---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/16/06: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:07 AM - Battery contactors and diodes . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 08:18 AM - Re: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) (Dan Beadle) 3. 10:56 AM - Re: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) (Mark Doble) 4. 12:02 PM - OT Translation question (Gilles Thesee) 5. 12:51 PM - Re: OT Translation question (Matt Prather) 6. 12:52 PM - Re: OT Translation question (Kelly McMullen) 7. 01:08 PM - Re: OT Translation question (Brian Lloyd) 8. 02:36 PM - Re: OT Translation question (Gilles Thesee) 9. 07:43 PM - Batt Charger/voltmeter/ammeter/temp (Speedy11@aol.com) 10. 09:18 PM - 5V regulated supply (Tim Olson) 11. 09:52 PM - Wire Gauge? (Chris Byrne) 12. 11:02 PM - Re: 5V regulated supply (Brian Lloyd) 13. 11:23 PM - Re: Wire Gauge? (Mickey Coggins) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:14 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery contactors and diodes . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >Comments/Questions: Bob, >I'm using the Z16. I have a White-Rodgers 70-111226 5 Coil 12vDC cont >battery relay. Will this work? I guess the real question is, does the >White-Rodgers relay have the spike supression diode that is shown in the >schematic? Am I making sense? Very few contactors come with the diode installed. The S702-1 starter contactor from B&C is one example. The S701 series (Stancor/White-Rogers) does not. Photos on my website like: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/s701-2.jpg and . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/s701-1.jpg Illustrate how the diodes are installed externally for various applications. Yes, the contactor you've cited is suitable to the task of battery master relay in Figure z-16 I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to share the information with as many folks as possible. A further benefit can be realized with membership on the list. There are lots of technically capable folks on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can join at . . . http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ Thanks! Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- Bob . . . < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) From: "Dan Beadle" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" This is basically how fire bottle systems work. They have a fixed temp switch placed in various areas of the engine compartment. Most trigger around 430 degrees - well hotter than a hot cylinder. In my airplane they are aft of the cylinder baffles. Generally, monitoring ambient is a good way to detect fire. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 3/9/06 12:05:00 PM Central Standard Time, sportav8r@aol.com writes: > On a serious note, how about a FWF fire annunciator? > >>>>> Has anyone considered or tried a thermocouple centered on the cowl outlet to monitor air temp? An AUX channel on EIS could monitor sensor with upper limit setting at some value above normal ops to possibly serve this purpose... Mark do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:54 AM PST US From: "Mark Doble" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Doble" My engine monitor uses dallas one wire temperature sensors on a bus that you can scatter around the plane... i keep one in the engine compartment with an alert set at the max temp the sensor supports....125C or 257F. I usually see temps (just behind my plenum about 6" and in free air) at about 125-140F.... nice thing is that you can plug and play the sensors since they are recognized at engine monitor startup. i dont know if i would make this an automatic system....but would hook up the extinguisher to a switch that can be turned on once the alert from the sensor is triggered and you get a voice annunciation in the headset....so there is a human in the loop...and no unwanted halon discharge. you can see some details at www.stratologic.net. cheers, Mark. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Beadle Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" --> This is basically how fire bottle systems work. They have a fixed temp switch placed in various areas of the engine compartment. Most trigger around 430 degrees - well hotter than a hot cylinder. In my airplane they are aft of the cylinder baffles. Generally, monitoring ambient is a good way to detect fire. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: FWF fire annunciator (was market research) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 3/9/06 12:05:00 PM Central Standard Time, sportav8r@aol.com writes: > On a serious note, how about a FWF fire annunciator? > >>>>> Has anyone considered or tried a thermocouple centered on the cowl outlet to monitor air temp? An AUX channel on EIS could monitor sensor with upper limit setting at some value above normal ops to possibly serve this purpose... Mark do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:39 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: AeroElectric-List: OT Translation question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Hi Bob and all, A fellow builders in my area is having problems translating the expression "runner-log-branch", in the following paragraph from G.Braly on TC engine mixture problems. > > > < > the runner log-branch induction systems. The pattern is consistently > > observed because it is a result of the inherent design of the runner > > log-branch induction system. >> > I know what induction runners are, but I'm at loss accurately rendering the expression. Anyone care to put this into clearer words for us non naturally English speakers ? The following may be similar to the text my buddy is translating : http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/Vibration/Vibnet.pdf Any input appreciated, Thanks in advance Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT Translation question From: "Matt Prather" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Gilles, Most (all?) of the big bore Continentals (TCM) have the induction system split into two halves - one for each side of the engine. Each half essentially consists of a single large aluminum tube oriented to run near the intake port on each cylinder. This is the 'log.' There's an opening in the 'log' immediately under the each cylinder's port. Individual tubes connect from each cylinder port to its respective opening on the 'log'. These are the 'branches'. In reality, the 'runner-log-branch' is formed in segments from aluminum T's. The center of each T connects to the cylinder port. The sides of each T connects to the adjacent cylinder on each side (or to a tube that goes to the carburetor or the crossover). A picture is worth 1k words: http://a1aero.com/files/DSCN0662.JPG The 'log' is connected together by the orange hoses in the picture. Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > > > Hi Bob and all, > > A fellow builders in my area is having problems translating the > expression "runner-log-branch", in the following paragraph from G.Braly > on TC engine mixture problems. > > > > > > < the runner log-branch induction systems. The pattern is > consistently observed because it is a result of the inherent design > of the runner log-branch induction system. >> > > > > > I know what induction runners are, but I'm at loss accurately rendering > the expression. > Anyone care to put this into clearer words for us non naturally English > speakers ? > > The following may be similar to the text my buddy is translating : > > http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/Vibration/Vibnet.pdf > > Any input appreciated, > Thanks in advance > > Regards, > Gilles Thesee > Grenoble, France > http://contrails.free.fr > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:23 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT Translation question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen The engines referred to have a cylindrical tube that runs parallel to the crankshaft on the outside, below the cylinder heads,(on both sides of the engine) that is the induction manifold. There is an individual runner from that tube to each cylinder, and a runner at the front of the engine connecting the two tubes. It sort of loosely looks like a wooden log, with branches or runners coming from it. That is what makes it different from the Lycoming type intakes where you have a single plenum, usually as part of the oil sump, with individual manifold tubes to each cylinder. Do Not Archive Quoting Gilles Thesee : > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > > > Hi Bob and all, > > A fellow builders in my area is having problems translating the > expression "runner-log-branch", in the following paragraph from G.Braly > on TC engine mixture problems. > > > > > > < > > the runner log-branch induction systems. The pattern is consistently > > > observed because it is a result of the inherent design of the runner > > > log-branch induction system. >> > > > > > I know what induction runners are, but I'm at loss accurately rendering > the expression. > Anyone care to put this into clearer words for us non naturally English > speakers ? > > The following may be similar to the text my buddy is translating : > > http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/Vibration/Vibnet.pdf > > Any input appreciated, > Thanks in advance > > Regards, > Gilles Thesee > Grenoble, France > http://contrails.free.fr > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:23 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT Translation question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Gilles Thesee wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > > Hi Bob and all, > > A fellow builders in my area is having problems translating the > expression "runner-log-branch", in the following paragraph from G.Braly > on TC engine mixture problems. > > > > > > < > > the runner log-branch induction systems. The pattern is consistently > > > observed because it is a result of the inherent design of the runner > > > log-branch induction system. >> > > > > > I know what induction runners are, but I'm at loss accurately rendering > the expression. > Anyone care to put this into clearer words for us non naturally English > speakers ? The "runner log" is somewhat like the trunk of a tree. It is larger in diameter and straight. The actual induction tubes that go to each cylinder "branch" off the "log" just like the branches of a tree. The name is intended to convey a picture of a wood log with branches coming off of it. This is used to describe the older, non-tuned induction system used on TCM engines. The problem is that not every cylinder receives the same amount of air and fuel which results in differences in power output and mixture at each cylinder. Newer engines have a tuned induction system that does a better job of getting air to each cylinder. Each cylinder receives (almost) the same amount of air and the injection system ensures that each cylinder receives the same amount of fuel. The whole idea behind GAMI's custom injection nozzles is to match the fuel flow to the airflow at each cylinder, thus ensuring that each cylinder receives *exactly* the same fuel-air mixture. This then makes lean-of-peak operation possible. Brian Lloyd brian-yak@lloyd.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:17 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT Translation question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Matt, Kelly, Brian, Thanks a lot for your explanations and picture. Things are much clearer now. So it really was a wooden log...I was not so far, after all ;-) Thanks again, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:31 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batt Charger/voltmeter/ammeter/temp --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com Listers, Anyone have experience with this product? http://www.customdynamics.com/kisan-battery-charger.htm Is it any good? Stan Sutterfield ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:30 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: AeroElectric-List: 5V regulated supply --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson I'm looking to build/buy a simple regulated supply for my normally AC powered Audio/Video players for in the airplane. I could use an inverter, and then their AC supplies, but what I'd prefer to do is just take the 12V in, and get 5V out. I just tried using the 7805 3-pin T0-220 regulator from Radio Shack (was unable to use a heatsink in the test), and one of them wouldn't push enough current to drive one of my 2 devices. 2 of them in parallel would drive it, but it wouldn't play through a movie. Is there some heavier duty package that has worked well for people in the past? I'd like to make it portable, so I can take it in the car. In the end, I'll have 1 lighter plug, driving 2 LCD headrest monitors, 1 video splitter, and 2 MP3/Video players. One of the players had an AC supply that says 5V@1A, and the other says 5V@2A, so I would have thought the 7805 had a fighting chance, but I guess that's with a heatsink or something. Tim -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:38 PM PST US From: "Chris Byrne" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Gauge? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Byrne" Can someone help me with determining the gauge of some cable I have please. #1. 1666 / .12mm I assume this means 1666 strands of .12mm each. (the wire bundle is 1/4 inch in DIA) #2. 630 / .12mm. I assume this means 630 strands of .12mm each. (wire bundle is 3/16 in DIA) It is very flexible and easy to work with. It was bought from a auto electrician a couple of years ago. I am hoping the larger one is 2 or 4 gauge. If this stuff is not big enough and I have to go to the welding supply place for my cable how do I determine the gauge of their cable, I don't think it is marked in gauges. Thanks. Chris Byrne Sydney ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:24 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 5V regulated supply --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Tim Olson wrote: > One of the players had an AC supply that says 5V@1A, and the > other says 5V@2A, so I would have thought the 7805 had a > fighting chance, but I guess that's with a heatsink or something. Yes. If you look around you can find 12V-in-5V-out switching supplies. That is what you really want. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:56 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Gauge? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Byrne" > > Can someone help me with determining the gauge of some cable I have please. > ... Hi Chris, Perhaps this link will help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge Make sure you put a flame to some of the wire to make sure it does not have any nasty characteristics. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing