---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/21/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:58 AM - Com Setting Off ELT (MikeEasley@aol.com) 2. 04:58 AM - Garmin XM Receivers Aviation vs. Marine (MikeEasley@aol.com) 3. 05:42 AM - Re: Com Setting Off ELT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:16 AM - Re: (Marty) 5. 06:25 AM - Re: Garmin XM Receivers Aviation vs. Marine (Alan K. Adamson) 6. 07:02 AM - Re: Com Setting Off ELT (Brian Lloyd) 7. 07:18 AM - Re: (Brian Lloyd) 8. 07:25 AM - Re: Com Setting Off ELT (Alan K. Adamson) 9. 08:15 AM - Re: (Marty) 10. 08:29 AM - Re: (Dj Merrill) 11. 10:05 AM - Cup warmer (Brian Lloyd) 12. 10:05 AM - Re: (Brian Lloyd) 13. 10:21 AM - Re: Cup warmer (Reginald E. DeLoach) 14. 11:50 AM - Re: Com Setting Off ELT (ZPO) 15. 04:44 PM - KY 196 voltage (Doug Baleshta) 16. 09:46 PM - Remote switchs ky97 radio (guy fulton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:35 AM PST US From: MikeEasley@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Com Setting Off ELT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com My friend with a Glasair IIFT has an interesting problem. The ELT goes off when he transmits on his com radio, sometimes. It's very intermittent. We talked to the guys at ACK and they recommended moving the ELT farther from the com antenna cable (RG58). It's seems to be far enough away from the com antenna, about 5 feet. We took the ELT out of its mounting bracket and moved it closer to the antenna wire, nothing; closer to the panel, nothing; closer to the antenna, nothing. We got it to go off with the remote wiring to the panel disconnected and the antenna disconnected, once, just the ELT box in my hand. We must be getting some leakage from the com that's activating some small electronic device in the ELT. Or could it be some buildup of static. The light that's on the panel that flashes when the ELT is activated flickers sometimes when the com is transmitting, sometimes. Any ideas? Mike Easley Colorado Springs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:35 AM PST US From: MikeEasley@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin XM Receivers Aviation vs. Marine --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com Garmin sells an XM weather receiver, GDL 69A, that will hook up to my MX20 for about $5,800 list. Garmin also makes an XM weather receiver for the marine market, GDL 30A, that has a street price of around $600. Any chance that a resourceful experimental pilot could get the marine unit to work with an MX20? Mike Easley ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Com Setting Off ELT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:53 AM 4/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > >My friend with a Glasair IIFT has an interesting problem. The ELT goes off >when he transmits on his com radio, sometimes. It's very intermittent. We >talked to the guys at ACK and they recommended moving the ELT farther >from the >com antenna cable (RG58). It's seems to be far enough away from the com >antenna, about 5 feet. We took the ELT out of its mounting bracket and >moved it >closer to the antenna wire, nothing; closer to the panel, nothing; closer to >the antenna, nothing. We got it to go off with the remote wiring to the >panel disconnected and the antenna disconnected, once, just the ELT box >in my >hand. We must be getting some leakage from the com that's activating some >small electronic device in the ELT. Or could it be some buildup of >static. The >light that's on the panel that flashes when the ELT is activated flickers >sometimes when the com is transmitting, sometimes. > >Any ideas? Yeah . . . but you're not going to like them. We've discussed DO-160 testing criteria that most manufacturers subscribe to when building products for aircraft. When ACK brought their product onto the market, it's almost a sure bet that all powers-that-be recommended and subscribed to some level of radiated susceptibility that would be appropriate to installation in an all metal airplane where antennas are (obviously) on the outside. They no doubt conducted the tests and found the product acceptable for that environment. Now comes the OBAM aircraft owner with an RF transparent structure where it's almost a sure bet that the ship's VHF comm transmitter is radiating the ELT with more RF than the ELT was tested to. Just for grins, leave the ELT hooked up to it's antenna. Disconnect the control lead. Wrap the ELT in aluminum foil such that the foil comes up over the top and wraps as tightly around the antenna connector shell as you can make it. I'd cut a fat rubber band and use the rubber strip to put lots of tensioned turns around the connector shell to press the foil against it. Now you have an RF tight enclosure with only the antenna coming to the outside. It's a reasonably safe bet that you'll not be able to duplicate the trips. Did somebody stub their toe here? No. The product was probably subject to a good faith examination of performance for the target market which at the time, did not include plastic airplanes. Could they fix it? You betcha. The problem is that any changes to design would force a complete re-qualification effort in most FAA jurisdictions. This is a prime example of how FAA ignorance of engineering and science drives the cost of products up and stifles incremental evolutionary improvements. Hence, the cost of our computers continue to go down while performance improves. Costs of airplane parts goes up while the engineers can only dream of what it would be like to really have command and control of their destinies. Bob . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:37 AM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marty" The way this is set up if the crew were listening to input from j1, the pax would not be able to listen to the xm input, a better solution would be to jumper the xm signal to imput terminals of both switches instead of carrying the output of one switch to the input of the second switch. Marty -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:30 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Nathan Ulrich wrote: > So, back to my original question. Any way to "split" the audio from the 396 > so it can feed both MUSIC 1 and MUSIC 2 without changing volume depending on > whether one or both is active? Here is what I did with my PMA-7000 which has the same set of dual music inputs, i.e. "front office" and pax. I installed separate jacks for the two inputs. I added a DPST switch to bridge the two inputs together. Switch on and both hear the same source. Switch off and I can put in different sources. Don't worry about the level going down when you tie the two inputs together. Their input impedance is pretty high compared to any signal source you will plug in. I doubt you will hear any level difference at all with them tied together. You can use a pair of DPDT switches to allow you to select between XM audio and external audio for each input. Imagine you have J1 and J2 (input jacks), and S1 and S2 (switches). J1 is the input for pilot and J2 is input for pax. S1 is selector for pilot and S2 is selector for pax. XM audio feeds one set of terminals for S1. J1 feeds other set of terminals for S1. Center terminals for S1 feeds pilot input to audio panel. J2 feeds one set of terminals for S2. Center terminals from S2 feeds pax input on audio panel. The remaining terminals for S2 connect back to the center terminals on S1. (I should make a schematic for this.) Here is your logic list: S1 position 1 -- pilot hears XM radio S1 position 2 -- pilot hears source from J1 S2 position 1 -- pax hear source from J2 S2 position 2 -- pax hear what pilot hears. Place J2 and S2 in the back seat. Now your pax can plug in their own source (walkman, diskman, iPod, etc.) and switch S2 and not bother the pilot. Good for kids who prefer Marky Mark to Frank Sinatra, or, worse still, pilot who is practicing scat solos. (I sing in a jazz ensemble and often practice while on long cross country flights. My kids definitely know what the "pilot isolate" switch does on the audio panel.) Hopefully this will solve your problem. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:48 AM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Garmin XM Receivers Aviation vs. Marine --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" Mike, first, I think you'd have a plumbing problem. Is the 30 the one that a small round hockey puck and goes with the 396? If so, then it's a usb device that uses a proprietary command interface. :( Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeEasley@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 7:53 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin XM Receivers Aviation vs. Marine --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com Garmin sells an XM weather receiver, GDL 69A, that will hook up to my MX20 for about $5,800 list. Garmin also makes an XM weather receiver for the marine market, GDL 30A, that has a street price of around $600. Any chance that a resourceful experimental pilot could get the marine unit to work with an MX20? Mike Easley ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:22 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Com Setting Off ELT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd MikeEasley@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > My friend with a Glasair IIFT has an interesting problem. The ELT goes off > when he transmits on his com radio, sometimes. It's very intermittent. > ... > > Any ideas? It is likely to be RF getting into the remote control interface that is the problem although I am surprised that it goes off with the remote disconnected. I would wind the remote control cable through toroid cores at both ends (remote and ELT) to see if that helps. But given that this is not a common complaint I would also consider that it might be a problem with the ELT itself. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:33 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Marty wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marty" > > > The way this is set up if the crew were listening to input from j1, the pax > would not be able to listen to the xm input, a better solution would be to > jumper the xm signal to imput terminals of both switches instead of carrying > the output of one switch to the input of the second switch. There are many things you can do and much complexity you can add. My thinking, based on experience with several combinations in different aircraft, was that most of the time everyone is going to want to listen to the same source and I am only going to want to plug it in one place. What you have suggested precludes plugging the iPod into the pilot's jack and then having that audio available to the pax. If you want complete control for the pax you can put in a DPTT switch to select XM, J1 (pilot input), or J2 (pax input). I don't want just one external music source as I can assure you from experience that there is almost nothing my kids listen to in the back seat that I want to listen to for more than about three minutes. But flexibility is good. Let's see if we can't come up with the optimum combination. We will almost certainly need to add a remote control for the XM radio. Then don't forget the remote control for the iPod. Don't forget the graphic equalizer so the pax can tailor their audio to their taste. And of course you would want a pitch-corrector and harmonizer (vocoder) for the pilot's audio so his singing would be on-key even if it is off-key. We can probably add a good MIDI keyboard for accompaniment. Oh shoot, how stupid of me. I forgot the espresso machine! How can one listen to music without a good two-shot, low-fat, mochachino latte?!? What was I THINKING! Has anybody seen my cup-warmer around here anywhere? -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:47 AM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Com Setting Off ELT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" I have discovered this exact same problem on a Mooney M20C that I fly. Doesn't happen all the time, but will occasionally. What we found was that the coax connector for the Comm antenna at the antenna, which happens to be back in the same area of the ELT, was bad. It might be the coax itself as well. Anyway, stray RF traveling thur the "ground system" will likely cause this. We swapped out the coax and connectors and the problem went away. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:58 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Com Setting Off ELT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd --> MikeEasley@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > My friend with a Glasair IIFT has an interesting problem. The ELT > goes off when he transmits on his com radio, sometimes. It's very intermittent. > ... > > Any ideas? It is likely to be RF getting into the remote control interface that is the problem although I am surprised that it goes off with the remote disconnected. I would wind the remote control cable through toroid cores at both ends (remote and ELT) to see if that helps. But given that this is not a common complaint I would also consider that it might be a problem with the ELT itself. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:33 AM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marty" Gee, Brian, didn't mean to push any buttons, just presenting an alternative. If you want full control, just put another dpdt between j1 and j2 set it up so it would either tie the two jacks together or isolate them from each other depending on switch position. And don't forget the placard stating "Hot beverages are served VERY hot." Just to c.y.a., you don't want any frivolous lawsuits from a scalded passenger. Marty -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Marty wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marty" > > > The way this is set up if the crew were listening to input from j1, the pax > would not be able to listen to the xm input, a better solution would be to > jumper the xm signal to imput terminals of both switches instead of carrying > the output of one switch to the input of the second switch. There are many things you can do and much complexity you can add. My thinking, based on experience with several combinations in different aircraft, was that most of the time everyone is going to want to listen to the same source and I am only going to want to plug it in one place. What you have suggested precludes plugging the iPod into the pilot's jack and then having that audio available to the pax. If you want complete control for the pax you can put in a DPTT switch to select XM, J1 (pilot input), or J2 (pax input). I don't want just one external music source as I can assure you from experience that there is almost nothing my kids listen to in the back seat that I want to listen to for more than about three minutes. But flexibility is good. Let's see if we can't come up with the optimum combination. We will almost certainly need to add a remote control for the XM radio. Then don't forget the remote control for the iPod. Don't forget the graphic equalizer so the pax can tailor their audio to their taste. And of course you would want a pitch-corrector and harmonizer (vocoder) for the pilot's audio so his singing would be on-key even if it is off-key. We can probably add a good MIDI keyboard for accompaniment. Oh shoot, how stupid of me. I forgot the espresso machine! How can one listen to music without a good two-shot, low-fat, mochachino latte?!? What was I THINKING! Has anybody seen my cup-warmer around here anywhere? -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: From: Dj Merrill --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill Brian Lloyd wrote: > > Has anybody seen my cup-warmer around here anywhere? > > It is just behind that large fan, but you might want to use a spill-proof cup! *wink* -Dj do not archive -- Dj Merrill Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/ "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:19 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cup warmer --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Dj Merrill wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill > > Brian Lloyd wrote: >> Has anybody seen my cup-warmer around here anywhere? >> >> > > It is just behind that large fan, but you might want to use a > spill-proof cup! *wink* Oh, you mean the two-door oven? Yeah, right after landing you can pop that sucker open and put a foil-wrapped hot lunch in there to cook. Works like a charm! Brian ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:19 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Marty wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marty" > > Gee, Brian, didn't mean to push any buttons, just presenting an alternative. Oh, I know. I should have added a smiley in there somewhere in the first part. > If you want full control, just put another dpdt between j1 and j2 set it up > so it would either tie the two jacks together or isolate them from each > other depending on switch position. DPST, but yes, that would work just fine. > And don't forget the placard stating "Hot beverages are served VERY hot." > Just to c.y.a., you don't want any frivolous lawsuits from a scalded > passenger. Good point. I can't believe I forgot that part. Brian ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:43 AM PST US From: "Reginald E. DeLoach" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cup warmer --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Reginald E. DeLoach" OR...you could wrap your meal in foil, wire (safety, of course) it to the exhaust manifold, and it'd be ready to eat upon arrival... :} Brian Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > Dj Merrill wrote: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill > > > > Brian Lloyd wrote: > >> Has anybody seen my cup-warmer around here anywhere? > >> > >> > > > > It is just behind that large fan, but you might want to use a > > spill-proof cup! *wink* > > Oh, you mean the two-door oven? Yeah, right after landing you can pop > that sucker open and put a foil-wrapped hot lunch in there to cook. > Works like a charm! > > Brian > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:54 AM PST US From: ZPO Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Com Setting Off ELT --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ZPO Mike, Have you tried a choke balun at the antenna end of the comm radio coax? If you have available cable slack you could try 6-10 turns around something roughly the diameter of a clenched fist (remove the form after winding). Alternatively, you could cut the antenna end connector off the coax, install about 50 ferrite beads over the end of the cable (FB73-2401 might a a good choice), and then sleeve the beads with heat shrink. Since coax is an unbalanced transmission line, connecting to a balanced antenna can readily put common mode RF currents on the feedline. As an experiment, you could gather up a number of the ferrite split-beads like are often delivered with computer monitors or other electronic devices. While not a good permanent solution, it may lower the level of common-mode signals enough to help indicate if you are on the right track. --Brian On 4/21/06, MikeEasley@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeEasley@aol.com > > My friend with a Glasair IIFT has an interesting problem. The ELT goes off > when he transmits on his com radio, sometimes. It's very intermittent. We > talked to the guys at ACK and they recommended moving the ELT farther from the > com antenna cable (RG58). It's seems to be far enough away from the com > antenna, about 5 feet. We took the ELT out of its mounting bracket and moved it > closer to the antenna wire, nothing; closer to the panel, nothing; closer to > the antenna, nothing. We got it to go off with the remote wiring to the > panel disconnected and the antenna disconnected, once, just the ELT box in my > hand. We must be getting some leakage from the com that's activating some > small electronic device in the ELT. Or could it be some buildup of static. The > light that's on the panel that flashes when the ELT is activated flickers > sometimes when the com is transmitting, sometimes. > > Any ideas? > > Mike Easley > Colorado Springs ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:55 PM PST US From: "Doug Baleshta" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KY 196 voltage --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Doug Baleshta" I have a King KY 196 from another project (28v) and was hoping to use it in my 12 volt project. Is it at all possible to convert this w/o an inverter, 2 batteries etc? Searched the list and couldn't find anything. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Doug Lancair 360 - 50% ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:05 PM PST US From: guy fulton Subject: AeroElectric-List:Remote switchs ky97 radio --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: guy fulton With a little help, I wired the radio, and it appears to function properly. However I am faced with the task of wiring remote switches. Instructions indicate the 3 remote switches 1 for scrolling through the frequencies, 1 for flip/flop and 1 push to talk. Push to talk, power, light were simple, being common connections, but instructions for wiring the remote frequency change switches were somewhat inadequate. Any information or instruction would be greatly appreciated. thanks guy