Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - Re: Gas Detector Sensor (Carlos Trigo)
2. 04:30 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (Glen Matejcek)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Harley)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (Dave Morris \)
5. 06:45 AM - (Nancy Ghertner)
6. 07:09 AM - Vans type alternator (Bill Bradburry)
7. 07:26 AM - Re: (Ralph E. Capen)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: Thermal wire stripper? (Mark R Steitle)
9. 07:41 AM - Re: (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
10. 07:48 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (steveadams)
11. 07:49 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (Brinker)
12. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Jim Baker)
13. 08:40 AM - Securing Your Airplane ()
14. 10:30 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (steveadams)
15. 04:23 PM - Re: UV Light (Boddicker)
16. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (G McNutt)
Message 1
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Cc: <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
| Subject: | Re: Gas Detector Sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Mickey
Thanks for your offer.
My address is
CARLOS TRIGO
Rua dos Cravos, 424
2750-225 CASCAIS
PORTUGAL
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Gas Detector Sensor
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
> <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>> I will replace the LED, but my (electronic ignorant guy) question is: how
>> can I put a blinking red LED? Is it the type of LED or anything else I
>> should add to make the LED blink?
>
> Carlos, if you send me your postal address I can send you a
> blinking red LED. I bought some from Fry's last time I
> was in the US, but I'm not going to use them. They take
> 12v input - I hope that's what you need.
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> But in the interests of learning something here, how would you secure your
> airplane other than with a keyed ignition switch?
>
>
I too will be locking my canopy. In addition, there will be a specific
switch configuration for starting. For example, when shut down, all
switches will be off. While in operation, a certain minimum number of
switches will be on. For starting, there will be one of those 'minimum for
flight' switches that will be off. This is a DPDT, with the start
contactor circuit using one set of contacts. Anyone not familiar with this
configuration will not be able to crank my plane. Those who don't have as
complex an electrical system could easily do the same sort of thing by
requiring the dome light to be on, or an auto pilot armed, or the baggage
light to be on, or any other switch not normally associated with engine
starting. The bad guy will most likely assume a problem with the plane and
move on. Of course, a prop lock will tend to make him select an easier
target before breaking into your plane...
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>
Morning, Glen...
I too agree that a canopy lock is probably the best route. Maybe both
that and the prop chain.
Sure, a prop lock would prevent them from flying off with the plane, but
if all they are after is the neat avionics that we experimental builders
tend to install....
If they REALLY want the plane or avionics, then they smash the canopy,
and/or they call their friendly neighbor with a flat bed truck.
We can't prevent all attempts of thievery if someone really wants it,
but at least the canopy lock will keep the little kids from touching the
instruments and switches with their peanut butter coated fingers when
we're not around.
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
Glen Matejcek wrote:
>>But in the interests of learning something here, how would you secure your
>>airplane other than with a keyed ignition switch?
>>
> I too will be locking my canopy. In addition, there will be a specific
>switch configuration for starting. For example, when shut down, all
>switches will be off. While in operation, a certain minimum number of
>switches will be on. For starting, there will be one of those 'minimum for
>flight' switches that will be off. This is a DPDT, with the start
>contactor circuit using one set of contacts. Anyone not familiar with this
>configuration will not be able to crank my plane. Those who don't have as
>complex an electrical system could easily do the same sort of thing by
>requiring the dome light to be on, or an auto pilot armed, or the baggage
>light to be on, or any other switch not normally associated with engine
>starting. The bad guy will most likely assume a problem with the plane and
>move on. Of course, a prop lock will tend to make him select an easier
>target before breaking into your plane...
>
>Glen Matejcek
>aerobubba@earthlink.net
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD@DaveMorris.com>
I've got a throttle quadrant from an F-100 and I'm going to use one of the
switches on top of the handle for my starter switch. That way I don't have
to take my hands off the throttle or stick to do an in-flight restart. The
key switch on the ignition is just for the ignition, and the starter won't
run with the key off either, but you don't turn the key to crank the starter.
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/WiringTheCenterSwitchPanel.jpg
Dave Morris
At 12:02 AM 3/21/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 09:07 PM 3/20/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
> >
> >A throttle lock would do more good than a key switch.
> >
> >Pax,
>
> . . . or a padded chain over the prop. I've talked with
> numerous operators who prefer this method. It's right out
> in front so the midnight airplane shopper will see it
> right off. Further, it's right out in front where any
> attempts to removed it (time consuming) is more
> likely to be observed. It's inexpensive even when the
> hardest chain and locks are used and one size fits most.
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/AC_Theft_Protection.jpg
>
> A keyed mag switch is only a slight inconvenience. I once
> lost the key to a rental machine and brought the
> airplane home by breaking the p-lead terminals off the
> back of the mags with my fingers, hand-propped the
> airplane and came home. 20 minutes with a crimp tool
> and strippers repaired the 'work-around' and I cut some
> new keys from the office spare. Others have told me
> that they did similar work-arounds by breaking the
> terminals off at the mag switch. One or the
> other is easy to get at. If you're really
> crude . . . a pair of diagonal wire cutters works too.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Nancy Ghertner <nghertner@verizon.net>
I am looking for the labeling of the "pins" used on the PS engineering audio
panels. I have the wiring diagrams but I can't read the labels on the unit
itself.
Thanks for any help, Lory Ghertner
Message 6
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| Subject: | Vans type alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
I just bought an ND alternator, Lester #14684. This is the same
alternator supplied with Vans kits. The regulator used in the
alternator is the IN219. The terminal identification is D-IG-L.
I was looking into how to control the field on this alternator and I
have the following questions which I hope someone can answer.
The repair circuit is TRI219. Comments are: Ignition activated. Load
Dump protected, L-Terminal does NOT drive a choke. Overvoltage detect
point is 17.0 V.
Does this mean that the alternator has its own OV protection?
Does this mean that the B&C OV module wired into the IG will control the
field?
Any comments on how to wire this alternator would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Bill Bradburry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: <no subject> |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
The install guide for my PMA7000MS had some pages towards the back which gave the
relative positions of the pins on the connector.
If you can't find them - let me know....hopefully the unit you're installing has
a similar pin config to mine....
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Nancy Ghertner <nghertner@verizon.net>
>Sent: Mar 21, 2006 9:40 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: <no subject>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Nancy Ghertner <nghertner@verizon.net>
>
>I am looking for the labeling of the "pins" used on the PS engineering audio
>panels. I have the wiring diagrams but I can't read the labels on the unit
>itself.
>
>Thanks for any help, Lory Ghertner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Thermal wire stripper? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu>
Ron,
I have one that I use sometimes. It is a bit more trouble to use than
an automatic wire stripper. It would be nice if it was cordless. The
big advantage is that you're assured that you aren't nicking the wires
during the stripping operation.
Mark S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Thermal wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray"
<Bruce@glasair.org>
Check ebay for 'stripall'.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thermal wire stripper?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
I was talking to a friend today about stripping teflon wire. He said his
favorite that he used to use was a thermal wire stripper made by
American
Beauty.
I have a resistance soldering set up that he thinks is the same power
supply that he used to use.
Has / does anyone use one of these on Tefzel wire? Has anyone made a
pair
of tweezers?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 9
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
The pin positions are in the docs.
You don't need labels. It will give you a fwd and rear facing view of
the pin outs. In the back of the doc.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nancy
Ghertner
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: <no subject>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Nancy Ghertner
<nghertner@verizon.net>
I am looking for the labeling of the "pins" used on the PS engineering
audio
panels. I have the wiring diagrams but I can't read the labels on the
unit
itself.
Thanks for any help, Lory Ghertner
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
Back to the original post. As far as I know, most common production GA aircraft
use a keyed starter switch. I understand it can fail, just like any other switch.
I also understand redundancy is usually a good thing, however you need to
balance redundancy with complexity and risk potential. You also have to ensure
that your "fix" is not more failure prone than the original. I'm no expert,
but there are a lot of experts designing and building aircraft you start with
a key. Of the millions of flights made with a keyed switch, how many accidents
have been attributed to a failed switch? Are there any service letters, SB's,
or AD's addressing a problem with the switch? I'm not trying to be argumentative,
but I have a keyed ignition switch as called for in my aircrafts design,
and wonder if this is really something that I should be concerned about.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23144#23144
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
This may have been discussed before. I was thinking about
putting a simple toggle switch in an out of the way place maybe under the
instrument panel on the pilot side or even under the cowl close to the
firewall on the outside. If it we're outside no one would even notice that
you switched it on during preflight and what thief would ever suspect or
understand such a setup. I think my main concern would be an avionics thief
tearing up my instrument panel and stealing multiple thousands of dollars
worth.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Key Ignition Switch
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright"
> <armywrights@adelphia.net>
>
> Bill,
>
> Do a quick friendly ramp check on your local Bell 206 JetRanger. There is
> a
> key switch that enables/disables the starter circuit, but in itself has no
> bearing on the operation of the start switch. In fact the keyswitch is on
> the Pilot's side of the center console beside his calf, and the starter
> switch is on the collective. I'm thinking about using some kind of
> arrangement like this to disable the starter circuit on my airplane and
> keep
> it safer from theft...
>
> Rob
> RV-10
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Denton
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:05 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Key Ignition Switch
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton"
> <bdenton@bdenton.com>
>
> Obviously, the article describes a skew, as it was a defective switch "out
> of the box".
>
> But, you must also look at the size of the ring of keys involved in
> situations like this. If your airplane key is one of the 50 keys on that
> 2"
> key ring, you are putting mechanical loads on the switch that it was not
> designed for.
>
> But in the interests of learning something here, how would you secure your
> airplane other than with a keyed ignition switch?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> bakerocb@cox.net
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 1:24 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Key Ignition Switch
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
>
> 3/20/2006
>
> Hello Fellow Builders, Several of us have a real dislike for the key type
> ignition switches found in many type certificated airplanes and also
> installed by builders who may just assume "that's the best way".
>
> The following web page offers another data point on why that type of
> ignition switch is dislked by many of us.
>
> http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191792-1.html
>
> OC
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
Are there any service letters, SB's, or
> AD's addressing a problem with the switch?
http://tinyurl.com/j3m5j
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 13
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Cc: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Securing Your Airplane |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Bill
Denton" <bdenton@bdenton.com>
<<.....skip......But in the interests of learning something here, how would
you secure your
airplane other than with a keyed ignition switch?>>
Fair question Bill, but first each aircraft owner / builder needs to answer
some other questions:
A) Security under what aircraft conditions?
B) What kind of security?
I won't try to give complete answers to those two questions, but I will list
some items to think of:
Aircraft Conditions:
A1) Aircraft at home field inside a locked hangar with 24/7 FBO operations
nearby on the ramp.
A2) Aircraft at home field inside locked hangar.
A3) Aircraft at home field tied down outside on ramp with padlocks on tie
downs.
A4) Aircraft at home field tied down outside on ramp.
A5) Aircraft at away field tied down or chocked for a few hours in the day
time with frequent foot traffic on the ramp.
A6) Aircraft at away field tied down on ramp for one or more overnight stays
with airport basically deserted at night.
Kind of security:
B1) Only access to interior is to remove / rip / cut off cloth airplane
cover (which prevents seeing interior of aircraft) and then physically break
door locks or smash through a window.
B2) Only access to interior is to physically break door locks or smash
through a window.
B3) Access to interior is through unlocked door. (Rather have thief open
door and remove avionics or whatever than have thief damage aircraft and
then remove avionics or whatever.)
B4) After access to interior, hidden or trick engine cranking / ignition
switches would prevent any normal thief from starting engine and flying
airplane.
B5) After access to interior, padlocked control locks would prevent any
normal theif from flying the airplane even if he got the engine started.
B6) After access to interior, a padded chain or cable padlocked around the
propeller would prevent normal engine operation.
B7) After access to interior, only figuring out the ignition and start
switchology prevents flying the airplane.
B8) After removing standard (unlocked tiedowns), gaining access to interior,
and removing easily removed control stops, only getting past a standard
keyed ignition switch prevents flying the airplane.
There are probably situations in addition to those above. Each owner,
builder, pilot needs to go through a litany or hierarchy of scenarios, which
can change from from time to time, before he can best answer the question: "
How to secure my airplane?" I am not saying that a keyed ignition switch is
an absolutely unacceptable item to have in your amateur built experimental
aircraft, but it sure is very low on my list and not just for security
reasons.
OC
PS: A couple of comments:
I spent some time a few years back standing around a beautiful Lancair IV at
Sun 'n Fun. The builder would ask interested spectators to figure out how to
open his door which had a hidden handle / latch system. I did not see
anybody succeed.
I am intimately familiar with an airplane that has the door latches secured
by a socket head cap screw threaded in to a recessed hole in the door
handle. Not really hidden, but it is not obvious that the hole is providing
the locking mechanism and unless the thief is carrying the right sized Allen
wrench he cannot unlock and then open the doors in a normal fashion.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
> http://tinyurl.com/j3m5j
A simple toggle switch could fail in this same way, not grounding the mags. The
only way you would know is if you tested it to ensure the engine cuts off when
you throw the switch. Definitely related to safety, but not an issue in flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23187#23187
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
Bob,
I will try this again. The first time I tried to snip. Didn't work.
The OV/UV sensor came from B&C.
The light comes on steady when the mic is keyed. We aslo thought if might be
RF.
Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small stranded
wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage
dissconnect contactor was burned in two. I did have a OV trip a few months
back while taxi testing, but figured it was a nuisance trip. Without the
small wire the alternator has been functioning. The battery seems to have
full charge. Did not use a tester it was at home. Just looked at the
voltmeter. Turning the master on did not bring up the LV sensor light.
Any ideas?
Kevin Boddicker
Luana, Iowa
Tri Q200 N7868B 2.6 HRS
Flying!!!!
on 3/20/06 11:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at nuckollsr@cox.net wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:45 AM 3/20/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
>>
>> Bob,
>> I was making my third flight in my Tri Q 200 this past Sat. I noticed that
>> every time I presses the mic remote key switch, the OV light would come on.
>> Nothing is connected to ships power at this time. Using nine volt on
>> intercom, and a new IC-A6 with it's own battery. Ever heard of anything like
>> this before? I did not have the ships antenna hooked up either. Rubber ducky
>> only.
>
> Who's OV light?
>
>> I did not notice it on the first two flights, but may have not been aware of
>> it. Had other tasks on my mind.
>
> At first blush, it sounds like the OV sensor is sensitive
> to RF. Hand-helds with rubber duck antennas can be the
> worst antagonists with respect to cockpit mounted accessories.
> In fact, I used my hand-held as a quick-looksee for RF susceptibility
> for hardware on the bench.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Key Ignition Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: G McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Those proposed anti theft precautions are going to make for some very
interesting Emergency checklists.
Engine Failure - (1) Dome Light - "ON" (2) Mixture - "RICH" etc..etc.
George in Langley BC
canopy locked & do not archive
Glen wrote:
>>But in the interests of learning something here, how would you secure your
>>airplane other than with a keyed ignition switch?
>>
>>
>>
> I too will be locking my canopy. In addition, there will be a specific
>switch configuration for starting. >>>>>snip>>>>>> Those who don't have as
>complex an electrical system could easily do the same sort of thing by
>requiring the dome light to be on, or an auto pilot armed, or the baggage
>light to be on, or >>>>>>>>.
>
>
>
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