AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 04/16/06


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: DAS Systems (Kevin Horton)
     2. 06:32 AM - Wanna roll your own Engine monitoring system? (Alan K. Adamson)
     3. 08:22 AM - Re: antenna construction (Dj Merrill)
     4. 08:46 AM - LED power....... (Sid Hausding)
     5. 09:32 AM - Re: LED power....... (Ken)
     6. 09:35 AM - Re: LED power....... (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
     7. 10:26 AM - LED power....... (Sid Hausding)
     8. 10:27 AM - Re: LED power....... (Richard E. Tasker)
     9. 10:44 AM - LED power....... (Sid Hausding)
    10. 10:44 AM - Re: LED power....... (Richard Dudley)
    11. 11:00 AM - LED power....... (Sid Hausding)
    12. 12:17 PM - Connections on S704-1 Relay (SMITHBKN@aol.com)
    13. 12:29 PM - Re: antenna construction (John Schroeder)
    14. 12:42 PM - Re: LED power....... (John Schroeder)
    15. 01:29 PM - oh no! OV again (gary)
    16. 05:46 PM - LED ....... (Sid Hausding)
    17. 09:32 PM - Alternator B Lead protection (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:04:30 AM PST US
    From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: DAS Systems
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> On 15 Apr 2006, at 21:52, Brian Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian- > yak@lloyd.com> > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> Win/USB is the major market . . . and FTDI's drivers for making >> USB masquerade as a serial COM port are getting better all the >> time. I have one product right now that's been a real hassle >> when customers want to put it on a Win95 or even Windows for >> Workgroups! It's a shoo-in on XP and 2000. > > Well, you are talking to someone who has spent most of his life making > devices and services universally available over the network. There > is a > reason people have embraced the Internet; it is the universal vehicle > for communication between devices. > >> The biggest filter of operating systems will be a GUI we'll >> provide which will be crafted for the latest Win OS and how ever >> far back as we can make it go without undue labor. However, >> the communications architecture will be open and anyone who >> want's to craft their own interface. It's usually no big deal >> to take a series of streaming data and push it to a hard drive >> for later import to spread-sheet-and-graphics of choice. The >> DAS will put out ASCII integers in comma de-limited strings. > > For the GUI, use Java. The reason is, you really will be able to > run it > on windows, Mac, or any of the flavors of Unix/Linux out there. It has > all the hooks to allow you to communicate over a network connection > regardless of whether it is serial RS-232 (PPP), ethernet, USB, > Firewire, Bluetooth, or WiFi (IEEE 802.11[a|b|g]). I'm interested in a reasonably priced system to record analog data that I can hook up to a laptop running Mac OS X. I don't own any computers that run Windows, and won't purchase one just for this task. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:32:15 AM PST US
    From: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
    Subject: Wanna roll your own Engine monitoring system?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com> I knew I'd seen this before, but just stumbled on the link to it again. It's what most of the guys run at Reno for telemetry :)....Pretty cool stuff http://www.rcatsystems.com/ Alan


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:22:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: antenna construction
    From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> Kevin Horton wrote: > http://www.rst-engr.com/ Hi Kevin, Thanks for the link! That wasn't the site I was thinking of but that looks like a good one. They have a booklet they sell for $5 that apparently has several airplane antenna plans in it, and probably worth getting to have on hand. The site I was thinking of had plans and list of materials on it so you could build the antennas yourself from raw parts. I've tried Google with no luck, and I can't seem to find the bookmark for the site. Ah well... Thanks, -Dj do not archive -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/ "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:46:51 AM PST US
    From: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
    Subject: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas for powering up the little buggers..... anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning out......? Sid ----------------------- Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding Wondering if all LED's come with a built in current limiting device or if most will need to have a resistor wired in line to keep the small power requirements they use from burning out.........any info posted somewhere on wiring in a 15mamp, 12dcv device to show power to the system out there? Sid -------------------- "Alan K. Adamson" wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" Opps, helps if you post the link... http://www.ledtronics.com/ Don't know if this has been posted before or not, but this place has just about every LED imaginable and then some. "Why can't we all just get along?" --------------------------------- "Why can't we all just get along?" ---------------------------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:32:13 AM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Hi Sid The vast majority of LED's require a current limiting resistor. A few may have one included for example a panel indicator that specifically says 12 volts. The operating voltage of an LED is around 1.7 volts or so depending on the color. I usually limit the current to 8 to 15 ma. for general use. 1000 ohms might be in the ballpark for an indicator but play around with it. Radio shack used to have cheap paper back books (written by Forrest Mims ?) that are great for learning things like this. There are also a number of web sites on using LED's. Ken Sid Hausding wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> > >Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas for powering up the little buggers..... > anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning out......? > Sid > ----------------------- > >Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > >Wondering if all LED's come with a built in current limiting device or if most will need to have a resistor wired in line to keep the small power requirements they use from burning out.........any info posted somewhere on wiring in a 15mamp, 12dcv device to show power to the system out there? >Sid >-------------------- > >"Alan K. Adamson" wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > >Opps, helps if you post the link... > >http://www.ledtronics.com/ > > >Don't know if this has been posted before or not, but this place has just >about every LED imaginable and then some. > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > > > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:35:59 AM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com Hi Sid- To properly power an LED or even several in series, you simple provide an appropriate amount of resistance in series with the correctly-biased LED(s) that results in an actual current flow of about 20 mA. You can also reduce their brightness by using more resistance, or less resistance, which results in overdriving the LEDs somewhat. This will likely shorten their lifespan, but what is 50% of maybe 100K hrs in the life of an airplane? When I first got interested in playing with these things for my RV, I ordered a bunch of different types and colors from Marlin P Jones, got a resistor assortment from JapShack, and did a bunch of playing with them. The parts are extremely cheap. See: http://mpja.com/listitems.asp?dept=116&main=122 Radio Shack carries this resistor assortment- you can make virtually any resistance by combining resistors: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062304&cp=&origkw=resis tor&kw=resistor&kwCatId=2032058&parentPage=search If that ugly URL doesn't work, go to Radioshack.com and search for 271-308. If you can do Excel, I've got a SS that lists required resistances for various types and series strings of LEDs. Will send copy direct & if anyone else interested will send also... Mark Phillips


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:26:11 AM PST US
    From: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
    Subject: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> Free cheap beer all day for Mark...........yay, and thank you profusely for getting me started. Just too lazy to review all the old manuals and relearn what I had forgotten years ago. You have provided me with the fast step to getting me back up to speed..........Happy Easter to you and yours and this list. Sid Avid Speedwing ---------------------------------------- Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com Hi Sid- To properly power an LED or even several in series, you simple provide an appropriate amount of resistance in series with the correctly-biased LED(s) that results in an actual current flow of about 20 mA. You can also reduce their brightness by using more resistance, or less resistance, which results in overdriving the LEDs somewhat. This will likely shorten their lifespan, but what is 50% of maybe 100K hrs in the life of an airplane? When I first got interested in playing with these things for my RV, I ordered a bunch of different types and colors from Marlin P Jones, got a resistor assortment from JapShack, and did a bunch of playing with them. The parts are extremely cheap. See: http://mpja.com/listitems.asp?dept=116&main=122 Radio Shack carries this resistor assortment- you can make virtually any resistance by combining resistors: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062304&cp=&origkw=resis tor&kw=resistor&kwCatId=2032058&parentPage=search If that ugly URL doesn't work, go to Radioshack.com and search for 271-308. If you can do Excel, I've got a SS that lists required resistances for various types and series strings of LEDs. Will send copy direct & if anyone else interested will send also... Mark Phillips "Why can't we all just get along?" ---------------------------------


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:27:28 AM PST US
    From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
    Subject: Re: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net> Essentially all LEDs require some sort of current limiter. That is, LEDs are current driven devices (rather than voltage driven like a normal incandescent lights) and putting a voltage higher than required to light them will cause almost instant self destruction. But it looks like you already knew that... That said, the LED assemblies offered on the referenced site may very well have internal limiters, especially where they come attached to a threaded plug that is designed to thread into an incandescent lamp socket. Most single (unassembled) LEDs do NOT have an internal limiter and are designed to work with something between 10-30 mA through them. This can be accomplished in a number of ways, but the simplest is just to wire a resistor in series with the LED. When you purchase an LED it should come with specifications that tell you what the operating voltage is (the voltage that it lights at) and the rated maximum current. Let's take a sample red LED with an operating voltage of 1.7V and a maximum current of 30 mA. Let's further assume that you want to operate this at something less than the maximum current to allow for high temperatures in the cockpit and choose 20 mA (a little less than maximum brightness, but probably still very bright). If we are operating this from the alternator/battery voltage we can assume about 14V available (actually 12-14.5V - see below). If we just hooked this to the LED it would be very bright (for a millisecond or two), then very dark :-) . We need to limit the current to the aforementioned 20 mA. So... We take the available voltage (14V) and subtract what the LED needs (1.7V) to get the voltage we need to "discard" (12.3V). We then calculate the resistor we need to allow 20 mA with this voltage (12.3V). Using Ohm's law (V=I*R) and rearranging (R=V/I) we plug the numbers into the equation to get 12.3V/0.02A=615 ohms. That is not one of the standard available values of resistor so we choose a value that is close (620 ohms for 5% resistors or 619 ohms for 1% resistors). Now we have a value but we still have to calculate the power "discarded" in the resistor so we can get one that will not burn up as soon as we turn things on. Power in watts is (W=V*I). Plugging the numbers in we get 12.3V * 0.02A = 0.246 W or 246 mW. Resistors come is various power ratings and we have to choose one that is at least what we just calculated. That means we should use 1/4W at absolute minimum. However, if we choose the 1/4W resistor it will run very hot to dissipate 0.246W of power - potentially shortening it's life and reliability. So we really want to choose at least a 1/2W resistor. That will give it some "elbow room" especially important if it will be operating in a warm environment. Use the same idea for any LED you may buy (different colors have different operating voltages). Additionally, you can connect two LEDs in series for whatever reason (lighting, etc.) and just do the same calculations but use 3.4V (in this case 1.7V times the two LEDs) instead of 1.7V. You can do this with several LEDs but you must allow some series voltage to drop across the resistor (remembering that the voltage on the aircraft bus varies from about 14.5V max. to about 12V min.). As the voltage varies the LEDs will vary in brightness. If you have one LED the "leftover" voltage will vary between 12.8V to 10.3V - a change of approximately 20-25%. If you series several LEDs (say four for a drop of 6.8V), the voltage will vary between 7.7V to 5.2V - a change of 30-50%. So do not add too many in series that you have too low a voltage across the resistor. Do not connect LEDs in parallel!!! If you do, the one that has a slightly lower operating voltage will "hog" all the current - causing it to use too much current (overheat) and be much brighter than the other(s). If you want to wire them in parallel for some reason, use a series resistor for each LED. If you have more questions, please ask. :-) Dick Tasker Sid Hausding wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> > >Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas for powering up the little buggers..... > anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning out......? > Sid > ----------------------- > >Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > >Wondering if all LED's come with a built in current limiting device or if most will need to have a resistor wired in line to keep the small power requirements they use from burning out.........any info posted somewhere on wiring in a 15mamp, 12dcv device to show power to the system out there? >Sid >-------------------- > >"Alan K. Adamson" wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > >Opps, helps if you post the link... > >http://www.ledtronics.com/ > > >Don't know if this has been posted before or not, but this place has just >about every LED imaginable and then some. > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. --


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:44:15 AM PST US
    From: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
    Subject: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> Okay Ken, I'm relearning some of this from a very long time ago. Its was always interesting and still is to me, just wanted a short cut to get these dang things in for indicator lights..........will search around and bring myself up to speed on some of this "old memory stuff". Happy Holiday, Sid -------------------------------- Ken <klehman@ wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Hi Sid The vast majority of LED's require a current limiting resistor. A few may have one included for example a panel indicator that specifically says 12 volts. The operating voltage of an LED is around 1.7 volts or so depending on the color. I usually limit the current to 8 to 15 ma. for general use. 1000 ohms might be in the ballpark for an indicator but play around with it. Radio shack used to have cheap paper back books (written by Forrest Mims ?) that are great for learning things like this. There are also a number of web sites on using LED's. Ken Sid Hausding wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > >Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas for powering up the little buggers..... > anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning out......? > Sid > ----------------------- > >Sid Hausding wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > >Wondering if all LED's come with a built in current limiting device or if most will need to have a resistor wired in line to keep the small power requirements they use from burning out.........any info posted somewhere on wiring in a 15mamp, 12dcv device to show power to the system out there? >Sid >-------------------- > >"Alan K. Adamson" wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > >Opps, helps if you post the link... > >http://www.ledtronics.com/ > > >Don't know if this has been posted before or not, but this place has just >about every LED imaginable and then some. > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > "Why can't we all just get along?" ---------------------------------


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:44:15 AM PST US
    From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
    Subject: Re: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net> Hi Sid, Bob Nucolls has piece on LEDs. I think that it answers many of your questions. Try this link: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/leds3.pdf Regards, Richard Dudley -6A flying Sid Hausding wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> > >Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas for powering up the little buggers..... > anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning out......? > Sid > ----------------------- > >Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > >Wondering if all LED's come with a built in current limiting device or if most will need to have a resistor wired in line to keep the small power requirements they use from burning out.........any info posted somewhere on wiring in a 15mamp, 12dcv device to show power to the system out there? >Sid >-------------------- > >"Alan K. Adamson" wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > >Opps, helps if you post the link... > >http://www.ledtronics.com/ > > >Don't know if this has been posted before or not, but this place has just >about every LED imaginable and then some. > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > > > > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:00:49 AM PST US
    From: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
    Subject: LED power.......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> you're going to be a great instructor in you "other" life.........and thanks a million, now I don't even have to read anymore..........just follow your little examples and "getter' done" as the cable guy says.............and a Happy Holiday to you and the family also. Great info this morning........ Sid I even used to know Ohm's law.......... :-) ------------------ "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@> wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" Essentially all LEDs require some sort of current limiter. That is, LEDs are current driven devices (rather than voltage driven like a normal incandescent lights) and putting a voltage higher than required to light them will cause almost instant self destruction. But it looks like you already knew that... That said, the LED assemblies offered on the referenced site may very well have internal limiters, especially where they come attached to a threaded plug that is designed to thread into an incandescent lamp socket. Most single (unassembled) LEDs do NOT have an internal limiter and are designed to work with something between 10-30 mA through them. This can be accomplished in a number of ways, but the simplest is just to wire a resistor in series with the LED. When you purchase an LED it should come with specifications that tell you what the operating voltage is (the voltage that it lights at) and the rated maximum current. Let's take a sample red LED with an operating voltage of 1.7V and a maximum current of 30 mA. Let's further assume that you want to operate this at something less than the maximum current to allow for high temperatures in the cockpit and choose 20 mA (a little less than maximum brightness, but probably still very bright). If we are operating this from the alternator/battery voltage we can assume about 14V available (actually 12-14.5V - see below). If we just hooked this to the LED it would be very bright (for a millisecond or two), then very dark :-) . We need to limit the current to the aforementioned 20 mA. So... We take the available voltage (14V) and subtract what the LED needs (1.7V) to get the voltage we need to "discard" (12.3V). We then calculate the resistor we need to allow 20 mA with this voltage (12.3V). Using Ohm's law (V=I*R) and rearranging (R=V/I) we plug the numbers into the equation to get 12.3V/0.02A=615 ohms. That is not one of the standard available values of resistor so we choose a value that is close (620 ohms for 5% resistors or 619 ohms for 1% resistors). Now we have a value but we still have to calculate the power "discarded" in the resistor so we can get one that will not burn up as soon as we turn things on. Power in watts is (W=V*I). Plugging the numbers in we get 12.3V * 0.02A = 0.246 W or 246 mW. Resistors come is various power ratings and we have to choose one that is at least what we just calculated. That means we should use 1/4W at absolute minimum. However, if we choose the 1/4W resistor it will run very hot to dissipate 0.246W of power - potentially shortening it's life and reliability. So we really want to choose at least a 1/2W resistor. That will give it some "elbow room" especially important if it will be operating in a warm environment. Use the same idea for any LED you may buy (different colors have different operating voltages). Additionally, you can connect two LEDs in series for whatever reason (lighting, etc.) and just do the same calculations but use 3.4V (in this case 1.7V times the two LEDs) instead of 1.7V. You can do this with several LEDs but you must allow some series voltage to drop across the resistor (remembering that the voltage on the aircraft bus varies from about 14.5V max. to about 12V min.). As the voltage varies the LEDs will vary in brightness. If you have one LED the "leftover" voltage will vary between 12.8V to 10.3V - a change of approximately 20-25%. If you series several LEDs (say four for a drop of 6.8V), the voltage will vary between 7.7V to 5.2V - a change of 30-50%. So do not add too many in series that you have too low a voltage across the resistor. Do not connect LEDs in parallel!!! If you do, the one that has a slightly lower operating voltage will "hog" all the current - causing it to use too much current (overheat) and be much brighter than the other(s). If you want to wire them in parallel for some reason, use a series resistor for each LED. If you have more questions, please ask. :-) Dick Tasker Sid Hausding wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > >Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas for powering up the little buggers..... > anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning out......? > Sid > ----------------------- > >Sid Hausding wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > >Wondering if all LED's come with a built in current limiting device or if most will need to have a resistor wired in line to keep the small power requirements they use from burning out.........any info posted somewhere on wiring in a 15mamp, 12dcv device to show power to the system out there? >Sid >-------------------- > >"Alan K. Adamson" wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > >Opps, helps if you post the link... > >http://www.ledtronics.com/ > > >Don't know if this has been posted before or not, but this place has just >about every LED imaginable and then some. > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > >"Why can't we all just get along?" > >--------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- "Why can't we all just get along?" ---------------------------------


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:17:21 PM PST US
    From: SMITHBKN@aol.com
    Subject: Connections on S704-1 Relay
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SMITHBKN@aol.com Bob, I've looked at the picture that is available in your reference material, but I'm still not certain I fully understand what connects to what when using this relay for switching a SMALL auxillary battery as you show in Z-35. Your picture shows the following connection labels: 1. (-) 2. (+) 3. COM 4. N.O. 5. N.C. There is also a IN4005 diode wired between (-) and (+) and I think I understand it's purpose but if someone could give me some additional information on exactly what devices the wires connect to I would appreciate. Thanks, Jeff


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:29:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: antenna construction
    From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net> DJ- We got a kit from RST Engineering that had a roll of copper foil tape and some other harware to make dipole antennas. We put a VOR and a glideslope antenna in the wing of our Lancair ES and they work great. The kit comes with a booklet with all the info you need to make just about every kind of antenna. Call Jim Weir and ask if he still does the kit. Hope this helps, John Schroeder On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 11:17:56 -0400, Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> > > Kevin Horton wrote: > >> http://www.rst-engr.com/ > > Hi Kevin, > Thanks for the link! That wasn't the site I was thinking of but > that looks like a good one. They have a booklet they sell for $5 that > apparently has several airplane antenna plans in it, and probably worth > getting to have on hand. > > The site I was thinking of had plans and list of materials > on it so you could build the antennas yourself from raw parts. I've > tried Google with no luck, and I can't seem to find the bookmark for the > site. Ah well... > > Thanks, > > -Dj > do not archive > --


    Message 14


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    Time: 12:42:25 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: LED power.......
    From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net> Sid - Most LEDs you get do not have the resistors needed to bias them. Sooo, you need to do this. Most fixtures using LED's these days come with the biasing already installed for that particular fixture/light. All of the replacement bulbs for cars have the bias installed. Try the following for some of the how-to stuff: http://www.eaa724.org/TechnicalStuff%20.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/led.htm http://members.misty.com/don/ledx.html http://metku.net/index.html?sect=view&n=1&path=mods/ledcalc/index_eng This should get you going. John Schroeder On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:44:40 -0700 (PDT), Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> > > Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas > for powering up the little buggers..... > anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices > and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning > out......? > Sid


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:29:03 PM PST US
    From: "gary" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
    Subject: oh no! OV again
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "gary" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com> I recently had what I suspect is a regulator failure with an EA-81 and Suzuki Samuri alternator. I'm not quite sure exactly what happened but many many thanks to Bob and the list for helping out when I was wiring my plane four or five years ago. My backup battery and backup ignition saved me and got me to the nearest airport (twice). I have a glass VFR panel but didn't want the complexity and weight of a bigger aux bus. My simple little 5AH aux battery is only wired to the backup ignition, second electric fuel pump, and tiny LCD voltmeter. It's just enough to keep the engine running while I get my handheld radio out (with VOR for backup nav). I wired it thru a completely different area of the panel and firewall for complete redundancy. It is connected to the main bus via a diode for charging. I check every preflight that the backup battery and ignition are working. That's the good part - it worked as intended. I was a long time reader on the list but went thru three big moves over the last couple years and I wasn't able to keep up with all my lists and missed a large part of the Paul vs Bob OV discussion as well as anything that took place since. I'm not sure whether to retain my OV module and solenoid but I'll be reading up on things. One of my mistakes was to have a partial OV circuit and the other was not to have sufficient and active engine monitoring. I'm here to learn so feel free to point out any other mistakes that we can learn from. - OV circuit problem last year - I noticed my battery was run down because the alternator was not charging it. I found that the alternator contactor was not closing (used in OV circuit for internally regulated alternators per aeroelectric schematic). I attributed the failure to a poor mounting location - I tried to keep it simple so I put it right between the alt and starter which was on the subaru cylinder head where there were spare mounting holes already tapped in the head. I'm guessing excessive heat and vibration caused the failure. I bypassed the contactor but left the OV module in there intending to relocate the contactor. I should have disconnected the circuit - either all in or all out. - gnd strap problem last fall - while starting the plane, the power fluctuated then dropped out. I traced it to a loose ground strap. Funny, I made all my big cables per Bob's 12 ga wire wedge solder method and all held up great. For some reason I wanted a nice braided steel ground strap so I bought two custom length from an aircraft place for battery to firewall and engine block to firewall. These are the ones that failed - the crimp was loose and the strap pulled right out. Lesson - make redundant ground straps. Another lesson - I gently tug on all bat and gnd straps preflight but the two gnd straps were neatly tie wrapped together so when I checked them, the good one was supporting the bad one. That's both good and bad I guess. I mention this because the incident blew some fuses and must have sent some spikes thru the system, possibly reducing the life of the regulator? - in-flight failure #1 - the other week on the way to SNF, radio blinks, popping in headset, then panel goes black and engine gets quiet. Backup switch on, engine comes back up and land at nearest. Probe around and find battery contactor chattering, not able to keep bat and alt on main bus. Probe around engine and panel for a couple hours, everything else looks ok except alt OV breaker was popped (missed hint?). I assumed the main bus disconnect sent a spike thru the system and popped the breaker. I had a contactor fail before, made sense so I called around for one. No luck, so I move cables to one side of contactor to bypass. Only one hour flight to SNF so I'll find one there. Very long runup, everything looks good - off I go. - in-flight failure #2 - 15 minutes into flight, radio starts blinking and I start cursing. I notice aux bat volts fluctuating between 15.x and 16.x (this is after diode drop from main bus). This is normally at 13.8 volts. Aha! The regulator is bad! Everything goes out again. "golly, gosh darn it" (ya right) Backup switch on, engine comes on again (whew!). Land at nearest. Bad place to land but that's another story. I pull the alt and get a ride to town. I went to an auto parts store and they tested it. It failed on the tester "when the switch was on alternator but passed when it was set to generator". They had no idea what that meant but it sounded like a bad regulator to me. They didn't have a Suzuki Samuri alternator in stock but said a guy up the road fixes them. Off to the guy up the road and he tested it. "Nothing wrong with this alternator" he said. I asked to keep testing, and he got it really hot under full load and it still worked. Maybe under vibration or higher rpm? Dunno. Went to another auto parts store and they ordered one - "be here in two hours". They tested it and it passed on a third type of test stand, this one fully automated. I wanted new anyway. Got the new alt, went back and installed it, but the battery wouldn't come up after charging so it was toast. I found the same size and replaced it. I also removed the overvoltage circuit and removed a diode to ground on the field line from the contactor. It's normally not good to make more than one change at a time but I wanted to remove all in doubt and try to recreate the problem later at home. I ran it up for a long time not feeling good that I didn't understand exactly what happened or find and fix a hard failure. Told the tower that I was going to keep climbing and circling for a while, and everything seemed ok. Made it Lakeland (after doing several laps around Lake Parker #$%@& !), couldn't find a contactor and never found anything else wrong. So it made it to my new home after another 10 hours as-is. Everything seems fine with the new alt, new bat and contactor bypassed (I already ordered a new master contactor). - is it likely for the regulator to go bad but test ok? - would the regulator shut itself down? (someone said they do that) - would the OV ciruit have pulled the "field" line down and caused screwy operation because the OV contactor was not there? - would an overvoltage toast the master contactor? - the first main bus failure makes sense if the master contactor removed all power, but the second time they were hard wired (stupid, yes). Would the OV toast an RG battery that quick? Battery goes high temp and shorts? - do I replace the OV circuit and contactor? I had about 150 hours on it with no problems using the OV circuit. Happy to share my stupidity so nobody else does that, and highly recommend simple redundant circuits that will get you home. Also happy to provide real-world data for discussion here. In my feeble defense, this cross-country move came up quickly with a fixed timeframe so I scrambled to clean up details on the plane but didn't get to replacing or removing OV stuff. The plane flew great from RI to FL after 10 hours and when it failed I was 1000 miles from anyone I knew. If I was near home I don't think I would have continued until it was 100% but I'm also not sure that I would have found anything more than I did. I saved the old alt so I can try to get it to fail (Bob - you want it?). It would be nice to know what happened and improve my design. I'm 90% done with a homemade engine monitor. I have three hall-effect current sensors in place and audio warning with data recording. Would have been nice but I still have 90% to go on it. I think I'll sell that project and buy a new one soon. Gary Krysztopik Pelican/Stratus - 175 hours San Antonio, TX


    Message 16


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    Time: 05:46:58 PM PST US
    From: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com>
    Subject: LED .......
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding <avidsid@yahoo.com> Wow, lots of reading and viewing, but I"m up to it...........getting started tonight.......and Thank you. Sid --------------------------- John Schroeder <jschroeder@> wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Sid - Most LEDs you get do not have the resistors needed to bias them. Sooo, you need to do this. Most fixtures using LED's these days come with the biasing already installed for that particular fixture/light. All of the replacement bulbs for cars have the bias installed. Try the following for some of the how-to stuff: http://www.eaa724.org/TechnicalStuff%20.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/led.htm http://members.misty.com/don/ledx.html http://metku.net/index.html?sect=view&n=1&path=mods/ledcalc/index_eng This should get you going. John Schroeder On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:44:40 -0700 (PDT), Sid Hausding wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sid Hausding > > Yes, nice site with lots of lighting ideas...........but, no tech ideas > for powering up the little buggers..... > anyone done this for their panels or other electric/electronic devices > and can tell me the needed requirements to keep the LED's from burning > out......? > Sid "Why can't we all just get along?" ---------------------------------


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:32:30 PM PST US
    From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
    Subject: Alternator B Lead protection
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> Lectric Bob: I'm using a version of your Z-12 architecture modified for a single 60 AMP alternator (no backup YET, after the airplane flies I'll add an SD-8). My question has to do with alternator B lead fusing and I'll get right to the point..... Is it really necessary to put a fuse, breaker or ANL in this circuit? My thinking on this goes as follows: 1) The B lead would be routed from the alternator to the contactor on the engine side of the firewall only (no heavy wire inside the cockpit). 2) I'm using an 8 gauge Tefzel wire provided in Van's wiring kit. 3) An 8 gauge Tefzel wire will experience appx 30 degree (C) temperature rise at the 60 amps provided by the alternator at maximum output. 4) Even sitting next to a 200 degree (F) engine crankcase the temperature rise on the wire should be within the capability of the wire insulation. 5) Even under extreme charging circumstances the full 60 amps of the alternator will not be flowing in the wire for long periods, limiting the duration of the temperature rise and insulation stress 6) B&C 60 amp externally regulated alternator with LR-3 reg/OV protect The only condition that I can think of that might cause trouble and where a fuse/breaker/ANL would mitigate a possible hazard is: An alternator fault that allows a dead short between the battery positive and crankcase ground through the alternator windings and the B lead. This could burn up the windings in the alternator and possibly melt the B lead. Is this the scenario that the ANL on the B lead is designed to mitigate? What are the probabilities that such a scenario would occur in the field? Any experience with this type of fault in 40 years of working on spam cans? Would you advise against leaving this ANL out or is it just "extra insurance" for some other scenario I'm missing? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Crimping and soldering




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