Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Gerry Holland)
2. 01:07 AM - AW: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Europa (Alfred Buess))
3. 04:27 AM - Strobe noise (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
4. 05:05 AM - Re: Strobe noise (Mickey Coggins)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Earl_Schroeder)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd)
7. 07:06 AM - Re: Strobe noise (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
8. 07:45 AM - Helmet & Headset ponderings (Mickey Coggins)
9. 08:01 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (dsvs@comcast.net)
11. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Dj Merrill)
12. 09:23 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd)
13. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd)
14. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd)
15. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (BobsV35B@aol.com)
16. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (dsvs@comcast.net)
17. 02:48 PM - 20 slot fuse block (Jerry Grimmonpre)
18. 03:26 PM - Re: 20 slot fuse block (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 03:31 PM - Re: 20 slot fuse block (Steve Allison)
20. 04:00 PM - Re: 20 slot fuse block (CORRECTION) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 04:46 PM - Music wiring and switching (Nathan Ulrich)
22. 05:19 PM - Re: Music wiring and switching (Alan K. Adamson)
23. 06:49 PM - Re: Music wiring and switching (SteinAir, Inc.)
24. 07:21 PM - Re: Music wiring and switching (Alan K. Adamson)
25. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Richard E. Tasker)
26. 08:26 PM - (Nathan Ulrich)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
Mark Hi!
> One of my hangarmates has a pair of
> well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the
> foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap...
I had till recently the same raggy but happy Lightspeed Headset (the
Original 15K from 1998) and contacted Lightspeed. Their response was as
follows:
The ear seals are $20 for the pair, $10 for the head pad and the mic muff is
$3. And just to update you on the K series, we still do repairs on these
headsets at no charge but since we haven't produced them since 1999 we are
running out of some parts and there are repairs that we can no longer do.
You may want to consider a trade at some point. You can trade your 15K for
any of the new ANR headsets and get $100 off.
I thought that a fair deal but for now replaced the pads, a 2 minute job if
that. I did purchase an additional and latest low end model, the 15XL and am
very pleased with performance and fit. Good value at $375.00.
Service and response are very good from Lightspeed.
Regards
Gerry in UK
Europa XS Trigear - G-FIZY
Message 2
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Subject: | Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" <ykibuess@bluewin.ch>
Mark,
If you are looking for an affordable, very lightweight and comfortable
alternative to conventional headsets: Try Clarity Aloft
http://www.clarityaloft.com/. I use one and am very happy with it. Noise
attenuation is at least as good as with my Flightcom ANR and the hassle with
batteries or power cords is obsolete. I have no commercial interests in
Clarity Aloft, just my personal experience.
Regards, Alfred
Alfred Buess
CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland
E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch
Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS
(still sanding....)
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Mark E
Navratil
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2006 05:07
An: rv-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Betreff: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil
--> <czechsix@juno.com>
Guys,
I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm thinking
I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head bucket is
just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and beyond. The other
thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in my helmet get
extremely soft with higher temps and don't seem to seal as well as they do
in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised) but the ANR has a
hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it bothersome after
several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc ANR in my helmet
earcups and I imagine there are better systems available from the likes of
Bose and Lightspeed.
So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is the
best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the $1K
price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G
instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X
(iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping).
Couple questions: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better deal
available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it might be
worth waiting...
Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed
model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed headsets
are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good factory support
to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of well-used Lightspeeds
that have the thin covering pealing away from the foam earseals and head
cushions. Still works but looks like crap...
Thanks as always for the input,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed...
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
The archives show strobe noise isn't unique and I have some too. It's pretty low
level and sometimes even seems to go away in my front seat headsets when I
have my intercom turned off (but not always). However, when the intercom is turned
on the strobe sound is amplified to the point where I won't take a passenger.
Oly the strobe noise causes such a problem. Everything seems to fine with
the strobes off.
So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the radio which
is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the strobes needed to be grounded
differently to begin with, or both, or something else!
I have an RV8, the battery is in the back and grounded on a nearby longeron. The
two strobe power supplies are at the wing tips and grounded locally. I could
extend the strobe grounds to bring it all the way back into the fuse but then
left with multiple choices on where to ground as I am using Van's electrical
system "kit".
Ground the strobes to the battery, to the comm radio post, put in RF caps and leave
the rest alone, and how to troubleshoot for root cause the Rear Seat jacks
which might actually be the problem? Any ideas? It's tough to work on the
plane when the weather is so NICE for flying!
The archives show strobe noise isn't unique and I have some too. It's pretty low
level and sometimes even seems to go away in my front seat headsets when I have
my intercom turned off (but not always). However, when the intercom is turned
on the strobe sound is amplified to the point where I won't take a passenger.
Oly the strobe noise causes such a problem. Everything seems to fine with
the strobes off.
So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the radio which
is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the strobes needed to be grounded
differently to begin with, or both, or something else!
I have an RV8, the battery is in the back and grounded on a nearby longeron. The
two strobe power supplies are at the wing tips and grounded locally. I could
extend the strobe grounds to bring it all the way back into the fuse but then
left with multiple choices on where to ground as I am using Van's electrical
system "kit".
Ground the strobes to the battery, to the comm radio post, put in RF caps and leave
the rest alone, and how to troubleshoot for root cause the Rear Seat jacks
which might actually be the problem? Any ideas? It's tough to work on the plane
when the weather is so NICE for flying!
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Strobe noise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the
> radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the
> strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or
> something else!
Lucky, Are your headset jacks isolated from the airframe? Does
the noise match the flashing of the strobes, or is is more
continuous?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno.com>
If you want to support an USA made headset, investigate Sigtronics. I
was told that the overseas made units actually cost ~$15 so making
repairs at low cost doesn't affect the profit margin. The Sigtronics
mike is designed for the frequencies used in aircraft and mask the wind
noise etc. A none ANR version worked fine in a Mustang II and my ANR
version works great in a Lancair. Earl [just my opinion]
Gerry Holland wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
>
> Mark Hi!
>
>
>> One of my hangarmates has a pair of
>> well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the
>> foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap...
>>
>
> I had till recently the same raggy but happy Lightspeed Headset (the
> Original 15K from 1998) and contacted Lightspeed. Their response was as
> follows:
>
> The ear seals are $20 for the pair, $10 for the head pad and the mic muff is
> $3. And just to update you on the K series, we still do repairs on these
> headsets at no charge but since we haven't produced them since 1999 we are
> running out of some parts and there are repairs that we can no longer do.
> You may want to consider a trade at some point. You can trade your 15K for
> any of the new ANR headsets and get $100 off.
>
> I thought that a fair deal but for now replaced the pads, a 2 minute job if
> that. I did purchase an additional and latest low end model, the 15XL and am
> very pleased with performance and fit. Good value at $375.00.
>
> Service and response are very good from Lightspeed.
>
> Regards
>
> Gerry in UK
> Europa XS Trigear - G-FIZY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>> So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
>> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is
>> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the
>> $1K price tag. ...
I have had a pair of Lightspeed 25XL headsets for some time now -- one
pair since they first came out and the second less than a year later.
They have been the most unreliable headsets I have ever owned. I have
had to replace mechanical parts several times and electronics a couple
of times. I have also had to send each of them back to the factory, one
once and the other twice. Support has been extremely good and they have
never charged me for any service or support.
Now the have the peeling black covering on the ear muffs. The ANR no
longer seems to work properly on either one so they are, once again,
going back to the factory. I don't think that my next ANR headset will
come from Lightspeed.
And just so you don't think I am completely down on Lightspeed, I want
you to know that I now use their low-cost non-ANR headset, the QNR. I
got this headset to have for passengers but found that it has the best
passive noise reduction of any headset I have used and it also has the
best overall sound quality -- real high fidelity.
I have one of just about every manufacturer's non-ANR headset kicking
around, e.g. David Clark, Flightcom, Sigtronics, Peltor, Softcomm, and
Telex. I have a pretty good feel for how they all work. (For durability
and overall comfort it is hard to beat the David Clarks with the Oregon
Aero Softtop and Ear Seals.) I also have an HGU-33 helmet with the
Flight Suits earspeakers and the Oregon Aero fit-kit. I love it. Good
passive noise reduction. I don't think I will opt for ANR.
The best ANR headset I have used, bar none, is the Telex digital ANR.
The ANR in that headset is *breathtaking*! You turn it on and you
immediately get ANR like all the other headsets. Then about 10-15
seconds later the rest of the low-freq noise just goes away, like
someone has turn down the noise control. The cancellation is so complete
it is mind boggling. Evidently the DSP in the headset learns the exact
frequencies of the noise and cancels them exactly. The result is
astonishing. And Telex knows how to build a headset mechanically so it
stays together. It is a bit more massive than the Lightspeed but with
proper cushions there is no reason it won't be comfortable all day long.
And after all that I want to add that I am shying away from ANR. ANR
only protects against low-frequency noise. That is fine but hearing loss
comes from mid- and high-frequency noise. Therefore it is the passive
noise reduction of the headset or helmet that protects your hearing. It
seems to me that the manufacturers of ANR headsets focus on the noise
reduction of the ANR at the expense of the overall passive noise
reduction. As a long-time pilot, shooter, and musician I have developed
mild tinnitus (ringing in the ears) even tho' I have tried to protect my
hearing. (I guess I wasn't so careful when I was young and
invulnerable.) Now I am doing everything I can to keep it from getting
worse. Good Passive noise reduction is the first thing I look for in a
headset. The active stuff is just icing on the cake.
Comfort is another big issue for me. I tend to wear headsets for long
periods. Two or three times a year I fly from California to the Virgin
Islands and back, six days and 45-50 flight hours for the round trip. I
can't handle a headset that isn't comfortable to wear for 8 hours. A
standard David Clark type passive headset with the Oregon Aero Softtop
and Ear Seals makes for a very comfortable headset with good passive
noise reduction. Something to think about.
And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about
with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. If you fly a noisy
airplane like a CJ6A, Yak-52, RV-4, etc., you need a *really* good
noise-canceling microphone. Most mics that come with headsets are not
particularly good. Sigtronics has a good electret mic specially designed
for high-noise environments that you can retrofit to almost any headset
that has the wire-frame type mic boom. I have one on my helmet. It works
pretty well even in the CJ6A or Yak-52.
The best mic I have used that came on a production headset came from
Softcomm. The one I have is no longer made but their C-40-20 "Silver
Fox" seems to be its equivalent.
This is probably more information than you wanted but it may help
someone else too.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Strobe noise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Noise matches the strobes.
I didn't think to relook at the passenger jacks but doesn't one or both have an
insulating washer that's installed in order to work at all and if they were installed
wrong wouldn't I also be getting every electrical pulse generated in
the plane like the alternator too?
This issue is only a problem when the strobes are turned on.
I was afraid to write this up without first relooking over all the drawings and
such but I keep convincing myself when I'm actually in the plane that it's most
likely just a strobe power supply grounding issue.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>
> > So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the
> > radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the
> > strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or
> > something else!
>
> Lucky, Are your headset jacks isolated from the airframe? Does
> the noise match the flashing of the strobes, or is is more
> continuous?
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Noise matches the strobes.
I didn't think to relook at the passenger jacks but doesn't one or both have an
insulating washer that's installed in order to work at all and if they were installed
wrong wouldn't I also be getting every electrical pulse generated in
the plane like the alternator too?
This issue is only a problem when the strobes are turned on.
I was afraid to write this up without first relooking over all the drawings and
such but I keep convincing myself when I'm actually in the plane that it's most
likely just a strobe power supply grounding issue.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Mickey Coggins mick-matronics@rv8.ch
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <MICK-MATRONICS@RV8.CH>
So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the
radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the
strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or
something else!
Lucky, Are your headset jacks isolated from the airframe? Does
the noise match the flashing of the strobes, or is is more
continuous?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
_- - The
AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
&g
t;
Message 8
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Subject: | Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> ...
>
> And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about
> with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ...
I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way
to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower
or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the
sound. Any suggestions?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:39 PM 4/19/2006 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Brian Lloyd wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> > ...
> >
> > And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about
> > with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ...
>
>I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way
>to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower
>or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the
>sound. Any suggestions?
There's nothing like "listening to your own radio" to assess
your transmitted quality. Have someone sit in your airplane
while you go across the field (100 yds +) and talk to him
on a handheld . . . it's especially useful to plug a headset
into the hand held.
There are far too many airplanes with lousy audio wherein
other pilots and particularly ATC personell won't gig them
on it.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net
(snip)
> And after all that I want to add that I am shying away from ANR. ANR
> only protects against low-frequency noise. That is fine but hearing loss
> comes from mid- and high-frequency noise. .
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>Brian,
Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq? The ANR process does
work equally at any and all frequencies. Why would the manufacturers choose
only the low freq? I believe that Bose sets may have a more balanced spectrum
and offer protection at the normal speedch level freqs. I will test mine tonight.
Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>>
>>
>>> So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
>>> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is
>>> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the
>>> $1K price tag. ...
FWIW that's what I thought until I tried a set. Bought a pair of
Bose about
2 years ago and never looked back. One of the best investments I have made
(aviation-wise) in my opinion. So far they have been the most comfortable
and best performing headset of any that I have tried.
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>> And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about
>> with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ...
>
> I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way
> to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower
> or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the
> sound. Any suggestions?
There aren't many objective ones. I find my results to be subjective
based on three things:
1. how well I can understand someone else in the airplane over the intercom;
2. how much I have to change the squelch on the intercom during flight;
3. how well ATC understands my transmissions.
Having ATC ask you to "say again" every other transmission is a bad sign
as is having to turn the intercom squelch up so high you have to yell to
break the squelch.
Brian
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
dsvs@comcast.net wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net
>
> (snip)
>> And after all that I want to add that I am shying away from ANR. ANR
>> only protects against low-frequency noise. That is fine but hearing loss
>> comes from mid- and high-frequency noise. .
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>> Brian,
> Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq?
Yes.
> The ANR process does work equally at any and all frequencies.
Not really. As you go up in frequency the wavelengths get shorter. There
is more of a phase shift between the noise-cancellation pickup (mic in
the earcup) and the noise cancellation transducer. It makes it more and
more difficult to maintain the 180 degree phase cancellation.
> Why would the manufacturers choose only the low freq?
The cancellation gets less as the frequency goes up because the phase
shift away from 180 degrees increases. It is just physics. In addition,
if you don't cut off the signal below the point where phase shift
reaches 90 degrees, the system can become unstable and start to "ring"
and eventuall oscillate (feed back).
>I believe that Bose sets may have a more balanced spectrum and offer protection
at the normal speedch level freqs. I will test mine tonight.
It is possible to make it better but it requires more work and better
design. It is $easier$ to get the attenuation passively at the higher
frequencies so that is what most manufacturers do. That may well be the
real reason that the Bose headsets cost $1,000 instead of $350.
Brian
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
dsvs@comcast.net wrote:
> Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq?
Another reason that many ANR headsets cut off the ANR at about 300Hz is
that they are completely autonomous modules and would attenuate speech
frequencies above that. A good design needs to take into account the
audio signal being fed to the earspeakers from the intercom and audio
panel and *not* attenuate that signal. That requires more $design$
$effort$ also. Cutting off the ANR at 300Hz avoids that problem and
allows the designer to build a cheaper module.
Brian
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning DJ,
My experience was similar except that it was my significant other who drove
the decision. I had a full set of high priced headsets in my Bonanza, but she
would not wear any of them.
One day at Oshkosh, while walking by the Bose tent, she noted they were
offering some musical program she wanted to hear. After listening with a set of
Bose Xs, she came back to the tent and told me to buy her one of those because
that one she would wear. After she had her's for about a year and after I
had used it occasionally when she was not onboard, I bought three more of them
and now have a full set.
The Bose Xs are definitely the finest headsets I have ever used.
I have always said that if Momma Ain't Happy, Nobody's Happy, but, in this
case, not only is Momma Happy, so am I!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Do Not Archive and just a small note. For some reason, this message seems to
have developed some large variances in type size. I hope it goes through OK.
In a message dated 4/19/2006 10:50:38 A.M. Central Standard Time,
deej@deej.net writes:
FWIW that's what I thought until I tried a set. Bought a pair of
Bose about
2 years ago and never looked back. One of the best investments I have made
(aviation-wise) in my opinion. So far they have been the most comfortable
and best performing headset of any that I have tried.
-Dj
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> dsvs@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq?
>
> Another reason that many ANR headsets cut off the ANR at about 300Hz is
> that they are completely autonomous modules and would attenuate speech
> frequencies above that. A good design needs to take into account the
> audio signal being fed to the earspeakers from the intercom and audio
> panel and *not* attenuate that signal. That requires more $design$
> $effort$ also. Cutting off the ANR at 300Hz avoids that problem and
> allows the designer to build a cheaper module.
>
> Brian
>
>
Brian,
Thanks for the info. I think you hit it on the head, that is the reason that the
Bose set is much more expensive. I will check my Bose set tonight if I have
the time. I will check the reading inside the earcup at variopus freqs with
the ANR on and off. I will let you know what I find. Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
Subject: | 20 slot fuse block |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Listers ...
Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block?
It's not in their catalog and they don't answer mail for simple questions.
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: 20 slot fuse block |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:42 PM 4/19/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
>Listers ...
>Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block?
>It's not in their catalog and they don't answer mail for simple questions.
>Thanks ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
See page 10 of
http://www.sacramentoelectronics.com/images/bussmann/specialty_catalogs/BUSS_Auto-OEM.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: 20 slot fuse block |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Steve Allison <stevea@svpal.org>
Jerry,
rummaging through the electrical parts stock on the floor:
6.875 (L) x 3.375 (W) inches
The slots are on 5/8" spacing, so you can scale down the length for the
smaller sizes
Steve
Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:
> Listers ...
> Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block?
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: 20 slot fuse block (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:42 PM 4/19/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
>Listers ...
>Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block?
>It's not in their catalog and they don't answer mail for simple questions.
>Thanks ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
Seems the .pdf page isn't the same as the print page. Let's
try something else. I've captured some good Bussmann data
and posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman
Go there and you'll find the 15600 fuseblock dimensions and
other useful stuff on Bussmann.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Music wiring and switching |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" <nulrich@technq.com>
I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a Garmin
396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the music
inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music input jacks
for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install two switches,
one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched between XM audio and
external audio.
Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio panel
has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the passengers, and there
is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or vice versa). This is
different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. I'm assuming I can't wire
the XM audio output from the 396 to both music inputs through a switch, as
the volume would be reduced if both crew and pax were listening to the XM
audio as opposed to just crew or just pax.
Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both the
crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, but at
other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen to
different audio sources.
Thanks,
Nathan Ulrich
nulrich@technq.com
Message 22
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|
Subject: | Music wiring and switching |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
Oh, shucks, I'm not going to be a bunch of help, altho I saw this documented
when I was websurfing a few months ago. Go google for the 340 and the PSE
audio panels. In fact, maybe its on the PSE website in a tech note. This
is actually pretty similar to the 340 and the PSE audio inputs... I just
can't remember where I saw the information.... Dang it... When all else
fails
Also as a fall back, here is the 340 installation manual, you could compare
notes to make sure it's the same. I believe it is.
http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/Legacy/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
Sorry,
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nathan
Ulrich
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich"
--> <nulrich@technq.com>
I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a Garmin
396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the music
inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music input jacks
for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install two switches,
one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched between XM audio and
external audio.
Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio panel
has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the passengers, and there
is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or vice versa). This is
different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. I'm assuming I can't wire
the XM audio output from the 396 to both music inputs through a switch, as
the volume would be reduced if both crew and pax were listening to the XM
audio as opposed to just crew or just pax.
Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both the
crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, but at
other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen to
different audio sources.
Thanks,
Nathan Ulrich
nulrich@technq.com
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Music wiring and switching |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@steinair.com>
Actually, I don't think it's mcuh of a problem because both the PMA and -347
allow you to configure the music inputs (especially "music 1") which can be
selected in the "all" position where everyone hears the input, or just the
pax, etc.. right from the Audio Panel itself. The PSE is a bit stronger in
the distribution capabilities than the GMA, but both have quite a few
options on them.
Another way that is the easiest and quickest way around this issue with both
the -347 and the PMA8000x's is to just use one of the unused "switched"
inputs on the audio panel itself and forget about the actual music inputs.
Not many are actually using the ADF or DME inputs, and although they are not
a soft mute, they are switchable right from the panel and anther good input
option for audio (those of you needing a Chelton Audio Mute this is a good
option). Just simply use the ADF, or DME, etc.. input for the XM music.
Hope that helps a little. Both manuals (PSE and GMA) will tell you how you
can configure the music inputs to do virually anything you want them to.
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nathan
>Ulrich
>Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:42 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich"
><nulrich@technq.com>
>
>I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also
>have a Garmin
>396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the music
>inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music
>input jacks
>for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install two switches,
>one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched between XM audio and
>external audio.
>
>Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio panel
>has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the passengers,
>and there
>is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or vice versa). This is
>different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. I'm assuming I
>can't wire
>the XM audio output from the 396 to both music inputs through a switch, as
>the volume would be reduced if both crew and pax were listening to the XM
>audio as opposed to just crew or just pax.
>
>Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both the
>crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, but at
>other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen to
>different audio sources.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Nathan Ulrich
>nulrich@technq.com
>
>
Message 24
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Subject: | Music wiring and switching |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
But, but but... While I've not wired my audio panel yet, isn't the ADF or
DME inputs MONO only? I didn't think they provided for Stereo?
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir,
Inc.
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc."
--> <stein@steinair.com>
Actually, I don't think it's mcuh of a problem because both the PMA and -347
allow you to configure the music inputs (especially "music 1") which can be
selected in the "all" position where everyone hears the input, or just the
pax, etc.. right from the Audio Panel itself. The PSE is a bit stronger in
the distribution capabilities than the GMA, but both have quite a few
options on them.
Another way that is the easiest and quickest way around this issue with both
the -347 and the PMA8000x's is to just use one of the unused "switched"
inputs on the audio panel itself and forget about the actual music inputs.
Not many are actually using the ADF or DME inputs, and although they are not
a soft mute, they are switchable right from the panel and anther good input
option for audio (those of you needing a Chelton Audio Mute this is a good
option). Just simply use the ADF, or DME, etc.. input for the XM music.
Hope that helps a little. Both manuals (PSE and GMA) will tell you how you
can configure the music inputs to do virually anything you want them to.
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Nathan Ulrich
>Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:42 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich"
><nulrich@technq.com>
>
>I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a
>Garmin 396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the
>music inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music
>input jacks for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install
>two switches, one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched
>between XM audio and external audio.
>
>Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio
>panel has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the
>passengers, and there is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or
>vice versa). This is different from the GMA 340 from what I understand.
>I'm assuming I can't wire the XM audio output from the 396 to both
>music inputs through a switch, as the volume would be reduced if both
>crew and pax were listening to the XM audio as opposed to just crew or
>just pax.
>
>Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both
>the crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times,
>but at other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen
>to different audio sources.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Nathan Ulrich
>nulrich@technq.com
>
>
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Your first answer was correct, but this is plain wrong. The audio
signal comes in from an entirely separate source than the noise
cancellation signal. There is no reason whatsoever that the cutoff
frequency has anything to do with the desired audio response. If you
have found this to be true with any design then the engineer doing the
design didn't know what he was doing. Forty years ago, I couldn't even
spell ingeneir, now I is one :-) .
Now, if you are talking about hearing someone talking to you NOT over
the intercom or airwaves, then, yes, attenuating (noise canceling)
frequencies in the voice band would make it more difficult to hear
them. But definitely NOT so for signals piped in through the phone cord.
Dick Tasker
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>dsvs@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
>
>>Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq?
>>
>>
>
>Another reason that many ANR headsets cut off the ANR at about 300Hz is
>that they are completely autonomous modules and would attenuate speech
>frequencies above that. A good design needs to take into account the
>audio signal being fed to the earspeakers from the intercom and audio
>panel and *not* attenuate that signal. That requires more $design$
>$effort$ also. Cutting off the ANR at 300Hz avoids that problem and
>allows the designer to build a cheaper module.
>
>Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
Message 26
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" <nulrich@technq.com>
Thanks for the thoughts, but I'm afraid the GMA 347 is different from the
GMA 340. There is no documented way to configure the unit so that both crew
and pax hear the same music input. From the installation manual:
"Only the pilot and copilot hear MUSIC 1. MUSIC 2 is a non-muted input heard
only by the passengers. MUSIC 1 and MUSIC 2 characteristics are not affected
by the active intercom mode."
There's nothing in the configuration instructions that shows how to change
this. And, yes, the ADF and DME inputs are useful, especially since I'm not
using either, and I'm using one for traffic alert. But they are mono.
So, back to my original question. Any way to "split" the audio from the 396
so it can feed both MUSIC 1 and MUSIC 2 without changing volume depending on
whether one or both is active?
Thanks,
Nathan
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson"
<aadamson@highrf.com>
But, but but... While I've not wired my audio panel yet, isn't the ADF or
DME inputs MONO only? I didn't think they provided for Stereo?
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir,
Inc.
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: Music wiring and switching
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc."
--> <stein@steinair.com>
Actually, I don't think it's mcuh of a problem because both the PMA and -347
allow you to configure the music inputs (especially "music 1") which can be
selected in the "all" position where everyone hears the input, or just the
pax, etc.. right from the Audio Panel itself. The PSE is a bit stronger in
the distribution capabilities than the GMA, but both have quite a few
options on them.
Another way that is the easiest and quickest way around this issue with both
the -347 and the PMA8000x's is to just use one of the unused "switched"
inputs on the audio panel itself and forget about the actual music inputs.
Not many are actually using the ADF or DME inputs, and although they are not
a soft mute, they are switchable right from the panel and anther good input
option for audio (those of you needing a Chelton Audio Mute this is a good
option). Just simply use the ADF, or DME, etc.. input for the XM music.
Hope that helps a little. Both manuals (PSE and GMA) will tell you how you
can configure the music inputs to do virually anything you want them to.
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Nathan Ulrich
>Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:42 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Music wiring and switching
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich"
><nulrich@technq.com>
>
>I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a
>Garmin 396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the
>music inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music
>input jacks for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install
>two switches, one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched
>between XM audio and external audio.
>
>Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio
>panel has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the
>passengers, and there is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or
>vice versa). This is different from the GMA 340 from what I understand.
>I'm assuming I can't wire the XM audio output from the 396 to both
>music inputs through a switch, as the volume would be reduced if both
>crew and pax were listening to the XM audio as opposed to just crew or
>just pax.
>
>Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both
>the crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times,
>but at other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen
>to different audio sources.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Nathan Ulrich
>nulrich@technq.com
>
>
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