AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 03/22/06


Total Messages Posted: 23



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:37 AM - Re: UV Light (LarryRobertHelming)
     2. 04:37 AM - Key ignition switch (Fergus Kyle)
     3. 05:14 AM - Isolation amp inputs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 05:20 AM - Re: UV Light (Boddicker)
     5. 06:06 AM - Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 06:27 AM - Key Ignition Switch (Glen Matejcek)
     7. 07:11 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (Mickey Coggins)
     8. 07:11 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (Ernest Christley)
     9. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Jerry Grimmonpre)
    10. 07:23 AM - Re: Key ignition switch (Brian Lloyd)
    11. 07:48 AM - Re: Vans type alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 09:49 AM - Denso 100 211-1630 (Gilles Thesee)
    14. 12:08 PM - Re: Denso 100 211-1630 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Boddicker)
    16. 02:41 PM - Re: Z diagrams and fuseable links (John McMahon)
    17. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Boddicker)
    18. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    19. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    20. 06:34 PM - Re: Vans type alternator (Ken)
    21. 06:36 PM - Re: Denso 100 211-1630 (Ken)
    22. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light) (Boddicker)
    23. 07:14 PM - Re: Z diagrams and fuseable links (Ken)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:37:44 AM PST US
    From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
    Subject: Re: UV Light
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net> Check your wiring. When I turn on the master without the engine running/alternator producing energy, the LV light is blinking. I can also get the LV light to blink at low rpms with heavy load, i.e., all the lights on ( I have an 30 amp alt.) If your wiring checks out, I'd call B&C to see what they think about possibilities that you have a bad regulator. Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying "Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and at your own risk." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boddicker" <trumanst@netins.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: UV Light > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> > > Bob, > I will try this again. The first time I tried to snip. Didn't work. > The OV/UV sensor came from B&C. > The light comes on steady when the mic is keyed. We aslo thought if might > be > RF. > Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small > stranded > wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage > dissconnect contactor was burned in two. I did have a OV trip a few months > back while taxi testing, but figured it was a nuisance trip. Without the > small wire the alternator has been functioning. The battery seems to have > full charge. Did not use a tester it was at home. Just looked at the > voltmeter. Turning the master on did not bring up the LV sensor light. > Any ideas? > > Kevin Boddicker > Luana, Iowa > Tri Q200 N7868B 2.6 HRS > Flying!!!! > > > on 3/20/06 11:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at nuckollsr@cox.net wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >> <nuckollsr@cox.net> >> >> At 09:45 AM 3/20/2006 -0600, you wrote: >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> >>> >>> Bob, >>> I was making my third flight in my Tri Q 200 this past Sat. I noticed >>> that >>> every time I presses the mic remote key switch, the OV light would come >>> on. >>> Nothing is connected to ships power at this time. Using nine volt on >>> intercom, and a new IC-A6 with it's own battery. Ever heard of anything >>> like >>> this before? I did not have the ships antenna hooked up either. Rubber >>> ducky >>> only. >> >> Who's OV light? >> >>> I did not notice it on the first two flights, but may have not been >>> aware of >>> it. Had other tasks on my mind. >> >> At first blush, it sounds like the OV sensor is sensitive >> to RF. Hand-helds with rubber duck antennas can be the >> worst antagonists with respect to cockpit mounted accessories. >> In fact, I used my hand-held as a quick-looksee for RF susceptibility >> for hardware on the bench. >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > >> < the authority which determines whether there can be > >> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > >> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > >> < with experiment. > >> < --Lawrence M. Krauss > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:37:44 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Key ignition switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> I read with interest the sage remarks on safeguarding your aircraft. I have taken note of the qualities of magnetism in separating concious from ulterior motives in opening up my treasure. (I am considering a secret code ring which contains a tiny ultimate magnet - to be brushed past an unassuming position on the fuselage as I move forward to open the door - a lesson learnt from Chris Staines). If the thief wants my electronic gear he will have to prove break-and-enter practices to aid my insurance folk. Ferg A064


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:14:19 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Isolation amp inputs
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> Comments/Questions: I built your ISO Amp and it works great. I would like to add an additional warning tone input(GRT EFIS on the way). Can I add another input circuit in parallel with the existing warning tone input? It wouldn't be the cleanest solution, but perhaps effective. Is there a better way to add an input? Yes, just duplicate the same networks as used for the other inputs. There's no practical limit to the number of inputs you can have. Bob . . . < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss >


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:20:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: UV Light
    From: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> Thanks for the reply. The documentaion that came with my unit states " A flashing light indicates a bus voltage greater than 15.5 volts DC. Steady light indicates bus voltage below 12.5 volts DC." Mine too will ack as yours at low RPM. Must be just at the LV set or below. Increasing 50 RPM or so will make it disappear. Kevin Boddicker Luana, Iowa Tri Q200 N7868B Flying!!!! on 3/22/06 6:31 AM, LarryRobertHelming at lhelming@sigecom.net wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > <lhelming@sigecom.net> > > Check your wiring. When I turn on the master without the engine > running/alternator producing energy, the LV light is blinking. I can also > get the LV light to blink at low rpms with heavy load, i.e., all the lights > on ( I have an 30 amp alt.) > > If your wiring checks out, I'd call B&C to see what they think about > possibilities that you have a bad regulator. > > Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying > > "Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and > at your own risk." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Boddicker" <trumanst@netins.net> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:24 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: UV Light > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> >> >> Bob, >> I will try this again. The first time I tried to snip. Didn't work. >> The OV/UV sensor came from B&C. >> The light comes on steady when the mic is keyed. We aslo thought if might >> be >> RF. >> Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small >> stranded >> wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage >> dissconnect contactor was burned in two. I did have a OV trip a few months >> back while taxi testing, but figured it was a nuisance trip. Without the >> small wire the alternator has been functioning. The battery seems to have >> full charge. Did not use a tester it was at home. Just looked at the >> voltmeter. Turning the master on did not bring up the LV sensor light. >> Any ideas? >> >> Kevin Boddicker >> Luana, Iowa >> Tri Q200 N7868B 2.6 HRS >> Flying!!!! >> >> >> >> on 3/20/06 11:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at nuckollsr@cox.net wrote: >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >>> <nuckollsr@cox.net> >>> >>> At 09:45 AM 3/20/2006 -0600, you wrote: >>> >>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> >>>> >>>> Bob, >>>> I was making my third flight in my Tri Q 200 this past Sat. I noticed >>>> that >>>> every time I presses the mic remote key switch, the OV light would come >>>> on. >>>> Nothing is connected to ships power at this time. Using nine volt on >>>> intercom, and a new IC-A6 with it's own battery. Ever heard of anything >>>> like >>>> this before? I did not have the ships antenna hooked up either. Rubber >>>> ducky >>>> only. >>> >>> Who's OV light? >>> >>>> I did not notice it on the first two flights, but may have not been >>>> aware of >>>> it. Had other tasks on my mind. >>> >>> At first blush, it sounds like the OV sensor is sensitive >>> to RF. Hand-helds with rubber duck antennas can be the >>> worst antagonists with respect to cockpit mounted accessories. >>> In fact, I used my hand-held as a quick-looksee for RF susceptibility >>> for hardware on the bench. >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >>> >>> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > >>> < the authority which determines whether there can be > >>> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > >>> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > >>> < with experiment. > >>> < --Lawrence M. Krauss > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:06:27 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 06:24 PM 3/21/2006 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> > >Bob, >I will try this again. The first time I tried to snip. Didn't work. >The OV/LV sensor came from B&C. >The light comes on steady when the mic is keyed. We aslo thought if might be >RF. Could be. I don't remember details of the design. It may have some sensitivity to RF . . particularly from hand held radios. >Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small stranded >wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage >dissconnect contactor was burned in two. The S701-1 comes wired for use as a battery master contactor. For use as an alternator disconnect relay, that wire should be removed. Looks like the system removed it for you. Check the schematic. > I did have a OV trip a few months >back while taxi testing, but figured it was a nuisance trip. Without the >small wire the alternator has been functioning. Yup. > The battery seems to have >full charge. Did not use a tester it was at home. Just looked at the >voltmeter. Turning the master on did not bring up the LV sensor light. >Any ideas? Use a voltmeter to see if the bus voltage is sufficiently low to cause the light to come on. I think it's calibrated to come on at 12.5 and below. Your battery won't drop below that level until you load it. I.e., turn on some stuff with the alternator OFF and wait a minute or so. Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:27:49 AM PST US
    From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Key Ignition Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net> HI George- My comment about using the dome light was for illustrative purposes, but my sense of humor has gotten me into trouble before and I shouldn't put things that way in this forum. The odd switch in my starter interlock is conveniently located, altho it is left as an exercise for the reader to figure out which one it is ; - ) Also, given that a stopped prop implies either a seized engine or that I'm in the flare to land, I am entirely comfortable with my particular configuration. I offer it only as food for thought to those who are interested. A couple other points on the security side occur to me. As I've been told in the past by A&P's, there are only something like 13 different key cuts in all of GA. Having a canopy lock from Home Depot will (hopefully) increase our odds of keeping crooks out. Next, the canopy cover that someone suggested is an excellent idea as it keeps folks from 'casing' the panel and cockpit access provisions. The last idea is face mounted avionics. As I understand it, the process for sucessfull avionics pilferring involves pulling a tray mounted and allen wrench secured set from one plane and then swapping that set with a second plane. That way, the serial numbers for the 'resold' avionics don't turn up as stolen. By using face mounted units (BMA, Becker, Val, PSE, etc) one could theoretically increase the pilfer and swap logistics so much as to make your plane an unatractive target. As ever, FWIW, YMMV, yada, yada, yada... >Those proposed anti theft precautions are going to make for some very >interesting Emergency checklists. >Engine Failure - (1) Dome Light - "ON" (2) Mixture - "RICH" etc..etc. > >George in Langley BC Glen wrote: >>But in the interests of learning something here, how would you secure your >>airplane other than with a keyed ignition switch? >> >> >> > I too will be locking my canopy. In addition, there will be a specific >switch configuration for starting. >>>>>snip>>>>>> Those who don't have as >complex an electrical system could easily do the same sort of thing by >requiring the dome light to be on, or an auto pilot armed, or the baggage >light to be on, or >>>>>>>>. > Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:11:25 AM PST US
    From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
    Subject: Re: Key Ignition Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch> > The last idea is face mounted avionics. As I understand it, the process > for sucessfull avionics pilferring involves pulling a tray mounted and > allen wrench secured set from one plane and then swapping that set with a > second plane. That way, the serial numbers for the 'resold' avionics don't > turn up as stolen. ... Wow - that's amazing. If these crooks would apply that kind of brainpower to legitimate work, they'd probably make more money. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:11:25 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: RE: Key Ignition Switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com> AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net> > > > > >>But in the interests of learning something here, how would you secure your >>airplane other than with a keyed ignition switch? >> >> >> >> > I too will be locking my canopy. In addition, there will be a specific >switch configuration for starting. For example, when shut down, all >switches will be off. > I am also voting for the locking canopy. I got a lock from an IBM computer case. Mounts with just barely a bump on the canopy. The key is the only external handle to open the canopy with. I'm hoping the very smooth surface will both throw off the opportunist AND be more aerodynamic. -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org |


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:17:41 AM PST US
    From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net> Bob ... How does the alternator disconnect relay do it's job? None of the Z's show this relay between the alternators and the schematic wiring. Is this relay an add-on to the ANL approach or the field CB? What is the most reliable hardware to protect from OV? Slogging through electrical in Illinois ... Jerry Grimmonpre' >>Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small >>stranded >>wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage >>dissconnect contactor was burned in two. > > The S701-1 comes wired for use as a battery master contactor. > For use as an alternator disconnect relay, that wire should > be removed. Looks like the system removed it for you. Check > the schematic.


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:23:55 AM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Key ignition switch
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> Fergus Kyle wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> > > I read with interest the sage remarks on safeguarding your aircraft. I have > taken note of the qualities of magnetism in separating concious from > ulterior motives in opening up my treasure. (I am considering a secret code > ring which contains a tiny ultimate magnet - to be brushed past an > unassuming position on the fuselage as I move forward to open the door - a > lesson learnt from Chris Staines). > If the thief wants my electronic gear he will have to prove break-and-enter > practices to aid my insurance folk. If you want to go the high-tech route and use an electronic key you might want to look at the iButton technology. They are about the size of a pair of stacked nickels (US $0.05) and contain memory, processor, and communications. Your on-board system could query the presence of an iButton before enabling the aircraft's systems. http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/ Another possibility would be RFID technology. Then you just climb in the airplane with your RFID tag in your wallet and everything works. If the RFID tag isn't there, nothing works. Pretty cool magic in that. Yes, of course this is crazy overkill. Still, these are people's toys and they want all the really cool stuff. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:48:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Vans type alternator
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 10:08 AM 3/21/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry" ><bbradburry@allvantage.com> > >I just bought an ND alternator, Lester #14684. This is the same >alternator supplied with Vans kits. The regulator used in the >alternator is the IN219. The terminal identification is D-IG-L. >I was looking into how to control the field on this alternator and I >have the following questions which I hope someone can answer. >The repair circuit is TRI219. Comments are: Ignition activated. Load >Dump protected, L-Terminal does NOT drive a choke. . . . don't understand this . . . something to do with electrically heated choke on carburetor? > Overvoltage detect point is 17.0 V. > >Does this mean that the alternator has its own OV protection? Probably not. The upcoming publication of the MC33092 internal regulator chip study will show that there is no 'protection" offered by this particular chip. The lv, ov sensor circuits only drive the warning light. From an aviation perspective, 'protection' means active override of the effects of a hazardous event. To simply light a bulb is 'annunciation' or 'notification' and not 'protection'. Of course, to really know if any particular product truly offers what advertisements claim, one must dissect the schematics, block diagrams, etc. Which is what I've done with the MC33092. Now, the alternator you have may indeed offer what it advertises . . . but without seeing the detailed data (or testing it on the bench) you cannot know for sure. Further, I nor anyone else will be able to advise you from a position of knowledge. >Does this mean that the B&C OV module wired into the IG will control the >field? Probably not. >Any comments on how to wire this alternator would be greatly >appreciated. Wire it per Van's recommendations . . . for now. The next greatest thing is in the works. I've finished one of the test tools needed to quantify design parameters for achieving absolute, any-time, any-conditions, no-hazard control over an internally regulated alternator. Folks with an interest in having this capability will be able to take advantage of it. Folks not interested can wire per Van's suggestions. It will be easy to add to a Van's-style installation. Bob . . .


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:07:02 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 09:16 AM 3/22/2006 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net> > >Bob ... >How does the alternator disconnect relay do it's job? None of the Z's show >this relay between the alternators and the schematic wiring. Is this relay >an add-on to the ANL approach or the field CB? What is the most reliable >hardware to protect from OV? Slogging through electrical in Illinois ... >Jerry Grimmonpre' Z-24 was temporarily removed from the z-figures when some folks discovered that a pilot might induce a load dump failure of the alternator's regulator by manipulating the control switch at inappropriate times. Hence the idea for a system that allows any-time, any-conditions, no-hazard, absolute control over an IR alternator. Revision A has been crafted and work is plodding along to make it a reality. If my boss were as interested in working on RVs and Kitfoxes as he is in Hawkers and Kingairs, this project would be moving along faster. > >>Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small > >>stranded > >>wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage > >>dissconnect contactor was burned in two. > > > > The S701-1 comes wired for use as a battery master contactor. > > For use as an alternator disconnect relay, that wire should > > be removed. Looks like the system removed it for you. Check > > the schematic. You can see the old z-24 drawing at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/Z24_temp.pdf I presume this is what you have installed if you had a "nuisance trip" earlier. The fact that you burned the extra jumper raises concerns about whether or not your ov module has been damaged. Send it to me for a checkup. Bob . . . < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss >


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:49:49 AM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Denso 100 211-1630
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Hi Bob and all, A buddy asks me about wiring a Denso 100 211-1630 alternator for his wood and fabric homebuilt. I didn't closely follow the internal/ external regulator discussion, but I suppose it is an internally regulated unit ? Any advice I could pass on to him ? Thanks, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 14


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    Time: 12:08:54 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Denso 100 211-1630
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 06:43 PM 3/22/2006 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > >Hi Bob and all, > >A buddy asks me about wiring a Denso 100 211-1630 alternator for his >wood and fabric homebuilt. >I didn't closely follow the internal/ external regulator discussion, but >I suppose it is an internally regulated unit ? Probably. Externally regulated alternators are a special deal for automotive applications less than 30+ years old. >Any advice I could pass on to him ? It's probably a fine alternator and certainly longer average service life than 'aircraft' alternators certified onto most single engine aircraft. However, it's unlikely that it can be controlled in the same manner as pilots of certified aircraft have come to expect and will require some extra-ordinary system integration efforts which are in the works. Bob .. .


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:30:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    From: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> Thanks Bob. As always, you have cleared things up. Z24 shows what you are speaking of with reguard to the small wire. Again Many Thanks Kevin on 3/22/06 8:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at nuckollsr@cox.net wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 06:24 PM 3/21/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> >> >> Bob, >> I will try this again. The first time I tried to snip. Didn't work. >> The OV/LV sensor came from B&C. > >> The light comes on steady when the mic is keyed. We aslo thought if might be >> RF. > > Could be. I don't remember details of the design. > It may have some sensitivity to RF . . particularly > from hand held radios. > >> Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small stranded >> wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage >> dissconnect contactor was burned in two. > > The S701-1 comes wired for use as a battery master contactor. > For use as an alternator disconnect relay, that wire should > be removed. Looks like the system removed it for you. Check > the schematic. > > >> I did have a OV trip a few months >> back while taxi testing, but figured it was a nuisance trip. Without the >> small wire the alternator has been functioning. > > Yup. > >> The battery seems to have >> full charge. Did not use a tester it was at home. Just looked at the >> voltmeter. Turning the master on did not bring up the LV sensor light. >> Any ideas? > > Use a voltmeter to see if the bus voltage is sufficiently > low to cause the light to come on. I think it's calibrated > to come on at 12.5 and below. Your battery won't drop below > that level until you load it. I.e., turn on some stuff with > the alternator OFF and wait a minute or so. > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 02:41:56 PM PST US
    From: "John McMahon" <blackoaks@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Z diagrams and fuseable links
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John McMahon" <blackoaks@gmail.com> <snip> When you see protection at both ends of a wire, it suggests that their are sources of energy that put the wire at risk from either end. <snip> Bob, This brings up another question. I have a Lancair ES and the weight and balance requires the batteries to be aft of the baggage compartment. I have the battery contactor within 6 inches of the battery but then have about a 12 foot run up to the main bus. If I need to have the battery contactor in the rear to keep from having a long 'hot' wire why don't I need something at the front end to keep the alternator from making the long wire 'hot' from the other end? -- John McMahon Lancair Super ES


    Message 17


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    Time: 02:49:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    From: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> Bob, Yes I do have it wired as per Z24. I would be happy to send the ov Module. Is it OK to fly without it ? Kevin on 3/22/06 10:05 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at nuckollsr@cox.net wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 09:16 AM 3/22/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net> >> >> Bob ... >> How does the alternator disconnect relay do it's job? None of the Z's show >> this relay between the alternators and the schematic wiring. Is this relay >> an add-on to the ANL approach or the field CB? What is the most reliable >> hardware to protect from OV? Slogging through electrical in Illinois ... >> Jerry Grimmonpre' > > Z-24 was temporarily removed from the z-figures when > some folks discovered that a pilot might induce a > load dump failure of the alternator's regulator > by manipulating the control switch at inappropriate > times. Hence the idea for a system that allows > any-time, any-conditions, no-hazard, absolute > control over an IR alternator. > > Revision A has been crafted and work is plodding along > to make it a reality. If my boss were as interested in > working on RVs and Kitfoxes as he is in Hawkers and > Kingairs, this project would be moving along faster. > > > > >>>> Today, while doing a cowl off inspection, I noticed that the small >>>> stranded >>>> wire from the large post to the small post on the S701-1 over voltage >>>> dissconnect contactor was burned in two. >>> >>> The S701-1 comes wired for use as a battery master contactor. >>> For use as an alternator disconnect relay, that wire should >>> be removed. Looks like the system removed it for you. Check >>> the schematic. > > You can see the old z-24 drawing at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/Z24_temp.pdf > > I presume this is what you have installed if you had > a "nuisance trip" earlier. The fact that you burned the > extra jumper raises concerns about whether or not your > ov module has been damaged. > > Send it to me for a checkup. > > Bob . . . > > > < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > > < the authority which determines whether there can be > > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > > < with experiment. > > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:09:41 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 04:34 PM 3/22/2006 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> > >Thanks Bob. >As always, you have cleared things up. Z24 shows what you are speaking of >with reguard to the small wire. >Again Many Thanks >Kevin My pleasure. Bob . . .


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:09:41 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 04:56 PM 3/22/2006 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> > >Bob, >Yes I do have it wired as per Z24. >I would be happy to send the ov Module. Is it OK to fly without it ? >Kevin sure . . . risks are low but not zero. I'll turn it around quickly. Bob . . .


    Message 20


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    Time: 06:34:06 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: Vans type alternator
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Yup. Some carbed vehicles used to feed the electrically heated automatic choke from the L terminal of the alternator. This alternator won't supply sufficent current on the L lead for that purpose. Ken Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> > >At 10:08 AM 3/21/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry" >><bbradburry@allvantage.com> >> >>I just bought an ND alternator, Lester #14684. This is the same >>alternator supplied with Vans kits. The regulator used in the >>alternator is the IN219. The terminal identification is D-IG-L. >>I was looking into how to control the field on this alternator and I >>have the following questions which I hope someone can answer. >>The repair circuit is TRI219. Comments are: Ignition activated. Load >>Dump protected, L-Terminal does NOT drive a choke. >> >> > > . . . don't understand this . . . something to do > with electrically heated choke on carburetor? > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 06:36:00 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: Denso 100 211-1630
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> 40 amps nominal, internal regulator. Works fine without the L lead connected or a light can be installed L terminal to +12 volts. It will draw about 3.2 amps through the b-lead for the field any time there is +12 volts on the IG terminal whether or not the alternator is turning. Ken Gilles Thesee wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > >Hi Bob and all, > >A buddy asks me about wiring a Denso 100 211-1630 alternator for his >wood and fabric homebuilt. >I didn't closely follow the internal/ external regulator discussion, but >I suppose it is an internally regulated unit ? > >Any advice I could pass on to him ? > >Thanks, >Regards, >Gilles Thesee >Grenoble, France >http://contrails.free.fr > > > > > > > > >


    Message 22


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    Time: 06:41:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: OV/LV light (was: UV Light)
    From: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> Great. I will get it in the mail ASAP. Thanks, Kevin on 3/22/06 8:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at nuckollsr@cox.net wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 04:56 PM 3/22/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net> >> >> Bob, >> Yes I do have it wired as per Z24. >> I would be happy to send the ov Module. Is it OK to fly without it ? >> Kevin > > sure . . . risks are low but not zero. I'll turn it around quickly. > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 23


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    Time: 07:14:59 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: Z diagrams and fuseable links
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> I think because the long wire is thick enough to not overheat from max alternator output. A 40 amp alternator can't put much more than 40 amps into the wire and it is sized to handle that. A battery can put out many hundreds of amps and overheat that wire. Remember overcurrent protection is only to prevent overheating of the wire. A fuse won't shutdown something like a high resistance arcing short to ground that draws less current than the fuse rating. Hopefully you'd also be able to shut down the alternator if you were experiencing smoke or obvious electrical distress. Ken John McMahon wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John McMahon" <blackoaks@gmail.com> > ><snip> When you see protection > at both ends of a wire, it suggests that their are sources > of energy that put the wire at risk from either end. ><snip> > >Bob, >This brings up another question. I have a Lancair ES and the weight and >balance requires the batteries to be aft of the baggage compartment. I have >the battery contactor within 6 inches of the battery but then have about a >12 foot run up to the main bus. If I need to have the battery contactor in >the rear to keep from having a long 'hot' wire why don't I need something >at the front end to keep the alternator from making the long wire 'hot' from >the other end? > >-- >John McMahon >Lancair Super ES > >




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