Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:01 AM - Re: Coolie hat as pointing device (Harley)
2. 06:25 AM - Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:35 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Mark R Steitle)
4. 06:55 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Mike)
5. 06:57 AM - Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Marketing research question (John Schroeder)
7. 07:16 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Bill Denton)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Brian Lloyd)
9. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Brian Lloyd)
10. 08:23 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Vern Little)
11. 08:23 AM - Heads up on double sided adhesive (Mike Christian)
12. 08:29 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Gilles Thesee)
13. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Mark R Steitle)
14. 09:39 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Jerry Grimmonpre)
15. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Bret Smith)
16. 10:00 AM - Re: Marketing research question (sportav8r@aol.com)
17. 10:12 AM - KMA 24 connector (rd2@evenlink.com)
18. 10:20 AM - Re: Coolie hat as pointing device (Bill Dube)
19. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters... (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
20. 10:45 AM - FWF fire annunciator (was market research) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
21. 11:00 AM - Re: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) (sportav8r@aol.com)
22. 11:05 AM - Re: Marketing research question ()
23. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 11:11 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Mickey Coggins)
25. 11:11 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (sportav8r@aol.com)
28. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 11:24 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
30. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 11:29 AM - Re: Heads up on double sided adhesive (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 11:37 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Kevin Horton)
34. 01:07 PM - Re: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
35. 01:22 PM - Ray Allen RP3 LED Poaition Indicator (Bill and Marsha)
36. 04:10 PM - Re: Ray Allen RP3 LED Position Indicator (Ralph E. Capen)
37. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Sam Chambers)
38. 06:40 PM - Re: Annunciated Parameters wish list . . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
39. 06:40 PM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
40. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters List (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
41. 06:52 PM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
42. 06:54 PM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
43. 06:55 PM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
44. 07:56 PM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert G. Wright)
45. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: Annunciated Parameters wish list . . . . (D Wysong)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Coolie hat as pointing device |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
Morning, Bill...
>>Here is a link to the exact "finger" trackball:<<
Now THAT'S a great little accessory! Can even use that here at the desktop!
Did a little search, and found it is offered on several websites for as
little as $11.95 and as much as $24.95 (its MSRP).
Also found a couple of WIRELESS finger trackball (logitech makes one)
for a bit more ($30-50)...that sounds like a possibility as well.
Also found this unique little unit...a wireless, rechargeable, RF finger
trackball! Not sure what's in the handle (probably batteries) but it
sure looks like the control stick might fit up inside it (at least mine,
which is still the plans called Long EZ version)...maybe replace the
batteries with a hard wired modification with the wires through the
stick? Make a neat looking control stick. Almost Thrustmaster style.
www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=FDM-B4D-RF&cat=MOU&cpc=MAC
Think I'll take a trip around the local stores this morning and see
what's available here (we have ALL the big stores here in Henrietta
within a mile or so of each other...Wal-Mart, Sam's, BJ's, Target, Best
Buy, CompUSA, Circuit City, Radio Shack, Sears, Wegman's <G>, etc, etc.)
Harley Dixon
Bill Dube wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bill Dube <william.p.dube@noaa.gov>
>
>We use trackballs on our airborne instruments. Other pointing devices
>are hard to use in turbulent air. Touch pads are nearly impossible to
>use in rough air.
>
>Here is a picture of the instrument that I built a couple of years ago
>on the NOAA WP3 Hurricane Hunter:
>http://www.al.noaa.gov/2004/photos/P3/13.jpg
>
>Notice the tiny track ball in the corner of the laptop tray. You "left
>click" by pulling the trigger button with your index finger. It is quite
>comfortable to work the ball with your thumb. Easy to use in rough air
>as your thumb moves with your hand and the whole mouse moves with your
>hand too.
>
>Here is a link to the exact "finger" trackball:
>http://www.sfcable.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MS4-USB
>I've seen them for sale at Walmart, but I couldn't find them on their
>website.
>
>I bet you could mount one on top of your control stick. (Be sure to buy
>a spare. They are not ultra high quality.) We held ours in place with
>Velcro. You can see how your hand could grip the stick while working the
>trackball by looking at the picture in the advertisement. Just photoshop
>a control stick in. :*)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>Harold wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold" <kayce33@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Re pointing device, How about a Logitech Track ball, USB plug one hand
>>operation.
>>Thumb moves the ball, index finger left click or wheel, and middle finger
>>right click .
>>I gave up on the notebook touch pad, and this goes where the notebook
>>goes...wouldn't be without it
>>Harold
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
both fabrication and software that would make the product
highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
when not illuminated.
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 3
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
Bob,
Running a liquid cooled rotary, I would add:
Coolant Temp,
Coolant Pres,
Coolant Low, and also
Oil Temp.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marketing research question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
both fabrication and software that would make the product
highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
when not illuminated.
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 4
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
I know that these functions are not as common on most airplanes, but I
have them and they could mean the difference. Speed Brakes, Ram Air
Open, Gear Pump On, (Continental Engines and the New ECI fuel system for
Lycomings - you don't want the pump left on in normal use - "Fuel Pump
On")
Food for thought, the Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 has an intergraded
customizable electronic warning system with audio built into the engine
system package. Over the last three years I have worked with 30 plus
owners and all seem to like this type of system. This has prompted an
engineer friend of mine at Honeywell to come up with a LCD digital stand
alone annunciator system. If you would like I'll keep you posted on his
progress.
Mike
Lancair Legacy
TS-11
Kitfox
A-320
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marketing research question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
both fabrication and software that would make the product
highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
when not illuminated.
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
--
1/16/2006
--
1/16/2006
Message 5
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Subject: | RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
The wish list now stands at:
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Coolant Temp
Coolant Pres
Coolant Low
Oil Temp
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
--
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob -
I would add:
Boost Pump
Baggage Door
Ground Power
Starter Engaged
Crossfeed
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:20:59 -0600, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
--
Message 7
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
A couple of minor points, if I may...
Isn't there some sort of "recommended standard" for the colors to be used
for warning lights and annunciators? I thought I read something about this
recently, but I can't seem to find a link to the article.
Regarding the "dead front" design, let me mention a usability issue from the
computer field that might or might not be relevant in the aviation world:
Consider a computer program with two "screens". When you are on one screen,
you can both "Print" and "Save" data, and there are "buttons" at the top of
the screen that allow you to accomplish this. But on the second page, you
can only "Print" the data. Common sense would dictate that since you can't
save information on the second page, there would be no need to display a
"Save" button; only a "Print" button would be required.
But we determined that users preferred to also have a "Save" button on the
second page, even though it was disabled and non-functional. A consistent
button layout provided more usability than a design in which buttons
appeared and disappeared, which tended to confuse users.
Again, I don't know if this is relevant in the aircraft world, but it might
be worth considering.
One other point regarding the "dead front" design: What about the first-time
or occasional flyer of the airplane? How would they know which parameters
were annunciated, and which would need to be monitored via a gauge or other
indicator?
I assume good practice would dictate that all of the annunciator lights
would be illuminated when the battery master was turned on, then go dark
following engine start. While this would provide some indication of what
parameters would be annunciated, would the first-time or occasional pilot
remember what they were?
None of this may be of any importance whatsoever, but these are the sort of
questions I would want to see asked anytime anything was being designed...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marketing research question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
both fabrication and software that would make the product
highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
when not illuminated.
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
You know, I installed an OAT warning in my RV-4 to let me know when the
OAT dropped below 0C. It turned out to be a huge annoyance as it would
go off whether or not there was any chance for ice. And when there was a
chance of ice and temps below 0C, I already knew without the warning.
This tells me that an OAT warning is not particularly useful. Kind of
like an ELT: 100 false alarms for one useful alarm.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
>
> The wish list now stands at:
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
> Coolant Temp
> Coolant Pres
> Coolant Low
> Oil Temp
Bob, the most useful thing I had in my RV-4 was aural alerting. I had
the Audio Flight Avionics engine monitor. It was the most useful engine
and systems monitor I have ever used. The key was that all alerts were
in a pleasant female voice. I looked at the panel to manipulate engine
settings, e.g. MAP (throttel), RPM (prop), EGT (mixture), CHT, but I
didn't bother to display anything else full-time. (I could ask the unit
to display any parameter at any time.) The rest of the time I would rely
on the aural alerting.
I didn't need to look inside for anything having to do with operating
the airplane in VFR conditions. If there was a problem, it would tell me
with a message like:
"Warning, cylinder head temperature high" (lower the nose or reduce power),
"Warning, fuel pressure low" (oops, I forgot to switch tanks),
In an airplane with a fixed-pitch prop I might get, "Warning, engine RPM
high," while doing acro so I would know to retard the throttle.
So if you decide to build this, throw in the aural warning. Memory in
cheap in microprocessors these days so we record the warnings. Men can
have the sexy woman's voice and women can have the sexy guy's voice. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vern Little <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
Bob: I've looked at this problem extensively in the past, and developed
several annunciator products, and have a few more on the drawing board.
In my opinion, no matter what you choose, someone will always require
something different than you make. If you end up being totally general
purpose, then you may wish to consider a color LCD screen as an
annunciator display.
This has it's drawbacks too-- many people like discrete lamps.
NKK makes some (very expensive) backlit LCD switches/displays. You can
display legends or messages on a small (about 1"x1") display, and have
the option of incorporating a mute/acknowledge switch built into the
display.
Of course, by the time you are done, this will cost more than some
electronic engine monitors... which are well positioned as annunciator
displays (given enough inputs).
I also looked at customization at build time... programming inputs and
legends. This is a very expensive (and error prone) process. If you
can make everything field programmable by the end user, it will be
easier and cheaper in the long term.
Finally, as you (unfortunately) know, the Experimental aircraft market
is too small to justify expensive custom tooling and software
development, so it's nice to piggy back on other markets (like
industrial control). Of course... you need entirely different input
and legend requirements.... oh well!
Good luck with this project, I hope they find the recipe for success.
Vern Little
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
> El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
> They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
> whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
> the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
> trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
>
> A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
> would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
> both fabrication and software that would make the product
> highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
> are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
> the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
> is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
> when not illuminated.
>
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Heads up on double sided adhesive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Christian" <mchristian@canetics.com>
One very strong adhesive tape we use is 3M VHB (for Very High Bond). It is
great for metal to metal bonding (and just about anything else). I was told
that it is used to bond wing skins to ribs in some aircraft applications.
It is very thin too...
www.3m.com/vhb
Mike
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit :
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
>El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
>They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
>whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
>the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
>trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
>
>A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
>would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
>both fabrication and software that would make the product
>highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
>are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
>the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
>is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
>when not illuminated.
>
>Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
>points of interest might be important enough to light a light
>and/or blow in your ear?
>
>Main Volts Lo
>Aux Volts Lo
>Left Fuel Lo
>Right Fuel Lo
>Oil Pres Lo
>Canopy Latch
>OAT Warn
>Pitot Heat
>
>
Hi Bob and all,
In our project, we have two Rotax specific lights :
Overboost (red)
Turbo (control malfunction) (yellow)
I also included
Boost pump ON (white)
Flaps down (white)
Coolant pressure would be great, too.
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 13
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Subject: | RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
Bob,
This seems a good time to bring this up. My Chevy p/u has a cool little
"message center" that tells me that its time to change oil, or that the
cargo light is on, etc. It is about 1.5" square. I was wondering if it
would be possible to adapt this to experimental a/c use as a compact
annunciator? I don't have a clue as to how it works, but I thought that
it may be possible to get one from GM, or out of a wreck, and then
program a PIC to provide customized alerts for various things of
interest. It appears to use some sort of LED panel with yellow
lettering. So, does this sound plausible? Has anyone on the list done
this? Am I nuts?
Mark S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:57 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated
Parameters List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
The wish list now stands at:
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Coolant Temp
Coolant Pres
Coolant Low
Oil Temp
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
--
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Bob ...
How about only one small LCD the size of single display light ... When a
warning is announced, it is displayed. If there's more than one warning the
LCD scrolls to display when the acknowledge button is pressed. The
ackowledge button would also change the color of the displyed item until
that item is dealt with. I think a simple aural tone would be enough to get
attention. The aural tone would end with pushing the acknowledge button.
This single display would fit all panels and be cheap to produce.
My 2 cents ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
How about a simple "Master ON" reminder?
Bret
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated
Parameters List
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
>
> The wish list now stands at:
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
> Coolant Temp
> Coolant Pres
> Coolant Low
> Oil Temp
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
> --
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Sensors might be difficult, but the inputs I'd need most often are things like:
Tiedowns still tied; Pitot cover left on; Passenger exceeds allowable weight
or girth limits; canopy ajar; cowl plugs still in; bad wx decision; Center freq.
selected for air-air chit-chat; seafood cooler leakage.
On a serious note, how about a FWF fire annunciator?
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:20:59 -0600
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marketing research question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
both fabrication and software that would make the product
highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
when not illuminated.
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 17
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Subject: | KMA 24 connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Can anyone point me to a source for a KMA 24 audio panel connector and pins?
Thanks
Rumen
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Coolie hat as pointing device |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bill Dube <william.p.dube@noaa.gov>
Perhaps you could buy both the wired and wireless finger mice, then swap
the guts. This would give you the nifty case that would fit perfectly on
the top of the stick, but without having to deal with the wireless stuff
or battery replacement/substitution.
Bill Dube'
Harley wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
>
>Morning, Bill...
>
> >>Here is a link to the exact "finger" trackball:<<
>
>Now THAT'S a great little accessory! Can even use that here at the desktop!
>
>Did a little search, and found it is offered on several websites for as
>little as $11.95 and as much as $24.95 (its MSRP).
>
>Also found a couple of WIRELESS finger trackball (logitech makes one)
>for a bit more ($30-50)...that sounds like a possibility as well.
>
>Also found this unique little unit...a wireless, rechargeable, RF finger
>trackball! Not sure what's in the handle (probably batteries) but it
>sure looks like the control stick might fit up inside it (at least mine,
>which is still the plans called Long EZ version)...maybe replace the
>batteries with a hard wired modification with the wires through the
>stick? Make a neat looking control stick. Almost Thrustmaster style.
>
>www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=FDM-B4D-RF&cat=MOU&cpc=MAC
>
>Think I'll take a trip around the local stores this morning and see
>what's available here (we have ALL the big stores here in Henrietta
>within a mile or so of each other...Wal-Mart, Sam's, BJ's, Target, Best
>Buy, CompUSA, Circuit City, Radio Shack, Sears, Wegman's <G>, etc, etc.)
>
>Harley Dixon
>
>
>Bill Dube wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bill Dube <william.p.dube@noaa.gov>
>>
>>We use trackballs on our airborne instruments. Other pointing devices
>>are hard to use in turbulent air. Touch pads are nearly impossible to
>>use in rough air.
>>
>>Here is a picture of the instrument that I built a couple of years ago
>>on the NOAA WP3 Hurricane Hunter:
>>http://www.al.noaa.gov/2004/photos/P3/13.jpg
>>
>>Notice the tiny track ball in the corner of the laptop tray. You "left
>>click" by pulling the trigger button with your index finger. It is quite
>>comfortable to work the ball with your thumb. Easy to use in rough air
>>as your thumb moves with your hand and the whole mouse moves with your
>>hand too.
>>
>>Here is a link to the exact "finger" trackball:
>>http://www.sfcable.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MS4-USB
>>I've seen them for sale at Walmart, but I couldn't find them on their
>>website.
>>
>>I bet you could mount one on top of your control stick. (Be sure to buy
>>a spare. They are not ultra high quality.) We held ours in place with
>>Velcro. You can see how your hand could grip the stick while working the
>>trackball by looking at the picture in the advertisement. Just photoshop
>>a control stick in. :*)
>>
>> Bill Dube'
>>
>>Harold wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold" <kayce33@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>Re pointing device, How about a Logitech Track ball, USB plug one hand
>>>operation.
>>>Thumb moves the ball, index finger left click or wheel, and middle finger
>>>right click .
>>>I gave up on the notebook touch pad, and this goes where the notebook
>>>goes...wouldn't be without it
>>>Harold
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 3/9/06 10:47:48 AM Central Standard Time,
nuckollsr@cox.net writes:
> The wish list now stands at:
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
> Coolant Temp
> Coolant Pres
> Coolant Low
> Oil Temp
>>>>>>>>>>
My annunciator features a FLAPS indicator that is on whenever the flaps are
not all the way up- has proven useful several times, particularly when going
around. Also think OAT might be annoying unless smart enough to x-check
humidity. An EIS light would be useful for all those folks using these engine
monitors...
Mark Phillips do not archive
Message 20
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Subject: | FWF fire annunciator (was market research) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 3/9/06 12:05:00 PM Central Standard Time,
sportav8r@aol.com writes:
> On a serious note, how about a FWF fire annunciator?
>
>>>>>
Has anyone considered or tried a thermocouple centered on the cowl outlet to
monitor air temp? An AUX channel on EIS could monitor sensor with upper limit
setting at some value above normal ops to possibly serve this purpose...
Mark do not archive
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
My thought s have been toward a combo of overtemp sensor (as you suggest), either
in series or parallel with an arrangement where a cotton thread holds open
a spring-loaded N.C. plunger-type microswitch. In theory, the flame parts the
thread and closes the switch, whereas high temps alone would not trip it. Cotton
thread would probably be a frequent replacement item, though, in that oily,
hot, and vibration-filled environment, and easily broken during engine maintenance
chores. I have not installed anything like this in my RV, but have given
it some thought.
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:44:31 EST
Subject: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 3/9/06 12:05:00 PM Central Standard Time,
sportav8r@aol.com writes:
> On a serious note, how about a FWF fire annunciator?
>
>>>>>
Has anyone considered or tried a thermocouple centered on the cowl outlet to
monitor air temp? An AUX channel on EIS could monitor sensor with upper limit
setting at some value above normal ops to possibly serve this purpose...
Mark do not archive
Message 22
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bob@flyboybob.com>
Electric Bob asked:
<< From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear? >>
My addition would be landing gear up and throttle > 1/3.
Regards,
Bob Lee
KR2 N52BL Suwanee, GA
91% done only 63% to go!
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Annunciated Parameters List
At 12:43 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
>
>How about a simple "Master ON" reminder?
If you have active notification of low voltage (your primary
electrical system monitoring function), the it's already
jumping up and down right after the alternator is shut down
and/or the engine stops.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
>
Bob,
You've gotten some great feedback already. Trio Avionics
is using an LCD switch that has text that changes.
http://www.trioavionics.com/alt_hold.htm
Here's Paul Dye's home grown annunciator panel:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=5197
Whatever you do, I'd recommend leaving the labels open
for the builder to set them however they like. Clear
label makers with reverse text output work great for this.
Also, Vern's got some nice products here:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/page_2.html
Here's what I'm planning:
Engine Computer Warning
Fuel Pressure Low
Aux Fuel Pump On
OVP Active
Low Coolant
EIS Warning
The EIS Warning is linked to the GRT Avionics EIS 4000,
and it is monitoring lots of stuff.
Best regards,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:37 AM 3/9/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
>Bob ...
>How about only one small LCD the size of single display light ... When a
>warning is announced, it is displayed. If there's more than one warning the
>LCD scrolls to display when the acknowledge button is pressed. The
>ackowledge button would also change the color of the displyed item until
>that item is dealt with. I think a simple aural tone would be enough to get
>attention. The aural tone would end with pushing the acknowledge button.
>This single display would fit all panels and be cheap to produce.
>My 2 cents ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
We talked about this . . . but sunlight viewabel LCD's are
still pretty pricey compared to an epoxy casting
full of LED which are getting cheaper daily.
. . . and certainly, new warnings would flash and deliver
a warning tone. When a button is pushed, flashing and tone
stops.
Bob. . .
Message 26
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Subject: | RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Annunciated Parameters List
At 11:27 AM 3/9/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle"
><mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
>
>Bob,
>This seems a good time to bring this up. My Chevy p/u has a cool little
>"message center" that tells me that its time to change oil, or that the
>cargo light is on, etc. It is about 1.5" square. I was wondering if it
>would be possible to adapt this to experimental a/c use as a compact
>annunciator? I don't have a clue as to how it works, but I thought that
>it may be possible to get one from GM, or out of a wreck, and then
>program a PIC to provide customized alerts for various things of
>interest. It appears to use some sort of LED panel with yellow
>lettering. So, does this sound plausible? Has anyone on the list done
>this? Am I nuts?
Not at all. In fact, this is the wave of the future.
We keep watching it. At the present time it doesn't
fit our $time$ to market model.
Bob . . .
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated |
Parameters List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
This sounds like the button that Trio uses in my altitude hold :-)
Slick little item.
-BB
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:13:30 -0600
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net> Annunciated Parameters List
At 11:27 AM 3/9/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle"
><mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
>
>Bob,
>This seems a good time to bring this up. My Chevy p/u has a cool little
>"message center" that tells me that its time to change oil, or that the
>cargo light is on, etc. It is about 1.5" square. I was wondering if it
>would be possible to adapt this to experimental a/c use as a compact
>annunciator? I don't have a clue as to how it works, but I thought that
>it may be possible to get one from GM, or out of a wreck, and then
>program a PIC to provide customized alerts for various things of
>interest. It appears to use some sort of LED panel with yellow
>lettering. So, does this sound plausible? Has anyone on the list done
>this? Am I nuts?
Not at all. In fact, this is the wave of the future.
We keep watching it. At the present time it doesn't
fit our $time$ to market model.
Bob . . .
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated |
Parameters List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Annunciated Parameters List
>
>So if you decide to build this, throw in the aural warning. Memory in
>cheap in microprocessors these days so we record the warnings. Men can
>have the sexy woman's voice and women can have the sexy guy's voice. ;-)
That's been discussed. The voice chips are plentiful and capable.
It's a big delta $time$ for development but the idea is still
in the pot.
Bob . . .
Message 29
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:13 AM 3/9/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
>
>A couple of minor points, if I may...
>
>Isn't there some sort of "recommended standard" for the colors to be used
>for warning lights and annunciators? I thought I read something about this
>recently, but I can't seem to find a link to the article.
Yes. We use the "accepted/approved" colors for such things out
at RAC . . . but picking colors will be a trivial concern
and highly customizable.
>One other point regarding the "dead front" design: What about the first-time
>or occasional flyer of the airplane? How would they know which parameters
>were annunciated, and which would need to be monitored via a gauge or other
>indicator?
Press-to-test and power-up reset lights all the lights.
>I assume good practice would dictate that all of the annunciator lights
>would be illuminated when the battery master was turned on, then go dark
>following engine start. While this would provide some indication of what
>parameters would be annunciated, would the first-time or occasional pilot
>remember what they were?
>
>None of this may be of any importance whatsoever, but these are the sort of
>questions I would want to see asked anytime anything was being designed...
Good food for thought. Thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Annunciated Parameters...
>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>My annunciator features a FLAPS indicator that is on whenever the flaps are
>not all the way up- has proven useful several times, particularly when going
>around. Also think OAT might be annoying unless smart enough to x-check
>humidity. An EIS light would be useful for all those folks using these
>engine
>monitors...
Okay . . . it's been added.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Heads up on double sided adhesive |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:23 AM 3/9/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Christian"
><mchristian@canetics.com>
>
>One very strong adhesive tape we use is 3M VHB (for Very High Bond). It is
>great for metal to metal bonding (and just about anything else). I was told
>that it is used to bond wing skins to ribs in some aircraft applications.
>It is very thin too...
>
>www.3m.com/vhb
I'm familiar with these products. We use them in various
places around RAC.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:18 AM 3/9/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vern Little <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
>Bob: I've looked at this problem extensively in the past, and developed
>several annunciator products, and have a few more on the drawing board.
>
>In my opinion, no matter what you choose, someone will always require
>something different than you make. If you end up being totally general
>purpose, then you may wish to consider a color LCD screen as an
>annunciator display.
We're targeting the middle market with a goal
of minimizing costs (and of course, development
time).
>This has it's drawbacks too-- many people like discrete lamps.
>
>NKK makes some (very expensive) backlit LCD switches/displays. You can
>display legends or messages on a small (about 1"x1") display, and have
>the option of incorporating a mute/acknowledge switch built into the
>display.
>
>Of course, by the time you are done, this will cost more than some
>electronic engine monitors... which are well positioned as annunciator
>displays (given enough inputs).
Yup . . .
>I also looked at customization at build time... programming inputs and
>legends. This is a very expensive (and error prone) process. If you
>can make everything field programmable by the end user, it will be
>easier and cheaper in the long term.
Yes. One version would have a USB port and a graphical
user interface for user programming of certain parameters.
Of course, with lamps, the legends are harder to change
but it's a peel-off overlay. We could fabricate a new
one pretty reasonably.
>Finally, as you (unfortunately) know, the Experimental aircraft market
>is too small to justify expensive custom tooling and software
>development, so it's nice to piggy back on other markets (like
>industrial control). Of course... you need entirely different input
>and legend requirements.... oh well!
I'm not sure that's so much of a roadblock. $time$ to market
for certified ships is going up exponentially with new no-value-added-
requirements and labor being added each year. My team of skunk-works guys
can wear a lot of hats and don't need to satisfy anyone but me
and my customers . . .
>Good luck with this project, I hope they find the recipe for success.
Thanks for sharing . . .
Bob . . .
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Fuel Pres Lo
Engine (output from an engine monitor, to tell you to look at it to
see what problem it has found).
Kevin Horton
On 9 Mar 2006, at 09:56, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
>
> The wish list now stands at:
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
> Coolant Temp
> Coolant Pres
> Coolant Low
> Oil Temp
>
>
Message 34
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Subject: | FWF fire annunciator (was market research) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Someone mentioned this once before (Eric maybe) but you could use one of these
puppies for flame detection.
<http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=3D121>
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sportav8r@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
My thought s have been toward a combo of overtemp sensor (as you suggest), either
in series or parallel with an arrangement where a cotton thread holds open
a spring-loaded N.C. plunger-type microswitch. In theory, the flame parts the
thread and closes the switch, whereas high temps alone would not trip it. Cotton
thread would probably be a frequent replacement item, though, in that oily,
hot, and vibration-filled environment, and easily broken during engine maintenance
chores. I have not installed anything like this in my RV, but have given
it some thought.
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:44:31 EST
Subject: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 3/9/06 12:05:00 PM Central Standard Time, sportav8r@aol.com
writes:
> On a serious note, how about a FWF fire annunciator?
>
>>>>>
Has anyone considered or tried a thermocouple centered on the cowl outlet to monitor
air temp? An AUX channel on EIS could monitor sensor with upper limit setting
at some value above normal ops to possibly serve this purpose...
Mark do not archive
Message 35
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Subject: | Ray Allen RP3 LED Poaition Indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha" <docyukon@ptcnet.net>
I have a rac rp3 indicator that I would like to use as a flap position indicator.
Can anyone tell me the color code of the six wires. And the resistance needed
for the feedback ckt? Bill S.
Message 36
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Subject: | Re: Ray Allen RP3 LED Position Indicator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
They make an indicator sender too I've got one just for that purpose.
My documentation is at the hangar - but it may be on their website......
Get me off-list if you need more info
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill and Marsha" <docyukon@ptcnet.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen RP3 LED Poaition Indicator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha"
> <docyukon@ptcnet.net>
>
> I have a rac rp3 indicator that I would like to use as a flap position
> indicator. Can anyone tell me the color code of the six wires. And the
> resistance needed for the feedback ckt? Bill S.
>
>
>
Message 37
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Chambers" <schamber@glasgow-ky.com>
gear
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated
Parameters List
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
>
> The wish list now stands at:
>
> Main Volts Lo
> Aux Volts Lo
> Left Fuel Lo
> Right Fuel Lo
> Oil Pres Lo
> Canopy Latch
> OAT Warn
> Pitot Heat
> Coolant Temp
> Coolant Pres
> Coolant Low
> Oil Temp
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
> --
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
>
Message 38
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Subject: | RE: Annunciated Parameters wish list . . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
The wish list now stands at:
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Coolant Temp
Coolant Pres
Coolant Low
Oil Temp
Turbo (control malfunction) (yellow)
Boost pump ON (white)
Fire
Flaps Warn
Fuel Pump ON
Starter engaged
P-Mag Maint
Prop Overspeed
Gear extension Warning
Nose Gear
Lt Mn Gear
Rt Mn Gear
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
--
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 39
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:08 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
>Electric Bob asked:
><< From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
>points of interest might be important enough to light a light
>and/or blow in your ear? >>
>
>My addition would be landing gear up and throttle > 1/3.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob Lee
>KR2 N52BL Suwanee, GA
>91% done only 63% to go!
Good one.
Bob . . .
Message 40
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Subject: | Re: RE: Marketing research question Annunciated Parameters |
List
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Annunciated Parameters List
At 04:01 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>Fuel Pres Lo
>Engine (output from an engine monitor, to tell you to look at it to
>see what problem it has found).
Another good one. I'll add it.
Bob . . .
Message 41
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:19 AM 3/9/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> > From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> > points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> > and/or blow in your ear?
> >
> > Main Volts Lo
> > Aux Volts Lo
> > Left Fuel Lo
> > Right Fuel Lo
> > Oil Pres Lo
> > Canopy Latch
> > OAT Warn
> > Pitot Heat
>
>You know, I installed an OAT warning in my RV-4 to let me know when the
>OAT dropped below 0C. It turned out to be a huge annoyance as it would
>go off whether or not there was any chance for ice. And when there was a
>chance of ice and temps below 0C, I already knew without the warning.
>
>This tells me that an OAT warning is not particularly useful. Kind of
>like an ELT: 100 false alarms for one useful alarm.
Good data point. Now an active ice detector . . .
I did some experimenting a few years ago with piezo-electric
speaker-disks. Rigged them up in an oscillator circuit where
the electrical/mass characteristics of the disk determined
frequency. Any addition of mass to the disk (ice accretion)
dropped the frequency or killed the oscillation entirely.
That project never bubbled up to the top of the IR&D interest
list. The last concept was fragile and not terribly esthetic either.
It was a rather strange looking projection from a leading edge
although mounting it on the vertical fin seemed least likely
to offend.
Bob . . .
>--
>Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
>I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>--
>
>
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 42
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:57 AM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder"
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
>Bob -
>
>I would add:
>
>Boost Pump
>Baggage Door
>Ground Power
>Starter Engaged
>Crossfeed
Good.
Message 43
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:54 AM 3/9/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
>
>I know that these functions are not as common on most airplanes, but I
>have them and they could mean the difference. Speed Brakes, Ram Air
>Open, Gear Pump On, (Continental Engines and the New ECI fuel system for
>Lycomings - you don't want the pump left on in normal use - "Fuel Pump
>On")
>
>Food for thought, the Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 has an intergraded
>customizable electronic warning system with audio built into the engine
>system package. Over the last three years I have worked with 30 plus
>owners and all seem to like this type of system. This has prompted an
>engineer friend of mine at Honeywell to come up with a LCD digital stand
>alone annunciator system. If you would like I'll keep you posted on his
>progress.
>
>Mike
Sure! One needs to keep their friends close and their competition
closer . . . but then we're all friends here. It would be interesting
to hear of any insights that can be shared.
Bob . . .
Message 44
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Subject: | Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Emplace a "push-to-test" spring-loaded button next to the annunciator panel
that illuminates the chicklets. Then you can verify not just when the
master initially comes on, but also any time on ground or in flight to
verify function.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Denton
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marketing research question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
A couple of minor points, if I may...
Isn't there some sort of "recommended standard" for the colors to be used
for warning lights and annunciators? I thought I read something about this
recently, but I can't seem to find a link to the article.
Regarding the "dead front" design, let me mention a usability issue from the
computer field that might or might not be relevant in the aviation world:
Consider a computer program with two "screens". When you are on one screen,
you can both "Print" and "Save" data, and there are "buttons" at the top of
the screen that allow you to accomplish this. But on the second page, you
can only "Print" the data. Common sense would dictate that since you can't
save information on the second page, there would be no need to display a
"Save" button; only a "Print" button would be required.
But we determined that users preferred to also have a "Save" button on the
second page, even though it was disabled and non-functional. A consistent
button layout provided more usability than a design in which buttons
appeared and disappeared, which tended to confuse users.
Again, I don't know if this is relevant in the aircraft world, but it might
be worth considering.
One other point regarding the "dead front" design: What about the first-time
or occasional flyer of the airplane? How would they know which parameters
were annunciated, and which would need to be monitored via a gauge or other
indicator?
I assume good practice would dictate that all of the annunciator lights
would be illuminated when the battery master was turned on, then go dark
following engine start. While this would provide some indication of what
parameters would be annunciated, would the first-time or occasional pilot
remember what they were?
None of this may be of any importance whatsoever, but these are the sort of
questions I would want to see asked anytime anything was being designed...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marketing research question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.
A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
both fabrication and software that would make the product
highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
when not illuminated.
Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 45
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|
Subject: | Re: RE: Annunciated Parameters wish list . . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "D Wysong" <hdwysong@gmail.com>
A few more from the turbine community, Bob (... if applicable):
Chip Detect
BVC Fault
Anti-Ice
Fuel Filter
Oil Filter
Fuel Pressure
Gen
All are fault lights on a Caution/Advisory panel that I've stared at
for one too many hours...
D
-------------------
On 3/9/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
> From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
> points of interest might be important enough to light a light
> and/or blow in your ear?
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