Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:08 AM - School Stuff (James H Nelson)
2. 07:45 AM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (Ken)
3. 09:22 AM - Old Stuff (Fergus Kyle)
4. 09:46 AM - Old Stuff (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 10:15 AM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (Jim Baker)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: RV-8/8A CG location (Jerry Grimmonpre)
7. 11:08 AM - Audio Panel/2 Comms (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
8. 11:44 AM - Re: Audio Panel/2 Comms (Brian Lloyd)
9. 12:41 PM - Re: Audio Panel/2 Comms (SteinAir, Inc.)
10. 04:07 PM - Re:Garmin 296 power/battery (Dale Ensing)
11. 05:03 PM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 05:40 PM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (Alan K. Adamson)
13. 05:51 PM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (Brian Lloyd)
14. 06:56 PM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (Charlie England)
15. 08:53 PM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (guy fulton)
16. 09:21 PM - Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Wow!
Was that done in this century? In a state that is quite
politically Liberal, I would think that was not likely. Don't let it out
what you do, they will freak out and stop all that nonsense (??).
Jim
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Well I'm happy to report that I put a diode in the feed to the zener on
both homebuilt OVP modules and I have not seen a nuisance OV trip since.
I have started the engine numerous times while chasing some oil leaks
and other issues so I think the problem is licked and I recommend the
mod. Thanks again Bob!
I have been searching for a used TDS-210 digital scope as recommended
below but they seem to be commanding a bit higher price than I'd like
and I notice they only have a 1K memory despite otherwise impressive
specs. At the moment I'm trying to catch sporadic extra spark events
that I suspect may be occuring in my electronic ignition. Has anybody
used one of the low cost PC laptop scopes for chasing such gremlins?
Some of the PC scopes have larger memory and are less costly than a used
tektronix. I presume that a larger memory is more useful than a fast
sample rate for ignition work. An intriguing example of one of the
pricer units is at http://www.linkinstruments.com/oscilloscope21.htm#pricing
thank you for any thoughts or recommendations
Ken
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 09:14 AM 4/4/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>>
>> Thank you for your thoughts Bob.
>>
>>I considered adding a diode in series with the 392 R resistor to pull up
>>the reference voltage quicker but discarded the idea. I was thinking
>>that while the voltage was rising immediately after cranking, such a
>>diode would give the trigger voltage a 0.6 volt headstart so to speak.
>>As you point out though that doesn't matter if the reference voltage
>>doesn't sag in the first place. Have to check again but I think I'm just
>>barely seeing over 12 volts at the time that I start cranking so not
>>much headroom to bring the ref. voltage up to 12 volts before cranking.
>>Maybe there's a schottky type diode in my junk pile... er..parts bin.
>>This is an EFI engine so it does not normally need much cranking. I will
>>try this diode on one of the OVM's this morning but it will take awhile
>>before I know whether it does the trick.
>>
>>
>
> I don't think there's an issue with how fast the ref
> voltage comes up, we just want to keep it from being pulled down
> during the locked-rotor inrush current that every starter imposes
> on a battery for the first few milliseconds while the motor
> is spinning up. See:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/99_Saturn_SL1.jpg
>
> Here we see bus voltage dipping to 7.5 volts and it takes
> about 600 mS before the voltage rises above 12v. All during
> this time, vref in the ov module is going to be something
> lower than 12v. 392 ohms and 22uf has a time constant of
> 8.6 milliseconds; the brownout interval is significantly longer.
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/99_Saturn_SL1_2.gif
>
> This is a tighter view that shows the slope of the voltage
> during starter spin-up.
>
> There's no 'load' on Vref, it's a sinking reference that's
> keeping the ref point from rising at trip time. The only reason
> for the 392 resistor is to bias the zener into a low impedance
> region of relatively stable voltage. You could replace the 392
> ohm resistor with something much higher and also make the 'problem'
> go away . . . but Vref will fall slightly with the lower bias
> current and have a slight effect on setpoint stability.
>
> I think the diode in series is the best bet. A 1N4000 series
> would be fine . . . or a 1N4148/914 would work good too. What
> ever you can put your hands on easiest.
>
>>My analog scope is not the greatest tool for capturing one shot
>>transients. I've been searching for a low cost portable or laptop DSO
>>for the last couple of days as I'd also like some proof that my ignition
>>is not occasionally missing a beat. There are a couple of offerings that
>>seem like they might be useful in the $200 to $400. range. The
>>megasquirt backup fuel injection that I'm using has datalog capability
>>to a laptop and that is opening my eyes a bit to how useful digital
>>recording can be.
>>
>>
>
> You got that right. I beat that drum every chance I get at RAC.
> We've been able to walk up to a $30,000 car for 20 years, plug
> in and have it spill it's guts. We STILL can't do that on a
> $5-$20 million bizjet's systems.
>
> Keep an eye on ebay for a TDS-210 scope. GREAT value. Even at
> new prices, the TDS-210 cost 1/2 of the first good scope I
> ever owned and it does 10 times as much. If the tornado
> sirens go off while I'm at the bench, the TDS-210 goes with
> me to the 'fraid-hole with me.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
gentlemen/ladies,
Thank you for bringing back fatigue/aching backs/soaking
earpieces and bad memories with this spate of Adcock range era items.
Who said he enjoyed flying the Adcock range? That enjoyment ends almost
instantly the minute you're paid for it and it's endless.
Can I say "consolan"?
Ferg
PS: Old Bob - what was that mnemonic for? (We had very few airway beacons).
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/2006 11:23:55 A.M. Central Standard Time,
VE3LVO@rac.ca writes:
Ferg
PS: Old Bob - what was that mnemonic for? (We had very few airway beacons).
Good Morning Ferg,
You had to fly one of the loop ranges in an ice storm to really appreciate
the Adcock version!
The mnemonic was for the course identifier lights that were on each airway
beacon.
They flashed a signal in Morse code that repeated every ten seconds or so.
That Is how you could positively identify which beacon you were looking at.
There were ten different sequences and I don't remember the full mnemonic,
but what I quoted was part of it.
I kinda remember something about virgins in there too! I believe it
referred to the letter V.
I was hoping someone who remembered the whole ten identifiers would correct
me.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Do Not Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
> I have been searching for a used TDS-210 digital scope as
recommended
> below but they seem to be commanding a bit higher price than I'd
like
> and I notice they only have a 1K memory despite otherwise
impressive
> specs.
Ken....don't know if you've ever looked at the Govt surplus sales
site.....
http://www.govliquidation.com/list/e1825
Some of these o-scopes go for a pitance (well, $50 minimum,
anyway) but you have to be careful about the condition code. If you
live near one of the bases you can inspect/test the item before a
bid....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8/8A CG location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Hi Dale ...
Thanks for your contribution, I'll use this in the future for sure. It's
interesting how many 8A cg's fall within less than 1 inch of each other
considering all the engine/prop configurations. It's also amazing how
manipulating the location of aft battery will allow one to achieve cg
perfection. This thought makes me happy indeed.
Adjusting endurance bus loads to under 15A ... very easy to do.
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV-8A
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
> <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Sorry people.
> Jerry Grimmonpre pointed out that I forgot to include the
> weight&balance/CG
> web site address for comparing the CG location of 8/8A aircraft.
>
> here it is: http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
> Dale Ensing
Message 7
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| Subject: | Audio Panel/2 Comms |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
List,
Does anyone have a schematic kicking around for hooking up an Audio Panel
and 2 Comms? I've pretty much made my own, but would just like to compare...
Mine is PS Engineering PMA6000/ ICOM A200's
Jerry Cochran
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Audio Panel/2 Comms |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>
> List,
>
>
> Does anyone have a schematic kicking around for hooking up an Audio Panel
> and 2 Comms? I've pretty much made my own, but would just like to compare...
> Mine is PS Engineering PMA6000/ ICOM A200's
The PMA6000 comes with the necessary schematic. Are you looking for the
exact pin-to-pin wiring list for the A200s connected to the PMA6000?
There should be only about 5 wires to each A200:
1. mic audio
2. headphone audio
3. PTT
4. mic ground
5. headphone audio and PTT ground
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 9
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| Subject: | Audio Panel/2 Comms |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Jerry,
The standard PMA-6000 wiring diagram is pretty good and shows the hooks for
both comms. It can be downloaded at their website.
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Jerry2DT@aol.com
>Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:06 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Audio Panel/2 Comms
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>
>List,
>
>
>Does anyone have a schematic kicking around for hooking up an Audio Panel
>and 2 Comms? I've pretty much made my own, but would just like to
>compare...
>Mine is PS Engineering PMA6000/ ICOM A200's
>
>Jerry Cochran
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re:Garmin 296 power/battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
I am up grading my RV-6A from a Garmin 295 to a 296 and have a question for
you battery knowledgeable types.
I plan to hard wire the power/data cord into the airplane just as I did the
295. The 295 uses AA alkaline batteries. They are only used when the unit is
turned on without the master being on. -like loading a flight route. - and
are backup if needed.
The 296 uses a Lithium-ion re-chargeable battery which will be recharged
each time the master is on and will be used very a little as described
above. Will this constant charging and little use destroy a lithium-ion
battery? Do I need to remove the unit and cycle the batteries occasionally?
Any suggestions?
Dale Ensing
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:41 AM 4/14/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>Well I'm happy to report that I put a diode in the feed to the zener on
>both homebuilt OVP modules and I have not seen a nuisance OV trip since.
>I have started the engine numerous times while chasing some oil leaks
>and other issues so I think the problem is licked and I recommend the
>mod. Thanks again Bob!
Thank you for taking time to observe a condition, hypothesize possible
root causes and conduct experiments to confirm/deny the hypothesis.
It's a rare instance that the designer-manufacturer-user loop can be
tightly closed for the purpose of chasing the bugs out of a design
or product. It's all too common that the disappointed user throws
up their hands and goes off to try something else while the supplier
is held in isolated ignorance for data that would help them evolve
the product.
>I have been searching for a used TDS-210 digital scope as recommended
>below but they seem to be commanding a bit higher price than I'd like
>and I notice they only have a 1K memory despite otherwise impressive
>specs. At the moment I'm trying to catch sporadic extra spark events
>that I suspect may be occuring in my electronic ignition. Has anybody
>used one of the low cost PC laptop scopes for chasing such gremlins?
>Some of the PC scopes have larger memory and are less costly than a used
>tektronix. I presume that a larger memory is more useful than a fast
>sample rate for ignition work. An intriguing example of one of the
>pricer units is at http://www.linkinstruments.com/oscilloscope21.htm#pricing
>
>thank you for any thoughts or recommendations
The 1K of memory isn't a big restriction for capturing one screen
worth of data . . . but the task you've cited sounds like a
job for high speed data acquisition. One of my favorite tools of
yesteryear was a product by Base2 Electronics that ran off
the extended performance parallel port of a Win95 machine.
It would take 8, 12-bit samples 1000 times a second and throw
the numbers to a column delimited text file on the hard drive.
If I tied all 8 channels together, I could get 8000 samples
per second. I successfully chased a lot of gremlins out of
Beechjets with this tool. Unfortunately, the company didn't
upgrade to stay compatible with newer hardware and operating
systems and I've not found a single product that even approaches
the capability and low cost of that device ($125 with software).
I've discussed this project with my software guy (father-in-law)
and we're going to see if we can do a WinXP/USB version of this
product. In the mean time, I don't have any good recommendations
for you. If I run across something, I'll post it. Hmmm, got
an old laptop you could load Win95 on and has an EPP parallel
port? I think my Base2 Modules are laying around here somewhere.
I'm going to add a diode to the schematic for the OVPM
this weekend. Thanks for doing the legwork on this!
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
Looking for a Cheap 10 or 12 bit ADC, the "starter kits" from here are
pretty good. 4 channel I think and as you described, work on a serial
port... Also think they have a USB version
http://www.dataq.com/
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OVM nuisance trips during engine start
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:41 AM 4/14/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
>
>Well I'm happy to report that I put a diode in the feed to the zener on
>both homebuilt OVP modules and I have not seen a nuisance OV trip since.
>I have started the engine numerous times while chasing some oil leaks
>and other issues so I think the problem is licked and I recommend the
>mod. Thanks again Bob!
Thank you for taking time to observe a condition, hypothesize possible
root causes and conduct experiments to confirm/deny the hypothesis.
It's a rare instance that the designer-manufacturer-user loop can be
tightly closed for the purpose of chasing the bugs out of a design
or product. It's all too common that the disappointed user throws
up their hands and goes off to try something else while the supplier
is held in isolated ignorance for data that would help them evolve
the product.
>I have been searching for a used TDS-210 digital scope as recommended
>below but they seem to be commanding a bit higher price than I'd like
>and I notice they only have a 1K memory despite otherwise impressive
>specs. At the moment I'm trying to catch sporadic extra spark events
>that I suspect may be occuring in my electronic ignition. Has anybody
>used one of the low cost PC laptop scopes for chasing such gremlins?
>Some of the PC scopes have larger memory and are less costly than a
>used tektronix. I presume that a larger memory is more useful than a
>fast sample rate for ignition work. An intriguing example of one of the
>pricer units is at
>http://www.linkinstruments.com/oscilloscope21.htm#pricing
>
>thank you for any thoughts or recommendations
The 1K of memory isn't a big restriction for capturing one screen
worth of data . . . but the task you've cited sounds like a
job for high speed data acquisition. One of my favorite tools of
yesteryear was a product by Base2 Electronics that ran off
the extended performance parallel port of a Win95 machine.
It would take 8, 12-bit samples 1000 times a second and throw
the numbers to a column delimited text file on the hard drive.
If I tied all 8 channels together, I could get 8000 samples
per second. I successfully chased a lot of gremlins out of
Beechjets with this tool. Unfortunately, the company didn't
upgrade to stay compatible with newer hardware and operating
systems and I've not found a single product that even approaches
the capability and low cost of that device ($125 with software).
I've discussed this project with my software guy (father-in-law)
and we're going to see if we can do a WinXP/USB version of this
product. In the mean time, I don't have any good recommendations
for you. If I run across something, I'll post it. Hmmm, got
an old laptop you could load Win95 on and has an EPP parallel
port? I think my Base2 Modules are laying around here somewhere.
I'm going to add a diode to the schematic for the OVPM
this weekend. Thanks for doing the legwork on this!
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I've discussed this project with my software guy (father-in-law)
> and we're going to see if we can do a WinXP/USB version of this
> product. In the mean time, I don't have any good recommendations
> for you. If I run across something, I'll post it. Hmmm, got
> an old laptop you could load Win95 on and has an EPP parallel
> port? I think my Base2 Modules are laying around here somewhere.
How about doing it in such a way that it is universal. It is a small
thing but as soon as you say WinXP/USB I know that it will not run on
any of my computers (Mac, Sun, Linux/Intel).
You know, if you give it some intelligence and then put it on the
network you end up with some seriously cool remote data collection. Now
with it being on the other side of an IP connection you can write a Java
front-end that will run on anything.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>> I've discussed this project with my software guy (father-in-law)
>> and we're going to see if we can do a WinXP/USB version of this
>> product. In the mean time, I don't have any good recommendations
>> for you. If I run across something, I'll post it. Hmmm, got
>> an old laptop you could load Win95 on and has an EPP parallel
>> port? I think my Base2 Modules are laying around here somewhere.
>>
>>
>
>How about doing it in such a way that it is universal. It is a small
>thing but as soon as you say WinXP/USB I know that it will not run on
>any of my computers (Mac, Sun, Linux/Intel).
>
>You know, if you give it some intelligence and then put it on the
>network you end up with some seriously cool remote data collection. Now
>with it being on the other side of an IP connection you can write a Java
>front-end that will run on anything.
>
>
>
Well, Brian, it sounds like you just talked yourself into a job....
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: guy fulton <truecolor32bit@yahoo.com>
Chances are if the program runs in W95 you will be
successful running it in linux, using wine.
--- Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie
> England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian
> Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> >
> >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I've discussed this project with my software
> guy (father-in-law)
> >> and we're going to see if we can do a WinXP/USB
> version of this
> >> product. In the mean time, I don't have any
> good recommendations
> >> for you. If I run across something, I'll post
> it. Hmmm, got
> >> an old laptop you could load Win95 on and has
> an EPP parallel
> >> port? I think my Base2 Modules are laying
> around here somewhere.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >How about doing it in such a way that it is
> universal. It is a small
> >thing but as soon as you say WinXP/USB I know that
> it will not run on
> >any of my computers (Mac, Sun, Linux/Intel).
> >
> >You know, if you give it some intelligence and then
> put it on the
> >network you end up with some seriously cool remote
> data collection. Now
> >with it being on the other side of an IP connection
> you can write a Java
> >front-end that will run on anything.
> >
> >
> >
> Well, Brian, it sounds like you just talked
> yourself into a job....
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: OVM nuisance trips during engine start |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
guy fulton wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: guy fulton <truecolor32bit@yahoo.com>
>
> Chances are if the program runs in W95 you will be
> successful running it in linux, using wine.
Not if you are dealing with drivers and hardware it won't.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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