---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/19/06: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:53 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Gerry Holland) 2. 01:07 AM - AW: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 3. 04:27 AM - Strobe noise (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 4. 05:05 AM - Re: Strobe noise (Mickey Coggins) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Earl_Schroeder) 6. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd) 7. 07:06 AM - Re: Strobe noise (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 8. 07:45 AM - Helmet & Headset ponderings (Mickey Coggins) 9. 08:01 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (dsvs@comcast.net) 11. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Dj Merrill) 12. 09:23 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd) 13. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd) 14. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Brian Lloyd) 15. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (BobsV35B@aol.com) 16. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (dsvs@comcast.net) 17. 02:48 PM - 20 slot fuse block (Jerry Grimmonpre) 18. 03:26 PM - Re: 20 slot fuse block (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 03:31 PM - Re: 20 slot fuse block (Steve Allison) 20. 04:00 PM - Re: 20 slot fuse block (CORRECTION) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 04:46 PM - Music wiring and switching (Nathan Ulrich) 22. 05:19 PM - Re: Music wiring and switching (Alan K. Adamson) 23. 06:49 PM - Re: Music wiring and switching (SteinAir, Inc.) 24. 07:21 PM - Re: Music wiring and switching (Alan K. Adamson) 25. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Richard E. Tasker) 26. 08:26 PM - (Nathan Ulrich) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings From: Gerry Holland --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Mark Hi! > One of my hangarmates has a pair of > well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the > foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap... I had till recently the same raggy but happy Lightspeed Headset (the Original 15K from 1998) and contacted Lightspeed. Their response was as follows: The ear seals are $20 for the pair, $10 for the head pad and the mic muff is $3. And just to update you on the K series, we still do repairs on these headsets at no charge but since we haven't produced them since 1999 we are running out of some parts and there are repairs that we can no longer do. You may want to consider a trade at some point. You can trade your 15K for any of the new ANR headsets and get $100 off. I thought that a fair deal but for now replaced the pads, a 2 minute job if that. I did purchase an additional and latest low end model, the 15XL and am very pleased with performance and fit. Good value at $375.00. Service and response are very good from Lightspeed. Regards Gerry in UK Europa XS Trigear - G-FIZY ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:04 AM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Mark, If you are looking for an affordable, very lightweight and comfortable alternative to conventional headsets: Try Clarity Aloft http://www.clarityaloft.com/. I use one and am very happy with it. Noise attenuation is at least as good as with my Flightcom ANR and the hassle with batteries or power cords is obsolete. I have no commercial interests in Clarity Aloft, just my personal experience. Regards, Alfred Alfred Buess CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS (still sanding....) -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Mark E Navratil Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2006 05:07 An: rv-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Betreff: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil --> Guys, I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm thinking I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head bucket is just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and beyond. The other thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in my helmet get extremely soft with higher temps and don't seem to seal as well as they do in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised) but the ANR has a hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it bothersome after several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc ANR in my helmet earcups and I imagine there are better systems available from the likes of Bose and Lightspeed. So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping). Couple questions: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better deal available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it might be worth waiting... Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed headsets are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good factory support to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap... Thanks as always for the input, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:36 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobe noise --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) The archives show strobe noise isn't unique and I have some too. It's pretty low level and sometimes even seems to go away in my front seat headsets when I have my intercom turned off (but not always). However, when the intercom is turned on the strobe sound is amplified to the point where I won't take a passenger. Oly the strobe noise causes such a problem. Everything seems to fine with the strobes off. So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or something else! I have an RV8, the battery is in the back and grounded on a nearby longeron. The two strobe power supplies are at the wing tips and grounded locally. I could extend the strobe grounds to bring it all the way back into the fuse but then left with multiple choices on where to ground as I am using Van's electrical system "kit". Ground the strobes to the battery, to the comm radio post, put in RF caps and leave the rest alone, and how to troubleshoot for root cause the Rear Seat jacks which might actually be the problem? Any ideas? It's tough to work on the plane when the weather is so NICE for flying! The archives show strobe noise isn't unique and I have some too. It's pretty low level and sometimes even seems to go away in my front seat headsets when I have my intercom turned off (but not always). However, when the intercom is turned on the strobe sound is amplified to the point where I won't take a passenger. Oly the strobe noise causes such a problem. Everything seems to fine with the strobes off. So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or something else! I have an RV8, the battery is in the back and grounded on a nearby longeron. The two strobe power supplies are at the wing tips and grounded locally. I could extend the strobe grounds to bring it all the way back into the fuse but then left with multiple choices on where to ground as I am using Van's electrical system "kit". Ground the strobes to the battery, to the comm radio post, put in RF caps and leave the rest alone, and how to troubleshoot for root cause the Rear Seat jacks which might actually be the problem? Any ideas? It's tough to work on the plane when the weather is so NICE for flying! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:52 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe noise --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the > radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the > strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or > something else! Lucky, Are your headset jacks isolated from the airframe? Does the noise match the flashing of the strobes, or is is more continuous? -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:23 AM PST US From: Earl_Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder If you want to support an USA made headset, investigate Sigtronics. I was told that the overseas made units actually cost ~$15 so making repairs at low cost doesn't affect the profit margin. The Sigtronics mike is designed for the frequencies used in aircraft and mask the wind noise etc. A none ANR version worked fine in a Mustang II and my ANR version works great in a Lancair. Earl [just my opinion] Gerry Holland wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > > Mark Hi! > > >> One of my hangarmates has a pair of >> well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the >> foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap... >> > > I had till recently the same raggy but happy Lightspeed Headset (the > Original 15K from 1998) and contacted Lightspeed. Their response was as > follows: > > The ear seals are $20 for the pair, $10 for the head pad and the mic muff is > $3. And just to update you on the K series, we still do repairs on these > headsets at no charge but since we haven't produced them since 1999 we are > running out of some parts and there are repairs that we can no longer do. > You may want to consider a trade at some point. You can trade your 15K for > any of the new ANR headsets and get $100 off. > > I thought that a fair deal but for now replaced the pads, a 2 minute job if > that. I did purchase an additional and latest low end model, the 15XL and am > very pleased with performance and fit. Good value at $375.00. > > Service and response are very good from Lightspeed. > > Regards > > Gerry in UK > Europa XS Trigear - G-FIZY > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:37 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Mickey Coggins wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >> So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some >> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is >> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the >> $1K price tag. ... I have had a pair of Lightspeed 25XL headsets for some time now -- one pair since they first came out and the second less than a year later. They have been the most unreliable headsets I have ever owned. I have had to replace mechanical parts several times and electronics a couple of times. I have also had to send each of them back to the factory, one once and the other twice. Support has been extremely good and they have never charged me for any service or support. Now the have the peeling black covering on the ear muffs. The ANR no longer seems to work properly on either one so they are, once again, going back to the factory. I don't think that my next ANR headset will come from Lightspeed. And just so you don't think I am completely down on Lightspeed, I want you to know that I now use their low-cost non-ANR headset, the QNR. I got this headset to have for passengers but found that it has the best passive noise reduction of any headset I have used and it also has the best overall sound quality -- real high fidelity. I have one of just about every manufacturer's non-ANR headset kicking around, e.g. David Clark, Flightcom, Sigtronics, Peltor, Softcomm, and Telex. I have a pretty good feel for how they all work. (For durability and overall comfort it is hard to beat the David Clarks with the Oregon Aero Softtop and Ear Seals.) I also have an HGU-33 helmet with the Flight Suits earspeakers and the Oregon Aero fit-kit. I love it. Good passive noise reduction. I don't think I will opt for ANR. The best ANR headset I have used, bar none, is the Telex digital ANR. The ANR in that headset is *breathtaking*! You turn it on and you immediately get ANR like all the other headsets. Then about 10-15 seconds later the rest of the low-freq noise just goes away, like someone has turn down the noise control. The cancellation is so complete it is mind boggling. Evidently the DSP in the headset learns the exact frequencies of the noise and cancels them exactly. The result is astonishing. And Telex knows how to build a headset mechanically so it stays together. It is a bit more massive than the Lightspeed but with proper cushions there is no reason it won't be comfortable all day long. And after all that I want to add that I am shying away from ANR. ANR only protects against low-frequency noise. That is fine but hearing loss comes from mid- and high-frequency noise. Therefore it is the passive noise reduction of the headset or helmet that protects your hearing. It seems to me that the manufacturers of ANR headsets focus on the noise reduction of the ANR at the expense of the overall passive noise reduction. As a long-time pilot, shooter, and musician I have developed mild tinnitus (ringing in the ears) even tho' I have tried to protect my hearing. (I guess I wasn't so careful when I was young and invulnerable.) Now I am doing everything I can to keep it from getting worse. Good Passive noise reduction is the first thing I look for in a headset. The active stuff is just icing on the cake. Comfort is another big issue for me. I tend to wear headsets for long periods. Two or three times a year I fly from California to the Virgin Islands and back, six days and 45-50 flight hours for the round trip. I can't handle a headset that isn't comfortable to wear for 8 hours. A standard David Clark type passive headset with the Oregon Aero Softtop and Ear Seals makes for a very comfortable headset with good passive noise reduction. Something to think about. And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. If you fly a noisy airplane like a CJ6A, Yak-52, RV-4, etc., you need a *really* good noise-canceling microphone. Most mics that come with headsets are not particularly good. Sigtronics has a good electret mic specially designed for high-noise environments that you can retrofit to almost any headset that has the wire-frame type mic boom. I have one on my helmet. It works pretty well even in the CJ6A or Yak-52. The best mic I have used that came on a production headset came from Softcomm. The one I have is no longer made but their C-40-20 "Silver Fox" seems to be its equivalent. This is probably more information than you wanted but it may help someone else too. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:06 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe noise --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Noise matches the strobes. I didn't think to relook at the passenger jacks but doesn't one or both have an insulating washer that's installed in order to work at all and if they were installed wrong wouldn't I also be getting every electrical pulse generated in the plane like the alternator too? This issue is only a problem when the strobes are turned on. I was afraid to write this up without first relooking over all the drawings and such but I keep convincing myself when I'm actually in the plane that it's most likely just a strobe power supply grounding issue. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Mickey Coggins > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the > > radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the > > strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or > > something else! > > Lucky, Are your headset jacks isolated from the airframe? Does > the noise match the flashing of the strobes, or is is more > continuous? > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 finishing > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > Noise matches the strobes. I didn't think to relook at the passenger jacks but doesn't one or both have an insulating washer that's installed in order to work at all and if they were installed wrong wouldn't I also be getting every electrical pulse generated in the plane like the alternator too? This issue is only a problem when the strobes are turned on. I was afraid to write this up without first relooking over all the drawings and such but I keep convincing myself when I'm actually in the plane that it's most likely just a strobe power supply grounding issue. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Mickey Coggins mick-matronics@rv8.ch -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins So the rear seat headset jacks/wire are bringing the noise into the radio which is made worse when the intercom is powered on or the strobes needed to be grounded differently to begin with, or both, or something else! Lucky, Are your headset jacks isolated from the airframe? Does the noise match the flashing of the strobes, or is is more continuous? -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive _- - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - &g t; ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:19 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Brian Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > ... > > And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about > with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ... I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the sound. Any suggestions? -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:39 PM 4/19/2006 +0200, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > >Brian Lloyd wrote: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > ... > > > > And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about > > with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ... > >I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way >to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower >or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the >sound. Any suggestions? There's nothing like "listening to your own radio" to assess your transmitted quality. Have someone sit in your airplane while you go across the field (100 yds +) and talk to him on a handheld . . . it's especially useful to plug a headset into the hand held. There are far too many airplanes with lousy audio wherein other pilots and particularly ATC personell won't gig them on it. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:01 AM PST US From: dsvs@comcast.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net (snip) > And after all that I want to add that I am shying away from ANR. ANR > only protects against low-frequency noise. That is fine but hearing loss > comes from mid- and high-frequency noise. . > > -- > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way > brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > >Brian, Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq? The ANR process does work equally at any and all frequencies. Why would the manufacturers choose only the low freq? I believe that Bose sets may have a more balanced spectrum and offer protection at the normal speedch level freqs. I will test mine tonight. Don > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings From: Dj Merrill --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill > Mickey Coggins wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >> >> >>> So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some >>> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is >>> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the >>> $1K price tag. ... FWIW that's what I thought until I tried a set. Bought a pair of Bose about 2 years ago and never looked back. One of the best investments I have made (aviation-wise) in my opinion. So far they have been the most comfortable and best performing headset of any that I have tried. -Dj do not archive -- Dj Merrill Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/ "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:37 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Mickey Coggins wrote: >> And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about >> with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ... > > I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way > to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower > or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the > sound. Any suggestions? There aren't many objective ones. I find my results to be subjective based on three things: 1. how well I can understand someone else in the airplane over the intercom; 2. how much I have to change the squelch on the intercom during flight; 3. how well ATC understands my transmissions. Having ATC ask you to "say again" every other transmission is a bad sign as is having to turn the intercom squelch up so high you have to yell to break the squelch. Brian ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:37 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd dsvs@comcast.net wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net > > (snip) >> And after all that I want to add that I am shying away from ANR. ANR >> only protects against low-frequency noise. That is fine but hearing loss >> comes from mid- and high-frequency noise. . >> >> -- >> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way >> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 >> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) >> >> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . >> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery >> >> Brian, > Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq? Yes. > The ANR process does work equally at any and all frequencies. Not really. As you go up in frequency the wavelengths get shorter. There is more of a phase shift between the noise-cancellation pickup (mic in the earcup) and the noise cancellation transducer. It makes it more and more difficult to maintain the 180 degree phase cancellation. > Why would the manufacturers choose only the low freq? The cancellation gets less as the frequency goes up because the phase shift away from 180 degrees increases. It is just physics. In addition, if you don't cut off the signal below the point where phase shift reaches 90 degrees, the system can become unstable and start to "ring" and eventuall oscillate (feed back). >I believe that Bose sets may have a more balanced spectrum and offer protection at the normal speedch level freqs. I will test mine tonight. It is possible to make it better but it requires more work and better design. It is $easier$ to get the attenuation passively at the higher frequencies so that is what most manufacturers do. That may well be the real reason that the Bose headsets cost $1,000 instead of $350. Brian ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:31 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd dsvs@comcast.net wrote: > Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq? Another reason that many ANR headsets cut off the ANR at about 300Hz is that they are completely autonomous modules and would attenuate speech frequencies above that. A good design needs to take into account the audio signal being fed to the earspeakers from the intercom and audio panel and *not* attenuate that signal. That requires more $design$ $effort$ also. Cutting off the ANR at 300Hz avoids that problem and allows the designer to build a cheaper module. Brian ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:13 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com Good Morning DJ, My experience was similar except that it was my significant other who drove the decision. I had a full set of high priced headsets in my Bonanza, but she would not wear any of them. One day at Oshkosh, while walking by the Bose tent, she noted they were offering some musical program she wanted to hear. After listening with a set of Bose Xs, she came back to the tent and told me to buy her one of those because that one she would wear. After she had her's for about a year and after I had used it occasionally when she was not onboard, I bought three more of them and now have a full set. The Bose Xs are definitely the finest headsets I have ever used. I have always said that if Momma Ain't Happy, Nobody's Happy, but, in this case, not only is Momma Happy, so am I! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 Do Not Archive and just a small note. For some reason, this message seems to have developed some large variances in type size. I hope it goes through OK. In a message dated 4/19/2006 10:50:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, deej@deej.net writes: FWIW that's what I thought until I tried a set. Bought a pair of Bose about 2 years ago and never looked back. One of the best investments I have made (aviation-wise) in my opinion. So far they have been the most comfortable and best performing headset of any that I have tried. -Dj ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:02 AM PST US From: dsvs@comcast.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Brian Lloyd > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > dsvs@comcast.net wrote: > > > Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq? > > Another reason that many ANR headsets cut off the ANR at about 300Hz is > that they are completely autonomous modules and would attenuate speech > frequencies above that. A good design needs to take into account the > audio signal being fed to the earspeakers from the intercom and audio > panel and *not* attenuate that signal. That requires more $design$ > $effort$ also. Cutting off the ANR at 300Hz avoids that problem and > allows the designer to build a cheaper module. > > Brian > > Brian, Thanks for the info. I think you hit it on the head, that is the reason that the Bose set is much more expensive. I will check my Bose set tonight if I have the time. I will check the reading inside the earcup at variopus freqs with the ANR on and off. I will let you know what I find. Don > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:50 PM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: AeroElectric-List: 20 slot fuse block --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Listers ... Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block? It's not in their catalog and they don't answer mail for simple questions. Thanks ... Jerry Grimmonpre' ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:14 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 20 slot fuse block --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:42 PM 4/19/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" > >Listers ... >Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block? >It's not in their catalog and they don't answer mail for simple questions. >Thanks ... >Jerry Grimmonpre' See page 10 of http://www.sacramentoelectronics.com/images/bussmann/specialty_catalogs/BUSS_Auto-OEM.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:23 PM PST US From: Steve Allison Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 20 slot fuse block --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Steve Allison Jerry, rummaging through the electrical parts stock on the floor: 6.875 (L) x 3.375 (W) inches The slots are on 5/8" spacing, so you can scale down the length for the smaller sizes Steve Jerry Grimmonpre wrote: > Listers ... > Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:45 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 20 slot fuse block (CORRECTION) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:42 PM 4/19/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" > >Listers ... >Can someone please post the length and width of B & C's 20 slot fuse block? >It's not in their catalog and they don't answer mail for simple questions. >Thanks ... >Jerry Grimmonpre' Seems the .pdf page isn't the same as the print page. Let's try something else. I've captured some good Bussmann data and posted at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman Go there and you'll find the 15600 fuseblock dimensions and other useful stuff on Bussmann. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:32 PM PST US From: "Nathan Ulrich" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a Garmin 396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the music inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music input jacks for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install two switches, one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched between XM audio and external audio. Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio panel has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the passengers, and there is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or vice versa). This is different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. I'm assuming I can't wire the XM audio output from the 396 to both music inputs through a switch, as the volume would be reduced if both crew and pax were listening to the XM audio as opposed to just crew or just pax. Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both the crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, but at other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen to different audio sources. Thanks, Nathan Ulrich nulrich@technq.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:14 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" Oh, shucks, I'm not going to be a bunch of help, altho I saw this documented when I was websurfing a few months ago. Go google for the 340 and the PSE audio panels. In fact, maybe its on the PSE website in a tech note. This is actually pretty similar to the 340 and the PSE audio inputs... I just can't remember where I saw the information.... Dang it... When all else fails Also as a fall back, here is the 340 installation manual, you could compare notes to make sure it's the same. I believe it is. http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/Legacy/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf Sorry, Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Ulrich Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:42 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" --> I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a Garmin 396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the music inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music input jacks for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install two switches, one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched between XM audio and external audio. Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio panel has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the passengers, and there is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or vice versa). This is different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. I'm assuming I can't wire the XM audio output from the 396 to both music inputs through a switch, as the volume would be reduced if both crew and pax were listening to the XM audio as opposed to just crew or just pax. Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both the crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, but at other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen to different audio sources. Thanks, Nathan Ulrich nulrich@technq.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:25 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." Actually, I don't think it's mcuh of a problem because both the PMA and -347 allow you to configure the music inputs (especially "music 1") which can be selected in the "all" position where everyone hears the input, or just the pax, etc.. right from the Audio Panel itself. The PSE is a bit stronger in the distribution capabilities than the GMA, but both have quite a few options on them. Another way that is the easiest and quickest way around this issue with both the -347 and the PMA8000x's is to just use one of the unused "switched" inputs on the audio panel itself and forget about the actual music inputs. Not many are actually using the ADF or DME inputs, and although they are not a soft mute, they are switchable right from the panel and anther good input option for audio (those of you needing a Chelton Audio Mute this is a good option). Just simply use the ADF, or DME, etc.. input for the XM music. Hope that helps a little. Both manuals (PSE and GMA) will tell you how you can configure the music inputs to do virually anything you want them to. Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nathan >Ulrich >Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:42 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" > > >I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also >have a Garmin >396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the music >inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music >input jacks >for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install two switches, >one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched between XM audio and >external audio. > >Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio panel >has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the passengers, >and there >is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or vice versa). This is >different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. I'm assuming I >can't wire >the XM audio output from the 396 to both music inputs through a switch, as >the volume would be reduced if both crew and pax were listening to the XM >audio as opposed to just crew or just pax. > >Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both the >crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, but at >other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen to >different audio sources. > >Thanks, > >Nathan Ulrich >nulrich@technq.com > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:53 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" But, but but... While I've not wired my audio panel yet, isn't the ADF or DME inputs MONO only? I didn't think they provided for Stereo? Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, Inc. Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." --> Actually, I don't think it's mcuh of a problem because both the PMA and -347 allow you to configure the music inputs (especially "music 1") which can be selected in the "all" position where everyone hears the input, or just the pax, etc.. right from the Audio Panel itself. The PSE is a bit stronger in the distribution capabilities than the GMA, but both have quite a few options on them. Another way that is the easiest and quickest way around this issue with both the -347 and the PMA8000x's is to just use one of the unused "switched" inputs on the audio panel itself and forget about the actual music inputs. Not many are actually using the ADF or DME inputs, and although they are not a soft mute, they are switchable right from the panel and anther good input option for audio (those of you needing a Chelton Audio Mute this is a good option). Just simply use the ADF, or DME, etc.. input for the XM music. Hope that helps a little. Both manuals (PSE and GMA) will tell you how you can configure the music inputs to do virually anything you want them to. Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of >Nathan Ulrich >Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:42 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music wiring and switching > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" > > >I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a >Garmin 396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the >music inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music >input jacks for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install >two switches, one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched >between XM audio and external audio. > >Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio >panel has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the >passengers, and there is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or >vice versa). This is different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. >I'm assuming I can't wire the XM audio output from the 396 to both >music inputs through a switch, as the volume would be reduced if both >crew and pax were listening to the XM audio as opposed to just crew or >just pax. > >Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both >the crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, >but at other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen >to different audio sources. > >Thanks, > >Nathan Ulrich >nulrich@technq.com > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:39 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" Your first answer was correct, but this is plain wrong. The audio signal comes in from an entirely separate source than the noise cancellation signal. There is no reason whatsoever that the cutoff frequency has anything to do with the desired audio response. If you have found this to be true with any design then the engineer doing the design didn't know what he was doing. Forty years ago, I couldn't even spell ingeneir, now I is one :-) . Now, if you are talking about hearing someone talking to you NOT over the intercom or airwaves, then, yes, attenuating (noise canceling) frequencies in the voice band would make it more difficult to hear them. But definitely NOT so for signals piped in through the phone cord. Dick Tasker Brian Lloyd wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > >dsvs@comcast.net wrote: > > > >>Are you sure about the ANR sets do not work at higher freq? >> >> > >Another reason that many ANR headsets cut off the ANR at about 300Hz is >that they are completely autonomous modules and would attenuate speech >frequencies above that. A good design needs to take into account the >audio signal being fed to the earspeakers from the intercom and audio >panel and *not* attenuate that signal. That requires more $design$ >$effort$ also. Cutting off the ANR at 300Hz avoids that problem and >allows the designer to build a cheaper module. > >Brian > > > > > > > > > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:00 PM PST US From: "Nathan Ulrich" Subject: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" Thanks for the thoughts, but I'm afraid the GMA 347 is different from the GMA 340. There is no documented way to configure the unit so that both crew and pax hear the same music input. From the installation manual: "Only the pilot and copilot hear MUSIC 1. MUSIC 2 is a non-muted input heard only by the passengers. MUSIC 1 and MUSIC 2 characteristics are not affected by the active intercom mode." There's nothing in the configuration instructions that shows how to change this. And, yes, the ADF and DME inputs are useful, especially since I'm not using either, and I'm using one for traffic alert. But they are mono. So, back to my original question. Any way to "split" the audio from the 396 so it can feed both MUSIC 1 and MUSIC 2 without changing volume depending on whether one or both is active? Thanks, Nathan --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" But, but but... While I've not wired my audio panel yet, isn't the ADF or DME inputs MONO only? I didn't think they provided for Stereo? Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, Inc. Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: RE: Music wiring and switching --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." --> Actually, I don't think it's mcuh of a problem because both the PMA and -347 allow you to configure the music inputs (especially "music 1") which can be selected in the "all" position where everyone hears the input, or just the pax, etc.. right from the Audio Panel itself. The PSE is a bit stronger in the distribution capabilities than the GMA, but both have quite a few options on them. Another way that is the easiest and quickest way around this issue with both the -347 and the PMA8000x's is to just use one of the unused "switched" inputs on the audio panel itself and forget about the actual music inputs. Not many are actually using the ADF or DME inputs, and although they are not a soft mute, they are switchable right from the panel and anther good input option for audio (those of you needing a Chelton Audio Mute this is a good option). Just simply use the ADF, or DME, etc.. input for the XM music. Hope that helps a little. Both manuals (PSE and GMA) will tell you how you can configure the music inputs to do virually anything you want them to. Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of >Nathan Ulrich >Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:42 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Music wiring and switching > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Nathan Ulrich" > > >I'm installing a Garmin 347 audio panel, their new one. I also have a >Garmin 396, and I'd like to wire the XM radio audio from the 396 to the >music inputs on the 347. I was planning to also wire in external music >input jacks for both the crew and the passengers. I thought I'd install >two switches, one for the pax and one for the crew, that switched >between XM audio and external audio. > >Unfortunately, from what the installation manual says, the 347 audio >panel has two music inputs, one for the crew and one for the >passengers, and there is no way to have the pax hear the crew audio (or >vice versa). This is different from the GMA 340 from what I understand. >I'm assuming I can't wire the XM audio output from the 396 to both >music inputs through a switch, as the volume would be reduced if both >crew and pax were listening to the XM audio as opposed to just crew or >just pax. > >Anyone have ideas about how to make this work? I'd really like for both >the crew and passengers to be able to listen to the XM audio at times, >but at other times I'm sure the passengers and crew will want to listen >to different audio sources. > >Thanks, > >Nathan Ulrich >nulrich@technq.com > >