blame thing, but if you have a small backup battery
that is isolated from the rest of the elec system, you can use it to power one
ignition while cranking the engine from the main battery. This is exactly what
I do on my plane with great results so far...I turn on only the ignition powered
by the backup battery, leaving the main one off. Crank it and it starts great
(even in winter in Iowa, with no primer system). Then I switch on the main
ignition and I'm good to go with no chance of kickback from low voltages on
the Lightspeed...
I wired mine pretty much like Klaus shows with a Schottky diode in between to isolate
the backup battery from the rest of the elec system. I elected not to put
in a switch like Klaus shows to switch the ignition between main and backup...I
didn't see an advantage to it and didn't want to be flipping switches to
get my engine started again (would prefer it doesn't quit to begin with!). I simply
wired my second igntion directly to the +/- terminals of the backup battery.
The main ignition is likewise wired directly to the +/- terminals of the
main battery. The only other thing I have connected to the backup battery is a
voltmeter just so I can monitor it (note: in my case the path to the voltmeter
is switched on/off with the ignition....this is because the voltmeter draws
a small current, so if you wired it always-on it would drain the battery while
the airplane is powered down).
I used a PowerSonic 2.9 Ah battery (PS-1229). It's light and relatively cheap (I
think about $25-30...you can Google it and get lots of hits). I plan to change
the battery every two years to ensure that it's reasonably fresh. I know Klaus
says 4.5 Ah but I thought that was overkill (unless you plan to be flying
over some really rugged terrain/ocean with no alternates within an hour or two
of flight). The 2.9 Ah batt is theoretically good for almost 3 hours of run time
on one ignition (drawing ~ 1A at cruise RPM's). In the unlikely event that
I ever find myself operating the engine soley on the backup battery, I will try
to have it on the ground within an hour. Remember, if you're flying in that
condition it means you've lost everything else in your panel so you're probably
not going to be wanting to continue a long XC under those circumstances! If
I upgrade to IFR I'll put the backup battery in the Dynon and make sure I have
fresh batteries in my handheld comm and GPS.
One nice thing about the PS-1229 is that it can fit into the standard Vans battery
tray along with an Odyssey PC-680. I have the PC-680 at the back of the tray
against the firewall and a piece of angle in front of it (to keep it from sliding
forward). The PS-1229 is in the front of the tray. There is about 3/4"
of space between the two so any sort of melt down/overheat condition of one battery
won't take out the other one.
FWIW, I made up a quick checklist in my POH for main alternator failure. If the
main alternator quits and I plan to continue my flight for over an hour, I will
turn OFF my backup-powered ignition to save the battery just in case it's needed.
I will continue to planned destination running the main igntion and reduced
panel loads (e-bus) and only turn the backup ignition ON when approaching
to land. This way if the main battery craps out on me prior to arrival at my
destination I will be able to keep the engine running with the fully-charged backup
system.
Some may say my setup is overkill, others will think it's inadequate. But it's
my airplane and this setup is one that I'm very comfortable with.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 8.3 hours...
Subject: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
From: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
Hi Doug,
My RV is setup for day/night VFR and I have dual Lightspeeds. I pondered the electrical
system options extensively. I originally planned to go with two alternators
and one battery. The thing I kept coming back to is that with one battery,
you have a single-point failure for the entire electrical system. Notwithstanding
the opinion of others to the contrary, it IS possible to have a battery
lead break off or come loose. I know people who've had their car quit because
of this. I don't know anyone who has had their Lycoming quit from this--yet--but
one of the guys on the Aeroelectric List a couple years back did have a battery
lead break (in his case it did not result in engine failure, but if he
had been using a single battery architecture with dual elec igntion, it would
have!). People can argue that it was improper installation or poor maintenance
and that's fine, but it has happened and I prefer to design out the possibility
in my airplane. Even with dual alternators, if the backup alternator is off
and you lose connection to the battery, the alternator is not self-exciting for
startup so it does you no good (or at least I wouldn't bank on it). So you
lose everything including the engine at that point. I was not personally comfortable
with this setup in my plane and decided to go with single alternator, dual
battery setup instead.
Another advantage to the dual battery setup is that you can avoid the perceived
weakness in the Lightspeed system with the Skytec starter that has resulted in
damaging kickback with more than one installation. I won't get into the causes
and fixes and who's-to-blame thing, but if you have a small backup battery
that is isolated from the rest of the elec system, you can use it to power one
ignition while cranking the engine from the main battery. This is exactly what
I do on my plane with great results so far...I turn on only the ignition powered
by the backup battery, leaving the main one off. Crank it and it starts great
(even in winter in Iowa, with no primer system). Then I switch on the main
ignition and I'm good to go with no chance of kickback from low voltages on
the Lightspeed...
I wired mine pretty much like Klaus shows with a Schottky diode in between to isolate
the backup battery from the rest of the elec system. I elected not to put
in a switch like Klaus shows to switch the ignition between main and backup...I
didn't see an advantage to it and didn't want to be flipping switches to
get my engine started again (would prefer it doesn't quit to begin with!). I simply
wired my second igntion directly to the +/- terminals of the backup battery.
The main ignition is likewise wired directly to the +/- terminals of the
main battery. The only other thing I have connected to the backup battery is a
voltmeter just so I can monitor it (note: in my case the path to the voltmeter
is switched on/off with the ignition....this is because the voltmeter draws
a small current, so if you wired it always-on it would drain the battery while
the airplane is powered down).
I used a PowerSonic 2.9 Ah battery (PS-1229). It's light and relatively cheap (I
think about $25-30...you can Google it and get lots of hits). I plan to change
the battery every two years to ensure that it's reasonably fresh. I know Klaus
says 4.5 Ah but I thought that was overkill (unless you plan to be flying
over some really rugged terrain/ocean with no alternates within an hour or two
of flight). The 2.9 Ah batt is theoretically good for almost 3 hours of run time
on one ignition (drawing ~ 1A at cruise RPM's). In the unlikely event that
I ever find myself operating the engine soley on the backup battery, I will try
to have it on the ground within an hour. Remember, if you're flying in that
condition it means you've lost everything else in your panel so you're probably
not going to be wanting to continue a long XC under those circumstances! If
I upgrade to IFR I'll put the backup battery in the Dynon and make sure I have
fresh batteries in my handheld comm and GPS.
One nice thing about the PS-1229 is that it can fit into the standard Vans battery
tray along with an Odyssey PC-680. I have the PC-680 at the back of the tray
against the firewall and a piece of angle in front of it (to keep it from sliding
forward). The PS-1229 is in the front of the tray. There is about 3/4"
of space between the two so any sort of melt down/overheat condition of one battery
won't take out the other one.
FWIW, I made up a quick checklist in my POH for main alternator failure. If the
main alternator quits and I plan to continue my flight for over an hour, I will
turn OFF my backup-powered ignition to save the battery just in case it's needed.
I will continue to planned destination running the main igntion and reduced
panel loads (e-bus) and only turn the backup ignition ON when approaching
to land. This way if the main battery craps out on me prior to arrival at my
destination I will be able to keep the engine running with the fully-charged backup
system.
Some may say my setup is overkill, others will think it's inadequate. But it's
my airplane and this setup is one that I'm very comfortable with.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 8.3 hours...
Subject: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
From: Doug Weiler dcw@mnwing.org
-- RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler dcw@mnwing.org
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
Message 7
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| Subject: | Strange people behavior in debate |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
I don't know about tirade, may be helpful tirade. Its no
different in tone or content than anything Bob writes. If you are
mad that I disagree than that is ridiculous, OK. Get over it, please :-)
If I say something improper, not true or unfair, than point out a
specific thing I said. I'll apologize if I said something wrong. I feel
I said nothing wrong, except to disagree with the Bob N, which is a
crime?
Any *specific* comment where I said something NOT true? Speak up.
Try reading what I write with a smile on your face and in good
humor, because that is the way I write it. :-) Think of it as a light
hearted comments with a smile and friendly suggestions.
I don't understand 90% of what Bob writes sometimes. It makes
no sense, and I mean it. Sorry? It is true. You translate some of the
comments he makes. I am not alone on this either folks. This is
not to be hurtful. Bob talks about REAL engineers, he saved the day
stories, strange analogies and phrases (bucket of bullets) and all
kind of weird stuff I don't understand not related to the topic. I don't
think I am alone here?
Besides the I-VR, the other RED flag topic is ENGINEERS.
Somehow he loves to make comments how he and only he
showed some engineers why something was wrong. OK. I find
that arrogant. If you did not know it, this list HATES engineers? Why?
I am laughing. No one is perfect, especially me, but if you want a
tirade, I learned it from Bob N. ; -) *Is that enough emoticons?*
For gosh darn sakes, lighten up folks. It is suppose to be fun. This
is just an alternator. Get perspective. Do what ever you want. This
is America I can say what I want as long as it is not intended to
damage. You all have thin skin. I have help many, look at that.
Sometimes the emperor has no clothes and its OK to say, HEY
you're naked. Some how Bob makes everything personal, and
disagreeing is an insult. He especially sees RED when it involves
I-VR's.
Let me do a little bragging like Bob does. ;-) lol , hahahaha
Since I have started my (helpful) tirades on this list there's NOW open
dialog on the topic, more people willing to make comments on their I-
VR.
People where afraid to EVEN admit they used an I-VR before.
Many useful details about wiring, operation and maintenance
have been discussed in the last year. I had something to to do with it.
Biggest improvement? Problems are now reported accurately.
Before every problem big or small was OH MY this GUY had smoke
and $30,000 dollars of damage from a ND alternator! Yea RIGHT.
Now a REALITY check (we now know the above is not true)
Read everything Bob has written you will find Bob's not a fan of
I-VR alternators and does not recommend using them. He will play
along, but his heart is not into it, OK. That is cool. Bob does
not support or know much about I-VR's by his own admission.
Bob has no incentive or desire to really promote and understand I-
VR alternators. If he did he would have tested them by now. Look
at the Plane Power Guy, he put effort into it, produces an I-VR's
with a self contained crow-bar. Brilliant. Of course he charges
a lot for his alternators, but theres NO reason we can not
modify our stock alternators the same way. Would Bob lead
the effort? (NO) Why? It would take business away from his
buddies at B&C. We all understand that and that is cool.
(NONE OF THE ABOVE IS BAD, I AM OK WITH ALL OF IT)
(AND IF I AM WRONG SHOW ME WHERE I AM WORNG?)
(I DO MAKE conjecture, but come on, you all know its true.)
When I say WE, who is WE? Well it is not YOU. :-)
There are lots of people who use I-VR alternators with no add on
OV protection. If that is YOU than you are part of We or Us.
If this does not describe YOU, than you are not part of the group.
Don't YOU be so presumptuous in thinking I was talking about
you. YOU know who YOU are. ;-) (am I emoticon-ing enough?)
I do speak for a LARGE group. The group thinks that I-VR are
safe and can be used with out all the sensational, Oh My Gosh OV
stories. In a year and 1/2, the only OV reported were below 16
to 18 volts!!! Many times they where precipitated by the pilot doing
something dumb like turning the alternator OFF/ON under load. FACT
LAST OF MY (helpful) TIRADES
There are FOUR things Bob recommends, which are fine for an
E-VR, but are counter to safe, efficient use of an I-VR:
*Crow-Bar and OV relay: This violates all the
warnings the alternator manufacture recommends, ie do not
disconnect the b-lead from the battery. I take warnings to heart
and try not to out think it. IT SAY NO B-lead disconnect.
*Cooling Air- Bob says NO, but that is for alternators with NO I-
VR. Fact electronics like to be cool for longer life and greater
reliability.
*Warning Light- Bob attacks the (I-VR internal) warning light and
never mentioned it. OK I'll do some boasting. I am the only one that
promoted and recommended its use. Bob was typically negative
and said it would not work if the VR failed. WRONG (his bius showing)
*Fuse on B-Lead- A CB on this lead is important. Not as
important for an E-VR. I suppose a crow-bar OV relay is a
substitute for a CB you can manually trip. However item (1) is
don't use a crow bar OV relay. Fuses are great in the right
place.
So back off and have a beer and cool down you ALL. Lol, ha ha,
:-) and think of all the happy friendly emoticons you can.
I am not going to let bullies bully me. OK. I am gathering just
arguing my point passionately and not agreeing with Bob N.
is my biggest crime.
I am not naive, this is BOB's LIST. Its unfortunate its named
after Bob's company. We don't need to change the name,
just the attitude; all opinions, even non-aeroelectrical opinions are
welcomed. If Bob or the list thinks that open discussion is
welcomed they are not being honest.
We have the 1000lb Gorilla in the corner.
Bring the banana and say nice monkey, all is well.
Let the monkey throw poo on you and say nothing or else.
Yell at the poo throwing monkey, you will get ripped apart.
(Oh no! NOW I'M COMING UP WITH LAME analogies :-0
Bob is rubbing off on me. :-) ha ha ha, but mine make sense. :-)
LoL, ha ha ha, Take care all.
(I am done with this topic)
(fight amongst yourself)
Cheers George
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence@mbdi.org>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham"
> <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
>
> George,
>
> You wrote, "Bob we have fundamental and philosophical differences."
>
> Yeah, like Bob is sane, polite and a great teacher. You are a snivelling,
> pedantic, psychotic twit!*
>
> And, "This is not a debate about I-VR Vs. E-VR, engineers or
> spec sheets."
>
> Yep, you're right, in point of fact, it's not a debate AT ALL when you get
> to the keyboard. Stop already! Get your own group to moderate! But give US
> all a break! We're over you! You don't represent US at all so don't
> presume.
> We're here to hear from Bob and each other. Get over yourself!
>
> Rodney
>
> *For those in the crowd enamored with alphabet soup after a man's name,
> mine
> ends in MD, which just MIGHT make the above a PROFESSIONAL opinion!
>
> PLEEEEEEEEASE DO NOT ARCHIVE!!!
Rodney,
Put on the brakes!. Let's keep this forum for what it was intended ,
electrical systems.
It seems that you have not been on these type of lists long enough. In time
you will learn to ignore this stuff. Bob can take care of himself. Can't we
all get along?
BTW, does MD stand fo MAD Dog?
I also have alphabet soup after my name; DMD which stands for Double Mad
Dog.
Peter Laurence
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Strange people behavior in debate |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
What?
Oh yeah, do not archive :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:07 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strange people behavior in debate
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
I don't know about tirade, may be helpful tirade. Its no
different in tone or content than anything Bob writes. If you are
mad that I disagree than that is ridiculous, OK. Get over it, please :-)
If I say something improper, not true or unfair, than point out a
specific thing I said. I'll apologize if I said something wrong. I feel
I said nothing wrong, except to disagree with the Bob N, which is a
crime?
Any *specific* comment where I said something NOT true? Speak up.
Try reading what I write with a smile on your face and in good
humor, because that is the way I write it. :-) Think of it as a light
hearted comments with a smile and friendly suggestions.
I don't understand 90% of what Bob writes sometimes. It makes
no sense, and I mean it. Sorry? It is true. You translate some of the
comments he makes. I am not alone on this either folks. This is
not to be hurtful. Bob talks about REAL engineers, he saved the day
stories, strange analogies and phrases (bucket of bullets) and all
kind of weird stuff I don't understand not related to the topic. I don't
think I am alone here?
Besides the I-VR, the other RED flag topic is ENGINEERS.
Somehow he loves to make comments how he and only he
showed some engineers why something was wrong. OK. I find
that arrogant. If you did not know it, this list HATES engineers? Why?
I am laughing. No one is perfect, especially me, but if you want a
tirade, I learned it from Bob N. ; -) *Is that enough emoticons?*
For gosh darn sakes, lighten up folks. It is suppose to be fun. This
is just an alternator. Get perspective. Do what ever you want. This
is America I can say what I want as long as it is not intended to
damage. You all have thin skin. I have help many, look at that.
Sometimes the emperor has no clothes and its OK to say, HEY
you're naked. Some how Bob makes everything personal, and
disagreeing is an insult. He especially sees RED when it involves
I-VR's.
Let me do a little bragging like Bob does. ;-) lol , hahahaha
Since I have started my (helpful) tirades on this list there's NOW open
dialog on the topic, more people willing to make comments on their I-
VR.
People where afraid to EVEN admit they used an I-VR before.
Many useful details about wiring, operation and maintenance
have been discussed in the last year. I had something to to do with it.
Biggest improvement? Problems are now reported accurately.
Before every problem big or small was OH MY this GUY had smoke
and $30,000 dollars of damage from a ND alternator! Yea RIGHT.
Now a REALITY check (we now know the above is not true)
Read everything Bob has written you will find Bob's not a fan of
I-VR alternators and does not recommend using them. He will play
along, but his heart is not into it, OK. That is cool. Bob does
not support or know much about I-VR's by his own admission.
Bob has no incentive or desire to really promote and understand I-
VR alternators. If he did he would have tested them by now. Look
at the Plane Power Guy, he put effort into it, produces an I-VR's
with a self contained crow-bar. Brilliant. Of course he charges
a lot for his alternators, but theres NO reason we can not
modify our stock alternators the same way. Would Bob lead
the effort? (NO) Why? It would take business away from his
buddies at B&C. We all understand that and that is cool.
(NONE OF THE ABOVE IS BAD, I AM OK WITH ALL OF IT)
(AND IF I AM WRONG SHOW ME WHERE I AM WORNG?)
(I DO MAKE conjecture, but come on, you all know its true.)
When I say WE, who is WE? Well it is not YOU. :-)
There are lots of people who use I-VR alternators with no add on
OV protection. If that is YOU than you are part of We or Us.
If this does not describe YOU, than you are not part of the group.
Don't YOU be so presumptuous in thinking I was talking about
you. YOU know who YOU are. ;-) (am I emoticon-ing enough?)
I do speak for a LARGE group. The group thinks that I-VR are
safe and can be used with out all the sensational, Oh My Gosh OV
stories. In a year and 1/2, the only OV reported were below 16
to 18 volts!!! Many times they where precipitated by the pilot doing
something dumb like turning the alternator OFF/ON under load. FACT
LAST OF MY (helpful) TIRADES
There are FOUR things Bob recommends, which are fine for an
E-VR, but are counter to safe, efficient use of an I-VR:
*Crow-Bar and OV relay: This violates all the
warnings the alternator manufacture recommends, ie do not
disconnect the b-lead from the battery. I take warnings to heart
and try not to out think it. IT SAY NO B-lead disconnect.
*Cooling Air- Bob says NO, but that is for alternators with NO I-
VR. Fact electronics like to be cool for longer life and greater
reliability.
*Warning Light- Bob attacks the (I-VR internal) warning light and
never mentioned it. OK I'll do some boasting. I am the only one that
promoted and recommended its use. Bob was typically negative
and said it would not work if the VR failed. WRONG (his bius showing)
*Fuse on B-Lead- A CB on this lead is important. Not as
important for an E-VR. I suppose a crow-bar OV relay is a
substitute for a CB you can manually trip. However item (1) is
don't use a crow bar OV relay. Fuses are great in the right
place.
So back off and have a beer and cool down you ALL. Lol, ha ha,
:-) and think of all the happy friendly emoticons you can.
I am not going to let bullies bully me. OK. I am gathering just
arguing my point passionately and not agreeing with Bob N.
is my biggest crime.
I am not naive, this is BOB's LIST. Its unfortunate its named
after Bob's company. We don't need to change the name,
just the attitude; all opinions, even non-aeroelectrical opinions are
welcomed. If Bob or the list thinks that open discussion is
welcomed they are not being honest.
We have the 1000lb Gorilla in the corner.
Bring the banana and say nice monkey, all is well.
Let the monkey throw poo on you and say nothing or else.
Yell at the poo throwing monkey, you will get ripped apart.
(Oh no! NOW I'M COMING UP WITH LAME analogies :-0
Bob is rubbing off on me. :-) ha ha ha, but mine make sense. :-)
LoL, ha ha ha, Take care all.
(I am done with this topic)
(fight amongst yourself)
Cheers George
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Changing the mag switches out for emag and pmag |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sparrowhawk2@mac.com
>
>
>>
>> I'm ditching my old Slick mags and going to one Emag and one Pmag. My
>> wiring from switches to mags is from the old Z-9 drawing (same mag
>> wiring as in
>> Z-11). Emagair says that you should switch off power to both the
>> emag and the pmag because there is a drain on the battery when they
>> are powered up, so direct wiring from the battery bus without a
>> switch is out. Both
>> ignitions should be ON during start, as opposed to the disabling of
>> the right mag during startup now. Is there a way to retain the
>> switches I have, including the momentary "start" function on the left
>> mag switch rather than replace the switches with 1-3 switches as in
>> Z-12?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jerry Carter
>> RV-8A approaching 500 hrs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Strange people behavior in debate |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
George wrote:
"Do what ever you want. This
is America I can say what I want as long as it is not intended to
damage."
I'm trying to learn about aircraft electrical systems here and am quite
tired with the personality conflicts. This is Bob's list. Therefore his
personality rules if there is a conflict. If you cant' handle it, you can
opt out. I hope you stay. I'm hanging in because there still are some
nuggets to be discovered.
My beef with what you just said is the part about "this is "America". It is
not just America. I am not in America. This forum is conducted on a venue
made available by the "Wide World Web" (its international folks) and as such
we all should be on our best behaviour. It's a type of world stage. The
rest of the world is watching, listening, participating and comments like
this serves to re-enforce one unfortunate world view that "Americans" are
"arrogant". It IS damaging to the USA. We should have a heart of
thankfulness and remember that we are very blessed to be able to afford,
build and fly such aircraft. OBAM/experimental people are located all over
the world, not just in America, and yes we all use the WWW too. Let's help
each other out as best we can. Most are not as fortunate as we are.
Now back to electrical systems please.
Feeling fortunate to be living during such an amazing time in history and
able to participate in OBAM.
Bevan
RV7A
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
"Tirade, a protracted speech usually marked by intemperate, vituperative, or
harshly censorious language." ...courtesy Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Yes George, it's a TIRADE! You are obviously mentally unstable and I suspect
in another manic phase of your bipolar affective disorder. See a
psychiatrist, get on some Lithium and rejoin the ranks of polite society.
George, you are NOT the moderator of this list, Bob is. You are NOT the
reason for the success of this list, Bob is. You do NOT represent a large
group of OBAM aircraft enthusiasts, Bob does. Without the immense
contribution Bob has made to the OBAM aircraft community WORLDWIDE this list
would not exist and you sir, would have no audience at all! If you doubt the
simple truth of this, get your own list and moderate it! Then the value of
your contribution to the OBAM aircraft community will become immediately
obvious. I'm willing to bet a month's wages (remember, I'm an MD, that's a
significant wager) that your list would not hold a candle to this list. Just
try it and see. Put your money where your mouth is!
Rodney
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
Peter,
Of course you're right. Sorry for the tirade. I'll try to do better in the
future.
But... I consider myself part of the Aeroelectric Connection family. I
consider Bob the head of that family. In any family worth belonging to, when
someone attacks your kin you don't just sit idly by and expect your family
member to "defend himself". You jump, and I do mean JUMP to that family
member's aid. Bob has earned our respect!!! He has earned our loyalty. I do
not consider it any bother at all to jump to his aid. He ain't heavy, he's
my brother :o)
Bob, if you're reading this, my wife still wants to bake you a cake for all
the help you've been to her husband. If you're ever in eastern Tennessee or
even northern Alabama or Georgia, you've got an open invitation to the guest
room, dinner and your favorite cake. She makes this thing she calls an
eclaire cake that is to die for! Of course, Mrs Nuckolls is also invited.
Rodney ( an unabashed Nuckoll-head )
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
Rodney:
Nuckoll-head; outstanding!
That is the best observation yet to come from this and similar threads. You
are now our officially designated VP of the Nuckoll-Heads. May they live
long, prosper, and learn.
do not archive
Dick Sipp
member in good standing
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