Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:41 AM - rivet & rivnut tool (rd2@evenlink.com)
2. 07:19 AM - Re: Market Survey Phase II (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:05 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Dave Morris \)
4. 09:09 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:27 AM - Re: In rush limiters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: Marketing research question (Brian Lloyd)
7. 10:14 AM - Annunciator panel LED brightness (Mickey Coggins)
8. 10:14 AM - B&C SSF-1 finally died (Dan Checkoway)
9. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: Market Survey Phase II (George Braly)
10. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Market Survey Phase II (David Lloyd)
11. 02:38 PM - Starter problem analysis (Jim Michael)
12. 02:46 PM - Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 02:48 PM - Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:36 PM - Re: Starter problem analysis (David Lloyd)
15. 03:43 PM - Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died (Dan Checkoway)
16. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Market Survey Phase II (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 04:03 PM - Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness (Mickey Coggins)
18. 04:37 PM - p-mag wiring (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com)
19. 05:42 PM - Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died (John Schroeder)
20. 06:34 PM - Annuciator Lights Suggestion (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
21. 07:16 PM - Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died (Dan Checkoway)
22. 08:26 PM - Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
23. 10:22 PM - Lightspeed Ignition with Key switch (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
24. 10:24 PM - Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died (Chris & Kellie Hand)
25. 10:56 PM - Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died (Chris & Kellie Hand)
26. 11:09 PM - Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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Subject: | rivet & rivnut tool |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
Thanks, PJ.
I didn't realize/forgot to check - HF has actually several of these tools.
You can't beat 6.99, even if I had to throw it out; especially if it is for
occasional needs.
Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from PJ Seipel; Date: 06:37 PM 3/10/2006 -0500)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PJ Seipel <seipel@seznam.cz>
Don't buy the tool from Aircraft Spruce. I have that one and I hate
it. The swiveling head has been useful once or twice, but it's
definitely not worth $40. Go to Harbor Freight and buy the $6.99 one.
It works great, and you can grind down the front of the head to get into
tight spots.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7356
PJ
Message 2
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Subject: | RE: Market Survey Phase II |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Okay, the list is pretty complete. Now what I need
is your ranking of priorities for items on the list.
FORWARD your response to me directly at nuckollsr@cox.net
instead of to the List. We don't want go snow the list
with a lot of anecdotal posts. Further, I know there are
lots of folks who watch this list that seldom if ever post
to the list. Please give me the benefit of your inputs too.
I need at least 30 and hopefully 50 or more responses to make it
a statistically significant survey. Just add numbers after
the items on the list in order of priority, #1 being highest.
Go out to as many as 20 but the first 9 are most important
followed by the next 3.
I'll wait about a week and then tabulate the data for
publication on the list. If you have any questions as to the
meaning of any item, email me directly.
The wish list now stands at:
Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Fuel Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat
Coolant Temp
Coolant Pres
Coolant Low
Oil Temp
Turbo (control malfunction) (yellow)
Boost pump ON (white)
Fire
Flaps Warn
Fuel Pump ON
Starter engaged
P-Mag Maint
Prop Overspeed
Gear extension Warning
Nose Gear
Lt Mn Gear
Rt Mn Gear
Boost Pump
Baggage Door
Ground Power
Chip Detect
BVC Fault
Anti-Ice
Fuel Filter
Oil Filter
Crossfeed closed
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
I still think Carb Ice is more important than OAT. I have a carb temp
sensor in the throat of my MS carb and it would be a simple matter to read
it out on the annunciator. A carb can ice up in 80 degree OAT weather.
User programmable via PC, yeah, OK, I suppose. Nowadays it's probably
cheaper that way than to install a bunch of trimpots. But if the PC
interface adds cost, I would go the other way.
I would prefer to see user-defined legends on the lights, as opposed to
having a bunch of excess unused lights that mean nothing in my
non-retractable, single fuel tank, fixed pitch prop aircraft.
Angle-of-Attack sensors are also becoming the rage. You could make another
simple interface to the annunciator panel for high AOA.
PM dynamos have an output line for an idiot light. Why not use that to
feed the annunciator to give a warning indication of dynamo failure
independent of any other bus voltage sensing.
All "nukes armed" kidding aside, my requirements would be for a panel that
had these lights: http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel2005.jpg
I had already ordered one of these from a company that produced my switch
panels, and their price was $95. However, they seem to have gone out of
business within the last couple of months, so my "reasonable" price would
probably top out at $300 to $500 depending on how well the panel was
adaptable to my needs.
Dave Morris
At 08:48 PM 3/10/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >I would add:
> >
> >Carb ice
> >Transmitting
> >
> >I presume "Aux Volts Lo" is actually "E-Bus Low", so why not identify it
> >that way?
>
> Because it's Aux Volts Low. When the e-bus is being used
> in it's backup function, it's always low volts . . . battery
> only.
>
> Aux volts is used to watch an aux battery bus to make sure
> that the aux battery contactor has is closed and/or
> has not failed.
>
>
> >I would like to see the lamps triggerable on either:
> >Above a threshold (trimpot settable)
> >Below a threshold (trimpot settable)
>
> The exciting talk right now is to make various functions
> user programmable via graphical user interface running
> out of a PC.
>
>
> >Here's an example of how to fill up 24 slots:
> >http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel.gif
> >
> >I'll buy one if it's reasonably priced.
>
> What's a reasonable price?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:01 AM 3/11/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\""
><BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
>I still think Carb Ice is more important than OAT. I have a carb temp
>sensor in the throat of my MS carb and it would be a simple matter to read
>it out on the annunciator. A carb can ice up in 80 degree OAT weather.
You can weigh in by prioritizing and forwarding you own list . . .
>User programmable via PC, yeah, OK, I suppose. Nowadays it's probably
>cheaper that way than to install a bunch of trimpots. But if the PC
>interface adds cost, I would go the other way.
External GUI on a PC is always the lowest cost end product. The
External software is no mean task either but as far as keeping
size, weight, parts count and price down in the end product,
external programmability is the way to do.
>I would prefer to see user-defined legends on the lights, as opposed to
>having a bunch of excess unused lights that mean nothing in my
>non-retractable, single fuel tank, fixed pitch prop aircraft.
It's been suggested that the survey is more a promotional tool
than a design study. If we were considering a fully programmable
LCD screen device with infinite options, I would agree. The
topic came up at lunch to see what a minimum cost product with
a fixed set of monitored parameters might look like. Of course,
ANY combination could be offered as a customized product . . .
but folks who can afford my exorbitant consulting fees would probably
go get some super-whizzy off-the-shelf product.
I don't know that this product will ever come into being in
our shop. This is a what-if-how-when-and-why discussion that makes
a whole lot more sense if a potential consumer based participates
than if we sat around and an hypothesized as to what's wanted/needed.
And as I said, I'll publish the results of the survey here.
Any entrepreneur who wants to capitalize on the conversation
and subsequent data are welcome to jump in.
>Angle-of-Attack sensors are also becoming the rage. You could make another
>simple interface to the annunciator panel for high AOA.
I'm not aware of any stand-alone-sensors that us po' folk could
afford . . . and don't most turn-key systems offer built in
alarm functions?
>PM dynamos have an output line for an idiot light. Why not use that to
>feed the annunciator to give a warning indication of dynamo failure
>independent of any other bus voltage sensing.
repeat after me . . . ACTIVE NOTIFICATION OF LOW VOLTAGE AT THE
BUS IS THE SIMPLE-IDEA DEFINITION OF AN INACTIVE POWER GENERATION
SYSTEM.
The problem with the plethora of 'warning' functions built into
the various products, I have neither the access or the time to
invest in vetting each of those features as to functionality,
reliability, etc. A pre-flight testable, active notification system
that's independent of the power generation system or it's accessories
works all the time, every time with any combination of system hardware.
>All "nukes armed" kidding aside, my requirements would be for a panel that
>had these lights: http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel2005.jpg
>I had already ordered one of these from a company that produced my switch
>panels, and their price was $95. However, they seem to have gone out of
>business within the last couple of months, so my "reasonable" price would
>probably top out at $300 to $500 depending on how well the panel was
>adaptable to my needs.
I'm guessing of course but at $95 each, they'd have to sell a boat-load
of those so as to make up for the losses in volume . . .
If you'd care to convert the .jpg data into a prioritized listing, I'd
be pleased to include your preferences in the calculation of market
survey data.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: In rush limiters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 02:29 AM 3/11/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
><dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
>I'm looking at the in-rush limiters that you recommend installing in the
>landing light circuit Bob. These look like the old mica capacitors you used
>to see in tube televisions. I have a bit of trepidation about how to mount
>these securely and make a secure connection to the landing light wiring.
>Any suggestions here? Solder and heat shrink in line with the wire seems a
>bit flimsy and floppy to me, what would you recommend?
>
>Anyone else on the list using in-rush limiters? How did you mount them and
>what are your experiences so far?
>
>Also I have an aluminum aircraft (RV-6A) and plan to ground the landing,
>taxi and position lights locally on the spar at the wingtip. From your
>comments and your book it doesn't sound like this will be a problem if I
>make good solid gas-tight connections. Any additional words of wisdom here?
>Thanks.
On Digikey catalog page:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1327.pdf
we find this data:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/GE_Sensors/GE_Inrush_Limiters.jpg
These used to be the Keystone Carbon Co. products and have been
around for a long time. I used them on the GP-180 taxi and recognition
lights. The first time experimental techs turned on the taxi light
with a KC003 limiter in series, the thing 'blew up'. Seems he mounted
the limiter to the inside surface of the taxi light fixture on the landing
gear. It was held down with a very robust clamp worthy of installation on
the nose gear of an aircraft. The mounting sinked out so much heat that
the device wasn't allowed to warm up to its very low resistance, low
wattage 'hot' mode so it self-destructed.
I bought some Fiberglas sleeving (actually door gasket material
for wood burning stoves) and we fabricated a mechanically robust
but thermally isolated mounting for the KC003. Worked just fine after
that. Inrush on the lamp dropped from 60+ down to about 10A.
Pick a limiter with a max steady state current equal to or as much
as 1/3 higher than your operating current. Wrap it up in some
thermally appropriate materials to clamp it for support. You're correct,
the solid copper lead wires are not looked upon with favor in
aircraft fabrication techniques. I'd cut them of to about 1/4", then make
little loops for soldering 22759 leadwires.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Marketing research question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Dave Morris "BigD" wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
>
> I still think Carb Ice is more important than OAT. I have a carb temp
> sensor in the throat of my MS carb and it would be a simple matter to read
> it out on the annunciator. A carb can ice up in 80 degree OAT weather.
And the carb can reach an OAT of 0C just downstream of the throat
without producing ice. If the temp has not reached the dew-point for the
air passing through, you won't get ice as the moisture will not come out
of the air.
This is why temperature, either carb or OAT, is not particularly useful
for determining icing conditions. Certainly you cannot have ice when the
temps are above 0C but you are not going to have ice below 0C if there
is no visible moisture. And carb ice will form only if you have visible
moisture *after* the temp drop in the throat of the carb.
As I said in a previous post, a temp-only warning is just flat out
annoying as it says "wolf" a lot more often that it every gives you
useful information. I eventually disabled my carb air temp warning and
my OAT warning as they proved to be pretty useless.
> Angle-of-Attack sensors are also becoming the rage. You could make another
> simple interface to the annunciator panel for high AOA.
The problem with annunciator panels is they are not part of the normal
scan, especially in VFR operations. I suspect that most people with AoA
indicators are going to put the AoA display in their primary scan even
when they are 'heads-up' (looking outside). Then the annunciator is not
in view and an AoA alert would cause them to look inside.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 7
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Subject: | Annunciator panel LED brightness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
All this talk about annunciator panels has got
me thinking about mine. Looking at the LEDs
on eBay, I'm wondering what brightness of
LEDs I should use? Anyone have any suggestions?
These guys http://www.superbrightleds.com/leds.htm
show LEDs from about 1500 mcd up to 18,000 mcd.
This offer on eBay shows 27,000 mcd. I'm planning
to have the LEDs behind some colored plastic
covers. Obviously I'd like them to be visible
during the day, and dimmable to something reasonable
at night. Not sure how far down a LED can be
dimmed.
Thanks for any suggestions.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 8
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Subject: | B&C SSF-1 finally died |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
After 834 hobbs hours of nearly continuous use, my B&C SSF-1 wig-wag flasher
died. I can either plunk down another $22 for a drop-in replacement, or I
could explore cheaper options.
I found a Trident auto flasher that *looks* pretty much identical, but they
say it has a "Design Life" of 500 hours. If it's the same as the SSF-1,
that would be one way to save about 9 bucks.
http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?11850
I'm not looking for anything fancy, like the CreativAir setup. I want a
3-wire (+12v, load 1, load 2) drop-in replacement. I wouldn't mind
soldering it up myself but I don't have the expertise to "design" one. Will
probably go with another B&C SSF-1, but would love to be able to
solder-it-myself and/or save some bucks. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (834 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 9
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Subject: | RE: Market Survey Phase II |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
Bob,
I think it might be better to, initially, group the items into HIGH,
MED, LOW priority.
I have added a category for " ? " because either I don't understand
it, or because it would totally depend upon the installation specific
criticality of the function to be alarmed.
H = HIGH priority, M = Medium, L = Low, as follows.
H Main Volts Lo
M Aux Volts Lo
M Left Fuel Lo
M Right Fuel Lo
H Oil Pres Lo
H Fuel Pres Lo
? Canopy Latch
L OAT Warn
L Pitot Heat
H Coolant Temp
H Coolant Pres
H Coolant Low
H Oil Temp
M Turbo (control malfunction) (yellow)
L Boost pump ON (white)
H Fire
L Flaps Warn
L Fuel Pump ON
H Starter engaged
L P-Mag Maint
L Prop Overspeed
H Gear extension Warning
H Nose Gear
H Lt Mn Gear
H Rt Mn Gear
L Boost Pump
? Baggage Door
L Ground Power
H ? Chip Detect
? BVC Fault
? Anti-Ice
? Fuel Filter
L Oil Filter
? Crossfeed closed
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: RE: Market Survey Phase II |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
I like George's category suggestion and offer my priorities.
David
>
> H = HIGH priority, M = Medium, L = Low, as follows.
>
>
> H Main Volts Lo
H Main Volts Hi
>
> L Aux Volts Lo
>
> L Left Fuel Lo
>
> L Right Fuel Lo
>
> H Oil Pres Lo
>
> H Fuel Pres Lo
>
> ? Canopy Latch
>
> L OAT Warn
>
> L Pitot Heat
>
> ? Coolant Temp
>
> ? Coolant Pres
>
> ? Coolant Low
>
> H Oil Temp Hi
>
> M Turbo (control malfunction) (yellow)
>
> L Boost pump ON (white)
>
> H Fire
>
> L Flaps Warn
>
> H Fuel Pump ON
>
> H Starter engaged
>
> L P-Mag Maint
>
> L Prop Overspeed
>
> H Gear extension Warning
>
> H Nose Gear
>
> H Lt Mn Gear
>
> H Rt Mn Gear
>
> H Boost Pump
>
> ? Baggage Door
>
> L Ground Power
>
> H ? Chip Detect
>
> ? BVC Fault
>
> ? Anti-Ice
>
> ? Fuel Filter
>
> L Oil Filter
>
> ? Crossfeed closed
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Market Survey Phase II
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly"
> <gwbraly@gami.com>
>
> Bob,
>
> I think it might be better to, initially, group the items into
> HIGH,
> MED, LOW priority.
>
> I have added a category for " ? " because either I don't
> understand
> it, or because it would totally depend upon the installation
> specific
> criticality of the function to be alarmed.
>
>
> H = HIGH priority, M = Medium, L = Low, as follows.
>
>
> H Main Volts Lo
>
> M Aux Volts Lo
>
> M Left Fuel Lo
>
> M Right Fuel Lo
>
> H Oil Pres Lo
>
> H Fuel Pres Lo
>
> ? Canopy Latch
>
> L OAT Warn
>
> L Pitot Heat
>
> H Coolant Temp
>
> H Coolant Pres
>
> H Coolant Low
>
> H Oil Temp
>
> M Turbo (control malfunction) (yellow)
>
> L Boost pump ON (white)
>
> H Fire
>
> L Flaps Warn
>
> L Fuel Pump ON
>
> H Starter engaged
>
> L P-Mag Maint
>
> L Prop Overspeed
>
> H Gear extension Warning
>
> H Nose Gear
>
> H Lt Mn Gear
>
> H Rt Mn Gear
>
> L Boost Pump
>
> ? Baggage Door
>
> L Ground Power
>
> H ? Chip Detect
>
> ? BVC Fault
>
> ? Anti-Ice
>
> ? Fuel Filter
>
> L Oil Filter
>
> ? Crossfeed closed
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Starter problem analysis |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Michael <jm@10squaredcorp.com>
I am trying to troubleshoot a problem with the starter on my Stinson.
The problem seems to occur only when the engine is hot. When the
engine is cold the engine turns over fine. When hot, the starter acts
like it's trying to turn and after multiple attempts it will finally
start turning over. I've read that this is a low voltage condition
and I've taken some voltage readings with the engine cold:
Prior to charging battery: 12.38 VDC at the terminals
After charging battery: 12.87 VDC at the terminals
Battery voltage at terminals while cranking: 10.4 VDC
Voltage across starter while cranking: 9.8 VDC
Voltage across master and starter solenoid while cranking: < 1 VDC
The ground connection consists of a cable from the battery to the
engine mount and from another engine mount point to the engine via a
ground strap.
I plan to take a meter and test leads with me to get some readings the
next time the problem arises, but do these readings indicate a
problem with the starter or battery?
I hope this is the right forum for this question, if not please
forgive the intrusion.
Thanks,
Jim
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:10 AM 3/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>After 834 hobbs hours of nearly continuous use, my B&C SSF-1 wig-wag flasher
>died. I can either plunk down another $22 for a drop-in replacement, or I
>could explore cheaper options.
>
>I found a Trident auto flasher that *looks* pretty much identical, but they
>say it has a "Design Life" of 500 hours. If it's the same as the SSF-1,
>that would be one way to save about 9 bucks.
>http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?11850
>
>I'm not looking for anything fancy, like the CreativAir setup. I want a
>3-wire (+12v, load 1, load 2) drop-in replacement. I wouldn't mind
>soldering it up myself but I don't have the expertise to "design" one. Will
>probably go with another B&C SSF-1, but would love to be able to
>solder-it-myself and/or save some bucks. Any ideas?
The SSF-1 is a heavy duty automotive device. I've not researched
it in detail but it's a fair bet that the pinout is the same
as for other flashers having the same pin size and spacing.
Odds are that the item you've cited above (or similar from local
parts store) will work.
Solder? I thought that 1/4" fast-on tabs fit those
flashers. Why is there any soldering involved?
As to "saving" money, what's your time worth? You may
spend several hours locating a substitute, there is
risk (small) that the sub doesn't work, etc. Not trying
to talk you out of trying something new and different
but if cost is the biggest driver for your decision,
the sub may be less than a bargain.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:07 PM 3/11/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>All this talk about annunciator panels has got
>me thinking about mine. Looking at the LEDs
>on eBay, I'm wondering what brightness of
>LEDs I should use? Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>These guys http://www.superbrightleds.com/leds.htm
>show LEDs from about 1500 mcd up to 18,000 mcd.
>This offer on eBay shows 27,000 mcd. I'm planning
>to have the LEDs behind some colored plastic
>covers. Obviously I'd like them to be visible
>during the day, and dimmable to something reasonable
>at night. Not sure how far down a LED can be
>dimmed.
As bright as you can get. You can always make them
less but never make them more.
LEDs can be dimmed from any maximum output all the
way down to invisible . . . the major problem is
that they're CURRENT operated devices, not VOLTAGE.
Duty cycle switching at full operating current is
the most practical way to dim them (if our annunciator
comes into being, it will have a DIM input that tracks
the incandescent lamp dimming curve based on voltage.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Starter problem analysis |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Jim,
I would suspicious that there is something worn, wrong with the
armature and or its bearings. Maybe, some part of windings are loose
and expand with heat such that it physically contacts the surrounding
structures. Could be just worn bearings that combined with run-out
allows the armature to partially jam when hot, but, just clears when
cold.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Michael" <jm@10squaredcorp.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Starter problem analysis
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Michael
> <jm@10squaredcorp.com>
>
> I am trying to troubleshoot a problem with the starter on my
> Stinson.
> The problem seems to occur only when the engine is hot. When the
> engine is cold the engine turns over fine. When hot, the starter
> acts
> like it's trying to turn and after multiple attempts it will finally
> start turning over. I've read that this is a low voltage condition
> and I've taken some voltage readings with the engine cold:
>
> Prior to charging battery: 12.38 VDC at the terminals
> After charging battery: 12.87 VDC at the terminals
> Battery voltage at terminals while cranking: 10.4 VDC
> Voltage across starter while cranking: 9.8 VDC
> Voltage across master and starter solenoid while cranking: < 1 VDC
>
> The ground connection consists of a cable from the battery to the
> engine mount and from another engine mount point to the engine via a
> ground strap.
>
> I plan to take a meter and test leads with me to get some readings
> the
> next time the problem arises, but do these readings indicate a
> problem with the starter or battery?
>
> I hope this is the right forum for this question, if not please
> forgive the intrusion.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>>I'm not looking for anything fancy, like the CreativAir setup. I want a
>>3-wire (+12v, load 1, load 2) drop-in replacement. I wouldn't mind
>>soldering it up myself but I don't have the expertise to "design" one.
>>Will
>>probably go with another B&C SSF-1, but would love to be able to
>>solder-it-myself and/or save some bucks. Any ideas?
>
> (snip)
>
> Solder? I thought that 1/4" fast-on tabs fit those
> flashers. Why is there any soldering involved?
Yeah, 1/4" fast-on tabs do fit. What I meant was that if there was some
low-cost "kit" that lets you solder up a circuit that serves the same
purpose, I'd be interested in finding out about it. Even if the price was
close, I'd probably still prefer the "experience" assembling something
myself. Like the magneto timer kit I soldered up. And like the CO sensor
kit that I soldered up. I mean, I did build a plane after all...some people
buy planes instead of build them because their time is more valuable than
experience. Pardon me for extending that logic to minutia like flashers!!
> As to "saving" money, what's your time worth? You may
> spend several hours locating a substitute, there is
> risk (small) that the sub doesn't work, etc. Not trying
> to talk you out of trying something new and different
> but if cost is the biggest driver for your decision,
> the sub may be less than a bargain.
Agreed. I was just researching options. I appreciate the single data point
that you've now given me, that the SSF-1 is the best option in your opinion.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: RE: Market Survey Phase II |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Understand, but not helpful. If one is going to do a statistical
analysis on data, the data have to be offered in the same form by
every participant. What I need is a 1 to 12 listing of the most important
items. If you want to call your "H" items 1-4 and "M" items 5-7 and
"L" times 8-12, that's fine too but the responses useful to me will
be numbered.
It's interesting that out of the 10 responses received so far, only
4 are useful to the task at hand.
Bob . . .
At 02:26 PM 3/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>
>I like George's category suggestion and offer my priorities.
>David
> >
> > H = HIGH priority, M = Medium, L = Low, as follows.
> >
> >
> > H Main Volts Lo
> H Main Volts Hi
> >
> > L Aux Volts Lo
> >
> > L Left Fuel Lo
> >
> > L Right Fuel Lo
> >
> > H Oil Pres Lo
> >
> > H Fuel Pres Lo
> >
> > ? Canopy Latch
> >
> > L OAT Warn
> >
> > L Pitot Heat
> >
> > ? Coolant Temp
> >
> > ? Coolant Pres
> >
> > ? Coolant Low
> >
> > H Oil Temp Hi
> >
> > M Turbo (control malfunction) (yellow)
> >
> > L Boost pump ON (white)
> >
> > H Fire
> >
> > L Flaps Warn
> >
> > H Fuel Pump ON
> >
> > H Starter engaged
> >
> > L P-Mag Maint
> >
> > L Prop Overspeed
> >
> > H Gear extension Warning
> >
> > H Nose Gear
> >
> > H Lt Mn Gear
> >
> > H Rt Mn Gear
> >
> > H Boost Pump
> >
> > ? Baggage Door
> >
> > L Ground Power
> >
> > H ? Chip Detect
> >
> > ? BVC Fault
> >
> > ? Anti-Ice
> >
> > ? Fuel Filter
> >
> > L Oil Filter
> >
> > ? Crossfeed closed
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> As bright as you can get. You can always make them
> less but never make them more.
Thanks. I ordered a bunch of the 40,000 mcd LEDs,
holders, and resistors from these guys:
http://www.besthongkong.com/
Pretty good prices.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 18
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com
Bob:
My level of electrical knowledge is pretty limited, but is it possible that
Figure Z-33 in the 'Connection showing wiring for P-mags has an error?
Z-33 has the p-mag wires labeled by color (grn, red orn, and blk). Power
appears to be supplied to the p-mag from the bat bus through the "orn" wire
when the 2-10 switch is in the up position.
Comparing to the e-magair manual - see pgs 4 and 15 in
http://www.emagair.com/Manual%20L113v8.pdf
the manual seems to indicate that +13.8V power would be supplied by the red
wire (postion 5 on the control plug), and that the "orn" wire (position 4
on the plug) is the P-lead to ground (NOT power). The blk and grn wires
are for ground and tach respectively, consistent with Z-33.
Did I catch you, or am I just too hung up on wire colors?
While I got you cornered (?), I am unclear on how the additional switch you
suggest for ign maintenance would be used. When closed, it appears to
supply power from the bat bus to the p-mags while the two ignition switches
are in the off position. Okay, but what does this do for me?
still learning...
Erich Weaver
This e-mail and any attachments are confidential. If you receive this
message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should not retain,
distribute, disclose or use any of this information and you should destroy
the e-mail and any attachments or copies.
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Dan -
Which CO kit did you build? Where to get it? How much?
Thanks,
John Schroeder
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:41:38 -0800, Dan Checkoway <dan@rvproject.com>
wrote:
> And like the CO sensor
> kit that I soldered up. I mean, I did build a plane after all...
--
Message 20
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Subject: | Annuciator Lights Suggestion |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
How about: Gattling Guns Blazing or, Bombs Away ;-) Sorry I couldn't
resist.
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Which CO kit did you build? Where to get it? How much?
http://www.electronic-kits-and-projects.com/4055.htm
I did a group buy with a bunch of local RV builders, so we took advantage of
the 5+ discount and the int'l shipping ended up being essentially
negligible.
Soldered it up and tested it with my truck exhaust, acetone vapor, etc. It
seems to work as advertised, although I have to admit I haven't even
installed it in the plane yet! (doh!)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
If you folks are really interested in a cheap (pretty sure I have less than
$30 in the thing), very effective annunciator panel, this has worked out very
well for me- after almost 300 hours I haven't missed a single "annunciation"
and couldn't be happier with the reliability, brightness, or anything else for
that matter of this very basic, functional and easy to build project:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5130
Scroll backwards and forwards through the log entrys for the whole story. I
you want a custom a-panel at minimum cost, and a fun, interesting project to
put together, this silly little thing definately fit the bill for me.....
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
Message 23
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Subject: | Lightspeed Ignition with Key switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
I've been looking at my drawings one more time before actually wiring this
up. I have one (Slick) magneto and one Lightspeed Plasma II+. I was hoping
to hook them BOTH to the standard aircraft key switch (A-510-2) but in
looking at it again, I'm not sure that will work. If I connect the Plasma
II+ at the key switch ground (GRD) and the "R" terminal I have a usable
connection. If however, I want to also connect the Left Magneto P-lead to
the switch then I have to connect the center conductor of the magneto P-lead
to the "L" terminal and the "P" Lead shield to the switch "GRD" connection.
The only problem with this is that the other end of the magneto P-lead
shield will have to be grounded out at the magneto case which, I believe,
would effectively ground it to the airframe and battery negative potential.
According to a note on Lightspeed's connection diagram, the Plasma II+ key
switch wiring can NOT be connected to airframe ground.
So...it appears to me that I cannot connect both the Plasma II+ and a
magneto P-lead to the same key switch!? For you folks running this same set
up, do I understand this correctly or am I missing something? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Autocad psychosis
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand@earthlink.net>
Dan,
I installed mine (first one - zero hours) a couple weeks ago and wrote down
the part identification info before gluing that side of the flasher to the
mounting plate. Haven't tried any auto parts stores to see if they carry a
replacement, but it was identified as:
TRIDON EL13 A-2
ALT/FLASHER
150 W/channel, +12 V
SAE J105
1254C2
Chris Hand
RV-6A, N731CK (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C SSF-1 finally died
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> After 834 hobbs hours of nearly continuous use, my B&C SSF-1 wig-wag
> flasher
> died. I can either plunk down another $22 for a drop-in replacement, or I
> could explore cheaper options.
>
> I found a Trident auto flasher that *looks* pretty much identical, but
> they
> say it has a "Design Life" of 500 hours. If it's the same as the SSF-1,
> that would be one way to save about 9 bucks.
> http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?11850
>
> I'm not looking for anything fancy, like the CreativAir setup. I want a
> 3-wire (+12v, load 1, load 2) drop-in replacement. I wouldn't mind
> soldering it up myself but I don't have the expertise to "design" one.
> Will
> probably go with another B&C SSF-1, but would love to be able to
> solder-it-myself and/or save some bucks. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (834 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: B&C SSF-1 finally died |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand@earthlink.net>
Additional data:
Trico lists the EL13A-2 flasher (B&C's SSF-1 if I read the part numbers
correctly) as the one recommended for alternating head lamps with a service
life of 400 hours:
http://www.tricoproducts.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=289&location_id=129&go=preset210trico
Trico lists the EL13A-1 flasher (the one at the midway link in Dan's email)
as a 500 hour service life and lists the emergency flasher as recommended
application but doesn't mention head lamps as a recommended application:
http://www.tricoproducts.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=288&location_id=129&go=preset209trico
I did find the EL13A-2 flasher on the midway web site for $12.99 and they
list "wig-wag headlights" as the application :
http://www.midwayautosupply.com/searchby.asp?txtSearch=TRI-EL13A-2
Chris Hand
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C SSF-1 finally died
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris & Kellie Hand"
> <ckhand@earthlink.net>
>
> Dan,
> I installed mine (first one - zero hours) a couple weeks ago and wrote
> down
> the part identification info before gluing that side of the flasher to the
> mounting plate. Haven't tried any auto parts stores to see if they carry
> a
> replacement, but it was identified as:
>
> TRIDON EL13 A-2
> ALT/FLASHER
> 150 W/channel, +12 V
> SAE J105
> 1254C2
>
>
> Chris Hand
> RV-6A, N731CK (reserved)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:10 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C SSF-1 finally died
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
>> <dan@rvproject.com>
>>
>> After 834 hobbs hours of nearly continuous use, my B&C SSF-1 wig-wag
>> flasher
>> died. I can either plunk down another $22 for a drop-in replacement, or
>> I
>> could explore cheaper options.
>>
>> I found a Trident auto flasher that *looks* pretty much identical, but
>> they
>> say it has a "Design Life" of 500 hours. If it's the same as the SSF-1,
>> that would be one way to save about 9 bucks.
>> http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?11850
>>
>> I'm not looking for anything fancy, like the CreativAir setup. I want a
>> 3-wire (+12v, load 1, load 2) drop-in replacement. I wouldn't mind
>> soldering it up myself but I don't have the expertise to "design" one.
>> Will
>> probably go with another B&C SSF-1, but would love to be able to
>> solder-it-myself and/or save some bucks. Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> )_( Dan
>> RV-7 N714D (834 hours)
>> http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Annunciator panel LED brightness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> If you folks are really interested in a cheap (pretty sure I have less than
> $30 in the thing), very effective annunciator panel, this has worked out very
> well for me- after almost 300 hours I haven't missed a single "annunciation"
> and couldn't be happier with the reliability, brightness, or anything else for
> that matter of this very basic, functional and easy to build project:
>
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5130
>
Mark,
Very nice work. If I understand the drawing and the log entries,
you have set up two positions for the annunciator - bright and
dim - is this right?
Is the timer module to cause the low fuel lights to flash?
If you don't mind sending me the .dwg that would be great. I
can't quite read all the part numbers.
Thanks,
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
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